hemigeno's Daytona restoration - a few more tweaks... again!

[hemi68charger]

Earlier this week, my wife stopped by with our two youngest boys to let them have a look at the Daytona.  It was her first opportunity to take a gander at the finished product also.  While they were there, I snapped a few photos.

Max looks like a natural behind the wheel, but he did NOT like being perched up on the wing.

Josh (the youngest), LOVED being up there.  He'll probably be the daredevil of the two, but Max will be his wheelman.

Awesome Geno !!!!!  Man; new Daytona, new kids and about my age...........

AB - I thought you were a little older?   

I feel like it. With my brain going 100% and 200 mph................ This 47 yr. old feel like 67... But, when I get behind the wheel of my Chargers, I feel like 27 again. (Granted, that's if I'm not doing any maintenance on any of them, then it's back to 67)

[hemi68charger]

What a dufus I am Geno? .I thought that was your place.

All I can say it WOW !!!!

I love European History and man, that place just melts with it.................

[69_500]

Gene the car looks stunning. I still can't wait to get to  over it in person one of these days. I saw it as pieces multiple times but now I wanna see it all together.

[hemigeno]

What a dufus I am Geno? .I thought that was your place.

I couldn't afford what it takes to cut the grass around that place for a week, much less everything else that goes with it.  

Lucky for my wife and I, our daughter has phenomenal grades and really good scholarships... plus, Harlaxton College is actually an extension of the University of Evansville (yes, the one in Indiana).  They own the whole casle/manor, and operate what amounts to a satellite campus location that caters exclusively to U.S. students.  Jessica is tagging along with a group of about 150 mostly UofE students for the semester, through a partner university arrangement with her "real" university at a pretty reasonable fee all things considered.  Otherwise, she'd be exploring the British Isles the same way my wife and I are  -- vicariously through others, reading good books, and watching Dr. Who  

But I digress...

I heard from the original owner of this Daytona just yesterday, and am hoping to get the car out to Kansas City sometime for a reunion with the first and second owners - who are still the only people (excluding a relative or two of theirs and maybe some mechanics) that have ever driven the car on the road.  The stories they told me about this car when I first talked with them, it's surprising this car wasn't wadded up years ago.  

[hemi68charger]

[

I heard from the original owner of this Daytona just yesterday, and am hoping to get the car out to Kansas City sometime for a reunion with the first and second owners - who are still the only people (excluding a relative or two of theirs and maybe some mechanics) that have ever driven the car on the road.  The stories they told me about this car when I first talked with them, it's surprising this car wasn't wadded up years ago.  

[Mopar John]

                                             ANYONE SEEN HEMIGENO?
We'll we have! Linda and I took a trip to Danville, Illinois a couple of weeks ago. I showed her were I used to live down there and where the A&P store was where I was a manager. We also went to Mike's drive-in just south of Danville in Georgetown where they have been serving hamburgers for the last 50 years!
  We then moved on to St. Louis and did some sight seeing! We went up in the arch and were the only ones there?
After some pre planning we were able to stop by and see hemigeno! We got to see his 1969 Chargers both very nice cars! One is a Hemi and the other is a Daytona! I really wanted to see the Daytona! The car is beautifull and loaded with detail that not many have now that they are 42 years old! Thanks for the visit and letting Linda and I see your collection! Attached is a picture of Gene and his Daytona back at home!
Mopar John

[hemi68charger]

                                            ...Attached is a picture of Gene and his Daytona back at home!
Mopar John

Awesome picture !!!!  Is he looking for his Daytona's safety latch hook? 

[69_500]

Gene I gotta make a trip over to your neck of the woods sometime. Its driving me crazy that I have not seen the car since you got it back.

[Mopar John]

                                             ...Attached is a picture of Gene and his Daytona back at home!
Mopar John

Awesome picture !!!!  Is he looking for his Daytona's safety latch hook? 

Troy,
I know you were trying to be funny on the safety latch hook but it's in the trunk with the front license plate parts. Some guys take them off so they don't chip the latch tray by accident!
MJ

[hemi68charger]

                                            ...Attached is a picture of Gene and his Daytona back at home!
Mopar John

Awesome picture !!!!  Is he looking for his Daytona's safety latch hook?  

