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440 IS IN!... PICS JUNE 4th

Started by PocketThunder, February 22, 2006, 02:25:27 PM

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PocketThunder

I am nearing the engine build process of my resto and i need to size up a cam for my 440.  I read in another post where firefighter said you need to take into consideration the rear end gearing.  In my 68 i have the 8-3\4 with i think 2:93 gears.  My parts car has the same one.  I dont want to spend the $1000 to buy a 3:23 or 3:55 sure grip gear set right now, so i thought i could just swap the Dana in my 500 into the 68 for the time being.  The 500 wont see the road for at least 2 years.  then i can switch them back.

So, I have not checked the gearing in my Dana yet, and while i'm at work pondering what to do, i thought i'd ask to see if they all came with 4:11's or what? 


Paul
in St. Paul
"Liberalism is a disease that attacks one's ability to understand logic. Extreme manifestations include the willingness to continue down a path of self destruction, based solely on a delusional belief in a failed ideology."

694spdRT

The Dana 60 rear only came standard in the 4 speed R/T's and 500's. The Dana's standard gearing was 3.54 and the 4.10's were optional.  If your Charger 500 is an automatic it would have came standard with an 8 3/4" rearend unless optioned out with a Dana. Do you have your fender tag as that may tell what the Dana option in your car would be?
1968 Charger 383 auto
1969 Charger R/T 440 4 speed
1970 Charger 500 440 auto
1972 Challenger 318
1976 W200 Club Cab 4x4 400 auto 
1978 Ramcharger 360 auto
2001 Durango SLT 4.7L (daily driver)
2005 Ram 2500 4x4 Big Horn Cummins Diesel 6 speed
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited 5.7 Hemi

phat69charger

Hey, Paul

Take a look at this thread, I posted information about a gearing calculator that I used to figure out my gearing   http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,9491.msg118174.html#msg118174

BigBlockSam

I won't be wronged, I wont be Insulted and I wont be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to others, and I require the same from them.

  [IMG]http://i45.tinypic.com/347b5v5.jpg[/img

PocketThunder

Quote from: 694spdRT on February 22, 2006, 02:40:42 PM
The Dana 60 rear only came standard in the 4 speed R/T's and 500's. The Dana's standard gearing was 3.54 and the 4.10's were optional.  If your Charger 500 is an automatic it would have came standard with an 8 3/4" rearend unless optioned out with a Dana. Do you have your fender tag as that may tell what the Dana option in your car would be?

Yes, the 500 was originally an automatic, 8-3/4 car, Leudtke put in the Dana because he was gonna make a Daytona clone out of it.  So there is no code on the fender tag............. Ok, I just went and crawled under the 500 and the tag reads:

46-13
3:54

So i guess i have a 3:54 Dana to use if i feel the need to swap out the 8-3/4 with high gears.   The 8-3/4 reads 2070741.  what gear ratio did this car have then?  It was a 318 auto car originally...

Paul
"Liberalism is a disease that attacks one's ability to understand logic. Extreme manifestations include the willingness to continue down a path of self destruction, based solely on a delusional belief in a failed ideology."

PocketThunder


Now onto my second question about building the 440.

What size cam do i want to run?  I have a Holley carb for the 440 that i think is a 650, but i need to confirm, its at my Dads place right now in storage.  I'm relatively green when it comes to specing out a build.  I've read a ton of threads about building 440s and it seems there are a hundred ways to do it.   :ahum:

My engine guys are gonna bore the block 30 over, and give the heads a valve job.  I asked them about how much torque can i expect it to make and they said thats all up to me to decide.   :shruggy:

My plan for the car is to drive it almost every day in the summer.  I drive 20 miles each way for my commute (15 highway/5 city), and i'll put a lot of highway miles on it going to the in-laws cabin on the weekends.  So, maybe i want to keep the high gear 8-3/4 rear in the car and build the block accordingly...  My 89 W250 gets about 14 mpg in the summer so if i can get at least that i wont be hurting my gas budget at all. ;D

What do you guys think?

thanks,

Paul
in St. Paul
"Liberalism is a disease that attacks one's ability to understand logic. Extreme manifestations include the willingness to continue down a path of self destruction, based solely on a delusional belief in a failed ideology."

