Road Trip

[lloyd3]

Made a new friend last summer who lives down in Colorado Springs. He's 80 now, but he was a very serious car guy for many years (owned them, raced them, etc.). He and I also share an interest in old English double shotguns and bird hunting. Long story short, he's a transplant from Calli(fornia!) and he's clearly casting about for like-minded folks (ie, "friends"). I'm a transplant here too (except I've been out here for 40-years now).  Anyway, we had chatted about going to lunch someday in my old car several times and yesterday was finally it. 

The mountain you see in the distance is Pike's Peak. The weather was nearly perfect, slightly cool and very dry.





Gives one a sense of the scale of things out here, eh?  If you live back East (or even in California) this should give you an understanding of how things used to look out here (before Colorado's bigger cities essentially became California). 

Before this trip, I specifically made sure I had enough fuel on-board because between our two homes there is only 1 convenient gas station (& where I topped-off first), 7mpg and 19 gallons tends to really keep you focused on the subject.  FWIW: lunch was nice and the owner of the little breakfast shop we went to turned out to be yet another car nut. She made it a point to track us down to ask me about what was sitting in her parking lot. She only knew enough to be interested, but she was pleasant and asked good questions (you never see 2nd generation cars out here anymore, not sure why).

The car ran surprisingly well and with no issues (it's sadly become an act of faith for me anymore, because I never take it anywhere far from home) and it's on roads like this where you really wish you had another gear to use (or maybe even an automatic and 3:23 gears).  As it was, this "secondary road" speed limit is only 60 mph and at roughly 3,300 RPM that's about what this car does comfortably over long distances.

I think I'm going to be doing more of this.

[Kern Dog]

Good for you, Lloyd.
I'm always surprised to read of the mileage that you report. 7 seems really low for a fairly stock car on street axle gearing. The lack of overdrive will limit freeway mileage but 7 ?
I am on the finishing touches of a roller cam swap in my car and contemplating the annual 900 mile road trip with it!

[lloyd3]

KD: It might even make 8 mpg on the highway but not much more. No matter, that's not why I own it.

Out of curiosity, what is the average for one of these cars in a "stock" configuration?  I know the automatics are a little better and then a more-standard highway gearing (3:23) helps even more. I'm guessing 12-14 mpg on such a configuration but I can't imagine too-much better than that for a 2nd generation R/T car?

I'm guessing the combination of the 18-spline 4-gear and the 3:54 Dana is the issue here, the carb is the factory 4428s Carter AVS.  These cars were never built for fuel efficiency (gas in 1968 was what exactly, something like .29 cents per gallon(?) and this is perhaps why the 4-gear Chargers only account for like 10% of production (the 130 mile range on a full tank does suck just a little).

Nobody cared about fuel costs then.

I might add here that my newer (2017) Toyota Sequoia is actually making more-like 15 mpg now (I figured out how to use the fuel economy calculator in the monitoring system) and that is better than the 12 mpg that I had originally figured-on, but not much. 

Bigger cars (and bigger V-8s) aren't known for their fuel efficiency. I can always buy another Honda Civic if that becomes an issue again (but I'm guessing it won't for me). 

Maybe I'll even go "electric" someday (just don't hold your breath).

[Kern Dog]

The 3.54 Dana is not a light axle, the energy to spin that dude is certainly higher than a 3.55 8 3/4" axle so that is one factor.
Looking at old road tests from the late 60s, they reported freeway mpgs in the 12-14 range with the standard 3.23 R/T models so a number of 8 is just not in line.
I look at your number and wonder why I have such a huge difference since I have almost 495 cubes, a bigger cam, an 850 carburetor and mine probably weighs a little more. The wider tires would seem to be detrimental to mileage too. Last year with a bigger cam and driving faster, I was in the high 12s on the freeway but then my overdrive cuts my 3.55 down to around 2.27. That is a huge difference right there. I got 15.1 back in 2022 with the same engine size, same gearing but before the engine rebuild. That mill had a smaller, milder cam.
I know, we don't drive these for the economy and forgive me for dwelling on it. I do think that for some, poor mileage can be the difference between wanting to casually drive around in a classic or to just drive a later model car.

[Mike DC]

 
Other mileage factors:

- Bias-ply tires cost fuel.  The OEMs switched to radials in the 1970s because of the gas crisis.

