New spark plugs, more power

[Firetodd]

Thought I'd share. I talked with Ron previously and he suggested NGk xr5 plugs. I had noticed that my 383 had seemed sluggish and with less power recently. In fact, I could no longer smoke my tires.  this concerned me.

So today I picked up some NGk 3332 XR5 plugs and swapped them for my Autolite plugs. My old plugs looked brown and not fouled. Well NAPA only had 6, and had to order in the other two. Anyway, I swapped them and laid two 30 foot rubber marks on my residential street that my wife does not appreciate as much as I do.

[firefighter3931]

I swapped them and laid two 30 foot rubber marks on my residential street that my wife does not appreciate as much as I do.

Are we having fun yet ?

It's allways nice when you unleash newfound power......tuning, tuning and more tuning 

Good work Todd 



Ron

[hemi68charger]

Very nice Ron.  ....... maybe I'll get a set for the ole' Hemi when I fire her up for the first time soon.......   

[Firetodd]

Ron,
I ordered in the Brad Penn 20/50 oil and the NAPA gold filter as well. They are sitting in my garage waiting for me to change the oil. Can't wait to do that as well! Yesterday was 92 outside and she really is running hot. My son was uncomfortable as I turned the heat on to try to bring temp down a bit.

Next week I'll post pics of my old plugs and the group can chime in as to whether I'm perhaps running a bit lean.

[Firetodd]

I changed the oil and filter today. I did make a little mess getting that filter out! It was 91 today, so the test drive was fun!

[c00nhunterjoe]

Makes me almost want to swap out my autolites....lol

[green69rt]

I don't know the diff between the two plugs but the effect of a longer electrode is to increase the advance as the spark is further into the combustion chamber.  Maybe the new plugs are longer.  These are tiny distances but they do matter.  Maybe you need a tuneup on the distributor as well??

[c00nhunterjoe]

I cant see how a simple plug change can result it that much of a horsepower increase, given there was nothing wrong with the old ones.there had to be another underlying issue.

[cudaken]

Ron or Todd, any details as far as why the plugs woke up the Mopar?

Far as prices, I just goggled them and highest prices was $3.50 a plug and lowest was $1.45. For a $1.45 it be worth trying after I get some details.

http://www.stylintrucks.com/parts/ngk_v-power_spark_plug_-_xr5/23558/ngkng3332-.aspx#

Link to lowest prices.

Cuda Ken

[billssuperbird]

I did the same in my 440.   thanks Ron.

[firefighter3931]

I changed the oil and filter today. I did make a little mess getting that filter out! It was 91 today, so the test drive was fun!

Good stuff Todd....your engine is now well protected with the BP lube & Napa Gold (Wix) oil filter. Best stuff out there for our flat tappet engines....bar none 

Ron or Todd, any details as far as why the plugs woke up the Mopar?

Ken, the NGK plugs are fantastic....they just flat out work.  My guess is that Todd probably had too cold of a plug in his engine. Increasing heat in the chamber will certainly affect power production. The results indicate we made a step in the right direction. Gap, condition and heat range all affect performance.  Todd had recently installed a Firecore ignition system and adjusted it to where i had recommended and the results were an improvement but not as much as i would have expected. The last piece of the puzzle was the sparkplug(s) and he nailed it with the XR5's 

I did the same and my 440.  thanks Ron.

You're welcome Bill....the "right" plug and some tuning can make a huge difference. Good to hear your car is running better 



Ron

[myk]

Hmm....I've got Bosch's in mine-couldn't hurt to try out the NGK's.  Is there a ballpark number for plug gap and heat range we should first try out?

[firefighter3931]

Hmm....I've got Bosch's in mine-couldn't hurt to try out the NGK's.  Is there a ballpark number for plug gap and heat range we should first try out?

Hey Myk,

With the MSD box, you have lots of firepower to light the flame.  With pump gas compression i like to gap them at .040 which will work fine with the 6 series box. The XR5 matches up well with that compression ratio.

It wouldn't hurt to check the resistance on your ignition wires just to make sure all the available spark energy is making it's way to the sparkplugs. An ohm meter is your friend. I like to see less than 250 ohms/ft on ignition leads.