Troy,
I know you were trying to be funny on the safety latch hook but it's in the trunk with the front license plate parts. Some guys take them off so they don't chip the latch tray by accident!
MJ

 And to think I chip the paint on the latch tray on purpose..........   Well.. not chipped.. just two thin lines where the hook rubs against it....

[gtx6970]

The last two photos depict some bolts on the firewall that were pointed out as incorrect.  Really sharp-eyed thread viewers will recall that the bolts in these two pictures differ from those shown earlier in photos from previous stages.  One of the resources I had given to Vance in preparation for Carlisle and the judging it was to receive was a Fastener's Guide.  While that is an interesting book, I was cautioned by a number of different people that it contained errors.  Not knowing which entries are correct and which contain errors, I gave it to Vance and suggested that he follow it unless it was a blatant error.  These electrical component bolts for the firewall are a classic example of where Vance followed that book rather than relying on his expertise.  Paul J. confirmed that 1969 cars from this period should have the style of bolt Vance took out in favor of what the Guide indicated was correct... it should be a similar bolt, but with one of a couple different head markings and a free-spinning but slightly serrated washer.  Apparently this style of bolt created a better ground for the components, and the style you see here is correct for 1968 and at least some years prior to then... just not on a late '69 car.  When I mentioned this topic to Vance, I was already braced for the "I told you so" look that was immediately sent my way.  Oh well.  We'll dig up the removed bolts (already plated) and put 'em back in

Agreed.
What I've been able to find( as a general not written in stone rule of thumb)  is 3/8" hex headed fixed washer  bolts are 1968 and prior - 7/16" hex headed captive washer bolts are 1969 and later ----- WITH exception to ----- the engine to  1969 firewall ground cable is attached with a 3/8" hex head on every original i've seen

[Davtona]

Gene I gotta make a trip over to your neck of the woods sometime. Its driving me crazy that I have not seen the car since you got it back.

  I'd head north from your place and not west Danny. Talked to Geno this afternoon and he was on his way back from Vance's where he had dropped off the Daytona this weekend. Only one car in the "Hemi House" in Missouri tonight.

[69_500]

Ah but I have only seen the car at Gene's place once in the time I have known him, and have seen it about 4-5 different times up at Vance's already. I wanted to see it at Gene's place. Then again I think that everytime I have seen it up at vance's place it has snowed either on the way up, or way back from there. Oh except for once and it was about an inch of freezing rain instead.

[hemigeno]

Yeah, Danny has a knack for attracting bad weather to western Michigan, I agree.  This weekend would have fit the bill for a visit from you as well, since prior to my arrival they haven't had any snow up there at all so far this year.  I arrived about 1:30am and the weather was fine, but woke to find 1" of snow had fallen -- and it was supposed to snow all day and into the night.  Figures.     Thankfully, both me and the Daytona arrived safely at Vance's a little after 10am.  It's there for what Vance called some "supertweaking".  I liked that term.

While I haven't posted much in the way of an update to this thread, the fall has been a busy time collecting info and feedback from a few folks who have a wealth of experience when it comes to the details of original Daytonas.  There are still a couple of other people I wouldn't mind to have look at it in person still, but at this point it hasn't proven practical.  Rather than wait around indefinitely for something that may never happen, I've delivered the car back into Vance's capable hands with a list of the feedback collected thus far.

On my list of things to do over Christmas break (from grad school) is to bring this thread up to date with the items that made the hit list.  

BTW, thanks again for stopping by the shop, John!  It was a pleasure meeting Linda and you, and I enjoyed our conversation immensely.  You've had a lot of the same experiences I've had along the restoration path, and I will most certainly find the time to stop by and check out both your blue (again   ) and red cars sometime this spring.  Ugly mug alert on that photo though!  

