Academic Excercise...what are our cars worth?

[pettybird]

Emphatically, the cars are NOT NOT NOT for sale.

Not even to Stuart or Danny, nice fellas that they are.


I kick the question around with my friend Steve Kay, and we've got ideas about our "beater" wing cars.  It's hard to place a value on them because they're in between the roaches and the restored cars, which is something you don't see.  So, we have a couple of very well sorted, very original Superbirds, which I could drive across the country, and Steve's Q5 is kinda in the same boat.  You know how car guys get to talking nonsense when they're bored, and I'm trying to keep State Farm honest.

B5/black buckets/console, rebuilt/mint 440/auto, #'s motor but not trans, very solid, 50+% original paint, needs lower 1/4s, rust around rear wheel wells and quarter at rocker seam, iffy trunk pan (soft but all there) and rust inside the lip of the trunk lid.  Doors forward there is no rust, the car drives well enough that we're taking it to St. Louis, and it's 100% complete.  new/refurbished interior.

Corporation Blue/black bench, 440 4 speed, all numbers match (it's a lot more original,) repainted in 1974 and needs total paint and bodywork, needs lower 1/4s also, tail panel, trunk lid, rocker panel seam area.  Trunk pan is better, nose is a little worse.  may need a fender dogleg patch.  original, unrebuilt drivetrain, but I'd drive the car to California.  interior original, needs seat cover/dash pad/carpet (here at the house) installed, so assume for value purposes that the interior is very nice. 



So, what's the call?  Obviously we'd never be able to replace them as they're family members (I bothered yesterday to notice the B5 car's motor assembly date is my birthday--nice touch!)  and that's why Marty's getting a 5.7 Hemi for next year. 


I'll put this at the bottom, too, just in case Stuart forgot 


Emphatically, the cars are NOT NOT NOT for sale.

Not even to Stuart or Danny, nice fellas that they are.

[moparstuart]

doug buddy i dont want the superbirds well really i do but i covet the ratty canadian daytona so thats the one you need to sell me !!   

  I'd put a price of 100k-125k on the petty car just because of the rare color  In a better market much more 

[69_500]

I figured I'd chime in pretty early on this one since my name was mentioned not once but twice in the post.

Okay not to be harsh but personally I'd have a hard time placing a value on the two Superbirds that you guys have. Both being what I'd consider "driver" cars. In the same category as my 500. They are far from being total projects, but at the same time nearly as far from an OE restored car as well. Prices on the cars seems to be in the tank over the last year, but in my opinion it is more back to reality, once again just my opinion. Now seeing what some of the other Superbirds I've heard of being for sale lately have been bringing, I'd put the value of your Petty Bird at around $85-95K right now in today's market, and the B5 blue Bird at around $65-70K in todays market. The problem in todays market is that the project cars are still outlandishly priced because people always envision them being completed to an OE standard and then getting the mega bucks out of them. And to take a total project or a car in the same condition as say my 500 you'd have nearly as much money in both to go through them completely.

Now I'm the same as Stuart, I'd much rather have the Daytona than the Birds. I was actually trying to buy the same daytona when you guys bought it. As far as Steve's Daytona (Q5) I haven't seen that car in plenty of years. Can't exactly recall the condition of it at that time. I'd put the value on his Daytona if my memory serves me correct on the condition of it at around $100-110K. These figures are all subject to change with the change in economy, market, and the conceived values of these cars in a short time span after some of the major auctions are aired on TV. 

[nascarxx29]

I remember a Steve Kay sometime back who had a F6 green daytona project driver.And sold or traded it for a 70 RT coronet ragtop

[pettybird]

I remember a Steve Kay sometime back who had a F6 green daytona project driver.And sold or traded it for a 70 RT coronet ragtop

he had the R/T throughout his Daytona ownership.  it was sold to detroit, came back to cleveland much worse than it left, and is gone again.  the guy in Ohio that bought it sold Ed Cook his red Hemi 500.  cool car--white, black top, B5 interior, Petty blue stripe, 440/auto/super track pack car from Oklahoma with 95% original paint and absolutely no rust. 

he sold the F6 car in 94-95 to North Carolina and it just fell off the map.  NOM, 4 speed, 4.10 car, ps/PDB, black buckets with no console.  bought from Steve Klein in NY. 

currently he has another "driver project" that's on the cusp of getting restored (good help that doesn't put you in the poorhouse is the holdup.)  Q5/black/black wing, 440/auto #'s motor but not trans, buckets/console, PS/manual drums, radio delete, steelies with dog dishes, one manual OS mirror, 3.55 gears.   was at the '96 mopar nationals in dark blue, motor on the side, looking like total hell. 



