Has anyone ever made an authentic hemi bobby issac clone ? If so any pix . My hemi daytona will be done this winter and the more I view those pix of the # 71 , the more I want to build one . After building my stock daytona , a race car looks much easier , no headlight doors and no interior . Larry
Does that mean that you want to build a second Daytona? Or are you just wanting to make the one your completing into a #71 clone?
My 2 favorite paint schemes on the old race Daytona's were the #22 and the #71. If I ever built a clone of a Daytona though I've been thinking that I'd make it a #9 and paint it like the newer nascar cars in a Kasey Kahne scheme. Just my thoughts.
No, looking for a 70 charger right now to build a #71 clone when I finish this one up . After viewing many photos It looks like it would be a fun project , not having to adhere to a nut and bolt restoration .
Looking for a 70 to build a 71 clone :o. :icon_smile_big:
I read the thread and still had to read that sentence twice for it to hit home. I get it now.
kasey kahne can lick my balls !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I FUCKING HATE NASCAR , WHERES THE TRAILER PARK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Whoa, don't hold back, how do you really feel?
I'll guess that with a username of Daytonalo and posting in the wing car forum you don't feel that strongly about all NASCAR?
Nascar died years ago! Now it is a joke.
I tottally agree ! Love to see one of current day drivers go 200 like buddy baker did in a old car !
I was just busting your chops a little. :icon_smile_wink: I feel the same way.
Nascar to me is still interesting to watch. However they do whine a lot. And I wish they would run the races at Daytona and Talladega without restrictor plates. Its racing, its not supposed to be slowed down. If you aren't willing to drive 245mph on Talladega don't race there. That is my opinion.
Side note though I happen to like Kahne.
I haven't watched one single stock car race since they outlawed the wing cars. Switched to drag racing and never regretted it.
watch the local short track races, they're better. less whiny people there.
My point is that NASCAR crap is a religion for some people , get out of the double wide and get a life !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Last week on E-BAY I saw a Dale earnharts underwear on there , you know the one's with the skid mark's in them !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I agree some people take it too far. Then again some people think that we take the Mopar hobby too far too. To me its normal to be obsessed with these old aero cars. Its how I grew up.
Now I also grew up watching NASCAR and the King driving. He has long since retired, and so now I root for Kahne. Then again I'm not a huge Kahne fan though, just a fan of racing in general and of his. Wouldn't go as far as to want to purchase his used underwear though, that is a step too far.
it was a joke !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I figured as much, was just carrying on the conversation.
There are those people out there though that are that die hard on nascar and such. I mean there was someone who was willing to pay $1Million for Adolf Hitler's desk at an auction.
Quote from: daytonalo on September 03, 2006, 02:15:29 AM
Has anyone ever made an authentic hemi bobby issac clone ? If so any pix . My hemi daytona will be done this winter and the more I view those pix of the # 71 , the more I want to build one . After building my stock daytona , a race car looks much easier , no headlight doors and no interior . Larry
There is a very nice street replica of the #71 Daytona out there already. One that has not been done is the #6 Baker Cotton Owens Daytona. That would be a good choice.
Any pictures of the Cotton Owens car out there?
Does anyone have a picture of the 71 clone out there !
Quote from: Howie on September 18, 2006, 09:41:25 AM
Any pictures of the Cotton Owens car out there?
(http://media.popularmechanics.com/images/9808AUMSBA-01.jpg)
Quote from: daytonalo on September 18, 2006, 10:13:22 AM
Does anyone have a picture of the 71 clone out there !
Here you go...
(http://wwnboa.com/jpgs/03linmr68.jpg)
http://www.cottonowens.com/photos.html
Thanks guys , owesome car . After I paint my car this winter I will start on my #71 clone ! I plan on making spot on to origanal , modified front fenders , front subframe and will run goodyear racing slicks on the street !
will it have a gutted interior w/ full roll cage, and also will it has the bathtub intake atop the mighty hemi?
All the above , I have always wanted an authentic # 71 car , not just a pretty much stock daytona with decals .
so ur going with the rare ass bathtub intake and the elusive 1750??? cfm 4 barrel-MATT
If I can locate those item , I will buy them . I was unaware of the cfm of the carb , thank you .
Larry
Howie just sold one his bathtub intakes. He might have one more. They make lousy setups for the street though. I say leave those setups for the museum cars and go with something a little more streetable for your driver. As long as you make the air cleaner look right, no one will notice the intake setup being different.
How much did he sell it for ?
I sold it for 900. That was with a top for a standard Holley and a top for a Dominator carb. I found a 1964 Nascar dual plane intake that I will be runniung on mine.
$900 , ive seen those things go for the better side of 6k-MATT
Unless someone else posts it, I have a picture of an original #71 Grand National Daytona that Tim Wellborn owns.......... Not sure if the picture Doug posted is of Tim's.......
Troy
I wanted to do my daytona as close to the nascar look as possible so I drove 12 hours to the museum at talladega to take pictures of the 71 car. I was able to talk one of the workers to open the hood for me to get the engine bay shots. I took about 80 pictures. The air inlet has been opened up quite a bit under the nose of the car.
