Ford Talladega Question

[Highbanked Hauler]

Since clone building seems to be on the increase the last couple of years I got to thinking about the competition and what they are up against.We have at least 3 aero parts suppliers,what do the Ford boys have to do if they want to build a TorinoTalladega.Before anyone says(who gives a damn)remember they are the reason our cars were built to begin with.

[daytonalo]

SOUNDS LIKE SOMEONE WANTS TO JUMP SHIP [ LIKE TONY SOPRANO SAID TONIGHT [ YOU CANT LEAVE YOUR FAMILY]

[Blown70]

SOUNDS LIKE SOMEONE WANTS TO JUMP SHIP [ LIKE TONY SOPRANO SAID TONIGHT [ YOU CANT LEAVE YOUR FAMILY]

Well Uncle June shot him he was family.....   Crazy but family

[Highbanked Hauler]

 I AM THE ORIGINAL OWNER OF A 69 C500 so easy boys.My roots go deeper than most.

[Ghoste]

I have a very close friend who has a 69 Fairlane Cobra 428 SCJ car.  He belongs to some Fairlane club and gets a bunch of catalogs from different Ford intermediate specialty places so I'll run it by him and find out.  I've glanced through the catalogs a bunch of times because they are sitting out at the shop we share.  I know they can get things like the "T" emblems and the hood release cable and so on.  I'm not sure about aftermarket nose caps though.  I think the Ford aero cars are an undiscovered secret by the muscle car fans.  Ford had put most of their musclecar push into the Mustang back in the day and I think that still shoes it's head today.

[Crazy Larry]

hey, was the Ford talladega a rare street automobile back in 1969?

I seem to see more Daytonas - and 1970 superbirds on sale than Ford Torino Talladega Cobras - and we know how many Daytonas and Superbirds were made.

Maybe I just haven't been looking but it seems that there wasn't as many put on the street.

[hotrod98]

Since clone building seems to be on the increase the last couple of years I got to thinking about the competition and what they are up against.We have at least 3 aero parts suppliers,what do the Ford boys have to do if they want to build a TorinoTalladega.Before anyone says(who gives a damn)remember they are the reason our cars were built to begin with.

I think that the true wing car guys have a lot of respect for the ford wing cars. They are brethren in every sense. I hope to see more threads regarding them here. I know very little about them and would love to hear stories about their manufacture and their racing experiences and would love to see pics as well.

[Highbanked Hauler]

hey, was the Ford talladega a rare street automobile back in 1969?

I seem to see more Daytonas - and 1970 superbirds on sale than Ford Torino Talladega Cobras - and we know how many Daytonas and Superbirds were made.

Maybe I just haven't been looking but it seems that there wasn't as many put on the street.

Ford had to build 500 or so Talladegas just like Chrysler had to build 500s and Daytonas to get them on the track. Like the C500s they don't have a stand out profile like the winged cars do.Correct me if I am wrong, but I think they had extentions on the fenders and a panel in front of the hood slanted down to meet the grill along with a narrowed rear bumper (IN FRONT) tipped forward to meet the bottom of the grill.

[hemi68charger]

According to a Ford site,, Just 754 were reported built including prototypes.

http://www.fordfairlane.com/talladega.html

Troy

[Aero426]

Jim Plimpton in Milwaukee offers most of what you need to do a Talladega or Cyclone Spoiler II front clip in fiberglass.  To do the conversion,  you need, two fenders and the filler panel in front of the hood that bolts to the fenders.  The headlight extensions internally are different.   The front bumper is a modified Torino rear bumper.

The most difficult thing to handle, is that the rocker panels on the Aero Fords are rerolled to a different shape to allow the race car body to be lowered an additional inch on the race chassis.   So the back of the fender does not meet the stock rocker panel perfectly.  You cover this up with a lower chrome rocker moulding.   

There also is a fellow in Florida who has the original dies for the fender extensions and can make them in steel.   

After all of this, the other thing to consider is that neither of the Aero Fords have picked up in price anything close to the wing cars, or even the Charger 500.  While they are very rare cars and tough to find in nice shape, you can buy a decent Talladega or Spoiler II inexpensively enough that going through the hassle of building a clone might not be worth it.   A DSAC member had a nice Spoiler II advertised under $20k and it sold. He also had a rust free Spoiler II needing resto for $7500 and it sold fast.  With the 428, the Talladegas are a little more.   But they have not felt the price madness the rest of the hobby has - which isn't a bad thing for the true enthusiast.

