hemigeno's Daytona restoration with Jan '10 pics (dial-up beware)

[hemigeno]

Here are some comparison photos of two original Dana axle plugs.  The reddish one is a vintage '69 piece, although the edges have been worn down a bit.  The other is from a '70 E-body.  So far, no one knows a whole lot about what "should" be used on what application.  Vance is planning to detail that hole the way it should be, but I'm not sure if he intends to use the vintage or reproduction red plug.  The search goes on for a nicer original for sure, and that's a 10 second thing to change out if one is eventually found.

[hemigeno]

I didn't remember if I had ever posted pictures of the Lower Control Arm date codes.  The year of manufacture is indicated by the first digit on the upper stud head stamping, in this case a "9" for 1969.  The day of the year these were manufactured is always indicated on the lower stud head stamping - "133" and "137" for this pair, which decodes to May 13th and May 17th.

I have forgotten what the second and third digits mean on the upper head stamping, although one of them indicates which shift it was assembled on.  The other might mean which production line, but I don't recall which is which.  Vance found documents many years ago which explained what the numbers meant and I think he gave me a copy, but I have no clue where it's at right now. 

[hemigeno]

One of the parts that hasn't been refurbished or installed yet is a correct starter.  These pictures show that the barrel is dated the 20th week of '69 (May 11-17) which should be when it was assembled, and we think the nosepiece was cast in the third or fourth week of April (depending on how much imagination you use in counting the dots!!).

This should be rebuilt, cleaned up, detailed and installed pretty soon.

[hemigeno]

To wrap up this batch of pictures, I took a few which show the motor mount attachment bolts and the steering gearbox attament bolts.  The last one also shows engine paint overspray on the spark plugs, just as it should be.

That's all I have for now.  

[69_500]

Gene, went through the photo's again and tried to post some of the same area's to show differences in lighting and camera's. Cropped the image to show that the overspray isn't so thick in area's, and I shrunk down the photo of the date on the starter to only show the date so you can try to decipher if you want.

[tan top]

  more awesome pictures      wow Geno      

[maxwellwedge]

Gene, went through the photo's again and tried to post some of the same area's to show differences in lighting and camera's. Cropped the image to show that the overspray isn't so thick in area's, and I shrunk down the photo of the date on the starter to only show the date so you can try to decipher if you want.

Hey Danny - That is the wrong starter..... the pics above of the un-restored one has the correct casting number for a 69 car. We will give you a free pass on that one. 

[69_500]

Gene, went through the photo's again and tried to post some of the same area's to show differences in lighting and camera's. Cropped the image to show that the overspray isn't so thick in area's, and I shrunk down the photo of the date on the starter to only show the date so you can try to decipher if you want.

Hey Danny - That is the wrong starter..... the pics above of the un-restored one has the correct casting number for a 69 car. We will give you a free pass on that one. 

No pass needed feel free to go ahead and      me. Back to the photo folder then for the correct starter and see if I can crop that photo. I like staring at pictures of nuts and bolts and date stamps but for some reason my wife is giving me weird looks and rolling her eyes as I keep telling her "Just 1 more minute and I'll be off of the computer".

[maxwellwedge]

Oh Yeah - I know those looks....... 

[nascarxx29]

Refering to the starter this from page 42 I knew I remembered reading something about a starter earlier on

 Re: **Updated pictures of my Daytona's restoration with November '08 PICS **
« Reply #835 on: December 26, 2008, 03:18:38 PM » Quote Modify  

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Looks good .  original detail ?That isnt the starter your using is it  
 
 Report to moderator    68.44.86.48  

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1969 R4 Daytona XX29L9B410772
1970 EV2 Superbird RM23UOA174597
1970 FY1 Superbird RM23UOA166242
1970 EV2 Superbird RM23VOA179697
1968 426 Road Runner RM21J8A134509
1970 Coronet RT WS23UOA224126
1970 Daytona Clone XP29GOG178701
 
 
hemigeno
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'69 HemiCharger R/T 4-speed


     Re: **Updated pictures of my Daytona's restoration with November '08 PICS **
« Reply #836 on: December 26, 2008, 04:34:06 PM » Quote  

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I think the starter is just a functional one that Vance had laying around.  He mentioned that he still needed to send off the date-correct starter and alternator to be rebuilt.  

Even though the alternator looks new -- which it is --, it has some issues that need to be addressed in one of the case halves.  If you look closely at the stator (the round ring in the center that looks like a bunch of thin plates stacked together), there is a gap at the edge between the stator and one of the case halves.  The reason for this gap appears to be that this case half was not drilled/machined to receive the locating pins.  When the case was bolted together, this actually caused that case half to develop some very small hairline cracks at the bolt bosses from not being flush with the stator.  It's something that should go away if properly repaired, so it will be sent off with the starter.  They will disassemble the alternator case, do the necessary machining, clean everything up to show standards, and reassemble the unit.  A lot of "NOS" parts were in fact rejects from the supplier or assembly line bins, and this one was probably not used because of that unusual gap.  It's the right assembly number and has a useable date code, so it'll be installed no matter what.
 
