Hi guys!
As we promised...here it is...
Our reproduction of the Charger 69 center grille made in SWEDEN!
As you see on the pictures there are some small readjustments that has to be made just after it has been taken out of the machine.
This one comes right out of the machine without any readjustment done.
Awesome! You really did it! Now wondering how it will hold up and about pricing. Looking forward to the 1968 grill too! :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
:faint: :dance: :dance: :faint: damn :drool5: .......... :yesnod: i'm amazed this looks awesome !! nice work !! :bow:
how does it fit with the rest of the grill parts ?? would be intrested in seeing it built up with the new part into a complete grill using all the other original parts ! , but may be leave the new part in a raw plastic state , so it shows how it aligns up
think your on a winner with this part Dude :cheers: :cheers: :yesnod:
:popcrn:
Thanks guys!
Yes we can take some pictures with it installed with the corners.
By the way, we are going to produce the corners as well now.
Quote from: bobfist on June 23, 2011, 03:13:21 PM
Thanks guys!
Yes we can take some pictures with it installed with the corners.
By the way, we are going to produce the corners as well now.
Wow! :popcrn: :drool5:
You are going to have a LOT of friends. :yesnod:
Props for taking on the task and producing on it. :2thumbs:
Quote from: bobfist on June 23, 2011, 03:13:21 PM
Thanks guys!
Yes we can take some pictures with it installed with the corners.
By the way, we are going to produce the corners as well now.
:2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:
Good job!!!!!! :2thumbs:You deserve alot of applause just for the fact that you actually took the initiative to do it. Now comes all the ?'s,how it fits with original headlight buckets,trim,price,shipping to the states,how many you gonna run off,etc,etc.
All moldings and installation points will fit perfect.
We runs as many as we have to
will you do 70 charger grilles
Yes we are talking about doing the 70 grille as well.
how long before they might be ready?
We dont know, the biggest problem are that we dont have any 70 grille, and that some one are willing to borrow one to us is impossible i think.
I guess that we are going to do the corners next and then see if we go with the 68 or the 70
us 70 guys are dying for it .
Very Nice! How much $$$ are you going to charge for one?
Well I must say I am impressed it made it this far. I did have my doubts.
What is the material it's being made from?
Congratulations Bob and team!!!!! Fantastic job, I may buy one just to have a spare.
Tack för allt arbete, FoU och passion du och ditt team har lagt ned på detta galler projektet. Bra gjort sir!
:2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
That grill looks great! I might buy one just to have a good excuse for buying a car to put around it.
:2thumbs: Looks great so far.
NICE !
I am impressed. Looks great so far. Can't wait to see that thing match up with the rest of the grille pieces.
Great initiative. WELL done.
Can you give us any specific info about the type of plastic material that the grille is cast from?
The type of plastic are 8051
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awesome!!
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Quote from: bobfist on June 25, 2011, 01:43:05 PM
we are able to sell them for 1200 each.
Cue sad trombone :lol:
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When you say "each" do you mean per piece or for a center piece and two corners?
To have any chance to spit them out we mean the center piece.
We want to know what you guys are willing to pay, i read about Plastic Premier and we are not like them.
Just talked to my coworkers and we made a decision just to sell in Europe to keep the production rolling
You haven't answered what material these are made out of. All that we've seen is a picture so far, so I'm still fairly skeptical at this point.
We wrote that it was made out of the plastic type 8051 Polyolefin, High Heat Resistance High Rigidity
I understand that someones are critical and thats nothing we can do about that.
If it's as good as my 92 Volvo 240 it will be a great piece.
Why don't all the 69 guys look at a volume order or group buy that my help keep the price down is it $1200 Us dollars or 1200 Sweden money.
1200 SEK would be about $180 US.
bobfist,let me say again,great job for what you guys have accomplished.You have to think numerous ways about the product as far as pricing goes.You first have to make it real correct(which it looks dam good already),show test fitting(I mean bolted up all together with the rest of the componenets and installed in a car),get some real public unbiased feedback from people,etc.Then you have to price accordingly to the crowd that has a busted grill and is trying to decide on yours or fix their broken one.Personally,putting aside the investment you are in debt to now,$1,200 seems alittle steep for just the center section needing to be finished off and painted.
Let me give you some examples, the BE/A 1970 Cuda grill comes complete..... the grill,both headlight buckets,all the SS trim,and parking lights,and painted,ready to rock n roll for $1,299.The AAR grill with the chrome inserts for $1,399.
To give a more fair example of a grill in the same type of format as the 69 Charger,meaning just one pice,as I am into Buicks, saw the long awaited 1970 Buick GS grill come out in repo,painted and ready to install is $499.00.
You have to ask yourself this bobfist,do you want to sell 3 of them @ $1,200 or 30 of them @$600.00 ?
I can geuss how most would think ,$1,200 for a new one or fix mine???Large portion will fix theirs,..... $600 for a new one or fix mine,SOLD!!!!!
Just some food for thought.
Many have tried to do what you've done and while I commend you on your effort and accomplishment, the problem lies in selling them...
I too reproduce a few parts for the 1957-58 Plymouths and while there's a sea of folks begging for the parts and complaining why nobody has repopped them, come time to recoup the investment [Private money as well], therein lies the problem...All of a sudden, I see my parts offered for about $100.00 LESS than beat up originals on Evil Bay, yet they are selling those and my repops sit...Good luck selling your parts as they appear to be good repops.
I guess eveybody said the same thing when reopop fenders came out at over $700.00/fender...Now, they are selling like hotcakes. Hold onto about 30 repop grile sections and sooner or later once the entire stock of beatup, smashed, cracked, and generally overpriced originals dry up to nothing, You can bet yours will sell...
HI!
Yes thats the hardest part to get it rolling.
Its the cost for the machine that is the problem.
I see what i can do
honestly, for $180 american dollars for that piece, it is not that bad. The thing that will probably kill us is the shipping over to the USA.
Maybe Bob should clarify whether he meant 1200US or 1200 in his currency.