- Ethanol reduces efficiency.  Pure ethanol only makes 2/3rds the power of pure gas.   

- Kanye West.  Don't tell me he's innocent in this. 

[70 sublime]

My old 69 Charger with a 383 in it got 20 mpg on my last road trip doing 70 mph for 3 hours straight
The car had 2.92 gears in the back which totally sucked in town but was great out on the open road

[Mike DC]

 

My old 69 Charger with a 383 in it got 20 mpg on my last road trip doing 70 mph for 3 hours straight
The car had 2.92 gears in the back which totally sucked in town but was great out on the open road

20 mpg is good for a 383, even with tall gears.  Was it a stick tranny or a 2-barrel carb? 

I've heard of pretty good numbers using 1980s truck 4spds in muscle cars.  That was the hot ticket for overdrive before the Tremec trannys.

[70 sublime]

My old 69 Charger with a 383 in it got 20 mpg on my last road trip doing 70 mph for 3 hours straight
The car had 2.92 gears in the back which totally sucked in town but was great out on the open road

20 mpg is good for a 383, even with tall gears.  Was it a stick tranny or a 2-barrel carb? 

I've heard of pretty good numbers using 1980s truck 4spds in muscle cars.  That was the hot ticket for overdrive before the Tremec trannys.

Auto and 2-barrel

[Mike DC]

Auto and 2-barrel

So it was a non-Magnum 383?  I think those had smaller cams than 383/440 Mag.  That would help mileage a bit.

I assume it had radial tires too? 

[lloyd3]

Yeah, the 2 383 mags I owned were never close to that. The 70 RR was an auto and it got maybe 16? The 4-gear 70 Bee was 14 all day, much less if you pushed it (& I pushed all the time). I believe both were 3.23s.

I've never owned a fuel-efficient big block.

Edit to add:  Just for kicks, I used Google AI (artificial intelligence) to look up "fuel efficiency of a 70 roadrunner". "8 to 13 mpg" was the answer, depending on how it was equipped and how it was driven.

They did mention that some owners reported up to 17 mpg "during steady highway cruising at lower speeds". I'm assuming 383 auto for this one.

[timmycharger]

Fuel economy is probably the least of my concerns with my Charger however I read that if I really tried, I could get decent mileage from my 440 six pack if I keep my foot out of it and not open the outboards.

I will probably never know as it is virtually impossible for me to drive that way 
 

[Kern Dog]

My best mileage was on level ground running at speeds below 70 in fifth gear. (Obvious, I know)
In 2024 and last year, the annual road trips to Southern CA and back were with a group that likes to drive a bit faster so the speeds were up. I had a wilder cam than before and shorter rear tires than in 2022. All of those factors affected mileage.
I don't know that I have ever checked the economy of just driving around on regular streets. That would surely be well under 10! I just swapped to a milder hydraulic roller camshaft with better low speed performance which means higher efficiency at points where it matters on the street. We keep saying that mileage is not that important and I agree, it is not the reason for owning these cars but it can be interesting to work on that as well as performance. If you can make the car more efficient, you can feel a bit more comfortable taking the car on longer drives.

[Mike DC]

                                 
Single-digit mileage is a practical issue.  At 8 mpg the B-body gas tank will only last about 150 miles.  We make fun of electric cars with ranges that short. 

In the rural western areas of the country that means stopping to fill the tank almost every hour.  (And a little red lawnmower gas can isn't enough if you get stranded.  The next station might be 4-5 gallons away.) 



These cars are doomed to get bad mileage in the big picture.  The engines are too big for city driving, and on the highway the aerodynamics are too ugly. 

I suppose a Daytona/Bird with a stick overdrive might get decent highway mileage.  Assuming it's a wedge motor with a tame cam & carb.  And radial tires.       

[doctor4766]

I could tell you what mileage I was getting for most of the cars I owned in the last 20 years, however I have never ever calculated what either of my Chargers were using per 100km
With the price of fuel these days (and not meaning the recent price hikes) I wouldn't really want to know how bad my fuel economy is as it would probably put me off taking the car out. I usually just throw 40-50 bucks in the tank before a day out and if I need to top it up at some stage I will.

