Stainless Steel Brake Kit with Power Booster

[Animal]

The only reason I ask is SSBC say Ford & GMC use front or back,so one of them must be using front resivoir for front brakes.Very confusing.Thanks Ron,maybe you can put me out of my misery.

[firefighter3931]

Adam, i've been reading through my installation instructions and it says the same thing in the "solutions guide" to commonly asked questions. I agree, the wording is contradictory and the explanation vague, at best  It's time to make the call and see what they have to say. Personally, i think you've go the wrong master cylinder for a Mopar application. 

Ron

Ps. Ok i just found this on page 3 of the installation guide ;

"When installing your new master cylinder, remember that the rear port of the master cylinder is for the front brakes and the front port is for the rear brakes "

[Animal]

Thanks Ron,I will phone SSBC tomorow.They only mention Ford or GMC in the instructions which makes me think you are right about wrong master :flame:BTW,it's very difficult to tell which one has the larger resevoir,front or rear. Thanks Adam.

[firefighter3931]

BTW,it's very difficult to tell which one has the larger resevoir,front or rear. Thanks Adam.

That pretty much confirms that you have the wrong master. The back reservoir is distinctively larger on the disc brake application...there is no mistake identifying which is which. Have a look at Dan's pic above...that is what yours should look like.

Let us know what they say Adam...i'm positive you'll be recieving a new master cylinder shortly. 


Ron

[mopar1968]

I'm glad my post could be so helpful to both of you.  Maybe someday someone will help me and my problem.  I know SSBC won't. 

Oh well, maybe I'll rip this crappy system off and Ebay it.  Then I can afford the other kit from Master Power Brakes.....

[firefighter3931]

I'm glad my post could be so helpful to both of you.  Maybe someday someone will help me and my problem.  I know SSBC won't. 

Oh well, maybe I'll rip this crappy system off and Ebay it.  Then I can afford the other kit from Master Power Brakes.....

Have you recieved the new Master from SSbrakes yet ? You could have recieved a defective master (or the incorrect one for the application),,,anything is possible    What is the bore diameter on the master that's in there now ? It sounds like a fluid volume issue to me with the 4 disc setup.

I wouldn't go ripping it all out just yet.


Ron

[mopar1968]

I'm glad my post could be so helpful to both of you.  Maybe someday someone will help me and my problem.  I know SSBC won't. 

Oh well, maybe I'll rip this crappy system off and Ebay it.  Then I can afford the other kit from Master Power Brakes.....

Have you recieved the new Master from SSbrakes yet ? You could have recieved a defective master (or the incorrect one for the application),,,anything is possible    What is the bore diameter on the master that's in there now ? It sounds like a fluid volume issue to me with the 4 disc setup.

I wouldn't go ripping it all out just yet.


Ron

Actually, the master I bought locally is the same thing they were going to ship.  I bought a NEW Master from Autozone, that is identical in specs to the SSBC unit.

If it is a fluid volume issue, then the SSBC master will do the same thing.  1 1/32 bore, 73-76 Dodge Disc Brake unit.  That is exactly what I have.  I even returned it and got another hoping it was the master.  I think it is just a poorly designed kit that is underpowered for the car.  Mustang rotors, T-bird calipers, and who knows what else.  Even the brackets and bolts look like something a high school student would make in metal shop.  I watched the car programs this weekend, and watched an episode with a disc brake upgrade.  All the components were like way better engineered than my kit.  They were using a Wilwood kit.  Live and learn?

The Wilwood, Baer, and Master Power Brakes kits are chosen by more pro's then SSBC.  I guess I know why now.  I've spent close to 2k on this kit, including the rears.  For that kind of money I could have easily purchased the Baer kit that seam to satisfy people like....Chip Foose!

[blue69]

BTW,it's very difficult to tell which one has the larger resevoir,front or rear. Thanks Adam.

