440 running hot

[73performance]

 I Finally got my 73 charger SE going, but with some difficulties. After I drove it around about a mile it would get so damn hot you couldn't touch the valve covers or the radiator. The temp gauge only read 1/8 up the scale. The water seems to be circulating. Also after it got hot like that it woudn't idle, it would just shut off, if I wantted to keep it running, i had to push the throttle a bit. Any solutions?

[TylerCharger69]

Well...for one...it doesn't sound like your temp gauge is working properly.    Hook up an aftermarket gauge to it  and then check your reading from a direct connection  instead of electronically.    It could be you need a flushing,   radiator needs rodding,  thermostat may be a bad one......if you run a clutch fan  it may not be turning fast enough....you have a shroud?.....I mean....Where to start, where to start..........water pump issues.....collapsing lower hose due to the support spring being rusted out or missing.......process of elimination i guess.....

[Wakko]

Keep in mind, on a normal functioning system you're still looking at 200 degree temps...so you wouldn't touch it anyway.   As Tyler stated, I'd check your temperature gauge first.  Take it out and put it in boiling water or buy a cheapie tester for $20.

[firefighter3931]

Check your timing....make sure it isn't retarded. Late ignition timing will cause overheating. 


Ron

[TylerCharger69]

lol...yeah  that too...

[BigBlockSam]

retarded

   he said retarded

[Mike DC]

 
And in the bigger picture, keep in mind that you may still be fighting this problem even after you find the specific reason for this particualr case of overheating. 

Modern gasoline (read: crappy gasoline) makes these engines want to run hotter than they should in the first place.  It's one of the major reasons that upgraded/aftermarket radiators & cooling systems are a big plus.

   

[ChargerRob]

Just for reference. My 440 normally runs around 195 to 200 deg. If I run the A/C it climbs to 215 to 220 deg.

Well, maybe not that good of a reference. 

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Im going to try upping my jets 2 points to try and allieveate some highway temp rise..........

[BigBlockSam]

220 won't hurt a cast iron 440 but your at the hottest that engine should be at. I've overheated a 440 to 240 and it survived but i don't recommend you do that very often or your luck may run out. Rene

[694spdRT]

I am curious if your car is an original big block setup with the 28" radiator and shroud?

[firefighter3931]

A lot of variables contribute to higher operating temps. As Mike said above....crappy pump gas isn't helping. 

Auto transmissions generate a ton of heat ! I've found that by using a good external tranny cooler/deep pan & bypassing the radiator you will bring down your engine temps. The cooling system can then concentate on just heat transfer from the engine, and not both. Plumbing it this way will keep both the engine and transmission running cooler, a win-win scenerio.

This is very important for anyone running a looser than stock torque converter because those generate a lot of heat. A stand alone "stacked plate" B&M cooler is far superior to the built in  tranny rad cooler....by a long shot. 


Ron

[73performance]

Thanks guys you are helping alot, I was recomended here by a friend, and I gotta say after the first night I've been on everynight. Great sight guys. Keep It Up! I'll get to what I can this weekend and see if your guyses suggestions work. Thanks

[ChargerRob]

If I'm not mistaken, the thermostat called out for the 69 440 is a 195 deg. Is that correct?
I'm pretty sure that's what is in my 440. I drove my charger the other day about 120 miles
round trip in mid 90's weather with the A/C on and she got to 220 to 225 on my aftermarket
gauge while on the freeway. Worried me a little, but once I was on the streets she cooled down
a bit to around 215. Thank God for A/C 

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Damn Rob you got ballz 'o steel bro!   225º is right on the edge...
FWIW I jetted up my carb 2 steps to possibly alievate some highway high temps.......so far so good.

I havent had a chance to do an extended run as of yet with the change yet

[ChargerRob]

Hey Chris, What temp thermostat are you using? Is the 195 deg I have too much?
The only time the temp gets to the high side is when the A/C is on. Other than that
is around 200 deg. I thought it was normal for the temp to rise with A/C on. Any advise.

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Mine is a 160º
I wouldnt say the 195º is too much.  The thermostat only controlls at what temp the engine will maintain at optimal conditions.   If its hot and the temp rises and comes down eventually,  your cooling system itself is running at its max potential.
If your cooling system in general was optimal then it would run at 195º all day long....  a lot of factors contribute to the overall cooling capibilities of an engine...timing, carb size, jetting, plug heat range, size of radiator, fan size, shroud, radiator seals, type of coolant waterpump etc.....to many variables.  Every engine is different.  Just like everyones tolerance level is different.......I couldnt tolerate running 225º

[tan top]

Hey Chris, What temp thermostat are you using? Is the 195 deg I have too much?
The only time the temp gets to the high side is when the A/C is on. Other than that
is around 200 deg. I thought it was normal for the temp to rise with A/C on. Any advise.

   
could try richening up the mixture a bit                try a  180 degree thermostat .  mine never goes  above that no matter what, even when idling in a hot garage  and me  messing with the  the timing  etc  , original  440 auto car  a/c not hooked up , 055 radiator with or with out a  fan shroud . 
   

If I'm not mistaken, the thermostat called out for the 69 440 is a 195 deg. Is that correct?
I'm pretty sure that's what is in my 440. I drove my charger the other day about 120 miles
round trip in mid 90's weather with the A/C on and she got to 220 to 225 on my aftermarket
gauge while on the freeway. Worried me a little, but once I was on the streets she cooled down
a bit to around 215. Thank God for A/C

   
not sure what all 69 's came with but,   my 69 was originally sold new in Texas , it was fitted with a 180 thermostat  and  also had the  original decal on the core support to verify this.

