How well should the car stop? W/ 4 wheel drums

[XH29N0G]

For those who have 4 wheel drums, can you tell me how you feel driving around.  I have the feeling that I am not going to be able to stop if I need to (because I press the pedal and it is just slow to stop).

I have 245 60 up front and 255 60 rear and when I press on the brakes it just seems to keep going like it is a heavy car. 

When I used to have 215 75 on it, the tires would lock up and I thought the brakes were good.  I had the car restored and I don't know if it is just that the tires are bigger, or if I should be adjusting something to make the brakes work better.

This has me thinking about discs, but my guess is that unless the drums are hot, they should have plenty of stopping power.

[StockMan]

I have a 68 charger with a big block (440), I upgraded to 11 inch drums from the 10s and can stop on a dime now.  The 10s weren't so good, they were quick to fade.
I went with a set of brakes from a 68 Polara (if I can recall, it was quite some time ago), so I have the 2 3/4 inch in the front and I think its 2 1/2s in the rear.
(Just have to drill the front backing plates for the larger bolts)

[XH29N0G]

Thanks, 

I think I have 11 inch all around, so I am puzzled.  I'll start reading.  It just feels like when I am on the highway and want to slow down that the car just wants to keep going.  Maybe when it warms up, I should be more scientific about it and see how long or far it actually takes me to stop.

[twodko]

My car is a '69 BB too that came with factory power drums. With new shoes
and properly adjusted you should have plenty of stopping power and a firm pedal.
Drum brakes require more attention as far as keeping them properly adjusted.
Bumper to bumper commute traffic will def cause the dreaded brake fade.......
scary stuff that.

I just upgraded to a basic disk brake conversion. There is no comparison to
be sure.......disk brakes hella mo beta.  

[A383Wing]

I had issues with some shoes for my cars a while back...they would not stop my car...changed to a different brand of shoe, all is good again

[b5blue]

Almost 20 years with 10" drums no issues except as mentioned like pulling back down from 120mph in a hurry.    Be certain the shoes are radius to the drums, it can take a while to wear in (Seat to the drum.) Until they match/mate braking is reduced. 11" drums are/have a ribbed pattern 10" drums smooth on the outside.   

[Charger-Bodie]

I used parts from musclecarbrakes.com on my 69 R/t and it stops awesome. Their shoes are of material that resists fading by being far more heat resistant.

[MoParJW]

10 inch drums, no problems in (crazy  ) modern day European traffic.
Fading is a thing to watch out for, but I only experienced it in the mountains.

But my car is slow 

[c00nhunterjoe]

10" drums stop mine at the end of the 1/4 at 105.

[comet_666]

If your heavy on the brakes they will fade out a bit. They work fine other than that. I upgraded to front disk just for safety.

http://www.performanceonline.com/62-74-MOPAR-Chrysler-Dodge-Plymouth-Disc-Brake-Conversion-Kit/

[68 RT]

Are they power? Is pedal travel ok? Check for proper shoe adjustment front and back. Check for contaminated or glazed shoes. Make sure all wheel cyl. are working, sign of this is a hard pedal. My 68 r/t stops fine with manual drums. 

[XH29N0G]

Thanks everyone,  this gives me some things to check, look for, and some possible solutions.

[Dmichels]

I have 10 inch drums they will stop the car ok. I drive with the car and enjoy it. I just do not ask a lot from the brakes. I am use to driving old cars and drive them that way. If you drive hard or push them hard they will fade on you. For around the town they are fine. If you need more upgrade
Dave

[myk]

Properly adjusted and set up the drum brakes will stop the car fine.  I'd consider installing disc brakes if just for safety's sake.  Back in the day everyone drove with the same level of braking and stopping power so everyone knew the limits of these cars and drove accordingly.  Today's roads are a lot different than when these cars were new, and you've got many more drivers in much more capable cars that have ironically given drivers the excuse and the ability to drive recklessly. 

Get your system checked and drive carefully 'OP...

[lukedukem]

If your heavy on the brakes they will fade out a bit. They work fine other than that. I upgraded to front disk just for safety.

http://www.performanceonline.com/62-74-MOPAR-Chrysler-Dodge-Plymouth-Disc-Brake-Conversion-Kit/

Did your have power drums. Is this all you needed to complete the kit.
My cars tires used to lock up a bit at first use then got better. All of a sudden one day my booster went out, but after I put a new one in my brakes don't seem the same. I think there's a gap in my peddle

Luke

[b5blue]

Luke the rod from the booster to master should have a adjuster on it. I set the depth by sticking a hunk of coat hanger wire into the master and marking it with a sharpie flush with the flat mounting plate of the master. Turn the wire around and adjust the nut to just short of that length a tiny bit using the wire as a length gauge.
If the adjustable rod is too long it shortens the stroke of the master stopping it from returning all the way. If too short the peddle travels before starting to move the master's plunger too much. You can do this without removing the brake lines if you carefully pull the master forward enough and bend the wire in an L shape so it just a bit longer then the size you need.

[lukedukem]

Dang it, that's a great idea. Why didn't I think of that. I love this site. thanks

Luke

[Highbanked Hauler]

I bought my car new with 11" manual drums  and kept them adjusted up and though paper thin they lasted to 73K when I started the rebuild.  I had the drums turned new shoes ect. and it has 20K on the new brakes and they only have slight wear but you have to keep them adjusted up snug but not dragging and good quality shoes are mandatory. Yes Discs ARE better no argument there,it just depends on what you want to spend.

