69 C500 owners with axle packages, p.s.pump question

[hemi68charger]

Hey gang..
I'm trying to determine if a Federal pump with cooler I recently got is appropriate at all for my C500. I have an understanding that all '69 model Chargers with power steering and an axle package came with the Saginaw pump with cooler. Do all you C500 owners with a 4.10 Dana or 3.54 Dana have Saginaw pumps? I know the Daytonas were later on in the production year, so with out a doubt they would have come with a Saginaw. Of course, the 426 Hemi equipped cars all came with the Federal, but they had solid pulleys, not the 3-spoked versions on the Saginaws....

Thanks...

[moparstuart]

 you might email wayne ? his car is an 4:10 automatic car

   I only have one bad picture of his pump and i'm not sure its the origninal one ?


     farmboy36b@comcast.net(farmboy36b@comcast.net

[hemi68charger]

you might email wayne ? his car is an 4:10 automatic car

   I only have one bad picture of his pump and i'm not sure its the origninal one ?


     farmboy36b@comcast.net(farmboy36b@comcast.net

Hey Stuart..
Thanks... If that's the engine compartment for a 4.10 Dana car, it's missing it's cooler. Looks to be a Saginaw for sure, but looks to be missing it's cooler. I emailed Danny and Steve, both with C500 axle package cars as well.........

[moparstuart]

you might email wayne ? his car is an 4:10 automatic car

   I only have one bad picture of his pump and i'm not sure its the origninal one ?


     farmboy36b@comcast.net(farmboy36b@comcast.net

Hey Stuart..
Thanks... If that's the engine compartment for a 4.10 Dana car, it's missing it's cooler. Looks to be a Saginaw for sure, but looks to be missing it's cooler. I emailed Danny and Steve, both with C500 axle package cars as well.........

I know he has the original motor still sitting in his barn , so i wasnt sure if this is the original pump or if its still on the other motor ?

[69Charger500]

Hmmm, my Super Track Pak car seems to be missing that particular part...

Must be why it's so hard to steer!

[moparstuart]

 

[69Charger500]

Try this...

[moparstuart]

here is the pump in my 500  , is it correct for a standard 440 8 3/4 rearend automatic car ?

[69Charger500]

I'll see if I can find the pump chart; it breaks down all the details so you don't need to de-code, and should have pictures of each one...

[69Charger500]

Can't find the chart yet, but this one appears to be the standard 440 pump graphic...

[hemi68charger]

Can't find the chart yet, but this one appears to be the standard 440 pump graphic...

That looks to be a '68 diagram?............. ''68's for sure used the Federal pumps on everything.........

[hemi68charger]

here is the pump in my 500  , is it correct for a standard 440 8 3/4 rearend automatic car ?

Stuart, sure looks like a Federal.. Maybe they didn't have cooler on the Federals so they used the Saginaw's wth coolers early on and later put them on all B-bodies? 3.23 auto cars didn't come with a ps cooler....

[pettybird]

Where's danny when you need him?

[69Charger500]

E Series = 1969, unless I'm getting too old to remember this stuff!

[tan top]

  yes     E = 69  model year 

i'm thinking the saginaw pump

[moparstuart]

here is the pump in my 500  , is it correct for a standard 440 8 3/4 rearend automatic car ?

Stuart, sure looks like a Federal.. Maybe they didn't have cooler on the Federals so they used the Saginaw's wth coolers early on and later put them on all B-bodies? 3.23 auto cars didn't come with a ps cooler....

so would my car have most likely had a 3:23 not a 3:55 ??    I have no fender tag or build sheet ?

[hemi68charger]

here is the pump in my 500  , is it correct for a standard 440 8 3/4 rearend automatic car ?

Stuart, sure looks like a Federal.. Maybe they didn't have cooler on the Federals so they used the Saginaw's wth coolers early on and later put them on all B-bodies? 3.23 auto cars didn't come with a ps cooler....

so would my car have most likely had a 3:23 not a 3:55 ??    I have no fender tag or build sheet ?

Based on past observations, a 440 car, with an automatic and an 8 3/4 typically came with a 3.23. Now, I'm almost positive though Daytonas came with 3.55's as standard equipment. Not sure about the C500's.. I'm pretty sure they were more in line with the production R/T configurations.....

[maxwellwedge]

DB - I vote Saginaw on a 69 440.  

[69_500]

Troy I'll try to answer this the best that I can.

My car is an A36 car from the factory so yes it has the axle package but not what you were thinking. Its an 8 3/4 rear end car not a Dana, but as of right now it still has a 4.11 gear ratio on it due to a previous owner. I have not purchased a 3.55 gear set like I need to and I'm still not too motivated to swap it out for the 2.76 gears that I have laying on the floor in the garage either. Anyways my car does have P/S and it has the same pump that you have pictured as being recently purchased. I looked through photo's I have of other cars that have P/S and an axle package and if your excluding the HEMI cars then "all" of them had the same saginaw pump. I say "all" because once I started going through the photo's I have on my hard drive I could only find photo's to confirm what kind of pump on 6 cars in total. Of those 2 were A34 cars, and 4 were A36 cars. I could not find a photo of an A32 car that I had a good enough angle to say for sure what pump is on the car.

