Its been a few years since i got my charger done now. One thing that never been right was the steering. Sorted out various bits and pieces, but its clear my rather wide front wheels are not helping.
For reasons that i now cant remember, i bought some wheels from year one, that i have on the invoice as "OE steels". Leaving aside that no OE would produce wheels so badly, i bought 8 inch wide with 4 inch baclspace all round.
But at the front thats just too wide.
Looking at year ones website, i see the only width less than 8 is only 7 inch. Is this what people are using? What size tyres are you guys running? And what backspace?
Any suggestions and pictures of yours appreciated. I want to stick with the steels for now.
Nice looking Charger. I think in general 7 is more common. You will want to check out this link, 20 pages on wheels.
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,63191.0.html (http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,63191.0.html)
I found the wheels on Year One's web site. https://www.yearone.com/Catalog/chrysler.b.body/wheels-.-brakes-.-rear-axle/wheels-.-reproduction/oe-steel
MSW1 is 15x7 with 4 1/8" BS
MSW2 is 15x8 with 4" BS
MSW3 is 15x8 with 4 1/2" BS
MSW4 is 15x10 with 5 1/2" BS
The MSW3 and MSW4 appear to be 0 offset (factory spec) and the MSW1 is close. If you have the MSW2 then that is definitely not ideal. 0 offset means the mounting surface is exactly in the center of the wheel. A person would think that this would equate to 4" on an 8" wheel *EXCEPT* wheel width is measured from the inside edges of the outer rim (the tire mounting surface). The actual overall width of the wheel would be 9" and the backspace 4.5". If you have 4" backspacing then your wheels are pushed 1/2" out from stock (closer to the fender).
You never said what size tires you are running. The "standard" package that many people run would have a 235/60-15 on a either a 7" or 8" wheel with 0 offset. This tire will be a little over 9" wide (depends on a few things like manufacturer and wheel width) and seems to clear everything on just about all 68-70 Chargers. I have run these with wheels that were 3 3/4" backspace and still didn't hit anything. If clearance is tight, a 225 series tire will be about 3/8" skinnier and a 215 about 3/4" skinnier (gets you 3/16" and 3/8" extra room per side respectively).
You didn't say if your tires were rubbing or hitting the fender or any steering/suspension parts. If nothing is hitting then changing wheel width isn't likely to solve anything. If the car is "tramlining" - basically following the ruts in the road - then it can be likely solved with skinnier tires. If it's "loose" then it can be partly attributed to Mopar overboosted power steering and partly to alignment. Most of the time if the car feels "darty" or "squirrelly" the alignment is incorrect. You shouldn't follow the factory alignment settings if you're running wide tires! These cars are notorious for not having enough caster adjustment. Moog even makes a "problem solver" bolts to help.
Follow the alignment setting here:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,134207.msg1664712.html#msg1664712
Troy
Quote from: Troy on December 03, 2018, 07:09:26 PM
I found the wheels on Year One's web site. https://www.yearone.com/Catalog/chrysler.b.body/wheels-.-brakes-.-rear-axle/wheels-.-reproduction/oe-steel
MSW1 is 15x7 with 4 1/8" BS
MSW2 is 15x8 with 4" BS
MSW3 is 15x8 with 4 1/2" BS
MSW4 is 15x10 with 5 1/2" BS
The MSW3 and MSW4 appear to be 0 offset (factory spec) and the MSW1 is close. If you have the MSW2 then that is definitely not ideal. 0 offset means the mounting surface is exactly in the center of the wheel. A person would think that this would equate to 4" on an 8" wheel *EXCEPT* wheel width is measured from the inside edges of the outer rim (the tire mounting surface). The actual overall width of the wheel would be 9" and the backspace 4.5". If you have 4" backspacing then your wheels are pushed 1/2" out from stock (closer to the fender).
You never said what size tires you are running. The "standard" package that many people run would have a 235/60-15 on a either a 7" or 8" wheel with 0 offset. This tire will be a little over 9" wide (depends on a few things like manufacturer and wheel width) and seems to clear everything on just about all 68-70 Chargers. I have run these with wheels that were 3 3/4" backspace and still didn't hit anything. If clearance is tight, a 225 series tire will be about 3/8" skinnier and a 215 about 3/4" skinnier (gets you 3/16" and 3/8" extra room per side respectively).
You didn't say if your tires were rubbing or hitting the fender or any steering/suspension parts. If nothing is hitting then changing wheel width isn't likely to solve anything. If the car is "tramlining" - basically following the ruts in the road - then it can be likely solved with skinnier tires. If it's "loose" then it can be partly attributed to Mopar overboosted power steering and partly to alignment. Most of the time if the car feels "darty" or "squirrelly" the alignment is incorrect. You shouldn't follow the factory alignment settings if you're running wide tires! These cars are notorious for not having enough caster adjustment. Moog even makes a "problem solver" bolts to help.
Follow the alignment setting here:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,134207.msg1664712.html#msg1664712
Troy
Thanks Troy. Yes they are msw2, with 275's. I'm looking at the 7 inch wide with 225 tires instead. From what you say, this would be a pretty common combo?
I've done everything else, social upper arms for increased castor, eliminated play on the steering to almost nothing, bearing style idler etc. But it tramlines a bit and just feels blunt around the centre point which I'm putting down to the width of the tires. The only clearance issue is at the front on full lock, which will be solved with the narrower set up.
You have 275 on front? That's tricky! But could definitely cause your problems.
If you only hit at full lock then I'd just go with skinnier tires. There's no need to buy new wheels and have them painted. Remember that the height of the tire is proportional to the width. The combination of 275/60-15 rear and 235/70-15 front is popular because the tires are exactly the same diameter but 1 1/2" different in width (3/4" each side) so the fronts will clear when turning. Going to a 235/60-15 gives the car a little rake (lowers the front by about an inch) but you'll need an alignment. A 225/70-15 will be about 1/2" and a 225/75-15 will be slightly taller. Anything smaller than 235 starts to look a bit too skinny for my tastes.
What size are your rear tires?
Troy
Quote from: Troy on December 04, 2018, 07:48:43 PM
You have 275 on front? That's tricky! But could definitely cause your problems.
If you only hit at full lock then I'd just go with skinnier tires. There's no need to buy new wheels and have them painted. Remember that the height of the tire is proportional to the width. The combination of 275/60-15 rear and 235/70-15 front is popular because the tires are exactly the same diameter but 1 1/2" different in width (3/4" each side) so the fronts will clear when turning. Going to a 235/60-15 gives the car a little rake (lowers the front by about an inch) but you'll need an alignment. A 225/70-15 will be about 1/2" and a 225/75-15 will be slightly taller. