hemigeno's Daytona restoration - a few more tweaks... again!

[hemigeno]

I took some shots of the transmission, partly to ask for some opinions or input about what to do with it.  The transmission is the numbers-matching piece, so it is going back into the car for obvious reasons.  Vance originally had cleaned up, filled in and painted the case to mimic an as-cast appearance.  It was my decision to ask him to clean the case back off and leave it bare (although you can see it's been wiped down with cosmoline to preserve the metal and keep it from rusting).

You can see from the pictures that by cleaning everything off, it has exposed a fair amount of pitting in the metal.  After the car's engine fire in 1977 the car was stored for several years outside.  After Davtona bought it, the car was finally brought in out of the elements or I suppose the pitting woud have been worse than what you see now. While the tranny will function fine, there is a dilemma.  Should I leave the case bare but pitted, or should the case have all the pits filled in and painted to look like a fresh casting (with a light coating of cosmoline just like it has right now)?  Sometimes I out-think myself, and asking Vance to take this case down to bare metal is a classic example.


P.S.  Vance knows/told me the shift lever nuts are not correct, they're just temps.

[hemigeno]

A picture of the gas tank's stamping at the flange/rim... only found on Chrysler-issued parts.

The second picture shows the Dana, which is still being detailed.  We have 9 out of the 10 cover bolts (those have a small "E"), and the correct fill plug (has an embossed "W").  Just this week the part number was stenciled on the passenger's side tube.  The original stencil marking was still visible when they cleaned the housing off, so it was easy to replicate the size and font exactly.

In the last picture you can see the rear shocks.  The ID paint daub was applied to the bottom eyelet prior to installation and got on the bushing, and you can see remnants of the ID paint on the bushing (the paint cracks as the attachment bolt is torqued down).

[hemigeno]

Some exhaust clamp detail shots here...

The first is the number stamping on the Q-clamps.  We've already discussed that Q-clamps were not used universally on '69 cars, but for those who got them, this is the number stamping you'd see.

In the last two, I tried to show the (only very slight) difference between original clamps and the repros offered through Frank Badalson.  Frank's clamps are quite good, with the only major difference being that small vestige of a tab still visible - perhaps where the clamps were stamped out in series and broken/sheared off?

The last picture does show that there's a difference in the locknuts between the repro and this particular original clamp (removed from Bill Card's Daytona BTW), but the style of nut used may have differed from timeperiod to timeperiod and from parts vendor to parts vendor.  Frank's clamps would definitely stay on my car if I didn't already have a set of original clamps on the way.

[hemigeno]

These are shots of the oil pan rail and inspection cover, showing the not-so-complete paint coverage we kicked around earlier in the thread. 

[moparstuart]

I took some shots of the transmission, partly to ask for some opinions or input about what to do with it.  The transmission is the numbers-matching piece, so it is going back into the car for obvious reasons.  Vance originally had cleaned up, filled in and painted the case to mimic an as-cast appearance.  It was my decision to ask him to clean the case back off and leave it bare (although you can see it's been wiped down with cosmoline to preserve the metal and keep it from rusting).

You can see from the pictures that by cleaning everything off, it has exposed a fair amount of pitting in the metal.  After the car's engine fire in 1977 the car was stored for several years outside.  After Davtona bought it, the car was finally brought in out of the elements or I suppose the pitting woud have been worse than what you see now. While the tranny will function fine, there is a dilemma.  Should I leave the case bare but pitted, or should the case have all the pits filled in and painted to look like a fresh casting (with a light coating of cosmoline just like it has right now)?  Sometimes I out-think myself, and asking Vance to take this case down to bare metal is a classic example.


P.S.  Vance knows/told me the shift lever nuts are not correct, they're just temps.

my 2 cents are not worth anything but i say leave it original as it is with the pits

[hemigeno]

Even though the trunk compartment can't be officially completed until the trunk mat arrives, Vance has mocked everything up and located where the jack hold-down clamp stud will go.  This time, the hold-down stud will be located so that everything lays flat.  That was not the case with where Creative Industries originally located my car's stud.  

My apologies again to Chris (Daytona R/T SE) for the dimensions I provided and he initially used, which don't work out so hot...  

There is also a lot of undercoat/deadener left to be applied in this area and the back end of the car in general - even though this was not a J55 undercoat car, you'd be surprised at how much undercoat the cars actually received back there.  Vance may have completed all that work by the time this is written, but it wasn't done yet when I was there.

The second picture is where the ground wire for the console wiring harness attaches, beneath the front seat.

[hemi68charger]

Geno, being that iron casting in it's own right wasn't smooth, I would leave the tranny case the way it is...........

[hemigeno]

my 2 cents are not worth anything but i say leave it original as it is with the pits

Geno, being that iron casting in it's own right wasn't smooth, I would leave the tranny case the way it is...........

