The other day I had a guy e-mail me out of the blue asking me if I still work on or restore Mopar's. I say yes, What do you need or looking for, He sez he needs a paint job & not happy with the Ametuer paint job on his Charger now. I ask what kind of budget does he have & he seems to get very upset that I would ask such a inappropriate Question. And he wont reply back now. I thought this was a fair question. what's everybody else opinion. Should I not ask what kind of budget they have to work with? Let me know. THANKS, LEON.
I don't see anything wrong with asking what kind of budget he is on :shruggy:
I don't see anything wrong with it either. Different quality of materials, different costs.
In this world I think it was a VERY appropriate question !!!! if he can't handle a simple question just think how bad it would be doing a paint job for him.
How else can you quote the guy the for the job?
When I was shopping around for paint work years ago that was always the first question.
Well, I see both sides. If he says 35K, he might think you will charge that. It's best imo, to see the car and give a estimate. :Twocents:
Having been in similar shoes I have to agree with ACUDANUT.
I answered that "what is your budget" question and got quotes pretty close to that number. I finally started asking the shops to do estimates of a couple price ranges and options. Got way better results and was able to make a deal. Still haven't gotten that far but at least I know who will be doing my final body and paint work.
His attitude is probably landed him the current paint job. Nothing wrong with asking how much money you are willing to spend when it comes to bodywork, especially after the conversation is about fixing someone elses mistakes.... if the paint job is shit, what do you think the work under it looks like?
It's not you Leon. I still can't find a body guy to just do what I want regardless of pricing. :lol:
I don't blame the guy for refusing to give a number right out of the gate. He's probably afraid you were testing his wallet. Like you will adjust your asking price as high as he will admit that he can afford, and he doesn't want to show the cards in his hand too early. (Bear in mind that the last shop may have screwed him.)
But he shouldn't get butthurt about the question either. It's reasonable from your end because of how cheap some people expect to get work done.
Asking for a "paintjob" is almost as broad as "restoration." It's not specific enough to be useful. Does this mean you just prime & block & respray the outer skin? Does this mean you start by taking the whole car apart and installing $8000 worth of repro sheetmetal? It's probably not worthwhile to talk numbers unless you've seen the car.
I would email him and say this:
"I normally ask that kind of question because people have wildly different expectations in this business. You can pay somebody $3000 to paint a car and get a good value for the dollar. Or you can pay somebody $20,000 for a job, and they might still be giving you a good value. It all depends on how much work a car needs and how much perfection you want to buy. I'm trying to figure out what ballpark we are in. We're not discussing any final price here. I haven't even seen the car yet."
If he won't be sensible after that, forget about him. He's not ready to stop being ripped off yet. He still wants somebody to give him a low number and deliver another shitty job.
Like the other's said. I don't think people appreciate how much goes into a good paint job and what the different cost levels will look like. I was floored when I first learned and glad in the end (not at the time) to have had that lesson and chosen the route that I did. I was also asked, and then realized it was going to be multiples more than I originally thought it would.
I would reach out to him again as a courtesy. The ball is really in his court.
Maybe he's a millennial that communicates through his phone constantly and can't have a normal conversation, gets offended at everything, etc.
