No Brake Lights - 70 Charger

[TripleBlackGator]

Here's what I have checked. Turn signals work both left and right, front and back. Flashers work front and back. All fuses "look" good. All bulbs in rear (6 total- 4 1157 and 2 1156) are good. All 6 should come on when hitting the brakes. Right? I also checked plunger at pedal. It is moving and removed connection there and found NO corrosion. Any idea what I may be missing. I am postive I have a good ground. Any simple tests that can help determine what's up?

[Nacho-RT74]

no... just 1157 should start on with brakes... the inner ones  are part of parking/positioning lights.

1156 are not the right ones for red lenses... if you stay with those will melt the lense because as far I know they sit closer to lense on 69-70s on the inner sockets. Right now dunno remember the right bulb number, but has been posted... to rest of info, will analize and post later. have to leave now

[Plumcrazy]

The inner bulbs in the taillights should be a #67 or #97.   They do not come on with the brake lights.

There are two wires at the brake light switch.  One has power all the time, the other only when the brake pedal is pressed.

If the brake switch checks out okay, you probably need a turn signal switch.

[Nacho-RT74]

Pink wire up to brake pedal switch is the same source than the positive to dome light, so if you have dome light then you should have power there unless wire up to pedal brake switch is damaged.

Place a jumper between pink and white wires arriving up brake pedal switch. If pink wire is powered and brakes come on, then brake pedal switch is damaged.

If doesn't come on, with jumper still on place check for white wire power under column, on turning switch harness. If you have power there, and no power on brown and dark green wires ( outputs to rear lights ) then turning switch is damaged or its harness

[TripleBlackGator]

Ok here's the update. I am assuming that the brake lights and the stop lights share the same fuse. Am I right? Now I pulled the white and pink wires off the brake pedal switch and used a "jumper" betwen the two. Doing so I still have no brake lights. I take it then that you are saying it could be a bad turn signal switch or turn signal harness. If so, how do you access the harness. I never had the column apart and don't really want to but I need this fixed ASAP. Any help is appreciated. ALSO: What is the number of the inner bulb? The one with one contact and one filiment. The "running" light. What came out (from the 70's) reads 1095 but can't find that number at the local Advance Auto store.

[Nacho-RT74]

need to remove the wheel and you will get acces to the turning switch.

stop lights and brake lights ? depends what you mean with one or another... I understand both are the same just different called.

Brakes light share same fuse than dome light.

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

ALSO: What is the number of the inner bulb? The one with one contact and one filiment. The "running" light. What came out (from the 70's) reads 1095 but can't find that number at the local Advance Auto store.

Plumcrazy posted the replacement #'s above

[TripleBlackGator]

ALSO: What is the number of the inner bulb? The one with one contact and one filament. The "running" light. What came out (from the 70's) reads 1095 but can't find that number at the local Advance Auto store.

Plumcrazy posted the replacement #'s above

Got it Just 6T9_CHGR. My local Advance Auto is sold out of 1157's and 67's and 97's. What's up with that? I'll be going to Pep Boys tonight. Anyways.....I was looking into the brake light problem again this morning. There is power at the pink wire. I disconnected the pink and white wire from the brake pedal switch and ran a wire from one connector to the other. I still do not have brake lights? I am believing now that there is a problem with the wiring harness (white wire) for the rear of the car. I am not sure when I lost the brake lights. Does anyone know the route the harness takes from the dash to the taillights? I installed new carpet a while back. Could the wires have been damaged during the carpet install. I don't remember there being a wiring harness to deal with when I put in the carpet. All ideas are appreciated.

[Charger_Fan]

They were sold out of 1157's?? That's sad. I could see being out of 67's or 97's, but 1157's? Yeesh.

Anyway...It's been a while, but I'm 98% sure the wires heading to the taillights are routed under the door sill. If you take off the aluminum door sill cover & push the carpet back, you'll see a rounded piece of sheet metal spot welded to the body of the car, running the length of the door opening. Your wires are in there.
You can fish them outta there for testing.

Back when mine was used for daily driver status, I had to replace my t/s switch because of no brake lights too. I don't remember now if the turn signals worked at the time, or not. Replacing the switch isn't too tough, just a little time consuming.

[TripleBlackGator]

They were sold out of 1157's?? That's sad. I could see being out of 67's or 97's, but 1157's? Yeesh.
Back when mine was used for daily driver status, I had to replace my t/s switch because of no brake lights too. I don't remember now if the turn signals worked at the time, or not. Replacing the switch isn't too tough, just a little time consuming.

