Police Raid Car Enthusiast Gathering, Generate Revenue

[hutch]

California: Police Raid Car Enthusiast Gathering, Generate Revenue
http://thenewspaper.com/news/23/2302.asp


Police raid Riverside, California parking lot to issue modified car tickets at local car enthusiast gathering.

Using $503,000 in federal and state gas tax revenue to pay for overtime, nine police agencies in Riverside, California sent more than one hundred police officers to surround a gathering of automotive enthusiasts. Owners of imported sport compact cars had gathered at the Canyon Crossing shopping center on Friday night to swap stories, talk about their passion for cars and show off the latest enhancements to their rides. At around 11pm police surprised participants by blocking all exits with fifty police cruisers. Officers then began a warrantless search and interrogation operation of the 150 vehicles that were present.

"If you're not into street racing, why would you need that?" Riverside Police Traffic Sergeant Skip Showalter asked an enthusiast during a similar crackdown last year. "Why would you want more power going to your car?"

Police issued a total of forty-eight tickets for "engine modifications" with police accusing the owners of the parked vehicles of being street racers. Another fifty tickets were issued for paperwork violations, dark window tinting and lack of a front license plate. The most revenue, however, will be generated from the fees imposed on twenty vehicles that were confiscated. Despite labeling the parking lot raid as taking place at a "street racing venue," Riverside Police offered no evidence that any street racing actually took place.

Across the state, gas tax funds are regularly used to fund similar crackdowns that generate big revenue. In 2004, the California Highway Patrol issued a total of 101,553 "modified car" citations worth $10.5 million according to CHP data obtained by TheNewspaper.

Other law enforcement agencies participating in Friday night's raid included the California Highway Patrol, Riverside County Sheriff's Department, and police from Baldwin Park, Fontana, Irwindale, Moreno Valley, Ontario and Mount San Jacinto Community College

[68charger383]

The CA cops are actually trained to ID aftermarket parts on these cars.

[Drache]

The CA cops are actually trained to ID aftermarket parts on these cars.

from what I realize they are the only cops who have to go through courses just to be able to do so! Personally I say good for them! 

[Orange_Crush]

The CA cops are actually trained to ID aftermarket parts on these cars.

from what I realize they are the only cops who have to go through courses just to be able to do so! Personally I say good for them! 

Really?  Good for them?

And then when they come after you what are you going to say?  Good for them?  Just because it happened to the tuner crowd doesn't mean it can't happen to you.  Grow up.

This is a plain-and-simple abuse of police power.

[hutch]

The CA cops are actually trained to ID aftermarket parts on these cars.

from what I realize they are the only cops who have to go through courses just to be able to do so! Personally I say good for them! 

States dont have any right to crack down one a group of people because of the type of car they like to build or own.  If stuff like this took place at a Mopar club event would you feel the same way?

[Blown70]

Seach without cause is what this looks like to me?  So any gathering this is ok.  HOW ABOUT in lets say Minnesota at MOPARS in the PARK.....

THIS COMPLETE BS.   

MY OPINION.

T

[moparstuart]

Seach without cause is what this looks like to me?  So any gathering this is ok.  HOW ABOUT in lets say Minnesota at MOPARS in the PARK.....

THIS COMPLETE BS.   

MY OPINION.

T

I agree a rights violationfor sure.  If they start with the tuners and get away with it where will it stop ! 

[Drache]

Seach without cause is what this looks like to me?  So any gathering this is ok.  HOW ABOUT in lets say Minnesota at MOPARS in the PARK.....

THIS COMPLETE BS.   

MY OPINION.

T

If you are driving around in a charger that has double the amount of horsepower it should or hooked up with Nitrous Oxide and get fined yeah I will feel the same! Why do people need to drive around in cars with double their stock horsepower? Cops arent going to fine a charger owner because he has a stock 440 under the hood even though the 440 has more HP than 2 ricers put together. A double pump carb is allot different than most of the shit these kids put under their hoods to make their cars go fast whereas chargers dont need it.

[Charger_Fan]

I look at as the ricers of the area having brought on themselves. I don't think many would disagree that the way ricers go out and get wild & crazy these days is quite a bit different than how we handled our wild & crazy selves when we were young. They have brought upon themselves, with their blatant disregard for their fellow man & rules of the road.
I don't forsee the police taking any interest in a gathering of Mopar owners.

At least the ricers in this story didn't get their cars impounded & crushed this time...that would probably be a bit worse than a few tickets.

[moparstuart]

This is a free country still I think , no matter who they are. IF they are assembled and not doing anything illegal leave them alone . Now if they caught them out street racing thats another story. 

[my73charger]

This is complete crap.  It is abuse of power. 

[terrible one]

"If you're not into street racing, why would you need that?" Riverside Police Traffic Sergeant Skip Showalter asked an enthusiast during a similar crackdown last year. "Why would you want more power going to your car?"

Hahahahaha wow, I love how they highlighted Mr. Showalter and his ignorant-ass comment. Why would you want more power going to your car? For fun/your own personal enjoyment? For racing LEGALLY at the strip? If these people weren't doing anything wrong (i.e. streetracing) then why are they all subject to a warrantless search, if the point of the whole operation is to crack down on streetracing? Oh, nevermind, just as the title says, it's about the money. How about they get off their asses and go find them actually doing it.

[moparstuart]

"If you're not into street racing, why would you need that?" Riverside Police Traffic Sergeant Skip Showalter asked an enthusiast during a similar crackdown last year. "Why would you want more power going to your car?"

Hahahahaha wow, I love how they highlighted Mr. Showalter and his ignorant-ass comment. Why would you want more power going to your car? For fun/your own personal enjoyment? For racing LEGALLY at the strip? If these people weren't doing anything wrong (i.e. streetracing) then why are they all subject to a warrantless search, if the point of the whole operation is to crack down on streetracing? Oh, nevermind, just as the title says, it's about the money. How about they get off their asses and go find them actually doing it.

or do bust some drug dealers

[RECHRGD]

Maybe I've been living out in the sticks too long.  When did engine modifications become illegal ?  If they can pass emission tests, what's the problem?  Is this just a California thing?  Geeeeze, 90% of us on this site have modified engines to some extent.  At least here in Wa. the older cars are not subject to any emission testing, so I guess we could get a free pass here.  If engine mods are illegal, maybe Holley and Edelbrock should be shut down.  Just a bunch of B/S imo.    Bob

[Drache]

Maybe I've been living out in the sticks too long.  When did engine modifications become illegal ?  If they can pass emission tests, what's the problem?  Is this just a California thing?  Geeeeze, 90% of us on this site have modified engines to some extent.  At least here in Wa. the older cars are not subject to any emission testing, so I guess we could get a free pass here.  If engine mods are illegal, maybe Holley and Edelbrock should be shut down.  Just a bunch of B/S imo.    Bob

Only a california thing to bust down on rampant street racing there....

