Alternator Question (not charging the battery):

[Captain D]

Hello all,

First off, I should state that mine is a 69' Base Charger, 383 4rrl BB, non-A/C car using a 60 amp alternator(s). Basically, this is the 3rd alternator we've tried so far. The first two were from Summit Racing. The first Summit alternator wasn't re-charging the battery at all - thinking that it was defective, we exchanged it for another one with the same part number. The second one arrived from Summit and it registered too high amount of voltage to the battery (multimeter registered in the 15.1 to 15.8V range). While driving to my buddy's shop, the ammeter was bouncing all over the place. I'm assuming that since the second alternator from Summit was cranking out, perhaps, a little higher amps/volts to the battery, it tried to compensate for that lack of power somewhere on the car where the original problem exists...? After seeing the 15V range on the meter, however, we swapped out yet another alternator on the car today (from Advanced Auto) and it too wasn't charging the battery.

The one from Advance was my back-up and when I had it installed on the car several weeks ago, I had it tested twice with good numbers (in the 14V range) and it performed rather well. So, needless to say, I was more than a little surprised to see that my good 'back-up' alternator was not charging (re-charging) the battery, as well. All what is new under the hood includes: New Interstate battery, new voltage regulator for electronic ignition, coil, starter relay, bulkhead connectors cleaned, tune-up plugs & wires, electronic ignition, all with good grounds, etc.

I was able to drive the car home from a friend's shop, but the car was clearly running off the battery as its power source. I was told that it could run up to two hours off the battery, but I don't want to go too far from home to another shop. Any ideas what it could be and any tests that I could run at home myself before I have to take it somewhere altogether? I do have a spare electronic regulator. Worthwhile to swap it out? If so, what number should the regulator read at?  

Here was the alternator from Summit that I recently removed:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-812107

'Thank you' for any and all replies,
Aaron

[resq302]

Aaron,

What makes you think it is not charging the battery?  Are you getting below 13 volts at the battery with the engine running?

[Captain D]

Hi Brian,

Thank you for your reply. With having gone through a variety of alternators by this point, lol, we've noticed that whenever we put the car in gear (mostly reverse), the ammeter dips down to the - 20 region. Then, we'll do a test by removing the positive terminal on the battery and, within seconds, the car shuts itself off.

I did some searches and I read some material that stated an alternator that is too strong, (either with the amps/volts) it can exhaust the voltage regulator to the point that it fails - even in a brief amount of time. As a result, it will not allow the alternator to charge (re-charge) the battery properly. We knew that our back-up alternator functioned very well prior to putting on the chrome one from Summit., so with it being back on the car now - I thought that maybe I would put a new elect. regulator on to see if things can go back to normal as they were before the Summit alternator 'possibility' toasted our regulator,  .

Also, we tested the battery when the car was running and the multimeter registered a solid 12.6 volts. That was part of the reason why I felt that the battery wasn't being charged properly. The only thing that I can come up with at this point was that, since the Summit alternator was cranking out close to 16 volts, a toasted regulator could be the problem. But, I'll make the swap tomorrow and see what happens. I just hope that it didn't mess up my new battery too...

Just didn't know if anyone had any similar experiences or if I am off-track altogether...
Aaron

 

[Charger_Fan]

Alternators usually crank out near 14 volts at a given RPM (normally in the 13.5 range), it's the responsibility of the regulator to reign in the extra voltage & keep the charging system in check.
One small question, is your regulator getting a good ground to your firewall?
Reading your post, it sounds like your regulator may not be functioning properly.
Run a good ground wire from one of your regulator mounting bolts to a wiper motor mounting bolt, that may cure this problem.
From this pic, you can barely make out my grounding fix from what...132 years ago? Okay, maybe it was nearer to 1990, but still. Pardon my dirty engine bay.

The yellow 12 gauge (overkill) crimp connectors with black wire between was my "FIX" that day. Today I'd go more subtle with this fix. Gee, I see I even left a loop in the wire in case I needed extra slack one day to move it to where?? Whatever I was thinking that day, I'm sure it made sense at the time.

[Captain D]

Thank you for the reply. As for grounds, everything is good with very nice clean contacts plus I swapped out the electronic voltage regulator today with a new one. However, everything still seems to be about the same in that there is no charge of the battery. Just as it was yesterday; in the -20 region.

I had the car running for about 5 minutes today after I made the swap, but I'm thinking that perhaps it wasn't enough time to allow the alternator to recharge the battery seeing how I drove it home from the shop for about 30 minutes with the power source running off the battery. I wonder how long it takes an alternator, on average, to recharge a battery in this circumstance? Yesterday the multimeter read a solid 12.6 and today a solid 12.4 while the engine was running. I'll look into getting the battery fully charged and see if it makes any difference/change in the readings...    

[charger Downunder]

Put the battery on a charger to charge it not in a charger.

[flyinlow]

  Always best to slow charge the battery in your garage with a small battery charger, then with the alternator.

Sounds like a regulator problem or wiring. The isolated field (1970 &up) alternator has two wires for the field in the alternator. One provides system voltage to the field . the other returns the field current to the regulator where it varies the amount of current it lets go to ground, keeping the alternator voltage where it should be. For the regulator to do this it needs a source of system voltage which it gets thru the blue wire and a good ground to the chassie. It also needs good wires and clean terminal connections.  Could be the regulator.

[Captain D]

Hey all,

Thank you for the reply and good info on charging the battery, I'll definitely remember those tips,  .

On the topic of the battery - I was about to pick up a charger for the battery to do just what you guys suggested, and since I had some extra time today, I decided to simply take the battery with me to get tested. Since the Summit alternator was pushing into the 15V range, I was also curious to see if any damage had been done to the battery.   But. they came back with excellent readings and stated that there was no need to charge it as it was good to go (12.66V). Thinking too that there could be a wire(s) with an exposed area, I spent about two hours combing through all of the wires with a good flashlight (and electrical tape in hand), but everything seems to be very clean with no bare spots nor burn marks that needed attention as far as I could tell. I did make an appointment with a shop this Monday. So, if I can't find the culprit then I'll let them hook it up to a machine and see if something becomes evident that I wasn't able to find with the naked eye on any of the wires.

With all that being said (solid grounds, terminals, battery, bulkheads, and new electronic regulator installed), the only thing left for me to do at this point may be to possibly look into yet another alternator as my 'back-up' could have been faulty to begin with - even though it registered fine just 2 or 3 weeks ago  . Especially since if the engine is running and I'm only getting 12V (rather than in the 13V to 14V range), I don't know what else to look into other than a new alternator altogether. Anyone here ever use the name-brand, 'Tough-One,'  before just out of curiosity? Although I certainly realize it may not be needed at this point, I can always slowly charge the battery over time to see if it happens to make any difference with this current alternator as discussed already...?

Thank you again for the tips/suggestions,
Aaron

     

[myk]

Highly improbable that all three of those alternators are the problem here.  Besides, as others have said it's the regulator's job to decide how much voltage runs through the system.  Is that 2nd regulator new?  Sounds like it's used and it could be shot as well.  Also, I'd get those 'alts checked out; any parts store should be able to tell you if they're good or not...

