WINGCAR REALITY?

[500Jon]

Hi Aero's,

My dream along with many others was to own a Wingcar, its the pinnacle of all things Mopar.
Primarily I'm a muscle car guy, followed by a drag racer and in close third a Nascar GUY!
I always thought that owning a Wingcar was a right of passage.
Even though I could have bought one in the 80's I felt I had to cut my teeth on other Mopars first.
Looking back I feel that maybe I made a bad choice.
Wingcars were laying around waiting to be picked up at rock bottom prices.

Thats certainly not the case now...
I have realised that my dream will not ever be a reality, now the prices are getting mentals.
I see Daytona fenders dearer than complete cars were in the late 70's!
Even if you find a reasonably priced Winger, rebuild costs will be staggering at best...
I think it was much easier to rebuild a Winger in the last Century.

I admire the few people that endeavour to build a Clone and praise the Folks who help them on their way!!!
By a strange token my original plan to build a clone would probably have suited me better.
You can do a self-build interpretation of an ICONIC car, without the restraints of ORIGINALITY!

I have toyed with the idea of selling my C500 and joining the Merry bunch of Wingcar cloners!!!
Is there more fun to be had doing a clone than being restrained by the strict rebuild quality required of an Aero WING-car?


Why do Folks actually want to own a Winger NOW?
Myself it was the fun of Resto, no concern of cost or end value, but not everyone is like me though.
Do they just wanna buy one and see the prices go up...

5J

[qwick68]

I still want a wing car, but honestly I like the the 500s better.  Yea I thought about "building" one and even though it would be a clone that wouldn't bother me.  The cost and time to build a clone is what's stopping me right now, what's it's going to cost me I can almost pick up a 500, daytona no, 500 maybe.  That being said its really not a dollar thing it's the time issue.......

[charger chris]

If you ask me they was built to drive not sit and collect dust. I truly love the Daytona and super bird  very cool cars always wanted one not because of the money but to enjoy them. But like you my only option is to build one or find one that some one want to sell me dirt cheap and I don't see that ever happening to me. It must run in the blood because my 2 year son love his wing car he has. So maybe I'll build one and pass it on to him enjoy

[70 sublime]

I think what got me into wanting a wing car was just to have something a little different than normal
There has been 2 Daytona's in my area and my lifetime that I have known about but were out of my means (long gone now so do not ask  )
I have even had a real lime green Superbird in my driveway that stopped to look at a Charger I had for sale
I will never have enough $$ to own a real Daytona so I am going to build one that looks as close to real as I can
Drive it everywhere and park (with in reason) where I want just to see others gawking at it when I jump in to drive away 

[billssuperbird]

That is why I built my clone Superbird. I could never afford a real one. 

[62 Max]

Hi Aero's,

My dream along with many others was to own a Wingcar, its the pinnacle of all things Mopar.
Primarily I'm a muscle car guy, followed by a drag racer and in close third a Nascar GUY!
I always thought that owning a Wingcar was a right of passage.
Even though I could have bought one in the 80's I felt I had to cut my teeth on other Mopars first.
Looking back I feel that maybe I made a bad choice.
Wingcars were laying around waiting to be picked up at rock bottom prices.

Thats certainly not the case now...
I have realised that my dream will not ever be a reality, now the prices are getting mentals.
I see Daytona fenders dearer than complete cars were in the late 70's!
Even if you find a reasonably priced Winger, rebuild costs will be staggering at best...
I think it was much easier to rebuild a Winger in the last Century.

I admire the few people that endeavour to build a Clone and praise the Folks who help them on their way!!!
By a strange token my original plan to build a clone would probably have suited me better.
You can do a self-build interpretation of an ICONIC car, without the restraints of ORIGINALITY!

I have toyed with the idea of selling my C500 and joining the Merry bunch of Wingcar cloners!!!
Is there more fun to be had doing a clone than being restrained by the strict rebuild quality required of an Aero WING-car?


Why do Folks actually want to own a Winger NOW?
Myself it was the fun of Resto, no concern of cost or end value, but not everyone is like me though.
Do they just wanna buy one and see the prices go up...

