Paradox Mufflers:

[Captain D]

Just curious if anyone here runs the Paradox mufflers, just out of curiosity:

https://paradoxmuffler.com/testimonials/

Though I'm still doing research on them, I'm particularly liking that not only are they made here in the USA, but also they can produce that subtle muscle car sound with limited interior cab drone.

Thank you for looking and any feedback reviews...

[Kern Dog]

The blue Chevy truck sound like crap. Glass Packs/Cherry Bombs sound about the same.
The white Ford truck sounds okay but it probably still has catalytic converters and the exhaust is probably merged into 1 pipe to the back. Single exhausts can sometimes tone down the cackle that a Cherry Bomb muffler produces.
I'm all for supporting American made products and I don't mind paying a little more if it helps them.
I would not pay more if I didn't like the product.

[Captain D]

Thanks for the feedback - didn't think that they sounded too bad, especially when combatting drone. Currently I have the cherry bomb vortex (nice muscle car sound, but prone to cabin drone). Still doing research....

[Captain D]

Any preferences for either the 50 and/or 70 Flowmaster series on the 68-70' Chargers?

[Kern Dog]

Years ago I switched from Flowmasters to the Welded Ultra Flo mufflers.
I miss the classic Flowmaster sound but on the freeway, the reverberating tone hammered away at my head.
Most Flowmasters sound great to me from the outside and even when bombing around the town. It was the steady cruise that was intolerable. I'm not referring to drone as I have not dealt with that in a long time.
It is a bummer trying to pick the right muffler. Every non stock engine is a little different, trying to assess a video with sound on a computer or phone is nowhere near realistic.
Good luck though.

[Mike DC]

Unpopular opinion: 

I like the sound of Flowmasters just fine. I really do.  But I don't understand how the car hobby has come to view them as a 'classic' hot rod sound. 

Flowmasters didn't exist until the mid-1980s. They were not widespread until the 1990s.  That was the era of Vanilla Ice 5.0 Mustangs, not Steve McQueen Bullitt Mustangs. 


It just seems weird to me that so many guys wouldn't dream of putting 17" wheels on their classic car because it's "too modern".  But they run mufflers with the distinct sound of the 17" wheel era.   

[Captain D]

Thanks for the discussions! I may have an unpopular opinion too, lol, but I was leaning towards the quieter 70 Series. Reason being, my Charger (obviously) doesn't have a catalytic converter, so the 70 Series may actually sound pretty decent being on an older car, such as this (vs, say, a modern car or truck that do have catalytic converters) and the 70 Series being a step up in sound from stock anyhow.

We do a lot of cruises with folks riding along and we just don't need / want it loud with drone within the interior. Besides, it being an eye-catching year (1969) and orange, the car naturally draws attention to itself rather than needing a loud exhaust system. Anyone else run the 70 Series, by chance? The link:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/flo-52572

[Kern Dog]

Unpopular opinion: 

I like the sound of Flowmasters just fine. I really do.  But I don't understand how the car hobby has come to view them as a 'classic' hot rod sound. 

Flowmasters didn't exist until the mid-1980s. They were not widespread until the 1990s.  That was the era of Vanilla Ice 5.0 Mustangs, not Steve McQueen Bullitt Mustangs. 


It just seems weird to me that so many guys wouldn't dream of putting 17" wheels on their classic car because it's "too modern".  But they run mufflers with the distinct sound of the 17" wheel era.   

You do make an interesting point. The hypocrisy doesn't make sense to me either but some things matter more to people than others.
Many of our cars look far more shiny than an original ever did but few people care enough to call that out.
many of them are built with more power too and again, I don't see much pushback there either.
The crowd that prefers the classic 15" diameter wheels is often basing their opinion on a visual preference. Maybe the sound of the Flowmasters just hits the right notes for them to where even though it sounds very different from an original car, they really like it. Sometimes we can't help what it is that we like.
If it were possible to have that echo that Flowmasters have at idle and WOT and then they got quieter at cruise, that would be amazing. Sort of like "active exhaust" that the late model Challengers and Chargers have.

[Mike DC]

The shiny paint thing is an apt comparison.  These cars didn't have super-glossy finishes from the factory, but that's what everybody wants on them. 


IMO loud exhaust is a pretty straight compromise.  Either it's loud enough to be cool or it's quiet enough to enjoy cruising for long stretches.  Find where you draw the line.  The popular Flowmasters (or at least, that style of chambered muffler) are mostly bad about droning at cruising revs. 

I can't remember the last time I heard a Flowmaster 70 series (and was aware of it).  The 40-series ones are damn loud.  Even the 50 series are not quiet.     



There are some muffs that have internal valves to open up for higher revs.  The OEMs dabble in it.  Some modern sports cars get abruptly louder when you stomp on the gas.  I think it's overdone. 

IIRC Dynomax(?) made an aftermarket valved muffler a few years ago.  Sort of a glasspack type but in an oval casing.  They took it off the market though.  I heard the spring-loaded valve was bouncing around too much.  That problem seems fixable in theory.       

[Captain D]

I heard that the Magnaflow internal mesh breaks down over time. And, unsure if the FLO-70 series will even fit the Charger (22" body, 28" overall length) if I even wanted to use it....

[496polara]

Just get the longest muffler that will fit. That should help with db levels and may limit drone.

Not a flowmaster fan per se but they sounded better on an old mustang with the 5.0 as long as they still had catalytic converters.

I remember seeing a video a while back with a guy with 3" flowmasters that were too loud for his taste. He installed glasspacks in front of the mufflers and it tamed it quite nicely.


I have been a Dynomax Super Turbo fan for years but they can produce drone at cruise rpm's.

I have vehicles now with the dynomax,magnaflow,and Borla Pro xs. I like them all.

[Mike DC]

               
Any muffler with fiberglass mesh will degrade over time.  The exhaust gases corrode it. 

Traditional cheap glasspacks (full of fiberglass) never really have a 'stable' period.  They just start out new (quiet) and wear down with mileage like the treads on a tire.  People usually install them on the exhaust pipes with clamps (rather than full welding) so they can replace the glasspacks periodically. 

The higher-grade versions of straight-thru mufflers use other packing materials like rock wool or steel mesh or combinations. 


For an exhaust that's quiet but high-flowing, you should look to the factory RT system.  2.5" pipe, shrinking down to 2.25" pipe after the main mufflers.  Use turbo mufflers with the biggest case that will fit.  Add some kind of long thin secondary mufflers alongside the gas tank.  Put an H-pipe crossover in the main pipes before the main mufflers. 

Ways to improve it:  Use mandrel bends.  Use an X-pipe instead of an H-pipe.  Minor airflow gains.   

This system will be pretty quiet for a showy car like a General Lee.  You might decide it's too quiet. 


   
Bigger 3-inch pipe systems are popular on muscle cars.  But it usually does more to make noise than horsepower.  3" does not add much extra horsepower until the engine is making 500+ horses.  Most street engines (even 440s) are not doing that unless they have hot aftermarket cylinder heads and maybe a stroker crank.     
   

[Captain D]

Thanks again for the response(s) as I enjoy learning. The shop doing the work suggested the FLO-50 Series (anything larger would lead to fitting concerns), plus, they can't hear any difference between the 50 Series and 50 Delta Flows....