[Blown70]

Seach without cause is what this looks like to me?  So any gathering this is ok.  HOW ABOUT in lets say Minnesota at MOPARS in the PARK.....

THIS COMPLETE BS.   

MY OPINION.

T

If you are driving around in a charger that has double the amount of horsepower it should or hooked up with Nitrous Oxide and get fined yeah I will feel the same! Why do people need to drive around in cars with double their stock horsepower? Cops arent going to fine a charger owner because he has a stock 440 under the hood even though the 440 has more HP than 2 ricers put together. A double pump carb is allot different than most of the shit these kids put under their hoods to make their cars go fast whereas chargers dont need it.

UMMM YEA sure whatever.  That will be your OPINION THEN......

[Drache]

Of course its my opinion... 

wow you're silly.... 

[Blown70]

So do tell me what or when does a rights violation end or begin?  Should all cars them be pulled over/check becasue of tint, modification, etc?

I would like to know .  Do custom wheels them make it ok, as they would not be stock? Seriously.  What type of "car" are you going to say this one does and this one does not.

If you are street racing.... HAVE AT them that is ILLEGAL..... PERIOD, I know of now where with out a sanction that road racing is allowed.

Gather of cars no matter the type, style, or if you like it or not should not have this type of action taken.

Tom.  Yea I  AM SILLY...Jacka$$

[Brock Samson]

calif loves to generate revenue via, targeting folks in cars... parking tickets just went up by $20.00 and some auto infractions fines were doubled... parking meters just went up 50 cents per hour a quarter now gets you six minutes... and they spend alot of time finding folks to give tickets to...
but Drache your "good for them" comment is not likely to be taken well by most folks here...
ain't there some Pollyanna site you can go to?.. 

hey guys,.. abuse of power, ain't that what we're all about?.. 

[Ponch ®]

Maybe I've been living out in the sticks too long.  When did engine modifications become illegal ?  If they can pass emission tests, what's the problem?  Is this just a California thing?  Geeeeze, 90% of us on this site have modified engines to some extent.  At least here in Wa. the older cars are not subject to any emission testing, so I guess we could get a free pass here.  If engine mods are illegal, maybe Holley and Edelbrock should be shut down.  Just a bunch of B/S imo.    Bob

Thing is, most of those parts/modifications are technically not legal. Look through your Summit Racing or Year One catalog and you'll see that with very few exceptions, most performance parts say "Off road vehicles only. Not legal for highway use", or something like that. So its just not ricers.

It's also not true that its' only ricers that are trouble makers. I hit up a local cruise-in every friday night, and the cops had to start staking out the area due to people - in street rods, muscle cars, etc - doing burnouts IN the parking lot (which the restaurant that hosts the cruise in shares with a K-mart, with lots of old lady shoppers and grandkids walking around) and peeling out when they leave. 

I agree with those who say this is bullshit. On the one hand, if you have illegal parts in your car and you get pulled over for f-ing around on the steets, then any trouble you get into is all par for the course - you knew damn well what you were doing. It's another thing, however, if you're just going to hang out and aren't doing anything wrong and the police raid the place like a it's a meth lab.

For the most part, I think cops probably don't really care as long as you're obeying traffic laws. They even drive around the cruise-in and stop to shoot the shit with the car owners. My guess is that it's the higher ups that are ordering these raids - and the cops are just doing their jobs at that point.

[68charger383]

The basis for the cops crack down is probably that we have had quite a few street racing accidents hit the news. Ex. Some of these bone heads were racing at 3:00 p.m. down a neighborhood street going over 100 mph and vaporized a mini van killing the mom and two small kids inside etc.

The reason the cops can focus on the new cars is CA has strict emission standards which almost any modification over stock will violate. Plus we have drag strips out here, $20 to run your car, so street racing is really not justified. I don't agree with them swarming in if they were just hanging out...but I would guess they must have been doing some street racing also.

The cops don't seem to bother the older muscle cars. However, they are usually driven by older people who tend to drive them like they have a load of nitro glycerin in the trunk. Plus the older cars beyond I think 1972 are smog exempt and the emission standards do not apply.

Back in the 80s, the cops would do a similar thing to us when we would come together to hang out (and street race) on Deer Park Ave or Hempstead Tpke in NY. So it really is nothing new....just cops busting kids for doing what kids do!

[Blown70]

I agree with those who say this is bullshit. On the one hand, if you have illegal parts in your car and you get pulled over for f-ing around on the steets, then any trouble you get into is all par for the course - you knew damn well what you were doing. It's another thing, however, if you're just going to hang out and aren't doing anything wrong and the police raid the place like a it's a meth lab.

I agree if you are F-ing around I see no problem...... I have gotten an unreasonable acceleration before..... 

[Drache]

Ponch like you said, there are parts for vehicles that literally state not for street use! Now if those are under the hood of a car that is at a car show and is not trailered there mean the car was on the road with illegal parts?

Maybe Im just the rare one here that thinks street racing is wrong... personally if someone has NOS on their car its no different that a huge assed blower sticking up from the hood. You don't need those things in a daily driver!

You drive around here with a huge assed blower sticking out of your hood you will get pulled over, simple as that. Same with illegally tinted windows! Some of these laws were put in place to save lives of innocent people! No one needs a 600hp daily driver anymore in my opinion, but you want to have that car on the track/strip, I'll be the first person in line drooling over it.

You are all mad that the cars were being fined at a show, but how did those cars get there?! If they have parts not for legal use, registered for daily driving, and were not trailered there....

Once again NONE of us know the full story of what happened. We don't know if they had an event like this before and things got out of hand so this year the cops put a stop to it. So far the fines they state exactly in the story such as no front license plates, some tinted windows, and some cars being confiscated (most likely due to the illegal parts) are all valid reasons.

Calling them street racers without seeing race though IS bullshit!

[Blown70]

Calling them street racers without seeing race though IS bullshit!

WOW I AM SILLY  we actually agree on one aspect....   

[bull]

Waste of time and money. Petty, nitpicking BS plain and simple. If they want to do some good there are hundreds of better uses for that money than to "raid" a bunch of ricer owners sitting in a parking lot.