Quote from: Howie on September 19, 2006, 11:39:33 AM
I wanted to do my daytona as close to the nascar look as possible so I drove 12 hours to the museum at talladega to take pictures of the 71 car. I was able to talk one of the workers to open the hood for me to get the engine bay shots. I took about 80 pictures. The air inlet has been opened up quite a bit under the nose of the car.
Hey Howie, is there any way you could post those 80 photos up somewhere? I love that car!!! :drool5:
yeah howie email me as many shots as possible to me , my email is G-UNOT89@hotmail.com,thnx bud, also if u are building to as close as possible, are u gonan do floor bracing etc.? and lastly what car are u gonan re-create??-MATT
That`s a lot of email.I was going to do a 71 car but have changed my mind. I don`t know which one to do. I may even paint it a color no one has. I finally recieved all of my guages. The old stewart warners. That itself is a chore to find the old stuff. Got a pair of nascar valvecovers from a friend who had them hangin on a wall in his shop. Tires are current nascar slicks. Boy they are wide.
a nicely done charlie glotzbach #99 car would be sweet, as well as the testing #88 car-MATT
Quote from: B5 BLUE CHARGER PUNK on September 21, 2006, 11:58:21 AM
a nicely done charlie glotzbach #99 car would be sweet, as well as the testing #88 car-MATT
Those cars are already out there. Wayne Perkins Hemi Daytona is nicely done up as a #99. There is a #88 street car out there which is somewhat rough around the edges.
A few cars that could be done that would be neat to see:
Don White #3 USAC
Butch Hartman #75 USAC
Buddy Baker #6 NASCAR
Dave Marcis #30 NASCAR
James Hylton #48 NASCAR
Tires have come up a couple of times in this thread along with the use of slicks to create a more faithful replica. NASCAR tires in the wing car era were still fully treaded.
The tires on the 71 car I saw were slicks, however I have seen some pictures of the wing cars with treaded tires. Any idea what the size they were? I saw that the petty car has a treaded tire.
I bought a 1/64th die cast of Tiny Lund's #55 car last week at a swapmeet. I mentioned to Howard that we could paint his up to match it. I kind of like blue on these cars.
Doug, do you know anything about Tiny? From what I've read about him, he seemed like a nice guy
Quote from: hotrod98 on September 21, 2006, 02:42:44 PM
I bought a 1/64th die cast of Tiny Lund's #55 car last week at a swapmeet. I mentioned to Howard that we could paint his up to match it. I kind of like blue on these cars.
Doug, do you know anything about Tiny? From what I've read about him, he seemed like a nice guy
Some cool details about Tiny here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiny_Lund)
And a pic swiped from the Aerowarriors.com site:
Quote from: Howie on September 21, 2006, 02:02:48 PM
The tires on the 71 car I saw were slicks, however I have seen some pictures of the wing cars with treaded tires. Any idea what the size they were? I saw that the petty car has a treaded tire.
Max rim size for 1969-70 was 15 x 9 and was expanded to 9.5 in 1970. The wheels have double welded centers for strength. The size was 8/8.25 x 15. Max sidewall width was 12.2" The "tread" was kind of a hen scratch pattern. Period Goodyears have a small letter pattern. Anything with a large white "GOODYEAR" is circa 1972 and later. You can still get tires in that size.
The K & K has seen actual track use in recent years, so it runs a modern set of race tires. NOS sixties race tires are hard to find and require tubes. Probably a good substiture is something like a Hoosier Street TD blackwall and copy the Goodyear markings onto them.
Quote from: hemigeno on September 21, 2006, 03:53:19 PM
Quote from: hotrod98 on September 21, 2006, 02:42:44 PM
I bought a 1/64th die cast of Tiny Lund's #55 car last week at a swapmeet. I mentioned to Howard that we could paint his up to match it. I kind of like blue on these cars.
Doug, do you know anything about Tiny? From what I've read about him, he seemed like a nice guy
Some cool details about Tiny here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiny_Lund)
And a pic swiped from the Aerowarriors.com site:
Tiny's car would also be a good choice. Tiny's claim to fame was when he lifted a burning Maserati off Marvin Panch at the Daytona sports car race in 1963. Marvin was scheduled to drive the Wood Brothers #21, but due to his burns he could not, so they put Marvin in the car, and he won the race.
Tiny ran a Merc Cyclone for Bud Moore in 1968, and the Daytona in 1970. He also raced quite a bit in the NASCAR Grand Amercan pony car series in 69-72 in a Camaro with some success. Tiny was killed at Talladega in 1975 in a crash on the backstretch. He was driving a 74 Charger at the time.
yea, but the hylton car is being restored as we speak and the buddy baker #6 car exists as well and is in great condition,the perkins 99 clone is a street car with full interior and stock engine ,and the 88 clone is not even a full clone as it packs a 318 and has no rear plug and it also has full interior-MATT
Tiny reminds me of a local late model driver (Don Milliken) that I crewed for back in the early 70's before I decided to go drag racing. I wonder what number he was using when he was killed. I was surprised to read that he was killed in a '74 Charger.
