Why the word "restructuring" take place of "screwing the little guy"?

[70charginglizard]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070214/ap_on_bi_ge/chrysler_restructuring



Sad. Bet there not laying off any of there German counterparts.

[Orange_Crush]

They're cutting (at least) 1,000 white collar jobs as well.

Two years ago there were fairly extensicve job cuts at Mercedes-Benz as well.

You do what you gotta do to survive.

[pettyfan43]

The main problem that american car makers have is the way they have always done business. Making as many cars as they can push out the door. MORE MORE MORE and they are getting a glut of new vehicles. At the same time they are making new vehicles easier and easier to buy or as a lot of people are doing, LEASE. So now there are TON of NICE off lease vehicles showing up on lots as used vehicles.

A LOT of people are buying the off lease vehicles. I bought my 04 Ram in August. It had 21k then, was in new condition, and was 12-13k CHEAPER than a new comparable 06. Even with discounts, it was a lot cheaper than a new truck, PLUS I got a "bumper to bumper" 100k warranty because it was "certified pre owned" by Dodge/Chrysler. Why the hell WOULD I buy a brand new 06? I got the Hemi, towing package, NICE interior, Sure grip diff and a hi def Infinity stereo! I just added a spray in Line X liner (the bed was just about perfect) and have enjoyed it for 14 thousand miles now! I didn't get the 20" wheels but THAT IS FINE, I have seen what tires cost for those!
I have a buddy whose dad had a truck just about identical to mine except for the color, VERY nice truck, clean with the same equipment as mine. a few weeks ago, he traded his nice 04 with 42K on it for a new 07 4X4! The 07 is about 30 bucks cheaper a month.

Sometimes I don't understand people!

The car makers have don this to themselves to a degree with this kind of business practice. People are just taking the less expensive way of doing this.

[hemihead]

People complain about laying off american workers then get uptight about Labor Unions and buy a Jap car.That's what I can't figure out.We make our own beds.

[472 R/T SE]

   wholeheartedly.

[70charginglizard]

People complain about laying off american workers then get uptight about Labor Unions and buy a Jap car.That's what I can't figure out.We make our own beds.

I'm an American worker and I own only demestic vehicles.

Problem here is not the complaining american workers. Problem here is gready little corporate "you know what's" that won't take paycuts themselve's to there multi-million dollar salaries to make up for the problems that they are the main cause of. (corporate scandals, bad bussiness decisions...etc)

I see it all the time here at place I work at. Corporate makes mistakes all the time and then they come back and force all the people below them to take ethics training and such and the next thing you know. Some other corporate guy sleeps with a secretary or something stupids like that and causes the stock to plummit.

What kind of example does that set???

[Charger_Fan]

  wholeheartedly.

...meanwhile Toyota continues reporting record profits; http://www.caranddriver.com/dailyautoinsider/11100/toyota-reports-record-profits.html
Don't give me any "but Toyota's are made in the US" crap, either.

*EDIT* Here's one from this month; http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/07/business/06cnd-auto.html?ex=1328504400&en=cd0e4f6fd8c6ad61&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

[Brock Samson]

our $ are going to Germany and Japan face it...

BTW i did the lease return thing and saved $15,000 on my 300 M.

[Shakey]

I get tired of hearing about the "us vs. them" mentality when it comes to the blue collar vs. the white collar.  This has been happening for the past 100 years.  Certainly as a young child you would have heard about this at one point and time.  I did, which prompted me to get a career where I am in control of my own destiny and not someone else.  The last thing I wanted for my family was to shudder everytime a news release came out about job cuts.

I'd also agree with the others.  We here in North America want it all, but we don't want to pay for it.   
      

[70charginglizard]

I get tired of hearing about the "us vs. them" mentality when it comes to the blue collar vs. the white collar.  This has been happening for the past 100 years.  Certainly as a young child you would have heard about this at one point and time.  I did, which prompted me to get a career where I am in control of my own destiny and not someone else.  The last thing I wanted for my family was to shudder everytime a news release came out about job cuts.

I'd also agree with the others.  We here in North America want it all, but we don't want to pay for it.   
      