I am capable of doing a street rod quality paint job, I have always done my own over 45 years of building them. When I was working on my charger I had all the new sheetmetal on, floors, quarters, one apron, taillight panel and rear valance. I had a new front valence. Everything was finish ground and fitted on the work I did. Hood and trunk lid were in final coat of primer. car was completely disassembled except doors were hung and was on a rotisserie. I was so busy with work it would have taken me a year or 2 to finish body and paint. My wife suggested I hire it out to get it done. One local shop that does it on the side said $20,000 to $25,000 to finish, paint, and hang the sheetmetal. A hot rod shop in the Minneapolis area quoted $75/hr plus materials and expect around 30 grand. Seemed like a lot. I did want a totally uncompromising paint job, top and bottom, inside and out. I never seem to quite get that level myself (I really pick apart my own work) Sprung for the $75/hr shop, about labor day. He delivered it to me at thanksgiving the same year, he reinstalled the already restored and painted K frame and rear suspension so he could properly fit the sheetmetal. I did not have him go so far as to weld up edges of doors, etc. that guys do to correct factory gaps, as think this is silly. Cars remaining sheetmetal had minor bodywork and rust repair. He sandblasted the car, did the bodywork, fit the sheetmetal, and painted and buffed the car to perfection. Bottom of car and engine compartment were awesome (body color). Cost just over $30 grand. Paid him every month for work completed and had invitation to visit shop anytime except between paint and buff(I get it). I think I paid a fair price, although I will never do this quality of car again. I would recommend these guys, Straight Line Customs, if you want a high level car.
Quote from: hemi-hampton on November 28, 2018, 06:09:11 PM
The other day I had a guy e-mail me out of the blue asking me if I still work on or restore Mopar's. I say yes, What do you need or looking for, He sez he needs a paint job & not happy with the Ametuer paint job on his Charger now. I ask what kind of budget does he have & he seems to get very upset that I would ask such a inappropriate Question. And he wont reply back now. I thought this was a fair question. what's everybody else opinion. Should I not ask what kind of budget they have to work with? Let me know. THANKS, LEON.
don't think you said anything wrong , although he could read it the wrong way ,
Quote from: c00nhunterjoe
link=topic=134190.msg1664506#msg1664506 date=1543461700
His attitude is probably landed him the current paint job. Nothing wrong with asking how much money you are willing to spend when it comes to bodywork, especially after the conversation is about fixing someone elses mistakes.... if the paint job is shit, what do you think the work under it looks like?
yes that's true , just what I was thinking , need to know his budget & see the car & see what it needs ... cant ask for a quote on a paint job via email only , this guy must know this surly ... unless he is just randomly getting on line quotes then going from there :shruggy:
Quote from: ACUDANUT on November 28, 2018, 08:08:11 PM
Well, I see both sides. If he says 35K, he might think you will charge that. It's best imo, to see the car and give a estimate. :Twocents:
If he say's his budget is $35k I give him a $35k job. If he say's his budget is only $3,500 I give him a $3,500 job, SO, Doesn't really matter what he say's his budget is. You get what you pay for. LEON.
Quote from: XH29N0G on November 29, 2018, 03:36:41 AM
Like the other's said. I don't think people appreciate how much goes into a good paint job and what the different cost levels will look like. I was floored when I first learned and glad in the end (not at the time) to have had that lesson and chosen the route that I did. I was also asked, and then realized it was going to be multiples more than I originally thought it would.
I would reach out to him again as a courtesy. The ball is really in his court.
Yes, That's always one of the biggest problems, most people don't know how much time & money it takes to do a quality job. LEON.
Quote from: fizz on November 29, 2018, 09:27:20 AM
I am capable of doing a street rod quality paint job, I have always done my own over 45 years of building them. When I was working on my charger I had all the new sheetmetal on, floors, quarters, one apron, taillight panel and rear valance. I had a new front valence. Everything was finish ground and fitted on the work I did. Hood and trunk lid were in final coat of primer. car was completely disassembled except doors were hung and was on a rotisserie. I was so busy with work it would have taken me a year or 2 to finish body and paint. My wife suggested I hire it out to get it done. One local shop that does it on the side said $20,000 to $25,000 to finish, paint, and hang the sheetmetal. A hot rod shop in the Minneapolis area quoted $75/hr plus materials and expect around 30 grand. Seemed like a lot. I did want a totally uncompromising paint job, top and bottom, inside and out. I never seem to quite get that level myself (I really pick apart my own work) Sprung for the $75/hr shop, about labor day. He delivered it to me at thanksgiving the same year, he reinstalled the already restored and painted K frame and rear suspension so he could properly fit the sheetmetal. I did not have him go so far as to weld up edges of doors, etc. that guys do to correct factory gaps, as think this is silly. Cars remaining sheetmetal had minor bodywork and rust repair. He sandblasted the car, did the bodywork, fit the sheetmetal, and painted and buffed the car to perfection. Bottom of car and engine compartment were awesome (body color). Cost just over $30 grand. Paid him every month for work completed and had invitation to visit shop anytime except between paint and buff(I get it). I think I paid a fair price, although I will never do this quality of car again. I would recommend these guys, Straight Line Customs, if you want a high level car.