Quote from: Cooter on June 26, 2011, 02:20:42 AM
I guess eveybody said the same thing when reopop fenders came out at over $700.00/fender...Now, they are selling like hotcakes.
While there were surely
some people complaining, the rest of the world knew they were fairly priced. I needed a fender within a year before they were released and $700 might get you a solid fender, but it wasn't going to be straight. Rusty ones were going for $400-500 all day long. Super clean ones would often go over $1K (NOS ones were CRAZY money). AMD got them out there in a median price range.
In this case, you can buy a decent complete used grille for $1500. In fact, there was a guy at World of Wheels this year that had fully restored grilles, 1968, 1969, and 1970's fully restored, all the actuators, headlights, new trim, etc and the 1968 and 1969's were $1600. Done, ready to drop in.
Quote from: Brock Lee on June 26, 2011, 06:46:31 AM
Quote from: Cooter on June 26, 2011, 02:20:42 AM
I guess eveybody said the same thing when reopop fenders came out at over $700.00/fender...Now, they are selling like hotcakes.
While there were surely some people complaining, the rest of the world knew they were fairly priced. I needed a fender within a year before they were released and $700 might get you a solid fender, but it wasn't going to be straight. Rusty ones were going for $400-500 all day long. Super clean ones would often go over $1K (NOS ones were CRAZY money). AMD got them out there in a median price range.
Honestly, I guess the ones I saw at Carlisle for the past 14 years going for $200.00/fender needing a little rust work must have been a fluke then....
I don't mind having to do a little work to a fender/grille if it means getting it cheaper...I guess the rest of the Charger world doesn't see it that way and is willing to pay the price for using the "easy button" when it comes to bolting on rust free/dent free panels...
If the part is accurate to the original, fits correctly and is durable, it will sell. Please do not exclude the U.S. from your sales market, as any/all orders will help get the production ball rolling. Especially, if only due to a few comments on the cost. Everyone would love to get nice re-popped parts at a huge cost savings, but how realistic is that? You can't buy a old broken, cracked grill for $180, so I assume that the 1200 was in US dollars. But, it would help just to make it clear. It is a focal point of the car and prone to broken parts, so the desire to have a good, quality part is there. Making it affordable, but still profitable will be the key.
As others have said, it would be a huge help to see it installed on a finished car with the other original parts. I believe from the original grille thread you have a project car in progress, I am not sure how far out until completion for a demo. Any semi-local volunteers in your area? I know there were a ton from this site, probably a large number in the U.S..
It would be HUGE for you to find someone reputable and trustworthy from this site, that could show this part(as a loose piece or in a grille assembly) for you, at a large event like Chrysler's at Carlisle or the Mopar Nationals. People will want feedback from at least somebody who has seen and touched the part in person, especially to spend that kind of money. I am not sure what kind of deal would be needed to get that accomplished, as you would have to send one over the the U.S.. I bet some of the long term members, who others would surely backup their character, would show the part for free and send it back to you or better yet find a buyer. I do not have a 69, nor am I in the market for this piece. If I did, I would love to test it out for you. I am close to both of these events, but not sure if I can attend either. If so, I will surely let you know and volunteer. But, I am not as well-known as some of the other members, who are attending Carlisle as a group and may offer to do the same, if you are even interested in something like that.
Best of luck with this next phase and cheers on the effort and product so far! :cheers:
Quote from: BIGBLCK11 on June 26, 2011, 11:47:04 AM
Please do not exclude the U.S. from your sales market.
If this would be the case I can get some to the U.S.A. through my families body shop in The Netherlands.
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Yep, as it goes "You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time."
You are doing a heck of a job so far, just trying to be encouraging.
Quote from: bobfist on June 25, 2011, 01:43:05 PM
We are paying for this production with private money so if we should be able to continue to produce the 68 and the grille corners
we are able to sell them for 1200 each.
If someone are interesting of buying contact me at tony@bobfist.com
Is that 1200 in U.S. currency?
I would also like to know how much this would be in US dollars. I am confused if it is $180 or $1200?? :shruggy:
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Tony,
Just to clarify, you are saying $775 US dollars or your currency?
If the $775.00 US dollars is the asking price, then I could see a few being sold here. ...It does look good in the pics. Made of newer/better materials...
Quote from: Cooter on June 27, 2011, 08:28:46 PM
If the $775.00 US dollars is the asking price, then I could see a few being sold here. ...It does look good in the pics. Made of newer/better materials...
And I bet a lot more than just a few would be sold here if it were quite a bit less than $775. :shruggy: Something like this I could see being a good volume seller if the price were right. I would think a center grille would have to be pretty mangled before many people would spend $700+ US on one. Who knows? That 69 center stick out there just waiting to get pounded so maybe it is worth that to a few people.
Either way there needs to be a third party review on the piece before it's worth even a nickle IMO. I'm of the opinion that the outer headlight surround pices will sell best because they'll work on both the 68 and 69 and frequently the corners are lost when broken so repairs are very difficult.
I'd still like to know the production process involved here. The piece might be heat resistant and rigid but there needs to be some density and thickness too. How does the plastic compare in the thickness compared to the original? How does it compare weight-wise? I can't find much info on 8051 Polyolefin.
Quote from: resq302 on June 27, 2011, 06:38:08 PM
Tony,
Just to clarify, you are saying $775 US dollars or your currency?
It is $775 US dollars because Sweden has no Dollars but Kronen as currency.
thats looking better already!! When will the full grill be ready, don't really want to purchase a part of the grill. Would rather get the Whole grill complete, and how about a price on the whole grill when completed
Just my random thoughts on this... I've seen complete NOS grills for around $5,000 (and they aren't selling). You'd have to beat that price by a large margin I'd think before you'll see brisk sales on a reproduction part. By the time someone ships (imports) and paints this one they'll have close to or more than $1,000 in it. In various talks with other people I've seen estimates of $700-900 for the entire grill (without trim - 5 pieces for 69 and 7 pieces for 68). Of course, if you're dealing with limited quantities/special orders you probably can't come close to that price. I'd certainly pay around $1,500 for a complete grill (which may be higher than others are willing to pay) but anything more than that and I can just have mine repaired. I have spares though - many people don't.
