AUTO SALESMEN: Sis bought a Mag Wagon & got reamed...how does she get out of it?

[ChargerBill]

I need some advice on how to help my sister and brother-in-law get out of an impulse buy they made on Sunday. First off, they didn't research ANYTHING (which really has always pi$$ed me off about them). Secondly, they drove up to the dealership with their trade-in vehicle (a 2001 Chrysler 300) that they still owed $7K on. They sales guy said he would cut them a GREAT deal on this 5.7Hemi Magnum...$29,000 out the door. The dealership only gave them $11,000 on the 300 (and used 300's in excellent shape with only 40K miles are going for 14K to 18K right now) and they also made them negative finance the $7K they still owed. PLUS, what they thought was 6% financing ended up 10.4% financing! $660/month for 7 years...! They got screwed and need to plead stupidity and ask them to reverse the deal and get their trade-in back. Any way to ENCOURAGE the dealership to do so? Lawyer? Bad press? They want to be civil, but in retrospect feel like they were taken advantage of big time...and I tend to agree considering how hard of a time they are having selling Magnum Wagons right now... Anyone have any advice?

Does this sound like a GREAT deal to anyone?

[Ponch ®]

Isnt there like a 3 day rule where you can take the car back? Im not sure and I could be talking out of my ass, but see if you can look it up.

[andy74]

Bill, pm me if you need some help

dependant on where you live and the circumstance of the deals,the dealer is probably not obligated to void the contract,or take the car back.if they took delivery of the vehicle,ignorance of the figures will not stand up in court,but a written work sheet/purchase order showing that the deal was contingent on the rate,terms or trade will.

now, if they are reputable,which i am going to lean towards they are not,they will void the contract and let bygones be bygones.a well placed call to a local tv station and newspaper would work too.

like i said,with out seeing the contract and the whole deal i cant answer for 100% but i hope this helps,if not the answer you are looking for-Andy

[andy74]

federal law is that there is no 3 day right of recsion,unless you buy the car off the dealers property,such as a tent sale,off site or the customers house

[ChargerBill]

Thanks Andy, I'll keep you posted...

Mojo, yes, there used to be a 3 day cooling off period, but guess who lobbied to remove that consumer safegaurd? yep, it no longer exists

[andy74]

Bill, if you want to call me ,the office number is 315-487-6211,ask for andy bourque(burk)im here until 8 pm on tuesday,wednesday and 6 pm on thurs and friday

[MichaelRW]

Maybe I missed something but if they got $11,000 for the trade in and owed $7,000 why would they have to negative finance anything. That should have left $4,000 to the good towards the cost of the new car. If the new car cost $29,000, did they finance $25,000?

$660 per month for 84 months is $55,440. That's almost as much interest as the car cost. Dang! Something sounds really fishy. Call your state's department of consumer affairs (if your state has such a thing). If memory serves me right, you live in California. If so, they should be able to give you advice if there is any recourse available.

[Telvis]

Dear God!!! 

[Shakey]

.....I could be talking out of my ass.....

Please don't Ponch! 

[andy74]

those figures dont add up-i just ran a payment on a 29000 bottom line,less 11000 trade,plus 7000 payoff,and even if the rate is 10.8 for 72 months,the payments are in the 460-465 range- a 29,000 sell price plus tax etc is still only 510,if they got 7000 for the car,and owed 11000-that is where the payment comes close to what they have,thats like 12800 in interest alone.

like i said, let me know if i can help-Andy

[last426]

Thanks Andy, I'll keep you posted...

Mojo, yes, there used to be a 3 day cooling off period, but guess who lobbied to remove that consumer safegaurd? yep, it no longer exists

There was never a cooling off period on a car bought at a lot. Frankly, legally a deal is a deal.  The best recourse is some negotiation to bring the car back along with a bundle of bucks.  Good luck -- sometimes those salesmen are really good and earn their commission.  Oh, if a lawyer tells you he can do something, run Forest, run (or ask me and I will tell you if it is legit).  Kim

[694spdRT]

Wow! I realize trade in values are in the tank now but, that is really bad. Doubt there is much to be done about it if everything was disclosed properly though.

Unless that Magnum is a completely loaded AWD 2006 model they probably could have just bought it outright for $29,000 or less and kept the other car. I considered buying a 2005 AWD Hemi Magnum with an MSRP of $41,000 that had 5,000 miles on it a couple months ago.  With my 2001 Mercury Sable trade it would have been $22,900 to boot. I passed on the deal and your sister's 300M should be worth more than my Sable anyday. 

This reminds me of a 30 year old co-worker that never realized there were negotiations in car buying...she thought it was like going to the store and you pay what the price on the sticker was.

It happens all the time though...the 2005 Ram diesel I just got was traded back in on a Stratus because the guy could not afford it anymore. Bad for him but, good for me because he lost a ton on it and I got the benefit.

[BigBlackDodge]

People normally go with the 7 years to have lower payments................I can't imagine what a 60 month payment plan would be on that thing?


BBD

[Silver R/T]

hope they get their 300C back

[69charger2002]

hahaha, there is no way your sister's husband could have been dumb enough to be taken THAT BAD.. even after being tricked into being "upside down", add warranty upgrades, paying sticker price for new car etc. there is NO WAY when they came back in after all that and said   $660 for 84 months that he could have agreed.. if so, i'd love to meet him.. that is absolutely insane.. for 60 months that would be an almost $1000/month note.. you don't see that often with or without a trade.. he could have bought a SRT-10 ram for that straight out for that kind of note
some people have no sense of finances
trav

[ChargerBill]

OK, here's the deal...My sister explained the trade-in wrong to me. What actually happened is that they owed $18,000 on the 300M and the dealer only gve them $11,000 for it, leaving a $7,000 finance debt from the 300M. The dealer added the $7,000 debt to the $29,000 purchase price and it came to 10.4% for 7 years, or $660 per month.

