I'm a ways from doing any paint on my car but need a little (maybe a lot) of help. I'm saving the outside of the car for a professional paint shop but I would like to do the underside, trunk, engine bay and under the vinyl top myself to save so money.
So, right now I'm just cleaning up the underside as you can see in the attached pics. There is a little old rust on some of the frame rails that will have to come off. The rest of the underbody is a combination of POR15, EDP from AMD, and bare steel. I've been checking some welds to make sure they are good and patching up some screw holes. Then I will need at least a week to grind down all the welds. I've been using wire brushes on a 1/2 drill to scrape off rust and old paint and places where the weld heat blistered the EDP on back side of welds.
So... there becomes a time when I need to start preping for primer/paint. I read thru B5blue's "painters please help" thread and that had a lot of info. I would like to paint the underside body color (also trunk, engine bay.) The color will be F5 which is listed as Medium Green Poly. What does the "poly" mean?? Is this a metalic color?? I don't remember my old F5 charger being metalic but it might have had a "semi" metallic paint :shruggy:
Up till now I have used PPG Shop-Line 2k epoxy primer for the top of the car.
I won't be able to blast but can reach a lot of areas for sanding. So where to start, where to start..........
"Poly-urethane"? I would recommend priming the bottom too. X2 coats. Since you have it nice and upside down I'd scratch it in 220g and 400g and then mask it off at the pinch welds to break the paint line. I've personally never done a shiny-bottom car, but I would imagine its the same. 'Cept cutting and buffing...
Quote from: Patronus on August 19, 2014, 04:36:25 PM
"Poly-urethane"? I would recommend priming the bottom too. X2 coats. Since you have it nice and upside down I'd scratch it in 220g and 400g and then mask it off at the pinch welds to break the paint line. I've personally never done a shiny-bottom car, but I would imagine its the same. 'Cept cutting and buffing...
That's a good point, I've always wanted the bottom body color buuuuuttttt... for a street car, maybe it's not the best idea. After all some of it will be undercoated (at least the wheel wells.) But if it's not painted body color then what is it painted, black, grey, puce???
Oh, and here's another question, there are lots of nooks and crannies that I can imagine will be impossible to spray like inside the areas in the rear spring shackle supports. What do I do with those, brush??
I used a rust encapsulator from Eastwood. However you can get coverage the better. Most of my panels/frame rails were replaced though. And as a driver we painted it a satin black on the bottom and inside so it would be easy touch up.
Mitch ,
can i stop you there , just noticed you put frame connectors in, ? when and how did you do this ,reason I'm asking is you can open a can of worms , like your front putting these in without car sitting on its wheels weight distribution to shell , if you havnt done so , can i get you to hang doors on to check gaps , etc ,
if you have doe this already just ignore my comments
also , would you think about adding the torque box's front and rear, will make handle ,
for underside , paint over deadner and such like heavy fuels thread in wheel arches , the rest of floor for a car intended to be driven , body deadner and satin black,
the way this car is going to turn out, no one is going spend too much attention to the underside ,
Quote from: fy469rtse on August 19, 2014, 08:01:29 PM
Mitch ,
can i stop you there , just noticed you put frame connectors in, ? when and how did you do this ,reason I'm asking is you can open a can of worms , like your front putting these in without car sitting on its wheels weight distribution to shell , if you havnt done so , can i get you to hang doors on to check gaps , etc ,
if you have doe this already just ignore my comments
\
Actually, I had tacked the frame rails in place, a while back, while the car was setting on blocks level, etc. I actually had stitch welded them in and was doing such a sh..tty job that I stopped till I could get the car flipped. I did some checks after they were put in, moved the blocks around to different points under the front suspension areas. If fact all the work I did on fixing the droopy nose problem were done with the frame rail extensions in place. Every time the door gaps did not change. If you look back thru my first thread you can find an obscure reference to my replacement of the
inner rockers. I made my own since AMD had not produced them yet. I actually made them out of 14 or 16 GA metal so they are about twice as strong an the stock ones. I think this really helped keep things from bending as I added things and moved the old girl around. In fact when I put the car on the rotisserie I kept the doors on and the gaps didn't change more that a MM when it was in the air. This car is stiff!!
Quote from: fy469rtse on August 19, 2014, 08:07:28 PM
also , would you think about adding the torque box's front and rear, will make handle ,
for underside , paint over deadner and such like heavy fuels thread in wheel arches , the rest of floor for a car intended to be driven , body deadner and satin black,
the way this car is going to turn out, no one is going spend too much attention to the underside ,
Let me grind on you thoughts for a while. Tomorrow is an off day for me (8:00pm right now here in Houston), got to get a gas bottle refill, lunch with some friends etc. As for torque boxes, I thought my welding days were close to over!! And yes, most will ignore the bottom, but I was going to use that as practice to get the trunk and then the engine bay right.
good , i would to hate to have not said anything and see you have any more issues than needed with rebuilding this car.
paint the underside of car yourself mitch, any thing you do will be a whole lot better than the factory ever did,
mine body deadner and satin black , because i intend to drive it,
vinyl top not that hard if you take your time, year one has the two tone original green boar grain for these, google for pro's tips on install , lots of video's on you tube for help
car is looking great , :2thumbs:
I usually go for black on the bottom and inner wheel wells. Usually chassis saver or something nasty from Eastwood. I use foam brushes and this cool foam roller from the Depot. Spraying that stuff is harsh.. :Twocents:
I actually like the idea of brushing the bottom, just because there are so many hard to reach places. The only problem I see is where to stop when I reach the front frame rails. Part of these are underneath and part may be considered the engine bay :shruggy: :shruggy:
You can spray the underside. That's obviously what you want and because of that I think you will regret t if you don't paint it. As for the nooks and crannies, just as just the fan knob of the gun to a dot(very small spray pattern) and turn the pressure down. It can be done and cars can be driven with painted undersides. The contrast of all the parts will look great with f5 paint too. Go for it!
Just doing a little checking, $202 for a set of front and rear torque box plates from Mancini. Really worth it for a street/cruiser?? Spent a lot already and I'm starting to feel the pinch.
Quote from: Charger-Bodie on August 19, 2014, 10:45:16 PM
You can spray the underside. That's obviously what you want and because of that I think you will regret t if you don't paint it. As for the nooks and crannies, just as just the fan knob of the gun to a dot(very small spray pattern) and turn the pressure down. It can be done and cars can be driven with painted undersides. The contrast of all the parts will look great with f5 paint too. Go for it!
Wouldn't take much to tip me in that direction!!
Quote from: green69rt on August 19, 2014, 10:47:16 PM
Quote from: Charger-Bodie on August 19, 2014, 10:45:16 PM
You can spray the underside. That's obviously what you want and because of that I think you will regret t if you don't paint it. As for the nooks and crannies, just as just the fan knob of the gun to a dot(very small spray pattern) and turn the pressure down. It can be done and cars can be driven with painted undersides. The contrast of all the parts will look great with f5 paint too. Go for it!
Wouldn't take much to tip me in that direction!!
Make it how "you" want it! There's no regret in that. Just a little more work. And what I always figure is if it does eventually get chipped and worn, freshen t up at that time with undercoating.
I always make my own torque boxes, couple of dollars for plate, have used the cardboard temp plates from my first car so many times now,
not hard with a folder and your skills mitch , few bucks saved there and here ,
dont worry we all feel the pinch with these cars, my paint blew out and stopped a lot of the work after that , trying to reassemble everything i went to touch needed money or new parts
Don't be confused by the word "poly" when it comes to your primers . Urathane and polyurethane are the same thing . The words get tossed around an switched quite a bit in the paint world. Poly means multiple and is more less referring to the chemical make up the product, nothing to really worry about . What you do not want is polyester primer , this is more or less sprayable body filler. Use that for your body work, which needs to be sealed with a Urathane primer/sealer before paint.
220 grit is fine for surface prep. The biggest thing to pay attention to is that the surface is clean. A good degreeser is a must ! As for the tiny spaces , as mentioned before just adjust the spray patter, you should have no problem getting into any of the spaces especially with the car on a rotisserie.
I would be using an epoxy not a Urathane primer on the bottom . You can spray the epoxy one day and then come back and spray the color the next without scuffing the finish . Most epoxy can be recoated up 36 hours later with out a problem. Your Urathane primer sealer must be used in a wet on wet application or else it need to scuffed before top coat is applied .
Quote from: Canadian1968 on August 20, 2014, 07:22:00 AM
Don't be confused by the word "poly" when it comes to your primers . Urathane and polyurethane are the same thing . The words get tossed around an switched quite a bit in the paint world. Poly means multiple and is more less referring to the chemical make up the product, nothing to really worry about . What you do not want is polyester primer , this is more or less sprayable body filler. Use that for your body work, which needs to be sealed with a Urathane primer/sealer before paint.
220 grit is fine for surface prep. The biggest thing to pay attention to is that the surface is clean. A good degreeser is a must ! As for the tiny spaces , as mentioned before just adjust the spray patter, you should have no problem getting into any of the spaces especially with the car on a rotisserie.
I would be using an epoxy not a Urathane primer on the bottom . You can spray the epoxy one day and then come back and spray the color the next without scuffing the finish . Most epoxy can be recoated up 36 hours later with out a problem. Your Urathane primer sealer must be used in a wet on wet application or else it need to scuffed before top coat is applied .
So...after all the weld touchup, and wire brushing, etc; scuff everything with 220 or 250 grit, wipe with degreaser, shoot epoxy primer, wait 30 minutes or 6 hours (??) shoot another coat of primer, next day(12-16 hours later) shoot color, wait 30-40 minutes shoot second coat of color, have a glass of wine ;D
Quote from: Canadian1968 on August 20, 2014, 07:22:00 AM
Don't be confused by the word "poly" when it comes to your primers . Urathane and polyurethane are the same thing . The words get tossed around an switched quite a bit in the paint world. Poly means multiple and is more less referring to the chemical make up the product, nothing to really worry about . What you do not want is polyester primer , this is more or less sprayable body filler. Use that for your body work, which needs to be sealed with a Urathane primer/sealer before paint.
220 grit is fine for surface prep. The biggest thing to pay attention to is that the surface is clean. A good degreeser is a must ! As for the tiny spaces , as mentioned before just adjust the spray patter, you should have no problem getting into any of the spaces especially with the car on a rotisserie.
I would be using an epoxy not a Urathane primer on the bottom . You can spray the epoxy one day and then come back and spray the color the next without scuffing the finish . Most epoxy can be recoated up 36 hours later with out a problem. Your Urathane primer sealer must be used in a wet on wet application or else it need to scuffed before top coat is applied .
I totally agree with the exeption that , I would not wait until the next day to spray color unless its cool when your spraying. You can wait, no doubt. I just would rather get on it earlier in the window .
As for your question about your paint color being"poly". That was a term back in the day that means metallic . And, yeas your f5 paint is metallic . A very nice medium green metallic .
Quote from: Charger-Bodie on August 20, 2014, 07:55:55 PM
As for your question about your paint color being"poly". That was a term back in the day that means metallic . And, yeas your f5 paint is metallic . A very nice medium green metallic .
I thought so, my first new car was a 69 RT and IIRC it was F5 and I thought was a metallic. Thanks for the info. What did you think of my reply a few back about the timing of the different coats when painting the bottom??
Your times are to long . First coat of epoxy, once it has flashed off you can put on your second coat should be no more than 10 maybe 15 mins . Check the recoat time for your epoxy . The last epoxy I used had a 36 hour window. As for your color, I think I missed if you said you are using a single stage or base clear. If just a single stage sime time frame as your epoxy about 10 mins between coats should be fine .
Quote from: Canadian1968 on August 20, 2014, 11:24:16 PM
Your times are to long . First coat of epoxy, once it has flashed off you can put on your second coat should be no more than 10 maybe 15 mins . Check the recoat time for your epoxy . The last epoxy I used had a 36 hour window. As for your color, I think I missed if you said you are using a single stage or base clear. If just a single stage sime time frame as your epoxy about 10 mins between coats should be fine .
Quote from: green69rt on August 20, 2014, 09:55:51 PM
Quote from: Charger-Bodie on August 20, 2014, 07:55:55 PM
As for your question about your paint color being"poly". That was a term back in the day that means metallic . And, yeas your f5 paint is metallic . A very nice medium green metallic .
I thought so, my first new car was a 69 RT and IIRC it was F5 and I thought was a metallic. Thanks for the info. What did you think of my reply a few back about the timing of the different coats when painting the bottom??
:yesnod:
Quote from: green69rt on August 20, 2014, 07:31:37 AM
So...after all the weld touchup, and wire brushing, etc; scuff everything with 220 or 250 grit, wipe with degreaser, shoot epoxy primer, wait 30 minutes or 6 hours (??) shoot another coat of primer, next day(12-16 hours later) shoot color, wait 30-40 minutes shoot second coat of color, have a glass of wine ;D
Again, thanks for all the help. I'll try again in my own words...
scuff everything with 220 or 250 grit, wipe with degreaser, shoot epoxy primer, wait 15 minutes and shoot another coat of primer (which is probably about the time it would take me to clean up the gun and mix another cup of primer ), next day(12-16 hours later??) shoot color, wait 10-15 minutes shoot second coat of color. Now what about a sealer??
When I was priming before I used about 5% medium reducer to make it flow even, 10% seemed too thin and gave me some runs. Given the Houston heat maybe a slow reducer this time or none at all?? If I start this process in the morning I could possibly shoot the primer in the morning cooness and the color in the afternoon but it gets around 95 then.
And I was intending to use single stage for this car.
Edit: just checked the data sheet for DP50 and it says 10-15 min between coats then 60 minutes to topcoat over two coats of DP50.
Sealer between primer and paint. Were you thinking of cutting and buffing the paint after? Being metallic I would do base clear.. At least on the body...you could do the underside in SS just to check it out, but..base clear would be my :Twocents:
Quote from: Patronus on August 21, 2014, 01:36:36 PM
Sealer between primer and paint. Were you thinking of cutting and buffing the paint after? Being metallic I would do base clear.. At least on the body...you could do the underside in SS just to check it out, but..base clear would be my :Twocents:
I intend to do the underside, trunk, engine bay in single stage with no buffing, etc. Maybe a small amount of sanding on the engine bay between color coats. I intend to take the car to a paint shop to have the topside done. So my work will be with SS.
Your a glutton for punishment mitch :brickwall:, engine bay base colour ,clear coat, last coat glossy coat, dont touch again,
when you lift your hood , i will be looking at the engine and detail work, that paint will be a hundred times better than the factory ever did :2thumbs:
I'd have to agree.. Even a crappy clear is way better than a nice SS..unless your gonna work it...and in your case, that green metallic.. You'll be much happier with b/c. Besides, you got it upside friggin down mang! Turn it sideways when you spray and you'll have near perfect results.
Thinking, thinking, thinking :scratchchin:
If it were a solid color I'd say single stage because it really is more durable than clear, but with a mettalic color such as this I'd say base clear. Much easier to lay the mettalics evenly when you don't need you try for gloss at the same time.