 
 

[maxwellwedge]

The brake backing plates have been left bare, just wiped down with cosmoline.  You can see an example of front and back plates treated the way Vance intends to leave them.  I know, I know, there are lots of examples of cars with these having been given a black phosphate treatment, and there's nothing wrong with that.  Vance has access to a very low-mileage '69 RoadRunner just a few miles from his shop, and its backing plates have no traces of black on them, only a coating very similar to the cosmoline look.  One of the NOS parts suppliers brought some good used 1969-dated backing plates by Vance's shop, and a quick washdown revealed - you guessed it - bare, untreated metal.

As pitted up as my original backing plates were, it wouldn't surprise me at all if those were bare pieces as well - and I found no hint of black in the "before" pictures I have of the car.

Hey Geno - They were Zinc Phosphate, not black phosphate. Real (I say real because most platers don't do it properly because of environmental reasons) zinc phosphate is a very, very light gray..it has a hint of sparkle to it..oiling it makes it look a ton darker. I can honestly say I have never seen anything but Zinc Phos on backing plates and I think there was a "military" plating spec on it in engineering. It is plated to reduce friction and wear from the moving shoes. Just my 2 centavos.

I think your trans looks fine - the worst area looks like the tailshaft - I would probably put a nicer one on. I was bead-blasting then "Quick-Blacking" the case and tail, then putting on a light coat of MP50 - looked great. I have since found a shop that uses some kind of vibrating shot that makes the cases and brake drums look "As Cast".

I have found a couple of NOS steering boxes - want me to grab one for you?

The car is looking great!  

[nascarxx29]

I think this site had alot of charger nos parts
http://www.arizonaparts.com/allparts.htm

[69bronzeT5]

I think this site had alot of charger nos parts
http://www.arizonaparts.com/allparts.htm

A lot of those parts seem pretty cheap

[hemigeno]

Hey Geno - They were Zinc Phosphate, not black phosphate. Real (I say real because most platers don't do it properly because of environmental reasons) zinc phosphate is a very, very light gray..it has a hint of sparkle to it..oiling it makes it look a ton darker.

Jim, you'll have to excuse my poor memory and lack of expertise on plating/coating terminology.  I can ask again on the backing plates and whether the "bare" look that Vance remembers is actually a light grey zinc phosphate instead.  There might be reason for me to make a quick trip north in a week or so, and it might be possible to go take a peek at the other car he has used as a reference for some details like this.  More later.

I think your trans looks fine - the worst area looks like the tailshaft - I would probably put a nicer one on. I was bead-blasting then "Quick-Blacking" the case and tail, then putting on a light coat of MP50 - looked great. I have since found a shop that uses some kind of vibrating shot that makes the cases and brake drums look "As Cast".

I've also thought of dragging out the spare '69 A833 I have and taking the tailshaft and cover plate off of it just as you mentioned, and that may yet happen.  Vance only did what I asked him to do, and he can't fix what exposure to the elements has ruined.

I have found a couple of NOS steering boxes - want me to grab one for you?

The car is looking great!  

Thanks Jim!  As for the steering box, I'll send you a PM later.

 

[66FBCharger]

Geno,
I am looking for the details on the driveshaft resto. Frankly, with the amount of pages, I have not been able to find it.
What was the stuff you use to remove the rust? Where do you buy it?
The resto looks great! Thanks for posting all the photos and info. I am learning a lot.
John

[hemigeno]

John,

The driveshaft now on the car is/was an NOS piece and had very little rust -- even surface rust -- which made cleanup a snap.  The ORIGINAL driveshaft was a different story... Lots-O-Rust, and trying to refurbish it did not fit the way we've done the rest of the car.

Here's what I can pass along about driveshaft restoration in general:

One of the best products I've come across for rust removal is a product called Evapo-Rust.  You can find product information from the manufacturer in this link, and I purchased the concentrated product (cheaper shipping that way, of course!) from this company. 

Taking rust off the driveshaft is one step... however, that usually leaves a fairly pitted-up driveshaft tube since most of us live in semi- to very-humid climates and driveshafts were not plated with phosphate, cadmium, etc.  A really good way to remove the rust from a driveshaft is to buy a 6'-8' length of 6" PVC pipe, one end cap, and a 6" cleanout cap (with the removable screw-on cap).  Cut the 6" PVC to the length you'd like and glue the end cap and cleanout cap's base to the pipe.  When you put the driveshaft in the PVC pipe, you'll have to find a way to wire the driveshaft "down" when the whole thing is standing vertical, as the hollow driveshaft will become buoyant.  Fill the PVC tube with Evapo-Rust, screw the cap on, stand it up in the corner of the shop and let it soak for a couple of days.  You'll be amazed at what that stuff can do, although for a really pitted part it may require a light brush scrub and a few more days of soak time.