working where I do now I see how much it costs to build a top level car, and I wouldn't want to do it even if I had the money.  Danny your figures are pretty close to what we came up with here, too...  I figure 70-75 on the B5 car and 85-110 (wild card due to the color) on the petty car, and 100-115 on Steve's car.  there's probably a decent deal of prejudice in my figures, though...


it's all academic anyway, so i wouldn't be offended if you'd told me three dollars 

[moparstuart]

  ok i'll doulbe the 3 dollars and give you 6     

[PocketThunder]

  ok i'll doulbe the 3 dollars and give you 6     

I'll one up stu and give you $7.   

[moparstuart]

I remember a Steve Kay sometime back who had a F6 green daytona project driver.And sold or traded it for a 70 RT coronet ragtop

he had the R/T throughout his Daytona ownership.  it was sold to detroit, came back to cleveland much worse than it left, and is gone again.  the guy in Ohio that bought it sold Ed Cook his red Hemi 500.  cool car--white, black top, B5 interior, Petty blue stripe, 440/auto/super track pack car from Oklahoma with 95% original paint and absolutely no rust. 

he sold the F6 car in 94-95 to North Carolina and it just fell off the map.  NOM, 4 speed, 4.10 car, ps/PDB, black buckets with no console.  bought from Steve Klein in NY. 

currently he has another "driver project" that's on the cusp of getting restored (good help that doesn't put you in the poorhouse is the holdup.)  Q5/black/black wing, 440/auto #'s motor but not trans, buckets/console, PS/manual drums, radio delete, steelies with dog dishes, one manual OS mirror, 3.55 gears.   was at the '96 mopar nationals in dark blue, motor on the side, looking like total hell. 



working where I do now I see how much it costs to build a top level car, and I wouldn't want to do it even if I had the money.  Danny your figures are pretty close to what we came up with here, too...  I figure 70-75 on the B5 car and 85-110 (wild card due to the color) on the petty car, and 100-115 on Steve's car.  there's probably a decent deal of prejudice in my figures, though...


it's all academic anyway, so i wouldn't be offended if you'd told me three dollars 

oh and my 100-125 price tag on the petty car was thinking of one certain buyer on the high end price . I know they would be very interested if the car was for sale . 

[69_500]

I'm always shy on guessing the values on people's car because I'm always afraid they will get upset if I really tell them what I think. I just see how people tend to go when purchasing a car. They seem just as willing to buy for instance the burnt Superbird that was on ebay, as they would to buy one of yours cars. Reason being most of the people with money will be taking to a level people like me and you never could afford to, and cost wise it isn't that much different in restoring a car that is nearly gone as to doing that kind of a restoration on one that is complete and running.

Is steve going to be doing his Q5 Daytona here soon? Or is he still enjoying that 71 that he picked up? Back in February I spent a lot of time at the swap here in Indy talking to Steve about various cars.

[pettybird]

I'm always shy on guessing the values on people's car because I'm always afraid they will get upset if I really tell them what I think. I just see how people tend to go when purchasing a car. They seem just as willing to buy for instance the burnt Superbird that was on ebay, as they would to buy one of yours cars. Reason being most of the people with money will be taking to a level people like me and you never could afford to, and cost wise it isn't that much different in restoring a car that is nearly gone as to doing that kind of a restoration on one that is complete and running.

Is steve going to be doing his Q5 Daytona here soon? Or is he still enjoying that 71 that he picked up? Back in February I spent a lot of time at the swap here in Indy talking to Steve about various cars.

it's stalled right now, and it's killing him.  he took off the driver's side quarter panel and found an appalling amount of hack job welding and cutting inside.  remember the car was tubbed?  he replaced what he could see, but didn't know how much worse it was.  i told him we belong in the hall of shame together for each of us letting a summer go by with a broken wing car.  I would say that body work will be done by spring/summer.  he's not sure what to do with the car (meaning take it down all the way, rotisserie and make it mint, etc, or put a nice paint job on it and drive it around.)

I miss his car almost as much as I miss the Petty car.  I still can't wrap my head around what happened to it, though. 