A little confused now. Let's just talk about the underside first. BC/CC seems like real overkill down there. I just want protection and, really it's just a personal preference to have the underside in body color. Goeff's suggestion of using flat back sounds OK just not what I really want. trunk and passenger compartment - same. I forgot to mention doing the roof, since it will have a vinyl top, I thought adding a paint layer under the vinyl was prudent and SS would be enough.
So, all the discussion seem to be around the engine bay. It seems that the BC/CC system is the preference for the engine bay and thus under the hood. If the engine bay is BC/CC then I may just push that the engine bay into the paint shop and stop at the primer level.
Am I getting closer to a plan??
Really the only alternative I see to this is to do everything BC/CC. Where do you stop?
I will be using single stage for underside and inside of the car including the trunk.
Engine bay and outside will receive paint and clear including wet sand an buff.
I will paint the underside of my car since i will be spraying the undercoat on. The result of spraying the undercoat is much better then when you brush it on.
You cant however cover every spot or corner with the undercoat. And the spots that you wont cover will look much nicer when body color shows trough instead of primer/sealer.
I know some guys say that it is "overrestored" this way since it only the underside, but I'm sure i would regret it if i did'nt do it this way.
I will mask of where the rockers meet the floorpans and at the firewall/floorpan seam.
After paint and undercoat are on I will mask off the entire underside of the car so I dont get overspray on the nice black undercoat later on when I paint the outside and the engine bay.
It will require some extra work, but I'm sure the result will pay off.
Just follow the tech sheets for the product your using. The epoxy's tech sheet will tell you how to correctly prep the bare metal (and what gritt paper to use on the metal) and how long you have to topcoat with color without having to scuff the epoxy.
I myself will be using Chassis Saver which can be topcoated if scuffed properly (as per the tech sheet).
Quote from: Dreamcar on August 22, 2014, 06:52:35 AM
Just follow the tech sheets for the product your using. The epoxy's tech sheet will tell you how to correctly prep the bare metal (and what gritt paper to use on the metal) and how long you have to topcoat with color without having to scuff the epoxy.
Yeah, I finally figured out to look on the web at the data sheets. Just lazy for not doing it first thing.
Quote from: green69rt on August 19, 2014, 10:45:39 PM
Just doing a little checking, $202 for a set of front and rear torque box plates from Mancini. Really worth it for a street/cruiser?? Spent a lot already and I'm starting to feel the pinch.
Ok, I was having an attack of cheap!! Everyone seems to think torque boxes are worth the effort, so I added them. Now was the time to do it easily. Just for those who haven't seen what they look like I have added a couple of pics (1 and 2) of how they look when you get them from Car tool.
Pic 3 is me starting fit up. Lots of shaving, bending etc to make it fit really good.
Pic 4 is installed.
The first thing noticed was hardcore valid metal work.
What really brought on the respect was the hatchet
on the bench next to the parts.
Awesome precision hatchet work. :cheers:
I sure am envious of the rotisserie. I don't recall, have you done the lower radiator support?...Did we talk you out of the single-stage yet? Lookin great tho! :coolgleamA:
Quote from: Patronus on September 10, 2014, 07:45:56 PM
I sure am envious of the rotisserie. I don't recall, have you done the lower radiator support?...Did we talk you out of the single-stage yet? Lookin great tho! :coolgleamA:
No radiator support. I'm kinda running out of energy for making more repairs. I want to get on to paint!!
Still SS for the bottom, but I gave up on SS for the engine bay, that will be BC/CC. All the advice I got here drove that decision :yesnod:. SS for the trunk.
Quote from: twodko on September 10, 2014, 07:41:53 PM
The first thing noticed was hardcore valid metal work.
What really brought on the respect was the hatchet
on the bench next to the parts.
Awesome precision hatchet work. :cheers:
Never know when you'll need to take a wild swing at something to get it to fit!!
Myself I'd epoxy the entire underneath and then use spray-on bedliner kit.
BTW you can get spray wand that attached to undercoating gun and you can reach inside frame rails, etc.
very nice work mitch,
that car is going to be tight, love the metal work on this car , its brand new :lol:, i think you have replaced nearly every piece of sheet metal now,
that car is going to drive nicer than anything you remember,
yes please get to paint , still waiting for you to catch up , no not really , cold winter here lack of funds etc
Quote from: Silver R/T on September 10, 2014, 09:04:09 PM
Myself I'd epoxy the entire underneath and then use spray-on bedliner kit.
BTW you can get spray wand that attached to undercoating gun and you can reach inside frame rails, etc.
I like the idea of the wand to get inside the frames, etc. I know that as I went along I stripped and painted everything I could reach but welding the panels to the frames has to scorch and burn the paint and leave the metal open to attack inside where I can't see.
Eastwood makes products for coating the inside, comes with a straw to get in there. I think a shiny bottom car would be sick... Especially the green..
I'm a little late to the party, just my two cents here.
You are doing a damn FINE job on that car, the underside is beautiful. If it were mine, and it's not, I could not bring myself to slather it in undercoating or bedliner coating. My vote is paint. :yesnod:
I've had them both ways, and to be honest I think it's harder to keep an undercoated car cleaner than one that's painted.
The dirt accumulates mainly in the wheelhouses. The underside, floors, etc of the car actually stay pretty clean. Of course, it also depends on what kind of roads you're driving on.
A little wipedown with a wet rag, cleaner, or detailer & stuff and it comes clean in no time. Can't really do that with a rough undercoated or bedliner textured surface. For that it's spray on some cleaner & hose it off. This creates two more problems because you can't really dry it off under there because of the rough surface and also water gets everywhere and stays in areas where you can't get it out.
I see you have some parts with different coatings, including POR-15 which is very hard to scuff. Look into their Self-Etching Primer. It's designed to go over cured POR-15 without sanding. Read the tech sheets. You can also apply paint over it. Underside on my '69 was a combination of PPG epoxy and POR-15. I simply scuffed the epoxied areas & applied the POR-15 Self Etch to the POR-15 areas. It's held up excellent.
SS here as well for the floorpans and inside the trunk. Under the hood & jambs, trunk underside, etc was done in BC/CC. There are some good break-off areas to get this done (firewall pinchweld, etc). Although my car is a solid color this could also work for metallics.
When painting the outside of the car I gave the roof just one coat of base & one coat of clear, just for protection. I did not want to leave it just primer. The rest of the car got 3 coats of base & 4 coats of clear, I just stayed away from the roof after the single coats.
Keep up the great work, again the car looks fantastic & you are doing a fine job! :cheers:
Thanks Bill, what you described is close to my plan. The only question I had was what process to use to coat the POR15. Under the car is a combo of POR15, bare metal, EDP (from AMD) and maybe some overspray epoxy primer when I did the top parts. Since I got it on the rotisserie, scuffing the POR15 got a LOT(!!!) easier so that's how I will start. I do have to sand and clean the bare metal so I was just going to continue over the POR15. Then a couple coats of epoxy primer. I have heard about the self etching primer but was worried about how the PPG paint would react to it so was going to stick with the PPG epoxy primer.
Quote from: green69rt on September 14, 2014, 08:18:28 AM
Thanks Bill, what you described is close to my plan. The only question I had was what process to use to coat the POR15. Under the car is a combo of POR15, bare metal, EDP (from AMD) and maybe some overspray epoxy primer when I did the top parts. Since I got it on the rotisserie, scuffing the POR15 got a LOT(!!!) easier so that's how I will start. I do have to sand and clean the bare metal so I was just going to continue over the POR15. Then a couple coats of epoxy primer. I have heard about the self etching primer but was worried about how the PPG paint would react to it so was going to stick with the PPG epoxy primer.
You can use PPG epoxy primer over the bare metal, that's great stuff. For the POR-15, based on experience I would use their self-etching primer.
Check out this thread, shows how I painted the underside of my '69. The black parts are all POR-15:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,18080.0.html
My undercarriage was no way near as nicely prepped as yours. POR-15 is a b*tch to scuff. I went over the POR-15 with their recommended cleaner, then the self-etching primer, then Omni single stage to save a few bucks. Omni was crappy stuff, but it did the job. I've had no peeling or adhesion issues. POR-15 says you can go over their self-etching primer with "any paint".
Quote from: bill440rt on September 15, 2014, 02:50:39 PM
Quote from: green69rt on September 14, 2014, 08:18:28 AM
Thanks Bill, what you described is close to my plan. The only question I had was what process to use to coat the POR15. Under the car is a combo of POR15, bare metal, EDP (from AMD) and maybe some overspray epoxy primer when I did the top parts. Since I got it on the rotisserie, scuffing the POR15 got a LOT(!!!) easier so that's how I will start. I do have to sand and clean the bare metal so I was just going to continue over the POR15. Then a couple coats of epoxy primer. I have heard about the self etching primer but was worried about how the PPG paint would react to it so was going to stick with the PPG epoxy primer.
You can use PPG epoxy primer over the bare metal, that's great stuff. For the POR-15, based on experience I would use their self-etching primer.
Check out this thread, shows how I painted the underside of my '69. The black parts are all POR-15:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,18080.0.html
My undercarriage was no way near as nicely prepped as yours. POR-15 is a b*tch to scuff. I went over the POR-15 with their recommended cleaner, then the self-etching primer, then Omni single stage to save a few bucks. Omni was crappy stuff, but it did the job. I've had no peeling or adhesion issues. POR-15 says you can go over their self-etching primer with "any paint".
I do have some of POR15's self etching primer, just never used it. The area covered in POR15 is very confined, under the trunk floor, rear fender wells and rear frame rails. Maybe that's the way to go. If I use that then the PPG SS over that it will hold up :shruggy:
Quote from: Patronus on September 12, 2014, 09:08:23 AM
Eastwood makes products for coating the inside, comes with a straw to get in there. I think a shiny bottom car would be sick... Especially the green..
Looks like using the eastwood stuff inside the frame rails etc will be a first step. Just ordered two cans to cover the frame rails and the rockers..
Found a new toy. When I was in the Navy, these were used to clean stuff off the ship hulls. Stuff like rust, barnacles, old paint. Got one the other day to use cleaning up some old brick that had mortar on it. Then I thought "why not try it on the Charger?" I used it on the old sections of frame and it did a pretty good job. It got the rust off down to a very thin film, then I just sprayed it with phosphoric acid and was able to wipe the rest off. It's called a needle scaler. I tried it on the POR15 I have on the bottom and it didn't touch it. Didn't do much on the EDP or other primer under there. I don't know if I would use it on sheet metal that you want a nice finish on, it might leave dimples.
I can't wait to see some color on this car.
Talked to the guy at the PPG store about a sealer for the primer, his advice is to just use the primer with about 10% reducer added to the mix. Does this sound right? I looked at the web site and there is a acrylic sealer and a 2k sealer available. The final topcoat says it is compatible with either but no data sheet says anything about using the primer as a sealer :shruggy:
Depends, what kinda primer are you using? DP can double as a primer or thinned more for sealer. :scratchchin:
Quote from: hemi-hampton on September 23, 2014, 02:45:02 PM
Depends, what kinda primer are you using? DP can double as a primer or thinned more for sealer. :scratchchin:
Can says JP375 Gray epoxy primer.
What brand? who makes it?
If we are just talking about the undercarriage & a driver, no showcar just epoxy prime 2 coats & paint your single stage. all in the same day, no sanding of epoxy or between coats required, spray wet on wet & call it done. Ship it. LEON.
DP primer can be mixed with a reducer to be used as a sealer. Mix ratio is 2:1:1/2.
http://www.custom-aerosol.com/pdf/ppg-dplf-epoxy-primer-product-sheet.pdf
If you want the show car look you can do it this way, 3 coats primer surfacer, spend a week sanding every little crack & crevise, Seal with epoxy, paint BC/CC. I had to prime & sand & prime & sand twice on this car & spent 2 weeks sanding undercarriage primer it was so rust pitted but saved the original floors. LEON.
Quote from: hemi-hampton on September 23, 2014, 04:12:08 PM
If we are just talking about the undercarriage & a driver, no showcar just epoxy prime 2 coats & paint your single stage. all in the same day, no sanding of epoxy or between coats required, spray wet on wet & call it done. Ship it. LEON.
this is what I had thought to do then as I was reading thru some notes here I heard about sealer. So for undercarriage the sealer is an extra step that I don't need. I like that. The primer is PPG and it says Shopline. Sounds like their low cost paint maybe :shruggy:
I!ve already spent about 20 hours sanding and scraping the bottom, fingers really sore!
By the way, bottom of your car looks really nice.
Some sealers or primers double as both or can be used either way but not all of them. SO, Depends on what your using & what you want & expectations of quality. I might of used Black Single stage on the Undercarriage of that Black 70 T/A Challenger. Can't remember, that was back in late 1990's 15+ years ago but I usually use Single stage on undercarriages if solid color. DP epoxy has a window of 7 days before it has to be sanded if I remember right but I don't wait 7 days & will sand it after 24 hours. Polyurethane Imron best paint for undercarriage in my opinion. LEON.
Have been rereading threads on paint and looked at the stuff available. Is there A preference of enamel over urethane for the metallic color I'll be spraying. Is either easier for a novice?
Well, I just had to sh#t or get off the pot. So here it is...
Pic #1 two coats of epoxy primer (or at least my attempt to do two coats.)
Pic #2 two coats of color (ditto.)
I really like the color, it really takes me back to my original car.
Edit: When I posted this I saw the spot on the driver side tail pipe hanger and thought "crap", so I rushed out to the garage, it's just a light reflection, paint is fine.
Don't forget to cut the trunk drain plug holes. Optional but looks more original that way. The paint almost looks like the green DP40. Congrats. LEON.
Quote from: hemi-hampton on September 30, 2014, 09:29:18 PM
Don't forget to cut the trunk drain plug holes. Optional but looks more original that way. The paint almost looks like the green DP40. Congrats. LEON.
Actually the biggest hole will be the gas tank fill line, but that's for another day. I've forgotten how much I liked my old car, looking at the color brings back a lot of memories.
Mitch that looks amazing, nice colour , your hard work shows ,
:2thumbs:
It looks great- much better than black
And for those wondering why I taped and papered all the areas, it was more for myself as a test than really necessary. Over spray, at this point, would just be sanded off. I wanted to see what it took to do a good mask job. Not too bad but it is another step and should be planned for. when you plan to paint. This took about a three hours.
I have to say that the hardest parts to shoot where inside of the trunk drop off pieces (extensions), I just could not get a good angle with the gun. I ended up painting then with a brush!!
Looks great.
I'm gonna do the same as you did.
Are you going to put undercoating over it?
Quote from: six-tee-nine on October 03, 2014, 03:03:18 AM
Looks great.
I'm gonna do the same as you did.
Are you going to put undercoating over it?
I plan to under coat at least the wheel wells. Beyond that, who knows? They need it due to things being thrown up by the tires.
Mitch are you confident to spray your interior, boot area and maybe your engine bay,
Will cut down on the cost for beater to do it, can go in as a roller also , with most of your suspension reinstalled,
Rear end at least , I think what you have done is better than the factory ever did,
Looking for your thread on engine build ?