I'm glad someone finally took the initiative. I hope you are successful.
Troy
Thanks guys for all the posts and questions.
Its a mess to set the right price on the parts, our currency (kronan) are much higher than the dollar so the production cost are higher here.
Thats the hard thing to beat then we want to sell for a "ok" price to you guys in the US.
We are talking about to set a even lower price just to get these grills sold so we can make the grille corners.
We also restore some cars so we dont have that much money to spend from our private accounts.
I think $5000 K is high for a complete 69 NOS grille maybe $3500 $4000 grand, for $5000 you better have everything the actuators head lights hoses the whole bingo deal including shipping and insurance. I have a complete NOS grille for a 69, I had allot of offers on it. I have the 3 sections with head light doors and all the trim in NOS, I bought it about over 10 yrs ago its in perfect condition. The guy I bought it from was not heavily into mopars he bought I believe it was a Challenger and didn't even look in the trunk until sometime later and it was sitting in there the whole grille with no trim waiting to be found. I bought the entire trim set about 12 yrs ago.
Quote from: BIGBLCK11 on June 26, 2011, 07:13:51 PM
Yep, as it goes "You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time."
You are doing a heck of a job so far, just trying to be encouraging.
:Twocents:
like i already said in my previous post !! you have done an awesome job !! with this :cheers: :cheers:
like everything its the cost ! not trying to stir any thing or turn this thread in how much :scratchchin: this much :yesnod: no way rip off :o etc etc , thats too expensive :RantExplode: !! are chebby parts that much ?? nope ! look at how much some mopar parts are selling for on ebay its a joke , what is used up shit in reality , but you read their ads & its like WOW you don't find them like this any more wow just needs this & that , two hours max to fix !! :paintingpink: :hack: look at pictures of said part !! ?? & its shrapnel :o & it needs throwing in the rubbish bin , ( just look at what prices are being asked from rotted out mopars also its a joke :flame:))) !! price them fair & you will sell thousands , even to the general lee charger mob converting their 68 & 70s !!! :yesnod: think $495.00 US is more than enough people would want to pay for a centre section !(just sell them in a raw state no paint or anything ) , any more can only see you selling a 10th of what you could to the money no object restos being done for collectors !!! ((no offence meant to anyone)) even forgo making the corners at this time just do a 68 centre section (((also & maybe the 70 grill ! although no offece to the 70 charger mob they were, not sold in the numbers & market is quite limited !)), the corners are easier to repair & interchange both years ! think i'm going to get flamed now but there is too much profiteering from making & selling mopar parts , (((yes i know the cost of getting parts into the production stage & every business has to make a proffet to survive !! no offence ment :cheers:)))
compared to the brand X parts :Twocents:
*****this is tantops own personal views & are not of www.dodgecharger.com ****
:leaving:
As expensive as Mopars are I think that's what helps keep them at the top of muscle car reputation.... They're not a dime a dozen..
Seeing a Mopar is like WOW !!
Seeing twice as many Brand X is like ehhh...
Quote from: 440 on June 29, 2011, 06:00:05 AM
As expensive as Mopars are I think that's what helps keep them at the top of muscle car reputation.... They're not a dime a dozen..
Seeing a Mopar is like WOW !!
Seeing twice as many Brand X is like ehhh...
:yesnod: valid points , :yesnod: agreed !! :2thumbs:
why are they so expencive ?? :Twocents: only the aero & maxweges / superstocks , low production numbers etc etc should comand high prices :Twocents:
the hobby has gone crazy !! wonder how many would own a mopar if it was worthless & spend thousands of dollars building it , no offence ment to anyone :cheers: :cheers:
i would for one :yesnod: , love the charger its the most beautiful shaped car ever built ! its perfect :yesnod: :drool5: not its value & media hype over the years
think i'm wrecking the grill thread, sorry guys did not set out to , ! feel free to delete this , just got a bit carried away :slap:
Quote from: Nassau1969 on June 28, 2011, 07:37:11 PM
I think $5000 K is high for a complete 69 NOS grille maybe $3500 $4000 grand, for $5000 you better have everything the actuators head lights hoses the whole bingo deal including shipping and insurance. I have a complete NOS grille for a 69, I had allot of offers on it. I have the 3 sections with head light doors and all the trim in NOS, I bought it about over 10 yrs ago its in perfect condition. The guy I bought it from was not heavily into mopars he bought I believe it was a Challenger and didn't even look in the trunk until sometime later and it was sitting in there the whole grille with no trim waiting to be found. I bought the entire trim set about 12 yrs ago.
Right, my point was that NOS isn't selling at that price ($5,000). It may not even be selling at much less than that. However, if the other four pieces were priced in line with this one you're looking at about $4,000 for the reproduction ($6,000 at the first price mentioned) and it still needs paint, trim, a frame, and all the headlight components. The people who can afford NOS will always prefer to buy NOS (if available) but that's a very small portion of the people who own these cars. The rest are hobbyists. I think it might be possible to sell the complete set of plastic for $1,500-2,000 but there would be a whole lot more buyers at $700-1,000. You'd still have about double that in it by the time it's ready to install. I can imagine spending $300 per end and possibly $450 for a center if I desperately needed them but I've also been known to buy stuff at prices that everyone else passed on.
Troy
The grille looks good in the photos, I hope this project works out. :2thumbs:
There are several people on the forum who import & export regularly, maybe they can offer some information as to keep the overseas shipping fees down to make the part more enticing to someone who needs it. My guess is that a bulk order is the way to go, but a sample grille needs to be here so people can see it, touch it, test fit it, maybe even smell it. :lol:
Good luck. :cheers:
Where can I find more info on 8051 Polyolefin? Does it dissolve in the rain? Does it break when a bumble bee hits it? Does it vibrate in a 70 mph wind? Does it cause birth defects?