Unless your tube happens to be in phenomenal shape, chances are you'll have a choice to make at that point.  Either fill in the tube's pitting and paint with your favorite product to mimic a bare steel look, or - if the tube only has light pitting - polish it to the point the pitting is removed.  The latter option won't work if the tube is heavily pitted, as the wall thickness of the tube isn't much to begin with.  Thin up the walls too much and put a hot RB engine in front, and you'll have a twisted tube really quickly.

Anyway, if you're not the do-it-yourselfer type or are looking for a concours-level finished product, one name I've heard mentioned over and over by other people as doing an excellent job refurbishing driveshafts is a guy by the name of Pete Bloathner (from Rescue, California I believe).  Pete slowly polishes the tube until the pits are gone (this unfortunately almost always removes any remnants of the part number stamping), and replicates all the original bluing and weld marks on the longitudinal part of the tube and end welds where the yokes are affixed.  I know other people have really accurate reproduction weld weights (one example is http://www.deadnutson.com ), so I'm sure a driveshaft could be checked for proper balance and adjusted if necessary.

Glad you're enjoying - and benefitting - from the thread, as that makes the time and effort to type all this stuff up a lot more worthwhile.

 

[gtx6970]

1st. I say leave the trans case as is. IMO when you have it judged you'll take less of a points hit as is - versus painted

2nd. to those taking notes. with exception to Daytonas ( maybe birds ) No other car will have the rear inner fender splash shields will have any signs of body color on them

[66FBCharger]

John,

The driveshaft now on the car is/was an NOS piece and had very little rust -- even surface rust -- which made cleanup a snap.  The ORIGINAL driveshaft was a different story... Lots-O-Rust, and trying to refurbish it did not fit the way we've done the rest of the car.

Here's what I can pass along about driveshaft restoration in general:

One of the best products I've come across for rust removal is a product called Evapo-Rust.  You can find product information from the manufacturer in this link, and I purchased the concentrated product (cheaper shipping that way, of course!) from this company. 

Taking rust off the driveshaft is one step... however, that usually leaves a fairly pitted-up driveshaft tube since most of us live in semi- to very-humid climates and driveshafts were not plated with phosphate, cadmium, etc.  A really good way to remove the rust from a driveshaft is to buy a 6'-8' length of 6" PVC pipe, one end cap, and a 6" cleanout cap (with the removable screw-on cap).  Cut the 6" PVC to the length you'd like and glue the end cap and cleanout cap's base to the pipe.  When you put the driveshaft in the PVC pipe, you'll have to find a way to wire the driveshaft "down" when the whole thing is standing vertical, as the hollow driveshaft will become buoyant.  Fill the PVC tube with Evapo-Rust, screw the cap on, stand it up in the corner of the shop and let it soak for a couple of days.  You'll be amazed at what that stuff can do, although for a really pitted part it may require a light brush scrub and a few more days of soak time.

Unless your tube happens to be in phenomenal shape, chances are you'll have a choice to make at that point.  Either fill in the tube's pitting and paint with your favorite product to mimic a bare steel look, or - if the tube only has light pitting - polish it to the point the pitting is removed.  The latter option won't work if the tube is heavily pitted, as the wall thickness of the tube isn't much to begin with.  Thin up the walls too much and put a hot RB engine in front, and you'll have a twisted tube really quickly.

Anyway, if you're not the do-it-yourselfer type or are looking for a concours-level finished product, one name I've heard mentioned over and over by other people as doing an excellent job refurbishing driveshafts is a guy by the name of Pete Bloathner (from Rescue, California I believe).  Pete slowly polishes the tube until the pits are gone (this unfortunately almost always removes any remnants of the part number stamping), and replicates all the original bluing and weld marks on the longitudinal part of the tube and end welds where the yokes are affixed.  I know other people have really accurate reproduction weld weights (one example is http://www.deadnutson.com ), so I'm sure a driveshaft could be checked for proper balance and adjusted if necessary.

Glad you're enjoying - and benefitting - from the thread, as that makes the time and effort to type all this stuff up a lot more worthwhile.

 

Geno,
This stuff sounds great! Thanks for the info.
I am planning to use a lot of the ideas/techniques you and Vance are using to complete my concours resto on my 440+6 '70 RR.
I have used MP 50. It works really well for protecting bare parts from rusting. It is available through Mopar dealers.
I love the way you are restoring the Daytona. Great Job!
John

[maxwellwedge]

Check your dealer again for MP50 - I heard it is on the endangered species list and is now toast.  

I bought a case of 12 about a year or so ago so I should be ok for a little while.

[nascarxx29]

MP50 #  PN 4549626

http://www.atascosa.com/Partsstock.htm