Quote from: fy469rtse on November 12, 2014, 04:17:01 AM
Mitch are you confident to spray your interior, boot area and maybe your engine bay,
Will cut down on the cost for beater to do it, can goes in as a roller also , with most of your suspension reinstalled,
Rear end at least , I think what you have done is better than the factory ever did,
Looking for your thread on engine build ?
I've talked to another resto shop and he advised me not to paint the boot (trunk to us US folks), the engine bay or inside the roof. He siad any work they had to do to the outside of the car, in those areas, would mean they need to paint them anyway. Besides, most folks on here advise me to do the engine bay in BC/CC. SInce I don't want to get into that job, I'm going to let the beater do it.
I do plan to shoot the passenger compartment, then put to car on its suspension so it can go to the shop as a roller. I still have a tiny bit of filler work to do on the outside but I will probably let the paint shop do the surfacer/blocking. While it's away I can work the grill and dash. The shop is only about a mile from my house so I can almost walk there to check out progress!
Quote from: green69rt on November 12, 2014, 08:05:02 AM
Quote from: fy469rtse on November 12, 2014, 04:17:01 AM
Mitch are you confident to spray your interior, boot area and maybe your engine bay,
Will cut down on the cost for beater to do it, can goes in as a roller also , with most of your suspension reinstalled,
Rear end at least , I think what you have done is better than the factory ever did,
Looking for your thread on engine build ?
I've talked to another resto shop and he advised me not to paint the boot (trunk to us US folks), the engine bay or inside the roof. He siad any work they had to do to the outside of the car, in those areas, would mean they need to paint them anyway. Besides, most folks on here advise me to do the engine bay in BC/CC. SInce I don't want to get into that job, I'm going to let the beater do it.
I do plan to shoot the passenger compartment, then put to car on its suspension so it can go to the shop as a roller. I still have a tiny bit of filler work to do on the outside but I will probably let the paint shop do the surfacer/blocking. While it's away I can work the grill and dash. The shop is only about a mile from my house so I can almost walk there to check out progress!
Is that the shop Charlie was talking about?
No, I went to the shop that Charlie told me about and he is not doing restorations anymore (at least not now). He said his collision business is keeping him busy. The shop I'm looking at is called South Coast Paint and Body. They don't have a wed site, just a guy and some hired guns doing what they like to do. Small shop, maybe 6 guys and they do mostly paint and body, they hire out other stuff. I'm going to give them a try.
Daniel, the owner, even offered to send his guys to my house to do some of the work, just so he wouldn't have to jam my car into his shop (seems full all the time.)
I did paint my underside partially yesterday, and am I wrong if I say that it is difficult sh*t?
So much freaking corners and small spaces you need to look out all the time. Keep your spray gun at the right distance, see you get an even layer of paint in every place... Id did turn out good but if you wnat good results its not a 5 min. job.
I dare to say that painting a flat straight surface is easier than this. Or am I greatly mistaken? Still learning as I go....
Wich brings me to my next point : Green R/T why dont you give it a shot and paint it yourself?
I think you did a great job on the underside so why not try it. Build yourself a paint booth with plastic sheet and wood put some fans and filters in it to create a downdraft to get rid of the mist and spray it.... If you take your time and do a correct cut and buff afterwards you might be surprised what you come up with.
A shop that has a ton of Insurance work to do might rush trough things wich wont Always lead to good results and happy customers.....
Quote from: six-tee-nine on November 12, 2014, 02:20:53 PM
I did paint my underside partially yesterday, and am I wrong if I say that it is difficult sh*t?
So much freaking corners and small spaces you need to look out all the time. Keep your spray gun at the right distance, see you get an even layer of paint in every place... Id did turn out good but if you wnat good results its not a 5 min. job.
I dare to say that painting a flat straight surface is easier than this. Or am I greatly mistaken? Still learning as I go....
Wich brings me to my next point : Green R/T why dont you give it a shot and paint it yourself?
I think you did a great job on the underside so why not try it. Build yourself a paint booth with plastic sheet and wood put some fans and filters in it to create a downdraft to get rid of the mist and spray it.... If you take your time and do a correct cut and buff afterwards you might be surprised what you come up with.
A shop that has a ton of Insurance work to do might rush trough things wich wont Always lead to good results and happy customers.....
Yes the bottom was a b*tch. If I had to do it again I would think twice. Next is the passenger compartment and it looks just as hard plus there is less maneuvering room inside the body.
As far as doing the outside, I actually thought about it but my plan calls for shipping the car off to do the outside while I work the grill and dash. Only so many hours in the day and I really want the progress to move forward. I want to drive this car before my teeth fall out :lol:
Mitch you have the perfect tool to position the car ,
On its side standing up through door opening, what ever you do from this point will be better than it had originally,
I'm jealous of your floor, looks great :2thumbs:
But like you was over welding and body work, and just wanted it moving forward
I'm battling wiring gremlins at the moment ,
One step forward 2 back
You have seen the new grills out at classic industries , that will save you a lot of time to get on to that engine
By the way fantastic car , love how those torque boxs and chassis connectors turned ,
Had to retread your whole threads again
Quote from: fy469rtse on November 13, 2014, 04:06:04 AM
Mitch you have the perfect tool to position the car ,
On its side standing up through door opening, what ever you do from this point will be better than it had originally,
I'm jealous of your floor, looks great :2thumbs:
But like you was over welding and body work, and just wanted it moving forward
I'm battling wiring gremlins at the moment ,
One step forward 2 back
You have seen the new grills out at classic industries , that will save you a lot of time to get on to that engine
By the way fantastic car , love how those torque boxs and chassis connectors turned ,
Had to retread your whole threads again
Yeah, actually the rotisserie is the only way I can see to do the passenger compartment, turn the car on its side and stand in the doorways while shooting the primer and paint. Even then, handling the hoses and keeping my body (head and arms) out of the fresh paint is going to take some care. Maybe do some practice runs first.. :shruggy:
And I have seen the thread on the new grills. I hope they turn out ok, I do have one of the PPR ones. One of the few to actually get one!! Also, my original looks like I could save it so will hang onto both.
Quote from: green69rt on November 12, 2014, 10:43:19 PM
I want to drive this car before my teeth fall out :lol:
lol I hear you.... I sometimes wonder when i have a day that my motivation is down if i ever be able to drive it before I turn 40.
Bought my 69 when I was 26 and I'm already 34 right now. That means I'm past half way....
And yes I guess you're right, the inside will probably be an even greather challenge to paint....
Glad to see this project moving along. Also glad you found a shop you like and should be within reason.
OK, the inside is done. Doing it was a bigger pain than doing the underside. So many nooks and crannies!!! plus everything stays inside, it doesn't just fall out on the floor!! I must have sanded every surface twice and wiped everything down with degreaser three times. Final paint still showed a bunch of crap embedded!!! Good thing it all gets covered with upholstery and carpet and ETC.
Just three pics to show the final product. It looks better in the pics than up close.
Next step is to clean my garage up, take thanksgiving off and spend time getting the rear end installed, then the front suspension, also put the doors, fenders and hood back on.. I'll be asking for advice on the suspension so pay attention (everybody likes to give advice, right!!)
:2thumbs: Mitch that looks beautiful , i told you you could do it , feel free to work on any of my cars ,
great job , now for engine bay, trunk area inside of doors so once they are back on don't have to come back off ,
and then lets see your finish cost at beaters,
just looks so good , its showing how good the prep was to metal work,
suspension , yes ask anything at all , bottom plates and ears to lower control arms , i think i took photo's and on my thread
K frame welded and gusseted around steering box mount , these two area's are known to be area's of sloppiness to steering
Hey guys, my efforts on paint are done. Got the bottom (pic 1) the inside (pic 2) the trunk (pic 3 and the roof painted (pic 4) I probably learned every wrong thing to do as I went along but all the parts I covered will not be very visible so it's all good. I really learned a lot.
Here's what I learned.
1. painting the bottom is a pain, there are so many little angles, holes and little hidden areas. Good luck covering them all!!
2. painting the pass compartment on a rotisserie sounds like a good idea but only if you don't rotate the body. Everytime you rotate it, things fall out of the door cavities, the quarter cavities and it lands right in the fresh paint :RantExplode:
3. there are so many variables is spraying paint (mix, temp, air press, speed you are moving the gun, etc, etc , etc) that this is really not a novice job. My hat is off to those that can do it well or do it for a living!!!
I was happy with everything even though the roof has enough orange peel to start an orchard!!!
Looks good! :2thumbs:
Nice job!!
That's the prettiest color ever applied to a Charger!! :2thumbs: (Subscribed to your resto, can't wait for you to drive it.)
:cheers: Beav
great job!!!! it looks :2thumbs:
nice work!! :yesnod: looking good :2thumbs: :coolgleamA: :popcrn:
Quote from: green69rt on January 29, 2015, 12:32:13 AM
2. painting the pass compartment on a rotisserie sounds like a good idea but only if you don't rotate the body. Everytime you rotate it, things fall out of the door cavities, the quarter cavities and it lands right in the fresh paint :RantExplode:
I thought I was the only one having that issue. I have blown compressed air trough out all of the possible places ands still dust and media blast sand and dust kept falling into my epoxy primer.
Took my roof shell off last month and then I saw what a bunch of crap there was hidden in the roof structure.
However you work looks great and I think its a pain in the as* to paint such a difficult area as a passanger compartment. A flat panel will be not as difficult I guess...
You gotta keep blowing air threw every crack & crevise & hole until nothing more comes out. Especially frame holes & especially if you have sandblasted. Thats what I do & don't have a dirt problem. LEON.
To paint areas like that you have to adjust the gun for a ball of paint, not a fan. And then paint from the inside hard to reach area out to the middle and then return to a fan setting. It is an art for sure, just keep practicing. Are you installing a vinyl top? What are you spraying, SS?
Also, you may not want to be moving her once you start any painting. Practice your strokes first. Roof on down usually. You gotta be moving quick, sweating for sure. 3-4 coats of color, + the same in clear... That car is 17'-2" long.
I give you a lot of credit doing what you did. Your thread will motivate a lot of people. Great job!
Great work Mitch, look great , :popcrn: :popcrn:
Don't worry about the orange peel to roof , vinyl top going back on ? Right
Black or green top, my favourite is the dual colour pattern boar grain on 68's , looks just like snake skin
This car already has twice as much paint compared to what the factory put on , painted in areas and properly done that dodge skimped on :2thumbs:
Quote from: hemi-hampton on January 29, 2015, 08:01:47 PM
You gotta keep blowing air threw every crack & crevise & hole until nothing more comes out. Especially frame holes & especially if you have sandblasted. Thats what I do & don't have a dirt problem. LEON.
Yeah, I thought I had done exactly what you are suggesting, I just didn't do enough or else I missed some spots.
Quote from: Patronus on January 29, 2015, 09:22:30 PM
To paint areas like that you have to adjust the gun for a ball of paint, not a fan. And then paint from the inside hard to reach area out to the middle and then return to a fan setting. It is an art for sure, just keep practicing. Are you installing a vinyl top? What are you spraying, SS?
Also, you may not want to be moving her once you start any painting. Practice your strokes first. Roof on down usually. You gotta be moving quick, sweating for sure. 3-4 coats of color, + the same in clear... That car is 17'-2" long.
Like you said there is some skill, some art, some luck and some experience in getting this right. I learned a lot about pattern control, fluid control and air control as I went along. If I were to do it again (probably not) I think it would turn out better.
Quote from: fy469rtse on January 30, 2015, 05:46:06 AM
Great work Mitch, look great , :popcrn: :popcrn:
Don't worry about the orange peel to roof , vinyl top going back on ? Right
Black or green top, my favourite is the dual colour pattern boar grain on 68's , looks just like snake skin
This car already has twice as much paint compared to what the factory put on , painted in areas and properly done that dodge skimped on :2thumbs:
Yeah, vinyl roof. I don't really know why I got all the orange peel, maybe it had something to do with the temperature here in Houston. It's been around 40 at night and 60 for a high. I waited for a couple of days in the 70s before shooting the paint. Maybe the paint in the can had not warmed up. The peel came with the primer, top coat came out nice. :shruggy:
Keep posting , your whole thread is inspiring to any one ,
Great build , I can't wait for the photo with your grin ear to ear , first drive start up :2thumbs:
Did you sand the primer before paint?
Quote from: Patronus on January 31, 2015, 09:26:59 AM
Did you sand the primer before paint?
For the roof I could have, but didn't, just to get the orange peel out because I knew it was going to be under the vinyl. If I get worried that it will show through the vinyl I'll just sand the color down, but I really don't think it'll show through. Any pictures I take really exaggerate how bad it is. I just shot two coats of primer about 15 minutes apart then two coats of color after about 20 minutes (long enough to clean the gun, mix the color and take a bathroom break!)
Or if you're asking did I sand before the first coat of primer then yes I did. I think I took almost all the old layers of paint off of the metal before I started, then spent about four hours wiping the whole roof down with degreaser (at least three times) before shooting the primer. Probably the most care I took on any part so far.
Hi, folks. I've been hanging the sheet metal back on the car to get it ready to ship out for paint (yeah!!) Just a little status on how things look. I wanted to see if the time on the rotisserie had changed the body any. Looks like the car came thru with no bends, twists etc. So now I have run into the latest problem ( there's always something, right?) I mounted the doors and the passenger side really came out nice. Pics show the rear gap (really nice), the cowl/fender/door gap ( may need a little work), the door/fender gap (looks good) and the bottom of the door gap (probably as good as it's going to get, at least I can't stick my fingers very far in.) See next post for the driver side.
So the driver side door (new from AMD) doesn't look as good. The profiles of the door, cowl and fender (all AMD don't match each other very well. Also the bottom gap is so big I can stick my fingers into the gap very easily. Rear door gap looks ok. So just for grins I measured the height of the new door and compared it to the old door. Kind of hard to measure but it appears that the AMD door is about 1/4" short. I think I'll put the old door back on and see if things look better.
So pics show Cowl/fender/door gaps, bottom gap and measuring the new and old doors.
In my opinion, Used Factory parts will always fit better then any aftermarket. :brickwall: LEON.
Well, I switched out the new door for the old door. I didn't want to use the old door because of dents and a lot of crap inside that I want to clean out. I figured that the cost of the new door was cheaper than having the old door repaired and cleaned. Maybe I was wrong. I've been talking to a local guy that I plan to use for painting and he suggested that I put the old driver door back on and see what the gaps look like. Ok, maybe a hour of work so I did. What a diff! The pictures tell the story. First pic shows the fender to door gap. The picture in the post above does not show how bad it was, the first pic below doesn't show the improvement, but believe me it's a BIG improvement!!
Second shows the cowl/fender/door gaps, not perfect but so much better. The door to quarter gap still looks good (pic #3) and the gap at the bottom of the door (pic #4)now matches the gap on the pass side. I guess I'll let the shop fix the old door.
Really disappointing the AMD door is not a better fit. I'll hang on to it till the car is painted then maybe I can sell it to someone that's willing to take on the extra work to make it fit
Spring planting, yard work and house repairs have been using up my time the last few weeks, but I have managed to squeeze in a few hours to hang the body panels and get the gaps set.
