video of the chaos in New Orleans

[Stormhammer]

http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/us/2005/09/02/feyerick.katrina.baton.rouge.affl

the govt needs to act faster - I know there's the Florida Airboat Assoc. on standby just WAITING fo rthe go ahead

but last night while at a pizzaria a big group of firefighters were there having their "last meal"

I overheard them that the station head guy ordered all that weren't on duty that time ( so those who are on duty that night are on for a good while ) to New Orleans (without authorization too!) - trust me guys- it looked like a freaking convoy leaving that place - help is coming 

[Silver R/T]

thats really f'd up... strange how Bush finds all this money to go over to other countries but he cant help his own.

[twilt]

Silver R/T , every time you involve youself in any topic that involves Pres Bush, you make it very clear what an IGNORANT ASSHOLE that you really are. The situation down there is a tradgedy . IGNORANT ASSHOLES such as yourself  taking opportunity in situations like this to further their political views is shameful.   You digust me.  I feel it A shame  that you are an AMERICAN CITIZEN.  Why dont you get off your dead ass and do something positive to help the tragic situation rather that sitting on your ass complaining?

[Stormhammer]

thats really f'd up... strange how Bush finds all this money to go over to other countries but he cant help his own.

just pay attention to the news, like, 500 million is going to the disaster - it just sucks because even in a disaster like this it has to be all organized and you have to get approval to help and that

I think we just fight the system and go and arrive with a big hello we're here to help, tell me what to do i

[twilt]

500 million?   Congress approved 10.5 billion dollars and Pres Bush stated that this was just a start.
If you really want to help,  donating your time or money to the Red Cross or Salvation Army are good ideas.
...................Silver R/T ask your mom if you can borrow 10 bux and donate it to the Red Cross.

[Lowprofile]

My company has donated the use of 5 Tractor/Trailers to the Red Cross to bring in supplies. We were scheduled to play shows both in New Orleans and Biloxi this Month. The arena in Biloxi is nothing more than toothpicks now, and The UNO Lakefront arena is under 10 ft of water.
I have friends in Biloxi. I hope they're ok.

BTW, WWE is going to donate $1 million to the relief effort.

[Stormhammer]

500 million?     Congress approved 10.5 billion dollars and Pres Bush stated that this was just a start.
If you really want to help,   donating your time or money to the Red Cross or Salvation Army are good ideas.
...................Silver R/T ask your mom if you can borrow 10 bux and donate it to the Red Cross.

I probably misread or there was a typo in what I read " 0.5 billion " so yea lol

[Silver R/T]

Silver R/T , every time you involve youself in any topic that involves Pres Bush, you make it very clear what an IGNORANT ASSHOLE that you really are. The situation down there is a tradgedy . IGNORANT ASSHOLES such as yourself taking opportunity in situations like this to further their political views is shameful. You digust me. I feel it A shame that you are an AMERICAN CITIZEN. Why dont you get off your dead ass and do something positive to help the tragic situation rather that sitting on your ass complaining?

did you do something?

[Telvis]

Come on guys. We don't have to resort to personal attacks. I think everyone would like more to be done with hurricane relief. I don't think anyone in a position of power is purposely witholding help. Turning this into a political argument doesn't benefit anyone. This is a great forum with a bunch of great people. If we start spewing venom at each other it ruins it for everyone. We all have gone through a lot to stay together and keep this forum running. Troy and others have worked hard to make this a friendly place for all of us. Lets not ruin it now.

[MichaelRW]

I think things would have gone a lot better if there had been some Rudy Guiliani type guy in charge.

[twilt]

did you do something?

Yes,  i have put my money where my mouth is and contributed to the Red Cross.

[last426]

This government's response is pitiful, absolutely pitiful.  And Bush's handlers could not be worse.  What I think should have been done, and I suggested this a couple of days ago, is to issue a presidential edict directing all commercial busing companies East of the Missssiippi to suspend operations for 5 days (sure, some people wanting to travel would be inconvenienced but that can be dealt with with a simple "sharing the pain" comment).  Have the companies use their own dispatchers and schedulers and start going to a list of the hardest hit areas to pick up survivors.  Either pay the bus companies or, better still, shame them into providing the service.  Meanwhile, enlist the support of a website like Craigslist or even make a gov site and ask people throughout the country to volunteer to put up a family for 3 months.  Have the buses pick up provisions on the way to pick up the passengers, make sure they have bathrooms, and have each bus go to a different area of the country.  The diesel they used could be replaced in the future.  Oh, and make the speech somewhere near the area with a short sleeve shirt on.  Tell him not to mention people like Trent Lott or whoever he mentioned this morning about losing their home and then rebuilding -- people don't relate to that.  People relate to a guy rolling up his sleeves and doing something, not discussing help that is expected.  No more photo opts with him looking out the window of his jet as he flies 2,500 feet above the disaster -- that is the worst thing to do.