BigBlockSam

howdy
  650 holley, way to small for a strong 440. 750 min. .
I won't be wronged, I wont be Insulted and I wont be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to others, and I require the same from them.

  [IMG]http://i45.tinypic.com/347b5v5.jpg[/img

Chryco Psycho


694spdRT

If you want to stay with the 2.93 gearing for highway driving you should keep the camshaft down on the duration. I would say something like an Engle K54 or K56 would be good. Try to keep you compression at no more than 9.5 to 1 for pump gas. This will depend on the combustion chamber size, head gasket thickness, and how far below deck the pistons are. I am sure Chryco or Firefighter will help you out more on that stuff. A dual plane intake would probably be best with those gears to help on the low end too.

A 3.23 gear would help a little more on out of the hole and rpm on the highway will probably be in the 2500rpm range at 60mph depending on the height of your tire. The 2.93's should put you somewhere in the 21-2200 rpm range. I had 2.71's in the '68 before and it ran 1800rpm at 60mph with a 14" tire. I averaged 17mpg with a 383 and Holley 750 on the highway with it.

Edit: Chryco beat me to it.
1968 Charger 383 auto
1969 Charger R/T 440 4 speed
1970 Charger 500 440 auto
1972 Challenger 318
1976 W200 Club Cab 4x4 400 auto 
1978 Ramcharger 360 auto
2001 Durango SLT 4.7L (daily driver)
2005 Ram 2500 4x4 Big Horn Cummins Diesel 6 speed
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited 5.7 Hemi

Just 6T9 CHGR

Chris' '69 Charger R/T


firefighter3931

I'll agree with the rest....a k56 should be a nice match for 3.54 gears. A 2200-2500 stall would also be benificial.  ;)

Ron
68 Charger R/T "Black Pig" Street/Strip bruiser, 70 Charger R/T 440-6bbl Cruiser. Firecore ignition  authorized dealer ; contact me with your needs

PocketThunder

Quote from: firefighter3931 on February 23, 2006, 09:04:36 AM
I'll agree with the rest....a k56 should be a nice match for 3.54 gears. A 2200-2500 stall would also be benificial.  ;)

Ron

Hi Ron,

Will the k56 also be a nice match with the 2.92 gears?
"Liberalism is a disease that attacks one's ability to understand logic. Extreme manifestations include the willingness to continue down a path of self destruction, based solely on a delusional belief in a failed ideology."

firefighter3931

Quote from: PocketThunder on February 23, 2006, 09:20:36 AM
Quote from: firefighter3931 on February 23, 2006, 09:04:36 AM
I'll agree with the rest....a k56 should be a nice match for 3.54 gears. A 2200-2500 stall would also be benificial.  ;)

Ron

Hi Ron,

Will the k56 also be a nice match with the 2.92 gears?

Hi Paul,

The k56 will work ok with the taller gears but it's not the "ideal" cam for that combo. Another factor is tire diameter. For example ; if you're planning on a 28in rear tire (275/60/15) you'll be taking some ratio out of the final drive.

2.94 + 28in = 2.73
3.54 + 28in = 3.28

So as you can see, tire diameter has a significant impact. Basicly, you need enough gear to get the engine into it's "sweet spot" as soon as possible. High gearing (low numerically) + too big of a cam = sluggish performance.

Ron
68 Charger R/T "Black Pig" Street/Strip bruiser, 70 Charger R/T 440-6bbl Cruiser. Firecore ignition  authorized dealer ; contact me with your needs

PocketThunder

My engine was finished this week so i picked it up on Saturday morning on the way to my Dads shop and got to work assembling it.  It took me most of the day to get it together, primed and painted.  I shot it with 2 light coats of epoxy primer and then two coats of Nason paint from the DuPont store.  It turned out awesome!
"Liberalism is a disease that attacks one's ability to understand logic. Extreme manifestations include the willingness to continue down a path of self destruction, based solely on a delusional belief in a failed ideology."