I have a rust free 74 Charger hardtop that we were thinking about using to make a Petty stock car clone. No one seems to want to buy it to restore so why not? Howard might just have to use it to make a Tiny Lund memorial car to go with his daytona stock car clone.
on www.tinylund.com (http://www.tinylund.com) there seems 2 be no footage or pics or records of him ever driving a 74 charger-MATT
Quote from: THE CHARGER PUNK on September 21, 2006, 06:16:40 PM
on www.tinylund.com (http://www.tinylund.com) there seems 2 be no footage or pics or records of him ever driving a 74 charger-MATT
Look here. (http://racing-reference.info/race?id=1975-19&series=W)
Tiny was credited with a 46th place finish in that race, in a '74 Dodge (Charger).
Hey Doug , thank you , I'm not sure I understand your breakdown on tire size .
This is great. Everyone has a bit of knowledge and that is helpin me a lot. I love this site. Thanks for the information just keep it coming.
Howard
Quote from: THE CHARGER PUNK on September 21, 2006, 04:52:31 PM
yea, but the hylton car is being restored as we speak and the buddy baker #6 car exists as well and is in great condition,the perkins 99 clone is a street car with full interior and stock engine ,and the 88 clone is not even a full clone as it packs a 318 and has no rear plug and it also has full interior-MATT
The Hylton car is a long, long way from being done. We're talking years. I spoke to the owner last Saturday. He's thrilled to have the car, but he is going to need a lot of help to get it done. It will probably be done as a #22 Daytona, since his dad was the team owner. The #6 Owens car - who knows when we will see it again.
Anyway, when I am saying "these would be good cars to do", I'm not talking about replicating real race cars. I'm talking about street based replicas. The idea is that you can get a few of them together at an event, in one place and run them down the road or a parade lap at a track. My opinion is that is doesn't make sense to duplicate a car that's already out there. I've heard, "Well that car has an interior, or that car doesn't have a plug." Personally, all I care is to see is the exterior paint treatment. If you want to gut the interior and put a cage in it, sure that'll help, but to make it really "correct", see below.
Don't take any of this the wrong way. I'm trying to inform you, not put your idea down. To build an 80% faithful replica of a 1968-70 Nichels race chassis, you have a ton of cutting and pasting and fabricating to do. Those cars were built from the ground up as race pieces, not street converted. So if you want to reverse engineer it, here are some of the things you need to do. Rear spring perches are recessed up into the body, extended rear wheel tubs, fabricated trans tunnel, fabricated K-frame, fabricated firewall with cowl induction, unique hood hinges, battery relocated behind the LF wheel. Forget about using the stock radiator support - it's gone. Inner fenderwells, gone. The other 20% are the unique suspension pieces, spindles, wheels, coolers, air cleaners all of which are being chased by guys with real race cars. It's more than just gutting the interior and popping an interior cage in and a hoop to the front.
Every so often, you hear talk about how great it was when stock car racing used "stock' cars. The reality is that by the mid 1960's, other than the general torsion bar suspension layout and the body shape, that is about all that is "production" on a Chrysler stock car.
Quote from: daytonalo on September 21, 2006, 09:18:00 PM
Hey Doug , thank you , I'm not sure I understand your breakdown on tire size .
That's the old time tire size. There is a Goodyear Vintage Bluestreak available which should be very close. It is an 8.00-15. Fits a 15 x 10" rim, 26.5" diameter, tread width is 10.2". Section width is 12.9" About $230 each They have the original style tread pattern. These are supplied for vintage Trans-Am racers. www.sascosports.com
(http://www.racegoodyear.com/products/img/g7_blue.jpg)
Doug, I agree about the part of building a street replica. I think that just doing the general sheet metal conversions is close enough when done along with the exterior paint, decals etc. It would be very easy to replicate that air breather that is routed through the firewall, (Howie has excellent pics). Along with a basic roll cage, you could run a little roll cage tubing in the engine compartment, yet leave the engine bay fairly stock along with using the factory hood hinges. Just dummy up the rear hood pins and use the real front ones. The possibilities are endless and the result would look great. Personally, I would probably use stock bucket seat interior for the comfort level on long road trips or cruises. I'm too old to drive a stock-car down the interstate for hours on end.
Although people have been building replicas for years, it seems like there has never been any real organization to it. It would look a little strange to have numerous replicas of the same exact car at one car show, you know, like a DOH gathering (no offense intended).
Doug, ever thought about organizing a group to better establish a way of communicating with the guys that would be interested in doing this? People could join the group and share info about how to clone these cars as well as helping to insure that we don't have numerous duplicates of the more famous cars and none of the lesser known cars. The lesser known cars would be every bit as interesting as the famous ones, especially if the owner were to put up a poster board with pics and stories about the drivers and owners. If there was enough interest, Troy might create a seperate discussion board just for the stock car clones and the restored original stock cars.
My guys here at the shop are already interested in building a Petty clone using my 74 Charger, so I guess we're in.
There haven't been that many cars done so far.
The ones that come to mind are:
#43 Petty Superbird (factory built Superbird)
#71 Isaac Daytona (factory built Daytona)
#42 Marty Robbins Daytona
#88 test car
#99 Glotzbach (factory built Hemi Daytona)
Locally in Milwaukee there is a racing series that runs some replica vintage race cars. There is a #1 McCluskey Superbird made from a Coronet body with a homemade nose and wing. It runs a 355 small block and is a street based car with mods. There also is a very crude #6 Baker Daytona. But from the grandstands, they look pretty good.