5J

Bought this in 1982 for $4200,finished it in 1992,here are then and now,averages about 500 mi a year,it doesn't sit and gather dust.

[1970Moparmann]

Never say never.   I thought my dreams of owning a Bird was over when the prices skyrocketed.   4 years ago I saw a post by a member of selling his Bird.   My biggest issue I had was selling a car to make up most of the cost of the Bird.  I had all factors against me, but it worked out.   The car needs some TLC, but after 4 years, I just brought it home from storage and will have it on the road next year.  

You have a 500, which is an awesome car!  I had to give up my dream Charger to get my Bird, but it worked out for me.

[500Jon]

440 4-speed C500 is a truly awesome car indeed!
Its funny how I have to justify its Nascar heritage to other people though?
Mostly they say, ''its a ruined 69 R/T''...
I know they is jealous because they've got a 318 4-door car lol.

But herein lies the problem, its just not a Wingcar, only a fixed headlight Aerocar.
Some Folks say I bought it because I couldn't afford a real Wingcar...
Every comment belittles it uniqueness in the struggle to be a winner at Dega and Daytona.
Given time I'm sure the Charger-500 would have triumphed at the fast ovals, but the Daytona overshadows its heritage.
The real winners were the Superbirds, straight of the drawing board and straight into Winners Cirlce!!!

Yes I am a PLYMOUTH guy first and a C500-Daytona guy second.

When you are married to a beautiful woman, you sometimes get to thinking of her even better looking sister!
Yep I know how it is, from an experienced divorcee...

[Old Moparz]

Same story for me, the wing cars are just too much money to ever consider buying one. Yes, I could probably sell my other cars, finance a portion & be able to buy one but I won't because I don't believe a car is worth the price of a house. There was only one time I've ever came across what I thought was a truly good deal, meaning a nice car that was drivable & didn't need anything to enjoy it. It was a white Superbird for $15,000 in 1990. This was right after I bought my house when I was completely broke, so it may as well have been $15 million.    

Seems I've always been 1 or 2 steps behind finding one I could afford & I am not going into hock to get a car I like, so I've gathered almost everything I need to build a Daytona replica.

[Beep Beep Dave]

I always (since I was 10) wanted a Daytona. I think I could be happy with a Superbird too. Still lots of other Mopars I like too. Dreaming is living! Hopefully one day but sometimes I think I may have missed some opportunities.

Dave

[birdsandbees]

I'm similar to 62 max... scraped every penny out of the grocery money jar in the Fall of 1989 and paid $23,000 for my 'Bird. Other than correcting the engine colour I didn't do much to it over the years other than drive it some and put about 5,000 miles on it in that time frame. Currently have about $4,000 in trinkets / parts to clean it up somewhat and I'd say it's somewhere between a 3 and 2 car. Not scared to drive it down the road...

[Stevetona]

Do you guys see the prices of these cars going up, up and up in the future? Most of the " baby boomers" are getting into their 60's now. I'm 38 and love these cars. Many people my age think I'm nuts for wanting an outrageous looking car like a Bird or Daytona. They all say if you're going to spend 6 figures get a Porsche or Ferarri. 

[birdsandbees]

The owner where my 'Bee shell work is being done keeps telling me I should sell now... as "our generation is about gone". The next tier are wanting Dad's 1989 Monte Carlo or their rice rocket restored and "our market is a dying breed".

Then I sit back and see how many Daytona's and Birds are lined up that "our generation" is still spending money on and figure I have about 10 years before worrying about a price drop in value.

[Stevetona]

The owner where my 'Bee shell work is being done keeps telling me I should sell now... as "our generation is about gone". The next tier are wanting Dad's 1989 Monte Carlo or their rice rocket restored and "our market is a dying breed".

Then I sit back and see how many Daytona's and Birds are lined up that "our generation" is still spending money on and figure I have about 10 years before worrying about a price drop in value.

Thanks. You said what I was thinking. I own an airplane and it is worth less than it was 15 years ago because the costs of flying are pricing people out of the hobby.