[Aero426]

When we talk about the re-rolled rocker panel the Aero Fords used, here is the cross section. 

Note that the bottom right of the production Fairline rocker indicated by the dashed line is "gone" on the Talladega re-stamped rocker.

The race teams cut off the extra long pinchweld lip at the bottom and this allowed the entire body to be one inch lower on the track, yet still maintain the proper ground clearance per NASCAR rules.   

[Aero426]

I think that the true wing car guys have a lot of respect for the ford wing cars. They are brethren in every sense. I hope to see more threads regarding them here. I know very little about them and would love to hear stories about their manufacture and their racing experiences and would love to see pics as well.

This is what it's all about , baby. 

[hemigeno]

When we talk about the re-rolled rocker panel the Aero Fords used, here is the cross section. 

Note that the bottom right of the production Fairline rocker indicated by the dashed line is "gone" on the Talladega re-stamped rocker.

The race teams cut off the extra long pinchweld lip at the bottom and this allowed the entire body to be one inch lower on the track, yet still maintain the proper ground clearance per NASCAR rules.   

Hey Al (HighbankedHauler) - this is the diagram I was referring to back when we discussed the Talladega/SpoilerII rocker panels on this thread:

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,9019.0.html

Thanks for posting that, Doug!

[Chargen69]

hey, was the Ford talladega a rare street automobile back in 1969?

I seem to see more Daytonas - and 1970 superbirds on sale than Ford Torino Talladega Cobras - and we know how many Daytonas and Superbirds were made.

Maybe I just haven't been looking but it seems that there wasn't as many put on the street.

thats because furd's rust even faster than mopars   

[BigBlockSam]

yea i dig those Talladega's there on my top 10 cars to own. a couple of yrs ago i was chasing one  on ebay. it was just a body shell and it went for close to $6000. i got out bid. there not as expensive as the mopar aero cars and they got great bigblocks in them.  Rene

[Highbanked Hauler]

I am impressed,so with the short rocker you bring the floor up inside the car and cut off the leftovers and you still pass tech.inspection and are an inch closer to the track Hemigeno I remember the thread that we were discussing the rocker issue when i said I am thinking of bringing the front rails up to drop the body at the cowl.

[Ghoste]

Backing up a few posts, I think you see fewer Fords because as mentioned, they lack the visual impact of the wing cars.  Personally, I don't think they are even as noticeable as the 500.  The nose extension is very subtle.  The Ford's could be had with a big block but they only came in white, dark maroon, or dark blue and all came with bench interiors.  The Mercs only came in white and couldn't be had with any engine but a 351 smallblock.
No wild striping or bold external id badges.  You may seen more than you think but never gave them a second glance Crazy Larry.

[Aero426]

Backing up a few posts, I think you see fewer Fords because as mentioned, they lack the visual impact of the wing cars.  Personally, I don't think they are even as noticeable as the 500.  The nose extension is very subtle.  The Ford's could be had with a big block but they only came in white, dark maroon, or dark blue and all came with bench interiors.  The Mercs only came in white and couldn't be had with any engine but a 351 smallblock.
No wild striping or bold external id badges.  You may seen more than you think but never gave them a second glance Crazy Larry.

Yep.  The Talladegas are extremely understated.  Kind of like what the original Road Runner concept was to be.  The Spoiler II is definitely the best "looker" of the group with the stripes and paint, but they left out the big block.   Although it's no 440 Magnum,  the 290 horse 351W 4-bbl is not what I would call a dog either.   

[Aero426]

I am impressed,so with the short rocker you bring the floor up inside the car and cut off the leftovers and you still pass tech.inspection and are an inch closer to the track

Al, that is exactly the case.  When you look at a street Talladega next time, get down and look at how long the pinchweld is.   It's double the size of your Charger 500.  For NASCAR, they just whacked that off and lowered the body.   Ford internal documents indicate that this was a result of new NASCAR side template that was implemented late in 1968 and made them raise their body up 2".  So it was a way to get some of that back. 

[Highbanked Hauler]

Soooo you couldn't get a 428 in a Talladega? Back at that time I was looking at the Torino GT that had a 428 cu.but I  went and got a Charger because it had a 440 cu. not knowing what a 500 was.