But he did none of that -- it was like he was reading that book to the rest of the county but now instead of 7 minutes it's been 5 days.  Shame.  Kim

[Charger_Fan]

Kim, this may be a small part of the reason Bush is staying the hell out of there...and after reading it, I think I would too.
This was posted on another board & I may regret sharing this, but I'm currently too pissed to care.

This is an accounting of what went down this week from a guy sent in with a search & rescue dog to help out. This same guy was also at the WTC on 9-11 & elsewhere, he said this situation was far worse. This isn't the glossed-over stuff we're being fed on TV.

WARNING, there is profanity in this link...sorry, the world isn't perfect...especially today.  If anyone is offended, plug your ears.

http://www.labusas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=69737

The fact that this can happen in our own country is just beyond my comprehension.

[Lowprofile]

Thanks for that link, Charger Fan.

last426;
Its always easy to blame the Govt. for your problems. How about Personal Responsibility? Common Sense? Moral Obligations to your Fellow Man? Did all levels of our govt make mistakes....yes. The govt is made up of people, and as you well know, we are not perfect.

BTW, Did you get your talking points from Michael Moore? You shouldn't wear your Liberalism on your sleeve.

[bull]

Thanks for that link, Charger Fan.

last426;
Its always easy to blame the Govt. for your problems. How about Personal Responsibility? Common Sense? Moral Obligations to your Fellow Man? Did all levels of our govt make mistakes....yes. The govt is made up of people, and as you well know, we are not perfect.

BTW, Did you get your talking points from Michael Moore? You shouldn't wear your Liberalism on your sleeve.

I'm so tired of hearing people whine about how the govt. should be doing everything for them. Grow up, learn how to wipe your own butt and tie your own shoes. Don't sit around on your fat butt wiating for a check in the mail, get out and make good on the American dream. I can understand that we (not necessarily the govt.) need to help people with physical limitations or TEMPORARY help when they're down and out but there are far too many able-bodied people in this country who are far too comfortable with taking handouts their entire life.

[HalfastAMX]

Bull, youve put it in a nutshell. Besides, if i knew that Mt Ranier was going to blow, do you think i would hang out and wait for help when i live 30 miles from the summit?
Given warning, most intelligent folks would find a way to clear out.
Dont get me wrong, i wish there was something i could do besides donate.

Talk about a black mark on the record of our government, the rescue efforts should have been staged and ready to move the second that storm had cleared...............

Pissed and ashamed....................

[Troy]

Could the situation have been handled differently? Yes. Could the rescue/recovery efforts gone better? Yes, but they could go a lot better now if they weren't being shot at, robbed, blocked, and attacked. When teams leave because it's unsafe or you have to divert rescuers in order to keep the peace it makes a bad situation that much worse. Honestly, would you expect the military have to take over just so rescue teams don't get killed while helping people? Did anyone have a plan in place to relocate nearly a million people for months? I'm sure there will be a whole string of investigations to place the blame on anyone and everyone but right now people just need to do their jobs instead of accusing everyone but themselves. There were major failures on a lot of levels but it doesn't look like anyone here was in on any of the meetings or knows exactly why certain decisions were made. It's easy to pick apart the progress or analyzing events with 20/20 hindsight when sitting thousands of miles away watching tv in the air conditioning.

Troy

[John_Kunkel]

In a Rose Garden statement yesterday, Chicken George acknowledged that the response time was "not acceptable".

In a frenzy to place the blame, Michael Chertoff will most likely be crucified; thus deflecting the blame from Bush.

[BigBlockSam]

i am a proud American . the government's response was terrible. other countries offered help and the where kept on hold for 48 hours. the situation got desperate. thats why all the trouble started with shouting and looting. if the people could see some hope, it wouldn't have gotten so ugly. i hope we learn something from this and are better prepared for the next disaster. Rene

[derailed]

I just dont understand why they are saying they never expected the levys to break. They had been warned prior to this that a major situation like this would happen in that city sooner or later. Scary part is hurricane season doesnt really start until sept. 15

[bull]

In a Rose Garden statement yesterday, Chicken George acknowledged that the response time was "not acceptable".