You can also ground an ignition wire to the engine and crank it over observing the spark. The color of that spark will tell you a lot. A nice blueish/white spark show's a healthy ignition system. A dull orange/yellowish spark indicates excessive resistance.


Ron

[Firetodd]

Here is a picture of my old plugs:

[firefighter3931]

Todd,

What is the # and manufacturer on those plugs ?

Looks rich to me and possibly the wrong heat range  If the heat range is too cold the plugs will foul so it's not necessarily a jetting issue. 


Ron

[Firetodd]

My old plugs and the one in the pictures were AC Delco #7 rapid fire platinum.

[firefighter3931]

My old plugs and the one in the pictures were AC Delco #7 rapid fire platinum.

Hi Todd,

I had to do some research on that plug....not much information out there but i did find one GM forum that was discussing heat range parameters with the rapidfire's.

Seems like the concensus was that a #5 was the preferred choice for pump gas type street builds. The #7 appears to be an incorrect choice according to that information and based on the improved performance with the new NGK XR5's i would have to agree. 


Ron

[johnnycharger]

Here is a picture of my old plugs:

This is the same condition my Bosch platinum plugs are in. I have a stockish 383. Should I expect a good improvement if I switch to these NGKS ?

[PlainfieldCharger]

Curious, if the plugs pictured are running rich....will the replacement of the plugs cure this? Is this a carb adjustment or re-jet?

[firefighter3931]

This is the same condition my Bosch platinum plugs are in. I have a stockish 383. Should I expect a good improvement if I switch to these NGKS ?

Johnny,

It certainly wouldn't hurt to try a set of NGK's....i would do it 


Ron

[firefighter3931]

Curious, if the plugs pictured are running rich....will the replacement of the plugs cure this? Is this a carb adjustment or re-jet?

PFCharger ;

It could be an incorrect heat range plug, rich mixture or weak ignition system....or a combination of all three. In Todd's case we knew it wasn't ignition related and he had the carb nicely dialed in so that left the sparkplugs. 


Ron

[c00nhunterjoe]

Well i typically change my plugs yearly... do i need to? Nah, but its habit.... havnt swapped them out this yeat so i think i may give the ngk's a try.

[PlainfieldCharger]

I know I am burning rich, I feel I have things closer as it is running really well. I did put the NGK in it but have not removed them to check how she's burning now. Just looking for my next step, if needed....do the hi performance engines still burn the plug  to a nice tan color?

[firefighter3931]

Well i typically change my plugs yearly... do i need to? Nah, but its habit.... havnt swapped them out this yeat so i think i may give the ngk's a try.

What plugs do you normally run ?  Are they staying clean ? 

The XR5's seem to work very well with pump gas compression street/strip builds from my experience 


Ron

[firefighter3931]

I know I am burning rich, I feel I have things closer as it is running really well. I did put the NGK in it but have not removed them to check how she's burning now. Just looking for my next step, if needed....do the hi performance engines still burn the plug  to a nice tan color?

Time to pull a few and have a look see 

Often the idle mixture will be too rich. I use a vacuum guage and adjust for max vacuum and that ususally dials the idle circuit in just fine.

Ideally you want to see a little color ; light brown/tan is what i shoot for. 


Ron

[Stegs]

im going to napa to get a set for my car....keep the old ones around just in case

[myk]

Yup, I just bought a set from Summit.




Lol, look at all of us rushing to get instant-horsepower to our cars...

[johnnycharger]

Thanks Ron!!!! I just ordered them! 

[c00nhunterjoe]

Well i typically change my plugs yearly... do i need to? Nah, but its habit.... havnt swapped them out this yeat so i think i may give the ngk's a try.

What plugs do you normally run ?  Are they staying clean ? 

The XR5's seem to work very well with pump gas compression street/strip builds from my experience 


Ron

I run Factory replacement autolites. 85's if memory serves me.Nothing fancy here. They are clean. Lots of tweaking and tuning was done to get everything in order. I run no choke and she fires right up in any weather and is drivable, it will idle all day long without loading up, plugs are always clean. I doubt in my case that the ngk's will run any different.