Quote from: Old Moparz on June 29, 2011, 09:24:01 AM
The grille looks good in the photos, I hope this project works out. :2thumbs:
There are several people on the forum who import & export regularly, maybe they can offer some information as to keep the overseas shipping fees down to make the part more enticing to someone who needs it. My guess is that a bulk order is the way to go, but a sample grille needs to be here so people can see it, touch it, test fit it, maybe even smell it. :lol:
Good luck. :cheers:
What will probably happen (if this part is as good as we hope it is) is that some large vendor will buy the exclusive rights to it, add $300 to the price and sell it through their website. So if bobfist wants $500 per grill, someone like year one will guarantee a run purchase of 100 of them for $300-$400 each and flip them for $800-$1,000 each. Who wouldn't take a guaranteed $30,000-$40,000 payday over nickle and diming it with a bunch of individual customers?
Quote from: bull on June 29, 2011, 01:35:40 PM
Where can I find more info on 8051 Polyolefin? Does it dissolve in the rain? Does it break when a bumble bee hits it? Does it vibrate in a 70 mph wind? Does it cause birth defects?
Quote from: Old Moparz on June 29, 2011, 09:24:01 AM
The grille looks good in the photos, I hope this project works out. :2thumbs:
There are several people on the forum who import & export regularly, maybe they can offer some information as to keep the overseas shipping fees down to make the part more enticing to someone who needs it. My guess is that a bulk order is the way to go, but a sample grille needs to be here so people can see it, touch it, test fit it, maybe even smell it. :lol:
Good luck. :cheers:
What will probably happen (if this part is as good as we hope it is) is that some large vendor will buy the exclusive rights to it, add $300 to the price and sell it through their website. So if bobfist wants $500 per grill, someone like year one will guarantee a run purchase of 100 of them for $300-$400 each and flip them for $800-$1,000 each. Who wouldn't take a guaranteed $30,000-$40,000 payday over nickle and diming it with a bunch of individual customers?
That's a probable result, but if he wants to make more per grille he will sell them himself.
Back in the mid 80's I was at the Mopars at Englishtown show (when it was a huge show) selling used parts. Some guy came in & parked his car across from my space & set up a folding card table. He took out a bunch of reproduction, chromed, plastic armrest bases. This was back when there were almost
NO repro parts being made for Mopars, so this guy did pretty well. I ended up talking to him all weekend, gave him some beer, & then he moved his table to my vending space & I was even able to buy a pair from him at his cost. It was great, it increased sales traffic & we both sold a lot of stuff.
On the last day of the weekend, Kramer came over & bought his entire inventory so he never had to take the boxes out of his car to set them up. At least I got the pair I needed. :lol:
0
I could call them but I don't speak Swedish. :shruggy: And I'm sure it might as well be Greek once they start discussing the thermodynamics and tensile strength properties of Polyolefin nanocomposites.
Anyway, where "overseas" will the parts be shipped?
It may be too short of notice, but it would be great if you were able to get one to the Carlisle show for display. If that isn't possible, there's the Mopar Nationals later in the summer. :Twocents:
IMHO charging any more than $500-700 (for all the plastic parts of the entire grille) would kill a lot of sales. Charging any more than $1000-1200 would kill virtually all of them. People in the hobby have been trained by 40 years of past experience that they should ALWAYS prefer a used original body part over a reproduction.
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on June 30, 2011, 06:28:57 AM
IMHO charging any more than $500-700 (for all the plastic parts of the entire grille) would kill a lot of sales. Charging any more than $1000-1200 would kill virtually all of them. People in the hobby have been trained by 40 years of past experience that they should ALWAYS prefer a used original body part over a reproduction.
:iagree: very true :yesnod:
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on June 30, 2011, 06:28:57 AM
IMHO charging any more than $500-700 (for all the plastic parts of the entire grille) would kill a lot of sales. Charging any more than $1000-1200 would kill virtually all of them. People in the hobby have been trained by 40 years of past experience that they should ALWAYS prefer a used original body part over a reproduction.
I kinda have to disagree. Usually that is the case but, sometimes (and I stress SOMETIMES) there are superior reproduction parts compared to originals. Excellent example would be the instrument voltage limiter that is now solid state vs. the original points mechanical style.
$500 - $700 for a set of unfinished main plastic parts is quite reasonable I think.... I'd buy a set for that ...
Quote from: resq302 on June 30, 2011, 08:27:18 AM
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on June 30, 2011, 06:28:57 AM
IMHO charging any more than $500-700 (for all the plastic parts of the entire grille) would kill a lot of sales. Charging any more than $1000-1200 would kill virtually all of them. People in the hobby have been trained by 40 years of past experience that they should ALWAYS prefer a used original body part over a reproduction.
I kinda have to disagree. Usually that is the case but, sometimes (and I stress SOMETIMES) there are superior reproduction parts compared to originals. Excellent example would be the instrument voltage limiter that is now solid state vs. the original points mechanical style.
yes , thats true :yesnod: :2thumbs:
Quote from: 440 on June 30, 2011, 08:32:38 AM
$500 - $700 for a set of unfinished main plastic parts is quite reasonable I think.... I'd buy a set for that ...
yeah maybe that much for all three pieces :scratchchin: , but how i'm reading , his looking at well over $700 JUST for the center section
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on June 30, 2011, 06:28:57 AM
IMHO charging any more than $500-700 (for all the plastic parts of the entire grille) would kill a lot of sales. Charging any more than $1000-1200 would kill virtually all of them. People in the hobby have been trained by 40 years of past experience that they should ALWAYS prefer a used original body part over a reproduction.
I was sort of quoting Mike stating that I think he's generally pretty spot on. Personally I'd buy a set if priced around $500 - $700, possibly even $800 if my grill was bad enough, but any more and I'd fix my own. I know it's hard for Bob to be competitive and profitable with a small operation and private money but $700 is a bit steep for me for the center only, but I'm sure there are a few who will probably buy them at that price
Bull, i talked to the factory today and they produce the plastic parts installed on the new volvos so i guess thats the answer you ask for.
They dont use poor quality plastics and its the same we use
Have they done or are you planning to do any hot/cold cycle tests on the part or is it being released as is? (not asking as a smartass or naysayer or even an engineer, I'm just asking)
Correction - with my earlier comments, I didn't mean to imply that reproduction parts are NEVER better than the originals.