[hemigeno]

At long last, I'm finally getting around to somewhat of an update on this thread.  Since the last post, Vance has been going to town on the various items I identified after having several other folks lend their expertise and critical eye to the restoration effort.  I knew Vance was capable of fixing everything on the list, but my visit this past Saturday leads me to believe he's taking it several steps farther than what I expected to see.  Having the opportunity over the winter to examine each component has allowed him to fix things that we had here-to-fore assumed were alright.  You'll see what I mean as the update progresses.

In addition to the restoration upgrades Vance is making, I've also managed to scrounge a few new parts to upgrade the condition of several components as well.  Some I have on hand, some are still in the delivery process, and I hope to come across a few more items between now and this summer.  Anyway...

In this first pic, you can see that the interior is half stripped - and the instrument panel, etc. is gone.  That's been done for a couple of reasons. 

First, the glue-on insulation underneath the cowl airbox is being replaced with original stuff, rather than reproduction.  I had found a set of original insulation pieces, but discovered that by the time it arrived at Vance's, he had already installed the dash, etc.  At the time, it was not worth the effort to take everything apart for that one item.  With the remainder of my detailing list, now is the right time. 

Second, Vance had sprayed body color paint fairly high on the firewall (it should be bare metal up high on a '69 Hamtramck car), to mask the finishing work they had done on the metal.  You might or might not remember that the car's firewall was pretty crispy from the 1977 engine fire, which made Vance's job exponentially more difficult.  We're dropping back and working the firewall over in sections now, with the plan to leave the metal bare once it's all been reworked.  In the meantime, Vance uses primer to keep flash rust at bay until it can all be treated with RPM.  There is a LOT of detail work to be done here that neither of us had focused on before... such as correct plating of the studs and weld nuts, spot-weld treatments, seam sealers, etc.  Plenty of detail items will be visible in the finished product, and this is nowhere near complete.  It is taking up a lot of time right now with all the hand sanding and detailing - but the finished product will be worth it for sure.

Third, the instrument panel has been entrusted to the capable hands of Mike Mancini and Instrument Specialties.  Mike will reface the gauges using the original silkscreen method, rather than decals.  While I'm not so uppity to refuse the more traditional decal restoration method (my R/T proudly displays such a set of gauges), the Daytona needed to have that detail corrected.  Afterwards, the gauges will fit the rest of the car's level of correctness.

Finally, several of the under-dash components are getting a thorough makeover.  You'll see in a bit some of the details now exhibited on the brake & clutch pedal assembly that weren't present before.  This is a perfect example of Vance seizing the opportunity while fixing one thing, to vastly improve (strange as that may seem with what's been done to this point) many others while we're at it.

[hemigeno]

These three photos show the Dana axle assembly.  One of the items noted by multiple people was that the black used on the car's chassis components was "too glossy".  If you ask 10 restoration guys what the correct level of gloss is, you're apt to get 10 subtly-different opinions in return.  Conventional wisdom is that a slightly-flattened gloss black is correct, but it's somewhat of a crapshoot as to whether the observer will agree that what they see does or does not meet their personal opinion of what the level of gloss/sheen should be.  Chrysler didn't use semi-gloss paint or chassis black like GM, they simply used crappy paint which didn't weather very well.  Depending on the age and storage condition of a car, what plant it was made at, what model/year, and what paint happened to be in the gun the day the line worker dipped or sprayed the components, there can be variations even on survivor cars.  We've acquiesed to the masses' opinon, and have or will be repainting all the black components on the car.

[hemigeno]

In line with the last post's topic, I took a bunch of photos of two K-frames at Vance's shop.  While addressing the paint gloss issue, Vance got to thinking about the condition of my original K-frame.  The oft-mentioned engine fire had a couple of effects on the car... one was it burned off the grease and oil which often builds up on engine components and those mounted nearby (e.g. the K-frame).  After that unintended protective layer was removed, the exposed metal tends to rust... quickly and rather thoroughly.

Initially, the original K-frame was saved by body work to remove the rather nasty-looking pock marks and pitting.  The all-important date code was preserved, but most of the other fine details were lost as the rough surface was, by necessity, smoothed.