[gasoline_24]

I think based on these comments maybe I will build my 68 RT into a 4 cylinder.  I wonder if I could get one from an 80s Daytona to fit.  That way I stay low on the ol hp.  I would not want to accidently hit that long vertical pedal and get out of control.  I think 4 cylinders is plenty for these cars.  The rest of you that have some need to go fast are out of line.  If anyone has some plans on how to retrofit a 4 cylinder with some smog equipment built in let me know.  This may turn out to be a one of one car after all.

[Ponch ®]

Ponch like you said, there are parts for vehicles that literally state not for street use! Now if those are under the hood of a car that is at a car show and is not trailered there mean the car was on the road with illegal parts?

Maybe Im just the rare one here that thinks street racing is wrong... personally if someone has NOS on their car its no different that a huge assed blower sticking up from the hood. You don't need those things in a daily driver!

You drive around here with a huge assed blower sticking out of your hood you will get pulled over, simple as that. Same with illegally tinted windows! Some of these laws were put in place to save lives of innocent people! No one needs a 600hp daily driver anymore in my opinion, but you want to have that car on the track/strip, I'll be the first person in line drooling over it.

You are all mad that the cars were being fined at a show, but how did those cars get there?! If they have parts not for legal use, registered for daily driving, and were not trailered there....

Once again NONE of us know the full story of what happened. We don't know if they had an event like this before and things got out of hand so this year the cops put a stop to it. So far the fines they state exactly in the story such as no front license plates, some tinted windows, and some cars being confiscated (most likely due to the illegal parts) are all valid reasons.

Calling them street racers without seeing race though IS bullshit!

True...we really don't know the whole background of the story.

For me, at least, the issue is not whether the parts in the cars are legal or not. I'd be a hypocrite to grandstand about that - we all have or have had something that wasn't exactly legal in our cars at some point or another, so let he who is without sin cast the first stone. If you're just cruising around in your car responsibly, then you're not causing any harm (maybe except the environment, but that's a topic for another day  ), and I find that MOST cops will look the other way. However, like I said earlier, if you're driving in an irresponsible or dangerous manner, then they have justification to pull you over and cite you for the illegal parts/modifications.

[Blown70]

I think based on these comments maybe I will build my 68 RT into a 4 cylinder.  I wonder if I could get one from an 80s Daytona to fit.  That way I stay low on the ol hp.  I would not want to accidently hit that long vertical pedal and get out of control.  I think 4 cylinders is plenty for these cars.  The rest of you that have some need to go fast are out of line.  If anyone has some plans on how to retrofit a 4 cylinder with some smog equipment built in let me know.  This may turn out to be a one of one car after all.

[PocketThunder]

I think based on these comments maybe I will build my 68 RT into a 4 cylinder.  I wonder if I could get one from an 80s Daytona to fit.  That way I stay low on the ol hp.  I would not want to accidently hit that long vertical pedal and get out of control.  I think 4 cylinders is plenty for these cars.  The rest of you that have some need to go fast are out of line.  If anyone has some plans on how to retrofit a 4 cylinder with some smog equipment built in let me know.  This may turn out to be a one of one car after all.

how about a leaning tower of power?  22 mpg even.  AMHIK 

[Chad L. Magee]

Same with illegally tinted windows! Some of these laws were put in place to save lives of innocent people!

Yes, but there can be abuses of power with that:

Back in 2000, I got pulled over in a Ford Probe GL (yes, I know it is a POS, good mpg with the 2.2L) with legally tinted windows in Iowa.  I was going to pick up some parts over in Storm Lake traveling on a backroad, was going 2 mph below the speed limit (53 in a 55), and was pulled over by a state trooper wanting to check my car.  The only modifications that I had done to it was the tinting of the windows and penstriping, everything else was bone stock.  He tried to say that I was speeding and it looked like I was racing, but did not have me on radar breaking the law (I knew it was a crock, but just kept quiet and answered the questions he asked).  He tested my windows and they were within the limits of the law, but he still wrote me a fix it ticket for it to have the tint removed, even after he admitted that I broke no law and he could not fine me.  According to him "all cars should not have tinted windows or modifications".  At the time, I lived in SD but also traveled quite a bit to Kansas with it.  It is a blessing to have tinted windows in those states, not just from the heat but also from the glare.  That event is one reason why I prefer to stay out of the back roads when I visit that state.  I think the problem lies with the interpretation powers that can be given to certain individuals.  Not all policemen or policewomen are bad, just the ones who go on a power trip beyond what the law actually says......

[Chad L. Magee]

I think based on these comments maybe I will build my 68 RT into a 4 cylinder.  I wonder if I could get one from an 80s Daytona to fit.  That way I stay low on the ol hp.  I would not want to accidently hit that long vertical pedal and get out of control.  I think 4 cylinders is plenty for these cars.  The rest of you that have some need to go fast are out of line.  If anyone has some plans on how to retrofit a 4 cylinder with some smog equipment built in let me know.  This may turn out to be a one of one car after all.

how about a leaning tower of power?  22 mpg even.  AMHIK 

What?  Someone wanting to make a second gen /6 Clone out of an RT?  Man, the hobby is really changing.......

[defiance]

Maybe Im just the rare one here that thinks street racing is wrong... personally if someone has NOS on their car its no different that a huge assed blower sticking up from the hood. You don't need those things in a daily driver!

You drive around here with a huge assed blower sticking out of your hood you will get pulled over, simple as that. Same with illegally tinted windows! Some of these laws were put in place to save lives of innocent people! No one needs a 600hp daily driver anymore in my opinion, but you want to have that car on the track/strip, I'll be the first person in line drooling over it.

So you honestly think that performance modification of a vehicle is wrong?  You think it's wrong of me to shoot for 600hp in the build I'm building right now, simply because I "don't need it"?  Well, you know what, YOU don't need a CHARGER either.  Such a heavy body is wasteful and pointless, and the engine has WELL beyond the amount of power you need for daily driving, so you should not be allowed by law to own or drive it.  Seriously, you don't NEED more than a honda, so why should you be allowed to have it?
Think what you want, as long as I can think what I want about the hypocricy inherent in your opinion.  But when legislation begins making these decisions for us, something is broken.

At least we agree that the warrantless searches were wrong.


Having said that, in another article about this subject, there were reports that the owner of the parking lot had complained repeatedly and that the center's customers had been endangered, and that there were rampant skidmarks and burnout marks around, so not quite as black & white as this article paints.  Not condoning the actions of the police, simply saying there is more to it.