[Pete in NH]

Hi Aaron,

Sounds like the alternator system in your Charger is still giving you a tough time as it was several weeks back.

I would suggest you still buy yourself a small battery charger in the 4 to 6 amp range and recharge your battery. Just measuring the battery terminal voltage is not a good indicator of the battery charge state unless it is almost completely discharged. A small battery charger is a very useful thing to have around and you can use it to keep your battery up during the winter months when the car is not driven often.

If you're measuring 12.4 to 12.6 volts across the battery with the engine running the battery is not being charged the voltage should be 13.8 to 14.4 volts. The Summit Alternator you referenced is a standard Chrysler two field wire unit and should be used with the Chrysler electronic regulator shown in Charger_Fan's post. Is this the regulator you have on your car? If so, this is a fairly simple system and rather than keep changing alternators and regulators some simple trouble shooting steps should lead to a solution to your problem. Let me know what regulator is on the car and I'll be happy to walk you though those steps. Your 69 did not come from the factory with a two field wire alternator so at some point it was upgraded.

[flyinlow]

 
Do you have a second voltmeter? compare them. If not, can you use your voltmeter to check a modern car's voltage. Roughly 12.2 -12.6 V engine off  14.0-14.8 running.

My sons '70 Charger idles at 13.4v , at 2500rpm 14.4v . 60 amp alternator and the ignition system was the only load besides charging the battery.


A 2 amp/ 10amp battery charger handles most jobs. Might look for a charger that can handle glass matt batteries if you ever want to use  a newer style battery like an Optima.

[Captain D]

Hello all and I appreciate the time in offering your input,  

Hi Pete, yes, we were about to install the regulator as pictured in Charger_Fan's post (when I initially began to have a charging problem), but everything seems to function perfectly fine there for several weeks. At the time, I had this regulator below and I was a little weary about moving anything around since things were good:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181167146052?item=181167146052&viewitem=&vxp=mtr

I've read some good reviews on this regulator, and, since mine was already fitted to accommodate that set-up (plus, everything was working great with the alternator) I simply kept everything as is. Its just odd that by merely swapping out from a higher voltage alternator (15V) back to 14V would throw everything out of whack. I was hesitant to post this problem here yet again on account that I hate to waste everyone's time that could be spent helping someone else out. I suppose, I should just get the regulator as we discussed a few weeks back and call it done (hopefully),  .

Thank you again for your time,
Aaron

[flyinlow]

Guess I'm a little confused. You have a '69 (old regulator). The picture shows a newer style electronic regulator. I assume it was updated?

I think the regulator on ebay is an electronic replacement for the old mechanical regulator. Don't think it will work with out rewiring or changing to an old style alternator. 

[charger Downunder]

Guess I'm a little confused. You have a '69 (old regulator). The picture shows a newer style electronic regulator. I assume it was updated?

I think the regulator on ebay is an electronic replacement for the old mechanical regulator. Don't think it will work with out rewiring or changing to an old style alternator. 

The engine bay pic is the regulator he needs to buy for the two field alt

[y3chargerrt]

The E bay regulator will replace the old mechanical regulators without any wiring modifications.

[myk]

I've read some good reviews on this regulator, and, since mine was already fitted to accommodate that set-up (plus, everything was working great with the alternator) I simply kept everything as is. Its just odd that by merely swapping out from a higher voltage alternator (15V) back to 14V would throw everything out of whack. I was hesitant to post this problem here yet again on account that I hate to waste everyone's time that could be spent helping someone else out. I suppose, I should just get the regulator as we discussed a few weeks back and call it done (hopefully),  .

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but keep in mind that in setups like yours, where the 'alt is externally regulated, it doesn't matter what the advertised rating of the 'alt is because the voltage regulator is supposed to decide how many volts the 'alt will provide; doesn't matter if it's a stock 40 amp or a 130 amp aftermarket piece like in my car, the voltage should be the same. Now, as for having 15 volts run through the system, I'm not surpised if parts were damaged, especially if your car still has electrical pieces that are over 40 years old; there's no way those old parts could handle 15 volts and I'm sure there are new components that aren't designed to handle that many volts either...

[Pete in NH]

Hi Aaron,

I thought you might be still running that E bay regulator as you were when we last discussed this issue. For that regulator to work properly one of the field terminals must be connected to a good ground, the other field terminal connects to the regulator. To check this type of system put your voltmeter across the battery,start the engine and then briefly connect the two wires at the regulator together after unplugging them from the regulator. If the voltage goes up above 16 volts the alternator is good and the problem is a bad regulator. If the voltage across the battery does not go up the problem is a bad alternator or the wiring to the regulator.

The blue wire connected to the ING. terminal of the regulator should have battery voltage on it when the ignition switch is in the run position. The other regulator terminal, the one that goes to the alternator will have something less than battery voltage on it when the engine is running.

For my money I would change the system over to the Chrysler electronic regulator and be done with it. So much of this E bay stuff is cheap Chinese junk that works for a while and then self destructs. I would look at Chrysler P/N 4529794 for a good Mopar regulator that was meant to work with your alternator. Looking at the photos of the E bay regulator you can see the power transistor that does all the work and I'm not sure it is mounted in a way that will allow it to cool itself properly. It's the small black plastic block with three leads on the right hand side. Its job is to control the current to the alternator field and in doing so it burns up some power in the form of heat. If the heat has no where to go the transistor will fail.

[resq302]

Pete,

I have been running one like that is in the picture that Aaron posted in my charger for easily 10 years now and have had no issues so far.  Matter of fact, we just got one of those and put the original regulator cover on it for our GTX.  Love the versatility of stock appearing yet modern tech under a cover.  Similar to the Odyssey battery conversion.

[Captain D]

Hi all,

I was able to borrow a 12V battery charger today, and, after doing a quick test reading on the gauge meter - it showed that the battery is in need of a charging (due in part to my driving the car back home while running off the battery for 25-30 minutes).

I'll do a slow charge on it and see how things go. I realize that this 'may' not be the heart of the problem seeing how I drove the car almost 30 minutes to a friend's house and all the while that high output alternator from Summit (15V) would have been charging the battery, and, making the swap in alternators so soon afterward wouldn't have shown such a low battery reading when we pulled the positive terminal off the battery to see how well the new alternator is holding up; at least I wouldn't think so.

Not sure if this is relevant or not, but I did notice that when I first set out to drive up to his shop with the older Summit alternator in place (15V), when I put it in reverse/idle the ammeter did go slightly into the negative zone (to the left of the '0'), so maybe things weren't getting charged properly on the way up to his garage in the first place  . And, when the key is at the 'on' position just prior to firing it up, I tend to hear a single click noise (sounds like its from the upper firewall and/or alternator region). Just thought that I would throw that little bit of info out there to see if helps to zero in on anything specific...

Thank you Pete for the suggestion on testing whether the issue is with the alternator or regulator. Just so that I do it correctly, you're suggesting that I:

1.) Place the multimeter on the battery terminals in order to get a reading,
2.) Start up the car,
3.) disconnect the two wires on both sides of the regulator,
4.) Then, touch them together to see what the reading is on the multimeter.