I just mean to say that people in the old car hobby have been trained to assume that the original part will be superior most of the time. A new part might be better than the original but it has to overcome the stigma of being a new part.
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on June 30, 2011, 08:34:25 PM
I just mean to say that people in the old car hobby have been trained to assume that the original part will be superior most of the time. A new part might be better than the original but it has to overcome the stigma of being a new part.
Or broke ass people[Myself included] who just happen to like their '69 Charger's to have a pristine grille....I think IMO, THIS is the sole reason for not many selling at $700.00/center...But, he just might be geared towards the "Well off" to sell to and the rest will inevidably be driving round with cracked plastic just like some are doing right now with original/repaired fenders when $600.00/New fenders are out there.
And that's the reason many needed parts are reproduced - it just isn't financially feasible. There's no point in making anything that you can't sell for at least what you put into it. There's no way I'd put $800-1,000 per piece into something that the market will only price at $450-600. I had thoughts of making accurate Daytona/Superbird wings at one point and, even with the (generally) well-off owners of those cars, it still didn't look to be profitable. I know of many others who have run into the same predicament. Several other companies have been contemplating 68-69 Charger grilles for years and you see where we're at now. This is where companies like BE&A have the advantage - they can run off small lots of something just to gauge the market. Unfortunately, if the parts don't sell they're never made again.
Troy
1
Quote from: bobfist on July 01, 2011, 09:12:51 AM
Today we gave tur factory the grille corners and they Will produce them to.
As it looks right now companies Will Buy all.
So are you saying my prediction is correct? Year One (or similar) will be buying you out?
Quote from: bobfist on July 01, 2011, 09:12:51 AM
Today we gave tur factory the grille corners and they Will produce them to.
As it looks right now companies Will Buy all.
Good for you. That's the route I would have taken. I hope your risk is rewarded. :2thumbs:
I guess making the sides, before the 68 center, makes sense. You/they can bundle price on a complete grille.
IMO $700 is is not out of line when compared to other restoration costs and the value, or perceived value, of the car. I believe the difference in sales between $450 and $700 would be marginal. You either need one or you don't.
You cannot be the "innovator" and the "low-cost-provider" at the same time (without a giant leap in technology) and still make money.
Pricing so everyone can afford it? C'mon, that went down the tubes with the USSR. One "broke-ass" guy will rebuild his broken grille. The other broke-ass guy will rebuild his neighbour's deck on a saturday afternoon and then call Bobfist (or his distributer).
:Twocents:
:Twocents:
The demand for most of the parts on the entire car will be gradually coming.
The aftermarket can wait a few more years to see the whites of the customers' eyes if they want. But the writing is on the wall with Mustangs & Camaros & Chevelles, etc. If the existing supply of old Chargers being restored does not justify repopping a part right now, then the eventual Dynacorn Charger unibodies will later on.
(http://i56.tinypic.com/5wef49.jpg)
great looking part - If Year One buys you out then they again hold the monopoly on the market just like they do for Dash Hanresses haha
i have never said that a company that big will have them :)
Those look AWESOME!!!!! If you want, you can send me one for free and I can show everyone here how well it looks on the car. It'd be like free advertising!! :rofl:
please say BE/A...... :popcrn:
Quote from: NMike on July 09, 2011, 12:05:52 PM
please say BE/A...... :popcrn:
Why? Nothing against BE&A but it typically makes its own stuff and is not really known for selling things on the low end of the pricing scale. I can see how this might benefit BE&A but I guess I don't understand how selling it to a middle man would benefit people like you and I.
If I had to give extra money to one of those two middlemen then I would prefer it be BE&A rather than Year One.
(http://i53.tinypic.com/dxl2jo.jpg)
O.K,so how are you going to sell those now ?????Price,shipping,etc.Unless I missed something,NTM your biggest market would United States seeing that is where most of the cars are. :shruggy:
I gotta hand it to 'ya Bobfist, you went where most have tried and came back with what looks to be na ccurate reproduction piece. Good luck on your venture andIf no private hands offer up the $$$, sell 'em to BE/A and at least your moving your parts...Afterall, that's the name of the game your in right? Moving the parts to recoup the investment. Again, well done mate.
How about a dodgecharger.com members discount?? :scratchchin:
O.k,again,and I don't even need one.You set out to do what was not done yet,very big hurdle in most opinions,(Charger owners),then you actually do it,looks great btw,you are in Sweden,but now should'nt you be getting these out there after going thru all that to do it?????? I mean,if I was the one to have done what you have ,I most certainly want these to start making there way to people.You say it will be hard to ship overseas,if I understood correctly,did you not think about that before the endeavor????How many resales do you/would you expect to keep those only in Europe????? And now you say you are going to make the headlight bezels,just sayin,you're investing alot to "not" sell them overseas????Again,maybe I misinterpritted different,just think you would be anxious to start selling these.
0
Guys i did it!
I ordered a Center Section from Toni and it came today. All i can say it is a great Piece and the Money was worth it. I needed one for my Car and really tried to get one and was looking everywhere, but all i could find was one at Ebay for 2500 Bucks or used ones wich where also a lot of Money or cracked or people wouldn´t ship it overseas, but that´s another Story. Then i saw this post and since i´m in Germany i thought, you know what i´m gonna order one.
I´m really satisfied. The Quality of that Piece is really good, for me it has the Standard of an Mercedes or AUDI or what ever High Class Grille. You really can tell that the Factory knows what they´re doing. The Piece is Stiff, but still flexable enough to not break if something hits it. If that Grille breaks, well then i think you would have probably a much bigger problem with the car.
Well if someone needs a Grille that is not to expensiv, compared to the ones you can buy right now, and not over 40years old. All i can say is, call Toni.
It was a nice Conversation on the Phone and he didn´t promised to much.
If the Corners, that he is talking about, are gonna turnout the same way, i´ll go for it too!!! For sure!!
Remo
All the best to your Dad!!