That pretty much confirms that you have the wrong master. The back reservoir is distinctively larger on the disc brake application...there is no mistake identifying which is which. Have a look at Dan's pic above...that is what yours should look like.

Let us know what they say Adam...i'm positive you'll be recieving a new master cylinder shortly. 


Ron

Firefighter3931 , if he is using 4 wheel disc, the front and rear resevoirs should be about the same size. The reason the resevoir for the front is bigger on disc/drum is because disc brakes are self adjusting and as the pads in the caliper wear out the piston's stationary position moves and takes up more fluid. On a all wheel disc master cylinder both resevoirs are large. If the master cylinder looks like this, http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NOS-67-76-CORVETTE-MASTER-CYLINDER-W-POWER-BRAKES_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ34199QQihZ007QQitemZ170009999469QQrdZ1 it should work. Most kits use a corvette master cylinder for 4 wheel disc conversions. One thing to keep in mind is the corvette master cylinder has the brake port sizes backwards (9/16" for the front brakes and  1/2" for the rear)  compared a mopar. I think the front brakes should be connected to the port closest to the booster on both, but you should double check with ssbc. The bore size is usually 1 1/8" on 4 wheel disc kits.

EDIT: I looked it up at http://www.hydratechbraking.com/products/mastercylinders.html . On a corvette master cylinder the front port goes to the front brakes and the rear port goes to the rear brakes. This is opposite of a mopar master cylinder in which front port goes to the rear brakes and the rear port goes to the front brakes. The site says there is a 65/35 split between the front and rear volume delivered so it could make a big difference if it was reversed.

[mopar1968]

BTW,it's very difficult to tell which one has the larger resevoir,front or rear. Thanks Adam.

That pretty much confirms that you have the wrong master. The back reservoir is distinctively larger on the disc brake application...there is no mistake identifying which is which. Have a look at Dan's pic above...that is what yours should look like.

Let us know what they say Adam...i'm positive you'll be recieving a new master cylinder shortly. 


Ron

Firefighter3931 , if he is using 4 wheel disc, the front and rear resevoirs should be about the same size. The reason the resevoir for the front is bigger on disc/drum is because disc brakes are self adjusting and as the pads in the caliper wear out the piston's stationary position moves and takes up more fluid. On a all wheel disc master cylinder both resevoirs are large. If the master cylinder looks like this, http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NOS-67-76-CORVETTE-MASTER-CYLINDER-W-POWER-BRAKES_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ34199QQihZ007QQitemZ170009999469QQrdZ1 it should work. Most kits use a corvette master cylinder for 4 wheel disc conversions. One thing to keep in mind is the corvette master cylinder has the brake port sizes backwards (9/16" for the front brakes and  1/2" for the rear)  compared a mopar. I think the front brakes should be connected to the port closest to the booster on both, but you should double check with ssbc. The bore size is usually 1 1/8" on 4 wheel disc kits.

You have pointed out an excellent issue.....

If you order the 4wheel disc kit like I did for a NON POWER Brake car, they ship you a booster and Master Cylinder as you describe (Same size bowls and reversed connections).  If you order the kit for a Power Brake Car, they ship you the standard Master from a 73-76 Dodge Disc Brake car and NO booster.  The bore size is different between them as the Mopar unit is 1 1/32 and the SSBC is 1 1/8.   

I've called Tech support 4 times now, and they same the same thing each time.  They say the MC for the Mopar WILL work fine for their kit on a Power Brake Car.  For a NON Power car, use their MC and their booster.

Has anyone here installed this kit on a FACTORY POWER BRAKE CAR?  I know some have on a NON, but that won't apply to my situation as the pedal setups are different.

[Animal]

I'm glad my post could be so helpful to both of you.  Maybe someday someone will help me and my problem.  I know SSBC won't. 

Oh well, maybe I'll rip this crappy system off and Ebay it.  Then I can afford the other kit from Master Power Brakes.....

Sorry to hijack your post,but at the same time it must of been of great help to you,as it was for me,as we seem to have the same set up.does it really matter at the end of the day.I hope you sort your problem out if not already.Adam.