I just get tired of us having to pay for there stupid mistakes. It's just messed up. They never want to admit it when they are the  cause of the problems. They just blame everyone else below them for it.
When I make a mistake. I admit fault and do what I have to do to fix it. I don't blame it on the guy below me.
Thats what I'm taking about. I'd just like to see them taking responsibility for there own actions and quit trying to blame everyone else for it.

[hemihead]

I think you will live to see a day in this country when nothing is made or built here.This will be a country of white collar paper shufflers.Why?Because corporate America is so greedy they farm out work or build plants overseas for labor they can pay $.50 a day.Nobody cares or complains... until THEY get laid off.Wait until white collar America starts to take a hit, then the crying will start.

[Troy]

It's always easier to blame someone else...

Troy

[Ponch ®]

I think you will live to see a day in this country when nothing is made or built here.This will be a country of white collar paper shufflers.Why?Because corporate America is so greedy they farm out work or build plants overseas for labor they can pay $.50 a day.Nobody cares or complains... until THEY get laid off.Wait until white collar America starts to take a hit, then the crying will start.

no, it'll be because major manufacturers will be no longer viable when labor unions keep laying on them burdensome demands that cripple them. Seriously...does anyone really need $20 an hour + benefits  to bolt on Silverado bumpers all day?

My last two cars have been "domestics" - the Charger and the Monte Carlo, both built in the All-American city of Ontario Canada.  My mom drives a Camry - guess where it came from...Osaka? Mexico? Canada?...nope...good ol' Kentucky.

[Shakey]

My last two cars have been "domestics" - the Charger and the Monte Carlo, both built in the All-American city of Ontario Canada.  My mom drives a Camry - guess where it came from...Osaka? Mexico? Canada?...nope...good ol' Kentucky.

pssst- Ontario is a province, just like California is a state.   

Your Monte was built in Oshawa and your Charger was made in Brampton.

One of my buddies helped build your Charger.  He is an assembly line worker who made around $80,000.00 CDN last year.  He is not concerned about the layoffs as he has seniority at the plant and if he does get laid off, he will collect unemployment insurance for a while.  He has paid off his house so he does not worry about too much.  He was/is smart with his money because he knows he has a job that could change at any time.

[Neal_J]

The U.S made its own bed.  The restructuring required today results from factors that are decades old:

First, the U.S. has been the world leader in technology.  With the increase in robotics, a lot fewer workers are needed than back when our Chargers were built.  Those remaining workers must posess technical skills to run the robotics lines. The reality is that most U.S. "blue collar" manufacturing jobs are a thing of the past and all will be done in China. 

Second, despite decades of lax mismangement, U.S. auto manufactures still produce secondary quality compared to Toyota or Honda.   As Oldsmobile learned, reputation doesn't count for much if folks won't buy your crappy cars.

Third, another significant factor is the hefty retirement benfits paid to former workers which adds $3,000 to the price of every U.S. car.  Unions fought for those benefits (like defined benefit pension plans) in prior decades.  The extremely cost of these benefits means that many current union workers will lose their jobs.

It's simple economics.   Sad but simple.

So tell you kids to go to college and max out their 401(k)s thereafter because times have surely changed.

Neal

[RTPTRON]

No one has mentioned what happened to the stock price after the announcement.  It spiked up $5.33 to $69.78.  Back in the day before they added Chrysler to their holdings their stock was trading in the mid $80s.  I feel bad for the loss of 13,000 jobs but I plan to take my profits.

In many ways public companies are a conflict of interest.  What is good for the stock holders is seldom good for the customers and employees of a company.  Public companies are forced to cater to the stock holders first and then their customers and finally their employees.  They have to try and focus long term while working very hard to report a good number every three months.  Companies operating in some other countries have an advantage because of things like cheap labor, nationally funded health care and pension plans.  Growth is a big deal in the market and US companies are struggling to break single digits.

Sorry but this crap is not fair to any of us, we (small guys) and them (Big Wigs).  We all have our issues.

[hemihead]

I keep hearing the same crap all the time about the union guy who makes $20 an hour being the bad guy, it's all his and the union's fault. That's BS.Let's talk about the greed of Corporate America, the white collar worker wasting company time playing around on the internet when they should be working,stock options and multi- million dollar bonuses.This IS one messed up society.And the people who think bolting on bumpers on an assembly line all day is not a job worth $20 an hour must be a desk jockey.

