Re: just contemplating my build... [UPDATED: 4/2/08] - ALL DYNO #s

[joflaig]

2 crappy thing here.

1) He's right. It will more than likely be a complete waste of time and money going after them.

2) He handled it like a bully. 

Ultimately they do sell the cars "as is", no warranty. However, there is something called truth in advertisng. If you're going to advertise the engine like that, well...I'm not a lawyer. I could always refer it to the BBB, I suppose.

[firefighter3931]

Here's what the dealer said (I was very polite in my coorespondence with them):

"You may proceed how ever you feel is best but there will be no concessions made on the part of XXX. We had no way of knowing the block was in that condition and you have now had the vehicle for quite sometime now. I am sure you are aware that there is no way for you to prove that the damage was a condition that existed on or before the purchase date. Maybe you didn't have the antifreeze mixture right and the block got damaged while in your possession... there are just too many variables here. I have been in this business for quite sometime now and can tell you that this kind of stuff is just part of the old car game. If you cant deal with it then you are in the wrong hobby. In the past year alone, we have had to replace 3 motors and at least half a dozen transmissions due to failure while vehicles were in our possession. Not ONCE did we go back to the sellers and ask for anything. My suggestion would be to buy a well done crate motor with a warranty and get the car back on the road. Chasing after [us] for something will be a waste of time and effort, that I can assure you."

What a bunch of a-holes. No way of knowing the block was in that condition.....WTF, who assembled the motor, a blind man ! Gimme a break !

Those shitheads had to have seen those cracks....they just pressure tested the block and since it didn't leak they said what the hell and assembled it. His tone sucks....he's basicly challenging you to prove it. If you don't like it maybe you need to get another hobby....what kind of bullshit answer is that !    I'd be driving down there and launching that block through his front window 

Typical car flipper attitude....no morals and even less class 

I feel for ya man....it's not right !


Mally just found out he got hosed on a set of cylinder heads he had rebuilt....parts he paid for and labor he was told had been done...were NOT. I just don't know what to say when i read this crap.....



Ron

[joflaig]

That's what I thought. They saw the cracks and probably said to hell with it and rebuilt it anyway for the worst cynical reasons. Had the cracks been anywhere else they might have been easily spotted.

Like I said, if anyone is buying a car in the St. Louis area, just PM me first. 

I'm not even sure I will reply to them. My thoughts go from ignoring it to much, much worse.

[joflaig]

OK, totally unrelated now to all this crap...

I don't think I've brought it before, but I'm curious what kind of #s this build will bring. I have a rough idea based on all the similar builds posted here. However, I've been getting opinions that really vary (on the HP anyway). It's been from 500hp to 650hp. I'd be shocked to see anything over 600hp. So any guesses? There will no porting done on the heads or intake, just "clean up".

[firefighter3931]

I'd be shocked to see anything over 600hp.

So would I 

With stock unported E-heads and a cam that mild it's more likely to make in the 540hp range but it will make a butt load of torque !  I would be expecting ~ 600 ftlbs of tire twisting fun out of your build. 


Ron

[joflaig]

I'd be shocked to see anything over 600hp.

So would I 

With stock unported E-heads and a cam that mild it's more likely to make in the 540hp range but it will make a butt load of torque !  I would be expecting ~ 600 ftlbs of tire twisting fun out of your build. 


Ron

Yup, based on everything I've read that sounds more like it.

It's funny, even when you say it's mostly street, the guys on moparts can't help but tell you what to change so you can get to 600+ hp. 

It's tempting to get to high hp sickness, but you've got to remember your original goals.

[firefighter3931]

It's tempting to get to high hp sickness, but you've got to remember your original goals.

Absolutely ! Stick with the plan and trust me....you'll be plenty happy. 

600 ftlbs is gonna shock you the first time you drop the hammer !    Torque rules on the street !!!! 

This engine will idle nice and smooth and be a joy to tune....bigger horsepower comes at the expense of idle quality and street manners. 


Ron

[joflaig]

PICS coming wednesaday!

They've finished decking the block and doing the align bore. They are doing some mockups and by midweek should have the rotating assembly in. It sounds like it was a bit of job to machine the main caps. I went with the billet steel from 440 -- yes I know, overkill.

Good news is they didn't find anything wrong with the 727 in the process of tear down.

[Steve P.]

A local buddy just had the 440 Source steel caps done in a motor and his machinist sort of gave him hell for the amount of steel he had to remove too.. Hey, they will work on smaller cranks as well. Why not make just one size? The machine shop is getting paid, RIGHT!!     It's not like you brought him a huge block of solid steel and said, MAKE ME A 440...      