UPDATE: As of tonight they went in and the dealer without even complaining or balking about it knocked $4,000 off the purchase price which brought their total payments down to $565/month for 7 years. That ought to be a good indication of how MUCh they padded this sale. Also, I called into the dealer at about 5:00 tonight and asked if they ahd any used Intrepids or 300's on the lot. The SAME salesman said he had a 2003 (I thought it was a 2002) 300M with 42,000 miles on it for $16,500. So, they also are trying to make $5,500 on a used car that was in "marginal" shape when my sister turned it in. I'll tell you, these car salesmen are a shady bunch. Not ALL of them, but man there sure are some @$$holes out there.

So, $565 for 84 months is STILL $47,460 for a car that they NOW say they sold for $25,000. And no, they DIDN'T reduce the 10.4% rate, and my sister has excellent credit... What's up with that? Are they making a profit off the extra percentage points?

[ChargerBill]

hahaha, there is no way your sister's husband could have been dumb enough to be taken THAT BAD.. even after being tricked into being "upside down", add warranty upgrades, paying sticker price for new car etc. there is NO WAY when they came back in after all that and said   $660 for 84 months that he could have agreed.. if so, i'd love to meet him.. that is absolutely insane.. for 60 months that would be an almost $1000/month note.. you don't see that often with or without a trade.. he could have bought a SRT-10 ram for that straight out for that kind of note
some people have no sense of finances
trav

I agree...I'm somewhat shocked myself. Of course, i won't rub it in, but he already knows that I'm pretty pissed that they didn't come to me first. Not only do I know the owner of the local Dodge dealership AND the owner of another dealership in town who brokers Dodge sales, but they also know that I've never paid mre than $700 over MSRP for ANY car I've owned. AND, they know that I'm into Dodges and could have given them some advice on options and pricing... For my brother-in-law to let this happen shows a complete inability to mange his household, and my sister. (and believe me, she needs managing)

[TK73]

I can't stand dealing with car salesmen. You guys know the general opinion...

HOWEVER: "caveat ēmptor"

[Spartan]

allot of the sales tactics come from the type of dealership it is.   I have never bought from a high pressure or large dealership, IMO they are more interested in moving what is on their lot then selling you what you want.   I   have also gotten low-balled bad on trade ins.   They seem to test the waters to see if you know what you are doing and put the screws to you if you don't (like when my wife goes out looking on her own).   My impression is they go for the quick kill and not a repeat customer.   I have usually bought from smaller dealerships that are intersted in repeat and service business and really try to work with you and are upfront about everything.   I had one guy refer me to a buddy on a used car lot to sell my Sebring because they they could not offer me enough on a trade in.   The buddy got me 2k more for the car and the dealer got the sale, we all won.

My wife is impulsive like your sister too Bill,   I'm just lucky I am the bread-winner and she needs me to sign for it.

[andy74]

hey guys, we arent all like that! yes there are a lot of shady bastards in th ecar buiss,but not all of us.i work for a small store,3 sales man,me,and the owner and his uncle(retireing salesmanager)if i had some one who worked for me try and screw someone like that i would have fired him.yes,i am here to make a profit,but i dont see the need to make 5-7 thousand on a customer,be it front end or f and i. as for the trade value,yes wholesale values are in the shitter,i am buying 05 grand caravans,stow and go sxt that stickered for 28 grand for about 14 at the auction,and selling them for 16.after inspection,lube oil filter and detail we net 1200-1500,of wich the sales man gets 250-300.i wish i had people paying 5500 profits,but it never would happen!but you always start some where,it sounds like bills sister got under cut on her trade value,and of course that gets added to the profit.if i lived in your town bill, i would tell everyone in the world this story,and how fast they refunded the 4 grand,word of mouth hurts a bad dealer as much as it helps a good one.
as a matter of fact,where i work has been here for 77 years,and i havent been able to get a new customer for myself in a few years,im to busy with the repeat,referals and the family members of the people i alraeday have dealt with,plus the normal everday operation of the store-before you throw stones,remember that all sales people arent like this slimy bastard that they dealt with-Andy, off the soap box

[doechsle]

 It is frustrating when a friend or family member goes out and does this. You have to let it go. No boby tied those people up and made them agree to the terms to get to go home, they agree to them themselves. The government is not here to protect people from themselves. If you go into a store and they tell you they want $3.50 for a 12 oz. can of Coke most people would not buy it,they would try somewhere else.How do you think Dealerships can buy large prime tracts of Real Estate to build these Car lots on? The ultimate responsibility of each persons well being relies upon themselves.

[Old Moparz]

Andy,

If you were closer to where I am, I'd have probably been a new Dodge owner a lot sooner. I see the typical stereotype of a greedy dealership, or pushy salespeople quite often, & usually walk. It pays to do your homework on whatever you buy & know what you want before you spend, but sometimes people get too emotional & caught up in the excitement of the new item. I haven't bought too many brand new vehicles, but I can see how some sales people really try to hype up the whole new car ownership experience. It's bad when the customer fall into it, because they don't look past the fact they'll be in a new car & end up paying too much, & sometimes not even know it.

Bob

[andy74]

thanks Bob!

[Orange_Crush]

So, $565 for 84 months is STILL $47,460 for a car that they NOW say they sold for $25,000. And no, they DIDN'T reduce the 10.4% rate, and my sister has excellent credit... What's up with that? Are they making a profit off the extra percentage points?

In a word...Yes.

[Old Moparz]

I think a lot of people don't know that the financing & the price of the car are tied together. Before my wife bought her first new car back in 1988, I bought a book that was written by someone who worked in auto sales. I wish I still had it, but it was basically a "how to" type book, that explained the whole process from dealerships getting the cars from the manufacturer, right through the costs, financing & the buyers. The writer started out as a salesperson & worked his way up into managing positions at several dealerships. The book was fantastic, because it wasn't written like an economics text book that would put you to sleep.

He had some funny & bizarre stories that went way back before certain laws were in effect to protect consumers. One of the biggest things I remember was how the salesperson always asks you "What do you want to pay each month?" & how it's totally irrelevant to the price on the car. The example he gave was when a very shrewd customer haggled with the price on a car with them for a couple of hours. They went back & forth on options, what they would or wouldn't include, & finally arrived at a price. He said he couldn't wait to be done & the customer was gone. It was only a small profit for the dealer on this one, but it was enough to make it worthwhile.