[Neal_J]

I beg to differ, it's not BS. 

Please help me understand how bolting on bumpers ($20/hr.) is any more complicated that flipping burgers at Wendy's ($5/hr)?  In my view, it surely isn't.   Union workers are not the bad guys per se, their wages are just out of line internationally for low-skill jobs.   Face facts folks: Chinese bumper bolters will do the exact same work for $1/day.  Those expecting to earn $20/hr are the ones who, unfortunately, are dilusional.  It may not seem fair, but that's the unavoidable global economic reality.  And it ain't gonna change. 

Oh and there's no Santa or Tooth Fairy...

Neal

[Brock Samson]

http://despair.com/discovery.html

[hemihead]

And shuffling papers,playing on the internet,answering a telephone or a thousand other mundane chores that white collar workers do is difficult?
They vastly overemphasize their value to a company.White collar workers think too highly of themselves.Without the blue collar labor making the product the white collar people wouldn't have jobs.And without those ' people flipping burgers' the white collar people would starve.Just because someone works blue collar doesn't make them less of a person.I suppose the guy doing body or mechanical work doesn't deserve the wages they make either.I guess you never did any labor jobs or you wouldn't say how EASY it is bolting on bumpers.Here is a little reality for you, the guy in China may be bolting on Bumpers for $1/day but it is the Stupid white collar worker paying out the rear for that recycled american steel ( which corporate america raises the price on).

[70charginglizard]

I beg to differ, it's not BS. 

Please help me understand how bolting on bumpers ($20/hr.) is any more complicated that flipping burgers at Wendy's ($5/hr)?  In my view, it surely isn't.   Union workers are not the bad guys per se, their wages are just out of line internationally for low-skill jobs.   Face facts folks: Chinese bumper bolters will do the exact same work for $1/day.  Those expecting to earn $20/hr are the ones who, unfortunately, are dilusional.  It may not seem fair, but that's the unavoidable global economic reality.  And it ain't gonna change. 

Oh and there's no Santa or Tooth Fairy...

Neal

Well if the salaries have to go down around here to help these companies compete in a global market, then the Cost of living should be forced to go down as well so we can live on those $1.00/hour salaries here?

[hemihead]

I beg to differ, it's not BS. 

Please help me understand how bolting on bumpers ($20/hr.) is any more complicated that flipping burgers at Wendy's ($5/hr)?  In my view, it surely isn't.   Union workers are not the bad guys per se, their wages are just out of line internationally for low-skill jobs.   Face facts folks: Chinese bumper bolters will do the exact same work for $1/day.  Those expecting to earn $20/hr are the ones who, unfortunately, are dilusional.  It may not seem fair, but that's the unavoidable global economic reality.  And it ain't gonna change. 

Oh and there's no Santa or Tooth Fairy...

Neal

Well if the salaries have to go down around here to help these companies compete in a global market, then the Cost of living should be forced to go down as well so we can live on those $1.00/hour salaries here?

Oh Lord forbid, might have to layoff some of those white collar people....

[dkn1997]

And shuffling papers,playing on the internet,answering a telephone or a thousand other mundane chores that white collar workers do is difficult?
They vastly overemphasize their value to a company.White collar workers think too highly of themselves.Without the blue collar labor making the product the white collar people wouldn't have jobs.And without those ' people flipping burgers' the white collar people would starve.Just because someone works blue collar doesn't make them less of a person.I suppose the guy doing body or mechanical work doesn't deserve the wages they make either.I guess you never did any labor jobs or you wouldn't say how EASY it is bolting on bumpers.Here is a little reality for you, the guy in China may be bolting on Bumpers for $1/day but it is the Stupid white collar worker paying out the rear for that recycled american steel ( which corporate america raises the price on).