OK, two votes for bare/pitted...  duly noted

[hemigeno]

This is an original transmission mount/isolator nut (mine was still with the crossmember, so it could be the one from my car after being cleaned up - I didn't ask), where you can see the red anodizing or coloring still showing through pretty well.

The last two pictures are other shots I took of the nut Vance installed.

[hemigeno]

The brake backing plates have been left bare, just wiped down with cosmoline.  You can see an example of front and back plates treated the way Vance intends to leave them.  I know, I know, there are lots of examples of cars with these having been given a black phosphate treatment, and there's nothing wrong with that.  Vance has access to a very low-mileage '69 RoadRunner just a few miles from his shop, and its backing plates have no traces of black on them, only a coating very similar to the cosmoline look.  One of the NOS parts suppliers brought some good used 1969-dated backing plates by Vance's shop, and a quick washdown revealed - you guessed it - bare, untreated metal.

As pitted up as my original backing plates were, it wouldn't surprise me at all if those were bare pieces as well - and I found no hint of black in the "before" pictures I have of the car.

[hemigeno]

Here are some comparison photos of two original Dana axle plugs.  The reddish one is a vintage '69 piece, although the edges have been worn down a bit.  The other is from a '70 E-body.  So far, no one knows a whole lot about what "should" be used on what application.  Vance is planning to detail that hole the way it should be, but I'm not sure if he intends to use the vintage or reproduction red plug.  The search goes on for a nicer original for sure, and that's a 10 second thing to change out if one is eventually found.

[hemigeno]

I didn't remember if I had ever posted pictures of the Lower Control Arm date codes.  The year of manufacture is indicated by the first digit on the upper stud head stamping, in this case a "9" for 1969.  The day of the year these were manufactured is always indicated on the lower stud head stamping - "133" and "137" for this pair, which decodes to May 13th and May 17th.

I have forgotten what the second and third digits mean on the upper head stamping, although one of them indicates which shift it was assembled on.  The other might mean which production line, but I don't recall which is which.  Vance found documents many years ago which explained what the numbers meant and I think he gave me a copy, but I have no clue where it's at right now. 

[hemigeno]

One of the parts that hasn't been refurbished or installed yet is a correct starter.  These pictures show that the barrel is dated the 20th week of '69 (May 11-17) which should be when it was assembled, and we think the nosepiece was cast in the third or fourth week of April (depending on how much imagination you use in counting the dots!!).

This should be rebuilt, cleaned up, detailed and installed pretty soon.

[hemigeno]

To wrap up this batch of pictures, I took a few which show the motor mount attachment bolts and the steering gearbox attament bolts.  The last one also shows engine paint overspray on the spark plugs, just as it should be.

That's all I have for now.  

[69_500]

Gene, went through the photo's again and tried to post some of the same area's to show differences in lighting and camera's. Cropped the image to show that the overspray isn't so thick in area's, and I shrunk down the photo of the date on the starter to only show the date so you can try to decipher if you want.

[tan top]

  more awesome pictures      wow Geno      

[maxwellwedge]

Gene, went through the photo's again and tried to post some of the same area's to show differences in lighting and camera's. Cropped the image to show that the overspray isn't so thick in area's, and I shrunk down the photo of the date on the starter to only show the date so you can try to decipher if you want.

Hey Danny - That is the wrong starter..... the pics above of the un-restored one has the correct casting number for a 69 car. We will give you a free pass on that one. 

[69_500]

Gene, went through the photo's again and tried to post some of the same area's to show differences in lighting and camera's. Cropped the image to show that the overspray isn't so thick in area's, and I shrunk down the photo of the date on the starter to only show the date so you can try to decipher if you want.

Hey Danny - That is the wrong starter..... the pics above of the un-restored one has the correct casting number for a 69 car. We will give you a free pass on that one. 

No pass needed feel free to go ahead and      me. Back to the photo folder then for the correct starter and see if I can crop that photo. I like staring at pictures of nuts and bolts and date stamps but for some reason my wife is giving me weird looks and rolling her eyes as I keep telling her "Just 1 more minute and I'll be off of the computer".

[maxwellwedge]

Oh Yeah - I know those looks....... 