After all the haggling, the customer announces "Now, as for my monthly payment, I ain't spending one penny over $200 bucks!!" The salesman's mouth dropped open & he said he'd work it out. The price they agreed to would have put the monthly payment at about $160, but since the customer had no clue & said $200 was the limit, the salesman & the finance guy played with the interest rates & terms so the total price of the car went up, & the payment was $196. The salesman looked like a good guy to the customer because he saved him $4 on the payment, but in reality, the customer got reamed.

[bull]

It is frustrating when a friend or family member goes out and does this. You have to let it go. No boby tied those people up and made them agree to the terms to get to go home, they agree to them themselves. The government is not here to protect people from themselves. If you go into a store and they tell you they want $3.50 for a 12 oz. can of Coke most people would not buy it,they would try somewhere else.How do you think Dealerships can buy large prime tracts of Real Estate to build these Car lots on? The ultimate responsibility of each persons well being relies upon themselves.

I agree to a point. The thing is people buy canned beverages all the time and there is no paperwork involved. How often does the average person buy a car? Once every two years maybe? You've oversimplified your allegory but in the end the buyer has to beware no matter what the product or purchase arrangement.

Bill, if worse comes to worse there is a legal yet effective way to help the dealership see things your sister's way. It involves a large sign attached to a piece of wood and lots of free time spend out on the sidewalk in front of the dealership. That's right... picket! It's worked before and it'll work again. Dealerships rely on lots of traffic for their business, thus the balloons, banners, displays, etc. Nothing puts a wad in their shorts quicker than some poor young lady out front with a sign that says "I got screwed by So-and-So Dodge."

[Shakey]

It is frustrating when a friend or family member goes out and does this. You have to let it go. No boby tied those people up and made them agree to the terms to get to go home, they agree to them themselves. The government is not here to protect people from themselves. If you go into a store and they tell you they want $3.50 for a 12 oz. can of Coke most people would not buy it,they would try somewhere else.How do you think Dealerships can buy large prime tracts of Real Estate to build these Car lots on? The ultimate responsibility of each persons well being relies upon themselves.

I agree to a point. The thing is people buy canned beverages all the time and there is no paperwork involved. How often does the average person buy a car? Once every two years maybe? You've oversimplified your allegory but in the end the buyer has to beware no matter what the product or purchase arrangement.

Bill, if worse comes to worse there is a legal yet effective way to help the dealership see things your sister's way. It involves a large sign attached to a piece of wood and lots of free time spend out on the sidewalk in front of the dealership. That's right... picket! It's worked before and it'll work again. Dealerships rely on lots of traffic for their business, thus the balloons, banners, displays, etc. Nothing puts a wad in their shorts quicker than some poor young lady out front with a sign that says "I got screwed by So-and-So Dodge."

Better yet, have her husband put on a t-shirt that says "Mean ol' Dodge Dealer" and he can put the boots to her on the sidwalk in front of the dealership.  That'll get their attention!

[ChgrSteve67]

Something else they can do if they got a crappy interest rate is refinance the car.
I'll keep my opinion to myself on how I feel about dealership auto loan companies.

Have them check with their bank or credit union and see if they can get a better rate,
also a lot of credit unions also have extended warranty's and gap insurance cheaper than any dealership.

Also have them ask about getting additional points or half points taken off the interest rate buy doing things like direct deposit and / or automatic withraw of the car payment each month.

[DC_1]

Sorry to here about your experience with that dealer. I have had issues with the local DCX dealer were I live. So much so that I buy or lease my vehicles form the dealer in my home town 4 hours away. I have been dealing with the same salesman since 1996 and I look at the dealer locally and even test drive the cars. But then I call my guy and ask him what its going to cost me. He is allways $3000 - $4000 cheaper than anyone local. Plus he delivers the car to me free of charge!

This summer when I brought my truck in for service to the local dealer I ran into a guy in the service dept who was really bitching about the dealer. If you have some time read his saga

http://www.donotbuydodge.ca/

And the Big 3 wonder why people are buying Japanese!

Cheers!

[Silver R/T]

ya dealers are almost all of them are croocks, I never go to dealer to buy car/truck etc.

[Ponch ®]

ya dealers are almost all of them are croocks, I never go to dealer to buy car/truck etc.

Do you EVER...EVER put any thought into any of your posts?

[Orange_Crush]

In Charlotte, NC, where, if what they sell has wheels, they are worthless backstabbing shyster sons-of-bitches, your best defense is to be informed.

Since I pay cash for my cars, what I do is the following.   

I research EXACTLY which car I want, EXACTLY what dealer invoice is, EXACTLY how much I'm willing to pay, and which dealer has the car I want.

I take the car I'm trading in or selling to CarMax.   The money they give you won't be as good as if you sell the car outright, but it'll be a lot better than what the dealership will give you as a trade-in...besides, if the dealership does give you a better price on your trade-in, they'll just up the price of the car you're buying (or sneak it into your financing).

Its like the Vegas rule...the house never loses.

After I have the money (as CarMax pays with a draft you may have to borrow a car for a couple of days until the money hits your account), I walk into the dealership, I walk up the the first of the greasy bastards I see (like I said, there are no good car salesmen in Charlotte...good guys exist, just not here). and tell him EXACTLY what I am interested in.   

The first thing he's gonna do is offer me a test drive.   I'll drive the car and test out the radio, seats, comfort, A/C, Heat, etc.

Then, we'll get back to the dealership and the first thing he'll do is pull out the foursquare sheet (AKA customer fucking tool).   He'll ask you what monthly payment you want, DO NOT FALL INTO THIS TRAP.   He will ask this over and over and try to insist you give it to him.   Just tell him that you only look at bottom line price and NOT monthly payment.

He will then likely ask if you are planning to finance, tell him yes (yes, you're lying...at least I am...) if you finance, the dealership gets a commission from the lender.

He will ask if you have a trade-in, tell him no.   This may hurt you a little bit, but you've gotta have money to buy the car.