I'll tell you what, I have done both in a sense.  I was a service mechanic for a pool company for 15 years, pretty hard/brutal work.  2 years ago, I got promoted to manager.  It's not all shuffling papers and playing on the internet.  Just because you work at a desk does not mean you have an easier job.  physically...yes.  but it's harder in every other way.  I put in a ton more hours than the guys who now report to me. I get nagged by customers, my boss, and the guys who report to me. 
It's a symbiotic relationship.  so before you go shouting that management or white collar would be nowhere without labor, consider the other point of view;  If not for management "shuffling paper" all day, there would be no work to do.  If the guy who bolts bumpers on could make those decisions and function totally independently, then he can feel free to sell the car, design the bumper, buy the physical plant, pay the utility bills, negotiate with the bumper supplier and arrange to have that bumper giftwrapped and hand delivered to his work station...That's just as impossible as the manager being able to schedule/arrange for the work be out on the line runnign that air gun...

and it's plain ignorant to paint the picture of white collar jobs as just shuffling paper and playing grabass with secretaries all day.  Go do that job for a couple of years and say that.  Just the same, equally as bad to think that bolting bumpers on is a day at the beach. 

[Brock Samson]

supplied without comment..

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/02/14/state/n175558S64.DTL

related:

http://images.despair.com/products/demotivators/power.jpg

[hemihead]

Thank You Brock! Wow  They get probation and one CROOK gets a fine of $2.1 million and the other $410,000? No sweat, they will just pay it with the other money they stole before they got caught.That's your upstanding Corporate Execs for you.

[hemihead]

Oh yeah, and talk about the Unions stealing your money?These guys stole from everyone , but I guess that's ok because they are White collar.Hoffa at least did Hard time in a REAL prison.

[Brock Samson]

http://images.despair.com/products/demotivators/goals.jpg

[6pkrunner]

On a roll with the demotivational posters Brock....look a truck.

[skip68]

I wouldn't be in a union to save my life.  I think they all start out with a good intent but as time goes by they become money factories. I don't think that most workers need a union anymore.  Put your union due's in a 401k.  I know that some people that are uneducated may need a union to speak for them but come on now, times have changed and every union worker I've met hates it. In contracting gov. jobs, Union jobs set the pay scale and the guys making the money are the non-union workers that are paid well.  All I did was prevailing wage work for years in Ca. non-union and did just fine without having a ton of money (union due's) taken from my checks A.K.A. "PROTECTION MONEY".  Far as the Enron guy's, They should have a court ordered judgement on them for life or until every person that lost due to them has been payed back.  This was no mistake, the only reason they are'nt doing it today is because they got caught.    And I'm spent,  Chuck............

[Arigmaster]

The backbone of this country and every company are the people preforming "Skilled" trades and services, I believe those people should be compensated well for what they do. This business between white or blue collar positions or the us and them has become nothing more than an arena for finger pointing.

People in general will always want more for less no matter if it's in the employment world or consumer world. It all depends on how you look at it. Everyone wants a piece of "The American Dream" (nice house, white picket fence. etc.etc.) Then there are those who go "Big" and want the mansions, yachts, etc. etc...) The problem with some people is that they think they are just entitled to this for what ever reason and don't apply themselves or set personal goals of how they are going to get their piece.

There are opportunities out there for everyone but it just seems so much easier for some people to bitch and play the victim of "the man". Then there are others who are just plain greedy and will just "take" regardless of ethics or law.

This will always be a constant no matter what country or position in society a person has. People need to spend less time crying about, or blaming the other guy for their problems and step up to improve what they are doing for themselves. They also need to quit putting themselves above others to make themselves feel in charge or more important then the next guy. If a person is elevated to a position of responsibility they need to quit resting on their achievements that got them there and delegating their every task that they feel is now below them and start leading by example rather than dictation.

People also need to stop thinking like drones and look for better and more efficient ways of doing even the simple things. It's the more for less mentality that effects the very fiber of society on an employment and then on a consumer level.

I'm in a management position but it doesn't make me a white collar person, I have crews out in the field that answer to me as well as people in my facility that do as well...  If the work load for my crews flexes up or if the facilities people get overwhelmed does it mean I have to hire more people so that I don't have to get my hands dirty? Hell no! I am not above going in the trenches with my guys and busting ass. If a floor needs to be swept because the guy who usually does it is out helping someone else I'll do it... Too many people walk right past this stuff because they are so stuck on themselves and their ego's that they would walk right past it or worse... jump all over the guy who was normally doing it because it wasn't done without even stopping to think about the why's.

Yes, there are those that have worked for me and with me who try to steal time or do as little as possible but that doesn't last for very long in our world. I have an excellent group of people and we all watch out for eachother. Just because I may have the ultimate responsibility for my division, it doesn't mean I no longer have to be in touch. Every day is a learning experience, an opportunity, or a potential "aw shit".