Quote from: Remo on August 04, 2011, 05:07:16 PM
Guys i did it!
I ordered a Center Section from Toni and it came today. All i can say it is a great Piece and the Money was worth it. I needed one for my Car and really tried to get one and was looking everywhere, but all i could find was one at Ebay for 2500 Bucks or used ones wich where also a lot of Money or cracked or people wouldn´t ship it overseas, but that´s another Story. Then i saw this post and since i´m in Germany i thought, you know what i´m gonna order one.
I´m really satisfied. The Quality of that Piece is really good, for me it has the Standard of an Mercedes or AUDI or what ever High Class Grille. You really can tell that the Factory knows what they´re doing. The Piece is Stiff, but still flexable enough to not break if something hits it. If that Grille breaks, well then i think you would have probably a much bigger problem with the car.
Well if someone needs a Grille that is not to expensiv, compared to the ones you can buy right now, and not over 40years old. All i can say is, call Toni.
It was a nice Conversation on the Phone and he didn´t promised to much.
If the Corners, that he is talking about, are gonna turnout the same way, i´ll go for it too!!! For sure!!
Remo
All the best to your Dad!!
HUM! I sure wish I could believe this was a legit posting, but who knows. Wish it was someone we all new!! Well when the corners come out I will bite the bullet and buy a whole grille!!!
@69Charger440
I know it is my first Post here and i understand exactly what you might think, but i just can tell you that this is a legit post. I bought my Charger in feburary this year and was reading on this Board for a while until i had to get registered. Why? Because if your not, you can´t look up on the Parts for Sale Board and i still need Parts. I was a Ford Guy before i bought my car and i learned a lot about these cars just thru reading on this Board.
I wrote this Post, because i thought i should tell you about a great Product. And like i wrote before, i was looking for a while, but nobody reproduce them Grilles and i was just happy to findout that somebody did that here in Europe.
I´m sorry that my Post looks like i advertise that Grill.
It should just be an Information, i got nothing to do with Toni´s buisness and it is still your decison if you want to purchase it or not.
Remo
Are we ever going to be told about the process of building these things? What they are made out of, etc.? I don't mind a little trade secrecy but once they being made and sold I think it's safe to tell customers exactly what it is they might be buying.
Can't believe I missed this post...best thing I've read at 3 AM EVER! When do you anticipate the corners to be complete? I finally have an option that I could paint argent silver and quit ticking off 95% of the people on this site, although they do come re-popped in black, how convenient for me :P
Keep us posted, if there is a group buy count me in...
I'm located here in Amarillo and deal with freight alot at work, although never anything international. If I wind up with a set I will get it installed on the 69 and feature it on Lone Star Mopars Online Magazine. I am forwarding this post to a few friends as we speak!
Thanks again for taking this on and more importantly making it happen...makes me proud to see the much neeeded piece hit the market. I would think most people would jump for $800ish for the whole set, altough I am not sure that is possible for you.
Man, now I have to figure out how to sleep between now and 8 AM...a problem I am fine with having!
TexasStroker,it's not $800 for the whole set,it's $800 for just the center piece + shipping to the US,phewwwww!!!!! And you don't know the cost yet on the bezels.Not looking for any of this at Carlisle this year,but I was fortunate this year to find and score both NOS bezels with mint used headlight doors on them,and a mint center section.......for less than he is selling just his center piece.I came home a happy guy.
1
Quote from: bobfist on August 05, 2011, 12:58:07 PM
Hi!
Its sad that you guys dont really trust us.
Im glad that some of you find parts that isnt broken, but still, it 40 year old fragile plastic
I dont know anything else that to tell you to go to our guy selling the grilles for us over in CA to see it in IRL.
About shipping to the US, it isnt that bad... 50 dollars is the price for that.
Don't say"you guys"as meaning all on this site,there are alot,including myself that commended and thanked you for your commitment and effort,as noone else stepped up to the plate to do so.But until you have some over here in the US,and have been installed in cars,that is what to expect from most people.What I had said was,first you did comment on keeping them in Europe,which would be not so smart as your biggest market would/will be the US.Second,send one as a sample to whomever you choose that can and will give an unbiased opinion on your product quality/fit and could be a neutral to give assurement to the rest of possible buyers.Food for thought.
As a matter of fact donate two,so one can be put to a torture test of flexing/bending/twisting around to its breaking point !!!! :D
Quote from: 69 OUR/TEA on August 05, 2011, 12:51:30 PM
TexasStroker,it's not $800 for the whole set,it's $800 for just the center piece + shipping to the US,phewwwww!!!!! And you don't know the cost yet on the bezels.Not looking for any of this at Carlisle this year,but I was fortunate this year to find and score both NOS bezels with mint used headlight doors on them,and a mint center section.......for less than he is selling just his center piece.I came home a happy guy.
Yeah, I actually meant $800 for the center and corners...that's why I added I didn't know if it would even be possible for him to do it (cost/profit wise).
Don't dwell on the negative comments Bob, this is something much needed and appreciated. Guys are only leary because people have repopped it in the past with inferior plastics and some sell without shipping. You have taken the time to get it right and are using a much better process. Get a few of your grilles out on the market and installed and you will begin to see the uncertainty turn into positive feedback. The price may be the biggest issue, but you can't give this stuff away and you have to turn a profit. I for one am looking forward to the finished product and will probably pick up the center and corners to install at the same time...keep the stock piece tucked away safely etc.
Thank you Bob for taking the time to produce this much needed part. :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
Quote from: bobfist on August 05, 2011, 12:58:07 PM
Hi!
Its sad that you guys dont really trust us.
Im glad that some of you find parts that isnt broken, but still, it 40 year old fragile plastic
I dont know anything else that to tell you to go to our guy selling the grilles for us over in CA to see it in IRL.
About shipping to the US, it isnt that bad... 50 dollars is the price for that.