[Kern Dog]

Don't let the cost deter you. If you enjoy driving the car, spend the money. One day you may not have the car or the money to drive it. Take advantage of what good fortune you have at every given moment.

[doctor4766]

That's how I look at it.
I couldn't care less what mpg it gets and that's why I never try to track it

[426HemiChick]

Hi  lloyd3,          08 Apr 2026

Looking at your two photos looks like where you were when you took them was a whole lot of wide-open space. Not "zackly" a good place to have car trouble. I've been to Colorado numerous times working in Denver. Never got out to the wide open spaces.

Skied Vail once, saw the most elegant elk resting along the resort's "cat track." He was the resort's pet.

Best

Chris

[Mike DC]

I usually just throw 40-50 bucks in the tank before a day out and if I need to top it up at some stage I will.

Is it that easy to fill up with gasoline in Australia?   


They make it look more difficult on TV.

[timmycharger]

I usually just throw 40-50 bucks in the tank before a day out and if I need to top it up at some stage I will.

Is it that easy to fill up with gasoline in Australia?   


They make it look more difficult on TV.

LOLOLOL!! nice reference! I joke with my wife all the time that in 20 years we are going to be driving the Charger around in the wastelands of USA with 2 50 gallon drums of fuel in the trunk like the Road Warrior, looking for gas 

[lloyd3]

Mike in DC: Too-cool (& a great laugh, thankyou!).  Road warrior indeed!

Ms. Chris: Usually... when I'm in these "wide-open spaces" out here with my car it is because I'm very sad about something (most commonly, the death of a dear friend or a family member). I seem to do my best thinking then for some reason (their memories seem clearer somehow). This trip was different because it was a purely "fun" long-range mission (to go get lunch with a like-minded fellow) but you're right...a breakdown would have royally sucked.  I keep a fire-bottle on hand and my cell-phone but...coverage is pretty spotty in the "boonies" sometimes.

To avoid that, I drove the car several times around the neighborhood first after getting it out of winter hibernation, and with a couple of hard-pulls on the now 6-lane road in front of our development. This car is wayyyy-overdue for some attention but it somehow just keeps plugging along (for which I am most grateful). Keeping them "stock" seems to have some benefits, eh? 

On the "nicer" days here you see lots of other "classics" out and about in the suburbs, but you sure don't see many other "older" cars out in the sticks anymore, and it's not hard to understand why.

I pulled over once on a very lonely 2-lane overpass (over I-70) several years ago now, way-out East on the Great Plains (near to Limon, Colorado). I was trying to have a phone conversation with my brother (IIRC) and my then-
earlier cell-phone was hard to hear with the engine running (this was in the pre-hearing aid era). It was also a bit hot and I needed a break to air-out and stretch my legs a little and...if I have to confess, I was also showing the car off (just a bit) to the cars whizzing by in both directions on the highway (I had just washed and waxed it earlier and it was looking pretty darn good IMHO).  The number of folks that stopped to ask me if I was having problems was a little surprising (and in a nice way), with some even pulling off of the interstate highway. 

These cars really attract attention, even in the loneliest places...

[426HemiChick]

Hi lloyd3,       09 Apr 2026

There's a movie that's about 40 years young called "Stand By Me." I like that flick as it reminds me of my friends, our adventures and long friendship, which lasted until 2015 when the last two passed. We had been friends since we were pre-teen.

Unlike the friends in the flick. we remained friends our whole lives. We did a lot of crazy stuff while growing up. One of the things I am very proud of is that we all served in the US Military, two in the Army, one in the Marine Corp and two in the Navy. Being in the military was one of the best things that we did. I think that's when we got our heads screwed on correctly.

I miss them, we were family!

Chris

[lloyd3]

It is so-hard to lose your childhood friends, especially those who you maintained steady contact with. When they go a part of you goes with them.



My buddy's jeep from about a month ago.  He was my brothers best friend since 3rd grade and had been a fixture in our home for all the years I lived back there.  He would have been 67 this coming Mother's Day. This accident killed him and his wife. She died on the scene, he lingered in a coma for about two weeks.

This one was hard.

[Charger-Bodie]

It is so-hard to lose your childhood friends, especially those who you maintained steady contact with. When they go a part of you goes with them.

Facts.... i lost a classmate/friend in 8th grade. it was the first tim i felt REAL pain.