[birdsandbees]

Thanks. You said what I was thinking. I own an airplane and it is worth less than it was 15 years ago because the costs of flying are pricing people out of the hobby.

Oh, I know way toooo much about that! I have a yard full of airplanes, it's what I do and these days it's hard to even give them away. Even with our 72 cent dollar.

[Stevetona]

Yep I'm a fellow Ontarian. I feel your pain. 

[birdsandbees]

Yep I'm a fellow Ontarian. I feel your pain. 

Irish Field Aviation.. who I am..

[qwick68]

Do you guys see the prices of these cars going up, up and up in the future? Most of the " baby boomers" are getting into their 60's now. I'm 38 and love these cars. Many people my age think I'm nuts for wanting an outrageous looking car like a Bird or Daytona. They all say if you're going to spend 6 figures get a Porsche or Ferarri. 

I'm 35....I've had my 68 20 years now, picked it up for 500 bucks in November 96

[Stevetona]

Yep I'm a fellow Ontarian. I feel your pain. 

Irish Field Aviation.. who I am..

Cool. I'm down by London. I'll have to fly the C-140 up some time!

[birdsandbees]

Cool. I'm down by London. I'll have to fly the C-140 up some time!

So you tell all the gals that you have a C-140 and "that's only a C-130 out there on the tarmac currently"...  

PPR.. one way strip, landing North and take off South.. 1995 feet long.

[white]

500 Jon never say never to finding a wing car, you could win the lottery tomorrow. I to would love to own a wing car somday but I am very happy to have a 500. Hang in there and enjoy the 500 and if a wing car opportunity shows up maybe you could do a Troy trade.

[41husk]

I traded a nice Daytona clone for a real C500 needing lots of love.  20 years ago I said "if I had a C500, I would put a wing and a nose on it and make it a sweet Daytona clone"  times change attitudes change.  I can't wait to enjoy the C500.  The Daytona is so iconic you need not explain the NASCAR heritage.  I guess 20 years ago it was more important that other people understood my car's rarity.  Now I am fine even if only a rare few know what my car realy is

[qwick68]

I traded a nice Daytona clone for a real C500 needing lots of love.  20 years ago I said "if I had a C500, I would put a wing and a nose on it and make it a sweet Daytona clone"  times change attitudes change.  I can't wait to enjoy the C500.  The Daytona is so iconic you need not explain the NASCAR heritage.  I guess 20 years ago it was more important that other people understood my car's rarity.  Now I am fine even if only a rare few know what my car realy is

I couldn't agree more.....live the 500s, Daytonas are ok too lol

[djcarguy]

   hey 500 jon think i saw a small pic of ya 500 .  sound like you have a great 4 spd car,but still want the Daytona package.   how bout a flat black 500 with a Tona kit for some years an enjoy that bad boy. get it rolling ,out on the road and enjoy it..  just my idea of a great comprimise an a HELL of alot of fun.      DJ


PS  missed a yellow 4spd Bird.early 80es,was $6,ooo.  i was in my early 20es an just bought a house an new wife said car or her,pick.... Should of took the car,divorced soon after i passed on car.



                          WING AN FUN, my solid loominum wing is on my dartona bird nose project.  DJ west USA

[Scaregrabber]

It's about the history for me. I wouldn't give up a real 500 to build a fake anything.

Sheldon

[500Jon]

XX vin tag is the Holy Grail of Mopars!

Herein lies the problem though.
(I believe that some real C500's made it to the track, but no Creative built Daytona's did?)
The immense Aero history of Mother Mopar was built on its success at the track.
Although many races were won by C500's (real or not) its a relatively forgotten car.
The C500 prowess comes from its truly unique stance and appearance in RACE trim.
The 392 street C500's looks slightly oddball to other Charger and Mopar owners.

Whereas the Wingcars are just 'in your face' Mopars...

