Stock '68 383 exhaust upgrade??

[cougs]

Hi All,
My '68 Charger has a bone stock 4bbl 383 (10:1 compression, original magnum cam) with HP manifolds and Year One "hemi" mufflers and 2.5" exhaust.  While the car is stock and not super fast, it is a little too quiet for my taste.  What are my options for making this sound more like a muscle car?  I hear the TTI system with Dynomax mufflers sounds pretty mild but compared to what?  I hear bad things about Flowbastards in the performance department. 

I plan on adding a cam/intake/carb in the future so should I look into headers at this time? 

I would like to make the car substantially louder but would like to avoid the cruising "drone".

thanks!

[Ghoste]

TTI with Dynomax gets my vote.

[cougs]

TTI with Dynomax gets my vote.

I'd love to hear it somehow....

[green69rt]

Hi All,
My '68 Charger has a bone stock 4bbl 383 (10:1 compression, original magnum cam) with HP manifolds and Year One "hemi" mufflers and 2.5" exhaust.  While the car is stock and not super fast, it is a little too quiet for my taste.  What are my options for making this sound more like a muscle car?  I hear the TTI system with Dynomax mufflers sounds pretty mild but compared to what?  I hear bad things about Flowbastards in the performance department. 

I plan on adding a cam/intake/carb in the future so should I look into headers at this time? 

thanks!

I'd like to hear some others chime in on the issue of headers on a, mostly, street machine.   I've had headers on a car and in normal street performance situations I didn't get a lot of seat-of-the-pants satisfaction.  If the car already has HP exhaust then I don't think there is much to be gained on the street.  If you really want to make a diff on the street then step up to a steeper rear end gear ratio.

I would install a new intake as a first step.   Fairly easy to do, lots if choices, and an aluminum intake will take about 20lbs off the front of the car.  Next; a carb but again, not too big.  Just guessing but something around 700-750 CFM would be able to support 400-450 HP and still be very streetable.    No opinion on cams except the old caution about Idle and low end torque issues.

Once you get into the high CFM carbs and big cams you're really not talking a street car, maybe a street/strip at least, and more difficult to take on cruises and rallies..

[cougs]

Hi All,
My '68 Charger has a bone stock 4bbl 383 (10:1 compression, original magnum cam) with HP manifolds and Year One "hemi" mufflers and 2.5" exhaust.  While the car is stock and not super fast, it is a little too quiet for my taste.  What are my options for making this sound more like a muscle car?  I hear the TTI system with Dynomax mufflers sounds pretty mild but compared to what?  I hear bad things about Flowbastards in the performance department. 

I plan on adding a cam/intake/carb in the future so should I look into headers at this time? 

thanks!

I'd like to hear some others chime in on the issue of headers on a, mostly, street machine.   I've had headers on a car and in normal street performance situations I didn't get a lot of seat-of-the-pants satisfaction.  If the car already has HP exhaust then I don't think there is much to be gained on the street.  If you really want to make a diff on the street then step up to a steeper rear end gear ratio.

I would install a new intake as a first step.   Fairly easy to do, lots if choices, and an aluminum intake will take about 20lbs off the front of the car.  Next; a carb but again, not too big.  Just guessing but something around 700-750 CFM would be able to support 400-450 HP and still be very streetable.    No opinion on cams except the old caution about Idle and low end torque issues.

Once you get into the high CFM carbs and big cams you're really not talking a street car, maybe a street/strip at least, and more difficult to take on cruises and rallies..

I have a nice Edelbrock DP4B that I'm going to install at a later date.  It doesn't have provisions for a heat activated choke so I'll need to upgrade the carb at the same time.  Do I have an easy option to swap carbs to increase performance?  I have the stock AVS which is restored and runs OK but I've heard modern carbs have better atomization, etc.  The car currently has 3.23 gears and I'd like to still take it down the freeway so I think 3.73 is as steep as I'll take it.  I think I can afford some more cam without needing a high stall converter. 

[Hard Charger]

I got 2.5inch TTI w/ Dynamics turbo's for mufflers on my challenger and bought the same kit for the charger. very good quality and fit.

when you get on it screams.

costs about $600 when I bought it a couple years ago.

[cudaken]

Hi All,
My '68 Charger has a bone stock 4bbl 383 (10:1 compression, original magnum cam) with HP manifolds and Year One "hemi" mufflers and 2.5" exhaust.  While the car is stock and not super fast, it is a little too quiet for my taste.  What are my options for making this sound more like a muscle car?  I hear the TTI system with Dynomax mufflers sounds pretty mild but compared to what?  I hear bad things about Flowbastards in the performance department. 