How we deal with these things as individuals or as a team will deternine our "Worth" both in society and to ourselves.

Too many people have lost sight of these values....   Just my 

[skip68]

   Well said Arigmaster.   

[dkn1997]

The backbone of this country and every company are the people preforming "Skilled" trades and services, I believe those people should be compensated well for what they do. This business between white or blue collar positions or the us and them has become nothing more than an arena for finger pointing.

People in general will always want more for less no matter if it's in the employment world or consumer world. It all depends on how you look at it. Everyone wants a piece of "The American Dream" (nice house, white picket fence. etc.etc.) Then there are those who go "Big" and want the mansions, yachts, etc. etc...) The problem with some people is that they think they are just entitled to this for what ever reason and don't apply themselves or set personal goals of how they are going to get their piece.

There are opportunities out there for everyone but it just seems so much easier for some people to bitch and play the victim of "the man". Then there are others who are just plain greedy and will just "take" regardless of ethics or law.

This will always be a constant no matter what country or position in society a person has. People need to spend less time crying about, or blaming the other guy for their problems and step up to improve what they are doing for themselves. They also need to quit putting themselves above others to make themselves feel in charge or more important then the next guy. If a person is elevated to a position of responsibility they need to quit resting on their achievements that got them there and delegating their every task that they feel is now below them and start leading by example rather than dictation.

People also need to stop thinking like drones and look for better and more efficient ways of doing even the simple things. It's the more for less mentality that effects the very fiber of society on an employment and then on a consumer level.

I'm in a management position but it doesn't make me a white collar person, I have crews out in the field that answer to me as well as people in my facility that do as well...  If the work load for my crews flexes up or if the facilities people get overwhelmed does it mean I have to hire more people so that I don't have to get my hands dirty? Hell no! I am not above going in the trenches with my guys and busting ass. If a floor needs to be swept because the guy who usually does it is out helping someone else I'll do it... Too many people walk right past this stuff because they are so stuck on themselves and their ego's that they would walk right past it or worse... jump all over the guy who was normally doing it because it wasn't done without even stopping to think about the why's.

Yes, there are those that have worked for me and with me who try to steal time or do as little as possible but that doesn't last for very long in our world. I have an excellent group of people and we all watch out for eachother. Just because I may have the ultimate responsibility for my division, it doesn't mean I no longer have to be in touch. Every day is a learning experience, an opportunity, or a potential "aw shit".

How we deal with these things as individuals or as a team will deternine our "Worth" both in society and to ourselves.

Too many people have lost sight of these values....   Just my 

Well said.

I think what bothers people more than a guy who is perceived to make too much is when that guy becomes a primadona and won't do anything that's not notarized in his job description (whether it's union contract or an exectutive manager's contract) 

[70charginglizard]

http://images.despair.com/products/demotivators/goals.jpg

I have to admit. This one is pretty damn funny Brock

[Neal_J]

I agree that skilled workers (white collar and blue collar) will always be needed and are not readily replacable.  As an example, when my engine needs rebuilding, I'll take it to a shop and pay them for their skilled labor because I can't do it myself.  Many people take their taxes to Accountants in lieu of TurboTax for the same reason.

However, anyone can bolt on bumpers and other unskilled jobs just like it. You know there are 6 million Chinese that will gladly bolt on bumpers for $1/hr.  While those laid off US workers feel it's unfair, it's global economics.  Artificially high US labor prices will fall and/or jobs will be lost as long as American unskilled wages grossly exceed that of the rest of the world.

Some will argue or rant about how it's all the fault of white collar workers.  Nonsense, that's a smokescreen hiding the real issue.  Sure, there are jack-offs and idiots in any labor pool, white collar or blue.   But it takes thousands of line workers to build a Dodge Magnum and compared to a few hundred executives and bean-counters.  Even if all the white collars guys were worthless, their contribution to the cost of the car is a tiny fraction compared to the guys on the line.  I'm not saying that ineffective managers don't contribute to a bad situation, but this argument avoids the much larger cost component.

