WARNING! DANGER! If you are or will run a flat tappet cam read this!!!

[ACUDANUT]

 What magazine is ME ??

[Ghoste]

Mopar Enthusiast.

[my73charger]

I have been talking with my car buddies about this situation and several of them insist the the Mobil 1 15/50 full synthetic (racing formula) is safe to run.  They also questioned whether or not you could add an EOS to fully synthetic successfully, something about not blending correctly.  Does anyone know?

[tatrick2me]

  Synthetic oil has never had zinc it don't blend right. So I don't think I'm about to go dump the Mobile 1 I've used with out a problem for 30 yrs.

[Spike]

Here is a good article from Hagerty's Insurance magazine.

Years ago, oil companies and automakers dicovered that zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP) was effective in reducing cam and lifter wear, as the compound interacts with the iron of the cam lobes and create a sacrificial barrier.

As of 1998, the ZDDP concentration in oils certified by the American Petroleum Institute (API) standardized at up to 1200 ppm (parts per million) phosphorous.

However, phosphorous levels were brought down to 800 ppm by 2004 because high phos concentrations shorten catalytic converter life in modern cars and modern roller cam engines don't require ZDDP's protection.

Soon, rebuilders of flat tappet engines particularly those from 1950s to the 1970s - were noting increased cam failure on newly assembled engines. Many engine builders have tied the failures to the reformulated oils. Although API spokesman Dennis Bachelde asserts that API-ranked oils are compatible with older vehicles and the ZDDP levels in current SM-rated oils are sufficient to protect flat tappet engines.

If you are in doubt about using the current generation of 800 ppm SM- rated oils try these options.
Use a oil rated for diesel and gasoline engines (up to 1000 ppm). Available from many oil companies.
Use a ZDDP additive such as ZDDPLUS (zddplus.com) or Cam Shield (cam-shield.com) with every oil change.
Classic Car Motor Oil (classiccarmotoroil.com) contains 1500-1600 ppm.
Additional protection, essential during the start up phase for any fresh engine, can be provided by generous use  of an assembly lube with large doses of ZDDP like GM E.O.S Assembly Lube.(PN 1052367)

[Ghoste]

I don't know that I agree with their recommendation to use diesel rated stuff anymore but I applaud an insurance company for taking a pro-active role in safeguarding their customers interests.

[my73charger]

Holy smokes.  They are raising the price of GM EOS to $22.00/bottle here locally.  They told me it was given a new part number.

[ACUDANUT]

Raising the price of EOS.  Forget Gm. Go with Rottela. 

[62 Max]

Holy smokes.  They are raising the price of GM EOS to $22.00/bottle here locally.  They told me it was given a new part number.

Don't take this the wrong way but why do some of you guys insist on buying addatives when there are good oils availiable that already contain sufficient quantities of zinc ?

[smerritt]

How important is it to add a zinc additive to engine oil when the engine is not driven hard and racks up less
than 50 miles a year? Is it necessary under these conditions?

[Ghoste]

If it were my engine, I'd still add it even if it were only going on and off a trailer, but that's just me.   As for screw GM and going Rotella, Rotella has dropped the zinc level in their oil and that is part of how this thread took off in the first place.  As for buying a specialty oil with the levels needed, I can't speak for everyone else but here in Mayberry it's far cheaper for me to buy regular oil and add  (in my case) the Comp Cams stuff than it is to buy a boutique oil.

[my73charger]

If it were my engine, I'd still add it even if it were only going on and off a trailer, but that's just me.   As for screw GM and going Rotella, Rotella has dropped the zinc level in their oil and that is part of how this thread took off in the first place.  As for buying a specialty oil with the levels needed, I can't speak for everyone else but here in Mayberry it's far cheaper for me to buy regular oil and add  (in my case) the Comp Cams stuff than it is to buy a boutique oil.

I agree.  I already chewed up a cam last year.  For me it is worth the peace of mind to add the EOS at every oil change.  And for the record, I am using RotellaT and still adding it.