[ChargerRob]

Thanks for the great info guys. 
I guess I will be looking into my cooling sysytem. I sure don't want to damage anything.
I would just DIE if I couldn't drive my Charger. Wife would have to enroll me into C.A.
(Chargers Anonymous) to help with the withdrawls. 

[Brightyellow69rtse]

i never ever have any cooling probs here. i can let it idle inm 100 degree heat till it runs out of gas. milidon high flow aluminum water pump, 160 high flow thermostat, aluminum flex fan no shroud  had the old radiartor recored that was in it a few years back. its a massive 2 cores thick now and a can of water wetter. i use an aftermarket guage too cuse i dont trust the stock one. the highest it has ever gotten was this weekend actually topped off at bout 190  .........Mike


i still stand by my opinion that unless your driving these cars where you need to use the heat i think everyone should run a 160 it just keeps her cooler

[BigBlockSam]

water wetter

i use that too. Rene

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Damn Rob you got ballz 'o steel bro! 225º is right on the edge...
FWIW I jetted up my carb 2 steps to possibly alievate some highway high temps.......so far so good.

I havent had a chance to do an extended run as of yet with the change yet

I jetted up 2 points from 74's to 76's in the Holley....dropped the temp on the highway about 3-5º......just nudged past 205º this time......I'm leaving it alone for now

[tan top]

this might be of sum intrest guys , reading  a road test report on a new 69 SUPER BEE 383 in magazine (  CAR LIFE February 1969 )  it  said Chrysler  fitted  vehicles with a 190 degree thermostat as standard , for better emission control , and  a opperating range of  190 -200 deg is safe , because cars use all year round coolent & and a higher pressure radiator cap raises the boiling point to at least 250 degrees . then it went on to say  don't panic if the temperature reads 200 all the time, as the normal opperating range  indicated on the gauge would be  170 - 230 degrees .                    to me 230 seems high though .

[Brightyellow69rtse]

heat kills horse power plain and simple the cooler the better 160 high flow would definatly help imo. chris try iy out if your at 205 all the time. it will help man  .......Mike

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

I have a 160º in it now.....its only 205ºon the highway...street cruising it ranges from 180-195º

[694spdRT]

Last weekend in the Missouri 95 degree heat my car stayed right around 180 degrees whether idling in traffic or cruising the back roads. I have not ran extended distances on the freeway to check that yet. My 440 is setup with the 054 radiator, shroud, 180 degree stat, and a newer 5 blade clutch fan.

BTW: What is the "secret" key strike for degrees again? 

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Hold ALT key down and press 167 on number pad

º ¼ ½ ¾ etc....

http://firehotquotes.bolt2.com/altcodes/fhqalt.html

[grouseman]

694spdRT is describing his cooling system which is working perfectly.  If he put in a 195 stat, his operating temp would stay at 195 at idle, at cruise, with A/C blasting.  If he had a 160, it would be a 160 all the time.  He has enough cooling capacity to shed whatever excess heat the engine generates.  The stat maintains the minimum temp ONLY, it can't control the MAXIMUM temperature.  That's the job of the radiator, et. al. 

A system which is running at 205º (Cool!  It worked!), or anything hotter than the stat rating, has marginal capacity.  You need to fix/increase coolant flow, airflow, and/or radiating capability. 

[tick68charger]

Had the same problem with my 440. nothing i did worked, timing,thermostats
different lb. radiator caps, fan shroud, water pump

so i got a becool radiator with out the built in trans cooler, and got the
B@M stack plate super trans cooler, a mildon high flow water pump,
a mildon high flow thermostat, a B@M trans pan with the cooling fins
and it holds 4 more qrts of trans fluid. a electric fan hooked up to a
manual switch because i still run the stock 7 blade mechanical fan
no shroud. and an overflow tank, and a new temp gauge.  runs all day at 180.

install problems:
had to put battery in the trunk, had to get braided flex hose and cut
to length,

i got all parts from summit racing, if you want part #s let me know.

overheating problem taken care of, but after 30 to 45 minutes of driving
at 20 to 30 mph my car looses idle and dies. my carb is getting hot
so next on my list ceramic coat my hooker headers and get a thicker
carb gasket that does not transfer heat. if that does not take care
of my vapor lock a six pack hood is going on to get ride of the
under hood heat. because everything is hot from my headers.
windshield wiper fluid box and wiper motor everything in the
engine compartment.

process of eliminations $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[BigBlockSam]

but after 30 to 45 minutes of driving
at 20 to 30 mph my car looses idle and dies. my carb is getting hot

you know what might help you too. to install the valley pan with the manifold heat ports blocked. i forget the # rite now. that would stop hot air from circulating under your carb and your intake won't change color also. Rene

[tick68charger]

I have that valley pan with the heat ports blocked. my front bowls are cool do to air movement
from the fan and such, but the bowls in back of my 850 Holley are hot and everything on the
firewall and engine compartment. does anyone think ceramic coating my hooker headers
would take care of my engine bay temps.
has anyone ran an un-ceramic coated header, and then went to a ceramic coated header?
and was there a noticeable difference?

[Brightyellow69rtse]

i talked my brother into getting ceramic coated one and i dont have any numbers to give u but it seemed much cooler under the hood after those were put on...........Mike

[tick68charger]

thanks for the input.