Then, he's gonna ask you what you're wanting to pay.   Don't fall into this trap either.   You don't want to put the power in his hands.

Then, he's gonna (hopefully) quote you a highball price.   Just laugh.   Say "no way!"   Bend over the desk and say "here, this'll make it easier."   ask him if he's gonna kiss you first...whatever...have some fun with it.

After you do all this, he's gonna ask you what you want to pay, give him YOUR price, but not the price you're actually willing to pay...offer LESS (my rule of thumb is whatever puts me 200 bucks below dealer invoice not taking into accout FTD incentives, rebates, etc.).   In addition,   this is not such a low figure that the salesman will laugh in my face.   You may get lucky, but, more than likely, it'll be time for "The manager talk."   The manager talk is BS,   every salesman knows EXACTLY what the dealership's bottom line is on a sale.   The "manager talk" is a tool to make you sweat it out.

Car salesmen are good people-readers so make sure you keep him off balance and the best way to do that is to quickly shift from an attitude of mistrust to an attitude of "HEY...I'M YOUR BUDDY!" and back again.   Also, subtly keep yourself in a position of superiority.   WHen he sits, you stand.   WHen you shake his hand, look into his eyes and keep a firm grip.   If he starts to act hostile, be hostile right back or just walk out.   Never be so hung up on a car that you aren't willing to walk out.

One of my favorite tactics is to take a trip to the bathroom or coffee machine during every "manager talk" or every time to salesman leaves the office.   This puts him in a position of having to go find me.   He does this enough times, he'll give me whatever deal I want just to get rid of me.

Also, if your wife or someone else is in the office with you while the salesman is out doing whatever, DO NOT TALK about the sale in the office.   I've been to more than one dealership where they leave the telephone intercom on so they can hear what you're saying.

Okay, you go back-and-forth and finally agree on a price that is satisfactory to you.   Now you go see the finance manager.   He'll give you the upsells (extended warranty, etc) just say no.Then he'll give you the final bill which has all your tax, tag, etc. fees.   These will, as usual, be exhorbitant.   The one you need to focus on is the admin fee...usually 350 bucks.   ABSOLUTELY, CATEGORICALLY refuse to pay it.   Some dealerships won't budge on it, in that case, tell them they can:

A:   Drop the price of the car the same amount as the admin fee.

B.   Tell them to stick the car up their poopchute.

I'm not going to pay an extra 400 bucks to a dealership for some unspecified admin fee so I can pay their personnell to do what they're supposed to pay them to do.

Now, once you have that ironed out, tell them you no longer want to finance and you're paying cash.   If they don't go for it, just leave, chances are about 90% they will be fine with it.

If you are financing, just make sure that you have your bank's interest rate in your back pocket.   If the dealership's is better than your bank's (it often is) then GREAT!   sign the papers, gitcher car, and be on your way, if not, go to your bank, complete the financing process, and go back and gitcher car and be on your way.

This system has worked very well for me.

[Orange_Crush]

ya dealers are almost all of them are croocks, I never go to dealer to buy car/truck etc.

Do you EVER...EVER put any thought into any of your posts?

You're just now noticing this??

[HAZZARDJOHN]

Orange crush you are exactly right! The only thing I would add is Never buy the car on the same day you work out the deal! And under no circumstances give them a deposit! they always will try this, and it is a psycological game. I am lucky because I worked at a dealership and found out who the best salesman was and bought a car from him. We have since become friends, and we have Barbecues and go to the bar. He is a great guy. I don’t care if he starts selling Saturns I will go to him for all my new car needs, because he doesn’t play games. I have sent a lot of people to him and they say the same thing. He figured out along time ago that it doesn’t pay to tick off your customers after the sale. Almost all of his business is repeated. When I graduated college I was going to buy a new truck, before I lost my Employee discount. Well he moved on to another dealership, and I couldn’t take my employee plan over there.   So I walked in to the first salesman that came and talked to me. This guy did the whole buddy, buddy thing. This was in Dec of ’03, Well they were selling ’03 F150’s with a certain package for a really good deal, of 19,000 for a XLT 4X4. It was the year end close out and the 04’s were already out so they had to get rid of the old body style. I picked out a loaded Lariat with leather interior and did the math on it. According to them it should be 24,000 if you knock off the same amount of the sticker price. A good deal I thought for a truck that sold new for over 30k. Anyways the Buddy,Buddy guy disappeared and a Hindu guy comes out to “finish the deal.” My mistake #1: He asked how much am I willing to pay a month. I said my answer. My mistake #2 I was trading in my old truck, he drove it and told me what they were going to give me for it. It was about $5000 less than trade in value. I told him that I couldn’t accept that and I got up to walk away! Mistake #3: I stopped when he said there must be something we can do about this. He then said he needed to get on the horn with Ford and work this out. I then went into the lobby and started watching a movie that was playing. Mistake #4: I stayed until the movie was over and watched half of another one. He then came back in and shook my hand and said we worked it out. Mistake #5: I assumed he meant that ford either knocked the difference of the total amount or they are going to give me more for my truck. Here is where I start to do things right. He asks for my keys to my old truck, I ask what for, He says so they can pull it back inside the lot. I said I am not taking the new truck home today!   He gave me the guilt trip about how he had to beg ford to do it and if he had to call them back they would be upset at him. I said tough. He then said he could wait until tomorrow morning, but that would be pushing ford. Then he proceeded to go through the financing of this truck through ford, and confused the hell out of me. I said give me a copy of everything and let me go through it tonight. For some reason he just had a tough time with this one, but finally he let me have the forms, than he pulled the old, “give me what ever you can to hold it for you!” There were four of them identical to this one on the lot! I said if it sells then I guess it wasn’t meant to be. And I walked away. I never came back!   He called me about a week later and left a message and said he would like to work something out. The kicker was I went through the papers and somehow the price of the truck went up to $37,000 it was at 8% interest for 72 months. The sticker on the truck was 34,000 and with the end of the year incentives it should have been at $27,000 for any idiot of the street let alone my employee discount that should have brought the price down to 24k. I still have the paper work and I still can’t figure out where the price jumped up 13,000 dollars! The up side is I bought a truck from my friend and I left their dealer stickers on it and parked it in the employee parking right next to the manager’s car every day just to prove my point. He gave me the fleet discount and I got a real good deal on my Ranger.

