Starter wiring issue?

[EccentricMagpies]

When I turn the key,  I'm getting only a single tick, where the starter simply won't engage.  Battery is strong and cleaned the posts, not that they seemed to be an issue

I pulled the starter and with it hanging connected the negative and the starter worked fine
So I reinstall the starter and same thing. Tick

I take the starter to town, tell them the story and he puts the starter on his test bench. No problems with the starter

Is it possible to have bad wires to the starter?   I should post a picture of the wires.  I'll do that.


Also a strange thing that happened when I was pulling the negitive cable. The wrench touched the side of the radiator and a spark arced.  I had to stop to double check since there are two red cables on the battery but I was unable to force another spark.  Might be that I somehow did something weird so maybe. Unrelated.

[A383Wing]

sounds like a bad starter relay on firewall

Bryan

[John_Kunkel]

Use a screwdriver blade to jump across the two threaded terminals on the starter relay (be sure the shifter is in Park), if the starter turns over the wiring is good.

Then have somebody turn the key to Start while you hold the starter relay...if you can feel the relay click but the starter doesn't run, the relay is bad. If the relay doesn't click, the yellow wire has no power in Start (check with a meter or test light) or the NSS terminal isn't getting a ground in Park.

[EccentricMagpies]

Well, it wasn't the relay switch.  Figured the starter was only 2 years old so hoped it was the relay.   So, I suppose I'll have to pull that thing for the 3rd time.

[EccentricMagpies]

Wait...  I'm making a bad assumption ... Again. I have already taken the starter in and they told me that there was absolutely nothing wrong with it.  It has acted like this before and somehow 'starts working' by checking the wires to it.  Nothing seems loose

[FC7 V code]

I'm having pretty much the same problem with my 70. Power to the starter and the relay box but every now and then just nothing when you turn the key. We cleaned the neutral safety switch plug in at the tranny and so far it seems to be working...only been a couple days though so its probably to soon to tell if we really corrected the problem. I changed out the relay box to start with and it worked a couple of times and then failed again, so I'm pretty sure the relay box isn't the issue.

[EccentricMagpies]

Is it possible that the bolts have come loose enough on the flywheel causing periodic 'hangups'?

I.e. so... the starter works fine when not installed but only a click when installed.  So the click I'm hearing is the starters inability to turn the flywheel due to some jam?

The reason I wondered this was because of the driveshaft I had to replace last year.  It was unaligned and caused other bolts to loosen such as bellhousing bolts.

It will be several days before I can try but I think I'll turn the balancer backwards and then check the flywheel for any wobble??  Can't hurt I suspect

[FLG]

The click you hear is most likely the relay.

Have you tried removing and cleaning your battery connections? Have you tried jumping the relay as per John?

A bad battery connection will cause the same symptoms.

[cdr]

sounds like the starter is bad,they can have intermittent problems,when it acts up get someone to try & start it & tap starter with a hammer,if it starts you know whats wrong.

charlie

[John_Kunkel]

There is a situation where one of the commutator bars on the starter's armature will have a weak connection, if the armature comes to rest with a brush on that bar the starter motor won't run. Next time it's a different bar and it works OK  .

[EccentricMagpies]

The part I don't understand is....
I pulled it and tried it, worked fine

I took it into tow and be put it on a test bench and it worked fine 10x

So... It is just coincidence that the thing just happens to fail when mounted?

When I said I had bolts coming loose, I mean one day the starter was laying on my headers. Another day a bolt loosened up to stop at the oil filter, only to wear a small hole in it, thankfully to drip oil onto the headers to give it away

So, I'll let you know what I find out

[A383Wing]

dirty battery cable connections can cause this as previously stated, any bad connection can do this.