Personally I would be happier with a 'race look' C500 or a stock street Daytona.
In a strange twist of fate , my C500 was already cloned into a Daytona, back when it seemed more acceptable.
I would never clone a real XX car into anything more or less than what it already is.
A bare bones 440, 4-speed, dana car, manual brakes, non power steering, BUT an FM radio!!!
Just how I would have ordered her back in the day, just with the HEMI of course,,,

[djcarguy]

 

[white]

I thought you have a xx car 500 Jon?

[odcics2]

I believe some race 500s were updated from a 68 tunnel back Charger stock car.
Also, most speedway 500s were Nichels built cars: standard 69 Charger body with the plug & grille added.
That's how the #88 (Nichels Engineering #DC-93) started out, leaving the shop around Thanksgiving, 1968.

Not saying that a street 500 was not ever turned into a stock car... But I have never seen any photographic proof one did.    Never say never in the MoPar World!   

As a sidebar,  one Bird was turned into a circle track race car. Vintage pics exist.   

[500Jon]

Yes I do White!
One of 25 4-speeds, last 440 C500 ever built on December 19th 1968.
Does it get any better than that???

Yep its does, a hemi 4-speed C500 lol...

That was my plan back about 5 years ago, I was discussing this with the President of the Euro Mopar Muscle Ass.
I thought he would be impressed, BUT, instead he flipped out and said people like me are mad and ruining rare original cars!
Well I was shocked and upset all at once, I had spent out on a date coded 426 hemi and 'high up' Folks are not happy.

Here's me thinking I was creating a truly unique Mopar with the backing of some other respected Mopar Folks.
It seems some Folks are seeing from a different angle.

Glad I didn't tell him I was color changing to B5 blue as well hahaha...

[djcarguy]

     TELL THE ASS PRES-= IDENT OF MM ASS -=OCIATION TO DROP DEAD AN BUILD IT YOUR WAY //


      Wood not ruin it to put in a HEMI ,,the guy is a ass. has he ever turned a wrench or fixed up a mopar


     YOUR CAR YOUR MONEY SCREW WHAT OTHERS SAY...Build your way an have fun,car can be boring stock,later years down the line.            Over here we build an show in any shape,or power plant,an enjoy...........DJ 

[white]

Awsome car Jon! Had no idea that your car was built in dec and its a 4 speed! I understand the wing car thing, easier to explain a wing car than a c500. I have gone to alot of car shows and almost Never see c500. And I'm sure a c500 would be a very rare sight in Europe!  Don't give up the dream. Finish the 500 first and enjoy it. Then find a wing car.

[500Jon]

Maybe plan 'B' would be better for me?

As you well know gas prices here in the UK are eye-watering at best!
My C500 will never be a daily driver or even a weekend Warrior...
The thought of taking her once a year to the Mopar Muscle Ass. Show is just not an option for me, with all that has been said.
So what to do with her is still a quandry?
Restore to 'Show' quality and never 'showing her' seems pointless.

Oh yes what is plan 'B'?
Do a mild resto and drive her to Dega in 2019...
Well not all the way just the dry bits.
Kent to Southampton on the RO-Ro to Florida and through to Alabama.
If I went in a round-about way, I would get the longest visitor award...

Would I drive her back???
No, maybe I would just sell her to some C500 admirer at the TRACK!!!

[alfaitalia]

Sod the fuel costs here...I plan my  69 440 RT clone to be a weekend warrior and perhaps the odd easy going show....mine is far from factory resto. Lol. I work three out of four weekend so I won't do many miles to burn the fuel! Might even take it to work on the odd sunny weekend! These cars were built to be driven.....I really get annoyed by the perfect factory rebuild that's done a few dozen road miles in ten years....the rest on a trailer...what a complete waste of time I'm my opinion. Like dating a super model but never doing the horizontal mamba !