[0X01B8]

The cars and the tuners aren't really the target.  It's just the usual harassment that people gathering receive and this is the latest group and the latest excuse.  Every year the cops get another 100 laws to get you with too.  Each of us is prolly in violation of something with our car.  Every hear about a law going OFF the books?  Hardly ever happens.  Lowriders get the same abuse.  Political protesters get it.  Jerry's Kids would get it if a couple hundred of them met up in a parking lot at night.  First amendment "freedom of assembly" is just a concept.  Didn't the British employ similar tactics against the colonists?   Who knows, maybe they hauled people off to jail for having illegal after-market horse equipment.  I'm thinking they must have, or it wouldn't be in the very first amendment, it prolly woulda been, like #9 or farther down the list.  And the colonists went batshit over a small tax on tea!  We put up with so much worse than that.  Civil rights are just a concept.  Anybody see the new George Carlin show on HBO?  We don't have rights we have "temporary privileges."

That concludes my rant, thanks for reading!   

-john

[defiance]

Who knows, maybe they hauled people off to jail for having illegal after-market horse equipment.

[TheGhost]

The CA cops are actually trained to ID aftermarket parts on these cars.

from what I realize they are the only cops who have to go through courses just to be able to do so! Personally I say good for them! 

Really?  Good for them?

And then when they come after you what are you going to say?  Good for them?  Just because it happened to the tuner crowd doesn't mean it can't happen to you.  Grow up.

This is a plain-and-simple abuse of police power.

My thoughts exactly.  I have several friends in the tuner crowd.  None are regular street racers (I say regular because everyone street races at one time or another), but many have added power to their cars, for the track.  Much like many of us here, do.  I find what happened to those automotive enthusiasts very worrying.

[Brock Samson]

i guess it figgures that this thread would generate so much passion,..
drache sure stirred the pot as if it needed it,..
most folks dont remember or know that at the beginning of the last century horse manure in the streets was a very real problem, especially in the cities and larger towns,.. Cars solved that problem. look it up. 

[Drache]

Maybe Im just the rare one here that thinks street racing is wrong... personally if someone has NOS on their car its no different that a huge assed blower sticking up from the hood. You don't need those things in a daily driver!

You drive around here with a huge assed blower sticking out of your hood you will get pulled over, simple as that. Same with illegally tinted windows! Some of these laws were put in place to save lives of innocent people! No one needs a 600hp daily driver anymore in my opinion, but you want to have that car on the track/strip, I'll be the first person in line drooling over it.

So you honestly think that performance modification of a vehicle is wrong?  You think it's wrong of me to shoot for 600hp in the build I'm building right now, simply because I "don't need it"?  Well, you know what, YOU don't need a CHARGER either.  Such a heavy body is wasteful and pointless, and the engine has WELL beyond the amount of power you need for daily driving, so you should not be allowed by law to own or drive it.  Seriously, you don't NEED more than a honda, so why should you be allowed to have it?
Think what you want, as long as I can think what I want about the hypocricy inherent in your opinion.  But when legislation begins making these decisions for us, something is broken.

At least we agree that the warrantless searches were wrong.


Having said that, in another article about this subject, there were reports that the owner of the parking lot had complained repeatedly and that the center's customers had been endangered, and that there were rampant skidmarks and burnout marks around, so not quite as black & white as this article paints.  Not condoning the actions of the police, simply saying there is more to it.

Wow... just wow....

So just because I dont believe that someone needs a 600hp daily driver means I shouldn't be looking at chargers. Im talking about a STOCK vehicle compared to a vehicle that is done to the nuts with things like NOS and Blowers. A hemi is stock at what, 425hp? Oh well, its a STOCK CLASSIC VEHICLE. The only engines ever been in my chargers were 318's and they were just fine for what I wanted to do.

I helped build a couple "drag vehicles" that were also road worthy and each one of them ended up in the ditch, wrapped around a pole, bounced off a tree, etc. Not because they were bad drivers, but because with that much power most people want to use it when they shouldnt.

If you can CLEARLY explain why someone NEEDS a blower attached to their 440 or NEEDS NOS attached to the car they drive to and from school or whatever Id certainly like to hear it.

[moparstuart]

Maybe Im just the rare one here that thinks street racing is wrong... personally if someone has NOS on their car its no different that a huge assed blower sticking up from the hood. You don't need those things in a daily driver!

You drive around here with a huge assed blower sticking out of your hood you will get pulled over, simple as that. Same with illegally tinted windows! Some of these laws were put in place to save lives of innocent people! No one needs a 600hp daily driver anymore in my opinion, but you want to have that car on the track/strip, I'll be the first person in line drooling over it.

So you honestly think that performance modification of a vehicle is wrong?  You think it's wrong of me to shoot for 600hp in the build I'm building right now, simply because I "don't need it"?  Well, you know what, YOU don't need a CHARGER either.  Such a heavy body is wasteful and pointless, and the engine has WELL beyond the amount of power you need for daily driving, so you should not be allowed by law to own or drive it.  Seriously, you don't NEED more than a honda, so why should you be allowed to have it?
Think what you want, as long as I can think what I want about the hypocricy inherent in your opinion.  But when legislation begins making these decisions for us, something is broken.

At least we agree that the warrantless searches were wrong.


Having said that, in another article about this subject, there were reports that the owner of the parking lot had complained repeatedly and that the center's customers had been endangered, and that there were rampant skidmarks and burnout marks around, so not quite as black & white as this article paints.  Not condoning the actions of the police, simply saying there is more to it.

Wow... just wow....

So just because I dont believe that someone needs a 600hp daily driver means I shouldn't be looking at chargers. Im talking about a STOCK vehicle compared to a vehicle that is done to the nuts with things like NOS and Blowers. A hemi is stock at what, 425hp? Oh well, its a STOCK CLASSIC VEHICLE. The only engines ever been in my chargers were 318's and they were just fine for what I wanted to do.

I helped build a couple "drag vehicles" that were also road worthy and each one of them ended up in the ditch, wrapped around a pole, bounced off a tree, etc. Not because they were bad drivers, but because with that much power most people want to use it when they shouldnt.

If you can CLEARLY explain why someone NEEDS a blower attached to their 440 or NEEDS NOS attached to the car they drive to and from school or whatever Id certainly like to hear it.

i dont like blowers or over nitrious cars either , but thats not the point . Some people do and that is there right or freedom to like it and have it as long as they are law abiding people!   

[68charger383]

In CA there has been a few serious accidents invoving inncoent motorists and bystanders to the races. The cops are justing trying to look like they are taking some action on this issue and getting some free PR. A few months back in this area they crushed a few of the cars that were caught with stolen parts and for street racing (I guess that's the law out here now) and they got national exposure http://blogs.edmunds.com/?7@@.ee9bf91/1

[Brock Samson]

perhaps drache you may want to extend your "argument" to guns,..
do the math.