Have a great day!
John

[doechsle]

 It took 2 months for me to get a deal I would accept on my new Truck.The Truck I wanted was a Conversion so it was not like I could just go to another dealer to get a different price quote.I even called the conversion company to find out it was a custom ordered conversion and evedently the person who ordered it could not come up with the financing. But what made it happen was the fact I stayed on the Sales Managers butt about the truck and even went ahead to another dealer and made a good deal on a std that would leave me with enough to customize it myself. I took that to the other dealer and showed it to him and he knew then I was serious enough and he gave me a deal I would accept.If it wasnt such a cool truck I would never had went thru that much trouble though.

[69_500]

Me and my wife had the same sort of scene play out 3 years ago while looking for a truck. I get a green slip price from Dodge, and was looking at a 2500 Ram quad cab, 4X4, with the HEMI. I couldn't spring the extra money to get the cummings I really wanted.
Anyway we had a 2002 Mitsubishi Eclipse with I think 3,000 miles on it, and we owed $5,000 on the car. The truck I was looking at stickered at $30,480. Without any money down we had already figured the payements for 5 years to be around $500 a month. We were planning on putting $3,000 down, and trading in the car, which at the time was going for about $14,000 trade in value. My wife worked at a car lot and we looked up the t rade in amount in their books.
Anyways the discount worked out to be that we could get the truck for $25,980 I   think it was. So we were pretty excited about that, and figured that all in all we would be financing about $20,000 after trading in the Eclipse. Well we hadn't told them we were trading in anything up until then. So then we informed them we wanted to trade the car in towards the truck. They took it for a drive, then came back with some figures on how much the payement would be. First figure he comes back with is $980 a month for 48 months. Now I'm no idiot so I asked him if I looked like I had failed 3rd grade math. Probably not the nicest thing to say, but did he think I just fell off the turnip truck. I asked him if he was thinking he had made a mistake on his figures. He said no. I asked to see his figures and he said "its our policy to not show those."
I stood up ready to leave, and he stopped me. Told me he could work things out. So 20 minutes later he come back with another idiotic amount. $642 a month for 72 months. Once again I asked what figures he was using to come up with that amount. He said 6% interest, with $3,000 down. I then asked what they were giving me on the Eclipse he said $4,000. Now remember this is a car with 3,000 miles on the car, and is only 1 year old. So he was adding $1,000 to the sell price, and he was trying to not honor the green slip I had. So he was charging me $31,480 for the car, and I noticed that the interest rate wasn't 6% but 16%. If my wife hadn't been there at the dealership, I would have reached over that desk and knocked his teeth out. We just got up and walked out. 3 days later he had the nerve to call me at the house and ask if we were going to come back in and go over the numbers again, and maybe get the truck. I just laughed at him, do they really think people are that dumb?

[HAZZARDJOHN]

You brought up another Good tip!

Never Tell them what you owe on your trade. It should make no difference. They aren't going to offer you any more than you owe and I honestly think they purposly offer you 1000 less. If they don't know what you owe they will be forced to guess. They don't want you storming out of there because they offered you too little, but they really want you to be upside down on your loan so that they can finance more from you.   You will probably get a little higher than they would give you if they knew this information. Don't count on it though. The more knowledge they have the easier it is going to be to mislead you!

[69_500]

I always tell them upfront I'm not trading in anything. Or if I do tell them that I'm trading a car in, I don't tell them I owe anything on it, even if I do.

[Old Moparz]

One of the easiest ways to get through all the interest & percentage rate BS with the tag team of salespeople & hidden managers they go visit, is to just have the figures before you go. If you pick an arbitrary price, an interest rate, the term of the loan & the sales tax amount, you can use an on line payment calculator to see what the monthly payment is.

http://autos.yahoo.com/finance/loan-calc/

The truck I bought in July was a leftover '04 in the paper for $23,000 & the sticker was $36,000. Knowing how much I was putting down & how long I wanted to make payments, I calculated the monthly payment. I did it with several interest rates, each 1/4 point apart. I got one from my bank, two on line, & waited to hear what the dealer would offer. He was a point higher than the highest, so I told him I had one a point lower than my lowest & would go there.

They suddenly discovered they could do better than the best they could do, & actually matched the lowest rate I did get. When they calculated the monthly payment, it was a lot higher than the number I had. After discussing it, I saw that they had sales tax added into the figure. Once they deducted that, the price was almost exactly to the penny of what it should've been. I left them $100 deposit with one stipulation that they agreed to, that my wife could physically drive the truck without visibility issues. (She's 5'2" tall, & the seat/windshield postion is a problem.)

No trade in, no extended warranty, no service & towing plans, & nothing extra was added, even though they tried very hard to.   

[andy74]

what you owe and what they are worth are 2 different things,if you own the car free and clear,is it worth 0?sounds like a lot of you guys should fly to syracuse and buy from me,it would be worth the cost of a plane ticket! the horror stories about shitty dealers are always amazing to me,because people always go back for another rim jobbing-why not find someone honest to deal with?

oh,and fuck carmax,any dollar amount they give you on a car is thousands less than a trade should be,unless its junk

[HAZZARDJOHN]

what you owe and what they are worth are 2 different things,if you own the car free and clear,is it worth 0?...

That is not what I meant, I just said that most people go in there hoping that they will give them what they owe. My Car salesman buddy tells me that the guys that figure out how much they are gonna give you on trade, want to know if you owe any thing. If it is lower than the amount they might other wise give you will knock it down a peg because, most people are happy if they just pay off there old loan. I would bet good money if they knew you owed nothing on the car they would lowball you because they figure you won’t care as much as someone who owes say 1,000 more than the offer. My Friend doesn’t get to figure how much he gives you for trade. They have their used car manager do that. He says he loses a ton of deals because of the lowballing that goes on. I am not saying that Car salesman are all bad. He is one of my best friends. I am sure you are a decent car salesmen. But It is a business and it helps to go in there with a strategy ahead of time.