Well, I'm glad that you were able to reproduce a much needed part; however, having said that, I don't think you are instilling much confidence in some of the members since you seem to be avoiding certain questions. Some members have asked if you have put the grille through hot/cold stress tests, whether it was injected molding, and other such questions. The only responses you have given is "trust me, we know what we are doing, or have completely ignored the question, etc." I don't believe anyone has asked for specific details on how you made the part, but if I were selling the part, I would disclose as much information as possible to inform the consumer what type of product they would be buying. Of course, the consumer has to acknowledge that you can only disclose certain info without jeopardizing the exact process in which you managed to produce the product. But, you could at least state whether or not you put the grille through certain tests. Please understand that I am not trying to be a jerk, but you have to put yourself in the consumer's shoes. If you were in need of a certain part and had to shell out $800+ for it, would you be satisfied with the seller telling you to trust him? I hope that you don't misinterpret this post as attacking you, but I think it's only fair for people to ask questions concerning the product they are considering in buying.
Quote from: 69Charger_440 on August 06, 2011, 09:49:59 AM
Quote from: bobfist on August 05, 2011, 12:58:07 PM
Hi!
Its sad that you guys dont really trust us.
Im glad that some of you find parts that isnt broken, but still, it 40 year old fragile plastic
I dont know anything else that to tell you to go to our guy selling the grilles for us over in CA to see it in IRL.
About shipping to the US, it isnt that bad... 50 dollars is the price for that.
Well, I'm glad that you were able to reproduce a much needed part; however, having said that, I don't think you are instilling much confidence in some of the members since you seem to be avoiding certain questions. Some members have asked if you have put the grille through hot/cold stress tests, whether it was injected molding, and other such questions. The only responses you have given is "trust me, we know what we are doing, or have completely ignored the question, etc." I don't believe anyone has asked for specific details on how you made the part, but if I were selling the part, I would disclose as much information as possible to inform the consumer what type of product they would be buying. Of course, the consumer has to acknowledge that you can only disclose certain info without jeopardizing the exact process in which you managed to produce the product. But, you could at least state whether or not you put the grille through certain tests. Please understand that I am not trying to be a jerk, but you have to put yourself in the consumer's shoes. If you were in need of a certain part and had to shell out $800+ for it, would you be satisfied with the seller telling you to trust him? I hope that you don't misinterpret this post as attacking you, but I think it's only fair for people to ask questions concerning the product they are considering in buying.
While I agree - ask any other vendor the same questions and see what you get. Nobody (ok, almost nobody) structurally tests their parts. I'm not sure too many of them actually test to see if they fit! It would be nice but, even the ones who make some effort rarely release the results of any testing. If I remember right, BE&A had to test all their turn signal/marker/brake/tail light lenses to qualify for DOT certification but that's about the only thing I know of.
Troy
Quote from: Troy on August 06, 2011, 09:55:16 AM
Quote from: 69Charger_440 on August 06, 2011, 09:49:59 AM
Quote from: bobfist on August 05, 2011, 12:58:07 PM
Hi!
Its sad that you guys dont really trust us.
Im glad that some of you find parts that isnt broken, but still, it 40 year old fragile plastic
I dont know anything else that to tell you to go to our guy selling the grilles for us over in CA to see it in IRL.
About shipping to the US, it isnt that bad... 50 dollars is the price for that.
Well, I'm glad that you were able to reproduce a much needed part; however, having said that, I don't think you are instilling much confidence in some of the members since you seem to be avoiding certain questions. Some members have asked if you have put the grille through hot/cold stress tests, whether it was injected molding, and other such questions. The only responses you have given is "trust me, we know what we are doing, or have completely ignored the question, etc." I don't believe anyone has asked for specific details on how you made the part, but if I were selling the part, I would disclose as much information as possible to inform the consumer what type of product they would be buying. Of course, the consumer has to acknowledge that you can only disclose certain info without jeopardizing the exact process in which you managed to produce the product. But, you could at least state whether or not you put the grille through certain tests. Please understand that I am not trying to be a jerk, but you have to put yourself in the consumer's shoes. If you were in need of a certain part and had to shell out $800+ for it, would you be satisfied with the seller telling you to trust him? I hope that you don't misinterpret this post as attacking you, but I think it's only fair for people to ask questions concerning the product they are considering in buying.
While I agree - ask any other vendor the same questions and see what you get. Nobody (ok, almost nobody) structurally tests their parts. I'm not sure too many of them actually test to see if they fit! It would be nice but, even the ones who make some effort rarely release the results of any testing. If I remember right, BE&A had to test all their turn signal/marker/brake/tail light lenses to qualify for DOT certification but that's about the only thing I know of.
Troy
Right, I see what you are saying :2thumbs:; however, I was looking at it as a means of maybe soothing some members concerns over the quality of the grille since Bobsfist is a member here. Kind of like a member to member courtesy. Anyhow, I am glad that he is reproducing this piece, and I hope that the grilles turn out to be a great product.
Quote from: bobfist on August 05, 2011, 12:58:07 PM
Hi!
Its sad that you guys dont really trust us.
Im glad that some of you find parts that isnt broken, but still, it 40 year old fragile plastic
I dont know anything else that to tell you to go to our guy selling the grilles for us over in CA to see it in IRL.
About shipping to the US, it isnt that bad... 50 dollars is the price for that.
WHEN ARE THE CORNERS GOING TO BE DONE????? I AM INTERESTED BUT ONLY IN THE COMPLETE GRILL!!!!!
Will have the reproduction price tomorrow 9/8
Bob, you have and are doing a great job! Ignore the snide remarks, your new repo'd grille will be well received and whatever price point you put on it will reflect everything that's gone into this project. Some will find the pricing too high, other will be happy to lay hands on a new grille. You can't please everyone. Stay the course. :Twocents:
Well its tomorrow and no CORNERS yet. Getting anxious!!! :yesnod: :2thumbs:
Quote from: bobfist on August 08, 2011, 11:05:53 AM
Will have the reproduction price tomorrow 9/8
:scratchchin:
:scratchchin:
What do you mean :popcrn:,...? They're right here .......
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-Dodge-Charger-69-center-grille-reproduction-/180720859998?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A1969%7CModel%3ACharger&hash=item2a13cd7b5e
Wow nearly $1100 shipped!
