Electronic ignition and ways to improve them

[Kern Dog]

Like many of you, I converted my car from a points ignition system to electronic when I did a 318 to 44 swap in 2001.



I went with the Mopar Performance kit sold through Summit Racing. It came with the distributor, the ballast resistor, an orange box ECM and the wiring. It worked but over the years, I've read Rick Ehrenberg from Mopar Action magazine criticize the distributors that were made for these kits from around 2000 to 2014. He said that they were Accel brand based on the GM HEI units scaled down to fit inside a Mopar style housing. These use light advance weights and light springs. His contention was that the small weights and springs led to unstable timing since the guts didn't have enough mass to them. He was right...I can look at the timing light and see the mark jump around a bit, even with a new build and fresh timing chain. This condition leads to spark scatter and reduced power.
Last Summer I was on FBBO and a member had a distributor kit for sale. He was going to build a 440 but decided to go with a 5.7 based 3G Hemi. This kit was originally sold by Rick Ehrenberg through his bay store, he named it the HiRev 7500. It is like the Mopar Performance kits of before but with supposedly better components. I bought the kit and put it on the shelf to mess with later.
For 22+ years, I've had the occasional no spark issue where I go to start the car and it has no spark at all. This is always random. It can happen on a first start after sitting, it can happen on a 3rd or 5th start of the day. Cold, warm, hot engine or weather. Many times, I start replacing parts until it starts. Sometimes I just walk away and come back later and it starts as if nothing was ever at fault. It doesn't happen that often so I haven't made a point to dig in and stop it until now.
The wiring is actually quite simple.

[Kern Dog]

What is odd is that I've had the no spark and replaced say a coil or the ECM, then tested those parts on another car and it ran fine.
Okay...so maybe a bad connection existed and changing the parts resulted in a fresh connection that worked?
Maybe. Maybe not though.
What if something else changed?
I took the firewall bulkhead plugs off and cleaned the terminals, then packed them with dielectric grease and stuffed them back in.
The last no spark happened about 2-3 weeks ago. At that point, I cleaned the terminals, checked all connections everywhere and it has started and ran fine since then.
It is fixed then, right?
Maybe, maybe not.
It has always been random as far as I can tell. I've gone 6 months or more between instances of this problem. I get to where I forget that this problem is lurking, then it returns. It has even happened when I shut the engine down during cam break in to fix a leak somewhere. Yeah....the very time you absolutely need it to start fast and run and it just wanted to crank and crank.
For me, an intermittent issue is extremely difficult to diagnose. I'm lucky that I have a LOT of coils, ECMs, ballast resistors and distributors to swap in.

Only a few times has the car been running fine (sometimes even being driven) and then suddenly stall and refuse to restart.
A couple of times, I've sprayed ether in the carburetor and it has started up. This was after I already confirmed that it was getting fuel.
Sometimes when it starts after me changing something, I suspect that it might have started anyway regardless of what I did, as if it just decided it would now go ahead and work like it should.

[marshallfry01]

I recently bought an electronic ignition kit for my 383. Haven't put it on yet. It looks identical to yours though. Orange box, resistor, same style distributor. I'll follow along to see if there's anything I can do to make it more reliable. I've heard the orange boxes can leave you stranded.

On another note, how are you running that high rise intake and that tall air cleaner without hitting your hood? I have that same intake on my 383 with a Holley 750 and I'm afraid I'll have clearance issues with my stock hood. Do you have a drop base for the air cleaner?

[Kern Dog]

The intake is an Edelbrock Performer RPM. I do have a custom dropped base for the air cleaner. I had a shop make it in 2001. I've since learned to weld better and can make another if needed.
I have the same type intake in my 383 Charger and it clears with the standard type air cleaner....



 

[Kern Dog]

This Mopar Performance electronic distributor has an adjustable base to allow for a range of advance. You need these gauges to slide in the slots to get the amount that you need.



At this angle, you can see as the number increases, they get thicker.

 

The kit came with springs.



It is set to the 14 degree number but here is the curve it has. I plotted this today.



Notice how starts with the 20 degrees initial at a 1000 rpm idle and barely moves until 1750.
Then it tops out at 33 degrees at a very late 3000 rpms. 

[Kern Dog]

That Mopar Performance distributor was "tuned" to delay the advance. This was done over 10 years ago when the engine had a stubborn detonation problem. I tried all sorts of Band-Aids to stop the knocking. I forgot how late the advance came in!
Next up is another electronic distributor, this one sold by Rick Ehrenberg. (Mopar Action magazine) It is sold through his ebay store and called the Hi-Rev 7500.
I installed it as it was made with no modifications. Here is the curve I recorded with it.



Note how it immediately starts advancing right from idle. It is almost a steady climb until 2750 rpms where it jumps 6 degrees, then another 6 by 3000 rpms. Holy crap...50 degrees of advance??? 

[Kern Dog]

Next is that Hi-Rev with the FBO limiter plate installed. The FBO plate looks like this:





I have the plate installed at the 14 degree mark. Here are the numbers I found with it in place:



It actually allowed 15 degrees but that is fine. Notice how it still starts gaining advance right from idle but then levels off by 2500 rpms.   

[Kern Dog]

It idles better. It revs quicker and smoother. It does seem to like the added advance from idle and up.
I drove it and it seems to just rev easier and smoother than before. ZERO detonation despite more advance and and earlier advance. MORE power? Maybe....The tires just spin!

[Kern Dog]

Here is another observation:
When the engine is cold, it also runs better and seems to warm up faster. I am guessing this is because before at a fast idle around 1750 or so, it was still running with only 20-21 degrees of advance while now, it has about 31. Engines aren't running clean and efficient when they are cold and trying to warm up so that is why they need more fuel and I'm guessing, more spark advance. The engine doesn't feel choppy or want to hesitate when cold like before.
Score!

[armor64]

interesting about the faster warm up, i guess because the "fire" starts earlier in the cycle, there is more time for the fire to heat the cylinder walls before the magic happens. Is there any difference in the running temps? Does it look like it running hotter after thermostat opens / stable temp?

[Kern Dog]

It seems fine.
This car has always run a decent temperature. The only time I've ever run hot is during camshaft break-in in the summer since I've forgotten to put an auxiliary fan out front.

[Kern Dog]

This Hi Rev distributor performed flawlessly on the approx 1000 mile round trip to Southern CA and back.
Easy starting, smooth running, no misfires, always had spark.
Better cold idle, better low speed performance.
SCORE !