[pettybird]

oh and my 100-125 price tag on the petty car was thinking of one certain buyer on the high end price . I know they would be very interested if the car was for sale . 

persistent, isn't she?

i'll bet she's thinking more like $60k though 

[70Sbird]

Doug,
You've ridden in and seen my car, (and helped get it running roadside more than once  ) and I think mine falls in the same category as yours, It really would benefit from a good repaint, but is still fairly presentable "as-is" runs and drives fairly reliably, and is a good 10 footer that has not been restored but just "maintained". Non numbers matching (the jury is still out on that) drivetrain, and Charger seats.
I'm not bragging but it appraised at $150,000 for insurance replacement value and I have turned down $100,000 for it.
I always said that if I ever saw an offer of six figures, there would be an empty spot in my garage and two black marks (limited slip Dana 60) out of my driveway. but when I did get a offer, it only took a millisecond to turn it down. I've wanted one of these wing cars for a least 3/4 of my life and as for me , It's really not about the money. Hell, I drive the car to work, to Lowe's to but paint, take the kids to dance class, and just for the fun of it. How can you put a price on that?

By the way the appraisal was in spring 2007 and it is  B5 440 4 barrel with a console 4-speed

[notabird]

I had always thought 6 figures would buy our daytona but after actually owning one and learning the history of aero cars and meeting so many friends you cant put a price on that. People always ask what is it worth? and I tell them it doesnt matter because we dont want to sell.Brent

[moparstuart]

oh and my 100-125 price tag on the petty car was thinking of one certain buyer on the high end price . I know they would be very interested if the car was for sale . 

persistent, isn't she?

i'll bet she's thinking more like $60k though 

maybe but she has the money and if it was for sale i bet she would pay 125 k if she had too   

[moparstuart]

I had always thought 6 figures would buy our daytona but after actually owning one and learning the history of aero cars and meeting so many friends you cant put a price on that. People always ask what is it worth? and I tell them it doesnt matter because we dont want to sell.Brent

keep that attitude , I had a chance to and lost out , but i still love that car dont ever let it go .     

[pettybird]

it's hard for people to comprehend just how attached you can get to these crazy things, and what you'd pass up to have one.  BJ certainly doesn't help the common 80iq "car guy" either.  dad's family never got it, and as recently as last year they pointed out that we could do a lot of stuff with the money from selling just one!

i've started telling people that it doesn't matter how much it's worth, because the only thing i'd want to do with the money is buy the car back.

[moparstuart]

  plus all the sentimental value , knowing what they meant to your dad. 

[69_500]

it's hard for people to comprehend just how attached you can get to these crazy things, and what you'd pass up to have one.  BJ certainly doesn't help the common 80iq "car guy" either.  dad's family never got it, and as recently as last year they pointed out that we could do a lot of stuff with the money from selling just one!

i've started telling people that it doesn't matter how much it's worth, because the only thing i'd want to do with the money is buy the car back.

Best comments I've heard in years about wing cars Doug. Thats what I keep telling people. When all my relatives ask me why I want a daytona so bad, and its because they think I want it because its expensive, but I tell them I'd want one if they were only a $500 car. I just love them. I like them and 500's and birds, but we all know which ones I prefer. I'd still want them if they weren't worth anything, because honestly when I first started liking 500's you could sell a charger r/t for much more than a 500.

[moparstuart]

 I really wish i had not been as picky before they went so out of sight in price , they were always out of my price range but I would have at least had one like dougs .

[hotrod98]

Stuart, sounds like the 30K, #2 condition bird that I turned down because it had a bench seat...six years ago. Who knew that the prices would jump so high, so fast. I'll have more than that in my wife's bird clone. Of course it will be a much nicer car, just not as valuable.
I'm still working on buying a real one...haven't given up.

[moparstuart]

Stuart, sounds like the 30K, #2 condition bird that I turned down because it had a bench seat...six years ago. Who knew that the prices would jump so high, so fast. I'll have more than that in my wife's bird clone. Of course it will be a much nicer car, just not as valuable.
I'm still working on buying a real one...haven't given up.

I'm sure you will get one sooner or later !  You will be able to drive the clone and not feel as bad if you hurt it.
  I'm gonna drive the hell out of the birdible untill the dayclona's done .  Then drive it some more   

[nakita7]

Why do you ask?

[Daytona Guy]

I will chime in – even though mine is a clone. I believe that my car could bring between 50 and 60K. People that I deal with (Real Daytona owners) would love a nice clone to enjoy and drive around. Many Daytona owners that I know rarely ever take their cars out (it seems Bird owners get theirs out more often that I have experienced). Therefore, having a nice clone can be in high demand yet there are not that many around. They are... 1) More Affordable.  2) More Insurable. 3) Less risky of a drive. 4) Can be personalized (customized). 5) Has the same "Shock and Awe" factor.