If so, I'll get someone there as I may not have enough hands,  . If this is what you're recommending, I certainly will try it if it means getting to the bottom of the issue. However, the only problem that I foresee is that on the right-hand side of the regulator (where it slides onto a male stud, for lack of a better phrase) that female section has a hard plastic boot on it. So, I don't know how good of a reading that I could really get.

I'll take a better look at it tomorrow and in the meantime, I did find the regulator you noted, as well as the conversion wire kit. Summit doesn't have a picture, unfortunately, but I think that this might be it if this is something that I may need:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dcc-4529794

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pco-5329pt/overview/

Thank you again for your time and patience as I slowly acquire the tools, etc. in checking this stuff out,
Aaron


   

[myk]

Why don't you just take the 'alt, regulator and the battery to a parts store and have them all tested?

[MaximRecoil]

Why don't you just take the 'alt, regulator and the battery to a parts store and have them all tested?

Parts stores don't always know what they are doing when it comes to testing that stuff. It depends on how well-trained the employee that does the testing is I suppose. The alternator I've had in my Charger since 2011 is one from the junkyard that the local parts store said was no good, after all of the employees stood around the alternator testing machine trying to figure out how to hook it up properly. They tried a few different combinations of connections before declaring it was no good, but they were obviously wrong, seeing as how it charges at 14 - 14.4 volts, and has done so for 2 years now.

I've seen parts store employees fumble with battery tests too. Sometimes they just do a voltage test, and declare it good if it is in the 12.6 volt range, which isn't enough information to declare a battery good.

Also, to the OP, alternators don't do a good job recharging significantly discharged batteries, not even if you drive around for 30 minutes. That's a job for a dedicated battery charger. For example, I bought a new Mopar battery from the dealership a couple of years ago for my 2001 Dakota. That truck doesn't get driven much, and after about a year the battery seemed to be dying; cranking real weakly at times, and sometimes needing a boost from a jump pack to start at all. So I figured that since the battery was still under warranty, I'd take it back to the dealership, about a 30 minute drive. They tested the battery when I got there and it was partially discharged (despite 30 minutes worth of driving with my alternator putting out over 14 volts). So they had to recharge the battery before they could do their battery of tests on it (it took about an hour to recharge fully), and then it came back with a clean bill of health.

When I got back home I decided to do an amp draw test on the truck to see what was going on, and I found that it draws 40 milliamps when just sitting with everything off, which is a little high, but not too out of the ordinary for modern computer controlled vehicles (my '69 Charger has zero draw with everything off, which is as it should be for old vehicles). The problem was that it wasn't being driven enough for the alternator to keep up with the draw, and given enough time, it drained the battery. So I installed a battery disconnect switch, and every time I park it for the night I disconnect the juice. I haven't had any problems with the battery since.

Your first order of business is definitely to make sure your battery is in good health, as that is fundamental to a properly working electrical system.

[Pete in NH]

Hi Brian and Aaron,

Brian, I bet the regulator you put on your Charger ten years ago was still made in the USA. Today, you can't be sure of where things are made but, if it's kind of a low dollar item it's most likely China. The Chinese stuff can be a real crap shoot sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I'm not saying it's definitely the problem here, but it could be.

Aaron, yes, the steps you listed are what you want to do. If you find the regulator is bad and want to convert it to the Chrysler system the Summit part numbers you listed are the ones you'll need. You can use a short length of wire stripped at both ends to touch the two disconnected regulator wires together.Don't worry about taking up anyones time. Your car isn't working right and we're here to help each other. It might take a few postings and some testing on your part but, we will get it sorted out and your car back on the road. Remember if you really don't know the answer there are no dumb questions. I've been working on these systems for 40 years so they are quite simple to me but, I realize to others they are a complete mystery.

[myk]

Why don't you just take the 'alt, regulator and the battery to a parts store and have them all tested?

Parts stores don't always know what they are doing when it comes to testing that stuff. It depends on how well-trained the employee that does the testing is I suppose. The alternator I've had in my Charger since 2011 is one from the junkyard that the local parts store said was no good, after all of the employees stood around the alternator testing machine trying to figure out how to hook it up properly. They tried a few different combinations of connections before declaring it was no good, but they were obviously wrong, seeing as how it charges at 14 - 14.4 volts, and has done so for 2 years now.

No, they don't, but it's not any worse than swapping out multiple pieces and hoping to see if "something works."

[Captain D]

Thank you Pete for your patience and understanding with everything, my friend  .

I had to put in some extra hours today at my work, so the only progress thus far was my charging up the battery (it only took 15 minutes to charge back up after my 25 minute drive home the other day), and, I did notice a wire that 'may' have been worthwhile swapping out. The wire that I addressed was the wire terminal that has a small screw on the left-hand side of the regulator - I believe it is the green positive wire that runs from the alternator. The old terminal had some slight/minor corrosion and build-up on it so it may not be the culprit, but it certainly looked dated and worthwhile replacing either way. 'If' it wasn't good, then it may explain why power was inhibited from the alternator to the regulator/battery perhaps,  .

I'll fire up the car tomorrow, but if nothing changes then I'll do the multimeter test that you recommended (since I'll have an extra pair of hands to help me) and see if anything becomes evident regarding if the problem is the regulator or alternator. I still have an appointment scheduled this Monday at a garage that is pretty good, so if all else fails - I'll just run off the battery again over to the shop and see if they can zero in on the issue. Hopefully, once they determine what it is, I'll get after those parts,  .

I'll post back again tomorrow on the latest findings, lol. 
Aaron 

[Captain D]

Hello Pete - I started up the car to see if the new terminal on the left-hand side of the regulator made any difference. Other than my seeing a brief puff of blue-like smoke out the back for a quick second; there still was no change.

My dad and I then proceeded to do the test you recommended (unplugging the two wires that run to the regulator and briefly touching them together to see if the readings went any higher on the battery/multimeter). Again, still nothing. In fact, when we did that, the car simply shut itself off. After reconnecting those two wires back onto the regulator, I then restarted the car again just to make sure that I didn't short anything out. Thankfully, everything seemed to be okay.

At this point, I'm not sure exactly what else to look into. It could be the regulator, but I've been replacing them and the problem still persists, so perhaps it is along a wire that I can't see or the alternator (odd as it may be) is need of replacing,  .

Thank you again for the guidance thus far with everything,
Aaron

[Pete in NH]

Hi Aaron,

Something really strange is going on here! This is going to take some more investigating to find out what it is. Does your multimeter have an R X 1 scale on it so we can do some basic continuity tests. Also, please confirm that of the two connection on the alternator field terminal one goes to ground and the other goes to the voltage regulator.

A puff of smoke no matter how small is never a good thing when talking about electrical items. Also, the car should not have quit running when you connected those two wires at the regulator. Would it be possible to take some pictures of the back of the alternator and the regulator wiring.A picture is always worth a thousand words.