PocketThunder

1st pic:  Lets see  :scratchchin:  how the hell did this K-frame go back together..... :icon_smile_big:

2nd pic: all ready to go!  in two weeks i'll bring the 68 from my garage in the city to my Dads shop, put it on the hoist, roll the engine underneath and bolt it up. 
"Liberalism is a disease that attacks one's ability to understand logic. Extreme manifestations include the willingness to continue down a path of self destruction, based solely on a delusional belief in a failed ideology."

Silver R/T

http://www.cardomain.com/id/mitmaks

1968 silver/black/red striped R/T
My Charger is hybrid, it runs on gas and on tears of ricers
2001 Ram 2500 CTD
1993 Mazda MX-3 GS SE
1995 Ford Cobra SVT#2722

Chryco Psycho


PocketThunder

Took the 68 down to my Dads shop this weekend and we got the 440 in.  We went in from underneath and it was kind of neat to try it this way.  Although i had to finish the suspension first, it took me 5 f-ing hours to get the rusty upper control arms out of the car and get old bushings out and the new ones in.

Anyways, as always, some pics for your viewing pleasure.

Paul
in St. Paul
"Liberalism is a disease that attacks one's ability to understand logic. Extreme manifestations include the willingness to continue down a path of self destruction, based solely on a delusional belief in a failed ideology."

PocketThunder

 ;)
"Liberalism is a disease that attacks one's ability to understand logic. Extreme manifestations include the willingness to continue down a path of self destruction, based solely on a delusional belief in a failed ideology."

Silver R/T

http://www.cardomain.com/id/mitmaks

1968 silver/black/red striped R/T
My Charger is hybrid, it runs on gas and on tears of ricers
2001 Ram 2500 CTD
1993 Mazda MX-3 GS SE
1995 Ford Cobra SVT#2722


Just 6T9 CHGR

Nice to have the proper work environment/tools to do a job like a gentleman.

Great work Paul   keep it up bud :cheers:
Chris' '69 Charger R/T


BigBlockSam

I won't be wronged, I wont be Insulted and I wont be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to others, and I require the same from them.

  [IMG]http://i45.tinypic.com/347b5v5.jpg[/img

mikepmcs

that's friggin' awesome!!!
i specially like the cigar in the mouth pic, reminds me of the old days at fairfax chrysler ripping off exhaust smoking a cig, man i miss that crap!!

:popcrn: :drool5:
Life isn't Father Knows Best anymore, it's a kick in the face on a saturday night with a steel toed grip kodiak work boot and a trip to the hospital all bloodied and bashed.....for reconstructive surgery. But, what doesn't kill us, makes us stronger, right?

General_01

That is cool Paul. Is that your Dad with the cigar? Car is looking good. Every day is a step closer to driving that baby. ;D
1971 Dodge Charger Super Bee
496 stroker
4-speed

PocketThunder

Quote from: mikepmcs on May 07, 2006, 05:24:34 PM
that's friggin' awesome!!!
i specially like the cigar in the mouth pic, reminds me of the old days at fairfax chrysler ripping off exhaust smoking a cig, man i miss that crap!!

:popcrn: :drool5:
thanks, thats my pops. we are trying to get him to quit but you know how it goes.   i'm the guy in the green shirt.
"Liberalism is a disease that attacks one's ability to understand logic. Extreme manifestations include the willingness to continue down a path of self destruction, based solely on a delusional belief in a failed ideology."

firefighter3931

68 Charger R/T "Black Pig" Street/Strip bruiser, 70 Charger R/T 440-6bbl Cruiser. Firecore ignition  authorized dealer ; contact me with your needs

694spdRT

Your doing great Paul.   :2thumbs:

I am still waiting for a visit when you are done.  :yesnod:
1968 Charger 383 auto
1969 Charger R/T 440 4 speed
1970 Charger 500 440 auto
1972 Challenger 318
1976 W200 Club Cab 4x4 400 auto 
1978 Ramcharger 360 auto
2001 Durango SLT 4.7L (daily driver)
2005 Ram 2500 4x4 Big Horn Cummins Diesel 6 speed
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited 5.7 Hemi

hemigeno

Paul,

That looks fantastic!  Keep us posted on how things are going, and I'm sure that you've got the proper motivation right now to finish 'er up!