Have a great day!
John

[ChargerBill]

Do you EVER...EVER put any thought into any of your posts?

My guess is "NO"....I think it's all about being heard and getting a high count, because I honestly think 90% of it is just plain nonsense.

[Silver R/T]

opinions are like assholes, and Im not into assholes. Good day

[ChargerBill]

opinions are like assholes, and Im not into assholes. Good day

[moparguy01]

opinions are like assholes, and Im not into assholes. Good day

neither are any of us. keep yours to yourself.

oh yeah. Good day.


sounds like they got worked over real good.

[Ponch ®]

opinions are like assholes, and Im not into assholes. Good day

my opinion is that you are an asshole. Good Day.

[ChargerBill]

UPDATE: I just got off the phone with my sister (my bro-in-law didn't want to talk to me...I think he's really embarassed) and told her that she should try to refinance through her bank credit union. She's going to check it out tomorrow. Shouldn't they be able to finance a new car for 3% to 5%? And I was wondering (just to get some satisfaction) how much $$$ will this screw the dealership and the salesman out of?

BTW: They're both home because he's sick and she is a cosmetologist who sets her own hours. What kills me is that she makes BANK, but it's mostly cash and she blows it as soon as it ends up in her hands.

[Silver R/T]

opinions are like assholes, and Im not into assholes. Good day

my opinion is that you are an asshole. Good Day.

wow we come together on this one...as I think of you the same

[ChargerBill]

Hey, this is MY thread, and if anyone is going to get it locked...it'll be ME. Now shut your trap and just THINK before you speak and we'll all cut you some slack....

[dodgeboy67]

tell her to be thankful she doesnt have 18 or 21 percent interest like me.....DAMN X WIFE

[Neal_J]

Wow, no offense but your sister and brother-in-law seem incredibly ignorant.   Not necessarily stuipd but really, really ignorant.  

Sure, it's shameful for the car salesman to rip them off, but not altogether surprising given that they seem to be devoid of basic common sense and money management skills.   Lucky for them, I guess, that you're willing to help bail them out.   Personally, I'd step back and let them learn a rather expensive but valuable lesson.

A course in basic money management at the local community college might be a good idea if they hope to keep any of the BANK you say they make.

Good luck to them...

Neal J.

[694spdRT]

UPDATE: I just got off the phone with my sister (my bro-in-law didn't want to talk to me...I think he's really embarassed) and told her that she should try to refinance through her bank credit union. She's going to check it out tomorrow. Shouldn't they be able to finance a new car for 3% to 5%? And I was wondering (just to get some satisfaction) how much $$$ will this screw the dealership and the salesman out of?

BTW: They're both home because he's sick and she is a cosmetologist who sets her own hours. What kills me is that she makes BANK, but it's mostly cash and she blows it as soon as it ends up in her hands.

I bet the best she is going to find right now is around 6%. Plus, her car is probably going to be considered used now. Last month I got 5.9% on a 2005 Dodge RAM with a real good credit history and I think that rates just went up a little.   

[Silver R/T]

Hey, this is MY thread, and if anyone is going to get it locked...it'll be ME. Now shut your trap and just THINK before you speak and we'll all cut you some slack....

all ive said is that I do not like dealers as they will always rip you off. What is bad about this sentence?

[Spartan]

I was suprised to hear the intrest rate was so high.   I thought some of the car companies were rock-bottoming the loan to keep inventory moving.   I got a good deal when I bought the Avalanche through GMAC (unless DCX doesn't offer financing, that I am not sure) so that was another draw to bring people into the showrooms.   10% sounds like gouging the more I think about it.

On the resale value, in the car companies haste to move new products they have created a surplus of used cars.   All the early turn-in offers on leases and discounts/rebates have drove the trade-in values right into the ground.

If they don't consider it new when they refinance it, the used car rate is a little higher, hopefully the get the new car rate.

I hope they get it straightened out.

Andy, I hope you didn't take offense to what I posted earlier.  You sound like the kind of guy I would buy from. 

There are good guys and bad guys in every feild, everyone always seems to remember the bad people though.

[694spdRT]

I don't remember if you said what year the Magnum was but, looking at the current Dodge incentives if the Magnum was a leftover '05 model they should have been able to get either $2500 in rebates or 3.9% for up to 60 months plus a $1000 rebate. If it is an '06 model there is only a $1000 rebate and no financing deal.

If it was an '05 they should have took the 3.9% because of the amount being financed. If it is an '06 they are at the mercy of the banks for rates.

I just talked to my dad and he just bought a leftover '05 Ram and the best out there was 6.1% through all the banks the dealers use......that may vary some where you live I suppose. 

[ChargerBill]

Hey, this is MY thread, and if anyone is going to get it locked...it'll be ME. Now shut your trap and just THINK before you speak and we'll all cut you some slack....

all ive said is that I do not like dealers as they will always rip you off. What is bad about this sentence?

OK, now I've reached my limit.... dude, you are one of the most idiotic posters I have EVER seen on this website. Now you're going to PLAY INNOCENT here and take my comment out of context? You commented about opinions and @$$holes and it went downhill from there, and YOU KNOW (even as dumb as you appear to be) that I was talking about THAT. You're really friggin' lucky I'm not a mod, because the sheer volume of stupidity, insults, tactless jibber jabber and assinine statements you have posted on this forum is so out of control that I would have locked you and your IP out a long time ago...I'd say Troy has the patience of a saint. Grab a freakin' clue, pull your head out and pay attention to the subject at hand. Stop clicking threads with the immediate intent to add your .05 ¢ (I'm not sure it's even worth THAT much)and READ the responses, THEN maybe research the topic a bit (read a newspaper or try googling once in a while), THEN formulate (do you understand that word?) an opinion,   and THEN, IF and only IF you have something pertinent (do you understand that word?) to say....then say it. Your drivel is driving most of us nuts and your AK47 comments are about as moronic as it gets. Sure, it's entertaining sometimes (kind of like watching a train wreck), but it's also very irritating. Anyone else agree here?...