Seems like it is a lot of finessing here and a little pushing there, then go back and finesse and push again but it seems to have come out all right. In fact I was surprised how good they have come out and also how long it took. (You may not be able to see how good the gaps are in these photos, if anyone wants better shots let me know.)
Pic #1 is the car setting as it is today waiting for the paint shop to call and say they are ready. Right now I intend to send it so South Coast Paint and Body. Almost in walking distance from my house, almost.
Pic #2 is the hood to fender gap, really close. If everything comes out this close I will be happy, I checked out Troy's Daytona at the Nifty Fifties show and I'm getting real close to his gaps.
Pic #3 is the hood to cowl gap. I might be able to close this up by another 1/64" but probably isn't worth the work. The front edge of the hood is just about perfect fit to the length of the fenders.
Pic #4 - finally the doors,quarter and fender profiles look really close, no panels sticking out beyond the other and gaps good.
Some small amount of work still to do around the area where the driver door, cowl and fender come together. If the paint shop gives me enough time I may tackle it myself.
I cant wait to get to this point!
Great job Mitch!! :2thumbs:
lookin REALLY good!!!!!! :2thumbs: :coolgleamA:
Looking really good, :2thumbs:
make sure the painter body man pays attention to those front fenders mitch,
door openings , the flat area to the top roll on the nose of those fender, different to originals,
are the bottom I brows finished compared to originals ,
early fenders from amd weren't,
did you notice old rim compared to the rest of car , shows how far car has come along
Been gone a while. Summer in Houston seems to pull my cork some. Been working inside on a bathroom so the garage has been so full of cabinets, tile and fixtures that I couldn't get to the charger. Also the guy I was going to have paint the car seems to have stood me up. Saw him several times and asked about schedule and all I got was "still waiting for a space!" I finally quit calling him and am waiting for him to call me, doesn't seem likely. enough sob story.
So decided to do the under coating in the wheel wells while waiting.
I used Resto Rick's undercoating -
http://www.restorick.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Undercoat
Got a gun from Eastwood -
http://www.eastwood.com/flake-gun-with-bottle.html
And spent some time masking things off. Resto says it's a real mess and he was right! At least I made a big mess, black stuff everywhere. The painting was really pretty easy, but I would have been better off doing this while the car was and the rotisserie. Small lesson. I did two coats and maybe I'll do a couple of more later but right now it seems pretty good.
First pic is the car and garage covered and masked, good thing because the spray is pretty wild. I used 70# on the gun and it made painting easy but I could feel the undercoating particles bouncing back onto my arms.
second pic is how I masked the front shock towers, I seem some thread on the correct way and there seems to be a little variation so I just did what I wanted.
Third pick it the final front wheel well and the forth is the rear.
:2thumbs: :coolgleamA:
Turned out great!
Thanks guys, back in the saddle...
Very nice, worth the clean up. :coolgleamA:
Lookin good Mitch!
Since I can't get the paint shop in gear I decided to push forward with as much body work as I can. So I started on the trunk lid and doors. They all got stripped down and as usuall I found unexpected previous work. The driver door was especially bad under the paint. Looks like someone had patched the bottom of the door and I found some rust under the filler. Had to take it all off down to bare metal. Now I have to prime and fill to get it back in shape. See pic #1,2.
Pass door was not nearly as bad, had one small patch on the corner but a bunch of dings right in the middle. pic #3
So everything is stripped and primed (pic #4) and getting filler as we speak.
Hey you got a fridge in your garage! That would've made my painting more fun, I had to run inside the house to get beer and the paint fumes would follow me and hang around to stink up the place. :lol:
Good job, don't stop! :2thumbs:
I take it your mini tubbing?
Quote from: 1974dodgecharger on October 13, 2015, 01:01:29 AM
I take it your mini tubbing?
Nope, stock. May look that way but it's not.
Been spending a little more time getting the doors and trunk lid filled and primed. Looks pretty good to me, fixed the bad repair on the driver door and a few dents and dings on both. Sanded, skimed and primed the trunk lid. Going to set them aside while I finish off priming the engine bay. While I was at it I sprayed Eastwood internal frame coating between the layers of sheet metal that compose the trunk lid. I can't get in there to do any work so this might help stop or at least slow down corrosion. Pic #1 is the stuff I used, just sprayed it around inside all the holes I could find till it was running then tilted the trunk around with the hope that it would run into all the seams. I can't really tell how good the coverage is because I can't see inside. Also sprayed it in the bottom of the doors around the bottom seam and around the hinge brackets (inside the door.)
Did some filler work on the doors, got them looking better. I still haven't mastered the technique of restoring the body line along the bottom of the door but I'm working on it. Looks close but there is a 8-12" place in the middle of the driver door where the line fades out then back in. Can't see much in the pic #2 but they're ready for finally sanding and maybe some surfacer, which means I get one more crack at that body line. The driver door had the bad repair that I'm trying to fix.
While I had the paint gun out I cleaned and sprayed the trunk hinges and did a little skiming and priming of the dutchmen. pic #3 and #4
I been thinking about the painting process for the outside of the car and reading the threads on here. Couple of questions come up for me. The color will be F5 which is a medium green poly which I can see is a slight metallic. So on one thread, someone recommended that the outside of the car be painted with the doors, hood and truck lid installed so the paint will match from panel to panel. OK. Then I look and the door jams, trunk lip and engine bay need to be painted first. So wouldn't this create a tape line from paint to paint?
I started this job thinking I would do the underside of the hood, trunk lid, engine bay and the door jams. But where do I stop? The rockers are the least obvious, there is no seam that I can use as a guide for the tape (hoping to camouflage the paint line in the crack of the seam.)
The doors, hood and trunk lid seem fairly straight forward, just stop at the edge.
Also, everyone says I should use BC/CC so that means trying to do all the above then blend the outside into the jams, etc. :shruggy:
This has to be pretty obvious to you professional painter types, after all, car are repainted every day. Do they have tape lines, just hidden??
So whats's the proceedure??
you can paint the jams & then do a back tape that is rolled back so it is not a hard tape line. that is how i did mine.
LOOKING GREAT!!!!
Quote from: cdr on November 17, 2015, 07:00:28 PM
you can paint the jams & then do a back tape that is rolled back so it is not a hard tape line. that is how i did mine.
LOOKING GREAT!!!!
Maybe I'll come over and you can show me what you mean.
With a color like F5 I highly recommend painting the outside with everything installed. That does mean doing the jambs seperately. A rollback tape means you place half of the tape on the painted jamb and half sticks out touching nothing but air. You then fold the tape back onto itself keeping the crease round so the tape goes into an arc. This minimizes the tape line. There are also foam masking tubes that stick onto the jamb and minimize tape lines. When all the painting is done and you remove the tape, there will still be some tape marks and overspray so that's where the final touch comes in: fine wet sanding and polishing. The risk is sanding throgh the clear, bu a small tocuh up can be done if needed. That's why it's important to minimize the tape line in the first place so the cleanup is not too much work.
There's another option, but it's a bit risky. I used this on my own car when I painted the engine bay. I had to paint all the way up to the top of the fender and with a white car this creates a very visible line. I used the tape rollback method to start which minimized it significantly. As soon as I had finished cleaning the paintgun and put everything away, the paint was getting dry but was far from cured. I took a clean rag with some lacquer thinner and ran it over the paint edge with my finger. When done right the tape line will melt and the new paint blends into the old. It takes a little bit of the gloss of the paint so once it was cured I gave it a quick rub with polish to brink that shine back. There's no telling now where the old paint ends and the new paint beings. The risky part is that you can take it too far, use too much thinner, or even spill thinner on your fresh paint. That would kinda ruin the day.
Quote from: green69rt on November 17, 2015, 07:40:55 PM
Quote from: cdr on November 17, 2015, 07:00:28 PM
you can paint the jams & then do a back tape that is rolled back so it is not a hard tape line. that is how i did mine.
LOOKING GREAT!!!!
Maybe I'll come over and you can show me what you mean.
no problem
the method I use to get a paint line free finish .
Pant the underside of the hood and trunk lid , and the interior color for the doors completely with clear before the exterior, they are easy to mask to avoid masking lines. Then when the outside of the car is ready for paint ,spray the jambs ,but don't clear them yet. When that's dry mask the jambs back from the edge about 3/4 of an inch ,then cover that 3/4 area to the edge with one continuous length of tape. Spray the sealer. Then remove that length of 3/4 tape. Make sure there is no sealer edge by lightly sanding the edge of need be. Next base the entire exterior of the car. Once that's done remove the hood ,doors ,and deck lid . I clear the parts in two batches. The main body shell ,including the jambs . Then the doors hood and deck lid. No paint lines and no color variation.
Quote from: Charger-Bodie on November 18, 2015, 08:09:19 AM
the method I use to get a paint line free finish .
Pant the underside of the hood and trunk lid , and the interior color for the doors completely with clear before the exterior, they are easy to mask to avoid masking lines. Then when the outside of the car is ready for paint ,spray the jambs ,but don't clear them yet. When that's dry mask the jambs back from the edge about 3/4 of an inch ,then cover that 3/4 area to the edge with one continuous length of tape. Spray the sealer. Then remove that length of 3/4 tape. Make sure there is no sealer edge by lightly sanding the edge of need be. Next base the entire exterior of the car. Once that's done remove the hood ,doors ,and deck lid . I clear the parts in two batches. The main body shell ,including the jambs . Then the doors hood and deck lid. No paint lines and no color variation.
I think I get it. Never thought of doing base (to get the color right) then disassemble, then do clear. I still need to finish a little body work and block but will see what I can do. Thanks for the help. I'm betting that things have to go quickly from the time I do the base to doing clear, I don't think I will be able to sand the base much at all.
Bodie's way is the best no doubt, little more work but worth it. You don't sand the base though and you do have a good window to disassemble and shoot clear, no worries.
Put the car on rollers Mitch , don't disassemble, once doors and panels are fitted
Push car over so you can get door wide open to clear,
Didn't the factory do it this way, body's assembled
Once you have one side cleared , body's on rollers ,
So you can push it over so you can get car over far enough to do other
Our latest version was to paint the shell and doors together with the deck lid and fenders off - but at the same time. We sprayed the jambs and then just closed the doors. (no strikers)
Thanks guys, I'm listening. Not at that point, and I really don't want to paint this thing myself, but I'm running out of options.
I have been working on the old lady in spite of the cold. Occasional days in the 70's lets me get some painting done.
Got the doors cleaned up and after I primed them I could see all the little dings and waves in the metal. Spent some time banging stuff aroung and them a skim of filler, sand and another coat of primer and they're ready to go as far as I'm concerned. Even had some dings in the bottom inside of the doors, wonder how that happened :shruggy:
Pic #1 is the bottom inside all nice and ready to paint. This part will be painted black because the inside upholstery is black.
Pic #2 is the outside of one door, ready to go. Maybe a tiny bit more work on the body lines to sharpen them up.
Pic #3 is the trunk hinges, cleaned and primed. Since I had the gun loaded, it was a good time to shoot some misc items.
Pic #4 and the inside of the fenders at the nose. This area might show around the grill and other folks warned me about it. Fille the inside and sanded it down and filled the remaining with some seam sealer.
Got some 70 degree days in Houston so took advantage and shot some paint. I've been following several thread and asking for info and advice on the SS vs BC/CC issue. I've been shooting SS and I have to say that I like the way it looks. I remember my old car and I thought it looked fine. Even so, I'm still trying to find someone to do the BC/CC on the outside of the car. I did shoot the engine bay and jambs with SS and I like the way it turned out. So here's what it looks like.
Pic #1 Engine bay and the underside of the trunk lid. Engine bay looks just fine to me, I had to sand and redo the underside of the trunk (finally figured out my orange peel problem with the gun.)
Pic #2 Then I masked and painted around the inside of the doors, remasked and painted the rest with gloss black from rattle can.
Pic #3 Another shot of engine bay.
Pic #4 Trunk lip, I might sand and repaint this because of some dirt and orange peel problems.
Last set of pics for now.
Pic #1 Pass door jamb (I'll will definitely have to sand and repaint this (this is where I finally got my gun set up correctly.)
Pic #2 I also dug out a whole bunch of parts that needed primer/paint/undercoating.
:o LOOKIN GREAT!!! good job.
Looking good!
very nice!!!
Pat
Very nice! You're getting closer! :2thumbs:
looking good ! :2thumbs: :coolgleamA: :popcrn:
Yes, very nice.
Betcha that feels good!!
Let's be honest though, it took a LOT of work to get to that point. The last thing you want is to re-do...
Practice. Ya gotta set up the gun. On anything, cardboard, plastic, anything. Get it into a nice even line. (harder said than done)
4" to 6" away staying square to the panel. Practice your pattern first. How are you going to spray? Get your wrist moving, use it like a paint brush. Sure even strokes. A light coat to start, let it flash. Then game on.
It's hard work. Very hard.
If your not sweating then your a pro and in the wrong line of work..
Pretty cool to see that color going back on. Love it! :2thumbs:
Quote from: Patronus on February 10, 2016, 08:16:07 PM
Betcha that feels good!!
Let's be honest though, it took a LOT of work to get to that point. The last thing you want is to re-do...
Practice. Ya gotta set up the gun. On anything, cardboard, plastic, anything. Get it into a nice even line. (harder said than done)
4" to 6" away staying square to the panel. Practice your pattern first. How are you going to spray? Get your wrist moving, use it like a paint brush. Sure even strokes. A light coat to start, let it flash. Then game on.
It's hard work. Very hard.
If your not sweating then your a pro and in the wrong line of work..
Pretty cool to see that color going back on. Love it! :2thumbs:
Seems like you just told me all the things I found out in the last few days. I finally got some cardboard leaning against a tree in the back yard to set up the spray pattern. It still takes some practice to get the coat down in even layers. Too little and the paint doesn't flow out to a nice shiny finish, too much and you get runs and sags (and then cuss words!) Yes, it was hard work, I was sweating inside the paint suit and is was only 70 deg out. Felt like 95 by the time I finished and this was only a few small things. Doing multiple coats on a whole car has to be brutal.
Edit: Oh, one more thing that I had to learn. I had thought that the paint had to go on in thicker coats to get the shine I wanted so I would spray till it was glossy and got a lot of runs and sags. I didn't know anything about paint flowing out to a nice even coat. First few times, I always applied the paint in too heavy of layers, now I know better. Now if I just had a paint booth to keep the crap out of the paint.
a wooden frame some plastic a staple gun and you have yourself a spray booth
:cheers: :popcrn: :popcrn: :2thumbs:
looks great mitch
I was hoping I didnt come across as a dick. It's easy for someone to come give a lesson online..
... just trying to help is all. :cheers:
:eyes:
Quote from: Patronus on February 11, 2016, 11:57:08 PM
I was hoping I didnt come across as a dick. It's easy for someone to come give a lesson online..