[Captain D]

Hi there Pete,

I agree, if you guys are stumped; I'm even more so,  . But just to clarify, the little puff of smoke was not in or around the engine bay, but out of the exhaust tips but still - I had never seen that before. But yes, just to clarify, one short blue wire goes onto a ground to the back of the alternator and the longer green wire runs to the left-hand side of the voltage regulator. This was the end wire-terminal that I replaced last night after work (the terminal that connects to the left-hand side of the regulator with the small screw connection). But, I didn't see any RX1 scale reading option on the multimeter. 

I will be happy to try to take a few pics for you, but I've never posted pics and reduced their size on the forum before so I will try. But, in the meantime, would you be willing to lend me your email address and I can simply forward you some pictures so that I can get them to you faster (if that is an option)...?

Thank you again and I was going to drive the car to the garage on Monday, but I'll wait to get your take on it first.
Aaron

[Pete in NH]

Hi Aaron,

I'm not stumped yet, just don't have enough information to see what's going on! Check your private messages, I'll send you my email address for those photos. Send a photo of your multimeter too.

[Captain D]

Hi there Pete,

Just emailed a few pics to your address. If are in need of any more, please let me know and I realize that you guys are pretty good here; I have total faith you guys! 
High regards,
Aaron

[flyinlow]

My dad and I then proceeded to do the test you recommended (unplugging the two wires that run to the regulator and briefly touching them together to see if the readings went any higher on the battery/multimeter). Again, still nothing. In fact, when we did that, the car simply shut itself off. After reconnecting those two wires back onto the regulator, I then restarted the car again just to make sure that I didn't short anything out. Thankfully, everything seemed to be okay.

Originally I thought you had the more modern alternator due to the summit reference picture. You have the older style single wire from the alternator to mechanical regulator.
You said  that when you connected  the blue power to the regulator wire and the green (I think) wire that feeds the alternator field circuit, there was no change in system voltage. With the regulator leads connected together the alternator should go to full charge. At idle stock alternators are probably charging close to fully anyway. As you increase rpm the regulator will reduce current to the alternator field circuit to regulate output. You also said the engine quit , I am guessing because you shorted the ignition out. This should not of happened. The blue wire to the regulator is spiced to the blue wire to your ignition ballast resistor.  Is the green wire from the regulator to the alternator field grounded somehow?

[resq302]

Hi Aaron,

Here are the pics you sent me to resize and post for you.  I will try and clean up the old alternator that I have and see if it is good or not.

[resq302]

pic of Aarons regulator on the firewall.

[Pete in NH]

Aaron,

Thanks for sending the pictures, very nice GL by the way!

Okay, lets do some troubleshooting with your meter. First, set the meter to the 200 ohm range. The ohms section of the meter is marked with the symbol that sort of looks like an upside down U. Next touch the two meter leads together and the meter should read zero or very close to it, a couple of tenths of an ohm max.

Now, with the ignition key in the off position, and disconnect the negative battery cable just to be safe, disconnect the green field wire from the regulator on the back of the alternator. Place one meter lead on the field connection where the green wire went and the other meter lead to ground on the alternator case. you should read something between 4 and 8 ohms or so. You should NOT read zero or a few tenths of an ohm. Next, disconnect the other field terminal from ground and measure again from the alternator case to this field terminal. You should not get any ohms reading. Finally, measure between the two field terminals and you should see 4 to 8 ohms.

Next, measure between the green wire from the regulator and ground and let me know what reading you get.

I think there is a possibility that one of the field terminalshas already been grounded internally in the alternator by the alternator re-builder if you specified an alternator for a 69 model car. If that is so you had a 50-50 chance when you installed the alternator of connecting your regulator output to ground. Anyway, these measurements will comfirm what's going on.

[Captain D]

Hi guys,

Thank you for posting the pics and thank you Pete for the compliment, my friend  .

I just got back from the garage. Now, I may have to alter my thread to read: "Alternator Question (Charging the battery too much)."

As for the grounding issue, you're absolutely right - the grounding wire configuration was incorrectly installed on the car and the diodes registered as "failed" when they did the alternator test. They altered the wiring that runs from a newly installed 60 amp alternator to the regulator and the amperage is registering just fine now (57 amps) and it is finally recharging the battery.

However, now the battery is getting too much voltage charge in that it was reading 16V and the ammeter was reading +20 to +40 range (even after they recharged the battery since I essentially ran off of it in order to drive it to the garage). It was dang near pegged to the right when given higher RPMs. Seeing how I didn't want to blow either my new battery or alternator, we simply unhooked the new line (from the alternator to the regulator) and I drove back home off my battery again since they couldn't do anymore for it).

The only thing that we could come up with was for me to recharge the battery after driving the car back home, try another voltage regulator, and see if there is any change on the multimeter across the battery after starting the car. If the regulators are good, we were thinking as to what else could be a problem in limiting that much voltage to the battery now. Its trying to find that happy medium in before we had no power going to the battery, now we have too much,  .

Thank you again for your time and input in this circus,  
Aaron
     

[Pete in NH]

Aaron,

Well, it sounds like you're making some progress. If indeed the regulator output was grounded due to the alternator hook up on the field terminals there is a good chance the regulator got blown in the process. I would bet the output transistor in the regulator got fried and shorted putting the full battery voltage on the field. That would give you the 16 volts and above you are seeing across the battery. And, yes you don't want to run it that way you will cook your new battery.

Sorry to say it, but I think your going to need another regulator. You can try putting your ohm meter across the two regulator terminals with the car off and the regulator wire to the field disconnected as it is now. Zero ohms or a real low ohm reading would mean the regulator output is likely shorted.

[Captain D]

Hi Pete - I put another regulator on there (my older one) but it too may have been toasted as its not 'regulating' anything either. Since both were used to see if they helped to make a difference, you could be right; it may be worthwhile to start fresh and see what happens. Other than that, we're unsure what else to look for regarding the wires. While I'm at it, it may be worthwhile to finally get one of those Mopar regulators we've been talking about,  .

Thank you again and I look forward to keeping in touch,
Aaron

[Dino]

$27 and they even ship it for free.  Mine will arrive sometime today.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Mopar+Performance/312/P4529794/10002/-1

[Captain D]

Hi guys,

If I did go with one of the Mopar regulators and pig-tail conversion units, since I've never done something like this before, is there a tutorial on here that you know of or would you be willing to walk me through how to do it so that I can learn how to do it myself? I'm curious to see what all is involved...

Thank you again for the time and input,
Aaron

[myk]

15, 16 volts?  Let's take a moment to take a look at something else here. 

Are you still running the factory setup with the charging system directly connected to the ammeter gauge?  Do you still have the factory wiring as well?  Even when these charging systems worked properly there was always the chance of the ammeter melting and an electrical fire ensuing.  If you're truly running 15, 16 volts through your electrical system that could be a a real hazard for your car; this problem could be even worse when you consider that the factory wiring is over 40 years old-it's a fire waiting to happen.  For safety's sake, take the time to perform the ammeter bypass 'mod; our cars aren't designed to take that kind of voltage...