If I have power going to the brake pedal switch then I would assume my T/S switch is ok and that my problem lies in the white wire going back to the tailights. Is there a "sub" harness further back that goes from the white wire to the three wires on each side for the tail lights? I should be able to do a continuity test on the white wire once I find the other end.

[Plumcrazy]

They were sold out of 1157's?? That's sad. I could see being out of 67's or 97's, but 1157's? Yeesh.
Back when mine was used for daily driver status, I had to replace my t/s switch because of no brake lights too. I don't remember now if the turn signals worked at the time, or not. Replacing the switch isn't too tough, just a little time consuming.

If I have power going to the brake pedal switch then I would assume my T/S switch is ok and that my problem lies in the white wire going back to the tailights. Is there a "sub" harness further back that goes from the white wire to the three wires on each side for the tail lights? I should be able to do a continuity test on the white wire once I find the other end.

The brake lights and the turn signals use the same wire and the same bulbs and the same filiments in those bulbs.  If the turn signals and flashers at the rear of the car work then you do not have a problem with the wiring back to them.

If you have power in the white wire at the turn signal switch connector when you press on the brake pedal, replace the turn signal switch.   

[Nacho-RT74]

[TripleBlackGator]

I have power going to the white wire that is connected to the brake pedal switch. I suppose this is NOT the same as the white wire from the turn signal switch. Is it? Also, if there is steady power going to the brake pedal switch via the pink wire even without the pedal being depressed then what illuminates the second filament in the 1157's?

[1971SE440]

I had the same problem with 1971 with no brake lights. I went through everything and could not find anything wrong...still no brake lights. I took it to a shop and my buddy told me it was the turn signal switch in the steering column. I thought he was nuts...but I ordered a new switch complete w/harness from Year One $102 and he installed it and I now have brake lights. Go figure.

[Nacho-RT74]

Once and again, power route to brakes is:

pink wire up brake pedal switch allways powered

then becomes on white wire powered when brakes are pressed. THIS WIRE IS THE SAME ARRIVING TO TURNING SWITCH

with turning switch and hazzards off, then white wire feeds normally the brown and dark green wires ( rear ligths ). So is linked for a while everything on turning switch is off. If turning switch is good you must have power on dark green and brown wires with powered white wire, jumped with pink wire or plugged and brakes pressed at brakes pedal switch.

[Nacho-RT74]

some other references... this works just since 70... 69 and earliers are different on some stuff:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,30075.0.html
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,29971.0.html
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,24523.0.html
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,15077.0.html

[Nacho-RT74]

if there is steady power going to the brake pedal switch via the pink wire even without the pedal being depressed then what illuminates the second filament in the 1157's?

First filament is feeded by parking position net with black wire, same as sidemarkers... second and brighter filament for brown or dark green ( depends of side ) what are brakes, hazzards and turning

[Plumcrazy]

I had the same problem with 1971 with no brake lights. I went through everything and could not find anything wrong...still no brake lights. I took it to a shop and my buddy told me it was the turn signal switch in the steering column. I thought he was nuts...but I ordered a new switch complete w/harness from Year One $102 and he installed it and I now have brake lights. Go figure.

It makes perfect sense.  What is confusing everybody is the fact that the brakes lights and the turn signals share the same filiments in the same bulbs at the rear of the car.  If they just ran a wire from the brake switch to those rear bulbs, as soon as you stepped on the brake you would not have a rear turn signal anymore.

[TripleBlackGator]

What was confusing me was the signal flow. I thought it was from the column to the brake switch to the rear lights. My understanding now is that the signal goes from the brake switch to the column and then the rear lights. Am I finally understanding this? If so, then I will look for a switch and harness at Carlisle. Now....does anyone have pictures or detailed instructions of removal of steering wheel (woodgrain & big black center horn) and removal of switch and harness. I do have a puller and could probably figure it out as I go but if I can avoid a mistake or learn a shortcut I'm all for that. Thanks everyone!

[Nacho-RT74]

When you turn on one side, that side changes the input source from the wire coming from turning flasher ( is the red one on turning switch harness ), for a while the non turning side keeps the input source coming from brakes ( white wire ) to keep brakes working to that side.

On hazzards, the brakes white wire input is completelly cut to then make the source coming from pink wire ( on turning switch harness ) what is the hazzard flasher source to all 4 corners.

We have then 3 constant inputs: brake pedal switch and hazzard flasher with power allways, and turning flasher just with ignition key on RUN or ACC.

and 4 outputs one to each corner, being just rears discriminated by brakes input.

the extra wire ( black ) is horn, and drives ground.

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

While you're at Carlisle pick up a FSM.... all the instruction you need is in there

[TripleBlackGator]

While you're at Carlisle pick up a FSM.... all the instruction you need is in there

Forgot I had one. Thanks! 