By the way, I LOVE OVERKILL.....   

[mally69]

Looking forward to seeing some pics

Overkill can be a good thing   

[BrianShaughnessy]

For what it's worth I had emailed Brandon awhile back asking if he was going to make 383/400 and 440 caps instead of just the one size fits all to save people on the machining costs.

I'm still waiting 

[joflaig]

I asked them that last month when I got them. It didn't sound promising.

[joflaig]

I visited the engine shop this morning. You can see the progress in the pics below. The machinist told me it took half a day just to do the align bore since those billet steel main caps have so much extra flesh on them.

I ordered the stroker kit from 440 Source balanced and it seemed like the shop would have prefered to do this themselves, which I can kind of understand. Anyway, they had the bob weight sheet that 440 Source provided. When they weighed the pistons (I think it was just the pistons, not w/rods) they found 1 gram or less difference between them (1 ounce = 28.35 grams). At any rate, they didn't do any extra machining. Someone told me that over 2 grams of weight difference would matter more, especially at higher RPMs. This thing will have the rev limiter set at 6000. So did 440 Source do a good job here? Sounds like it to me. 

I asked them to paint the block hemi orange and to leave the dampener alone. Is the material making up the MP oil pan ok to leave unpainted or not?

Other thing to mention was that they want to go with a Felpro 1009 head gasket. Based on what I've read that should be ok.

I guess next week sometime they will be done and it's off to the Dyno the following week. I will be visiting the engine shop one more time to see the thing run, though, first.

I keep reading that the ProForm 950 doesn't need much tuning out of the box. For a layman like myself are there any knowledgeable sounding points I should know to make so that these guys don't setup the carb as though it were for pure drag racing (the shop owner runs a 200mph '62 Polara)?

If any of you guys and your highly trained eyes sees anything amiss in the pics, please let me know! Thanks.

What does the "-10" in the casting numbers mean?

[joflaig]

Some more... How's it look?

[joflaig]

Here's some shots of my Granny Grocer Go-Getter column shift interior which I also took today as I happened to be visiting the car at the resto shop as well. It's funny, I took the car in last August to put in the seats and roll cage and now it's February and the only thing in the drivetrain I haven't replaced or rebuilt or restored is the gas tank.

[Charger-Bodie]

Other than the date on the block, that thing looks just like my gine did at that point.  NICE!!!

[joflaig]

Other than the date on the block, that thing looks just like my gine did at that point.  NICE!!!

I had a choice of a 72 block or a 68 and took the 72. I know you could argue endlessly about which might stronger. Anyway a 68 block is probably more valuable to someone trying to do a matching year engine.

[Charger-Bodie]

Other than the date on the block, that thing looks just like my gine did at that point.  NICE!!!

I had a choice of a 72 block or a 68 and took the 72. I know you could argue endlessly about which might stronger. Anyway a 68 block is probably more valuable to someone trying to do a matching year engine.

Thats definitely not what I'm arguing .....My block is a 76 model.  I also don't buy into that some years are better thing. 

[Rack]

That block is CLEAN.


Did that thing just come out of it's casting? Nice.

[joflaig]

That block is CLEAN.


Did that thing just come out of it's casting? Nice.

I like hearing that after what happened to the last one! I guess the guy at the shop said he scours the big swap meets we have here and actually ends up chucking  a quarter of what he buys.

[firefighter3931]

Hot Damn that shortblock looks nice ! 

As for the balance job....2 grams is nuthin to be concerned about. 

I would use the Proform 950 right out of the box for the cam/engine breakin and the first few pulls. The jetting should be dead nuts perfect with your mild build, inmo. Once they've made a few power pulls the A/F ratios can be looked at and adjustments made...if need be. I don't think the carb will need any tweaking but the dyno is the place to do it.

Tell them to start off with 16* initial and 35* total on the timing....the total should be in by 2500-2800 rpm. 

I'm happy for ya buddy !!! 




Ron

[joflaig]

Thanks Ron, I could not have got this far without your help! 

They have not set the timing yet so I will introduce that topic when I next speak with them.

I have to say, this experience must be similar to what it's like when you become a first-time father. 

[Steve P.]

It's looking great... The only trouble I'm having with it is jealousy... 

[joflaig]

It's looking great... The only trouble I'm having with it is jealousy... 

IF you knew how much I was spending you might not be so jealous! 

[Steve P.]

If you knew how much I spend keeping my kids afloat you would be happy to pay the piper....