[Pete in NH]

Hi Aaron,

The conversion to the newer regulator is an easy one. First though, with the alternator issues you've had I would first make sure one of the field terminals is not internally grounded in the alternator. The mopar electronic regulator requires a true floating field two wire alternator. Take you ohm meter and set it to the 200 ohm range. disconnect both field wire connections  and measure between the alternator case and each field terminal connection on the alternator. You should not get a reading in either position.

To add the newer regulator you have to add one wire. Wire the blue wire on the pig tail connector for the new regulator to the blue wires on the existing regulator connector and also add a new blue wire from this point to one of the alternator field terminals. Then wire the green pigtail connector wire to the existing green wire to the other alternator field connection. When you mount the new regulator make sure the case is grounded well.

That's all there is to it.

[Captain D]

Hi guys,

Yeah, the name of the game is to definitely get the voltage between the 13V and 14V, for sure,  .

Hi Pete - thank you for the tutorial on the conversion steps - I wrote them down  . As a side note, I did contact the ebay seller that sells the electronic regulator a few days back (that I had posted earlier under my thread) and he was kind enough to send me another one free of charge. In the meantime, while I am waiting for it to arrive, I did find a points-style regulator and installed it. Everything was hooked up right, but when I turned the key onto the 'on' position the ammeter needle completely pegged to the left and stayed there (in the -40 region). Since I was unfamiliar with that reading, as I've never seen that before, I decided to play it safe and not try to turn the engine over. On my alternator, there is a green wire that runs from one of the field terminals (on the alternator) to the "field connection" on the regualtor. On the other field terminal on the alternator, the shop just installed a new line (and clip) that runs from it to the ignition/blue wire just off the regulator.

I was hoping to try out the points style to see if it was a regulator issue before the new electronic unit arrived (probably on Thursday), but I didn't know what to make of that pegging needle on the ammeter,  . I'm concerned that even when the new electronic regulator arrives, things may still not be right. Is there anything that I can check, alter, etc. to see if I can get a head-start on this issue before the appropriate regulator arrives? If you would like more pics, just let me know and I will be happy to provide them.

Thank you again for the guidance in this circus,
Aaron  

[resq302]

Aaron,

Sounds like you have a direct short somewhere since my ammeter on my charger only goes to something like -20 when I have the key in the "on" position and not running.  I also notice that it goes even more to the left should I step on the brakes or have my lights on.  But it should not go all the way to the left of the neg. range just with the key in the on position and not running.

[Captain D]

Hi Brian,

In running a ground wire for my new alternator; which only has one bolt stud at the bottom - would you feel that I could simply run a ground wire from this main bolt (at the bottom of the alternator that shares both the purple and black wires in the pictures) to any close bolt within the range of the alternator? If so, what size wire gauge would you recommend for this new ground wire that I'm about to make, if I may ask further please?

Thank you again (and everyone) for your time and putting up with my many annoyances as we try to wrap this situation up,
Aaron

[Dino]

Aaron, there's plenty annoyances on this site, you are not one of them.  Ask away, as much as you want.

[resq302]

Hi Brian,

In running a ground wire for my new alternator; which only has one bolt stud at the bottom - would you feel that I could simply run a ground wire from this main bolt (at the bottom of the alternator that shares both the purple and black wires in the pictures) to any close bolt within the range of the alternator? If so, what size wire gauge would you recommend for this new ground wire that I'm about to make, if I may ask further please?

Thank you again (and everyone) for your time and putting up with my many annoyances as we try to wrap this situation up,
Aaron

Aaron,

Do NOT connect a ground wire or that wire from the other field to the stud where that purple and black wire is.  That is the hot / pos. wire for the alternator and you will likely do some major damage if you do not blow the fuseable link first.  On the round back alternators, the other alternator brush (the one that does not have the green wire going to it) had gotten attached directly to the alternator casing which was ground.

[Pete in NH]

Aaron,

As Brian said DO NOT connect a ground wire to the stud with the black and violet wire on it. You mentioned the shop installed yet another new alternator on Monday, is it the same type as shown in your earlier picture? You also posted that the shop added a wire from the blue ignition terminal on the regulator to one of the alternator field connections, if so that wire is NOT correct for the older points style regulator or the EBay type regulator and is very likely the reason you are seeing the amp meter peg at -40. Maybe the clearest thing to do is post or send me a picture of the new alternator and wiring.

It's tough to read some of your posts and hear you are going through alternators, regulators and I'm sure money at an alarming rate. I'm not trying to be critical of anyone here but, I'm not sure the shop you are dealing with knows very much about these old Chrysler systems. So, please before you go through any more parts or money- disconnect both field terminals and use your ohm meter to see if one of them is internally grounded as I have outlined above. If your alternator is a true 69 round back one of the field brush connections will be internally grounded. The other field connection will go to your green wire and the regulator field connection. This will be true for both the EBay regulator and the old points type regulator. Once we know if one of the field connections in internally grounded or not it will be easy to get this thing hooked up correctly and working.

[resq302]

Pete,

I was talking with Aaron on the phone last night and he said that the shop hooked up the second field wire to the blue wire on the IGN side of the voltage regulator.  I am willing to lay money that is the cause of the -40 amp gauge draw as that would essentially be almost a direct ground.  Without seeing the back of the alternator it is hard to say how they (rebuild company) did the two brushes.  I have seen where rebuild kits that I get when I rebuild my alternator has the two plastic insulators in the kit where as only one is needed.  If the rebuild company added the insulator to the second field wire that should be direct grounded to the casing, then either Aaron will need to remove that insulator or hook that second field wire to a ground such as a bolt on the engine or other place which would act as a ground.  Back when I first got my charger, I had an incorrectly rebuilt alt on there and had the two field connectors.  One with the green wire that went to the regulator and the other basically had a jumper wire that went from the second connector to a solderless connector that went through the alt. pivot bolt which acted as a ground.

[Captain D]

Hi Pete and Brian,

I emailed you guys two recent pics of the new (red) wire that runs to the 'ignition' side of the regulator (that the shop installed on my car this past Monday), as well as the newly installed alternator. I greatly appreciate your letting me know about the stud where the black and purple wires connect to - I wouldn't run a ground without double-checking with you guys first, hands-down,  .

As you can see in the pics that I had sent to your emails, the new red wire is disconnected from the alternator field terminal (with electrical tape secured at the end) and I've never ran the car with it installed so as to protect both my new alternator and battery. Brian's statement of, "the second field wire that should be direct grounded to the casing," was exactly how my old alternator was set-up (the one with the fried diodes) but the one installed on my car now doesn't have that extra bolt stud so that I could simply run a short wire from onto a field terminal - as it is pictured above in this thread of my old alternator set-up. In that particular pic, you can clearly see the short blue wire for my ground going from that small bolt onto a field terminal, but with the new alternator - there is no such bolt (only two field terminals and the stud for the battery).