[69charger2002]

 

[Troy]

Anyone else agree here?...

Um, yeah, but I forgot to put the "Don't be Stupid" disclaimer in the Terms of Service...

Troy

[bull]

I've learned some very useful things when buying cars and the number 1 rule is don't do your "research" on the car lot. Figure out what you want and how much it's worth before you walk onto the lot. Sounds simple but apparently it's a mystery to many people.

Rule #2: Don't get financing through the dealership. This eliminates a lot of vague numbers games by the salesman.
Rule #3: Call around and find the car you want as per rule #1 and don't go there until you've worked out you're financing and know the low book value.
Rule #4: Have a deadline of when you plan to leave the dealership with car or without and tell the salesman. Make it a real one too. Make a 3 pm appointment and walk onto the car lot at 1:30 pm. Tell the salesman you have 1 hour to make this work. Here's my offer for that specific car, I have my own financing and I'm leaving at 2:30 pm to go to the dentist and I'm not budging on the price. You'll take this amount for it or nothing and I'm leaving.

[Orange_Crush]

One more little rule of thumb that may help you out. 

I have not been at a dealership YET where this hasn't helped.

If the dealership closes at 9PM, show up at 8:45PM. 

The salesman is gonna want to go home and you'll be the only thing keeping him there.  That'll keep negotiations short.

[andy74]

the rates just went up again,its the first of the month and that is generally when the banks do so.the best 72 month rate i can get for 72 months,is 5.8, the only time you want to for go a rebate in place of finance is if you will save more over the term(rare)or if you are keeping the car to the end of the loan.by financing a lower amount you reduse the amount of principal,which means you will have a lesser balance to pay off.

and i agree,some people need to pull their head out of their but before posting,
and when you do your negotiations, i disagree with oc,start first thing on a saturday am,or monday am-that is when the guys most want to sell something,the end of the day he may not even care if you buy or not.

[Orange_Crush]

oh,and i agree,silver you are a dick

Classic

[John_Kunkel]

I'm of the opinion that there are only two kinds of new car buyers, those who got screwed and those who got screwed but think they got a good/great deal.

Some interesting reading on the subject:

http://www.aiada.org/article.asp?id=41074

[Troy]

From the link that John posted it seems that the 3 day cooling off period only covers used cars. Not too much help in this case but definitely a step in the right direction.

I think buying a car is one of the easiest ways to waste a large chunk of money without realizing how bad you just got ripped off. It's a depreciating investment that people pay interest on top of just for the privilege of throwing their money away. Unfortunately, I know a lot of people who think they have to buy new for the warranty etc. because they need a reliable car and are clueless when it comes to troubleshooting. It's also rediculously easy to get a car loan too which encourages consumers to overextend themselves. Too bad we all like cars so much...

Troy

[Brock Samson]

   That's why i bought my daily as a low Mi. lease return,.. @ $15K compared to the $29-31 K new...still learned something in the process,.. i shouldn't have bought the exrta stuff as the cough, cough,.. supposed warrenty has only covered $200 worth of stuff,.. and i paid $2K for it..  
since at the time i was gonna sell the charger and basicly trade straight away... i didn't mind the extra costs initally,.. once i decided to keep the charger it became problematic... i was faced with a nearly additional $10K in costs over the 5 yr. loan i set up, now,.. 2.5 years later... i finaly paid it off,.. so Whew...      and I still got my R/T SE which has appreciated at least   10K...  

i figgure the M is worth 10-13K now and the charger is worth maybe twice that... funny i was thinkin of trading straight across when the Ms came out in '99..
as it worked out i was delayed by stumbbleing across the   $2.3K '89 new yawker for a year... a good thing!     since it allowed me to keep the Skunk...

[69_500]

I'll agree that some people need to think before they type. I think that plenty of those people should just bypass hitting the reply button, and go on to reading the next topic.

I personally won't ever finance a car past 60 months. I don't really even like to take the loans out for 5 years. Because when you break it down, you usually get a better rate on the shorter loan. So say you pay 4% on a 4 year loan but 5.9% on a 5 year loan. Yeah the 4 year may be $75 more a month, but in the long run you'll save over a $1,000. So to me its always worth more to pay a little more each month, and save in the long run. Then again I always go into purchasing a vehicle knowing that I won't spend more than what I can afford on a 4 year loan. I too always go look at a car, get the sticker price, rebates and such then run the numbers past a few banks. Then I typically use a loan calculator and figure up the payments based on interst rates and lengths, and print out the results. That is how we figured up what interest rate the one dealership was trying to stick us with, on the RAM that we passed on.

[nh_mopar_fan]

Get a book called "Don't Get Taken Every Time" by Remar Sutton.

READ IT.

[HAZZARDJOHN]

I understand your guys opinions on purchasing new cars, and I am glad that works for you, but I would hold back on judging everybody that buys a new car as some ignorant fool. I understand the depreciation of buying a new car, but I don't care. I buy a new truck every two to three years. I drive about 45-60 thousand miles a year. It adds up fast. I like knowing what my car has been through since it was new. I like knowing that it was maintained. There is almost no way of knowing that with a used car. not to mention when I bought my current truck, an 04 ranger, that stickers for 26,000, I paid 18,500. They had a used 2002 ranger there with the similar equipment for 16k with 30,000. It was a lease return. What is the incentive to even change the oil in a leased car? For two thousand I got a truck with EXACTLY the options I want, in the color I want, with 6 miles on the odometer. In my opinion I think it was worth every penny. I traded my 01 ranger,Which was paid off, in on this one, and they gave me $11,500. That meant that my 04 cost me 7000 dollars. I already have this one paid off. and am putting the money in the bank to buy my next truck, next year. I am hoping to pay cash for that one. If I was willing to live closer to the cities and drive less, I could probably go the used truck route, but it honestly doesn't make any sense to me. I understand the cost thing, but if i didn't spend it on this I would spend it on something else that is just as ridiculous to most people. Life is too short and you can't take it with you!