In reality, every product you buy at Wal-Mart results from unskilled  & consequently low-paid Chinese labor - whereas such items were once all made in the USA.  Has or will your cost of living consequently fall?  Yes and no.  On one hand, you can buy a DVD player at WalMart for like $30.  On the other hand, our cost of living isn't what is out of wack, unskilled wages are. The overall cost of living hasn't and won't fall much because American unskilled labor is overpaid as compared to the world marketplace.   

Those laid off should consider going to college or trade skill to get some useful skills.  Monkeys can bolt on bumpers.

Oh, and there's no Easter Bunny either.

Neal

[Ghoste]

Of course, those desparate people who "gladly" perform this labor for a dollar an hour might be able to make a good argument that their wages are artificially low. 

[RTPTRON]

  And the stock marches on.  Now up to $70.25, Up $5.80 since the announcement yesterday.  What color shirts do the investors wear???

[Vainglory, Esq.]

I dunno, but when I bought DCX stock a few years ago, I wasn't making much at all.  Stock tends to be a very good investment regardless of your collar color.

[sailpanel]

The main problem that american car makers have is the way they have always done business. Making as many cars as they can push out the door. MORE MORE MORE and they are getting a glut of new vehicles.

Yea and its the same for allmost all manufacturing. I worked for a major paper co. for 19 years and when the market was bad we had to" make more product for a better return on investment". When the market was good we had to "make more product to take advantage of the situation". I'm sure they are told some similar B.S. .

[hemihead]

Why is blaming the White collar labor force a smokescreen?Aren't they in charge of product research and development?Don't they buy the raw materials?Aren't they responsible for everything about a company except for the average Joe putting the product together?Most White collar people may design a product but have no idea how it is made,used , or repaired.Why do you think when you buy something that it doesn't work the way it is supposed to?Some white collar genius had no clue designing something.Don't blame the blue collar guy assembling it.
Anyone buy some of those fantastic Chinese or Japanese made tools lately? You know the ones that some company found some guy overseas to make for $1 a day.I bet none of you white collar guys EVER buys one of the cheap tools ( if you know how to use them). But hey, they aren't those made by an evil Union shop with inferior overpaid labor and their poor white collar management being held hostage by the big mean Union.

[Shakey]

Why is blaming the White collar labor force a smokescreen?Aren't they in charge of product research and development?Don't they buy the raw materials?Aren't they responsible for everything about a company except for the average Joe putting the product together?Most White collar people may design a product but have no idea how it is made,used , or repaired.Why do you think when you buy something that it doesn't work the way it is supposed to?Some white collar genius had no clue designing something.Don't blame the blue collar guy assembling it.
Anyone buy some of those fantastic Chinese or Japanese made tools lately? You know the ones that some company found some guy overseas to make for $1 a day.I bet none of you white collar guys EVER buys one of the cheap tools ( if you know how to use them). But hey, they aren't those made by an evil Union shop with inferior overpaid labor and their poor white collar management being held hostage by the big mean Union.

Perhaps everyone is to blame.  The white collar guy for screwing things up so badly and the blue collar guys for not coming into the office from the plant to tell them how to straighten things out!   

[Old Moparz]

Screwing the little guy might be what happens, but it hopfully motivates the little guy to move up. I've done all kinds of work in the past, & never actually thought the task was beneath me. I've swept floors & dumped garbage at a mall while in high school, had driven delivery vans & trucks, packed & crated things for shipping in a warehouse, home improvements & building construction, drafting for architectural & engineering firms, land surveying, & now estimating for a site contractor. What I did think instead of the task being beneath me, was that this task absolutely sucks & I have to do something better. It's part of growing up, part of evolving, part of learning more, & hopefully all that is enough to advance yourself to a better position.

Like it was already mentioned, there will always be the conflict of "us vs. them".......... And guess what?

There's money to be made off that competition by someone creative enough to do it.

[Shakey]

Like it was already mentioned, there will always be the conflict of "us vs. them".......... And guess what?

There's money to be made off that competition by someone creative enough to do it.

Yep - like creating a video game where the blue collars try to slaughter the white collars as they defend their ivory towers.   

The blue collars could use weapons from the plant, perhaps even kidnapping some of the white collar Engineers (POW's) to program the robots to attack and the white collars can defend them selves with staplers, pens and push pins.

[hemihead]

Sounds alot like life in some 3rd world countries.