[killer8man]

I've got the same problem in my '71. I found this post and it sounds like you've got the exact same problem I do. So...I ordered the switch and harness from Year One and I took the steering wheel off and the big bolt in the middle of the steering column and that's as far as I got. How do I take the rest of the stuff off so I can access the switch? Thanks for all of your help ahead of time.

Cheers,
Adam

P.S. Happy Independence Day to all of our veterans and active duty military from an active duty Navy helo pilot.

[TripleBlackGator]

My Factory Service Manual  (The BIG THICK PURPLE one. Ha Ha) isn't very clear on how to remove the switch and associated harness. It also doesn't show how to remove the big black horn button. Anyone know the RIGHT way to remove the horn button WITHOUT damaging anything? Also, if the problem lies in the switch can just the switch be purchased or is the harness hard wired to the switch? How much disassembly is involved in getting switch and the harness out? Sorry about all the questions but the steering column is very foreign to me.

[killer8man]

My '71 has a '69? steering wheel with  the big black horn button. I just pulled it off with my hands. Came right off with a little tug. I can't imagine doing any damage pulling it off that way.

[Nacho-RT74]

I've got the same problem in my '71. I found this post and it sounds like you've got the exact same problem I do. So...I ordered the switch and harness from Year One and I took the steering wheel off and the big bolt in the middle of the steering column and that's as far as I got. How do I take the rest of the stuff off so I can access the switch? Thanks for all of your help ahead of time.

Cheers,
Adam

P.S. Happy Independence Day to all of our veterans and active duty military from an active duty Navy helo pilot.

what switch ? ignition or turning ?

turning is just there once you remove the wheel. Just need to unscrew the 3 screws and plate what keep in place and the turning lever screw, then just pull out the harness and plug.

advice: unbolt the steering column from dash to let it fall and remove that same plate from column to remove a plastic cover from there and get more room to remove harness and plug from column. Also tie a wire to the old harness plug. Once you get it removed, then tie the wire to the new plug to pull it out from bottom and make it easier to pass throught column.

[Nacho-RT74]

[Charger_Fan]

The harness is hard wired to the switch.

Ok, going from memory here...pop the steering wheel off with a puller.
Unscrew the turn signal handle.
Unscrew the 3 (maybe?) phillips screws holding the switch assembly to the column.
If I remember right with mine, I unbolted the column from the dash. Once you drop the column down a ways, you can see most of the harness.
Unplug the harness connection, then just tug at it from the top, while pushing from the bottom. It will slide up & out fairly easily.

Installing the new one should go fairly easily too, especially because the wires are more flexible. If it gets caught halfway down, you could fish a stiff wire up from the bottom, tie it to the harness plug & use that to gently guide the harness through.

The horn button is a whole other matter, I haven't taken one of those apart yet. I do know that on some cars, you push it down & turn it 1/4 turn counter clockwise while pushing, to clear the tabs inside. Then it just pops off in your hand. I wish I was more help with that.
Oh, make sure you unplug the horn first.

You have this type of steering wheel, right?




*EDIT* Looks like Nacho has about the same plan as me on removing the switch.

[killer8man]

OK...looks like I have a different steering column than in the picture. I've attached some pictures to show you what I'm working with. It looks like I might have to buy a puller? Is that something I can get at the local parts store?

[killer8man]

Side view

[killer8man]

Parts

[TripleBlackGator]

You have this type of steering wheel, right?

Yes that is the wheel and horn button I am working with. I will give it a quick look-see tomorrow but I am not going to get too involved the day before Carlisle.

[Charger-Bodie]

You have this type of steering wheel, right?

Yes that is the wheel and horn button I am working with. I will give it a quick look-see tomorrow but I am not going to get too involved the day before Carlisle.

that style horn pad simply turns counter clocwise and its off.

[Nacho-RT74]

I understood you hade the 70 Charger wheel... That's a 72-74 Challenger wheel.

Don't worry, is the same just that you need to remove the wheel adaptor same as like it was the wheel itself...you need a steering wheel puller.

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

You're driving to Carlisle with no brake lights?   



(Mental note..... steer clear of a black 70 Charger on the way down)

[TripleBlackGator]

You're driving to Carlisle with no brake lights?   



(Mental note..... steer clear of a black 70 Charger on the way down)

YES I AM! And yes STAY BACK if you come up on a black 70. I have no wipers either so if it rains Friday (which it could) it will be Rain-X or the car stays put. Since we are sooo far into this subject now what actually fails in the switch to cause a no brake light scenario? Is it a physically broken contact, connection, wire???