I doubt he is going to sell many at that price...
Talk about taking the 80 grit up the wahzooo!
Why would'nt they sell? If you have a cracked one and no replacement parts then you have to go deep in the wallet? Thats how it goes when restoring old cars.
Have you seen the prices they charge for every single part that has HEMI on the box? And these things also sell.....
Hah! The shipping costs the same to Norway and the US :icon_smile_tongue:
Quote from: doctor4766 on September 07, 2011, 02:58:17 AM
Wow nearly $1100 shipped!
What a bargain. ::) Is that a 600% profit margin or what?
Quote from: six-tee-nine on September 08, 2011, 06:03:57 AM
Why would'nt they sell? If you have a cracked one and no replacement parts then you have to go deep in the wallet? Thats how it goes when restoring old cars.
Have you seen the prices they charge for every single part that has HEMI on the box? And these things also sell.....
So because people have no choice they're supposed to gather 'round and sing his praises while writing out the four-digit check? Or should they maybe feel taken advantage of? Were this the last loaf of bread in a flood-ravaged town, and the market's owner had put a $700 price tag on it, I don't know that most people would view the guy as a messiah. I feel bad for getting sticker shock over BE&A's $1,000 COMPLETE '68 tail light assemblies now.
Quote from: bobfist on August 05, 2011, 12:58:07 PM
Its sad that you guys dont really trust us.
About shipping to the US, it isnt that bad... 50 dollars is the price for that.
:lol:
Harsh guys. Bob took on a project of interest to many and made it happen. I submit no easy endeavor that and the capitol outlay wasn't pocket change either. The fact is, unless an OEM grille center section can be found in mint condition, folks will buy this new offering. Yeah, the current price point is steep but we all know (erape) buyers will pay ridiculous amounts of Samolians for crappy parts. If he can't move these to recoup his initial investment he will have to adjust pricing to survive. :Twocents:
Lemme see....$1100.00 for a grille center brand new when VERY good originals are "unobtanium", folks complain price too high....
Passon 5- speed $4600.00 bolt in brand new when there's original 4-speed overdrive....And people were lining up to buy...
No wonder it's hard to "Gauge" the market.
Quote from: six-tee-nine on September 08, 2011, 06:03:57 AM
Why wouldn't they sell? If you have a cracked one and no replacement parts then you have to go deep in the wallet? That's how it goes when restoring old cars.
Before I pay US $994.90 for a grill center that I never had in my hands before thus don't know what kind of quality it is, I will repair the one with the crack in it that I bought at Mopars at the Strip last year for $150. :Twocents:
Quote from: six-tee-nine on September 08, 2011, 06:03:57 AM
Why would'nt they sell? If you have a cracked one and no replacement parts then you have to go deep in the wallet? Thats how it goes when restoring old cars.
Have you seen the prices they charge for every single part that has HEMI on the box? And these things also sell.....
:iagree: :iagree: :horse: Best of luck w/ your sales :cheers:
I'm still kind of wanting to see the corners just like a few others...The price does seem a little high, but if they check out quality wise I think quite a few will take advantage of the parts being on the marketplace. I'm not going to complain too much, this is something I've wanted to see and wanted to pick up for a long time. Let us know when you have the corners cranked out Bob!
(http://i53.tinypic.com/r1nek1.jpg)
Quote from: twodko on September 08, 2011, 11:38:31 AM
Harsh guys. Bob took on a project of interest to many and made it happen. I submit no easy endeavor that and the capitol outlay wasn't pocket change either. The fact is, unless an OEM grille center section can be found in mint condition, folks will buy this new offering. Yeah, the current price point is steep but we all know (erape) buyers will pay ridiculous amounts of Samolians for crappy parts. If he can't move these to recoup his initial investment he will have to adjust pricing to survive. :Twocents:
I agree, it is yet another part for are cars,(the part that makes the 69s the sexiest ). Who knows, maybe Bob will start 68s or 70 grills, or other parts, & if we can get a quality part instead of junk from China, then I do not mind paying for it. As stated above, (the capitol outlay was not pocket change either), I don't mind anybody making a profit, as long as the quality is there. Because if you don't want to make a profit on parts, to fund are hobby, then none of us should sell anything. :Twocents:.
We on another club site, were looking into reproducing an exhaust manifold...Wanna guess how much Outlay it is to even Get to where you can run off ONE manifold at a foundry?
Try $10,000.00.......
Please remind me not to reproduce a part to help the hobby.
Quote from: maxwellwedge on September 16, 2011, 06:48:52 PM
Please remind me not to reproduce a part to help the hobby.
Ha.
I think that's kinda high a price. I understand you need to recoup and make a profit. Hey, I never asked anyone to reproduce it so I'm quilt free. Though I do appreciate anyone taking the time and money to reproduce a part for these cars. Best of luck. :2thumbs:
Just curious when the corners will be ready? Wont buy a grill until they are complete! :2thumbs:
Quote from: 69charger440 on September 17, 2011, 12:36:31 AM
Just curious when the corners will be ready? Wont buy a grill until they are complete! :2thumbs:
At the moment we don't see it possible financial to reproduce the corners.
We have a few grilles left and i have to save one for myself :)
But we have some other pats coming
Man, sorry to hear that Bob...I still might pop for just the center, but I was hoping the whole set-up would be available. It'll be a winter project if it happens and if the grille is nice I'll do my best to spread the word and see if we can't help you get to a point that financing for the corner tooling is available...
Keep us posted on your other parts as well!
:Twocents: If I were restoring a 69 and needed a grille I'd be happy to pay whatever the cost. Just the fact that the part is available is a bonus.
We just have to bite down hard and except the fact that restoring these babies doesn't come cheap. :Twocents:
+2
Ebay feedback on the grilles
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=christianschroder&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller
That repro '70 is sounding sweet! I'll take one!
I am looking for a center section for a 69 Charger with the chrome " I " section. What is the today's price ?
Classic industries does a complete grill. Maybe you can find someone selling the parts seperately. Can't recall anyone selling the center with the "I" piece. good luck. let Us know what you find.