Although I sent a few pics of the alternator as it is installed in my car, I realize that it can be a little hard to see of the back so I found the part number online; which has some good pics of the back:

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/buy/products/34637-alternator-remanufactured-60-amps-by-toughone-part-p7001-alternators.html#

Just so that we're on the same page...you guys feel that I should remove that new red wire altogether that the shop recently put on, run a short ground wire from that field terminal (where the new red wire would have ran to), and have this new ground wire that we're about to make go to a dead bolt within the engine bay. Is that correct? If so, what size ground wire would you suggest that I use and how best to remove that blue clip that adjoins both the new red wire and small blue wire up near the regulator (the one that the shop recently installed)? I think it just opens up, but I just like to double-check with you guys first before I tackle anything. As a side note, if this is what needs to be done, this basically puts me back to the original set-up as before I went to the garage on Monday and when the car wasn't getting any charge to the battery. But, I realize that the difference now is that we changed out an alternator with bad diodes and a poorly functioning regulator combo. But, like you noted Pete, before we go any further, we'll do a test to see if it is internally grounded... 


Thank you again for your time and guidance,
Aaron

 

[Pete in NH]

Brian and Aaron,

Brian, Aaron sent me some photos of the new alternator and a web link to the Advanced Auto Parts unit he has on the car. The web link clearly shows one brush holder connected to ground through a metal clip and from Aaron's photo it appears to be the brush holder the shop chose to run the red wire they added from the ignition run circuit to. So, as you said they had a direct short to ground.

Aaron, with that alternator you need to remove that red wire! Again, please use your ohm meter to confirm that connector tab is really grounded.  If it is grounded, don't connect anything to it. Then use only the green wire to your new EBay regulator when you get it to the other field terminal. You don't need to add any additional ground wires if that brush holder is already grounded.

That new blue connector that the shop added looks like a type that should just unsnap and open up, you can then remove it.

[Captain D]

Hi there Pete,

Thank you for taking the time to check out the pics that I had sent. For the multimeter, I looked for an upside down 'U' - the only thing that I had seen that was close was the battery cable symbol and the numbers ending in the letter 'K.' I put it on the 200K setting, which read:

1.) Touching the two leads together: 00.0 (then, I went over to disconnect the negative battery cable),
2.)  Disconnected the green wire at the alternator terminal. Put one lead onto that alternator terminal and one to the casing of the alternator for a ground: it read: 00.0.
3.) I then repeated the same steps with the second terminal where the new red wire was intended to go, and, it too was: 00.0.
4.) I then put one lead on one terminal and the other lead on the second terminal across each other. Again, 00.0.
5.) I then had the green wire re-installed at the regulator point and found a ground just to see if anything different would show by chance, and it too was 00.0.

So, in a nutshell, everything was 00.0 all around. If you guys need me to do any more tests/readings, please let me know and what you may think based on these numbers. Based on this info; it looks like I may have to make a ground/jumper wire to run off of the second field terminal (where they had the red wire intended to go) onto a dead bolt...

Best regards,
Aaron

[MaximRecoil]

Hi there Pete,

Thank you for taking the time to check out the pics that I had sent. For the multimeter, I looked for an upside down 'U' - the only thing that I had seen that was close was the battery cable symbol and the numbers ending in the letter 'K.' I put it on the 200K setting, which read:

1.) Touching the two leads together: 00.0 (then, I went over to disconnect the negative battery cable),
2.)  Disconnected the green wire at the alternator terminal. Put one lead onto that alternator terminal and one to the casing of the alternator for a ground: it read: 00.0.
3.) I then repeated the same steps with the second terminal where the new red wire was intended to go, and, it too was: 00.0.
4.) I then put one lead on one terminal and the other lead on the second terminal across each other. Again, 00.0.
5.) I then had the green wire re-installed on the regular point and found a ground just to see if anything different would show by chance, and it was 00.0.

So, in a nutshell, everything was 00.0 all around. If you guys need me to do any more tests/readings, please let me know and what you may think based on these numbers. Based on this info; it looks like I may have to make a ground/jumper wire to run off of the second field terminal (where they had the red wire intended to go) onto a dead bolt...

Best regards,
Aaron

I don't know what to make of those readings. Maybe someone else will, but some meters have different ways of doing things. What you're trying to do is a continuity check, and if there is no continuity there will be no reading at all, no different than if your meter's probes weren't touching anything. If there is continuity then the meter will do something. If you have it set to measure resistance (ohms), you will get a low value if you have good continuity, such as if you touched both probes to a penny. There is really no such thing as 0 ohms under normal conditions, as your readings would suggest, because outside the realm of superconductivity, everything has some resistance, even if it is minuscule.

Does your meter have a continuity check mode? Look for a symbol like an arrow combined with a cross, like this - link. It may "beep" when you have continuity, or it may not, depending on what meter you have. Either way, it will do something if you have continuity, whereas it will do nothing if you don't have continuity.

I suggest trying your meter in continuity mode (the resistance check as suggested by previous posters accomplishes the same thing, but if you were on 200K [200,000 ohms] that's way too high a setting for a continuity check; you should be on 200 ohms) with something that you know has continuity just so you can see what your meter does when there is continuity.

Set your meter to the setting which has the arrow/cross symbol (it may have a sound wave looking symbol too, which means it can beep when there is continuity), and touch the probes together (or touch them both to the alternator case, or whatever), and take note of what your meter does.

When you're testing your field terminals on your alternator, what you're trying to determine is if either one of them is grounded, that is, if either one of them can conduct electricity to ground, which ultimately leads back to your negative battery terminal. The metal housing of your alternator is grounded by default, because it is bolted to your engine block, which has cables connected to it which ultimately lead back to your negative battery post.

Once you know what your meter does when you have continuity, do the test on your alternator again; i.e., hold one probe to the alternator case and the other probe to one of the field terminals, and then do the other terminal. If you get a reading, that means that terminal is grounded. If you don't get a reading (i.e., the same as if your probes were touching nothing at all), it is not grounded. Also, make sure the probes are getting good electrical contact when you do the test; sometimes this means scraping or sanding to reveal some clean bare metal, if you are testing on dirty or oxidized surfaces.

[Captain D]

Hi there Maxim,

I did find the symbol on my multimeter that you had noted in your link. Simply repeating the same process, things read as (with the negative battery terminal still disconnected):

- I touched both wire leads of the multimeter together and they registered at 002.
- Disconnected the green wire at the alternator terminal. Put one lead onto that alternator terminal and one to the casing of the alternator for a ground: 002.
- I then repeated the same steps with the second terminal where the new red wire was intended to go, and, it was: from 006 to 007.
- And, I then put one lead on one terminal and the other lead on the second terminal across each other: 007.
- I then had the green wire re-installed at the regulator point and found a nearby ground just to see if anything different would show. It registered at: 025.

Although its not crucial, if mine does require a ground for the alternator its odd that this particular part # didn't have the necessary stud/post already provided to begin with. I hope that these numbers helped any, and again, if you need any more info - just let me know,
Aaron

[MaximRecoil]

Hi there Maxim,

I did find the symbol on my multimeter that you had noted in your link. Simply repeating the same process, things read as (with the negative battery terminal still disconnected):

- I touched both wire leads of the multimeter together and they registered at 002.
- Disconnected the green wire at the alternator terminal. Put one lead onto that alternator terminal and one to the casing of the alternator for a ground: 002.
- I then repeated the same steps with the second terminal where the new red wire was intended to go, and, it was: from 006 to 007.
- And, I then put one lead on one terminal and the other lead on the second terminal across each other: 007.
- I then had the green wire re-installed at the regulator point and found a nearby ground just to see if anything different would show. It registered at: 025.