:boogie:

tan top

Feel free to post any relevant picture you think we all might like to see in the threads below!

Charger Stuff 
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,86777.0.html
Chargers in the background where you least expect them 
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,97261.0.html
C500 & Daytonas & Superbirds
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,95432.0.html
Interesting pictures & Stuff 
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,109484.925.html
Old Dodge dealer photos wanted
 http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,120850.0.html

PocketThunder

thanks!

i am tracking down a couple pulleys that i need and some mics parts for the 20th when i go back and then its  :drive:

Here is the overall picture that i have going in the Wheels and Tires section:

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,4946.msg152232.html#msg152232
"Liberalism is a disease that attacks one's ability to understand logic. Extreme manifestations include the willingness to continue down a path of self destruction, based solely on a delusional belief in a failed ideology."

PocketThunder

Got the exhaust fabbed up yesterday.  Just a couple 10' sticks of pipe, a bender, and some raptor mufflers will do the trick for now.  total cost $50.  and i borrowed a pipe bender from a friend at work.  once i save up for HP manifolds i can order those and the accurate system.

New driveshaft is in also.  Man i'm getting so close to starting this thing!

Paul
in St. Paul
"Liberalism is a disease that attacks one's ability to understand logic. Extreme manifestations include the willingness to continue down a path of self destruction, based solely on a delusional belief in a failed ideology."

tan top

 looking good :thumbs: buy the looks of it , not long now ,till you crank the motor  ;D
Feel free to post any relevant picture you think we all might like to see in the threads below!

Charger Stuff 
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,86777.0.html
Chargers in the background where you least expect them 
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,97261.0.html
C500 & Daytonas & Superbirds
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,95432.0.html
Interesting pictures & Stuff 
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,109484.925.html
Old Dodge dealer photos wanted
 http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,120850.0.html

694spdRT

Congratulations Paul!

I looks like you are going to get that thing on the road after all.  ;D :drive:
1968 Charger 383 auto
1969 Charger R/T 440 4 speed
1970 Charger 500 440 auto
1972 Challenger 318
1976 W200 Club Cab 4x4 400 auto 
1978 Ramcharger 360 auto
2001 Durango SLT 4.7L (daily driver)
2005 Ram 2500 4x4 Big Horn Cummins Diesel 6 speed
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited 5.7 Hemi

General_01

Can't wait to see the car when you get it home.

By the way, I am jealous that you have a lift to work on your car with. :icon_smile_wink:
1971 Dodge Charger Super Bee
496 stroker
4-speed

Silver R/T

front end looks raised like mine, are you going to lower it?
http://www.cardomain.com/id/mitmaks

1968 silver/black/red striped R/T
My Charger is hybrid, it runs on gas and on tears of ricers
2001 Ram 2500 CTD
1993 Mazda MX-3 GS SE
1995 Ford Cobra SVT#2722

B5 Charger

Looking good.  I wish mine were that far along.   :'(

PocketThunder

Quote from: Silver R/T on June 04, 2006, 10:40:50 PM
front end looks raised like mine, are you going to lower it?

Yes i need to lower it, i have it up higher than it should be right now.  I'm trying to get the 10" wide tires to fit in the front and its not working.  I'm gonna need to buy smaller tires i think.  and i'll end up with an extra set for the rear..
"Liberalism is a disease that attacks one's ability to understand logic. Extreme manifestations include the willingness to continue down a path of self destruction, based solely on a delusional belief in a failed ideology."

Wakko

Ian

'69 Basketcase, bluetooth powered

Boynton 236 F&AM

Goldfinger71

Now that's what im talking bout'!.........Looks good! :yesnod:......are u getting excited yet!? :icon_smile_cool:
1971 Charger R/T   GY9 Dark Gold Metallic, V1Y Gold Top, GY4 Light Gold Interior- A/C, Rimblow, PW, Front Disc, AM-FM, Tach, Light Package, Slotted Tips, Trailer Tow Package(MIA)and a few other odds and ends...including a luggage rack!

68chargerboy

hey that looks awsome.  i was wondering if you cold send me a message stating what you used on the lower control arms to make them look original like you did.  thanks


                                 Zach