[GOTWING]

The reality is that they are a very nerve racking pain in the ass to own especially  if you are going to drive and enjoy them. We were so excited to find this car in 4/2004 after a 23 year hibernation of the previous owner, he parked it because he put it in a grassy ditch and did some minor damage to the right rear 1/4 panel in 1981, ( pics on here somewhere ) Anyway After leaving a car show a couple of years ago our factory nose got damaged, Thanks to Hagerty and Doug S. we were able to have a NOS nose purchased painted and installed, After that incident it took me well over a year until I would even start it and pull it out of the garage. It seems like every time I take it out there is always some sort of a close call with it, this summer I had a lady in a Cadillac SUV blow a stop sign I had to lock up the brakes and swerve, second incident this summer I'm going to pick my son up from work on a back road ( he works at a camp ground ) and a kid on a four wheeler runs down a dirt road across the road right in front of me to get to the dirt road on the other side. Again I  locked up the brakes he never looked and with the trees near the edge of the road I never saw him until he was right there in front of me that one was scary as I locked the brakes up and slid just missing him.



Now the most recent incident was leaving the Ridgley Md. car show on 10/23/2016 I'm half way home and approaching where Billy Warren's place in Greenwood is i'm doing about 50 miles an hour my dad is driving behind me in the 66 hemi dodge Coronet a good distance back but still witnessed the whole thing anyway I notice up ahead is this old raggyyellow jeep with the driver wearing a vintage red motorcycle helmet ( wtf) driving along the shoulder slowly .. as I approach it I go a little to the left toward the dotted lines and before I knew it he makes a U-turn without looking  over his left shoulder right into me the only reaction time I had was to jerk the wheel hard to the left to try to miss him and he still caught the back passenger quarter panel with his left front tire this asshat had 1985 expired plates on this 77 Jeep CJ5 no driver or passenger seats in it he was using a block of wood to sit on he was running on a Red gas can sitting on the passenger floor with a Black rubber hose feeding the carburetor no insurance no doors no roof etc by the time I got the car turned around after going into a slide and quickly hopping out and running around looking at the damage i raced back up the street insanely burning the tires after him he had already disappeared from my site so I figured the only thing he could've done was go in the field he ran the jeep along the field into the edge of the woods and fled on foot into the woods.

I ran across the field into the woods after him as I was calling the police telling them to bring the dogs and that it was a hit-and-run as I'm doing this I catch up with him and convince this asshole that he needs to stay put or he is going to be in more deeper shit than he already is. And yes I was screaming at him the whole time ! It Turns out the stupid asshole wasn't even 18 years old he ended up getting seven tickets and his father came to the scene because someone that knows the son and saw him with me called his dad told him he better get out here ! Had he turned two seconds earlier I would've T-boned him right in the drivers side of the jeep with the NOS nose !!!  this kid could have been killed and Zachary and I only had on our lap belts. This car is a damn Omen. It seems like almost every time I drive it there is some sort of an incident that almost happened or happens.. So anyway Hagerty came out once again to the house to do an estimate on the passenger rear 1/4 panel, after the car is fixed this time I swear to you it will never ever see the road again.  

Does a certain member here want to trade your award winning FC7 / white gut 70 Charger R/T for it !  

[alfaitalia]

.....and what a waste that would be.

[1970Moparmann]

.. after the car is fixed this time I swear to you it will never ever see the road again.  

The asshole as you put it, won....based on what you said.   I see with where your coming from, but I drive my cars based on reality.   My Charger, has a hydroboost and 4 disk brakes.  It stops on a dime, and I drive it like it does.  My Coronet and soon to be Bird (when I get it on the road in Spring) drive very cautiously when in traffic.   The Coronet has 4 wheel drums with ceramic shoes, and stops pretty good, but it is what it is.   The Bird, I will drive even more cautiously.   Shit happens.... If you like to drive your car, drive it.   Take different roads... 

[GOTWING]

.....and what a waste that would be.
[/quote

Oh well, I put around 5,000 miles on it in 11 years it's right at 45k and that's where it will stay.pulling the battery throwing fuel treatment in the tank bagging up the tailpipes covering up and walking away to the hell with it!