[694spdRT]

 

I grew tired of buying 15 year old vehicles with 100,000 miles on them and wondering what would break next. I understand newer vehicles are not a good investment and I don't consider them one. If you get out of the newer vehicle trading market it is very, very costly to get back in. I worked hard to get my first new truck paid off in three years, have kept trading for very reasonable numbers by any means necessary, and gradually over ten years worked up to the diesel I have always wanted. Take good care of your vehicle that way you have something to bargain with at trade in time. My other problem is I have gotten tired of trying to sell my old trucks outright as I did it for years and it was always a hassle because people couldn't come up with the money, low balled you, or made me wait around all weekend and never showed up. All the while the new vehicle I had my eye on got sold.

Recently, while I was shopping for a newer truck I was laughing at the asking prices some places wanted for high mileage trucks. This is especially true with Cummins diesel trucks. It is great a Cummins lasts 500,000 miles but, the rest of the truck is going to be wore out long before that. After much looking I found a 13,000 mile 2005 Cummins that was $7000 less than a new 2006 even after all the rebates on the new one. The 2005 has more equipment and I will keep it for about 4 or 5 years anyway so the one year difference will not effect me too much. My old truck was by no means wore out but, if I kept it much longer I would have had to run it in the ground and start all over again. 

[Brock Samson]

opinions are like assholes, and Im not into assholes. Good day

From The Mind Of Silver...

[bull]

I think buying a car is one of the easiest ways to waste a large chunk of money without realizing how bad you just got ripped off. It's a depreciating investment that people pay interest on top of just for the privilege of throwing their money away. Unfortunately, I know a lot of people who think they have to buy new for the warranty etc. because they need a reliable car and are clueless when it comes to troubleshooting. It's also rediculously easy to get a car loan too which encourages consumers to overextend themselves. Too bad we all like cars so much...

Troy

Ideally you should never buy a car newer than a year or two old and always pay cash.

[Orange_Crush]

I think buying a car is one of the easiest ways to waste a large chunk of money without realizing how bad you just got ripped off. It's a depreciating investment that people pay interest on top of just for the privilege of throwing their money away. Unfortunately, I know a lot of people who think they have to buy new for the warranty etc. because they need a reliable car and are clueless when it comes to troubleshooting. It's also rediculously easy to get a car loan too which encourages consumers to overextend themselves. Too bad we all like cars so much...

Troy

Ideally you should never buy a car newer than a year or two old and always pay cash.

As I had mentioned before, I always pay cash for cars...just doesn't make sense for me to pay $26000 bucks for a $20,000 car.

I don't, however, buy used cars anymore.  Every used car that I have ever bought has given me nothing but trouble.  I just can't trust the treatment that the previous owners gave the car...and now, with so many off-lease vehicles being sold as used cars, its even worse, Lease customers are notorious for beating the hell out of their cars.

[694spdRT]

IMO if any of you guys are thinking about owning a "new" Dodge truck outright vs a used one now is the time to buy. I have been looking around for a work truck for our business to replace the ten year old one we have.

If you get to the right dealer that wants to move vehicles the leftover 2005's are about as cheap as I have ever seen because of the inventory reduction going on.

Here are some examples: BTW the first two were just for curiosity sake not practical for work.

2005 Rumble Bee 4 x 4 list price of $36,000 outright price $24,000
2005 Quad Cab Daytona 4 x 4 list price of $40,800 outright for about $27,000.
Ton's of 2005 Regular cab 4 x 4 Hemi's for $20-22,000 depending on options.  
2005 Ram 2wd Hemi with a list price of around $32,000 outright $16,900 (This is a loaded up oddball that makes the most sense for me. More truck than what I really need but, a new plain jane V6 Chevy W/T is around $15,200)

I have looked at some used trucks but for the miles that they have and the asking price the new makes more sense to me.

[Old Moparz]

I have looked at some used trucks but for the miles that they have and the asking price the new makes more sense to me.

That's exactly what happened in my case. The Pathfinder I was driving had 165,000 miles & starting to get some rust, & I would have had to buy tires before the winter too. Since it was used when we bought it, we don't know the entire history of how it was taken care of. It ran great & never cost anything except for maintenance, but you get to a point where it just doesn't make sense to keep dumping money into an old beater that's just a daily driver. What happens if I have to go for a timing belt, battery or something else on borrowed time? I can spend lots of money on it & still have a rot box when I'm done.

I started looking at new & used vehicles in the price range of a new PT Cruiser, & started to think more about replacing our '95 Ford F-150 that we tow with & use that as a daily driver. When I priced a few used trucks I came across the ad for the Dodge Ram 1500 I ended up buying. There were 2 used trucks I saw less than 2 or 3 years old. One was $25,000 with 30K miles on it, & the other was $20,000 with more miles. The Dodge was a 2004 leftover with 20 miles on it, & a sticker of $36,065. It's a 4x4 Quad cab with a Hemi, an 8 foot bed, Infinity CD & cassette, heated mirrors & a few more things I haven't found yet. It was discounted to $23,065 & a no brainer to buy.

Used is a better investment if you are looking at it dollar for dollar, but I keep my vehicles a lot longer than 2 or 3 years. I see them as a necessity & not an investment, & don't worry about the resale value. By the time I am ready to get rid of something, it's a good starter vehicle that doesn't cost much for someone else. My Ford has 125,000 miles on it now & is a clean, rust free truck that's 11 years old. As long as it doesn't start to rot out I'll keep it & maintain it. It's tough to not want to drive the Dodge since it's new & has a decent stereo, but I'm hoping to get a few more years out of the Ford & keep the Dodge for the next daily driver.

I've had my share of $100 beaters & the headaches that go with them. New is nicer.

[andy74]

the only thing for any of you guys looking for a new dodge,the bonus cash is tied to finance with chrysler financial-the best rate they have is 6.9,so then you can check your own bank-just remember you give up 1-2 grand,and it takes a lot of rate difference to make that up,let me know if i can help any of you guys out,except silver-Andy