[Animal]

Blue 69,I have the same master as you show,also changed the lines over today as Ron pointed out,rear resevoir front brake line,what a difference,the wheels lock up.Am i right in saying the brakes are better when hot,as they don't work as well when cold.Maybe something to do with SSBC pads. .Ps Looked @ the site again,from what i can make out,the 65/35 bias means you have more power to the front resevoir,which means I am now going to get more power to the back brakes.Should I have swapped them round .Thanks Adam

[mopar1968]

I'm glad my post could be so helpful to both of you.  Maybe someday someone will help me and my problem.  I know SSBC won't. 

Oh well, maybe I'll rip this crappy system off and Ebay it.  Then I can afford the other kit from Master Power Brakes.....

Sorry to hijack your post,but at the same time it must of been of great help to you,as it was for me,as we seem to have the same set up.does it really matter at the end of the day.I hope you sort your problem out if not already.Adam.

You don't have to apologize.  I was using my bucket of sarcasm.  Seams I have buckets and buckets of the stuff.

[mopar1968]

Blue 69,I have the same master as you show,also changed the lines over today as Ron pointed out,rear resevoir front brake line,what a difference,the wheels lock up.Am i right in saying the brakes are better when hot,as they don't work as well when cold.Maybe something to do with SSBC pads. ???Thanks to all.

So, what did you do exactly?  Did you change the Master Cylinder to.... what??  4bolt - 2bolt??  Front line to where and rear to where??  What difference before and after??

Thanks!!  I'm sooooooo frustrated right now.  Silly me, I buy a kit and it seams I have to engineer it to work.

[Animal]

Blue 69,I have the same master as you show,also changed the lines over today as Ron pointed out,rear resevoir front brake line,what a difference,the wheels lock up.Am i right in saying the brakes are better when hot,as they don't work as well when cold.Maybe something to do with SSBC pads. ???Thanks to all.

So, what did you do exactly?  Did you change the Master Cylinder to.... what??  4bolt - 2bolt??  Front line to where and rear to where??  What difference before and after??

Thanks!!  I'm sooooooo frustrated right now.  Silly me, I buy a kit and it seams I have to engineer it to work.

I am also confused,I've since read about 65/35 bias on master.Is this 65 to front or rear resevoir,cause if its rear i am OK,if fronts ive got the rears running off this one now.I wait in antisipation.Thanks Adam

[blue69]

Animal, it looks like chevy's of that era used front brakes->front resevoir. Take a look at this '71 nova disc/drum master . If the fronts are locking up first, it sounds like it is hooked up right. It's possible the rears are locking up first because the rear calipers have smaller piston's and take less volume. I don't know if ssbc uses the same master cylinder as the link I posted, so it is best to check with them to see which port belongs to the front or rear.

[mopar1968]

It looks like chevy's of that era used front brakes->front resevoir. Take a look at this '71 nova disc/drum master . If the fronts are locking up first, it sounds like it is hooked up right. It's possible the rears are locking up first because the rear calipers have smaller piston's and take less volume. I don't know if ssbc uses the same master cylinder as the link I posted, so it is best to check with them to see which port belongs to the front or rear.

I think we are getting off here.  The Master Cylinder available for the Charger (4bolt mounting flange) is only 1 choice.  There are no other choices.  If you order the SSBC kit for a manual brake car, you get the booster master cylinder combo from them (2bolt flange). 

I don't think everyone trying to help knows this.  The SSBC for a Manual Brake car comes with a Booster and their Master (equal bowls).  The SSBC for a Power car comes only with a Master for a 73-76 car (big bowl toward booster, small toward front of car).

WIth either Master, you can not change the order in which the lines connect.  With the 73-76 Mopar Master the lines connect one way, and with the SSBC Master the lines are reversed.   BOTH masters have plenty of fulid storage.  I've tried both masters with the correct boosters just for kicks, and it makes absolutely no difference.  The car stops the same, like crap.