[grdprx]

Ron or Todd, any details as far as why the plugs woke up the Mopar?

Far as prices, I just goggled them and highest prices was $3.50 a plug and lowest was $1.45. For a $1.45 it be worth trying after I get some details.

http://www.stylintrucks.com/parts/ngk_v-power_spark_plug_-_xr5/23558/ngkng3332-.aspx#

Link to lowest prices.

Cuda Ken

Thanks for the link!  My order showed up today!

[firefighter3931]

Well i typically change my plugs yearly... do i need to? Nah, but its habit.... havnt swapped them out this yeat so i think i may give the ngk's a try.

What plugs do you normally run ?  Are they staying clean ? 

The XR5's seem to work very well with pump gas compression street/strip builds from my experience 


Ron

I run Factory replacement autolites. 85's if memory serves me.Nothing fancy here. They are clean. Lots of tweaking and tuning was done to get everything in order. I run no choke and she fires right up in any weather and is drivable, it will idle all day long without loading up, plugs are always clean. I doubt in my case that the ngk's will run any different.

Just checked and the 85's cross reference to an XR5 so the heat range is identical. If you do go with the NGK's it'll be interesting to hear how well they work for you. 

From my experience the NGK's seem to stay clean longer and are less prone to fouling. 


Ron

[myk]

NGK's go in tomorrow.  Maybe I'll wear the old Bosch's as body jewelry...

[Stegs]

I installed ngk xr5 plugs last night and the car runs awesome....idles way better and is smoother....as far as performance, butt dyno says its better. I enjoy the smoothness of the motor most, but that could be with fresh oil and filter too


Plugs on a 440 are a pain in the A** to do....drivers side wasn't too bad, passenger side I did from under the car....I don't want to do that again! 


xr5 plugs review from me...I give them a 100% positive review

[myk]

I installed my NGK's right before tonight's cruise.  The 440 is a big motor, but changing them out isn't as bad as it is on my '97 LT1 Camaro.  I will admit that plugs 4 and 6 were a bit of a pain.  In any case, every one of our car's is different, but on my car I felt a definite improvement over the Bosch's that I've had in there for years.  Smoother idle, better throttle response, a little better pull up to the redline.  Plugs are gapped at .040 and they're fed by 8mm Taylor wires from my MP distributor and an ancient MSD6 box.  I just don't get it-how can a spark plug make a difference?

By the way, since we're talking about plugs, these are the Bosch's that I pulled out of the 440.  What are these plugs saying?

 
Plugs 1, 3, 5, 7



Plugs 2, 4, 6, 8

 

[firefighter3931]

 Smoother idle, better throttle response, a little better pull up to the redline.  Plugs are gapped at .040 and they're fed by 8mm Taylor wires from my MP distributor and an ancient MSD6 box.  I just don't get it-how can a spark plug make a difference?

Good stuff Myk  I'm guessing that the old plugs were the wrong heat range but the jetting looks fine. The "right" heat range makes a huge difference. The NGK's just seem to flat out work as long as the heat range is properly selected. 

I installed ngk xr5 plugs last night and the car runs awesome....idles way better and is smoother....as far as performance, butt dyno says its better. I enjoy the smoothness of the motor most, but that could be with fresh oil and filter too


Plugs on a 440 are a pain in the A** to do....drivers side wasn't too bad, passenger side I did from under the car....I don't want to do that again! 


xr5 plugs review from me...I give them a 100% positive review

Not surprised to hear this report. Glad to hear she's running cleaner & stronger 



Ron

[familymopar]

When I first got my 440 Charger, I immediately set about changing the fluids, filter, checking pads/shoes, etc. and also changed out the plugs.  I too went with the same NGK v-power XR5's (mfr part #3332).  I did so many small maintenance things right off the bat that I can't say fully that the plugs made a huge difference, but I certainly feel like they did.  I have been running them for about 2 years now and like them very much.  I do not recall exactly what I gapped them to now but they are running very very well.  I highly recommend as well.

I did get a rev-n-nator at one point and started to have some issues with spark being delivered.  I have wondered if it was a bad combo with the plugs but I honestly doubt it.  I went back to a regular mopar orange box and have had no more problems.