[69_500]

I would have to say that if Jim agree's then I won't try to dig out the paperwork around here and sort through it. I'd take his word.

[69_500]

Where's danny when you need him?

Danny was camping for the past 3 days and trying to keep up on the board from the Iphone but that didn't help much as I didn't drag my external hard drive with my car info on it to sort through the pictures. I know I know I should have this stuff memorized right? 

[maxwellwedge]

I would have to say that if Jim agree's then I won't try to dig out the paperwork around here and sort through it. I'd take his word.

Danny - I wouldn't be so quick to believe that guy.....He's Canadian for gods sake!  

Disco is an A32 car and has the Saginaw with cooler. I know that's later than a 500 but......

DB - See if you can grab some dates off that pump, pulley and cooler - wondering what it came off of.

[WINGMAN]

  My 500 440 auto with 3.23 8 3/4  has the saginaw pump with no cooler and a two ear metal cap.    Jay

[moparstuart]

  My 500 440 auto with 3.23 8 3/4  has the saginaw pump with no cooler and a two ear metal cap.    Jay

and the best color too   

[hemi68charger]

DB - See if you can grab some dates off that pump, pulley and cooler - wondering what it came off of.

Hey Jim..
Here's a picture of the pump.. No clue on deciphering the date code......... Part number yes, that's obvious....
Cooler:
2704 = 1972, 701st day, impossible..
2704 = 1974, 270th day, possible

Pump:
2D23 = ?

[maxwellwedge]

How about the pulley DB?

[hemi68charger]

How about the pulley DB?

Where is it? I couldn't find it anywhere....... Maybe I need to put on my spectacles?  ..........

[maxwellwedge]

Usually in the center - by where the shaft comes through.

Here is a pic... 0449   44th day of 69.

[moparstuart]

Usually in the center - by where the shaft comes through.

[maxwellwedge]

Usually in the center - by where the shaft comes through.

   

[learical1]

They say that cat Shaft is a baaad mo-fo.
(Shut your mouth!)
But I'm talkin' about Shaft.
(And we can dig it!)

[maxwellwedge]

Right On

[hemi68charger]

They say that cat Shaft is a baaad mo-fo.
(Shut your mouth!)
But I'm talkin' about Shaft.
(And we can dig it!)

Oh how the topic changes gears.......... 

[hemigeno]

ooooohhhkayyyyyy




Back on the subject...  Here's what I have gleaned from the mounds of paperwork:

>>  The diagram posted earlier shows B/RB engines with the Leece-Neville alternator, not the EED (Chrysler-built) alternator.  Chargers were not eligible for a (Sales Code F15) 65amp L/N alternator, that was more of a police/taxi application.  There was a sales code F19 "special order alternator" listed as available on Chargers, but I'd wager this week's paycheck you won't find that on very many Charger broadcast sheets.

>>  The only power steering pump listed on the engineering graphics for a '69 B-body with sales codeE86 (440hp) is the Saginaw pump, and the keyed note referenced along with Part Number 2891162 (PS oil cooler) explains which axle ratios got the pump.  The keyed note reads as follows:

NOT PART OF PWR. STRG. PUMP ASSY.
USE ON .94 PUMP W/ E31,44,55 ENG. AND 3.55 & 3.91 AXLE RATIOS - VBL
AND W/E61,63,85,86 ENG. AND 3.54,3.55,3.91,4.10 AXLE RATIOS - RW

>>  From a strict 1969 B-body perspective, Federal pumps were used on only Hemi cars (unless you get into the aforementioned Belvedere & Coronet police/taxi obscure applications).  Regardless, there was not a part number, in either the parts book or any of the engineering graphics, for a Federal power steering pump oil cooler that year.  PS pump oil coolers simply were not used in 1969 on Federal pumps, although they were quite common from '72+.


I'll gladly look at any info/documents to the contrary, but that's the way things look to me anyway...

[maxwellwedge]

I got to agree with Geno.

DB - A date off that pulley will peg the vintage of that Federal pump 100%   I'm guessing 72-73.

[hemi68charger]

I got to agree with Geno.

DB - A date off that pulley will peg the vintage of that Federal pump 100%   I'm guessing 72-73.

Hey Jim...
I forgot to check it out, but based on the numbers on the pump and cooler, I'm going with '72... I'm sending it back to Pete, he can use it. I have found a Saginaw with pump for the same amount, so I'm looking good to go... 

[Highbanked Hauler]

AHHHHHH, for me life is simple, my 500 doesn't have power steering or brakes

[472 R/T SE]

I don't know what pumps were correct for any year just that 3:55, 3:91, 3:54 & 4:10 factory cars got the ps cooler.

3:54 & deeper basically.

Maybe the paragraph in red in Geno's post says that.