So both field terminals are grounded? "002" indicates good continuity, just as good of continuity on your meter as when touching the two probes together. "006" or "007" is still continuity. Maybe something isn't right with your alternator.  

I'll let Pete in NH advise you on how to proceed from here (if it were me, I'd return the alternator and regulator, then ask for an alternator and regulator for a '70s Mopar, mount and wire them up and be done).

Although its not crucial, if mine does require a ground for the alternator its odd that this particular part # didn't have the necessary stud/post already provided to begin with. I hope that these numbers helped any, and again, if you need any more info - just let me know,

Alternators don't have a stud for grounding; they ground simply by being bolted to the engine block. You could add a ground wire from one of its mounting bolts to the chassis, engine block, or negative battery terminal, but it would be redundant. When people add ground wires to Mopar alternators, it is to make a newer dual field terminal alternator (1970 and later) work with a pre-1970 mechanical voltage regulator, and they do this by grounding one of the field terminals (a different thing than grounding the alternator case itself; as I said, the alternator case is already grounded by default, just as soon as you install it).

[Captain D]

Hi Maxim,

I'm not exactly sure what you had referred to as both terminals as being 'grounded.' Basically, I disconnected a lot of stuff, such as: both sides of the voltage regulator (the green field and blue ignition wires), the green terminal wire on the alternator itself, the second field terminal wire on the alternator, and of course, the battery) when taking those readings.

As for the alternator, I had it tested prior to actually paying for it and everything tested out fine. Once installed, it registered at 57 amps and a new voltage regulator should be here by tomorrow. The only thing that came up as being high after a series of tests was the amount of voltage going to the battery. But, the ground wire and stud that I was referring to on the alternator was on my older alternator,  which had the blue wire configuration as pictured on page #2 of this thread. As you may see, the little blue wire and stud were the ones that I was referring to; especially since that specific field terminal seems to have a fiber washer (the washer in between the bolt that holds that particular field terminal in place) to serve as a ground terminal to begin with, it seems.    

Hope that this helps to clarify somewhat,
Aaron

[MaximRecoil]

Hi Maxim,

I'm not exactly sure what you had referred to as both terminals as being 'grounded.' Basically, I disconnected a lot of stuff, such as: both sides of the voltage regulator (the green field and blue ignition wires), the green terminal wire on the alternator itself, the second field terminal on the alternator, and of course, the battery) when taking those readings.

They are both grounded because your meter shows electrical continuity between your alternator's field terminals and its case. When the alternator is installed in your car, the case is grounded, so anything that has continuity to the case is also grounded.

As for the alternator, I had it tested prior to actually paying for it and everything tested out fine. Once installed, it registered at 57 amps and a new voltage regulator should be here by tomorrow. The only thing that came up as being high was the amount of voltage going to the battery. But, the ground wire and stud that I was referring to on the alternator was the blue wire as pictured on page #2 of this thread. As you may see, the little blue wire was the one that I was referring to; especially since that specific field terminal seems to have a fiber washer (the washer in between the bolt that holds that particular field terminal in place).    

Hope that this helps to clarify somewhat,
Aaron

Like I said, I'll defer to Pete in NH. There may be something in those readings that he sees that I don't. You could also try the tests again with your meter set to the 200 ohm range. The reason you were getting all 00.0 readings before was because you had the meter set to 200K range, which is too high of a range for what you're testing (you would use that range to measure 200,000 ohm and higher resistors).

[Captain D]

Okay, I can see what you're referrring to now. But, with being said, I suppose that I wouldn't know which wire (s) to modify at this point on this current alternator.  Just out of curiosity, I thought that the 200k was the correct dial to set the multimeter on to measure the ohms. Would you know which dial I should set it at, what symbol it looks like, etc, and I can always do another round of tests to see what those numbers may be...
Thanks,
Aaron

[MaximRecoil]

Okay, I can see what you're referrring to now. But, with being said, I suppose that I wouldn't know which wire (s) to modify at this point on this current alternator.  Just out of curiosity, I thought that the 200k was the correct dial to set the multimeter on to measure the ohms. Would you know which dial I should set it at, what symbol it looks like, etc, and I can always do another round of tests to see what those numbers may be...
Thanks,
Aaron

You want 200 ohms, not 200k ohms. Take a look at this multimeter - link.

The ohms section on that meter is from about 6 o'clock to 9 o'clock. You can see the ohms symbol (Ω), which is the "upside down U" that was mentioned earlier, and you can see several numbers (200, 2000, 20k, 200k, 2000k). You want to set your dial to 200.

[Pete in NH]

Hi there Maxim,

I did find the symbol on my multimeter that you had noted in your link. Simply repeating the same process, things read as (with the negative battery terminal still disconnected):

- I touched both wire leads of the multimeter together and they registered at 002.
- Disconnected the green wire at the alternator terminal. Put one lead onto that alternator terminal and one to the casing of the alternator for a ground: 002.
- I then repeated the same steps with the second terminal where the new red wire was intended to go, and, it was: from 006 to 007.
- And, I then put one lead on one terminal and the other lead on the second terminal across each other: 007.
- I then had the green wire re-installed at the regulator point and found a nearby ground just to see if anything different would show. It registered at: 025.



Although its not crucial, if mine does require a ground for the alternator its odd that this particular part # didn't have the necessary stud/post already provided to begin with. I hope that these numbers helped any, and again, if you need any more info - just let me know,
Aaron

Hi Aaron,

Okay, now we know what we needed to know!

Yes, the 200 ohm range is the one you needed. When you touched the two meter leads together and saw 002, that meant that the meter leads and connections were adding two ohms to anything you would measure. You simply subtract that two ohms from any reading you make when measuring small resistances.

So, the connection that had the green wire on is really 0 ohms to the case, that is it is connected to the alternator case., no need for a second ground wire.

The second terminal (where the red wire was) is 006 to 007 or really 4 to 5 ohms which is the field winding of the alternator and what I would expect to see there.  THE GREEN WIRE FROM THE REGULATOR should be connected to this terminal.

This is a true 1969 type alternator and should work with the EBay regulator or the old relay/mechanical type if you have a good one. Again remove that RED wire, with a  good regulator you should be all set.

This alternator will not work with the newer Mopar electronic  regulator with out changing out the grounded brush holder.

[resq302]

Pete,

I think what the problem is that when the alt. gets rebuilt today, the kits that are available is the same brushes as the 70 and up units that have the 2 field alt.  Instead of the company cutting the extra connect clip off, they leave it on there so it is a "one part fits all" type of thing.  I had been telling Aaron that original brushes did not have this as the second brush was just screwed right into the housing with no insulator washer at all.  If it did have the insulator washer, then it would not be grounded out to the casing.