I plan on adding a cam/intake/carb in the future so should I look into headers at this time? 

thanks!

I'd like to hear some others chime in on the issue of headers on a, mostly, street machine.   I've had headers on a car and in normal street performance situations I didn't get a lot of seat-of-the-pants satisfaction.  If the car already has HP exhaust then I don't think there is much to be gained on the street.  If you really want to make a diff on the street then step up to a steeper rear end gear ratio.

I would install a new intake as a first step.   Fairly easy to do, lots if choices, and an aluminum intake will take about 20lbs off the front of the car.  Next; a carb but again, not too big.  Just guessing but something around 700-750 CFM would be able to support 400-450 HP and still be very streetable.    No opinion on cams except the old caution about Idle and low end torque issues.

Once you get into the high CFM carbs and big cams you're really not talking a street car, maybe a street/strip at least, and more difficult to take on cruises and rallies..

I have a nice Edelbrock DP4B that I'm going to install at a later date.  It doesn't have provisions for a heat activated choke so I'll need to upgrade the carb at the same time.  Do I have an easy option to swap carbs to increase performance?  I have the stock AVS which is restored and runs OK but I've heard modern carbs have better atomization, etc.  The car currently has 3.23 gears and I'd like to still take it down the freeway so I think 3.73 is as steep as I'll take it.  I think I can afford some more cam without needing a high stall converter. 

I am with Green 69 R/T on the stock HP manifolds.  On a pretty stock 383 if you went with headers maybe a extra 5 HP. My self, I love the sound of Hemi Mufflers. Here is mine.

http://s83.photobucket.com/user/cudaken/media/She%20Lives/Best_zps43c94301.mp4.html

But there is a small cam in her.  OK, way to big of a cam.

Till you add a good sizes cam, I would stick with the stock HP manifolds. A 3 inch exhaust pipes will make it a little louder. Why not try a pair of cheap glass packs?

My self, I prefer something a little quieter and will stick with my Hemi Mufflers.   

Far as the DB4 Intake?  I run one on my 383 70 Cuda. Cuda has stock HP cam, DB4, 750 Holley, Headers OK they where on the Cuda when I bought her MSD 6 AL, Ram Air air cleaner Hood is not a ram air hood, I just love the looks with a K&N filter, electric pump. nasty 727, stock converter and 3:23 gears. Only time I ran her on the strip I ran 14.38. Not bad for not trying. It is a blast to drive.

Cuda Ken 

[1974dodgecharger]

I have hooker comp headers, rpm heads, 3 inch back to flowbastards. Cick on for video.

[firefighter3931]

The 2.5in exhaust is fine with a mild 383. I wouldn't be in any rush to install different pipes at this point. 

I really like the Dynomax UltraFlow mufflers. A pair of those will give you that nice musclecar sound you're looking for. 


Ron

[cougs]

The 2.5in exhaust is fine with a mild 383. I wouldn't be in any rush to install different pipes at this point. 

I really like the Dynomax UltraFlow mufflers. A pair of those will give you that nice musclecar sound you're looking for. 


Ron

Thanks Ron! 

Now that I have you in the thread, can I ask your opinion on small (ish) tube full-length headers on a stock HP 383?  Worth it now, or wait for Cam/Intake/carb upgrades?

[cougs]

I have hooker comp headers, rpm heads, 3 inch back to flowbastards. Cick on for video.

Sounds great!  What cam are you running?  Is this a 383?

[1974dodgecharger]

Yup 383, khb pistons but with a 509 cam.  I been told i need to upgrade that cam to get more power from my build up.

[firefighter3931]

The 2.5in exhaust is fine with a mild 383. I wouldn't be in any rush to install different pipes at this point. 

I really like the Dynomax UltraFlow mufflers. A pair of those will give you that nice musclecar sound you're looking for. 


Ron

Thanks Ron! 

Now that I have you in the thread, can I ask your opinion on small (ish) tube full-length headers on a stock HP 383?  Worth it now, or wait for Cam/Intake/carb upgrades?

With a stock 383 the headers won't make much difference if any at all.....maybe 10hp ? Good flowing exhaust is the key and mufflers are a big part of that equasion. The Ultraflow is a straight-thru design and offers very little restriction. They are not too loud at all so don't be afraid of a non-baffled muffler.