In a frenzy to place the blame, Michael Chertoff will most likely be crucified; thus deflecting the blame from Bush.

If we're going to blame politicians we may as well add New Orleans mayor Ray Nagin and Governor Kathleen Blanco to the list. All these city and state officials are supposed to have taken steps to assure prompt and adequate emergency responses to such disasters but New Orleans and Louisiana basically just fell on their faces within hours. I'm not defending Bush, because it was a mistake for he and FEMA to wait, but the state and region should have done way more than they did. They should have torn a page from the book of Rudy Juliani but apparently it was more fun for them to whine and cry about their dilemma.

[Steve P.]

I agree that Heine sight is 20/20.. I also think that a very high percentage of people will look at hurricanes as a little bit bigger gun than they have in the past..

Here in Florida people are tired of hear, (HUNKER DOWN). I know I am too!! I hear from people all the time that they are not leaving even though we are standing in the path of a huge storm or hurricane..

1998 hurricane George was headed our way. They said the chances were good that the Tampa Bay area was going to be blasted.. I hooked up the 5th wheel and loaded in the family.. I asked many of my friends if they were leaving.. All said NO.. I then heard every excuse in the book.

Been there, done that..
Lived here all my life and I'm going to die here too..
Can't leave my business..
I've seen this before. We are NOT going to get hit..

You name it!!

Well my family had a very nice time in Northern Florida for the weekend.. We played games and listened to the radio..
Of course back then I had the ways and means to do about anything. Why not just be safe??  Today things are a bit different for us.. We are not broke.. We are BROKEN.. My wife has MS. I have a bad back.. Things just are not as cut and dry as they once were..

What I am trying to say is that not all the people that were stuck there had a GOOD choice. Until I wrecked my back I was living the American dream.. (I won't get into the BS labor laws here). Now my American savings account is gone. All my old American dream toys are gone.. My big American house is gone.. I'm in the red a bit due to my MOPAR dreams, but I am far from BROKE..
The thing is, I too worry about some of these storms that come close. Katrina could have turned into us easily!!  BUT, it would be much harder for me to just leave these days and I have a big truck..

You can't just lump everyone into the same category and lay down the blame. Many of those people didn't have GOOD choices. Some had no choice. Some stayed to protect what they had and yes, some stayed to rob everything they could find.. Hell, I guarantee you that hundreds if not thousands of them were homeless BEFORE the storm!!! 

You will find this everywhere. Watch and see how many people are steeling money on E-Bay and through phone calls and on the street corners, saying they are collecting for the victims..


Another thing that gets me.. How does anyone here know that some, all, many, most or none of those people didn't work for a living???  Maybe they all did!! Maybe they had shitty jobs that they were afraid to lose if they bugged out!!!!!  I haven't heard anyone here or on the news bring that up..

[derailed]

Steve i see where your coming from. Alot of these people down there are being portrayed as animals that are doing the looting and im sure some of them are just that. I cant say i know what they are going through because i dont, Ive never dealt with something like this and hope i never do, but if me and my family had gone days without eating or drinking or maybe even watch some of them die and no help in sight i think i would turn a little loopy and do God knows what.

[Steve P.]

I hear ya.. I am just pissed that it took sooo long to get in there and show that the help was coming.. I know that it's not exactly the same there as here. They flooded over night.. That's a lame excuse.. When 4 hurricanes came through here last year FEMA was on the ground running.. We have been through the flooding over and over. (Not to that extent).. BUT, other than NOT BEING ABLE TO FIX THE HANGING CHAD, somehow the GOV. is right here getting things done..

Do you think it has anything to do with blood relatives??

[derailed]

I

Do you think it has anything to do with blood relatives??

Dont want to offend anyone so i wont even comment

[Lowprofile]

I

Do you think it has anything to do with blood relatives??

Dont want to offend anyone so i wont even comment

God Forbid, The Guy did a Good Job. That just couldn't be right? Naw.

BTW, No offence taken. This is America. Feel free to speak your mind. Its all good.

[derailed]

I



God Forbid, The Guy did a Good Job. That just couldn't be right? Naw.

BTW, No offence taken. This is America. Feel free to speak your mind. Its all good.

hey if everyone saw it that way i would but this isnt the place for it.