That is the way I usually do my work (hourly) & the way I prefer to do it. But most people/Customers don't want to do it that way. LEON.
Here's one of my main Concern because I've been through all this many times before in past 30 years. Gotta be careful what I say & choose my words carefully because people are so sensitive. For Example, A guy calls wanting a Restoration on his Mopar. Of course he can not drive it to my shop or house to look it over because it doesn't run or drive or no motor or no plates or insurance, ect, ect.. SO, I gotta fill up my gas tank, take a Saturday off to drive 60 miles to his house. Spend 2 hours looking over the rust bucket basket case. then another 2 hours chit chatting Mopar stories. I tell him this thing is pretty rough & going to cost at least $20k to restore, Paint & body work only & they say WOW, Really, that much. And I say how much were you thinking? And they say I figured 5k at most & thats my budget. I say Sorry, Cant do all that work for only $5k. And off I go & never hear from him again. Couple weeks later I go threw the same thing & a few weeks later the same thing, ect, ect. SO, Now with this last guy I say what's your budget because if he tells me $1,000.00 or something like $1k I'm going to say not Interested & think to myself not going to bother wasting my time looking at it. If the guy say's $5k or $10k+ I'll go take a look at it. LEON.
I think you answered you question here in the last replies. More conversation is needed to explain to a non-body guy that there is huge range and that they will get what they pay for. Frankly if he got pissy so quick, he is a customer best avoided anyway.
HH, Maybe there are good reasons for not doing this, but if it is the same type of question over and over again, could you head it off by having something already written out that could be past in future emails that gives the people an idea right off the bat about what the ballpark is for the 'typical' restoration or paint job. Then you could add that you are willing to discuss other options, but that the costs for doing specific things don't change so what is done will change and so will the quality of the end result. If you consider different levels of work, you could always have an amount listed that makes up the difference between what typical is and what great is. That last bit could cause trouble though.
The first person I went to ran through something like this for me and it was eye opening. They were willing to only do the top of the car (not inside, and thought the bottom was strong enough) and I was surprised by how much it would be. I then went to a second place and they would only do the whole car (it was more) and made an estimate based on their assessment which also had the underside being OK. I went with them after seeing their work, but it was close. In the end, when the bottom was stripped of paint it was full of little holes and they had to replace it. They did at the same cost but let me know it was not making them money. All was paid as work proceeded and I could visit any time. From a customer standpoint having the information presented is appreciated. Knowing someone is flexible also is appreciated.
All I am saying is, if they say 35-40k, People (not you) might take advantage of his "purse" and say, yeah " that what I was thinking" when it was really 1/4 of that.
Quote from: ACUDANUT on November 30, 2018, 02:46:54 PM
All I am saying is, if they say 35-40k, People (not you) might take advantage of his "purse" and say, yeah " that what I was thinking" when it was really 1/4 of that.
If he did say $35-$40k then I know he is serious, knows what he is talking about possibly & not totally wasting my time. I'd then look it over. SO, I would not be thinking a 1/4 of that without actually seeing it yet. BUT, I know what you mean, I know people like that & have worked for people like that. They get a bad reputation fast, always getting sued, There Business is out of Business or it keeps changing names & relocating elswhere. LEON.
