daytona downforce

[r4daytona]

I'm sure someone will be able to answer this  how much downforce did the wingand nose have on the daytona? Seperate numbers or a total would be great.  Thanks
Tom

[Daytona Guy]

I'm sure someone will be able to answer this  how much downforce did the wingand nose have on the daytona? Seperate numbers or a total would be great.  Thanks
Tom

This is not an easy answer. A car sitting and a car moving has different physics involved. The faster the car moves it becomes lighter (energy moving forward). A car in the high bank turns gets heavier. If the Daytona creats too much down force it robs the car of HP. So it is an aerodynamic system creating a car that wll slip through the air, yet stay on the ground. You can create a car the weighs 4000 lbs yet when moving can be as light as a Civic, but the problem is it would handle terrible and would never stay on the track.

The nose cone adds less resistance (less drag) and adds the desired downforce needed for the front. Just adding a slippery nose with less drag can also create lift - the 18" nose design gave them the right combination of less drag and the right down force. The wing being adjustable can create very high lbs of down force depending on the pitch - early testing was tearing up rear tires - this is not nesisaraly a good thing becuase that may mean too much down force- bogging the car down. So with the nose creating the right amount of less drag and downforce - left the rear of the car "loose" - the nose and wing are a system that work together. So it's not just adding downforce - every track size, degree of the banks, length of straight of ways would determine the desired downforces. I have read 400 lbs of downforce created by the wing at a level pitch - that sounds big but taking into consideration the back end floating at high speeds, this downforce is desired. Also, the wing is creating this downforce with less drag than the regular rear spoilers being used that just reflected air creating exta drag to get these downforces. Sorry this was so long.

Dane

[myaerocars]

I know I've read several times exactly how much down force is created on each end.. I'll see if I can find it. The SAE paper written cited  that info.  Maybe the DSAC site has some of it available.

Godspeed,
JON

[Ghoste]

In other words, the figures generated in a wind tunnel under controlled and constant conditions create a specific and easily determined amount of downforce for a given "windspeed" but on the racetrack it changes continually.  Racetrack scenario would also change during a drafting state, as the fuel load lessens, as atmospheric conditions change (barometric pressure and winds), and tire adhesion and so forth?  (and that is of course not taking into changes the team makes to the aero package on the car like wing angle and such)

[Indygenerallee]

I read somewhere once that the wing applied 850 lbs of downforce now obviously that had some angle on it but at high speed 150+ MPH I could see it happening.

[BigBlockSam]

you can feel the car getting tighter to the road at speeds over 120 mph . i've felt that

[moparstuart]

you can feel the car getting tighter to the road at speeds over 120 mph . i've felt that

No way not you , 

[200MPH]

you can feel the car getting tighter to the road at speeds over 120 mph . i've felt that

me too

[nascarxx29]

The engineers SAE book had specs and drawings

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,36386.0.html
.Same info might be on the aero warriors website

[Kismgby]

you can feel the car getting tighter to the road at speeds over 120 mph . i've felt that

me too

If you own one...you've felt it...or you're a liar....     OR you haven't taken delivery yet.   Just sayin'....

[odcics2]

All your questions are answered on aerowarriors.com   Look in the Chrysler Document section. Here is an example:

[Mytur Binsdirti]

I'm sure someone will be able to answer this  how much downforce did the wingand nose have on the daytona? Seperate numbers or a total would be great.  Thanks
Tom

This is not an easy answer. A car sitting and a car moving has different physics involved. The faster the car moves it becomes lighter (energy moving forward). A car in the high bank turns gets heavier. If the Daytona creats too much down force it robs the car of HP. So it is an aerodynamic system creating a car that wll slip through the air, yet stay on the ground. You can create a car the weighs 4000 lbs yet when moving can be as light as a Civic, but the problem is it would handle terrible and would never stay on the track.