NOTE: Please do not take this post as a bad review of the rev-n-nator.  Their customer service is excellent and all indications are that their products are great.  I have yet to put the work into figuring out what my particular problem was.  I will work on it more in time as I really want the limiter.  I never did even disable the vacuum advance (as recommended but they say often unnecessary).  I don't think that was my problem as the problem was as persistent at idle.  Anyway, not to get off topic but I do not want anyone being turned off of them because of my singular experience that I think may be user error.  Although tapping it with a screwdriver did seem to help.  But that helps everything.

[chargd72]

How are the NGK gr4 plugs for small block?  Anyone running them?

[c00nhunterjoe]

I pulled a few plugs tonight and im up in the air on changing them. Car ru s good with no idle issues. I cant see how changing to ngks will make a difference in my application.

These plugs have a year and a half on them and approx 5000 miles. Lots of idling, 3000 rpm cruising and more then their fair shares of 1/4 mile passes.

[firefighter3931]

Nice coloring on the porcelin, and ground strap....heat range looks good. The base threads are showing slightly rich but i wouldn't be overly concerned. Better a bit rich than too lean. 


Ron

[c00nhunterjoe]

Nice coloring on the porcelin, and ground strap....heat range looks good. The base threads are showing slightly rich but i wouldn't be overly concerned. Better a bit rich than too lean. 


Ron

Yup! I dont want change the jetting any. its pretty happy where its at and im afraid if i drop to 68's i will risk a lean condition when im cruising since i cruise at 3k and full advance....

[don duick]

does anybody know if NGK make an equivalent plug for the aluminium edelbrock heads? I am using NGK BKR6E-11 in a 440 with 750 holley and size 72 jets and 6.5 power valve. My plugs are totally black all over. Don't feel like I am getting the performance I should have.

[firefighter3931]

does anybody know if NGK make an equivalent plug for the aluminium edelbrock heads? I am using NGK BKR6E-11 in a 440 with 750 holley and size 72 jets and 6.5 power valve. My plugs are totally black all over. Don't feel like I am getting the performance I should have.

Don,

I used the NGK BCPR6ES plugs in mine with the 446 ; pump gas compression, RPM heads and big solid cam. Plugs allways stayed clean 

How is your ignition system ? Spark color ?



Ron

[don duick]

thanks for reply Ron, My Ignition system is all MSD - distributor, blaster coil and 6A box  color of spark is blue and orange  very bright, fat and powerful.  When I switched to the MSD there was a  noticeable improvement in power. So I assume it is working well. I will look for the plug you have recommended.

[firefighter3931]

thanks for reply Ron, My Ignition system is all MSD - distributor, blaster coil and 6A box  color of spark is blue and orange  very bright, fat and powerful.  When I switched to the MSD there was a  noticeable improvement in power. So I assume it is working well. I will look for the plug you have recommended.

It sounds like you have a nice strong spark  I too like the 6AL box and have been running the same one for years. 

The heat range on the BCPR6ES plugs is perfect for a pump gas/aluminum head type street build 


Ron

[charge69]

Firefighter3931:  Will this plug (BCPR6ES) also work on an original Iron-head 426 HEMI with a true 11 to 1 compression? MSD Digital 6 ignition, MSD Coil, MSD billet distributor and 8.5mm wires. Strong spark but have fouling issues. Gonna check carb float levels and settings.  Vacuum gauge shows 12 psi and, maybe, a little more with proper adjustment.

This MSD box has a setting that sets the advance at 0 degrees on startup and goes to 15 degrees advance at 800rpm. 35 degrees is the setting for total advance and no pinging on pump gas.

[johnnycharger]

I finally got a free evening to swap the plugs! Thanks for the suggestion Ron and for the link to the inexpensive website Cudaken! 
I haven't taken it for a drive yet but intend to tomorrow evening.  Here is a picture of the Bosch platinum plugs that I did have installed. This is the first time I have seen this....the electrodes are half tan and half dark in each plug  .

[myk]

My Bosch's came out like that as well.  Ideas anyone?