For an original power brake car, you can NOT bolt a chevy master cylinder to it.  For a non power car, with the SSBC booster it may be possible.  I'm not using that one, I'm using my factory booster.  SSBC only sells 1 master for original power brake cars (4bolt flange).  You can get them chromed or polished, but it is the same master.

[blue69]

mopar1968 if you are running the factory 4 wheel drum booster take a look at this post http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,1774.0.html . NYCMille said he was only getting 400-600 psi with the stock drum booster. Disc brakes need 1200-1400 psi. I was never happy with my brakes when I had front disc/rear drum and a factory 4 wheel drum booster. It was never able to lock the brakes. I never checked the pressure, but I suspect it was too low.

[mopar1968]

mopar1968 if you are running the factory 4 wheel drum booster take a look at this post http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,1774.0.html . NYCMille said he was only getting 400-600 psi with the stock drum booster. Disc brakes need 1200-1400 psi. I was never happy with my brakes when I had front disc/rear drum and a factory 4 wheel drum booster. It was never able to lock the brakes. I never checked the pressure, but I suspect it was too low.

I agree.  That is the only thing left to check.  The actual psi at the calipers.  It's just a shame.  SSBC assured me this kit will bolt to my car, using the factory (rebuilt) booster, and a master cylinder for a later model disc brake car.  Vacuum is good at 16+ and everything is installed per the instructions.

I'll put my gauge on it this weekend.  It's too hot this week (110 in Bakersfield, CA) and the heat ads to the frustrations.  I was leaning toward additional vacuum boost but was hoping someone would pop in with "turn this screw" or "add this easy piece".  I should have known better with these Mopars.

Thanks to all who racked their brains for me.  I'll post an update once the psi is checked and additional boost is added if needed.

[firefighter3931]

Firefighter3931 , if he is using 4 wheel disc, the front and rear resevoirs should be about the same size. The reason the resevoir for the front is bigger on disc/drum is because disc brakes are self adjusting and as the pads in the caliper wear out the piston's stationary position moves and takes up more fluid. On a all wheel disc master cylinder both resevoirs are large. If the master cylinder looks like this, http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NOS-67-76-CORVETTE-MASTER-CYLINDER-W-POWER-BRAKES_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ34199QQihZ007QQitemZ170009999469QQrdZ1 it should work. Most kits use a corvette master cylinder for 4 wheel disc conversions. One thing to keep in mind is the corvette master cylinder has the brake port sizes backwards (9/16" for the front brakes and  1/2" for the rear)  compared a mopar. I think the front brakes should be connected to the port closest to the booster on both, but you should double check with ssbc. The bore size is usually 1 1/8" on 4 wheel disc kits.

EDIT: I looked it up at http://www.hydratechbraking.com/products/mastercylinders.html . On a corvette master cylinder the front port goes to the front brakes and the rear port goes to the rear brakes. This is opposite of a mopar master cylinder in which front port goes to the rear brakes and the rear port goes to the front brakes. The site says there is a 65/35 split between the front and rear volume delivered so it could make a big difference if it was reversed.

Thanks Blue...you are right. For some reason i was thinking Adam had drum brakes on the back. Thanks for pointing that out.


Ron

[firefighter3931]

Blue 69,I have the same master as you show,also changed the lines over today as Ron pointed out,rear resevoir front brake line,what a difference,the wheels lock up.Am i right in saying the brakes are better when hot,as they don't work as well when cold.Maybe something to do with SSBC pads. .Ps Looked @ the site again,from what i can make out,the 65/35 bias means you have more power to the front resevoir,which means I am now going to get more power to the back brakes.Should I have swapped them round .Thanks Adam

That's good news Adam....sounds like a huge improvement.  The pads may need a little time to break in especially when everything is new. Chris (6t9charger) reported that his brakes felt better after a little run time on the system...