That's all I can think of right now.
You can count me in also with my Petty 'bird. That would be awesome to see a pack of replicas out there on the high banks. Just like the good old days! :boogie:
I'm going to the Goodguys show at Texas Motor Speedway next weekend and one of the benefits of entering your car in the event is that you get to take a few laps around the track. The guys from my carclub said that race car clones get a ton of attention out there on the track.
We should definitely get something organized. It would be a blast. :drive:
Quote from: nitrometal on September 22, 2006, 08:48:19 PM
You can count me in also with my Petty 'bird. That would be awesome to see a pack of replicas out there on the high banks. Just like the good old days! :boogie:
I'm going to the Goodguys show at Texas Motor Speedway next weekend and one of the benefits of entering your car in the event is that you get to take a few laps around the track. The guys from my carclub said that race car clones get a ton of attention out there on the track.
We should definitely get something organized. It would be a blast. :drive:
I agree, I wonder what you can buy an outdated stock car for to use as parts.There is a car I saw at the Winged Warriors meet at Darlington last year which was the #61 Snap On Superbird. The car had a Franklin quick change rear and a front suspension (I am guessing)out of a late model stock car along with a lot of circle track stuff. In my case the 68 Charger body I am using has to be reinforced so my idea is to use 2x4 rectangular tubing behind the rocker panels for strength. X out the center section and reinforce the T bar crossmember.I alrready have the inner aprons and firewall removed and the front rails boxed.The great thing about this is that you can use parts that you wouldn't use on a show car.
I think Doug would back me on this idea that the FORD guys might want in also as they were the reason the winged cars were built in the first place. ideas?? Al
Quote
I think Doug would back me on this idea that the FORD guys might want in also as they were the reason the winged cars were built in the first place. ideas?? Al
Quote
I actually think that having the Ford guys would make it look even more realistic. That would be awesome having those retired replicas out there battling again.
I thought that I should build-up a David Pearson clone that my wife could drive to car shows with my Petty 'bird. That oughta get the crowd fired up seeing thise two side-by-side again! :bow:
The original plan for this duscussion board was to include all makes and models of the aero cars and I think that applies to any related areas as well. Just my opinion.
I think that for a nostalgia stock car (association, club, group, gathering, etc.) to be successful, you would definitely want all brands included. I see there being different classes, such as Original restored, Accurate recreation and Street version. Now all that we need is someone to take the ball and run with it...anyone...anyone? ;D
Quote from: hotrod98 on September 24, 2006, 08:24:06 PM
Now all that we need is someone to take the ball and run with it...anyone...anyone? ;D
I like your ideas on classes there Larry. :iagree:
I have the time available but I don't have the experience or the webmaster skills (but I would love to get involved in a project like this). Does someone know of some examples I can look at for this? I could probably get my daughter to help me on the web parts, she's pretty good at that and I need to learn it anyway.
Do you guys think that it needs to be a separate forum or its own little domain out there in hyperspace?
Phil
Yes nitro plz make the david pearson talladega!!!!!-MATT
Quote from: THE CHARGER PUNK on September 25, 2006, 02:27:46 PM
Yes nitro plz make the david pearson talladega!!!!!-MATT
There is a guy in Milwaukee who has made a glass front clip for a 'Dega. Also, I've heard there is a shop in FLorida who can make the steel fender extensions and header panel.
YEARS ago, we're talking 1978, there was a guy with a street Talladega done up as a race car that had a real Pearson front clip on it. He did some dirt track exhibition stuff and untimately smashed it.
One thing to keep in mind, is that the lower fender roll will need to be massaged as the Talladega has a different rocker panel contour than the standard Torino/Fairlane. The special rocker they built into the T's allowed them to lower the body an extra inch on the race chassis.
Aren't the Fords more complicated under the hood when it comes to suspension?Don't they have suspension set up same as a Mustang?
WOW! I had no clue that the Talladega's bodies & framework were that heavily modified :o
I figured it was just a Torino with a special paint job! I guess I should do a little research before I even consider doing a Pearson car, huh? It might be more difficult than a winged clone.
Does anyone have some comparison pics or know of a good site that shows that?
Don't forget you also have to take a rear bumper and cut some out of it and reweld it to get it on the front.
The suspension would be the same design as a Mustang but it doesn't present any problems until you try to change plugs or add headers to a 428.
Correct - front bumper is a modified rear Torino bumper. As I mentioned, the rocker panels are completely re-rolled to a shallower shape. It does not affect height on the street, but was intended for the race cars and allowed an extra inch of lowering. To build a car, the rocker panel to lower fender mating issue can be handled with a piece of painted rocker trim to cover the mismatch. Lou Whitfield did this on his #98 Lee Roy Yarbrough Spoiler II clone.
The inner headlight extensions are also special, but I think they are avail in glass or in steel. Inside hood release is a '69 Lincoln. Front turn signals are '69 Bronco.
There was some really good information about unique Talladega construction and conversion parts sources on another thread:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,11015.0.html
Doug even posted a diagram of the rocker panel modifications in that thread too - some excellent reading!