After looking my original over with a critical eye, Vance set out to find a suitable, more preserved specimin to install in its place if at all possible.  What you'll see in the next several slides is a really, really nice K-frame that Vance managed to conjure up (I don't ask him where he finds some of these things, as he probably wouldn't tell me anyway).  The date code matches the original, confirmed by all the right traits of a late '69 K-frame ('69 top half and '70 bottom half).  Even the engine mount brackets had a mid '69 date code, although I had never seen those dates before (never had a K-frame in that condition before).

Anyway, the first several pictures are of my original K-member, showing how smooth everything is. 

[hemigeno]

The next several photos are of the replacement K-member.  You can clearly see the striation marks from when the top half was pressed into shape by a whole lot of force.  These are the kinds of details that were lost on the original.

[hemigeno]

More detail shots of the ends... '70 K-frames have holes here.  Note the weld splatter and rough texture of the welds.  This kind of character is what makes this a much better piece - and since it's dated the same, there is no way to say which one was installed in which car.

In the last two shots, you can see the date codes stamped into the engine mount brackets.  I had never seen these before.

[hemigeno]

In the first shot, you can see a trait of late '69 K-members... since the top and bottom components were mis-matched ('69 top, '70 bottom) and 1970 model cars did not use a sway bar mounted to the K-member, the bottom half had to have a hole drilled for the sway bar mounting.  This hole was drilled prior to assembly of the K-frame, as you can see it is a larger diameter than the "correct" hole in the 1969 top plate. 

The last shot just shows more of the witness marks from the stamping process.  Details, details...

[hemigeno]

Moving on from the K-frame, the transmission crossmember is set to be replaced as well, for the same reasons.  Vance hadn't found one yet, but he wasn't thinking it would be too much trouble.  Thankfully, those are neither date coded nor as differentiated as K-members.

We're swapping out the headlamp seats currently in the car for the weird-finished (galvanized) ones in the second pic.  I bought a set of 4 headlamp assemblies a while back, mostly because you can't have too many of the original wide-rib GE lamps on hand.  As it turns out, the seats were probably a nicer score than the sealed beam units.

Another change is that the H-pipe has been stripped of the clear paint previously applied.  Thankfully, the stripping process left all the distinguishing marks on the tubing itself, as well as the discolorations you'd see on bare steel.  This has been treated with RPM, which allows it to look absolutely bare while being protected from rust.  Dave Walden gave me the idea, as he treated the exhaust systems of his personal collection and reported that it has held up well despite what you might initially think.

[hemigeno]

One of the things I spent a good deal of time oogling (and photographing) was sort-of an afterthought to look at.  Vance and I were in the process of stowing the battery away safely, and he just mentioned that I ought to look at the brake & clutch assembly.  He had good reason to point it out, as that's something I hadn't paid too much attention to before.  After looking at what's there now and comparing it to the original parts, the details are rather apparent.  Yet another example of an unplanned upgrade along the way...

Vance had a REALLY mint wire harness retainer as seen in the third photo, that still had its original black plasticote and galvanized(?) finish.  My original that was on the car until recently, had neither.  Also, you'll see many examples in the next several posts showing stamping and/or witness marks from the original stamping process.  While these components are not exposed to the weather, the bare metal does tend to pit up a decent amount simply from humidity in the air (much less trapped moisture in the passenger's compartment from a weathertightness problem).

[hemigeno]

More detail shots... note the spot weld marks, and weldnuts

[hemigeno]

What else would you expect from me, but more detail shots... 

In the last two photos, I tried to show a bit of detail from the manufacturing process, where the assembly is partially dipped into a tank of black paint to coat the pedal arms themselves.  In the last photo, you can see an original, untouched 1967 pedal assembly exhibiting the same traits.  Vance hung my pedals  and let them dangle to establish the paint line similar to that original set.  For those who want to get really particular, some pedal assemblies were indeed sprayed rather than dipped.  Vance showed me another original/untouched set of pedals that he wanted to hang onto forever, because it was very clearly sprayed rather than dipped.  I forgot to take a photo of that set, but I did look it over myself.  My originals were almost certainly dipped (that was the most common method), so that's what we went back with.

[hemigeno]

If you haven't had enough already, here's a couple more closeups...