[Ghoste]

The 428 was the only engine choice for the Talladega.  A C6 automatic with column shift was the only transmission choice.
It is the Mercury where you couldn't get the big block.  Cyclone Spoiler II was the Mercury version of the Talladega.  It came in a Cale Yarborough edition and a Dan Gurney edition.  Aside from the name decal, the only difference was that one was white with a red roof and the other was white with a blue roof but I forget which was which.

[BigBlockSam]

nice

[Headrope]

Holy crap. A guy down the road was selling one of those last year for cheap. I thought it was just some sort of hot rod/altered car.

[BigBlockSam]

the front headlights remind me of a 69 charger 500

[Brock Samson]

  alot cheaper then a comparative 500 or tona...

  http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Mercury-Cyclone-DAN-GURNEY-SPECIAL_W0QQitemZ4621363756QQcategoryZ6882QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


nother..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Mercury-Cyclone-DAN-GURNEY-SPECIAL_W0QQitemZ4621363756QQcategoryZ6882QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

so dump this lumpa coal in one of those bad boys... 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/69-70-Boss-429-NOS-Nascar-Engine_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6763QQitemZ8046084006QQrdZ1

not too bad a price for all three compared to some single chargers i seen recently..

[Aero426]

Holy crap. A guy down the road was selling one of those last year for cheap. I thought it was just some sort of hot rod/altered car.

Kind of like that wierd looking '69 Charger with no hideaway headlights and fastback rear glass.   

[Aero426]

  alot cheaper then a comparative 500 or tona...

  http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Mercury-Cyclone-DAN-GURNEY-SPECIAL_W0QQitemZ4621363756QQcategoryZ6882QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

That car on Ebay is a W-nose Cyclone Spoiler, which is also a very rare car.   We haven't talked about them yet, so here goes...

In addition to the aero nose Cyclone Spoiler II,  there also was a version offered on the standard body.  That car, called the Cyclone Spoiler, or "W-nose" for the shape of it's front profile, has the stock Montego/Cyclone sheet metal.  So there is no aero nose, or sectioned rocker panels .  But it has the same paint treatment AND...  it also was available in any available driveline combination.  So you could get it with up to a 428 Ram Air, C6 or 4-speed trans, and Traction-Lok rear axle.  You also could get buckets, and a console, none of which came on the NASCAR edition.

W-nose Spoilers are very rare, and it is thought that there are less made than the NASCAR edition Spoiler II.

So to review:

Talladegas - apx 754 made,  available only with 428, C6, 3.25 limited slip rear end.  Only available in blue, white, maroon.   Blue is the rarest production color.   Maroon is the most common.  About 250 are known to survive in some condition.

Cyclone Spoiler II.  503 made,  218 were Dan Gurney Specials (white and blue) , 285 Cale Yarborough (white and red) Specials.  Available only with 351W 4-bbl,  FMX trans, 3.25 open rear axle.   About 165 are known.   

Cyclone Spoiler (W-Nose),  production not exactly known.  Dan or Cale Special, Offered with any Cyclone available engine/trans, axle combo.  Only about 80 are known.  No NASCAR aero sheet metal.

Here is a photo of all three together.  The Talladega and Spoiler Registry book is still available through Daytona-Superbird Auto Club, and has lots of information on the cars and what makes them special. 

[BigBlockSam]

thank you DougSchellinger, i've always dug these cars and i like learning more about them. i like the ones with the aero nose more than the w nose ones but there cool too.  Rene

[Ghoste]

A rarer mid size Mercury in 69 belonged to a friend of mine.  It was a 69 Comet formal roof with 428 SCJ and no ram air.  Less than a dozen made but that wanders firmly to the drag racing spectrum and away from NASCAR.

[Highbanked Hauler]

Looking at the Talladega I would say it is narrower than  the Charger by an inch or two unless it is just the nose panel.

[Aero426]

Looking at the Talladega I would say it is narrower than  the Charger by an inch or two unless it is just the nose panel.

Not sure of the actual measurement, but the Ford fenders do taper in a little bit.  And you also get a little downforce push off the nose filler panel.   There is one photo I can't find at the moment that is a close up shot of the noses of a Bobby Allison's 500 next to a Donnie Allison's Talladega on pit road, and the difference in the stance is almost alarming.   

[Highbanked Hauler]

The picture I saw was a Charger and a Torinor comming off a banked corner together and the Charger looked a lot wider.