[ACUDANUT]

If it were my engine, I'd still add it even if it were only going on and off a trailer, but that's just me.   As for screw GM and going Rotella, Rotella has dropped the zinc level in their oil and that is part of how this thread took off in the first place.  As for buying a specialty oil with the levels needed, I can't speak for everyone else but here in Mayberry it's far cheaper for me to buy regular oil and add  (in my case) the Comp Cams stuff than it is to buy a boutique oil.

Ghoste, who said screw GM. ??  I simply said...forget them.  The BIG QUESTION is why Chrysler does not have EOS. Don't they care

[Ghoste]

Sorry I wasn't trying to flame you in any way.  I wasn't even thinking in terms of exact quotes or misquotes, in this case "forget" and "screw" were meant in the same way to me.
As for why Chrysler doesn't offer it, I believe they are, but I'd like to know a little more about the product before I throw it in.

[ACUDANUT]

  Ghoste, no problem.  I guess I was worried about comming across as an Donkey. A_ _.

[MOPARHOUND!]

Quote from page 1 :

Mopar also sells the correct additive under VU 1157 part #

[Ghoste]

BUT...  does anyone know the chemical makeup of the Mopar product?  I'd still like to know more about it before using it.

[AKcharger]

ZZDD plus is $10, I'm going with that stuff

[BronzeOnSteelies]

I change my oil once every season and I just did it. I am getting a bottle of ZZDP Plus to put in there before I drive it now.

The local hot rod shop owner agrees that you need to put it in for every oil change not just break in.
He also said he sells Shaeffer 15/40 oil for 6$ a quart that has the zinc in it. I guess it is not a sure thing that it has enough in it based on this thread.

[Ghoste]

Is it a little slap at the EPA that Penn oil with the zinc in it is green? 

[1969chargerrtse]

I use the Valvoline VR1 racing oil, here is some great news from their site, about the zinc level in the oil.

http://www.valvoline.com/downloads/2008-003a.pdf

Many hands-on car enthusiasts and engine experts believe the lower levels of zinc in "SM" engine oil is causing excessive wear in older style push-rod and flat tappet engines. This is despite the fact that all new engine oil classifications are intended to be backward compatible. This has resulted in the widely accepted belief that modern engine oil is not adequate to protect older engines.

There are high-zinc engine oils available to meet this need. It is important to note, however, that the entire additive package still needs to be balanced for best performance. For example, engine oil with a high zinc level but low detergent may not perform over a drain interval of 3,000 miles or longer.
Valvoline offers two solutions to the zinc issue

Valvoline Racing VR1: 75% higher zinc than SM engine oil with a balanced additive package designed to work in both racing and street-legal applications. This product will protect older style push-rod and flat tappet engines. Valvoline provides this product in both multi and mono viscosity grades: SAE 20W-50 (part vv211), straight SAE 50 (part vv235), SAE 10W-30 (part vv205), SAE 30(part vv223), SAE 40 (part vv229), and SAE 60 (part vv241)

[General_01]

Jer, a guy on the 71-74 Charger Board, posted this link. I guess you can buy Classic Car Motor Oil from a place in Indiana. I have not purchased from them, but thought I would pass this info along.

http://www.classiccarmotoroil.com/

[375instroke]

Synthetic oil has never had zinc it don't blend right. So I don't think I'm about to go dump the Mobile 1 I've used with out a problem for 30 yrs.

Here's a link to 20 samples of Mobile 1 test results, and they all show zinc and phosphorous.  Why do you say your Mobile 1 has never had zinc in it?

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html

[375instroke]

Ghoste, who said screw GM. ??  I simply said...forget them.  The BIG QUESTION is why Chrysler does not have EOS. Don't they care

No.  They don't care.  They don't sell us the parts we need.  The parts they do sell us are often crap, and overpriced.  When someone does make a part we want, that they won't, they have them arrested.

[b5blue]

THANK YOU FOR THIS INFO!I just finished rebuilding my 440 end of last year and if my son had needed to take the "beater" to collage I would have ground down the new cam to 0 lift by now!Lucky I only put few miles on it before finding this.I'm running VR1 now, going to open up my filter and hope for the best!