[Tom Q]

Call Rochester Clutch and Brake
(585) 232-3717
They speak mopar fluently
Buy 2 sets of carbon metallic shoes
The stopping power is amazing

[green69rt]

I had drums all around on my old RT and all was OK as long as I Kept things adjusted.  A little scary otherwise.......

[Stegs]

i had all my brakes redone last year...new drums, pads, springs etc.....


4 drums all the way around are brand new and i must say the car stops fine.

I leave ALOT of space from the car in front of me, never had a issue, most of the time i can just take my foot of the gas and slow down enough


4 properly operating drums should be just fine for cruising....

[Ghoste]

And it's probably all relative too.  A situation where one driver is good with the control of his vehicle could be a terrifying case of feeling out of control to the next.

[polywideblock]

wasn't there someone advertising that they could make drums stop as good as discs a few years ago     
   think MA and  MM both did brake build-ups using their stuff

[ws23rt]

Drums do stop just fine. They just need more time to shed heat than discs. (hot drums = brake fade)
If the drum setup is good and they don't drag when not using them, there is no unnecessary heat added to them.
Disc brakes can take the extra heat from those that ride the brake pedal better than drums.

[moparnation74]

I have 11" drums.  My system we pressure bleed using the motive system.  They react and stop well.

[ws23rt]

A simple test is to hit the brakes hard and if they lock up what more can one want.
The difference with disc is the recovery time ---cooling off--- is quicker.
Usually one panic stop at a time is all we encounter.

[XH29N0G]

A simple test is to hit the brakes hard and if they lock up what more can one want.
The difference with disc is the recovery time ---cooling off--- is quicker.
Usually one panic stop at a time is all we encounter.

Thanks everyone, as usual, there are a lot of suggestions to follow up on and tests I can do.  This is very helpful.  Once the salt is off the roads I will see if I can lock up the tires.  It does stop, I just don't have the feel on the pedal like the stop rate is fully proportional to the pedal pressure.
   

[green69rt]

Several mentioned that the front drums may need adjustment, after all that is where 80% of your stopping power is.   Easy to check and should probably be the first thing to check.  How do yours stack up? 

[polywideblock]

knew I'd find it  as charger -bodie  said  musclecarbrakes .com  "brake in a box" kits   

                                           http://musclecarbrakes.com/

[XH29N0G]

Several mentioned that the front drums may need adjustment, after all that is where 80% of your stopping power is.   Easy to check and should probably be the first thing to check.  How do yours stack up? 

Thank you.  Can you clarify what you mean by stack up? 

(I have never worked on brakes before.  Can you also advise on how to tell if they are adjusted correctly.  My understanding is that they are self adjusting. They do not pull to the left or right and were rebuilt less than 2000 miles ago.  I am still not certain that it is not simply that I am not accustomed to the way the pedal feel should be and that they simply are not locking up because I put larger tires on the car.  I still think I might see if I can lock them up once the weather warms as a first test, but if others think I should be doing something else, let me know.)

[green69rt]

Several mentioned that the front drums may need adjustment, after all that is where 80% of your stopping power is.   Easy to check and should probably be the first thing to check.  How do yours stack up?  

Thank you.  Can you clarify what you mean by stack up?  

(I have never worked on brakes before.  Can you also advise on how to tell if they are adjusted correctly.  My understanding is that they are self adjusting. They do not pull to the left or right and were rebuilt less than 2000 miles ago.  I am still not certain that it is not simply that I am not accustomed to the way the pedal feel should be and that they simply are not locking up because I put larger tires on the car.  I still think I might see if I can lock them up once the weather warms as a first test, but if others think I should be doing something else, let me know.)

By "stack up" I mean how well are they adjusted.  And the only way to tell is to do a little test.  Leave the tire/wheel mounted on the car.  Pry out the little oval shaped rubber plugs on the back of the backing plate.  Get a brake adjusting tool, sometimes a screwdriver works just as well.  Look thru the hole with a light and find the star wheel that adjusts the brakes.  Turn the wheel by hand as you turn the star wheel by digging the screwdriver blade into the teeth on the star wheel.  When you feel the wheel start to drag on the brake shoes, back off just a little till the wheel turns freely.  Brake is adjusted.   If it takes a lot of adjustment then the brakes where not adjusted correctly.   Problem with this method is you have to know which way to turn the star wheel.  Experience helps or just take the drum off and look at the wheel and figure it out.

Yes, a lot of cars have self adjusters but I really don't know how well they work, that's why you have to check them manually.

Really, the best way to do this is find someone that's experienced in this and have them walk you thru the process.  Once you've done a couple of wheels it is really easy.  You can even do it without the wheel/tire mounted up, I just do it with them on because I'm lazy.

If you need pics I'll pull a wheel and try to post some pictures when I get time.

[green69rt]

Just read you last post again.  Now, I'm thinking that the person that replaced the brakes did not adjust them properly.   

[XH29N0G]

Thank you.  I have seen this described and understand what you are suggesting.  I also have a spare set that are assembled that I can look at to get the hang of it. This is something I can check, but not until it is a little warmer b/c my garage was built in 1952 and there is not enough room to do this safely inside.  I'll keep you and everyone else posted about the results. 

[PlainfieldCharger]

  Make sure you have the self adjusting cable to the correct side. I have seen many rear drums done "backwards"