... just trying to help is all. :cheers:
Not at all, I always assume good intent. And I was not complaining, just remarking how your advice and my experience matched up so well. :2thumbs:
Got the fenders up on saw horses and added some undercoat to them then installed the headlight splash shields (Pic #1.) Then added two more coats of undercoat, especially under the top of the fenders. I hope that will add some protection from the tires throwing gravel around and dents showing on the surface of the fenders( Pic #2.) Spent a little time to black out the front area of the fenders, I don't know if they will show thru the grill but easier to do now than later (Pic #3.) While I had the black paint out, I also blacked out the radiator supports (Pic #4.)
Edit: just remembered that I have to decide if I want to drill a hole for the antenna or try for a hidden antenna.... :scratchchin:
Nice work! That's looking great! :2thumbs:
Time for You to paint the body.
ever thought of painting the outside of the car in acrylic paint as its much more forgiving as you clear over base meaning you can always color coat it as may times as you want within reason and rub it back if you get runs etc then when your happy with it after you have finished rubbing you final coat you then clear coat it and even that can be rubbed to suit.the only problem with this paint is its not as durable as a 2 pak system but the finish is superior as polyurethane is always that polyurethane its never as flat it has an orange peel affect which i know others are going to say it can be rubbed flat .but that also has its draw back as it tends to milk up once polished. just my :Twocents:
Quote from: ht4spd307 on February 16, 2016, 06:32:13 PM
ever thought of painting the outside of the car in acrylic paint as its much more forgiving as you clear over base meaning you can always color coat it as may times as you want within reason and rub it back if you get runs etc then when your happy with it after you have finished rubbing you final coat you then clear coat it and even that can be rubbed to suit.the only problem with this paint is its not as durable as a 2 pak system but the finish is superior as polyurethane is always that polyurethane its never as flat it has an orange peel affect which i know others are going to say it can be rubbed flat .but that also has its draw back as it tends to milk up once polished. just my :Twocents:
I'll try to phrase what I've learned on this forum. The paint is semi-metallic. So any sanding, etc will mess up the metal particle arrangement. If I spray single stage, it will have to be close to perfect after the last coat so I can't sand defects out. Given that and my low experience level (as in no experience with BC/CC) I don't want to shoot this car on my own. I may be driven to this in the end but I'm not ready to give up on having a professional do it, not yet.
a friend of mine just painted a silver on his car and even though its metallic it didn't affect the metallic by sanding between coats as the metallic is mixed through the base color.the only problem he got was not loading the paint correctly which in turn ends up leaving a streaking affect but letting it dry and re blocking the surface and another coat problem eliminated.maybe speak to a paint shop about this technique they may re ashore you better than i can
When you paint it yourself, it is what it is. Its gonna have crap in it. I consider it like birth marks. Always going to have something. If you really want to keep it clean it takes two rows of box fans, 80gal worth of compressor, and some type of drying system. Even if its that paper toilet roll type.
So after spending the week end painting everything that I could think might need it, I started hanging parts back on the car. Having it strung all over the garage left no room for our daily drivers.
First pic is all the parts for the trunk lid.
Second pic is the hinges installed.
Third pick is the trunk lid installed. Needs a little tweeking to get it exactly right. I installed the trunk lock so I could shut it and it would stay.
Forth pic, also got the doors back on.
I started on the fenders but need to wait for the hole punch so I can make the hole for the antenna.
:coolgleamA:
Quote from: cdr on February 21, 2016, 07:52:24 PM
:coolgleamA:
Wait....where's that and why didn't I know about it!!??
Quote from: green69rt on February 21, 2016, 08:19:31 PM
Quote from: cdr on February 21, 2016, 07:52:24 PM
:coolgleamA:
Wait....where's that and why didn't I know about it!!??
it was at 2nd baptist katy, on Saturday
Quote from: cdr on February 21, 2016, 09:22:01 PM
Quote from: green69rt on February 21, 2016, 08:19:31 PM
Quote from: cdr on February 21, 2016, 07:52:24 PM
:coolgleamA:
Wait....where's that and why didn't I know about it!!??
it was at 2nd baptist katy, on Saturday
I would have really liked to see you car out on the street!
I finally got the hood safety latch spring replaced. I had to make my own. I got a piece of round steel stock and welded a piece of flt stock to it so my vice would grip it securely. Got some spring wire (sometimes called piano wire) from Grainger supply. Just mount the steel in the vise and wind the wire around it. took a couple of tries but ended up with a piece that suited me.
I had to buy 30 feet of the wire (10 three foot pieces) so got plenty of extra if I need another.
Pic #1 shows the little tool I made and the notch to hold the end of the spring.
Pic #2 shows turning the wire around it, this wire was light enough to do by hand.
Pic #3 shows the broken spring and the home made spring installed.
Pic #4 shows the latch assembled ready to attach to the hood (Handle is upside down in the picture but I've fixed it since then.)
Very clever!!!
looking very good Mitch ,
loving the paint on it :2thumbs:
you just gave me an idea , missing the return springs on seat latches , they just weren't there
the bottom latch to fold seat forward
, cant find them anywhere and its annoying , so going to make my own
Haven't posted in a while, been spending my time on spring chores and fitting up the body panels. Anyway, progress to date consists of assembly of the hood hinges and mounting them up (pics 1 and 2), then putting the hood on. Pic 3. Then spent weeks tweaking the panels. A little here a little there. Take them off, put them back on, blah, blah, blah. Anyway got it done except for a tiny bit of work to get the body lines between the driver side door and fender to line up. I think it's only take a little filler or primer surfacer to make that correction. We'll see.
This is the way it sets right now.
Nice Mitch,
I know what you mean about body panel fitment. It takes FOREVER!
That color seems to have a odd Pastel look to it :scratchchin: :shruggy: :Twocents:
Quote from: hemi-hampton on June 18, 2016, 08:33:08 PM
That color seems to have a odd Pastel look to it :scratchchin: :shruggy: :Twocents:
Seems that no matter how I use the camera, the color or reflection in the paint does weird things. I've tried flash, no flash, garage lights on, garage lights off, daylight or night, just get all sorts of different shading. Just looking through the pictures of the hood hinges, some seem to have blue in them and some almost a F8 green vs the F5 on the paint can. :shruggy: :shruggy:
By the way, I don't know if you just didn't comment or I slipped one past you folks, but on a previous post I show the front of the car with the lower radiator support painted body color then about 3 posts ago it shows up as black. Didn't realize how prominent it would be before I started mocking up the front valance so it got blacked out.
Well, I'm at the point where I need to start thinking about primer/surfacer. Right now I am sanding all of the exterior of the car down. It has got multiple coats pf primer here and there. I'm sanding every thing till I start to see the metal show thru the primer or at least very thin. So far using a lot of 120 grit paper. The car will have a combination of filler, primer and bare metal. So I am looking at Evercoat FeatherFill and Slick Sand. From the description it looks like FeatherFill is designed to be used over etch primer or other coating but no bare metal. Slick sand is over anything plus it does seem less toxic.
Right now my thought is to use the Slick Sand even though it does cost a little more. I already have a 2.2 gun. It says "only one coat" (good advice or not?) Then start off with some 220 grit for the bulk sanding and finish up with 320 or should I just go right to 320 like the directions say.
Am I heading in the right direction?
I used clausen rust defender it is awesome stuff Oreilly's sells it.
Honestly I would remove all the primer you have on there now, or at least as much as is possible, and give the entire car a few coats of epoxy,. Forget about etch primer. Then do your filler work over the epoxy which I would scuff first. When the filler work is done re-epoxy the whole car followed by spray filler if/where needed and a high build primer.
You want epoxy on all the bare metal and re-epoxy when you reach metal again when sanding. You can spot spray this but you need it on there as it's the only water barrier you'll get on the car.
When you have done your final blocking and you have a few bare metal edges here and there then you can simply use thinned epoxy as a sealer right before topcoat but if you're having big patches of metal after blocking then you want to use epoxy and more filler so you can block it without having to sand through your primer. It's a lot of work but well worth it. :Twocents:
Quote from: Dino on June 21, 2016, 03:37:32 PM
Honestly I would remove all the primer you have on there now, or at least as much as is possible, and give the entire car a few coats of epoxy,. Forget about etch primer. Then do your filler work over the epoxy which I would scuff first. When the filler work is done re-epoxy the whole car followed by spray filler if/where needed and a high build primer.
This is about where I am now. I had a lot of epoxy primer on the car as I did different filler jobs and repairs (like replacing the quarters.) So it has been epoxy, filler, epoxy, filler etc till I got to the point that all the body work was done. Then a final coat of epoxy. I just didn't want to leave a whole bunch of layers of epoxy/filler on the car. So that's why I was spending so much time sanding.
You want epoxy on all the bare metal and re-epoxy when you reach metal again when sanding. You can spot spray this but you need it on there as it's the only water barrier you'll get on the car.
When you have done your final blocking and you have a few bare metal edges here and there then you can simply use thinned epoxy as a sealer right before topcoat but if you're having big patches of metal after blocking then you want to use epoxy and more filler so you can block it without having to sand through your primer. It's a lot of work but well worth it. :Twocents:
So I was going to use the surfacer/primer then all the blocking (mostly to establish the body lines that did not come well defined from AMD) then a final coat of epoxy. I anticipate that any painter that I take the car to will want to do a final sanding/primer before they get to the color coats.
green69rt: You are right about the painter actually wanting to do the final sanding/primer before painting it. I must have missed it somewhere but it looks like you are going base coat/clear coat for the paint work. I have no experience with BC/CC as my painter used single stage paint on my Charger and both his other MOPARS. I haven't talked to him in a while due to extenuating circumstances but his paint jobs are top notch! Actually, I don't think he is doing it anymore but, his single stage paint work is beautiful !
The better you get the Charger prepped, the easier it wil be for the paint is sprayed on. I cannot wait to see it in color!
I kind of cringe about bring this up again but I'm actually reconsidering the BC/CC route. As I've painted the car and seeing how good a job I can do (nothing compared to a pro) and how nice the color is (when I do a better job) the SS route doesn't seem that bad. I remember my old car and it was SS, I don't know if BC/CC was even available back then. Anyway, it will be an item of discussion when I talk to the painter.
What shade of green are you going with? If it is F8 Dark Green, single-stage would be awesome and much easier to repair a ding or scratch. Done right, SS can be almost as shiny as BC/CC and will last.
Just look at the shine on my SS!
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k195/69HEMICHARGER/009_zps526a6070.jpg)
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k195/69HEMICHARGER/023_zps39b54022.jpg)
If your going with a metallic paint I would not advise Single Stage. Just my opinion, others may vary? :shruggy: :Twocents: LEON.
I tend to agree and do not know if his shade of green has metallic in it or not but, my painter painted his '69 Roadrunner orange in SS and it had metallic flakes in it he said it was tough to wet sand and not mess up the metallic but, he did it!
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k195/69HEMICHARGER/DSC00007_zpslhmjwf5m.jpg)
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k195/69HEMICHARGER/DSC00004_zps8mkl9dtr.jpg)
I still think you should give it a try on your own.
Quote from: hemi-hampton on June 22, 2016, 08:20:39 PM
If your going with a metallic paint I would not advise Single Stage. Just my opinion, others may vary? :shruggy: :Twocents: LEON.
I know Leon. That's why I hated to bring it up. The final say will probably be the guy who paints it.
I had a little visit from CDR a few days ago. We discussed some things and he gave me a few suggestions. First he said I should quit using 120 grit for this job and just get some 80 grit. I didn't want to wait for a week to continue but he said just go to O'Reilly's Auto. They carry it. SO at 2:00pm that afternoon I had a roll and was really making some progress.
Then he says, why am I killing myself crawling around on the floor sanding the rockers, bottoms of the fenders, etc. I have the perfect tool to make it much easier. So two days later the car is back on the rotisserie. (pic #1). Thanks Charlie. Since doing those things the sanding job has gone a lot faster. I can only spend a couple of hours per day on the car because of the heat but pic #2 shows the driver quarter mostly done and pic #3 shows the pass quarter. I still looks like a lot of primer left but it's getting real thin and I'm starting to see the shiny metal through the primer. Stilll more work but it is moving pretty quick.
Quote from: green69rt on June 18, 2016, 10:45:12 PM
Quote from: hemi-hampton on June 18, 2016, 08:33:08 PM
That color seems to have a odd Pastel look to it :scratchchin: :shruggy: :Twocents:
Seems that no matter how I use the camera, the color or reflection in the paint does weird things. I've tried flash, no flash, garage lights on, garage lights off, daylight or night, just get all sorts of different shading. Just looking through the pictures of the hood hinges, some seem to have blue in them and some almost a F8 green vs the F5 on the paint can. :shruggy: :shruggy:
I took another look at the pictures and then the car and I think the color variation is the result of me having a few LED "daylight" fixtures as overhead lights in the garage and the rest normal "cool white" bulbs. The LEDs give good light but they make for strange colors at different angles. I switching to all LED, maybe a bad idea if I was doing painting as a business.
It was great to see you & the car, lookin great !!! :2thumbs:
You never said what Primer you used, Slick Sand? Featherfill? From what I can see you need to reprime again. LEON.
Quote from: hemi-hampton on July 01, 2016, 10:57:38 PM
You never said what Primer you used, Slick Sand? Featherfill? From what I can see you need to reprime again. LEON.
I haven't done any primer surfacer yet. Over the years there have been a bunch of layers and over spray of primer, filler etc. I was worried that all the layers of filler, primer would act funny on the final finish so I was taking almost everything off. At the time, I shot it with the idea that it would prevent rust. Now it's time to get it ready to paint.
That's a good comment. I sanded down to bare metal in spots. So, do I need to shoot primer before the surfacer or go straight to surfacer then top it off with primer in prep for final top coat??
Edit: looked up the data sheets and found that Slick sand requires epoxy primer over bare metal before appling, Clausens does not. Clausens is a etching product.
You are making good progress on the Charger. I'm glad Charlie lives close enough to come by with some pointers. He gave you some good advice. Keep going forward and the end will be soon enough!
Quote from: green69rt on July 01, 2016, 11:55:05 PM
Quote from: hemi-hampton on July 01, 2016, 10:57:38 PM
You never said what Primer you used, Slick Sand? Featherfill? From what I can see you need to reprime again. LEON.
I haven't done any primer surfacer yet. Over the years there have been a bunch of layers and over spray of primer, filler etc. I was worried that all the layers of filler, primer would act funny on the final finish so I was taking almost everything off. At the time, I shot it with the idea that it would prevent rust. Now it's time to get it ready to paint.
That's a good comment. I sanded down to bare metal in spots. So, do I need to shoot primer before the surfacer or go straight to surfacer then top it off with primer in prep for final top coat??
if using Clausens ,it can go over bare metal or anything.
I never heard of or used Clausens so can't give any advise on that, do you live in USA? LEON.