The nose cone adds less resistance (less drag) and adds the desired downforce needed for the front. Just adding a slippery nose with less drag can also create lift - the 18" nose design gave them the right combination of less drag and the right down force. The wing being adjustable can create very high lbs of down force depending on the pitch - early testing was tearing up rear tires - this is not nesisaraly a good thing becuase that may mean too much down force- bogging the car down. So with the nose creating the right amount of less drag and downforce - left the rear of the car "loose" - the nose and wing are a system that work together. So it's not just adding downforce - every track size, degree of the banks, length of straight of ways would determine the desired downforces. I have read 400 lbs of downforce created by the wing at a level pitch - that sounds big but taking into consideration the back end floating at high speeds, this downforce is desired. Also, the wing is creating this downforce with less drag than the regular rear spoilers being used that just reflected air creating exta drag to get these downforces. Sorry this was so long.

Dane

In other words:

[Highbanked Hauler]

you can feel the car getting tighter to the road at speeds over 120 mph . i've felt that

  me too, You can actually feel the car "gaining weight" over 120 ..You know its there because it is harder to steer even changing lanes its noticeable.

[BigBlockSam]

me too, You can actually feel the car "gaining weight" over 120 ..You know its there because it is harder to steer even changing lanes its noticeable.

that's cause Mopar Stu is driving with you 

[Highbanked Hauler]

me too, You can actually feel the car "gaining weight" over 120 ..You know its there because it is harder to steer even changing lanes its noticeable.

that's cause Mopar Stu is driving with you  

  OOOWWWWWWWWW          and my 140 mph runs were on half worn out Firestone redline bias ply tires

[cdr]

DOWN FORCE 

[moparstuart]

me too, You can actually feel the car "gaining weight" over 120 ..You know its there because it is harder to steer even changing lanes its noticeable.

that's cause Mopar Stu is driving with you 

hey 

[dreamcatcher]

Been there with Christine at just over 130....the faster the better it feels...of is that just me lmao   

[A383Wing]

you can feel the car getting tighter to the road at speeds over 120 mph . i've felt that

me too

me three....the faster the car goes, the easier it handles...I have been up to 135

Bryan

[moparstuart]

you can feel the car getting tighter to the road at speeds over 120 mph . i've felt that

me too

me three....the faster the car goes, the easier it handles...I have been up to 135

Bryan  mine wont go that fast  driver error   

[A383Wing]

well stu....you won't even do a burnout for us... 

Bryan

[69daytona]

Dream catcher  Had mine up to about 135 a couple of times and never noticed any difference in handling.  Of course I had already adjusted the wing some and changed to GoodYear wide oval tires.  Did not have a pitch gauge but a friend and his father who built, owned and drove SMRC Midgets put about 1/2 to 3/4 inch down angle on it.  Although the tires did not help with a dusting of snow on the road.   

[odcics2]

On the race Daytonas they achieved a no lift condition in the front and 200# of down force in the rear.   Yes - the wing could give you a lot more, but it made the car aero unbalanced and harder to drive.   Keep in mind that a "normal" Charger stock car would have over 1,200# of lift in the front and 250# or so in the rear!

[Ghoste]

Oh, I had thought they were set up for a little downforce on the front as well?

[odcics2]

The tires weren't as advanced like today. If you recall, the Daytonas were chunking the rear tires in the fall Charlotte race.  With fresh rubber they could move through the field at will, only to be slowed down when the tires would go away.   By Texas, they had it sorted out better...
Like with anything, there was a learning curve!!

[odcics2]

Here's the document that spells out the Daytona had a no lift in front and 250# down force in the rear. (See the bottom of the document.)
Written by Larry Rathgeb, I'd consider these numbers, the final ones they achieved, as being the best compromise for aero handling, drag, and tire wear for the "Daytona" race package. The 1971 race Road Runner wasn't too shabby either!  It was superior to the tunnel back/recessed grille 1968 Charger.

[Ghoste]

Most everything was superior to the tunnel back recessed grille cars wasn't it?

[odcics2]

Vintage documents don't lie!