[ChgrSteve67]

In CA there has been a few serious accidents involving Innocent motorists and bystanders to the races. The cops are justing trying to look like they are taking some action on this issue and getting some free PR. A few months back in this area they crushed a few of the cars that were caught with stolen parts and for street racing (I guess that's the law out here now) and they got national exposure http://blogs.edmunds.com/?7@@.ee9bf91/1

The cars they crushed contained mostly stolen parts and yes they said it was to make a show or example with them.
Usually the cops will have you remove the stolen parts, charge you for having possesion of the parts and you get the rest of your car back.
I'm sure a plea deal was struck like, surender your car and you'll just get probation. IF the car has soo many stolen parts they don't want to go through removing them they will crush it.
Wrecking yards, collision repair shops and chop shops get raided all of the time and in the end they will crush the cars rather than selling it.

Most of the street racing accidents where deaths occurred (had one occur about 100 yards from my house) occurred in stock vehicles.

The car modification angle is for public sympathy so the cops are not accused of harassing a bunch of kids hanging out. 
Also works well for getting Federal Funding.

When I was 18 or so the cops would secure parking lots and write everyone a ticket for loitering (since we were not technically cruising) they would bust kids for alcohol, curfew, illegal car modification the whole smash (Jacked up 4x4s were the big thing in my area).  This is nothing new. (The Federal Funding probably is)

Got a $550 ticket for engine modification in 1987.
1979 Ford Mustang 2.8 V6  - Some of the smog lines were missing and I had an after market air cleaner.

A buddy of mine got a "Excessive showmenship of power" ticket for doing a donut in a parking lot.
Didn't get a recless driving citation because he did a perfect circle - the cop told him.
Personally I think the cop did not want to go through the hassle of impounding the car that night, probably would cut into his ticket writting time.

Steve (CA Native)

[tkkruzer]

  hey guys, the reason they can get away with it is because it is a federal offence to remove smog equipment from your vehicle,without replacing it. in CA they go through smog inspection every year and you must have all that crap on your car and it must be in good working condition.  problem is the whole thing is crooked because some of that crap makes your car put out more emissions and run worse than without it  so do they really want clean air or just a bunch of worthless junk on a car so they can feel in power? who knows    Tom   

[Brock Samson]

actually it's every other year we have to smog our cars and it's really expensive to get the test and then the state certificate costs on top of that...
It's been a scandel here for decades,.. 
all of this regulation stuff is driving folks into buying new cars from the dealer and an end to shade tree mechanics,.. not to mention filling local, state and federal coffers.
  i sometimes forget how cool it is that 3 of my 4 vehicles are exempt from that B.S.

  http://www.theonion.com/content/video/china_celebrates_its_status_as

[tkkruzer]

yea I forgot it was everyother year,, but that was part of the reason I moved to arkansas. I used to live in colton,CA and my buddy caught a local cop standing on his patrol car looking over his privacy fence and told him he had to dispose of all his old car parts because it was an eye sore  to who? birds? planes? absolutely no one could see into his yard without his permission ,,, the authorities are just too socialist for my blood Now I have land and freedom (for now) and lots of old cars to play with  still miss the beach though,,,,Tom

[superduperbee]

actually it's every other year we have to smog our cars and it's really expensive to get the test and then the state certificate costs on top of that...
It's been a scandel here for decades,.. 
all of this regulation stuff is driving folks into buying new cars from the dealer and an end to shade tree mechanics,.. not to mention filling local, state and federal coffers.
  i sometimes forget how cool it is that 3 of my 4 vehicles are exempt from that B.S.

  http://www.theonion.com/content/video/china_celebrates_its_status_as

Anyone remember a Hot Rod Magazine article from the late 80s ? They took a 66 Chevelle 396, put catalytic converters on it and filled it with unleaded gas. They ran it on a dyno and sniffed the exhaust. It ran as clean as the New Toyota 4cyl.

[Drache]

perhaps drache you may want to extend your "argument" to guns,..
do the math.

nah I live in Canada and getting a gun here is like trying to find an honest priest. I dont see a use for personal handguns but rifles I for one hunt with. 90% of handguns are too weak to hunt with except for the few that were created especially for the purpose of hunting. Why you want to get into that arguement with me too? 

[Old Moparz]

There was a local cruise near me that started out with the majority of the vehicles being older classics & hot rods. As the years went by, the tuner crowd increased to a point where they outnumbered the older cars by a large margin. I stopped going because I wasn't interested in seeing who had the brightest neon lights under their car, or who had the most TV sets inside, or which goofy ass wing looked the most out of place on the back of some compact, 4 door commuter car, with tires that had less than a half inch of sidewall.....lol

Also, one really important reason I stopped going was that it was dangerous walking around the parking lot with my kid. Some of the drivers would do burnouts in the aisles, some would speed excessively, & some were just careless. Not that the tuner crowd is to blame on the whole, but the younger & less experienced drivers in general are. We were all young & did our share of dumb s**t in our own cars & sometimes learned the hard way by having an accident or getting tickets. It's always a few that ruin it for the crowd.

I think most of us are guilty of some kind of vehicle, or traffic violation, whether it's a minor or major one. We've changed things on our cars inside & out, we've modified the engine, & we've probably all driven a little bit above the speed limit. (Just a little though) You take a chance when you knowingly speed or make a mod that is questionable from a legal standpoint, so the expression "You play, you pay" seems to fit. Getting busted in the parking lot sucks, but I think it's a gray area of whether it was total BS or not.

In all likelihood, the complaints from the store or the property owner, from the past are valid. I've seen first hand the stupidity of bad drivers & the garbage left behind from pizza boxes & McD's wrappers. The excuse that they were street racing, or going to race because of the mods they made is pretty lame. I'd go to court to argue it, but as we learn from the past, it's almost a total waste of time in most cases. You still end up paying the fine & then have court fees added.

The younger crowd is just paying their dues that the older crowd has already paid, so get used to it. 

[Silver R/T]

The CA cops are actually trained to ID aftermarket parts on these cars.

from what I realize they are the only cops who have to go through courses just to be able to do so! Personally I say good for them! 

Really?  Good for them?

And then when they come after you what are you going to say?  Good for them?  Just because it happened to the tuner crowd doesn't mean it can't happen to you.  Grow up.

This is a plain-and-simple abuse of police power.

exactly, this bs is unconstitutional to the car owners in general

[bull]

Wow... just wow....