I had a buddy install a set on his car when he was revamping the exhaust system and he has since went from headers back to HP manifolds and the car actually sounds deeper....very nice. This was on a mild build 440. He has said that there is no loss of power that he can feel on the "Butt dyno" 

The key to making a manifold exhaust system work is selecting the "right" cam profile to work properly with a restrictive ex manifold. Wide LSA with short overlap works best.

If you decide that you want to keep the HP manifolds it's not a huge deal on a street car. It can still run very well but cam selection is critical to tie the whole package together 

At this point i'd just install the Ultraflows and see how you like it. The mufflers alone will provide improvements in performance and sound. 


Ron

[cougs]

The 2.5in exhaust is fine with a mild 383. I wouldn't be in any rush to install different pipes at this point. 

I really like the Dynomax UltraFlow mufflers. A pair of those will give you that nice musclecar sound you're looking for. 


Ron

Thanks Ron! 

Now that I have you in the thread, can I ask your opinion on small (ish) tube full-length headers on a stock HP 383?  Worth it now, or wait for Cam/Intake/carb upgrades?

With a stock 383 the headers won't make much difference if any at all.....maybe 10hp ? Good flowing exhaust is the key and mufflers are a big part of that equasion. The Ultraflow is a straight-thru design and offers very little restriction. They are not too loud at all so don't be afraid of a non-baffled muffler.

I had a buddy install a set on his car when he was revamping the exhaust system and he has since went from headers back to HP manifolds and the car actually sounds deeper....very nice. This was on a mild build 440. He has said that there is no loss of power that he can feel on the "Butt dyno" 

The key to making a manifold exhaust system work is selecting the "right" cam profile to work properly with a restrictive ex manifold. Wide LSA with short overlap works best.

If you decide that you want to keep the HP manifolds it's not a huge deal on a street car. It can still run very well but cam selection is critical to tie the whole package together 

At this point i'd just install the Ultraflows and see how you like it. The mufflers alone will provide improvements in performance and sound. 


Ron

Ron,
Thanks for the input!  I'm going to order a couple Ultra Flo mufflers and see how I like the sound. 

What cam do you recommend for a 383 with a DP4B intake, HP manifolds, stock stall converter, and 3.23 gears? My car currently has the stock magnum cam.  Can I get any benefit by upgrading the cam without upgrading the torque converter or rear end?  Thanks!

[firefighter3931]

Ron,
Thanks for the input!  I'm going to order a couple Ultra Flo mufflers and see how I like the sound. 

What cam do you recommend for a 383 with a DP4B intake, HP manifolds, stock stall converter, and 3.23 gears? My car currently has the stock magnum cam.  Can I get any benefit by upgrading the cam without upgrading the torque converter or rear end?  Thanks!

You're welcome Cougs 

There is a nice off the shelf grind made by Crower that works in your type of application. The PN is : 32242
http://www.crower.com/index.php/mopar-350-440-b-compu-pro-hydraulic-cam-271-hdp.html

I've recommended this cam to a few members who built mild 383 street combos using HP manifolds. I know Bull has his car up and running and i believe he posted a sound clip ?

The HDP271 will work fine with the HP manifolds....it's a 112*lsa split pattern grind that works great with stock cylinder heads. It would be a nice improvement vs the factory HP cam  It will also be compatible with the stock converter and 3.23 gears out back. 


Ron

[heyoldguy]

Here are back to back dyno runs on a stock low compression (7.5:1) 440, 1st with stock HP manifolds and then with headers.

RPM.............Cast iron HP.............headers....gain

2500...............196 HP...................203......+7
2600...............200.......................209......+9
2700...............205.......................214......+9
2800...............215.......................223......+8
2900...............221.......................231......+10
3000...............230.......................239......+9
3100...............236.......................246......+10
3200...............244.......................254......+10
3300...............252.......................260......+8
3400...............255.......................263......+8
3500...............257.......................266......+9
3600...............265.......................269......+4
3700...............264.......................272......+8
3800...............269.......................272......+3
3900...............267.......................279......+12
4000...............269.......................280......+11
4100...............276.......................285......+9
4200...............275.......................285......+10
4300...............276.......................285......+9
4400...............270.......................287......+17
4500...............265.......................281......+16
4600...............264.......................278......+14
4700...............258.......................278......+20
4800...............250.......................272......+22
4900...............250.......................259......+9
5000...............238.......................257......+19
5100...............241.......................255......+14
5200...............233.......................244......+11
5300...............222.......................237......+15
5400...............216.......................230......+14
5500...............207.......................223......+16

[cougs]

Ron,
Thanks for the input!  I'm going to order a couple Ultra Flo mufflers and see how I like the sound. 