Cool...I'll go check it out. Thanks guys! :P
You know, I was thinking that I don't need an "exact" duplicate. I finally got to see my clone Petty 'bird next to a real Superbird. I was at our local Cruise Night last week when a lemon twist yellow car pulled up & parked next to mine (I've never seen another wing car since I moved here 18 years ago!!!). Man, they took a lot of short-cuts when they built mine, but, you know, it gets the point across. I don't think that most people would notice the changes. Even the hard core street rod nuts in my car club didn't realize all the differences between my clone and a real 'bird.
I'm thinking if I get something pretty close everyone would enjoy seeing those two side-by-side again. Don't you? And it would save a ton of money! $$$
really nitrometal the only difference between yours and a real bird is yours has no rear window plug,the hood isnt connected to the filler pan for the coronet hood 2 be a superbird hood, and ofcourse the engine and dash-MATT
Quote from: daytonalo on September 04, 2006, 10:11:29 AM
I totally agree ! Love to see one of current day drivers go 200 like buddy baker did in a old car !
I concur... :Twocents:
The one Doug pictured the 71 K&K daytona is a real 440 XX29 daytona of Dan Gaddis.He even rounded the hood egdes.And the tail light cover panel is plexiglass etc .It used to be light green with a old retro paint job
ancient thread!
Dan's hood was modified when the car was painted green WAYYYY back when.
Quote from: pettybird on November 28, 2007, 10:42:33 PM
ancient thread!
Dan's hood was modified when the car was painted green WAYYYY back when.
Here it is in its prior life.
(http://www.superbirdclub.com/files/gaddis1.JPG)
Ooooooooo!!
That's gotta get put on my "Worst Charger Paintjobs" thread! :lol:
Quote from: Magnumcharger on November 28, 2007, 11:34:43 PM
Ooooooooo!!
That's gotta get put on my "Worst Charger Paintjobs" thread! :lol:
I always thought it looked very nice in person, even the colors. The paint on that car was a mile deep, something like 20 coats of clear lacquer. For the time, it was tasteful.
My ideal car is a Isaac looking body with out the numbers. Paint it the right color of red, change the wing stripe to silver and have the lightning bolt but no writing on it. Keep it simple. People who know will appreciate it. Average Joe will think its just new graphics. Interior wise I would add a main hoop, a halo and A pillar posts. a couple of rear bars as long as they don't interfere with a rear passenger getting in or out. . Got to build a dash. Its just too cool and simple not to. Plus I can sell my nice restored instrument panel to pay for some of the mods. If I wanted to get closer to real I could take a pair of old dodge van seats and modify them for the front seats. It would be authentic Flat aluminum door panels with snap on vinyl covers. My car is getting cheaper for me to build . I don't have to buy expensive poor quality reproduction interior. By the way I am not a fan of year one. I buy from them only when I am forced. I like the steelies but I think a set of trans am mini lites with big rubber would look great on it. There goes the budget again. Keep it a street car keep it street comfortable Heated in cold, dry when it rains, and quiet windows. Suspension? Keep it close to stock Its a street car a lot of work has been done by smarter men than me to make it work.. Just get it lower. some day I will tell you about the car I am working on for a friend of mine. A real Mercury Spoiler II with a boss 429 for the street. :cheers:
My plan on My Next Daytona is a close to dead nuts as His car !! Maybe the Bonneville car with shaved drip rails !!!!
Quote from: DougSchellinger on November 28, 2007, 11:51:03 PM
Quote from: Magnumcharger on November 28, 2007, 11:34:43 PM
Ooooooooo!!
That's gotta get put on my "Worst Charger Paintjobs" thread! :lol:
I always thought it looked very nice in person, even the colors. The paint on that car was a mile deep, something like 20 coats of clear lacquer. For the time, it was tasteful.
And the car was Sublime--aged pics may be all that exist but they don't do it justice.
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b229/Annie75414/1969_DAYTONA_NUMBER_71_24-1.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b229/Annie75414/1969_DAYTONA_NUMBER_71_23.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b229/Annie75414/1969_DAYTONA_NUMBER_71_22.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b229/Annie75414/1969_DAYTONA_NUMBER_71_21.jpg)
They must have unsprung the weight of car and installed blocks when the trailer it . Look at how high the front is
So it really IS 200MPH tape!
It was after they used it. Before that it was much slower tape. :D
Quote from: Ghoste on November 30, 2007, 07:34:45 AM
It was after they used it. Before that it was much slower tape. :D
:smilielol:
The same # 71 street car.
Sure would look alot better with the front wheel openings in the "stock car" size, verses stock.
A person definately would not want to build a replica Daytona racecar out of a real Charger Daytona!
There would be far too many modifications required to the body to achieve that visual image.
Although in my opinion, the street car looks positively candy-assed compared to the attitude of the real race machine!
Quote from: Magnumcharger on November 30, 2007, 05:18:39 PM
The same # 71 street car.
Sure would look alot better with the front wheel openings in the "stock car" size, verses stock.
A person definately would not want to build a replica Daytona racecar out of a real Charger Daytona!
There would be far too many modifications required to the body to achieve that visual image.