So just because I dont believe that someone needs a 600hp daily driver means I shouldn't be looking at chargers. Im talking about a STOCK vehicle compared to a vehicle that is done to the nuts with things like NOS and Blowers. A hemi is stock at what, 425hp? Oh well, its a STOCK CLASSIC VEHICLE. The only engines ever been in my chargers were 318's and they were just fine for what I wanted to do.

Why does anyone NEED a classic car at all? There are plenty of other cars out there that are safer, more fuel efficient and more useful. Who are you to decide what people need?

I helped build a couple "drag vehicles" that were also road worthy and each one of them ended up in the ditch, wrapped around a pole, bounced off a tree, etc. Not because they were bad drivers, but because with that much power most people want to use it when they shouldnt.

If you can CLEARLY explain why someone NEEDS a blower attached to their 440 or NEEDS NOS attached to the car they drive to and from school or whatever Id certainly like to hear it.

Again, why do you think it's up to you or anyone else to decide what people need? Would you like to come over to my house and explain to me why I don't need my guns or my fishing poles or my Kitchen Aid mixer or fuzzy covers on my toilet lids? Is it really your concern?

[2Gunz]

Wow... just wow....

So just because I dont believe that someone needs a 600hp daily driver means I shouldn't be looking at chargers. Im talking about a STOCK vehicle compared to a vehicle that is done to the nuts with things like NOS and Blowers. A hemi is stock at what, 425hp? Oh well, its a STOCK CLASSIC VEHICLE. The only engines ever been in my chargers were 318's and they were just fine for what I wanted to do.

I helped build a couple "drag vehicles" that were also road worthy and each one of them ended up in the ditch, wrapped around a pole, bounced off a tree, etc. Not because they were bad drivers, but because with that much power most people want to use it when they shouldnt.

If you can CLEARLY explain why someone NEEDS a blower attached to their 440 or NEEDS NOS attached to the car they drive to and from school or whatever Id certainly like to hear it.

We dont NEED alot of things. Actually we dont NEED most of the things we have.

The computer your typing on, the place you live, the TV, the microwave, the charger.

We do things and we buy things because it makes us happy.

Your happy with your 318.

Im kinda happy with my 440, but at some point it will become a stroker.

And if a 3000hp lawn mower engine makes somebody happy..........

Who are you to judge whats best for everybody else?

The REAL issue is you cant go bust people because you feel like it.
If they are drag racing, please arrest them before they kill somebody.
But hanging out in a parking lot?  It screams thrown out of court and lawsuit to me.


And sadly I tend to agree with you about the ricers.
They prolly are up to no good and probably should get ticketed.

But Im also not short sighted enough to think it starts and ends there.

How long before they tow away your charger saying its a gross polluter and not practical.

Then what?

[Old Moparz]

Again, why do you think it's up to you or anyone else to decide what people need? Would you like to come over to my house and explain to me why I don't need my guns or my fishing poles or my Kitchen Aid mixer or fuzzy covers on my toilet lids? Is it really your concern?

THOSE FUZZY COVERS SUCK!! 

I was over someones house once that had one that was so thick & padded the lid wouldn't stay up. I lifted it trying to relieve meself, & right in the middle of going, it fell back down. Scared the crap out of me when it slammed down & not to mention how freakin' wet it got since I was flowing full stream.   

I'm glad my wife doesn't like them or I'd pull it off & burn the damn thing. 

[twenty mike mike]

Unfortunately, older cars in CA are NOT exempt from smog laws, they are just exempt from the inspection every other year if they're 1975 or older. By law, the smog junk still has to be installed and operational. Until a couple of years ago, there was a rolling exemption so the year of the cars that required inspection would ratchet up every year, but now it's stuck at '75.

Soooo, a Mopar Club meet in a parking lot could be subject to the same harassment as the ricers. CA required smog equipment long before other states, so all Chargers here must have (by law) all the CA smog equipment. Yeah, I know it's not realistic, laws often aren't.

It's probably not likely that the cops would harass people at an organized event, or bother with the older cars, but the option is open for them. If you get stopped for speeding or some other vehicle infraction, the cop can certainly check for smog equipment and add that to your ticket.

[HITMAN 149]

Again, why do you think it's up to you or anyone else to decide what people need? Would you like to come over to my house and explain to me why I don't need my guns or my fishing poles or my Kitchen Aid mixer or fuzzy covers on my toilet lids? Is it really your concern?

THOSE FUZZY COVERS SUCK!! 

I was over someones house once that had one that was so thick & padded the lid wouldn't stay up. I lifted it trying to relieve meself, & right in the middle of going, it fell back down. Scared the crap out of me when it slammed down & not to mention how freakin' wet it got since I was flowing full stream.   

I'm glad my wife doesn't like them or I'd pull it off & burn the damn thing. 

OMG!!! LMFAO!!!!!!!!!! 
funny cause i'm on both sides of the fence on this one!!! hmmmmm illegal street racing kills lots of kids & innocent people!! and then again on the other hand... kinda douche that you take your blood sweat & tears car that you worked your asssss off to buy parts for & fix up... and next thing you know your getting tickets for just for hanging out!! and yesssss... what's stopping this from happening at ANY show that we bring our muscle cars too?!?!? yes most likely...when they were gonna leave the show.. they would prob have gottin into a few races..or speed away down the road... JUST like when a bunch of muscle cars leave a show... I'M sure NO ONE HERE HAS EVER BURNED OUT!?!?!?!? lol!! 
it's tough being an enthusiast and a copppper too.

[defiance]

If you can CLEARLY explain why someone NEEDS a blower attached to their 440 or NEEDS NOS attached to the car they drive to and from school or whatever Id certainly like to hear it.

First you CLEARLY explain to me why you NEEDS a 318 in a dodge charger and not a 1.x liter in a honda.  It will do the things you've listed QUITE well.  And you keep going back to 600HP - That's stock in some cars.  Oh, and while you're at it, how much you want to bet over half those ricers didn't have as much power as your 318?  How can you miss the hypocricy of criticizing their search for more power on the basis of "they don't NEED it" while you've got a car with more?

[68charger383]

OMG!!! LMFAO!!!!!!!!!! 
funny cause i'm on both sides of the fence on this one!!! hmmmmm illegal street racing kills lots of kids & innocent people!! and then again on the other hand... kinda douche that you take your blood sweat & tears car that you worked your asssss off to buy parts for & fix up... and next thing you know your getting tickets for just for hanging out!! and yesssss... what's stopping this from happening at ANY show that we bring our muscle cars too?!?!? yes most likely...when they were gonna leave the show.. they would prob have gottin into a few races..or speed away down the road... JUST like when a bunch of muscle cars leave a show... I'M sure NO ONE HERE HAS EVER BURNED OUT!?!?!?!? lol!! 
it's tough being an enthusiast and a copppper too.