[EccentricMagpies]

Battery cables were checked ( on the posts). Course if there was something wrong in the general cable itself.  Well that would be tough to tell.   I'd think but can keep it in mind

[EccentricMagpies]

To test the cable.  Can I run the charger directly to the starter.  Seems back in the day I put the charger, battery charger that is, directly to the starter itself just to eliminate any cable issues

[1974dodgecharger]

sounds like the starter is bad,they can have intermittent problems,when it acts up get someone to try & start it & tap starter with a hammer,if it starts you know whats wrong.

charlie

happened to me at work came out and no go, but had lights and volts were good.  Went home and brought back a hammer to my work and banged it a couple times and viola she started....man that was a stressful day, but with help with forum members I got it started.

[1974dodgecharger]

My starter was fine also I mean as in when put on test bench she would start, but she lacked torque to do much. So I bet when the starter hits the wheel on the teeth it has to have more torque to spin it, but does not. 

The part I don't understand is....
I pulled it and tried it, worked fine

I took it into tow and be put it on a test bench and it worked fine 10x

So... It is just coincidence that the thing just happens to fail when mounted?

When I said I had bolts coming loose, I mean one day the starter was laying on my headers. Another day a bolt loosened up to stop at the oil filter, only to wear a small hole in it, thankfully to drip oil onto the headers to give it away

So, I'll let you know what I find out

[K9COP]

Sheesh, aren't you going through the mill? 

A direct 12V to the starter terminals should spin it, and quite violently if I recall, meaning that yes, it should have a whole sh1t load of torque. maybe some thread lock when you get the problem sorted and a final starter install. Or lock nuts.... 

CS

[Needa68]

Check for 12 volts on Pin I of the starter relay when the ignition switch is turned to the start position. Wire S2-18-GY runs from pin I of the starter relay to pin T on the bulkhead connector and from there to the ignition switch. It provides 12 volts to the starter relay when the ignition switch is turned to engage the starter. If the connection at the disconnect is loose or needs to be burnished the starter relay (and starter) will operate intermittently.

I hope this helps!

[K9COP]

Great advice and detail from Needa68.... wanna buy my '68 out of the Cayman Islands? Need to move it fast...

CS

[EccentricMagpies]

well, it wasn't the starter relay and I finally got time to swap in a new starter.  Not the issue either.


Getting some great practice at pulling the starter in and out though.

[Dmichels]

Try jumping the starter solenoid directly when installed. The trigger wire from the relay could be bad. If it does not work you could have a bad battery cable. 12 volt system can be funny, all works well until you pull  a high amp draw. Go threw the system slowly you will figure it out
Dave

[EccentricMagpies]

Try jumping the starter solenoid directly when installed. The trigger wire from the relay could be bad. If it does not work you could have a bad battery cable. 12 volt system can be funny, all works well until you pull  a high amp draw. Go threw the system slowly you will figure it out
Dave

Okay.... yeah, I think I was asking if that was possible earlier.  I'll try that next.  Thanks.

[billssuperbird]

My car is doing the same thing 

[EccentricMagpies]

Just thought I'd mention what I kind of discovered.

It seems I need to remove and inspect the cable that runs to the starter.  The only way I was able to start the car was by attempting to move the wires apart that connect at the starter.  There must be a short crossing the wires.

I messed with it minimally and got the car started.  I never came back to the car until this weekend when I wanted to put it into storage and it wouldn't start but by "adjusting" the wires again it started.

So, over this winter I'll remove the cables and see WTH is going on with them.

Thanks for all of the comments from everyone here.  Sorry I wasn't able to focus on this better but a lot of things going on this summer.

[Dmichels]

If you think you have a funny starter wire pull the ground wire off the battery so you do not have another problem (fire)
Dave

[EccentricMagpies]

Hmmm. Funny you bring that up!

The one smaller ground wire had noticeable melting going on.   I believe it happened that day as well

[Dino]

Hmmm. Funny you bring that up!

The one smaller ground wire had noticeable melting going on.   I believe it happened that day as well

That's a common issue, mine didn't look too good either when I pulled them a few weeks ago.  Run a temporary 10 or 12 awg wire from the small terminal on the starter relay to the small post on the starter and try again.  If it starts then make it permanent.  They sell high temp insulation for wiring close to headers and such.  Put that stuff on each wire and then cover both in a bigger sleeve.  Take it up as high as the inner fender bracket at least to be safe.