[taxspeaker]

The wingcars and 500's are meant, in my eyes, to be driven. I sold 2 of my 3 old restoration cars I have owned for years to buy a Daytona 2 weeks ago-a lifetime of work now invested into a car we all want. I drove the Superbird to Alaska last year and still have it and am now in the planning stages to drive this 69 Daytona there next summer-same route. Yeah it is a numbers match 4 speed and yeah I know what its worth and I want to drive it not sit on a chair and piss my pants someday saying I wish I had! You want a trophy wife or a real woman-you want to drive a car or sit on the sidewalk and gaze at your reflection in it? We all have different ideas, but I want to enjoy these cars while also caring for them. Anyone ever driven both a real 70 Superbird and a real 69 Daytona 10,000 miles round trip to Alaska-give me 7 more months and this fatso will have proven that both of these cars can and should be driven everywhere.

Sorry for the rant I just got an earful from a jerk saying I shouldn't drive the Daytona, I should preserve it. I didn't buy it to sit in the G** d**n garage

[alfaitalia]

 

[500Jon]

Gotwing and gotscared driving it too!

Thats the reality of the World today. its full of NUTTERS!
Total idiots doing crazy stuff, just waiting to take out your pride and joy!
I drove my Mopars everyday in London back in the 80's and 90's, then one night my freshly restored Barracuda broke down.
I left it where it stopped on a fairly quiet road and the next morning returned to see what was wrong with her?
The whole side of the car had been swiped by a truck probably...
It was a mess and I sold her for scrap, fortunately the guy I sold her to was an autobody guy and he fixed her back up good.
I can TOTALLY sympathise.
5J

[birdsandbees]

The wingcars and 500's are meant, in my eyes, to be driven. I sold 2 of my 3 old restoration cars I have owned for years to buy a Daytona 2 weeks ago-a lifetime of work now invested into a car we all want. I drove the Superbird to Alaska last year and still have it and am now in the planning stages to drive this 69 Daytona there next summer-same route. Yeah it is a numbers match 4 speed and yeah I know what its worth and I want to drive it not sit on a chair and piss my pants someday saying I wish I had! You want a trophy wife or a real woman-you want to drive a car or sit on the sidewalk and gaze at your reflection in it? We all have different ideas, but I want to enjoy these cars while also caring for them. Anyone ever driven both a real 70 Superbird and a real 69 Daytona 10,000 miles round trip to Alaska-give me 7 more months and this fatso will have proven that both of these cars can and should be driven everywhere.

Sorry for the rant I just got an earful from a jerk saying I shouldn't drive the Daytona, I should preserve it. I didn't buy it to sit in the G** d**n garage

[500Jon]

Nice one Taxman!

If everyone drove cars like you there wouldn't be many 48,000 mile cars from the 60's lol...
So how do you do all that mileage and still have under 50,000 mile cars???
We always used too make jokes about American cars shipped over to England.

How many times have they been around the clock?
Judging by some I've bought, at least three times...

Met a guy at the Spring Fling a while back.
Original owner 68 Charger with 450,000 miles on her, with all original drive-chain.
Paint had gone a bit but she was on her way to FIVE times round the CLOCK!!!

That also reminds me of the less than 100 miles Hellcat, WRITE-OFF!
Some cars just ain't meant to last till their 50th birthday...

[wingcarenvy]

If I might chime in. I have a few "real" muscle cars that I drive about 2500 a year and have been all over the west coast in them as well as drag races then in multiple states. I agree they are made to be driven. I have owned and rotisserie restored a few cars and rarely drove hem because of the cleaning maintenance. Then I bought an original paint car that's a little rough and missing it's engine and it changed how I enjoy these things. I owned a Superbird in the mid 90s and I sold it to buy my first house (I paid $8500 for it). I really regret that. Ever since that day I have regretted it and I vowed to buy another. I am 43 years old. There are plenty of people coming up who want old Mopars. I don't think they will fall in value due to that. Just like the housing market these things go up and go down in value. Will they be $8500 again. No. but they might sag 20-30% in a downturn. Right now we are in a boom time and the baby boomers have big money to spend on their bucket list items. It also seems they have become "the" thing to own for the rich and famous so that's a factor too. I am saving and saving and I am going to buy in one day. For now I have a clone to enjoy. When I do buy one I will drive the wheels off it and I will procure a time slip for it too. One day. 

[djcarguy]