Quote from: hemi-hampton on July 02, 2016, 11:06:49 PM
I never heard of or used Clausens so can't give any advise on that, do you live in USA? LEON.
yes we live in south Texas.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjPzYPLudbNAhXL6IMKHUpJCcEQFggeMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.clausenautobody.com%2Fproddetail.php%3Fprod%3Drust-defender&usg=AFQjCNHiW1Q8Z_LZ9AlbC2nhUovSEPYF-Q
Sanding a whole car sure is fun. While I was sanding I was wondering how straight the sheet metal was. I didn't have any guide coat or anything I wanted to use. Then I remembered something my Grandfather taught me. He was a carpenter and he said if you want to check for a flat surfave just mark the surface up with a pencil then sand with a flat board. High spots get knocked down first and low spots don't get sanded. So I marked up a quarter on the car and tried it. Seems to work pretty good.
Pic #1 shows how I cross hatched the quarter. The marks are light so look hard. Don't press hard with the pencil, just hard enough to leave the mark.
Pic #2 shows how a low spot by the rear marker turned up.
Pic #3 shows some filler on a low spot on the driver door.
Pic #4 shows the door after sanding.
Quote from: green69rt on July 01, 2016, 05:32:10 PM
Quote from: green69rt on June 18, 2016, 10:45:12 PM
Quote from: hemi-hampton on June 18, 2016, 08:33:08 PM
That color seems to have a odd Pastel look to it :scratchchin: :shruggy: :Twocents:
Seems that no matter how I use the camera, the color or reflection in the paint does weird things. I've tried flash, no flash, garage lights on, garage lights off, daylight or night, just get all sorts of different shading. Just looking through the pictures of the hood hinges, some seem to have blue in them and some almost a F8 green vs the F5 on the paint can. :shruggy: :shruggy:
I took another look at the pictures and then the car and I think the color variation is the result of me having a few LED "daylight" fixtures as overhead lights in the garage and the rest normal "cool white" bulbs. The LEDs give good light but they make for strange colors at different angles. I switching to all LED, maybe a bad idea if I was doing painting as a business.
K.I.S.S. - take a painted part out in the sun and take a picture of it.
Love the thread and all the work btw!
Quote from: green69rt on July 04, 2016, 03:17:41 PM
Sanding a whole car sure is fun. While I was sanding I was wondering how straight the sheet metal was. I didn't have any guide coat or anything I wanted to use. Then I remembered something my Grandfather taught me. He was a carpenter and he said if you want to check for a flat surfave just mark the surface up with a pencil then sand with a flat board. High spots get knocked down first and low spots don't get sanded. So I marked up a quarter on the car and tried it. Seems to work pretty good.
Pic #1 shows how I cross hatched the quarter. The marks are light so look hard. Don't press hard with the pencil, just hard enough to leave the mark.
Pic #2 shows how a low spot by the rear marker turned up.
Pic #3 shows some filler on a low spot on the driver door.
Pic #4 shows the door after sanding.
Get a can of cheap black spray paint to use as a guide coat. Spray it with just enough coverage to see low/high areas.
(http://www.chevydiy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/95.jpg)
Quote from: Homerr on July 04, 2016, 04:47:37 PM
Get a can of cheap black spray paint to use as a guide coat. Spray it with just enough coverage to see low/high areas.
(http://www.chevydiy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/95.jpg)
I've heard of doing that and would have but I was in the middle of the work and didn't want to quit and make a trip so just used the pencil trick. I thought it worked well.
Looks like the pencil trick work well to me . Clever idea!
Usually what I do is after Priming, I run thinner threw my gun to clean it out, while I'm doing this I'll add some black base tint or any black laying around to the thinner & spray a black guide coat with the gun. As seen below. LEON.
Quote from: hemi-hampton on July 04, 2016, 11:04:12 PM
Usually what I do is after Priming, I run thinner threw my gun to clean it out, while I'm doing this I'll add some black base tint or any black laying around to the thinner & spray a black guide coat with the gun. As seen below. LEON.
neat!!! two steps in one.
Hours and hours of filler then sand, sand, sand And I'm close to calling it quits. Pics show the product.
Pic #1 shows pass fender, most of the work there was around the marker light opening and the top edge of the fender. As it came from AMD the top edge was really round, I would guess maybe a 3/16" radius. The door (OE door) edge that the fender edge ran into was really nice and crisp, not knife sharp but a nice fold. I ended up making a knife edge then knocking the edge down with some 150 grit to match the door.
Pic #2 show the passenger door. This is what came on the car and the years were not kind to it. Once I started sanding I found many parking lot dings.
Pic#3 Is the pass quarter. Again, most of the work was around the marker opening and the area behind the wheel.
Now I got a question about the body lines in the next post.
As I was working on the filler I noticed that the center body line from the front fender to the door are about 1/4" to 3/8" mismatched.
Here's what I see...it looks like the door center line runs into the bottom line of the door scallop and then disappears at the front of the scallop then reappears on the fender. But the line on my fenders does not line up with that line.
Pic #1 shows a tape I applied, to the driver side, that travels along the fender line then onto thedoor and matches the middle line on the door. I marked on the tape (freehand) where I can feel the line on the fender. Way off!
Pic #2 gives a hint of how the rest of the door to fender profile matches. Bottom and top are fine, at least to my eye.
Pic #3 show the passenger side that shows the same offset. Both OE doors, both AMD fenders. Seems like it would take a lot of filler to correct.
Any thoughts?
open the door & look inside the fender at the edge, & see where the line really is on the fender, you might have gone astray on the line, I did on mine & that is how I figured it out.
how many times are you planning to prime ? you have gone done to bare metal in some spots and still habe primer in others. All materials will be removed at different rates. Those bare metal are obviously your high spots, but as u are sanding over them your primer and filler around your bare metal is being removed much faster, careful not to go to far, you can almost end up back at your filler stage of your not careful
I am not sure what product your using but I would look into a good HIGH build primer if you can not find a dtm primer u are happy with. The purchase some etch wipes to treat your bare metal and then apply your high build or poly surfacer. It looks like you have about 2 more rounds to go !
To me it almost looks like you need a thin skim coat of filler over everything. Just my opinion, I'm sure others will vary. :Twocents: :shruggy: LEON.
This was a case of a lot of different layers of various things over the years. I took this time to remove almost everything while I looked for high and low spots. The high spots look like places that I just got too vigorous with the sandpaper. If you look it's almost always on the top curve of the fenders. The low spots look more legit. I pretty much put a skim coat on everything. I think the method is to do all the metal work, which may involve more than one coat of filler or primer then end up with a primer coated shell. Now sand it all down to reveal the high and low spots. Fill the low spots and shrink the high spots to get closer to all at one level. Now sand till everything is really close and then spray a high build "primer/surfacer" to get that last little bit of smoothness. Now the final blocking and a final layer of primer to seal everything.
I think I am close to shooting some primer/surfacer such as "featherfill". The biggest problem that I am having is that the body lines that I expect to show up are just not there. I looked thru some threads and I can see the body lines (kind of jealous) but getting them to show up on my car seems to be really hard. The AMD fenders have really soft folds and bends. Getting them to have nice sharp body lines is a chore. Is this normal?
Edit...now that I look at the pictures I posted it looks like the high spots are on the lower parts of the car. I think I will go out and look at the car again.....
Just a final note, I'm not really happy with the body lines of the AMD fenders. They seem really soft. Just whining!!
Your body lines should look like this while blocking primer & like this when done. LEON.
Area's like this circled black that show bondo, metal, bondo, metal, bondo, metal, ect would be better off with one thin skim coat of filler & blocked but don't block until your back to metal & bondo & metal again. Keep a thin coat over it all or most of it. The way you got it, sure 4-5 coats of feather fill & blocked & another 4-5 coats & blocked may get it straight but with the skim coat I suggested will be much easier & straighter. LEON.
About 6-7 years ago a guy that lived in Detroit area got a hold of me. He put his own 1/4's on & when he was done he realized what mess he made of them & screwed then up. Wanted me to come fix them. I rubbed my hands on them & waviest 1/4's I ever felt. So bad I was about to tell him to cut them off & try again or I'll redo them. He wanted me to save them as is. SO, I had to bondo them end to end top to bottom. I was going to say I skimed coated them but it was more then that. Anyways, when the car was done everybody loved how straight the car was & nobody knew any bondo was on the Quarters. Both sides were done. Pic below. LEON.
I was pretty much in the same boat as you and had to do what LEON did on the quarters due to my lack of experience in welding in quarters 10 years ago, I had to use filler top/bottom and side to side. I couldn't see any of the body lines until I shot it with the featherfill.
After blocking out the featherfill, I put down 3 more coats of high build primer and am in the process of blocking that out too. I tried to do what LEON was saying about rather than having metal/filler/metal/filler, a nice even coat of filler to block out.
You will get there, lots of patience and lots of tape for the body lines. Not sure about your fender issue on the body line, my quarters were doing similar things (Crappy Sherman skins) so basically I had to make a center body line down the quarter on both sides. :cheers:
Quote from: green69rt on July 14, 2016, 10:25:32 PM
This was a case of a lot of different layers of various things over the years. I took this time to remove almost everything while I looked for high and low spots. The high spots look like places that I just got too vigorous with the sandpaper. If you look it's almost always on the top curve of the fenders. The low spots look more legit. I pretty much put a skim coat on everything. I think the method is to do all the metal work, which may involve more than one coat of filler or primer then end up with a primer coated shell. Now sand it all down to reveal the high and low spots. Fill the low spots and shrink the high spots to get closer to all at one level. Now sand till everything is really close and then spray a high build "primer/surfacer" to get that last little bit of smoothness. Now the final blocking and a final layer of primer to seal everything.
I think I am close to shooting some primer/surfacer such as "featherfill". The biggest problem that I am having is that the body lines that I expect to show up are just not there. I looked thru some threads and I can see the body lines (kind of jealous) but getting them to show up on my car seems to be really hard. The AMD fenders have really soft folds and bends. Getting them to have nice sharp body lines is a chore. Is this normal?
Edit...now that I look at the pictures I posted it looks like the high spots are on the lower parts of the car. I think I will go out and look at the car again.....
your process is a bit confusing . I hate to suggest but it sounds like u may want to start from all bare metal again. You mention finish metal work with a coat of filler ? prime, sand, check for high spots and shrink ? you mean heat shrink and tap ?? This should all be done before any mud/ filler putty of any sort has touch the vehicle . Metal work is what it says "metal " there are no filler or primer used in this process . Heating , hammer dolly , pic n file ect. Is your metal finishing . Then your filler / putty, and then your high build and final sealer as your last " detail " step if you want to call it !....... No one says it's easy hahah !
good luck
Quote from: Canadian1968 on July 15, 2016, 09:31:24 AM
Quote from: green69rt on July 14, 2016, 10:25:32 PM
This was a case of a lot of different layers of various things over the years. I took this time to remove almost everything while I looked for high and low spots. The high spots look like places that I just got too vigorous with the sandpaper. If you look it's almost always on the top curve of the fenders. The low spots look more legit. I pretty much put a skim coat on everything. I think the method is to do all the metal work, which may involve more than one coat of filler or primer then end up with a primer coated shell. Now sand it all down to reveal the high and low spots. Fill the low spots and shrink the high spots to get closer to all at one level. Now sand till everything is really close and then spray a high build "primer/surfacer" to get that last little bit of smoothness. Now the final blocking and a final layer of primer to seal everything.
I think I am close to shooting some primer/surfacer such as "featherfill". The biggest problem that I am having is that the body lines that I expect to show up are just not there. I looked thru some threads and I can see the body lines (kind of jealous) but getting them to show up on my car seems to be really hard. The AMD fenders have really soft folds and bends. Getting them to have nice sharp body lines is a chore. Is this normal?
Edit...now that I look at the pictures I posted it looks like the high spots are on the lower parts of the car. I think I will go out and look at the car again.....
your process is a bit confusing . I hate to suggest but it sounds like u may want to start from all bare metal again. You mention finish metal work with a coat of filler ? prime, sand, check for high spots and shrink ? you mean heat shrink and tap ?? This should all be done before any mud/ filler putty of any sort has touch the vehicle . Metal work is what it says "metal " there are no filler or primer used in this process . Heating , hammer dolly , pic n file ect. Is your metal finishing . Then your filler / putty, and then your high build and final sealer as your last " detail " step if you want to call it !....... No one says it's easy hahah !
good luck
The confusion is due to my lack of the right terms and being new at this. Been working on the car for years. When I did the "metal" work I shot the result with primer to keep the rust at bay. On a few spots I put some filler over weld seams to even them out, then primer on that. Now as I get ready for paint I didn't remember what was on the car or how many layers. Plus the doors where repaired by a previous owner (I found rust under some of the old filler.) So, I decided to take just about everything off, at least till I could see bare metal in most spots. I sanded all the primer I had shot till it was mostly gone or until previous filler jobs were visible (mostly on the doors.) Looks like a lot of primer on the car but almost all the primer I put on is on the floor of my garage now. I think I will take HemiHamptons advice and reskim the quarters, door and front fenders now and use this opportunity to try to get the center body line restored.
When I was sanding everything down to remove the old layers (used 12" and 16" blocks on the straight panels) all the highs and lows started showing up. The tops of the quarters (where my weld seams are) ended up being so straight that I judged that they didn't need filler, just a touch of high build primer. The sides that HH marked needed considerable filler. As I was getting closer to the surfacer I started noticing the body lines and that's my biggest problem now.
So...back to the sanding blocks.
Any Updates? :scratchchin: LEON.
Quote from: hemi-hampton on August 05, 2016, 10:48:24 PM
Any Updates? :scratchchin: LEON.
It's been so hot here, in Houston, that I can only stand to work in the garage for an hour or two a couple times a week. I've been working on the front fenders, trying to establish the body lines. More pics soon.
Just so Leon won't get frustrated about not seeing any progress.....
First pic is the same as the previous one (renamed.)
Second pic is after I completely reskimed the area and sanded it again. Leon, is this what you think it should look like?
Third pic is of the side of the car. Two things going on. First, I've been going over this area with the sanding blocks,being careful to not break thru the primer (worked mostly.) Second I was trying to restore that center body line (called "belt line"?) That's the masking tape you see. The rest of the side looked pretty flat to me, what do you think from the picture?
Visually it looks better but I'd have to feel it & see it in person to know for sure. Can you feel the bare metal spots, do they feel like high spots? If they feel high you might have to hammer & dolly them or use a spoon to get them feeling better. LEON.
Quote from: hemi-hampton on August 17, 2016, 12:49:04 AM
Visually it looks better but I'd have to feel it & see it in person to know for sure. Can you feel the bare metal spots, do they feel like high spots? If they feel high you might have to hammer & dolly them or use a spoon to get them feeling better. LEON.
The bare spots are where I just barely broke thru. Should have stopped when I saw the filler thin out and left just a fine coat on. But.... The rest of the fender feels very flat to me, I also took a machine ruler and went over the whole thing to see if I could feel any highs or lows. Nothing showed up. I'm going to go over it one more time. Lot of work on these things if you want it perfect. Now I'm wondering just how perfect do I want it?
You are on the right path now. But as far as how perfect do you want it. Make it as good as you possibly can. Things can go wrong there's no need to build them into it.