[moparstuart]

I will chime in – even though mine is a clone. I believe that my car could bring between 50 and 60K. People that I deal with (Real Daytona owners) would love a nice clone to enjoy and drive around. Many Daytona owners that I know rarely ever take their cars out (it seems Bird owners get theirs out more often that I have experienced). Therefore, having a nice clone can be in high demand yet there are not that many around. They are... 1) More Affordable.  2) More Insurable. 3) Less risky of a drive. 4) Can be personalized (customized). 5) Has the same "Shock and Awe" factor.

   still drool every time i see it dane

[nitrometal]

While we're on the subject....and just for fun....

What do you feel my Petty "Win the King's Car" contest Superbird clone would be worth?  It is an ultimate Petty collectible but it's not a perfect clone because they took a lot of shortcuts to get the race car look.  To me it's worth a lot of money but to the purists out there, they probably wouldn't care for it.  Maybe a huge Petty fan would pay more.

What do you think?  If I was to get it appraised how should I go about it?

Phil

[moparstuart]

  I dont know all the details of the car,  but i would guess 35-40 k not knowing all the details .

[WingCharger]

Did Daytona Guy make his own daytona nose, or did he use a supplier? His Daytona is my personal favorite, real or clone.

[hotrod98]

I would say that my car will be worth around 40K when it's finished. Part of that is because of it being a triple black R/T SE to begin with.

[pettybird]

While we're on the subject....and just for fun....

What do you feel my Petty "Win the King's Car" contest Superbird clone would be worth? 

Phil

it would be worth more by lowering the front out of the sky and a with a pair of repop quarter decals!  odd that they left it like that--between the decals and the alignment you'd be out what, a hundred bucks?

Marty sits too high up front but i need to knock down the tire size before I can drop him an inch or two. 


are you enjoying the car?  that's the most important part!

[hotrod98]

While we're on the subject....and just for fun....

What do you feel my Petty "Win the King's Car" contest Superbird clone would be worth? 

Phil

it would be worth more by lowering the front out of the sky and a with a pair of repop quarter decals!  odd that they left it like that--between the decals and the alignment you'd be out what, a hundred bucks?

Marty sits too high up front but i need to knock down the tire size before I can drop him an inch or two.


are you enjoying the car? that's the most important part!

Along with those changes, I would install a 426 hemi and make a few other changes, but would pretty much leave the car alone as far as other cosmetics to hold it's value.
Just sort of improve where they left off.
I would get a kcik out of driving it though just the way it is. 

[C500]

I will chime in – even though mine is a clone. I believe that my car could bring between 50 and 60K. People that I deal with (Real Daytona owners) would love a nice clone to enjoy and drive around. Many Daytona owners that I know rarely ever take their cars out (it seems Bird owners get theirs out more often that I have experienced). Therefore, having a nice clone can be in high demand yet there are not that many around. They are... 1) More Affordable.  2) More Insurable. 3) Less risky of a drive. 4) Can be personalized (customized). 5) Has the same "Shock and Awe" factor.

WOW, that is one awesome machine!!! 

[nitrometal]

it would be worth more by lowering the front out of the sky and a with a pair of repop quarter decals!  odd that they left it like that--between the decals and the alignment you'd be out what, a hundred bucks?

Marty sits too high up front but i need to knock down the tire size before I can drop him an inch or two. 


are you enjoying the car?  that's the most important part!

I cranked the torsion bars all the way down and it looks a lot better now (that was a studio photo of the car before I picked it up).  What quarter decals are you talking about???

Yes!   I'm enjoying the car (wouldn't you?).  It's a blast to drive and it gets a ton of attention wherever I go.   

[hotrod98]

Except for the fact that it would alter the "as built" aspect, I would add the wing decals. Those scream out superbird. I still like the car regardless.

[pettybird]

What quarter decals are you talking about???

Yes!   I'm enjoying the car (wouldn't you?).  It's a blast to drive and it gets a ton of attention wherever I go.   

i know it gets the attention...we have one that color here at home.  they're awesome   I'd use that thing for my daily driver!


I would replace the generic sign shop "plymouth" decals with the repop ones in the correct font. 

[hotrod98]

I agree.
I mean on both counts...change the decals and drive it daily. If it's like any of my 383 cars though, it probably gets around 10 mpg. They don't get driven much which is a shame really.
That's why I'm going with the late model hemi and od tranny in the wife's bird clone. Hope to get at least 20 mpg on the highway. Maybe 16 in town.