Although in my opinion, the street car looks positively candy-assed compared to the attitude of the real race machine!
they still look good though and there are several real street daytona running around in stock car garb but like you say not modified to the extreme
If it is the last thing I do , I will make one identical to Bobby's # 71 , flares , cage , no headight doors , fuel cell . Looking for a donar car right now .
Larry
You could start with some other '66-70 B-body (I think even a 4-door would theoretically work for the floor/framerails) and then just drop the Charger body onto it. That's exactly what a lot of the old NASCARs were built like, and it would spare you the problem of digging up a '70 Charger body that has a solid platform.
Thanks , but that is twice the work that I want to do .
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b229/Annie75414/1969_DAYTONA_NUMBER_71_09.jpg)
Quote from: daytonalo on November 30, 2007, 09:29:58 PM
Thanks , but that is twice the work that I want to do .
Lazy!
When was the change between saying Daytona on the stripe and having the crew's names on there?
Quote from: Ghoste on December 01, 2007, 12:07:07 AM
When was the change between saying Daytona on the stripe and having the crew's names on there?
Yeah, and when did the font style for the number 71 change as well?
QuoteThanks , but that is twice the work that I want to do .
Yeah, I don't exactly blame you for just wanting to just use a decent '70 if you can find it.
Lord knows a project is easier when you start with a decent body shell.
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But I actually think my weird idea back there is becoming gradually less weird by the year.
These days most 2nd-gen Charger body shells you can find will need virtually everything replaced between the framerails and the roof skin.
That's a hell of a lot of work too. All those spot-welds. And money. And crap chinese replacement metal.
Whereas with doing my idea, some of the other B-body plaforms are still available kinda cheap even without any rust at all.
And the Charger donor skin to go on top of it could be a no-framerails cheapo.
Quote from: Ghoste on December 01, 2007, 12:07:07 AM
When was the change between saying Daytona on the stripe and having the crew's names on there?
That looks to be a short track car with the headlight door for the oil cooler open. . After looking at a lot of pictures I saw several different tracks with the different lettering. Daytona, Riverside, Atlanta. My thought is that It must have been re lettered after the season was over before going to the salt flats.
Any idea how many Daytonas ran out of the K&K stables?
I'll bet the house that the Daytona Wellborne owns is not the same car that set records in Bonneville . Bonneville car has no drip rails, smaller back window and faired in A-pillar trim . Tim car has drip rails and reg Daytona window . No way did they reinstall these items
And only because I'm too lazy to look it up for myself, which version is it lettered as Larry? (I agree with you btw, I can't see anyone reinstalling drip rails, you never know, but it seems doubtful)
Quote from: daytonalo on December 02, 2007, 10:12:06 PM
I'll bet the house that the Daytona Wellborne owns is not the same car that set records in Bonneville . Bonneville car has no drip rails, smaller back window and faired in A-pillar trim . Tim car has drip rails and reg Daytona window . No way did they reinstall these items
We've discussed this whole subject before, nothing new. I'm still of the opinion that Mr. Wellborn's car is the Bonneville car.
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,19598.0.html
Don't worry Larry, I'm not looking for any real estate in the Northeast... :P
Quote from: hemigeno on December 02, 2007, 10:55:29 PM
Quote from: daytonalo on December 02, 2007, 10:12:06 PM
I'll bet the house that the Daytona Wellborne owns is not the same car that set records in Bonneville . Bonneville car has no drip rails, smaller back window and faired in A-pillar trim . Tim car has drip rails and reg Daytona window . No way did they reinstall these items
We've discussed this whole subject before, nothing new. I'm still of the opinion that Mr. Wellborn's car is the Bonneville car.
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,19598.0.html
Don't worry Larry, I'm not looking for any real estate in the Northeast... :P
How DO you find the link to these previous - and pertainent - threads??
I'd like to know how he remembers threads from over a year ago. Rereading the old thread leaves me wondering if it is or isn't. Somebody on here must know Tim or Roger Gibson well enough to ask about the drip rail thing?
Some things just ring a bell I guess, and the driprail thing was one I remembered.
About the only issue that isn't readily explainable is the rear plug. However, I took a close look at one of the pictures, and you can still see the outline of the original window glass opening. More than likely, they removed the standard moulding and used something else (tape?? plastic??) as fairing in this area. Just another aero trick on an aero car - but I really don't think this was a different window plug or some other major modification that would indicate it was a different car.
If it were that important, I might be able to relay a question to Harry Lee Hyde, Jr. who was at the Bonneville test on the crew AND has driven Mr. Wellborn's car after its restoration. He'd be as reliable a source as anyone.
Quote from: hemigeno on December 03, 2007, 10:18:06 AM
Some things just ring a bell I guess, and the driprail thing was one I remembered.
About the only issue that isn't readily explainable is the rear plug. However, I took a close look at one of the pictures, and you can still see the outline of the original window glass opening. More than likely, they removed the standard moulding and used something else (tape?? plastic??) as fairing in this area. Just another aero trick on an aero car - but I really don't think this was a different window plug or some other major modification that would indicate it was a different car.
If it were that important, I might be able to relay a question to Harry Lee Hyde, Jr. who was at the Bonneville test on the crew AND has driven Mr. Wellborn's car after its restoration. He'd be as reliable a source as anyone.
does anyone know what the vent is there in the plug area ??