[nascarxx29]

Refering to the starter this from page 42 I knew I remembered reading something about a starter earlier on

Re: **Updated pictures of my Daytona's restoration with November '08 PICS **
« Reply #835 on: December 26, 2008, 03:18:38 PM » Quote Modify  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Looks good .  original detail ?That isnt the starter your using is it  

Report to moderator    68.44.86.48  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1969 R4 Daytona XX29L9B410772
1970 EV2 Superbird RM23UOA174597
1970 FY1 Superbird RM23UOA166242
1970 EV2 Superbird RM23VOA179697
1968 426 Road Runner RM21J8A134509
1970 Coronet RT WS23UOA224126
1970 Daytona Clone XP29GOG178701


hemigeno
Global Moderator
Old Timer

Offline

Posts: 4,428


'69 HemiCharger R/T 4-speed


    Re: **Updated pictures of my Daytona's restoration with November '08 PICS **
« Reply #836 on: December 26, 2008, 04:34:06 PM » Quote  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think the starter is just a functional one that Vance had laying around.  He mentioned that he still needed to send off the date-correct starter and alternator to be rebuilt.  

Even though the alternator looks new -- which it is --, it has some issues that need to be addressed in one of the case halves.  If you look closely at the stator (the round ring in the center that looks like a bunch of thin plates stacked together), there is a gap at the edge between the stator and one of the case halves.  The reason for this gap appears to be that this case half was not drilled/machined to receive the locating pins.  When the case was bolted together, this actually caused that case half to develop some very small hairline cracks at the bolt bosses from not being flush with the stator.  It's something that should go away if properly repaired, so it will be sent off with the starter.  They will disassemble the alternator case, do the necessary machining, clean everything up to show standards, and reassemble the unit.  A lot of "NOS" parts were in fact rejects from the supplier or assembly line bins, and this one was probably not used because of that unusual gap.  It's the right assembly number and has a useable date code, so it'll be installed no matter what.

[maxwellwedge]

The brake backing plates have been left bare, just wiped down with cosmoline.  You can see an example of front and back plates treated the way Vance intends to leave them.  I know, I know, there are lots of examples of cars with these having been given a black phosphate treatment, and there's nothing wrong with that.  Vance has access to a very low-mileage '69 RoadRunner just a few miles from his shop, and its backing plates have no traces of black on them, only a coating very similar to the cosmoline look.  One of the NOS parts suppliers brought some good used 1969-dated backing plates by Vance's shop, and a quick washdown revealed - you guessed it - bare, untreated metal.

As pitted up as my original backing plates were, it wouldn't surprise me at all if those were bare pieces as well - and I found no hint of black in the "before" pictures I have of the car.

Hey Geno - They were Zinc Phosphate, not black phosphate. Real (I say real because most platers don't do it properly because of environmental reasons) zinc phosphate is a very, very light gray..it has a hint of sparkle to it..oiling it makes it look a ton darker. I can honestly say I have never seen anything but Zinc Phos on backing plates and I think there was a "military" plating spec on it in engineering. It is plated to reduce friction and wear from the moving shoes. Just my 2 centavos.

I think your trans looks fine - the worst area looks like the tailshaft - I would probably put a nicer one on. I was bead-blasting then "Quick-Blacking" the case and tail, then putting on a light coat of MP50 - looked great. I have since found a shop that uses some kind of vibrating shot that makes the cases and brake drums look "As Cast".

I have found a couple of NOS steering boxes - want me to grab one for you?

The car is looking great!  

[nascarxx29]

I think this site had alot of charger nos parts
http://www.arizonaparts.com/allparts.htm

[69bronzeT5]

I think this site had alot of charger nos parts
http://www.arizonaparts.com/allparts.htm

A lot of those parts seem pretty cheap

[hemigeno]

Hey Geno - They were Zinc Phosphate, not black phosphate. Real (I say real because most platers don't do it properly because of environmental reasons) zinc phosphate is a very, very light gray..it has a hint of sparkle to it..oiling it makes it look a ton darker.

Jim, you'll have to excuse my poor memory and lack of expertise on plating/coating terminology.  I can ask again on the backing plates and whether the "bare" look that Vance remembers is actually a light grey zinc phosphate instead.  There might be reason for me to make a quick trip north in a week or so, and it might be possible to go take a peek at the other car he has used as a reference for some details like this.  More later.

I think your trans looks fine - the worst area looks like the tailshaft - I would probably put a nicer one on. I was bead-blasting then "Quick-Blacking" the case and tail, then putting on a light coat of MP50 - looked great. I have since found a shop that uses some kind of vibrating shot that makes the cases and brake drums look "As Cast".

I've also thought of dragging out the spare '69 A833 I have and taking the tailshaft and cover plate off of it just as you mentioned, and that may yet happen.  Vance only did what I asked him to do, and he can't fix what exposure to the elements has ruined.

I have found a couple of NOS steering boxes - want me to grab one for you?

The car is looking great!  

Thanks Jim!  As for the steering box, I'll send you a PM later.

[66FBCharger]

Geno,
I am looking for the details on the driveshaft resto. Frankly, with the amount of pages, I have not been able to find it.
What was the stuff you use to remove the rust? Where do you buy it?
The resto looks great! Thanks for posting all the photos and info. I am learning a lot.
John