I prefer to prime in between coats of filler. I think the different batches don't feather quite as well unsealed. That usually means its filler from one end of the panel to the other.
a little tip. if your not already doing so is to put clean shop towel, old t-shirt or something similar under your hand as you feel the panel for low and high spots . The material between your hand and the panel will mask the different texture of the different materials ( bond , paint, metal ect. ) that can sometimes trick you into thinking there are spots that aren't really there ! I also like to do a few passes and look in the opposite direction. Let your hand be your eyes Jedi !!
Quote from: Canadian1968 on August 22, 2016, 07:30:56 PM
a little tip. if your not already doing so is to put clean shop towel, old t-shirt or something similar under your hand as you feel the panel for low and high spots . The material between your hand and the panel will mask the different texture of the different materials ( bond , paint, metal ect. ) that can sometimes trick you into thinking there are spots that aren't really there ! I also like to do a few passes and look in the opposite direction. Let your hand be your eyes Jedi !!
Thanks, I'll give it a shot today.
Still going at it. In the beginning, I thought I would take a short cut and just do where I can feel something. I do that spot and something shows up around the spot,then I have to expand the area that I skim coat, then further and further. I end up skim coating the whole panel. Did that on one door so just decided to do whole panels. I guess you painters already knew this didn't you! The only thing I didn't have to touch was the trunk lid. Small consolation.
"I guess you painters already knew this didn't you!"
YES.
Quote from: green69rt on August 23, 2016, 12:32:45 PM
Still going at it. In the beginning, I thought I would take a short cut and just do where I can feel something. I do that spot and something shows up around the spot,then I have to expand the area that I skim coat, then further and further. I end up skim coating the whole panel. Did that on one door so just decided to do whole panels. I guess you painters already knew this didn't you! The only thing I didn't have to touch was the trunk lid. Small consolation.
That's big actually! The deck lid sucks to mud. It's very soft and has to be float sanded very lightly.
Quote from: Charger-Bodie on August 23, 2016, 04:05:45 PM
Quote from: green69rt on August 23, 2016, 12:32:45 PM
Still going at it. In the beginning, I thought I would take a short cut and just do where I can feel something. I do that spot and something shows up around the spot,then I have to expand the area that I skim coat, then further and further. I end up skim coating the whole panel. Did that on one door so just decided to do whole panels. I guess you painters already knew this didn't you! The only thing I didn't have to touch was the trunk lid. Small consolation.
That's big actually! The deck lid sucks to mud. It's very soft and has to be float sanded very lightly.
I have learned that sanding the big sheets of metal require a light touch. Press too hard and the metal flexes and gives false highs and lows. Just pushing a 6" block across it and up and down didn't reveal any spots so I just sanded a lot of the old primer off and let it be.
Quote from: green69rt on August 23, 2016, 05:12:55 PM
Quote from: Charger-Bodie on August 23, 2016, 04:05:45 PM
Quote from: green69rt on August 23, 2016, 12:32:45 PM
Still going at it. In the beginning, I thought I would take a short cut and just do where I can feel something. I do that spot and something shows up around the spot,then I have to expand the area that I skim coat, then further and further. I end up skim coating the whole panel. Did that on one door so just decided to do whole panels. I guess you painters already knew this didn't you! The only thing I didn't have to touch was the trunk lid. Small consolation.
That's big actually! The deck lid sucks to mud. It's very soft and has to be float sanded very lightly.
Basically any panel with an under structure takes a light touch. Hoods and deck lids are worst but roofs have a few braces to be careful with too. Newer cars have even more soft panels
I have learned that sanding the big sheets of metal require a light touch. Press too hard and the metal flexes and gives false highs and lows. Just pushing a 6" block across it and up and down didn't reveal any spots so I just sanded a lot of the old primer off and let it be.
I haven't given up, just been slow with getting anything done. So, I final got the whole car skimmed and sanded front-to-back. Everything but the trunk lid and hood. While I was sanding those to rough up the old primer (remove most of the EDP from AMD) it was so smooth that it didn't need it IMHO. Anyway, it is what it is. That's pic #1. While I was doing all the sanding I was trying to prime off bare spots with some Rustoleum primer which was a disaster. It stayed gummy and would wipe off with degreaser so I took it all off and then bought a couple of cans of the stuff in pic #2. That worked fine and I didn't have to load up the paint gun every day or two. Pic #3 is the other side, done. Then just for grins I thought I'd go around the car and sand up all those spots that were curvy. I had mostly ignored. Like the tail light panel, what could possibly be wrong with it? It was original and should still be in fine condition, straight and flat. Wrong, needed some work, pic #4.
I keep saying I'm done with stuff and then find more to do but I finally think I'm getting done with primer and sanding (well almost.) Still need to block out the Hi-build primer. Since I've been spending so much time and effort getting everything smooth I've noticed that sometimes, when I go out to the garage, it looks like something is living in the attic of the garage and is crapping on my car. It would stain the primer and I would have to sand it down and respray. Got tired of that real quick so now I cover the car every day with a bunch of old sheets. Makes the car look like an explosion in a laundry :eek2: Pic#1.
Pic #2 shows the car all masked off. Pic #3 shows the car with a couple of fresh coats of epoxy primer. And finally the Slicksand (pic #4). It turned out very close in color to the epoxy so it might be a little touchy doing the final blocking to make sure I don't go too far. I had problems with the Slicksand because if sets up so quickly. Only about 30-40 minutes working time. The first charge to my spray gun started to gel up inside the gun before I realized what was happening. I panicked and dumped the load and quickly cleaned out the gun by running some reducer through it. Second load I added some reducer to it and that extended the pot life but still it a hurry to get it out of the gun. The added reducer also helped with the spray volume. I used a 2.3 tip and set the inlet pressure as high as I could but that stuff is still thick!
Now, time to get the sand paper and blocks out and finish this puppy.
:o :o :o AWESOME Mitch !!!! lookin GREAT!!
Quote from: cdr on November 04, 2016, 05:14:33 PM
:o :o :o AWESOME Mitch !!!! lookin GREAT!!
Thanks Charlie, notice that I now have visible body lines!!
Looking great!!
Quote from: green69rt on November 04, 2016, 05:22:44 PM
Quote from: cdr on November 04, 2016, 05:14:33 PM
:o :o :o AWESOME Mitch !!!! lookin GREAT!!
Thanks Charlie, notice that I now have visible body lines!!
I noticed that too. Dang it looks good. Spent the last couple days at work during slow times reading over yours and a few other heavy body repair threads.
How many coats of slick sand did you put on it. What are you going to start blocking/sanding it with? LEON.
Quote from: hemi-hampton on November 07, 2016, 10:52:25 PM
How many coats of slick sand did you put on it. What are you going to start blocking/sanding it with? LEON.
I really tried to get two coats on the quarters, doors, front fenders, maybe only one or so on the trunk lid and hood. I thought to start with 220 grit then finish off with 320. Just talked to a painter. He suggested that I do my plan then shoot another layer of Slicksand then do 400 and finish with wet 600. Seems like a lot of work. :shruggy: I haven't even started the first blocking. I really had a bad time with the Slick sand, as I said. I'm not looking forward to shooting more.
Some people in here will call me crazy but I'd recommend 4 coats & start blocking with 80. LEON.
Quote from: hemi-hampton on November 11, 2016, 08:58:35 PM
Some people in here will call me crazy but I'd recommend 4 coats & start blocking with 80. LEON.
I agree
When it's smooth from 80 grit blocking switch to 180 on the same block and prime with three or four coats of urethane primer surfacer . It will final block easy as pie then.
Quote from: Charger-Bodie on November 12, 2016, 09:57:45 AM
When it's smooth from 80 grit blocking switch to 180 on the same block and prime with three or four coats of urethane primer surfacer . It will final block easy as pie then.
I have to assume that the 80/180 will take almost all of the slicksand off without breaking thru to bare metal. Just down to the epoxy. use 300-400 on the urethane? Reading the Slicksand can, it says to use 180-320 to start and finish with 400. Using the 80-180 makes things go faster? Didn't even think about the urethane step.
Quote from: green69rt on November 12, 2016, 11:51:57 AM
Quote from: Charger-Bodie on November 12, 2016, 09:57:45 AM
When it's smooth from 80 grit blocking switch to 180 on the same block and prime with three or four coats of urethane primer surfacer . It will final block easy as pie then.
I have to assume that the 80/180 will take almost all of the slicksand off without breaking thru to bare metal. Just down to the epoxy. use 300-400 on the urethane? Reading the Slicksand can, it says to use 180-320 to start and finish with 400. Using the 80-180 makes things go faster? Didn't even think about the urethane step.
80 just shapes up and sharpens the lines nice. That is part of why need four ,five coats. It's really nice to have that build when blocking because it makes for few to none on the spot repair areas. Nice and smooth blocked slicknsand makes for really smooth final primer. And that makes it nice and easy to final block .
Do you guys not find that 80 is a bit coarse for your normal high build primers ? Curious as to what brand paper you use to ? Our shop has just started to use the new 3m cubitron paper , this stuff cuts like crazy ! 180 cuts like some 80s would !
Cubitron is great , but in this case I'd still start with 80. As for normal surfacer such as urethane, no I would not use 80 on that.
Just to get in the discussion, when I shot the epoxy I noticed a lot of sanding marks showing thru. I'm assuming from the 80 I was using. Then I shot the polyester and they were gone. I was assuming as I went thru the different primers (poly, urethane) that I would use finer grit to avoid the scratch marks. Or should I just count on the last coats to fill all the scratch marks? In other words use 80 to speed up the process, count on the urethane to self level and use something finer to make the last cut?
I'm starting to come around to the fact that I need to shoot another 2 or 3 coats of polyester primer. Groan!!!
Once you sand the poly with 80 you need to sand the 80 grit scratches out with 180 or even 220. But not finer as the primer needs mechanical adhesion.
Quote from: Charger-Bodie on November 13, 2016, 12:02:41 AM
Once you sand the poly with 80 you need to sand the 80 grit scratches out with 180 or even 220. But not finer as the primer needs mechanical adhesion.
I happen to have a roll of 220 on hand so I guess I'll use it to scuff up the current poly before I add more coats.
I've been lying low about progress on the car because of the sanding and holidays etc. Also didn't want to say anything because I've had so many false starts getting the old girl painted. But....I finally got on the waiting list for a shop. It's on the north side of Houston, called The Rehab Garage. Got on their waiting list then in early Jan they called and said they have a lull in their work and if I was ready they could come get it, I said YES!! The painter had been to my house and we talked about what I wanted and he nodded his head a lot. Anyway.....
So I rolled it out of the garage, as you can see I had been shooting some polyester and blocking. The painter guy said it looked pretty good for an amateur in his garage (thanks to all those that gave me advice.)
Setting in the driveway waiting on transport (Pics #1 and 2.) If you look closely you can see the front valance hanging out the pass side window.
Empty garage (Pic #3.) Time to clean it up.
More on next post.
Driving away (Pic #1.)
Fading into the distance (Pic#2.)
In the shop (Pic #3.)
They found a couple of places that the painter said should be skim coated and blocked. They took the doors, fenders, hood and truck lid off. They also skimmed the trunk lid. After he showed me how to test for waves, I could really feel them in the trunk lid. Then they sprayed the whole car with polyester, blocked, high build, blocked and when I saw it today they had it all blocked down to a wet 600. Tomorrow, they painter said he would be mixing paint and start shooting the loose panels, then remask the body (to prevent and dust or crap from flying off the old masking into the new paint.) Probably get the body in color next week. If it all comes off, they will have had the car for only 5 weeks, I was thinking 3 months if I was lucky.
Pics #1 and 2 shows the car in the booth being prepped for polyester. Those guys are a couple of the crew.
Pic #3 is the garage. It was an old oil field service company building that the car shop took over. Some huge abandoned equipment setting around. They took it because it had enough floor space. Now they've grown so much that they're moving to a bigger facility a little ways away next month. They're trying to get my car done so it won't be part of the move.
:2thumbs:
:popcrn: :2thumbs:
Awesome. Can't wait to see it all green and shiny. Love the green Chargers!
Quote from: Charger-Bodie on February 15, 2017, 07:24:36 AM
Awesome. Can't wait to see it all green and shiny. Love the green Chargers!
I REALLY can't wait! It's been a long time coming.
Awesome!!! congrats man, I know the feeling!! :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
Congrats :2thumbs: LEON.
Well, this is exciting! :popcrn:
:popcrn: :2thumbs:
Quote from: Charger-Bodie on February 15, 2017, 07:24:36 AM
Awesome. Can't wait to see it all green and shiny. Love the green Chargers!
Another GREEN one! :2thumbs: :popcrn:
Got the first pictures from the paint shop with the final paint applied!
THIS IS SO FRIGGIN AWESOME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am more exited to see your Charger getting paint than I was when I painted mine.
:coolgleamA:
:2thumbs:
Awesome!
Quote from: cdr on February 23, 2017, 09:42:06 PM
THIS IS SO FRIGGIN AWESOME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am more exited to see your Charger getting paint than I was when I painted mine.
:coolgleamA:
:2thumbs:
Guy said he would move the parts out tomorrow and roll the body in. Still working on the hood and quarter panel extensions and the side marker holders. If the body gets painted in the next few working days the painter said they would start putting it back together and ship it home in a week or two! I will be so happy to see it back in the garage. :icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big:
:2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
That looks awesome! Congrats man, I know you've been dying to get to this stage. :2thumbs:
Looks great
Oooooo shiny :coolgleamA:
Quote from: cdr on February 23, 2017, 09:42:06 PM
THIS IS SO FRIGGIN AWESOME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am more exited to see your Charger getting paint than I was when I painted mine.
:coolgleamA:
:2thumbs:
Same
So, the body is now in the paint booth. I was over there today and the painter showed me a little hiccup. Seems like there was something on the car that bled thru the sealer. If he hadn't showed it to me I wouldn't have noticed. He was the one that cleaned it so he is pretty sure that it was nothing he left behind. It's a funny blemish, a line from the front of the quarter that goes about half way back. We speculated that when the car was being carried to the shop something that was thrown off another car (oil, gas, windshield fluid, who knows??) hit the car and ran back. It really looked like something liquid ran back on the top surface. It didn't show up till the sealer was sprayed. Anyway, the painter is going to sand that part down and reseal and take another look. If that doesn't work it will have to be taken down to bare metal again (oh my wallet!!) If the sanding works he will spray color tomorrow. Then, later, spray the hood, quarter extensions and the side marker pieces.
Picture below.
Thanks for the update!!
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Quote from: cdr on March 01, 2017, 06:55:42 PM
Thanks for the update!!
:popcrn:
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Hey Charlie, you're getting real creative with the moving popcorn!
The lines look really good! :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn:
A big CONGRATS on getting some paint on your Charger ! It is going to be awesome to see it in its' full-paint-glory. This has been a long time coming and you are going to be so proud and motivated to get the rest of the car finished!
It wont be long now!
Got some pictures from the paint shop yesterday. :icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big:
Man that looks awesome! :2thumbs:
:drool5: :2guns: :bump: :punkrocka: :woohoo: :buff: :dance: :nixon: :drive: :notworthy: :boogie: :vert:
:cheers: congratulations man, looks awesome!