Well I think it was said a few posts up, we paid our dues or tickets and now its their turn. Cops aren't going to bust in on a cruise night with drivers and spectators who are in the 30-60 age bracket who have the $ and the voice in the community to raise some hell. I saw a recent video of coffee and cars which goes on every Saturday in Irvine, CA and it was a whose/who of motorsports, a congressman, Ferrari's...people with power&cash. They were doing burnouts on the way out of the show. These kids in Riverside, I wasn't there, but would guess they were under 25 in age, are easy prey. Just like we were at that age, they meet up to show off the car, drink beers, meet some girls, maybe race! 

Almost every one of the cars will have something illegal or wrong with it which would allow them to get a ticket. They don't have the pull in the community to make the cops think twice about doing it or appear in court and fight it. Young kid/Ricer=guilty. Just like when we were younger. I'm not saying its right, but that is usually how it goes and how it has gone for a long time.

[Musicman]

We use to have a drag strip here in CT, but they shut it down years ago.... Consumer Reports uses it now for vehicle testing. However, a recent article has surfaced in the news which stated that Street Racers (Tuners) have become such a problem in the populated city areas (another big surprise) that they are now talking about reopening the local drag strip, which will hopefully encouraging these folks to use it.

As far as cops harassing car guys... we see them here too, but only at the Tuner events. As many others have already stated... Tuner and Muscle car guys are for the most part, two separate worlds of thought and behavior. As a Muscle car owner, I do not go out of my way to harass Tuners. I do not attempt to chase them down or get on their ass. I do not pull up to the stop light and challenge them. I do not weave and hover around them in traffic. However, when I am out driving in my 67, the tuner guys see the car and start acting like mosquito's at a picnic. Their a nuisance, you swat one, and a few seconds later theres another one bothering you. Not all mind you... many of them are just car guys like you & me... they just happen to be tuner guys... and there's nothing wrong with that. Unfortunately, they seem to be somewhat of a minority. If tuners are having trouble with the police harassing them, then they have probably brought it upon themselves. I don't agree with it, but I really don't think its that much different than the 50's when the police would harass the street rod crowd. A lot of drag strips popped up out of that era.

[Drache]

I dont know maybe its from losing a friend from street racing (wasnt racing just driving home from work) that I believe that something needs to be done! Everyone is taking this way out of hand and is getting a little pissy on it, hell I was just having fun ruffling some feathers. But I do believe that people need to EARN the right to drive their high powered vehicles, there's a reason you can lock out the top gear on new corvettes and such.

and jeez bull, did I SAY anything about taking away guns, hell I use a gun, I was trained with guns and Ive used them for work. What I was saying is there is no need for handguns or fully automatics or silencers outside of law enforcement or the military. But someone comes to take my hunting rifles and shotguns, then they better come armed.

And Im not saying only ricers ARE to blame for street racing, but they are the current major factor just as Chargers and such were back in thr 60s and 70s! And yes I know about cars with 600hp stock and personally I think they are nothing more than major league penis enlargements! One car magazine stated that 10% of Dodge vipers are destroyed 10minutes after purching and 90% of dodge viper accidents were with the cars in 1st or 2nd gear! I dont think just anyone should be able to dump down a shit load of money and buy a car they cant even handle!

Now bull to keep your testosterone levels down before an old man like you has a heart attack... I personally believe that everyone here can handle their vehicles because of experience. That was the point I was trying to make. As for these kids, Id bet that at least a quarter of them were known street racers and the cops just had them all together.

You streetrace with your Charger and yeah I hope you get slammed to the wall along with these punks, but I doubt you would. There is no argument or defense for street racing! In my fathers day it was the thing to do but they never did it down town Vancouver or some major city where if they lost control of their cars they could wipe out pedestrians or other innocent drivers. They took their Chargers, Chevelles, Mustangs and such outside city limits into the "back roads", staked it off, and raced that way, and you know what, the cops back then turned a blind eye to it because the only people hurt would have been the drivers.

[Brock Samson]

i found a car for ya' Drache...
 

   http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/toronto/archive/2008/04/03/163847.aspx

[Drache]

i found a car for ya' Drache...
 

   http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/toronto/archive/2008/04/03/163847.aspx

actually if you read a post I created Im picking up a '76 Aspen on Monday or Tuesday

and bull do fuzzy toilet seat covers really do anything?

Feels like this smiley suits me right about now:

[Brock Samson]

yeah,.. they keep my buns warm while in the Library, but the clean up is a beiotch... 

[Drache]

there you go Cody, the heat is off you and back onto me! 

[pettyfan43]

Maybe Im just the rare one here that thinks street racing is wrong... personally if someone has NOS on their car its no different that a huge assed blower sticking up from the hood. You don't need those things in a daily driver!

You drive around here with a huge assed blower sticking out of your hood you will get pulled over, simple as that. Same with illegally tinted windows! Some of these laws were put in place to save lives of innocent people! No one needs a 600hp daily driver anymore in my opinion, but you want to have that car on the track/strip, I'll be the first person in line drooling over it.

So you honestly think that performance modification of a vehicle is wrong?  You think it's wrong of me to shoot for 600hp in the build I'm building right now, simply because I "don't need it"?  Well, you know what, YOU don't need a CHARGER either.  Such a heavy body is wasteful and pointless, and the engine has WELL beyond the amount of power you need for daily driving, so you should not be allowed by law to own or drive it.  Seriously, you don't NEED more than a honda, so why should you be allowed to have it?
Think what you want, as long as I can think what I want about the hypocricy inherent in your opinion.  But when legislation begins making these decisions for us, something is broken.

At least we agree that the warrantless searches were wrong.


Having said that, in another article about this subject, there were reports that the owner of the parking lot had complained repeatedly and that the center's customers had been endangered, and that there were rampant skidmarks and burnout marks around, so not quite as black & white as this article paints.  Not condoning the actions of the police, simply saying there is more to it.

Holy CRAP!!!!! Defiance and I actually AGREE COMPLETELY on this issue!!!!!!!!!!!!!  IS the earth's rotation reversing, DID Hell actually FREEZE OVER?!?!!?!?


IF they were somewhere they were asked NOT to be, then they asked for it! If that's how it happened, then they should have stayed away when asked to.