[Steve P.]

[quote
Do you think it has anything to do with blood relatives??

I mean that GW Bush and JEB Bush are brothers. When Jeb needs something he just makes a call..

Really, Jeb Bush for the most part, does a very good job here.. I don't agree with everything he does but, I think we would have seen a very different attack on getting help into the area to help right away..

I also watched on FOX News this morning, many reporters from other countries saying that they cannot believe the way our government has been acting. Rather the creep of the action.. One said that, ( it's as though the US. government is wearing clay shoes).

[Troy]

The Federal Government waits on the local and state government to ask for help - they can't just send it. Therefore, the governor of *every* state has to ask. There are procedures for all of this but probably not a proper "Disaster Recovery" scenario since this one is a bit unique.

There is so much bureaucracy and red tape involved in getting these things moving that it's rediculous. The local guy has to ask the governor who has to ask the feds who have to forward the request to a central command who has to ask the Pentagon who has sign an order and forward that to the commander in charge of the operation who has to organize a task force who has to deploy and wait for instructions from the local/state guys once they get there. I think I missed a few steps too.

This is being called the "worst natural disaster in history" (but I think they mean *America's history*). The area affected, 90,000 square miles, is almost as large as the entire UK and affected more than 5 million people. There were more than 1 million people who had to be evacuated due to the hurricane and flooding. Damage due to the storm was reported in 12 states. Remember that people in other nations are only seeing what's on the news and the spectacular reporting that goes along with it. I know for a fact that there were military units in the area within 24 hours from the time they were called. The Red Cross was there almost immediately (and had helped over 70,000 people through Thursday). The emergency funds were ok'd without even calling a session of Congress. The Army Corps of Engineers were tackling the levy problems within 2 days if I remember correctly. Many relief teams were in the area within 72 hours. The ships that were on the way obviously couldn't hang out in the Gulf during the hurricane so they still had to travel around Florida to get there. Remember, it hasn't even been a week (August 29 for Katrina and August 30 for the levies breaking) and the conditions for mobility and rescue are less than ideal (flooding, debris, NO communications, armed resistance, etc.). There were some Tsunami victims who didn't see help for months and I'm tired of seeing comparisons to that.

Could certain things have been accomplished differently or possibly faster? Yes, but I'm sure we'll learn about all of it once the congressional hearings start. It's a tragedy and there are many things that won't be handled perfectly. This is going to take months to clean up and probably years to recover from.

Some info (from September 1st):
http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/interapp/press_release/press_release_0721.xml

Troy

[last426]

There is so much bureaucracy and red tape involved in getting these things moving that it's rediculous. The local guy has to ask the governor who has to ask the feds who have to forward the request to a central command who has to ask the Pentagon who has sign an order and forward that to the commander in charge of the operation who has to organize a task force who has to deploy and wait for instructions from the local/state guys once they get there. I think I missed a few steps too.

My point exactly and that is where Bush failed so miserably.  By presidential edict he would have easily avoided all the levels of bureacracy and directed action.  He didn't step up but rather loomed in the shadows hiding behind his cabinet waiting for those bureacrats to make the decisions.  And, as you point out, those decisions take a long time to come.  Meanwhile, people are suffering.  C'mon, the head of homeland security telling Nightline that his agency first found out about people at the convention center on Wednesday (it might even have been Thhursday, I can't remember).  That's unacceptable. 

As I said in my other post, the power needed to be consolidated in one person, the president.  Then he needed to make decisions -- not blind decisions but ones that relied on his advisors.  Believe me that there are a lot of civil service career people (not the political appointees that he is surrounded with) who knew what to do, just like the career people in the fbi who were shot down by political appointees' vetos in the 911 thing. Kim

[Troy]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the power shift to FEMA as soon as the President declares a national emergency (ie. via a Presidential edict)? I haven't researched it much but I can't remember a time where the President has assumed all decision making power in an emergency. Maybe there has been some precedent but I honestly don't know.

Troy

[Steve P.]

I think it's great that so many of us care about this and I'm sure very many changes will be made in light of this catastrophe. I just wish our leader would, (and I think should), make an immediate appearance and show these people that America cares and will be there for them.. It looks terrible to the entire world that he takes so long to move his feet... 

Chain of command starts at the top.. If the PRESIDENT says move, I'm sure everything starts moving at that point. Regardless of who else is where!!

At least that is what my military training taught me...