I thought it was the fuel tank vent?
Quote from: moparstuart on December 03, 2007, 10:56:02 AM
does anyone know what the vent is there in the plug area ??
My guess is, in the days before the catch-can, it's a gas tank vent.
Quote from: learical1 on December 03, 2007, 11:05:04 AM
Quote from: moparstuart on December 03, 2007, 10:56:02 AM
does anyone know what the vent is there in the plug area ??
My guess is, in the days before the catch-can, it's a gas tank vent.
makes sense
If I remember correctly. It was brought up at the '99 Tallageda Reunion that during the resto at Gibson's they found a lot of salt under various sections/components of the 71 K&K car.
Quote from: learical1 on December 03, 2007, 11:05:04 AM
Quote from: moparstuart on December 03, 2007, 10:56:02 AM
does anyone know what the vent is there in the plug area ??
My guess is, in the days before the catch-can, it's a gas tank vent.
Just a hypothesis on my part, working in the aero-space field as I am....
On some aircraft, there are fuel vents located high and aft that work on the principle of scavaging fumes in a low pressure area.
This would likely be the case given the proximity of the vent to the fuel tank, and it's position on the Daytona.
As I study that small window , I could use the non plug widow and make my own plug
The pic of the back and the plug reminds me a lot of the modern funny cars. Just the general shape and everything being so smooth I guess. :shruggy:
Hey Gene, to save you asking Harry Lee Hide I'll tell you what he told me at the Monster Mopar this past year. The car that Tim has is definately the car they took to Bonneville, that is according to him. He said there was multiple things about that car that were unique to it, and when he saw the car when Tim had it he knew it was the same car. I've got it on video as well, if anyone is interested, but it will be still a while before I get to editing that interview. I'm slow at editing now, as I spend too much time doing everything else.
I have to change my position of doubt then. You can't argue with the people who knew the car firsthand. :cheers:
I would like to ask him when they welded back the drip rails and installed the correct back window .
I suppose they put the driprails back on because it was required by NASCAR (if they were ever really taken off in the first place). The rear window plug was never changed out to start with (so all they had to do was rip out whatever fairing material they used at Bonneville and put the stock moulding back in place).
:shruggy:
Why would they put the drip rails back on to satisfy NASCAR? The Wing Cars were alreay banned by the point that K&K was racing at Bonneville, weren't they? As I posted above, I don't think they were ever removed. I'm just asking a hypothetical question.
That has been my logic all along , but most on here think I'm and Idiot !!
I don't really see any photo's that conclusively show that they did remove the drip rail mouldings at Bonneville. Both photo's you can make out the drip rail mouldings, and as far as the ones where you can't, I would say it it due to them being partially filled in for better aerodynamics out there.
Quote from: daytonalo on December 04, 2007, 07:38:37 AM
That has been my logic all along , but most on here think I'm and Idiot !!
no one thinks your an idiot !! just alittle more abrasive for most peoples taste, and of course very opinionated like me
Quote from: daytonalo on December 04, 2007, 07:38:37 AM
most on here think I'm and Idiot !!
You are NOT an Idiot. However, you COULD use a little of definition 1 and 2 of:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tact
::)
Quote from: 69_500 on December 04, 2007, 08:27:18 AM
I don't really see any photo's that conclusively show that they did remove the drip rail mouldings at Bonneville. Both photo's you can make out the drip rail mouldings, and as far as the ones where you can't, I would say it it due to them being partially filled in for better aerodynamics out there.
:iagree:
The car has been repainted since the salt flat runs. And knowing the quality of body filler in 1970 it would have been no trouble to chip it out of drip rails at the time it was painted. The salt pictures show a 71 on the deck lid. The Wellborn car at Talladega has not. So it has to be repainted. I am of the opinion that the Wellborn car is the real thing.
No way was it filled , look at the countour , if it was filled it would roll out at an different angle
Having looked at all the pictures from Bonneville and the photos from areowarriors I feel safe to say that The drip rails were not re-welded to the roof. I say that It has a different roof skin completely on the car. Not only does it not have the drip rails the roof is narrow at the top like it has had a section cut out of the middle. It may have been the same roof that was raced with the drip rails attached to it. And the rails removed for the speed run. That would also explain the small rear window.
I found video clip of Harry Hyde Jr at 1999 reunion. I understand from his comments that a lot of work was done on the car after they returned just to stop the rust. And If the car was going on exhibit. The drip rails would become a point of controversy just as they are here. I am sure that there were plenty of skins available. That it was easier to replace the roof and plug than fix the drip rails.They probably had one off another car that was getting updated sheetmetal. The car was repainted explaining the loss of the number on the deck lid. And I am the only one that noticed that it has a different color red at Bonneville than at Talladega museum
Impossible to tell from photos ,Ford poppy red is the color !
I really don't think the roof is altered so heavily like that.
The windshield/greenhouse probably looks taller on those cars because the dashboards are lower & flatter than the stock ones. And the whole cars are lowered at the rockers compared to stock ones too.