I'm not an expert body guy. The last time I painted a car was back in the early 90's. It was lacquer and it didn't cost an arm and a leg. This time I wanted it done perfect and came up with what I felt was a "serious" amount I'd pay based off of my past experience. I was really off the mark for what it costs now. The guy I went with wasn't offended when I told him what my budget was because he figured out I was basing my budget on outdated knowledge and I wasn't offended when he told me what materials cost now and told me his labor charge was. Yes I paid a LOT more than I budgeted but that was due to my inexperienced knowledge. We were both able to get a feel for each other being legit because we were face to face working towards the final outcome. I know it wouldn't have been the same outcome if he asked me what I was willing to pay over a phone call.
But, I'm sure you have a lot of time wasted following dead ends that you'll never get a dime for. I guess it comes down to calling it "time spent for potential business" vs "time wasted going to look at something that didn't end in a job."
Quote from: PA Dodger on December 01, 2018, 02:09:23 PM
I'm not an expert body guy. The last time I painted a car was back in the early 90's. It was lacquer and it didn't cost an arm and a leg. This time I wanted it done perfect and came up with what I felt was a "serious" amount I'd pay based off of my past experience. I was really off the mark for what it costs now. The guy I went with wasn't offended when I told him what my budget was because he figured out I was basing my budget on outdated knowledge and I wasn't offended when he told me what materials cost now and told me his labor charge was. Yes I paid a LOT more than I budgeted but that was due to my inexperienced knowledge. We were both able to get a feel for each other being legit because we were face to face working towards the final outcome. I know it wouldn't have been the same outcome if he asked me what I was willing to pay over a phone call.
But, I'm sure you have a lot of time wasted following dead ends that you'll never get a dime for. I guess it comes down to calling it "time spent for potential business" vs "time wasted going to look at something that didn't end in a job."
For many years, many years ago when I restored old Musclecars & had my own Mopar Restoration business I did call it "time spent for potential business". Now that I got a different full time job & mostly retired from old car Restorations but may do it as a side job if I want I may call it as your words say "time wasted going to look at something that didn't end in a job". In a nutshell if this situation ever comes up again I guess I'll do it all different. Note to myself, Don't ever ask what budget is. LEON.
You could ask what his expectations are? Maaco splash n dash? Better than original? Good panel gaps, better-than-factory good, or micrometer perfect? Good enough straight panels, or laser straight? The rabbit hole goes deep........
Quote from: darbgnik on December 02, 2018, 01:23:12 AM
You could ask what his expectations are? Maaco splash n dash? Better than original? Good panel gaps, better-than-factory good, or micrometer perfect? Good enough straight panels, or laser straight? The rabbit hole goes deep........
Those are questions I would of asked but the Conversation never got that far, he abruptly/suddenly ended all conversation when he got offended I would dare ask about money. I now realize I brought that up way to early in he Conversation. Guess you gotten wait to the end to bring that up. LEON.
Hemi, I have a question. I have seen the work you have posted and it seems to be pretty high end. With the demand for people who do good work, and the amount of people willing to spend real money, why consider the low end work at all?
Quote from: c00nhunterjoe on November 28, 2018, 10:21:40 PM
His attitude is probably landed him the current paint job. Nothing wrong with asking how much money you are willing to spend when it comes to bodywork, especially after the conversation is about fixing someone elses mistakes.... if the paint job is shit, what do you think the work under it looks like?
x2
Quote from: fizz on December 03, 2018, 08:48:51 AM
Hemi, I have a question. I have seen the work you have posted and it seems to be pretty high end. With the demand for people who do good work, and the amount of people willing to spend real money, why consider the low end work at all?
It's a long complicated story. I'll make it short. Not sure what part of the country your from but here in Detroit area not a lot of demand or amount of people willing to spend real money. There is a real small group of these people in a tight nit group. I could work for a guy that works for these people but don't want to work for cash under the table. And most body shops want to pay you cash under the table. Being older with Health problems I need a job with Taxes taken out & Health Insurance. Which is about impossible to find in Detroit unless you work for a big company.
