new quarters, with a seam problem

[Patronus]

I know you guys like pics, this is just too hard to capture so please bear with me. I recently put new quarters on. Used "all-metal" as a base coat and then only minor light filler to finish the b pillar seams. Finally wet sanded outside today and thought I would let it dry out. It appears the sun heats up the seam and it pops up. I can see each spot weld hole we welded and each stitch weld! Plus the entire actual 1/4" seam...Then I push the car inside, it cools and is perfect again. What do I need to learn the hard way? 

[Patronus]

http://www.restorick.com/tech/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=33
found this interesting, seems an Eastwood leading kit in the near future...

[SFRT]

I did mine with the eastwood kit.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,66390.0.html

[Patronus]

thanks yo. On your pic of the passenger side seam, did you use 'all-metal' after the leading, or is that all lead?

[SFRT]

its all lead. we filed off the big stuff then sanded. you can sand with the new lead. at the end we did lay on the thinnest possible layer of metal to metal creme but theres no pic of that.

[Patronus]

did you need more lead than in the kit? ($160)

[cobramike33]

Why not mig weld instead of lead melting the seam between the 1/4 and roof?

[Patronus]

We did mig weld it. Its the filler thats the problem...

[cobramike33]

I see. What caused that problem?

[Silver R/T]

so seams are showing through urethane primer?

[Patronus]

So far Ive heard its either the difference in expansion of the metal as opposed to the filler (as this particular seam is thick) Personally, we cleaned the seam, welded up the spot weld cutter holes, stitch welded the entire seam, self-etching priner, 'all-metal' filler, urethane 2k primer, and then light weight filler. The other thing I've heard is that the welds themselves release gasses so once sealed they expand differently than the solids and you should sand blast them first,... to what difference? I do not know.... either way, I need to dig it out and try something else. When the car heats up every weld and the whole seam "telegraphs" and then is gone once cooled. Apparently the A bodies are much more prone to this and the 'cudas even more so. 

[Patronus]

my twin and I were having a discussion on this issue today. In the 'weld in a piece of metal ' scenario would you still need to lead?

[SFRT]

I dont know...what we did was replicate the factory spot welds and then lead in the depression, factory style. no real need to stitch weld that area  as it is not load bearing. the 'depression' is really big there with a steep transition so I think the problem is in the boundary area between the thicker and thinner parts of the different materials.

[Silver R/T]

Why are you putting body filler over 2k primer? Was the area low? I would've done it differently.
After you've welded it all up, grind it down as needed. Apply metal-to-metal, grind that down with 80 grit, just to shape it. Apply regular body filler over that. Then I'd go with 2K primer over that and it should be ready to go after you sand 2k primer.

[Patronus]

pretty sure its that the seam is the deepest on the whole car at the b pillar...and that leads to problems with filler and no lead (which I tried)
some have said to cut a strip to fit into the seam and weld that in to take up space and then you can use fillers... the last thing I want to do is a 3rd round at it...

[Silver R/T]

maybe you can post some pics of the problem area

[tan top]

maybe you can post some pics of the problem area

  need to see whats happening really   

[Patronus]

wish I could, but its hard to capture out in the sun. Its fine, we will dig it out and lead this time. Im glad I saw it now, I'd be really pissed if it were after paint.

[elitecustombody]

weld a strip to bridge over the canyon and forget about it, I could never understand guys leading the seams, it's like they plan on going back in there and replace roof or quarter, and make sure to completely finish welding the seam,use air blow gun to keep the metal from warping, don't tack and slap filler

[Patronus]

took your advise

[Patronus]

let her heat up really good yesterday with no problems 
thanks for the help...

[elitecustombody]

good to know,

[Patronus]

ok, so I spoke too soon. The sun got up yesterday, hot style. Still telegraphing  only when the suns directly above 
After welding in the splice we added some welds to the top (near sail panel) as this was the thickest part of the seam. (no issues there) Ground everything out really good and still seeing the seam   
Im cringing at the thought of opening her up again...

[SFRT]

weld a strip to bridge over the canyon and forget about it, I could never understand guys leading the seams, it's like they plan on going back in there and replace roof or quarter, and make sure to completely finish welding the seam,use air blow gun to keep the metal from warping, don't tack and slap filler

well..if anyone ever hits my car, and I have to replace the quarter,, the melting out the leading and drilling out the spot welds will make it fairly easy as oppossed to dealing with some massive welding along the seam. One reason i leaded the seams, the other reason was to avoid the very issue happening here....

[Patronus]

weld a strip to bridge over the canyon and forget about it, I could never understand guys leading the seams, it's like they plan on going back in there and replace roof or quarter, and make sure to completely finish welding the seam,use air blow gun to keep the metal from warping, don't tack and slap filler

Well, we've been tinkering and sanding and sanding and sanding. She's in sealer ready to paint and Im going to have to open the b-pillar seams for a third time. PLEASE, anyone reading this who is installing new quarters, PLEASE, just lead the seams!!! 

[tan top]

aww man  ,  thats a bummer 

[bakerhillpins]

Intent is not to sound like an a$$ but with all the extra labor involved in leading I don't think they would have done it that way on the production line had it not provided some specific benefit. 

[b5blue]

My  has been what I was told by very "old school" guys: Lead more closely matches the expansion and contracting characteristics of sheet metal. It totally adheres and is stable. (When done right) I asked, they (more than one) swore by it. I don't know squat I'm just repeating it and going to try it when I do mine.    Interesting subject for me.

[charger_fan_4ever]

always seen good results with

-welding up the seam so its totally sealed
- filling with a fiberglass resin mix and sanding off with 80 grit
- a coat of finish putty sanded off
- a coat of rapid fill and block sanded

[Patronus]

here was my second attempt. Its finished and telegraphing pretty bad. I will dig it out and learn to lead... 
I am thinking the Eastwood kits, which would you guys recommend, the basic or standard?

[Charger-Bodie]

The lead free solder hangs nicer,but is far more fussy about how good of a job you did tinning it. Where the regular lead has some tin in it and is somewhat forgiving on that aspect. Leading the seam is the only way to go that will not show up in the heat. Just make sure you tin it out plenty far and you will have no problems.

[b5blue]

How much "hotter" is lead free needing to work with, can I use the same propane torch?  I've been eyeballing Eastwood's sight on it. (I was concerned the extra heat may bring more of a warping issue)

[Charger-Bodie]

How much "hotter" is lead free needing to work with, can I use the same propane torch?  I've been eyeballing Eastwood's sight on it. (I was concerned the extra heat may bring more of a warping issue)

Its not really much different.

[oestermarken]

I used lead in mine, with no problems..
/Brian

[b5blue]

"LIKE BUTTER!"

[Patronus]

how much lead do you recommend for both seams?