I making my call based on the rear profile of the roof. and I found a picture of the A pillars and the top and bottom windshield trim moulding is cut square and butts into the posts with no side trim. At nascar tech the lack of side mouldings would not have been visible, because they are covered by the stainless A pillar covers. That alone is 3/4" per side . And its Harry Hyde's job to find all of the little gray areas in the rule book. I am sure that any thing to narrow the frontal profile was done especially on the roof. A part that rarely would be replaced if in an accident. I will make a call tomorrow and find out.
those fender scoops are moulded into the fenders the welbourne car definitely does not :rotz:
But was it done permanently or temporarily with some type of filler?
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b229/Annie75414/HarryHyde.jpg)
awesome pix
Does that last picture's tailstripe say
CHARGER
DAYTONA
:scope:
Don't know if I remember a paint scheme of his with that particular stripe lettering, or anyone else's for that matter.
Stretched it out...looks like "Charger"...
Quote from: nascarxx29 on December 05, 2007, 08:48:29 PM
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b229/Annie75414/HarryHyde.jpg)
Looks like those gutters are folded up a bit - too tall for the chrome cover on production
cars: very easy to fill in and paint over for a saltflat run :icon_smile_big:
Bad photo angle
Quote from: Magnumcharger on December 06, 2007, 12:14:31 AM
Stretched it out...looks like "Charger"...
Yep, the "Charger" part was fairly clear - but do you guys think it says "Daytona" underneath that? I can see the tops of a few letters below, and the first partial character looks like the end of a "T" followed by what looks like an "O". Hard to see in the original picture, and because of Harry Hyde's posterior it's even hard to read in the picture you stretched out (thanks for doing that, BTW).
thats a great picture
This old model kit appears to have a photo as the box top where the stripe says charger daytona
Quote from: learical1 on December 06, 2007, 12:03:37 PM
This old model kit appears to have a photo as the box top where the stripe says charger daytona
looks like geno nailed it
Here are a couple pics I took. Nothing great, but I figured some here may like to see them. :
Quote from: learical1 on December 06, 2007, 12:03:37 PM
This old model kit appears to have a photo as the box top where the stripe says charger daytona
And the wing is red, just like in the Harry Hyde pic.
Anybody else notice the black blow out strips on the backlite??? It appears to be flat stock wrapped in Electrical tape to protect glass :icon_smile_big:
I was looking for another photo in my press pictures.Of the 71K&Kto compare it.I got that model kit
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e67/75414/100_2900.jpg)
Quote from: nascarxx29 on December 07, 2007, 10:09:55 AM
I was looking for another photo in my press pictures.Of the 71K&Kto compare it.I got that model kit
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e67/75414/100_2900.jpg)
You know...if you were to scan each of those photos, and post them here at 200 KBs, it would make an excellent Christmas present to your breathren here at Dodgecharger.com......just a thought. :cheers:
:drool5: :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod:
Is that the same press kit that is currently for sale in the garage sale section? I know its not Dave who is selling it, but appears to be the same one.
Quote from: 69_500 on December 07, 2007, 04:18:53 PM
Is that the same press kit that is currently for sale in the garage sale section? I know its not Dave who is selling it, but appears to be the same one.
no, my k&k insurance press kits don't have near that many pictures! The two pictures I posted are the only glossies that come with the kit. there are a couple of other pictures in the kit, but they're on regular paper. You mainly get printed sheets, like press bio's, text to radio and tv spots, etc., but few pictures.
Those and many more pictures are from the men who raced daytona literature package.Got the same 71 model kit in plastic never opened .(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b229/Annie75414/model71.jpg)
I looked on Greed -Bay for a # 71 Ertl model , didn't see any , where can I buy one ? The metal fully assembled type
Larry
You mean this one??
http://www.scale18.com/cgi-bin/page/browse?back=0&what=1&c0=Year%3A1969.5+&c1=Make%3ADodge+&c2=*
I just went on that site , No # 71 , just a Daytona
Google: Ertl 29344
http://www.diecastmusclecars.com/daytonanascar.htm
How 'bout this one Doc?
Thank you
larry you said toys were a waste of money and space
In this section
I don't know if it's actually available but Chrysler was offering the 71 K&K diecast through Mopar Performance. Part number P5153500.
Quote from: hemigeno on December 05, 2007, 10:48:35 PM
Does that last picture's tailstripe say
CHARGER
DAYTONA
:scope:
Don't know if I remember a paint scheme of his with that particular stripe lettering, or anyone else's for that matter.
Both those photos (Hyde and the model box) are from Talladega in '69.
Quote from: DougSchellinger on December 11, 2007, 01:24:31 PM
Both those photos (Hyde and the model box) are from Talladega in '69.
First ever race for the Daytona then - makes a little more sense then... if they built and/or brought the car to the track never having seen a street Daytona or another race Daytona, they might have assumed it would say "Charger Daytona"?? :shruggy:
It's interesting that the stripe never looked like that again though.
Was watching TV, In The Day. And they featured the 72 Martinville race and Bobby Isacc was racing a 70 Charger. And kicking butt leading untill the engine blew.
Cool, that footage could still be out there someplace. There's a pic of him running a 70 in his biography running a short track. Don't have the book in front of me at the moment but I think it may even be on dirt??