This is really making me miss my f8 car even more! Love the f5 too . Congrats . The fun part is about to start!
THAT LOOKS REALLY GREAT!
man I can't wait to get mine in paint
WOW looks great! Congrats!
Pat
LOOKS FANTASTIC CONGRATULATIONS :cheers: well deserved but more pictures more pictures :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie:
Look what happened!
1. Arrival
2. Unloading
3,4. In the garage :icon_smile_big:
Oh hell ya!!! :cheers: :cheers: :drool5: :coolgleamA: :icon_smile_big:
This is not the end of the paint story. The car still needs color sanding and buffing. The painter said that he could keep the car thru the shops relocation or send it home to me. He recommended that it come home for a while and let the paint cure really well. It wouldn't be in any danger of being banged up during the moving process. That worked for me because I was worried that I could scratch or ding the car while I was putting it together. This way he would have a chance to fix any damage I might do. Also it gives me a chance to do some assembly on it. He said that they would pick it up later and return it to the new shop for the "cut and buff" (that right term?) It does have some small bits of trash sitting on the paint and some orange peel that should come right out. Since they transport for free I went along.
Right now it sits with 3 coats of color and 3 of clear.
Oh, and they didn't do a very good job of putting it back together because the gaps are all messed up so I get to go thru that again, yeah!
That looks sweet! Too bad you have to reallign it but that seems to be the only negative here. You'll be doing a lot of fun stuff from now on! :2thumbs:
And yes, cut and buff. :yesnod:
Lookin GREAT!!!! :2thumbs:
Did the same thing on mine pretty much. They sanded out the first clear coat and then hit it with 2 more. They did some minor cut and buff, but for the most part left it in case I scratch it on assembly and then it will be totally cut, buffed and waxed when all done.. then the trim installed. The only thing that is totally cut / polished and waxed on mine is my hood and scoops so I can assemble the ramcharger air box etc and not have to worry about buffing around the scoops later on.
Now get to work... it doesn't go back together as fast as it came apart :lol: !!
It looks like a different color green under the hood & in the engine compartment. Or is that just the lighting :scratchchin: LEON.
Partly the lighting and probably partly the fact that the engine bay is SS and the outside is BC/CC.
(Edit to get rid of the babbling nonsense.)
Congrats on getting some color on it. Looks really good :2thumbs:
:drool5:
I'm going to put this under paint just because it's convenient. Got the splash shields installed under the fenders. I have been using Resto Rick's undercoating. I like it but it is messy.
First pic shows the splash shields laying on my work bench. Just a hint, do not install the top gasket before it is in the car. It's easier without it clipped in place.
Pic 2 shows the bottom gasket in place. It will be obvious that this has to be attached before mounting.
Pic # 3 , installed. getting the gaskets to seat right takes some work. I used a bent piece of spring steel to make a little hook to pull the gasket into place.
Pic #4 shows where I sprayed more undercoat to cover up joints, etc. What a messy process, even got it in the hair on my arms (short sleeve shirt.)
A final pic of where I tried to spray undercoat on the underside of the front fenders. I hope this gives some protection from the tires throwing gravel around.
Looking good! :2thumbs:
Looks great man. Me personally I'm not a big fan of undercoating that's why I used Bedliner, a lot more durable. I've debated on my painting my 70 RT back FF4 and I think I will. I'll be using PPG Deltron.
I really didn't want to send the car back to the paint shop for the final cut and buff. Too much money. Tried for myself. Took some work but it's done. All the dirt and trash that was sitting in the paint is gone, and probably 99.99% of the orange peal is gone. Just need the final polish now. I followed the procedure in this video.
https://garage.eastwood.com/eastwood-video/how-to-color-sand-buff-your-cars-paint-on-hands-on-cars-ep-15-eastwood/
Pic #1 is before.
Pic # 2 is after sanding but before buffing.
Pic #3 is the sandpaper I used and the nib file, all from Eastwood.
I'm going to let it sit in this condition for a while. Got some brake parts in and need to put them on the car, also need to buy the buffer and pads.
looks great. Are you going to leave it finished with 3000? that what your last picture looKS like ? Just remember the longer you leave the clear coat the harder it will be to buff !
Quote from: Canadian1968 on June 16, 2017, 05:55:13 AM
looks great. Are you going to leave it finished with 3000? that what your last picture looKS like ? Just remember the longer you leave the clear coat the harder it will be to buff !
No, I'm not going to leave it at 3000.
And, I didn't realize that I need to buff sooner rather than later. I guess I'll get on the stick and order up the buffer and compound.
Depending on the clear used, sometimes better sooner then later. For Example. If you let Polyurethane Clear sit for a week & then try to sand or rub, forget it, it will be hard as a rock. LEON.
Quote from: hemi-hampton on June 16, 2017, 07:20:43 PM
Depending on the clear used, sometimes better sooner then later. For Example. If you let Polyurethane Clear sit for a week & then try to sand or rub, forget it, it will be hard as a rock. LEON.
I did the sanding after the car set for about 6 weeks and it seemed to sand fairly easy. At least I think so, no experience in this sort of thing.
If it sanded easily after 6 weeks you should be fine. Actually I prefer to wait, because if you sand & rub to soon, like within the first week the paint will dull out & get hazy over time because it is still drying. If you wait to totally dry, once rubbed it will not dull out or get hazy but keep a good shine. no sand scratch swelling or shrinking if totally dry. Most Paint Manufacturers would recommend 90 days to be totally dry. some clears may be to hard by then. LEON.
Quote from: hemi-hampton on June 17, 2017, 05:29:41 PM
If it sanded easily after 6 weeks you should be fine. Actually I prefer to wait, because if you sand & rub to soon, like within the first week the paint will dull out & get hazy over time because it is still drying. If you wait to totally dry, once rubbed it will not dull out or get hazy but keep a good shine. no sand scratch swelling or shrinking if totally dry. Most Paint Manufacturers would recommend 90 days to be totally dry. some clears may be to hard by then. LEON.
I'll have to look back, but it must be getting close to 4 months since the paint was sprayed. It will probably be another few weeks before I get to buffing it out. Sounds like it won't be a problem. You'll see the results on here.
Quote from: hemi-hampton on June 17, 2017, 05:29:41 PM
If it sanded easily after 6 weeks you should be fine. Actually I prefer to wait, because if you sand & rub to soon, like within the first week the paint will dull out & get hazy over time because it is still drying. If you wait to totally dry, once rubbed it will not dull out or get hazy but keep a good shine. no sand scratch swelling or shrinking if totally dry. Most Paint Manufacturers would recommend 90 days to be totally dry. some clears may be to hard by then. LEON.
spot on advise :2thumbs:
Started buffing yesterday. I started with the front valance since it's off the car and I can stand up to do it. Used Eastwood's Liquid Ice system. Seems fairly straight forward. Three steps, wool pad, blue pad and then a final white pad for final polish. Pic shows half the valance done. After using the system I tried using just the blue and white pads (skip the wool pad) and couldn't tell the difference. I think using that 3000 grit paper made things so nice that I could skip a step. I did have to be careful around the edges to make sure I didn't buff off all the paint.
Sure is messy though, the pads tend to fling the liquid everywhere.
tape all the edges, if you dont you will understand why.
With the 3000 you can probably skip the wool pad step but i'm not sure what your foam pads are made for. Nowadays you can just start out with a Cutter Foam pad to start your rubbing. I'd also have someone hold it down. If the wheel catches a edge it can go flying on the floor if nobody holding it steady. LEON.
Quote from: hemi-hampton on July 24, 2017, 09:14:08 PM
With the 3000 you can probably skip the wool pad step but i'm not sure what your foam pads are made for. Nowadays you can just start out with a Cutter Foam pad to start your rubbing. I'd also have someone hold it down. If the wheel catches a edge it can go flying on the floor if nobody holding it steady. LEON.
Leon
I don't know what the foam pads are for either, I'm just using them according to the instruction and the video. As far as skipping the wool step, I took a real close look at a part where I didn't use it. I could still see some light scratches so I'll continue to use it. The parts I've done so far are pretty much how I wanted it, maybe a 2 ft paint job (for me and my old eyes.) I can now see some little pits in the paint and it is not 100% mirror-like but better than I wanted when I started. When you say hold it down I assume you're talking about the piece I'm buffing not the buffer itself, and yes I came close once or twice on the front valance before I figured out how to hold the buffer. Technique and practice count.
CDR
Yes I've already discovered the problem with edges. It wasn't bad but a 1 or 2 inch piece of the edge of one of the holes in the valance shows a thin line of primer. You'd have to search for it but I know it's there. The paint can get kind of thin at edges and ridges and buffing can go right thru it if not very careful.
Well I've got to say I find this whole thread rather inspiring :2thumbs:
Most people I know & have rubbed with will usually go over a spot one time & then move onto the next finer rubbing step. I'll go over a spot (usually like 2 foot by 2 foot spot) always at least twice, 3 or 4 times if need be to get all the fine sanding scratches out. Then move on to next step. Yes, I was referring to the part when I said hold it. even if experianced just the wrong move or angle can send it flying, especially if a small lightweight part. Good luck. LEON.
Sure is fun watching the color pop out while buffing!
After all that work and time...!! glad to see you're still at it :2thumbs:
Cutting and buffing in the Houston summer heat is no fun, but I got it done. I tried to take a closeup of the top of the driver quarter to compare to my earlier post but I don't know if you can tell a difference. I can, all the trash, orange peel and most other defects are gone. Still some dimples and very light scratches here and there.
Pic#1 is the closeup of the quarter.
Pic#2 is the whole car. Even my wife thinks it looks better and she thought I was crazy for going thru this step.
I ended up using the wool pad on each area 3 or 4 times (like Hemi-Hampton said) before moving on to the next step. Using it just once left more fine scratches in the paint then I could tolerate.
Thanks to all of you for helping me through this difficult process, especially to Hemi-hampton, Patronus, Charger-Bodie and CDR. I wonder how it would have turned out if you hadn't chimed in.
So now I need to do a little research on here to figure what paint to use on the tail panel.
Looks good, and yes, we can see the difference just by looking at the sail panel area. :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
it looks AWESOME !!!!!! if it where me I would get a qt of summit hot rod black single stage, it is a catalyzed paint & very durable. others will have a different opinion.
"I ended up using the wool pad on each area 3 or 4 times (like Hemi-Hampton said) before moving on to the next step. Using it just once left more fine scratches in the paint then I could tolerate.
Thanks to all of you for helping me through this difficult process, especially to Hemi-hampton, Patronus, Charger-Bodie and CDR. I wonder how it would have turned out if you hadn't chimed in."
:2thumbs: Looks nice now. Glad I could help. LEON. :2thumbs:
Great work!! :drool5: :cheers:
Quote from: cdr on August 01, 2017, 08:09:39 PM
it looks AWESOME !!!!!! if it where me I would get a qt of summit hot rod black single stage, it is a catalyzed paint & very durable. others will have a different opinion.
Did you use the satin or matte? Black primer underneath?
you should be able to just sand the clear & paint on the hotrod black. Satin
Quote from: cdr on August 23, 2017, 08:25:57 PM
you should be able to just sand the clear & paint on the hotrod black. Satin
OK, I got the clear sanded. Something wrong with the Summit web site, couldn't get their paint but Eastwood has the same so got a quart of theirs. Thanks Charlie.
Quote from: green69rt on August 24, 2017, 07:35:17 AM
Quote from: cdr on August 23, 2017, 08:25:57 PM
you should be able to just sand the clear & paint on the hotrod black. Satin
OK, I got the clear sanded. Something wrong with the Summit web site, couldn't get their paint but Eastwood has the same so got a quart of theirs. Thanks Charlie.
dont forget the activator.
Quote from: cdr on August 24, 2017, 07:43:24 AM
Quote from: green69rt on August 24, 2017, 07:35:17 AM
Quote from: cdr on August 23, 2017, 08:25:57 PM
you should be able to just sand the clear & paint on the hotrod black. Satin
OK, I got the clear sanded. Something wrong with the Summit web site, couldn't get their paint but Eastwood has the same so got a quart of theirs. Thanks Charlie.
dont forget the activator.
Yeah, bought a kit with paint, catalyst and some reducer. About $70 shipped.
Got the tail panel looking like I want. I used Eastwood's Satin black. I thought the satin was still too glossy so I wet sanded with 1000, then 1500, then 2000 to get even more of the gloss out. I stopped at 2000 because the paint was really smooth and still mostly flat. Looks pretty close to me. (pic #1)
I think I'll put the tail trim on now. (pic #2)
And, forgot to mention, put the door and trunk gaskets on. I rolling now!!
Looking great!! :cheers: :cheers: :popcrn:
just asking, is the black supposed to go past the outside of the trim ?
Quote from: cdr on October 26, 2017, 05:26:52 PM
just asking, is the black supposed to go past the outside of the trim ?
Good question. I just assumed it went right up to the quarter extension. There is a little space between the chrome trim and the tail panel extension. I painted mine black. Is that the space you're talking about?
Quote from: green69rt on October 26, 2017, 09:18:46 PM
Quote from: cdr on October 26, 2017, 05:26:52 PM
just asking, is the black supposed to go past the outside of the trim ?
Good question. I just assumed it went right up to the quarter extension. There is a little space between the chrome trim and the tail panel extension. I painted mine black. Is that the space you're talking about?
yes
The tape line should be under the chrome eyebrow trim.
For reassurance that what I know to be true, is true (and having just spent 3 days reading most of Geno's build thread), about 1/10 down the page and also about 3/4 down the page:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,48725.1175.html
Quote from: igozumn on October 27, 2017, 03:09:38 PM
The tape line should be under the chrome eyebrow trim.
For reassurance that what I know to be true, is true (and having just spent 3 days reading most of Geno's build thread), about 1/10 down the page and also about 3/4 down the page:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,48725.1175.html
Yeap, I see it. Nothing I am willing to do about it now so it's going to stay the way it is till next paint job (if that ever happens. ::) )
It may not end up looking that bad, as it might end up looking like just a continuation of the gap between the trunk lid and the chrome trim/tail panel.
Quote from: igozumn on November 03, 2017, 09:38:01 AM
It may not end up looking that bad, as it might end up looking like just a continuation of the gap between the trunk lid and the chrome trim/tail panel.
Yes, you almost have to squat down and look in that particular spot to see it. 99.9% of folks won't look and most of those won't know it's wrong. I have been looking around on this site and I seen several other cars that have made the same mistake. I'm not going to spend any worry time over it.
Quote from: green69rt on November 03, 2017, 10:05:54 AM
Quote from: igozumn on November 03, 2017, 09:38:01 AM
It may not end up looking that bad, as it might end up looking like just a continuation of the gap between the trunk lid and the chrome trim/tail panel.
Yes, you almost have to squat down and look in that particular spot to see it. 99.9% of folks won't look and most of those won't know it's wrong. I have been looking around on this site and I seen several other cars that have made the same mistake. I'm not going to spend any worry time over it.
I wouldn't worry too much about the "correctness". I did the blackout treatment on the tail light panel of my 70, that never even had that as an option. But that's the way I wanted it to look.