Now if we could get Mopar1968's brakes sorted out all would be good.  I'll be interested to hear what happens with the new master cylinder from SS brakes. The line pressure test should help sort things out.


Ron

[mopar1968]

Blue 69,I have the same master as you show,also changed the lines over today as Ron pointed out,rear resevoir front brake line,what a difference,the wheels lock up.Am i right in saying the brakes are better when hot,as they don't work as well when cold.Maybe something to do with SSBC pads. .Ps Looked @ the site again,from what i can make out,the 65/35 bias means you have more power to the front resevoir,which means I am now going to get more power to the back brakes.Should I have swapped them round .Thanks Adam

That's good news Adam....sounds like a huge improvement.  The pads may need a little time to break in especially when everything is new. Chris (6t9charger) reported that his brakes felt better after a little run time on the system...

Now if we could get Mopar1968's brakes sorted out all would be good.  I'll be interested to hear what happens with the new master cylinder from SS brakes. The line pressure test should help sort things out.


Ron

There is no MC coming from SSBC anymore.  I have the one they kept referring to as "special" for their kit.  It just took 4 phone calls to the right person to verify this.  They sell the exact same MC as the auto parts store does for 73-76 Monoco.  SSBC just charges $95+ for theirs versus $40 for Autozone NEW, not rebuilt, MC.  Sometimes it takes a while to find an honest person at these companies. 

I'm at the end of testing, as the pressure at the calipers is the only thing left to check.  SSBC should have put a warning on their product that it will not work with a stock booster unless you have 26+ of vacuum like Baer did for NYCMille.  It just shows the difference in technical knowledge from one company to another.  Just because you find a rotor that fits, and make some brackets for some calipers that "should" work, doesn't mean the kit is "engineered". 

Baer knows this and that is why they manufacturer all their own pieces.  I know what company I'm using on my ElCamino build up.  Hopefully, that is my problem.  A hydroboost setup is needed or vacuum pump.  At least I might be able to drive this Charger with piece of mind some day.

[NYCMille]

You have a PM.

[DJF]

Hello,

Did anyone find a solution for this problem as I have exactly the same fault as Mopar 1968.
I have the A155 Rear disc Brake kit and the Front A156-2 Kit on my OE Power braked car. I have checked everything twice I have a booster with 25" of vacume I jump on the brakes with enough force I feel my knee cap wanting to escape my leg and smack me in the chops and the car begins to slow. Thats it! no wheels locking! I cant bring this car to a sharp stop even at 5mph. Im so frustrated.

If anyone has any more info please let me know

Thanks
Daryl

[Mick70RR]

Just wait until your first panic stop from 120MPH. I don't think the SSBC brake kit is up to the job, simple as that. If I could afford it, I would swap it out for a better kit but until then I'll just have to take it easy and keep my distance.

[mauve66]

just found this thread and read with great interest, my car was originally a 4 drum power brake car

i also got SSBC rear kit and the A156 front kit (directions also say A156-2, doesn't state a difference)

i got this kit from Mancini Racing  (their add didn't say anything about power or manual brakes) and installed it 7-8 years ago (the car has seen less than 20 miles since then), following the directions i used a replacement/rebuilt 66 booster from AutoZone and the MC that came with the kit (both reservoirs are the same size), after bench bleeding the MC and bleeding the calipers 4-5 times i have an extremely hard pedal that will barely bring the car to a stop from 10 MPH.  Since the rest of the car wasn't up to snuff i thought it would work itself out i was able to use it on a regular basis.  still the same pedal after all this time.  I had never called SSBC thinking it was just me.  I bought this kit due to some mag articles saying how good they were.

does anybody have a pic of the pedal linkage comparing a power brake car to a manual car?? all i get from this thread is that this may be our only way out other than scrapping the whole system
i've been told over the years that it would have to do with the pushrod length but none of those discussions had an absolute answer either

this thread is over 3 years old so i'm hoping there has been a solution for the masses??