Here is a pic of what the original brushes should look like for the 69 and older ones.  Notice the fiber / plastic washer on the one screw for the brush which connects to the green field wire would normally go.

First pic is the sqaure back (2 field) alt. on the right and round back (69 and older) on the left.
Second pic is the close up of the correct brushes.  One with the connector you can see the fiber washer that insulates it from being grounded to the case.
Third pic is of the brushes showing the insulator washer and brushes.

[Captain D]

Hi gents,

First off, I'd like to say 'thank you' guys for all of your time devoted just to help me out - without it; I would have spent a lot more time and money trying to get to the bottom of this issue as there is no one else locally close by where I live as knowledgeable to help me the way you guys have,  .

Maxim - In your link, that is the same multimeter that I have here and I went ahead and turned the dial to the 200 ohm range to double-check those numbers for us, they read:

1.) With the battery still disconnected, I touched the two terminal leads together: 02.1.
2.) With the disconnected green wire at the alternator field terminal, I put one lead onto that alternator terminal and one to the casing of the alternator for a reading of: 02.1.
3.) I then repeated the same steps with the second terminal where the new red wire was intended to go, and, it was: between 07.3 and 07.4.
4.) I then put one lead on one terminal and the other lead on the second terminal across each other: Also, between 07.3 and 07.4.
5.) I then had the green wire re-installed at the regulator point and found a nearby ground just to see if anything different would show. It registered between: 25.4 and 25.5.

Just so that I'm on the same page; I don't need to make a new ground wire - but instead install the green wire (that runs from the regulator) onto the one particular terminal where the red wire was thought to go. Then, remove the red wire altogether (and clip), and install the new regulator when it arrives tomorrow. In your opinions, is that correct? I fought with that clip a little tonight, and even though I haven't got it off just yet...after all the trials we've been through so far, that little clip isn't going to stop me, lol,  . As for the numbers for the 200 ohm reading, what do you guys think about them?

I may have to put in some extra hours tomorrow at my work so I may be a tad late in responding back to let you know how things go, but 'thank you' again everyone (especially Brian, Pete, Maxim) - all you guys truly have a heart of gold and I have nothing but the highest respect for your knowledge, time, efforts, and patience my friends. I apologize that I'm still learning much of the terminology, and it more than likely held us up there for awhile because I didn't know what I was looking at exactly, but I got to say its good learning this stuff so that I may be able to maintain my car in the future and possibly pass that knowledge onto others as well.

Best regards,
Aaron  

[Pete in NH]

Aaron,

Yes, You have it right. The green wire from the regulator goes to the terminal that used to have the red wire on it. again, remove the red wire entirely. And yes, there is no need to ground the other field terminal as it is already grounded. Your readings on the 200 ohm scale make perfect sense as the only thing that has changed number wise is the decimal points were moved over and you got better resolution on the readings.

Brian,

Yes, I agree that some re-builders idea of making a one size fits all alternator can really cause some issues that they should specifically warn you about. At least in the last go around Aaron did indeed  receive a true 1969 round back alternator. But as you say because the re-builder used a non original terminal clip, both field connections kind of looked the same unless you looked very carefully. That was the reason for suggesting the ohm meter testing, to sort out what was really there. Perhaps the board administrators can make a permanent sticky note on this issue out of this thread because I suspect Aaron is not the first to fall into this trap nor be the last.

[resq302]

Pete,

That is exactly why I used a hack saw and cut off that one end of the terminal making it flush like the old brush that I took out.  You no longer have a chance to get it confused.  Heck, even a round back alternator had two brushes, BOTH with the fiber washer.  Once I realized that, I unscrewed the one and made it the field with the direct ground.  Problem solved!   

And yes, I agree that hopefully the mods see this and make it a sticky!  Like you said, I have run into it and as seen, Aaron has also.  Hopefully by Aaron sharing this, others can benefit from his education as well!   

See, Aaron, you aren't just getting help for yourself but anyone/everyone else who either has or might have this issue in the future!

[Captain D]

Hi guys!

I was able to eliminate that red wire and clip, install the new regulator that arrived today, and run only the green wire from the regulator to the alternator (where the red wire was installed at the local garage). The 'great' news is that I now have absolutely 'perfect' numbers (57 amps, 14.6 volts to the battery, and the ammeter is just where it needs to be, which is slightly to the right of the '0') - finally, lol!  . Seeing that put a tear of joy to the eye,  .

Yes, absolutely, I hope that this issue becomes a sticky/point of reference for those who may potentially go through the same headache  . In looking back at this experience, its one of those things to try to see the positive aspect in that not only did I learn more about my car, but hopefully others could benefit from this knowledge as well. The second half of my summer was aggravating at times because while most families were cookin' hotdogs and hamburgers, I was cookin' alternators and regulators well-done without knowing why, lol.

"Thank you" again gentlemen for all of the time that you took to help me out! Y'all send me your home addresses and I'll be happy to send you Christmas cards,  .
High regards,
Aaron   

[flyinlow]

 

[resq302]

Now lets just hope it stays that way.  (So don't go messin' with things!)       Just kidding!  Besides, you gotta keep that car fixed so you can bring it to the National Chrysler Products Club meet next year in Budd Lake / Mt. Olive, NJ!

[Pete in NH]

Aaron,

Great news! It's good to hear everything is as it should be. It was a tough fightbut, you won.

I think we all learned something on this one. In the end the answer is always a simple one once you find it! I think the real thing to remember here is that when you hit a real puzzle such as this one was. Is to take a step back and think your way through the problem by knowing or finding out how the system is supposed to work. Also, having some simple test equipment and making some informed measurements is so much more helpful than shot gun approaches. Unlike newer cars these old systems can almost always be worked through with simple test equipment and a little thought.

[resq302]

Aaron,

Great news! It's good to hear everything is as it should be. It was a tough fightbut, you won.

I think we all learned something on this one. In the end the answer is always a simple one once you find it! I think the real thing to remember here is that when you hit a real puzzle such as this one was. Is to take a step back and think your way through the problem by knowing or finding out how the system is supposed to work. Also, having some simple test equipment and making some informed measurements is so much more helpful than shot gun approaches. Unlike newer cars these old systems can almost always be worked through with simple test equipment and a little thought.

Which is why I would chose an older car over a newer car cause of all the computer related parts.

[Dino]

Aaron,

Great news! It's good to hear everything is as it should be. It was a tough fightbut, you won.

I think we all learned something on this one. In the end the answer is always a simple one once you find it! I think the real thing to remember here is that when you hit a real puzzle such as this one was. Is to take a step back and think your way through the problem by knowing or finding out how the system is supposed to work. Also, having some simple test equipment and making some informed measurements is so much more helpful than shot gun approaches. Unlike newer cars these old systems can almost always be worked through with simple test equipment and a little thought.

Which is why I would chose an older car over a newer car cause of all the computer related parts.

And looking at an old car doesn't make me sad, whereas looking at all this new crap...oh well.

[resq302]

Hey Mods!  Where's the sticky for this?