[Charger_Fan]

I'm pretty sure it's a burned/broken contact that fails.
I've driven in the rain with Rain-X before, it worked great!

[killer8man]

Brakes are fixed! Thanks for all the help guys!  The new turn signal switch worked. Only problem was that in the process, I pulled the steering column shaft apart at some linkage under the hood. I think I got it put back together properly. I just need to get some grease and secure the cap back on it somehow. 

Cheers,
Adam

[red72chrgr]

I assume, this info for a 71 would be the same for a 72? 

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

You're driving to Carlisle with no brake lights?   



(Mental note..... steer clear of a black 70 Charger on the way down)

YES I AM! And yes STAY BACK if you come up on a black 70. I have no wipers either so if it rains Friday (which it could) it will be Rain-X or the car stays put. Since we are sooo far into this subject now what actually fails in the switch to cause a no brake light scenario? Is it a physically broken contact, connection, wire???

I guess you left it home then.....didnt see the car there

[Nacho-RT74]

I assume, this info for a 71 would be the same for a 72? 

same since 70 up 80... maybe more years

[red72chrgr]

I assume, this info for a 71 would be the same for a 72? 

same since 70 up 80... maybe more years

Thanks Nacho.

[TripleBlackGator]

Ok. Back on the subject. I have been told by many that my problem lies in the turn signal switch. I bought one at Carlilsle and was about to install it when I noticed that the wiring was a bit different than the original. I have taken pictures of old and new and the ID TAG on the bag of the reproduction unit. I have arrows pointing to the wires in question. One wire seems completely missing. (The purple one on the left) I do not want to install it if indeed it is the wrong part and if it is, which part  do I need? Oh, and by the way Just_6T9_Charger my car made it as far as the Carlilse exit on the turnpike. It died just after the toll booth. I have the engine out and will be looking for the cause as soon as I find some time.

[Charger_Fan]

I bet it'll work. You could plug it into the harness before actually mounting it to the column, to see if it works.

[chargerman68]

You're driving to Carlisle with no brake lights?   



(Mental note..... steer clear of a black 70 Charger on the way down)

[TripleBlackGator]

I bet it'll work. You could plug it into the harness before actually mounting it to the column, to see if it works.

NO CAN DO! Battery out, engine out, harnesses out.

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Oh, and by the way Just_6T9_Charger my car made it as far as the Carlilse exit on the turnpike. It died just after the toll booth. I have the engine out and will be looking for the cause as soon as I find some time.

Crap that sucks.....no help on the switch though...

[TripleBlackGator]

Oh, and by the way Just_6T9_Charger my car made it as far as the Carlilse exit on the turnpike. It died just after the toll booth. I have the engine out and will be looking for the cause as soon as I find some time.

Crap that sucks.....no help on the switch though...

Nope. Not yet. Still waiting for someone that has THE answer. I might give Year One a call and see if they can shed some light.   

[TripleBlackGator]

Ok gang back to this topic. Like I stated earlier in the thread I bought a new turn signal switch at Carlisle last year and I went to install it when I found that the original has an 8 wire multi-colored harness terminated with a female plug but it also has a 3 wire harness (green, purple, gray) leading to a 3 pin female connector. The new switch does NOT have the 3 wire harness. What gives? Do I have the right switch? I have only seen one switched listed in most catalogs and for sale at the shows. What is the 3 wire harness for? Can the new switch be installed that doesn't have the 3 wire? I am confused over this whole deal. Please shed some light.

[Nacho-RT74]

that's an extra pigtail for cornering lamps equipped on C bodies

[TripleBlackGator]

that's an extra pigtail for cornering lamps equipped on C bodies

You mean this? On a 1970 Charger....why?

[Nacho-RT74]

Chrysler began on some date to make/sold kinda ALL BODIES PARTS FITS to save from diff stock for diff Bodies. Just one piece for all cars. you simply dont use that pigtail and even cut if you want.

don't recall the purple wire function, but tan and green are left and right sides spliced from front signals on switch

[Mopar2Ya]

Those pics are also a good representation of the difference in the size/shape of the hazard/4way button(from stock/smaller to repo/bigger).

[acelondon]

How's this guys: I have working right brake and turn signal lights, and all 4 running lights, and both back up lights. But my left turn and brake lights don't work. 

Green wire seems to be fine all the way to the front 6pin connector.( my MultiMeter says 0 ohms and no connection to ground detected.)

Now i followed it up to the dash. Next to the E-brake pedal, there's a 6 pin harness. With the brakes on, and connector disconnected (to help isolate the problem) i get 0.4 or so volts, its varies some. Time for a new turn signal switch?

It's a 1974 Charger SE

[Nacho-RT74]

does look it is