So just being honest I hate it when people ask that question. Car and jewelry salesmen say this. When they ask my budget I always tell them about 2 million or I ask if they have change for a quarter.
It says to me:
1. The price depends on how much money you think I have.
2. The work and quality you get will depend on the amount of money you spend.
Like the car salesman example, everyone pays a different price it just depends on your negotiation. Most of us in this hobby seemed to be very analytical thinking and they wanna feel like they get what they pay for based off the work required not their negotiation skill.
That being said the amount of work in every job is different. Perhaps asking what state you car is in now and what are you hoping to accomplish is a better question. Maybe throw out that a car with the body work done in a basic non premium color starts around ____$. This way they can bail if they aren't near that price range.
Quote from: hemi-hampton on December 04, 2018, 12:09:59 AM
Quote from: fizz on December 03, 2018, 08:48:51 AM
Hemi, I have a question. I have seen the work you have posted and it seems to be pretty high end. With the demand for people who do good work, and the amount of people willing to spend real money, why consider the low end work at all?
It's a long complicated story. I'll make it short. Not sure what part of the country your from but here in Detroit area not a lot of demand or amount of people willing to spend real money. There is a real small group of these people in a tight nit group. I could work for a guy that works for these people but don't want to work for cash under the table. And most body shops want to pay you cash under the table. Being older with Health problems I need a job with Taxes taken out & Health Insurance. Which is about impossible to find in Detroit unless you work for a big company.
People in Detroit have Money ? According to the "news" they have no jobs or water and push around STOLEN grocery carts. :shruggy:
Quote from: cincyboy on February 22, 2019, 03:14:20 PM
So just being honest I hate it when people ask that question. Car and jewelry salesmen say this. When they ask my budget I always tell them about 2 million or I ask if they have change for a quarter.
It says to me:
1. The price depends on how much money you think I have.
2. The work and quality you get will depend on the amount of money you spend.
Like the car salesman example, everyone pays a different price it just depends on your negotiation. Most of us in this hobby seemed to be very analytical thinking and they wanna feel like they get what they pay for based off the work required not their negotiation skill.
That being said the amount of work in every job is different. Perhaps asking what state you car is in now and what are you hoping to accomplish is a better question. Maybe throw out that a car with the body work done in a basic non premium color starts around ____$. This way they can bail if they aren't near that price range.
I'll agree with #2. Do you think the work & quality should not depend on the amount of money you spend???? :scratchchin:
I'll agree with #2. Do you think the work & quality should not depend on the amount of money you spend???? :scratchchin:
Quote from: cincyboy on February 22, 2019, 03:14:20 PM
So just being honest I hate it when people ask that question. Car and jewelry salesmen say this. When they ask my budget I always tell them about 2 million or I ask if they have change for a quarter.
It says to me:
1. The price depends on how much money you think I have.
2. The work and quality you get will depend on the amount of money you spend.
Like the car salesman example, everyone pays a different price it just depends on your negotiation. Most of us in this hobby seemed to be very analytical thinking and they wanna feel like they get what they pay for based off the work required not their negotiation skill.
That being said the amount of work in every job is different. Perhaps asking what state you car is in now and what are you hoping to accomplish is a better question. Maybe throw out that a car with the body work done in a basic non premium color starts around ____$. This way they can bail if they aren't near that price range.
SO, Lets say you ask me to come look at your car, you want it painted. I come look at it & say yeah, I can paint it. then I say nothing else, after a couple of minutes of silence you say something about price. What would you want me to say to you? LEON.
SO, Lets say you ask me to come look at your car, you want it painted. I come look at it & say yeah, I can paint it. then I say nothing else, after a couple of minutes of silence you say something about price. What would you want me to say to you? LEON.
Here's what John Balow at Musclecar Restorations in Chippewa Falls Wisconsin has to say about his pricing on his website.