As far as Drache, My 66 and 73 Chargers BOTH came with 318s originally, my 66 now has a 440 in it with a LOT more power and torque that was original in the car.

MY car should be IMPOUNDED according to your bent logic and reasoning. Defiance shouldn't own his car because he has customized his car and is building a NICE engine for it. Who are YOU to decide what OTHER people should have?  Just because a car is rebuilt for BETTER performance, DOES NOT mean the owner is a BONEHEAD who will street race, and if I want 500 HP worth of 440 in MY car, which was built by ME and using MY MONEY, I have EVERY RIGHT to do EXACTLY that, and YOU have no bearing in what I am able to do.

You may forget, the CONSTITUTION of this country GUARANTEES - LIFE, LIBERTY and the PURSUIT of HAPPINESS.  YOUR opinion DOES NOT change that and DOES NOT override that!!!! IF you don't like that I have a hot rod, GET OVER IT!  Everybody DOES NOT build their car to suit YOU, they build them for THEMSELVES.

In other words, your opinion don't mean much!

[pettyfan43]

Maybe Im just the rare one here that thinks street racing is wrong... personally if someone has NOS on their car its no different that a huge assed blower sticking up from the hood. You don't need those things in a daily driver!

You drive around here with a huge assed blower sticking out of your hood you will get pulled over, simple as that. Same with illegally tinted windows! Some of these laws were put in place to save lives of innocent people! No one needs a 600hp daily driver anymore in my opinion, but you want to have that car on the track/strip, I'll be the first person in line drooling over it.

So you honestly think that performance modification of a vehicle is wrong?  You think it's wrong of me to shoot for 600hp in the build I'm building right now, simply because I "don't need it"?  Well, you know what, YOU don't need a CHARGER either.  Such a heavy body is wasteful and pointless, and the engine has WELL beyond the amount of power you need for daily driving, so you should not be allowed by law to own or drive it.  Seriously, you don't NEED more than a honda, so why should you be allowed to have it?
Think what you want, as long as I can think what I want about the hypocricy inherent in your opinion.  But when legislation begins making these decisions for us, something is broken.

At least we agree that the warrantless searches were wrong.


Having said that, in another article about this subject, there were reports that the owner of the parking lot had complained repeatedly and that the center's customers had been endangered, and that there were rampant skidmarks and burnout marks around, so not quite as black & white as this article paints.  Not condoning the actions of the police, simply saying there is more to it.

Wow... just wow....

So just because I dont believe that someone needs a 600hp daily driver means I shouldn't be looking at chargers. Im talking about a STOCK vehicle compared to a vehicle that is done to the nuts with things like NOS and Blowers. A hemi is stock at what, 425hp? Oh well, its a STOCK CLASSIC VEHICLE. The only engines ever been in my chargers were 318's and they were just fine for what I wanted to do.

I helped build a couple "drag vehicles" that were also road worthy and each one of them ended up in the ditch, wrapped around a pole, bounced off a tree, etc. Not because they were bad drivers, but because with that much power most people want to use it when they shouldnt.

If you can CLEARLY explain why someone NEEDS a blower attached to their 440 or NEEDS NOS attached to the car they drive to and from school or whatever Id certainly like to hear it.

"Not because they were bad drivers, but because with that much power most people want to use it when they shouldnt."  OK Which is it, first you say it wasn't the driver, THEN you say it was. Which is it? I have NEVER had a car hit a tree, pole or ditch because it just decided it had enough and couldn't take it anymore!!!!

It's like the argument about Guns being a reason for crime. A gun is just a fancy paperweight until someone PICKS IT UP and shoots someone else.

Cars generally sit idle, until SOMEONE gets behind the wheel.  Even then, the car doesn't make too many of the decisions, (SARCASM ALERT) it is generally the DRIVER who choses to be responsible, or stupid. 

[Mike DC]

       

How to take a right away from the public, and get their consent every step of the way:


1.  Establish that it has killed one person.  Doesn't matter if it also saved millions, it just needs to kill one (white) person.

2.  When you start to "crack down on the violators" stick to distrusted minorities (that includes most teenagers) at first.

3.  Gradually expand the law's coverage wide enough to make a normal behavior into something technically illegal.



You can now issue regular fines to the public for something relatively normal, which functions as a tax. 

The richer classes live in less-patrolled areas and they can afford the fines.  So they are unaffected.  (But they are also terrified of minorites, so they will thank you for protecting them against this "threat.")

The poorer classes are disproportionately minorities, live in heavily-patrolled areas and also cannot afford to pay a lot of fines.  So now your society has one more tool to selectively criminalize and imprison the poor with.

[TheGhost]

Wow... just wow....

So just because I dont believe that someone needs a 600hp daily driver means I shouldn't be looking at chargers.

Who says they were daily drivers?

[70charginglizard]

Waste of time and money. Petty, nitpicking BS plain and simple. If they want to do some good there are hundreds of better uses for that money than to "raid" a bunch of ricer owners sitting in a parking lot.

I dont particularly like Import vehicles but in this case it doesn't seem like they were doing anything wrong here and should have been left alone.

[bull]

Again, why do you think it's up to you or anyone else to decide what people need? Would you like to come over to my house and explain to me why I don't need my guns or my fishing poles or my Kitchen Aid mixer or fuzzy covers on my toilet lids? Is it really your concern?

THOSE FUZZY COVERS SUCK!! 

I was over someones house once that had one that was so thick & padded the lid wouldn't stay up. I lifted it trying to relieve meself, & right in the middle of going, it fell back down. Scared the crap out of me when it slammed down & not to mention how freakin' wet it got since I was flowing full stream.   

I'm glad my wife doesn't like them or I'd pull it off & burn the damn thing. 

The fuzzy ones aren't as bad as the plastic padded ones. My mom just had to have those padded ones when I was a kid and I just got used to taking a leak while standing sideways to hold the lid up with my leg.

[TK73]

Hey Drache,

Just curious, why do you NEED rifles for hunting if there is a grocery store in driving distance... I don't ever recall NEEDING to hunt for my food, I just drop in Micky D's or Safeway... Are you that far out in the Great White North?

[Drache]

Hey Drache,

Just curious, why do you NEED rifles for hunting if there is a grocery store in driving distance... I don't ever recall NEEDING to hunt for my food, I just drop in Micky D's or Safeway... Are you that far out in the Great White North?

I don't eat beef as game meat is ALLOT more leaner and better for you. Until Save On Foods or Safeway stocks moose, deer, and bear, the only meat I buy from them is chicken breasts.