[green69rt]

I finally got a free evening to swap the plugs! Thanks for the suggestion Ron and for the link to the inexpensive website Cudaken! 
I haven't taken it for a drive yet but intend to tomorrow evening.  Here is a picture of the Bosch platinum plugs that I did have installed. This is the first time I have seen this....the electrodes are half tan and half dark in each plug  .

Maybe the side that faces the intake valve gets washed by fuel vapor.  It would be hard to prove unless you made a mark on the spark plug to keep track of its position.

[firefighter3931]

Firefighter3931:  Will this plug (BCPR6ES) also work on an original Iron-head 426 HEMI with a true 11 to 1 compression? MSD Digital 6 ignition, MSD Coil, MSD billet distributor and 8.5mm wires. Strong spark but have fouling issues. Gonna check carb float levels and settings.  Vacuum gauge shows 12 psi and, maybe, a little more with proper adjustment.

This MSD box has a setting that sets the advance at 0 degrees on startup and goes to 15 degrees advance at 800rpm. 35 degrees is the setting for total advance and no pinging on pump gas.

Not sure what plug fits in a hemi but if you give me your current plug part # i'll do some research and come up with an appropriate cross reference to NGK. 

The engine might want more than 15* at idle....each combo is different depending on cam/compression etc...

A rich AFR or too cold of a plug can cause fouling. Weak ignition system will also cause dirty plugs but that should not be an issue with your current setup 


Ron

[charge69]

Forgot to mention:  I am running a one-off CompCams hyd roller cam with these specs" Gross valve lift Intake .596  Exh .577  duration @ .006 tappet lift is 304 for intake & exh.   valve timing a .050  Open Int 14 BTDC  Exh 54 BBDC   Close  Int. 54 ABDC   Exh 14 ATDC

Cam specs for cam installed @ 110.00 intake center line

Duration @ 050  Intake 248   Exh 248 
Lobe lift both  .3800
Lobe separation  110.0

The shop installed Champion RN12YC in it and that is what is still there.

[firefighter3931]

Forgot to mention:  I am running a one-off CompCams hyd roller cam with these specs" Gross valve lift Intake .596  Exh .577  duration @ .006 tappet lift is 304 for intake & exh.   valve timing a .050  Open Int 14 BTDC  Exh 54 BBDC   Close  Int. 54 ABDC   Exh 14 ATDC

Cam specs for cam installed @ 110.00 intake center line

Duration @ 050  Intake 248   Exh 248 
Lobe lift both  .3800
Lobe separation  110.0

The shop installed Champion RN12YC in it and that is what is still there.

I'd give a set of these a try and see how it runs 

http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/ngk-7734



Ron

[charge69]

Ok,  I will put them in and give it a try.  Thanks and I will let you know how it works out!

P.S.   My local O'reilly's has this plug for $2.19 each and they are in stock!

[johnnycharger]

I finally got a free evening to swap the plugs! Thanks for the suggestion Ron and for the link to the inexpensive website Cudaken! 
I haven't taken it for a drive yet but intend to tomorrow evening.  Here is a picture of the Bosch platinum plugs that I did have installed. This is the first time I have seen this....the electrodes are half tan and half dark in each plug  .

Maybe the side that faces the intake valve gets washed by fuel vapor.  It would be hard to prove unless you made a mark on the spark plug to keep track of its position.

Hmmm... that is a good idea.

I took her out for a test drive and it is a great improvement according to the butt dyno! THANKS RON!!!!

[don duick]

mine too 

[billssuperbird]

I took mine out last night it ran great. 

[myk]

I STILL can't believe how effective these plugs are.  I feel and sound like someone trapped in an infomercial for something that couldn't possibly work, but suddenly IT DOES...

[johnnycharger]

I STILL can't believe how effective these plugs are.  I feel and sound like someone trapped in an infomercial for something that couldn't possibly work, but suddenly IT DOES...

That sums it up perfectly!  I think I will have to look for some for my SRT4 to try....

[firefighter3931]

It's nice to hear all these cars are showing some driveability improvements and performance gains 


Makes the hobby a lot more enjoyable allthough the back tires might not be so happy !   



Ron

[74bluecharger440]

Just ordered a set of 8 from Napa they will be in tomorrow AM ..3.77 each Canadian $$$$