"The cost of a restoration is flexible depending on your specific goals and expectations for the completed restoration. We provide a large number of paths to fit every budget"
Pretty much the same thing I been trying to say in here. :scratchchin:
Quote from: cincyboy on February 22, 2019, 03:14:20 PM
So just being honest I hate it when people ask that question When they ask my budget
It says to me:
1. The price depends on how much money you think I have.
2. The work and quality you get will depend on the amount of money you spend.
If your in the business of supplying goods or services, it gets tiring wasting time with tire kickers with champagne taste and beer pocket money, so it's best to cut to the chase so you don't waste everyone's time or try one's nerves... esp when it comes to body work and paint, your avg "enthusiast" has absolutely ZERO clue regarding material costs and the amount of labor involved... then you can have other factors like the owner wanting you to apply paint over their/others previous work, then when you explain that shit might come up thru your work because of what might be hiding under the previous work and you decline the job, they get irate, or they get jerked when you tell them no guarantee/warranty if anything happens immediately or down the road with the paint/bodywork over previous work performed by others, but you still expect to get paid in full, they get irate/jerked because they have no clue.... and now with all these ass clown car shows on TV/cable/internet the avg Joe thinks all paint jobs are quickly completed overnight, polished to perfection the next day
Quote from: DAY CLONA on February 23, 2019, 11:35:26 PM
Quote from: cincyboy on February 22, 2019, 03:14:20 PM
So just being honest I hate it when people ask that question When they ask my budget
It says to me:
1. The price depends on how much money you think I have.
2. The work and quality you get will depend on the amount of money you spend.
If your in the business of supplying goods or services, it gets tiring wasting time with tire kickers with champagne taste and beer pocket money, so it's best to cut to the chase so you don't waste everyone's time or try one's nerves... esp when it comes to body work and paint, your avg "enthusiast" has absolutely ZERO clue regarding material costs and the amount of labor involved... then you can have other factors like the owner wanting you to apply paint over their/others previous work, then when you explain that shit might come up thru your work because of what might be hiding under the previous work and you decline the job, they get irate, or they get jerked when you tell them no guarantee/warranty if anything happens immediately or down the road with the paint/bodywork over previous work performed by others, but you still expect to get paid in full, they get irate/jerked because they have no clue.... and now with all these ass clown car shows on TV/cable/internet the avg Joe thinks all paint jobs are quickly completed overnight, polished to perfection the next day
DAYCLONA get's it. pretty much what I'd like to say & I could say much more. :2thumbs: THANKS, LEON.
Quote from: darbgnik on December 02, 2018, 01:23:12 AM
You could ask what his expectations are? Maaco splash n dash? Better than original? Good panel gaps, better-than-factory good, or micrometer perfect? Good enough straight panels, or laser straight? The rabbit hole goes deep........
Problem with low end guys is they say they are good with medicore results, BUT once its done they are crying to anyone that will listen how you did a hack job on their car.
Better off not doing anything low end IMO.
The car in question. Hes had someonelse hack it up now its in primer ? paint ? how can you tell whats underneath ? Maybe just need to strip it to metal and start again ? maybe you will strip it and find some hack metal work or rust still. Noway to estimate for this. Hourly on the restorations as Leon said.
Quote from: charger_fan_4ever on February 25, 2019, 12:33:52 PM
Quote from: darbgnik on December 02, 2018, 01:23:12 AM
You could ask what his expectations are? Maaco splash n dash? Better than original? Good panel gaps, better-than-factory good, or micrometer perfect? Good enough straight panels, or laser straight? The rabbit hole goes deep........
Problem with low end guys is they say they are good with medicore results, BUT once its done they are crying to anyone that will listen how you did a hack job on their car.
Better off not doing anything low end IMO.
The car in question. Hes had someonelse hack it up now its in primer ? paint ? how can you tell whats underneath ? Maybe just need to strip it to metal and start again ? maybe you will strip it and find some hack metal work or rust still. Noway to estimate for this. Hourly on the restorations as Leon said.