What cam do you recommend for a 383 with a DP4B intake, HP manifolds, stock stall converter, and 3.23 gears? My car currently has the stock magnum cam.  Can I get any benefit by upgrading the cam without upgrading the torque converter or rear end?  Thanks!

You're welcome Cougs 

There is a nice off the shelf grind made by Crower that works in your type of application. The PN is : 32242
http://www.crower.com/index.php/mopar-350-440-b-compu-pro-hydraulic-cam-271-hdp.html

I've recommended this cam to a few members who built mild 383 street combos using HP manifolds. I know Bull has his car up and running and i believe he posted a sound clip ?

The HDP271 will work fine with the HP manifolds....it's a 112*lsa split pattern grind that works great with stock cylinder heads. It would be a nice improvement vs the factory HP cam  It will also be compatible with the stock converter and 3.23 gears out back. 


Ron

Thanks Ron.  I'll look into the cam!

[myk]

Here are back to back dyno runs on a stock low compression (7.5:1) 440, 1st with stock HP manifolds and then with headers.

RPM.............Cast iron HP.............headers....gain

2500...............196 HP...................203......+7
2600...............200.......................209......+9
2700...............205.......................214......+9
2800...............215.......................223......+8
2900...............221.......................231......+10
3000...............230.......................239......+9
3100...............236.......................246......+10
3200...............244.......................254......+10
3300...............252.......................260......+8
3400...............255.......................263......+8
3500...............257.......................266......+9
3600...............265.......................269......+4
3700...............264.......................272......+8
3800...............269.......................272......+3
3900...............267.......................279......+12
4000...............269.......................280......+11
4100...............276.......................285......+9
4200...............275.......................285......+10
4300...............276.......................285......+9
4400...............270.......................287......+17
4500...............265.......................281......+16
4600...............264.......................278......+14
4700...............258.......................278......+20
4800...............250.......................272......+22
4900...............250.......................259......+9
5000...............238.......................257......+19
5100...............241.......................255......+14
5200...............233.......................244......+11
5300...............222.......................237......+15
5400...............216.......................230......+14
5500...............207.......................223......+16

In regards to headers, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but that looks like a noticeable improvement overall and therefore a worthwhile 'mod to me. 

As for the Flowmasters, I'm not sure about the musclecar/Charger side of the world, but when I was heavily into F-body's Flowmaster's generally made the best sound, and even though they weren't the best flowing, the difference between Flowmaster and more freely flowing mufflers was negligible.  In other words, run what you want to, the loss of HP won't be that drastic and it will probably be worth it, especially if you love the Flowmaster sound...

[66chargertoy]

Hey cougs, just going to add my two cents here. If you have the HP exhaust already set up on the car, keep them. I had the headers for a while and simply did not like them. Burnt to many plug boots for my taste, pain in the ass with the starter. Swapped in a set of HP exhaust and like Ron mentioned, no noticeable difference from the butt dyno. Now with the money you saved by not buying a set of headers, get that cam that Ron suggested .That's the one I installed in my 440. A nice rumble to it, but not to radical. Slap in that Edelbrock DP4B ASAP. Now as far as carbs go, it all depends on how much you are willing to spend time in setting it up. Are you really hung up on getting one with a choke Again, just an opinion here, but Ron steered me towards the Proform race series carbs (no choke) and very impressed. Get a bung welded on your exhaust and beg, borrow or steal a wideband air/fuel ratio analog gauge in order to properly set the whole thing up. The 3.23 are just a nice all around gear. Again, it's all up to you on what you want from your car
Denis

[myk]

   If you buy the "right" headers you won't have to worry about burning your plug boots (TTi, Doug's).  Besides, how much does a good pair of HP manifolds cost you anyway?  I'm not talking about rusted out pieces of junk from e-gouge, but OE, quality pieces that you would actually WANT to hang off of your motor?  A few hundred?  Well that's how much a set of quality, good fitting Doug's headers will run you.  As for the starter install difficulty?  We're not talking about having sex with Kate Upton, we're talking about working on cars-no one said the latter would be easy...