EXACTLY :2thumbs:
I ran a furniture upholstery business outside of Detroit for some time. In the early days, I would waste time on the phone trying to reason with the caller on why my costs were more expensive than the t.v. stores. I quickly learned that to give a starting price amount ended the phone call quickly or taught you that they understood the value of what you do. I've also learned that the more of a struggle it is to talk to them on the first phone call, the more of a struggle it would be to deal with them during or after a job. Plenty of work out there, just pick the people who 'get it'.
Now, that being said, you ever just charge to apply the paint after the client does all the work himself?
"Now, that being said, you ever just charge to apply the paint after the client does all the work himself?"
NO, I don't think I'd want to do that, I did do that when I worked at MAACO auto painting in late 80's early 90's when I had to paint 1 car a hour or 8 cars a day. LEON.
A car an hour?....that's real quality! I take it that did not include masking!!! LOL!
Quote from: hemi-hampton on March 23, 2019, 06:07:06 PM
"Now, that being said, you ever just charge to apply the paint after the client does all the work himself?"
NO, I don't think I'd want to do that, I did do that when I worked at MAACO auto painting in late 80's early 90's when I had to paint 1 car a hour or 8 cars a day. LEON.
right on leon. I painted at Earl Scheibs in early 80,s in sunland in the san fernando valley -it varied from 3 to 5 cars a day. then i worked at a very busy carcoa shop close to corner of rosecrans and crenshaw ave. i did 8 cars a day and had to tint colors w no mixing bank. it was darn hard work but i learned how to lay out a good paint job with the old nason synthetic. as to quoting a paint job just think of someone coming to a contractor and asking HEY how much to build me a house? and getting all butt hurt when you ask about a budget. neither party wants to get taken to the cleaners so the budget and expectations have to be transparent. Ill bet your happy like me that u dont have to paint a car an hour anymore. :cheers:
Tom, Back then I sprayed Western Synthetic Acrylic Enamel single stage 99% of the time. It was $149.95 for the Presidential & $300 for the Supreme. $600 if you opted for the Base Coat Clear Coat that was called Phoenix paint. SO, I got pretty good at spraying single stage metallic which I was already use to spraying since I sprayed lots of Centari before this. Kids now adays can only spray BC/CC & no clue what it's like to spray a single stage (no clear) Mettalic enamel. LEON.
i never heard of western. but as u know synthetic turns out like glass but will burn off in 3 years out in hot sun places. yeah for the single stage metallics back in the day u just get coverage on the first two coats or so and then straighten out the metallics on last coats. still today some painters cant get the basecoat metallics and pearls to lay down right before clear coating an trowel on the clear too soon or heavy and cause them to blotch and swim around or look like 3d 36 grit paper then clear over. ive written many articles for body shop business magazine trying to pass on what ive learned. great to talk to someone who was there painting right out of the lacquer age to synthol to acrylic to base clear it was 129.95 for basic non metallics at carcoa then 189.95 for their caramic where we just added a hardner then up from there for more colors and metallics. many car dealers came to us -painting cadillacs and other better cars . $239 for a complete color change door jambs etc. the mexican tapers were incredible. :cheers: again
In the old days if you sprayed PPG's DBU base with that reactive reducer in metallic & then cleared to soon or right away & put first coat on Heavy it would definately move on you turning blotchy or zebra striped. I would then let it dry some & add a little base to clear to straighten out. You can't do that with PPG's newer DBC Base, it will wrinkle up. I sprayed lots of Lacquer in the mid 80's. LEON.
Speaking of paint. What is the best way to bring a dull/faded red truck shiny again. A clear coat would work, but I don't know about the price ??
You could rub it out with some Compound. They do make a specialty Clear just for that Purpose, Called Nano I think? LEON.
Red is the fastest fading color so make sure its not completly dead as just rubbing it out it might fade and chalk out again very soon. If you go to all the trouble to clear coat it then why not just spray a coat of PPG concept single stage.