[cougs]

Hey cougs, just going to add my two cents here. If you have the HP exhaust already set up on the car, keep them. I had the headers for a while and simply did not like them. Burnt to many plug boots for my taste, pain in the ass with the starter. Swapped in a set of HP exhaust and like Ron mentioned, no noticeable difference from the butt dyno. Now with the money you saved by not buying a set of headers, get that cam that Ron suggested .That's the one I installed in my 440. A nice rumble to it, but not to radical. Slap in that Edelbrock DP4B ASAP. Now as far as carbs go, it all depends on how much you are willing to spend time in setting it up. Are you really hung up on getting one with a choke Again, just an opinion here, but Ron steered me towards the Proform race series carbs (no choke) and very impressed. Get a bung welded on your exhaust and beg, borrow or steal a wideband air/fuel ratio analog gauge in order to properly set the whole thing up. The 3.23 are just a nice all around gear. Again, it's all up to you on what you want from your car
Denis

Thanks Denis, I think the cam is going to be the way to go.  I'm looking forward to having a cam that lopes.  Making a decision on the carb has been tough for me.  The AVS I have is restored and the car runs well for the most part except for a fuel bowl boiling issue I have in hot weather and I like having the original carb.  Will a different carb be less prone to boiling fuel in the bowls?   Will upgrading the carb increase power?  Is it possible to change an AVS to an electric choke? I really like having the fast idle in cold weather.  If I can go with an electric choke I will block the heat crossover.

[green69rt]

For boiling in the carb, try a carb spacer.  It will help to insulate the carb from the engine heat.  Also look at the fuel line and try to keep it as far away from the engine as you can,  a real problem but do what you can.  Do you have a working fuel return line?

[cougs]

I have the insulator which has helped somewhat. 

[firefighter3931]

If I was picking a carb for that mild 383 build something along the lines of a 650cfm proform street series carb would get my vote. It is available with an electric choke as well. 


Ron

[cougs]

If I was picking a carb for that mild 383 build something along the lines of a 650cfm proform street series carb would get my vote. It is available with an electric choke as well. 


Ron

I'm torn between the Proform Street Series and the Edelbrock Thunder AVS carb. All I can tell is the Proform has mechanical secondaries and the AVS is vacuum actuated.  What do you like about the Proform carb?  Thanks!

[firefighter3931]

If I was picking a carb for that mild 383 build something along the lines of a 650cfm proform street series carb would get my vote. It is available with an electric choke as well. 


Ron

I'm torn between the Proform Street Series and the Edelbrock Thunder AVS carb. All I can tell is the Proform has mechanical secondaries and the AVS is vacuum actuated.  What do you like about the Proform carb?  Thanks!

I've found the Proform/Holley carbs easier to tune and are more responsive to throttle position changes. 

I also like that the fuel bowls are on the ends of the main body which helps with vapor lock. A Carter/Eddy carb holds the fuel within the main body so more heat is transferred to the fuel. 


Ron

[cougs]

If I was picking a carb for that mild 383 build something along the lines of a 650cfm proform street series carb would get my vote. It is available with an electric choke as well. 


Ron

I'm torn between the Proform Street Series and the Edelbrock Thunder AVS carb. All I can tell is the Proform has mechanical secondaries and the AVS is vacuum actuated.  What do you like about the Proform carb?  Thanks!

I've found the Proform/Holley carbs easier to tune and are more responsive to throttle position changes. 

I also like that the fuel bowls are on the ends of the main body which helps with vapor lock. A Carter/Eddy carb holds the fuel within the main body so more heat is transferred to the fuel. 


Ron

Sweet!  Thanks Ron!

[Mebsuta]

Okay I want a Proform now. 

[cougs]

Do proform carbs have the correct kick down linkage, etc?

[fy469rtse]

Ron's got me looking at the preforms too , cant make up my mind to go with one of there street carb's or go full tilt and the race item, which allows me to go upsize to the 950

[firefighter3931]

Do proform carbs have the correct kick down linkage, etc?

Quick answer is no 

When installing a Holley/Proform style carb you need to purchase the Holley mopar throttle linkage adapter pn 20-7 and install it to the throttle lever. The kd pin can be removed from your existing carb and transferred over to the 20-7 adapter & then the kd linkage will work. 


Ron

[69chargerboy]

TTI with Dynomax gets my vote.

Me too! I love mine! Sounds awesome!  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVel-QXcyv0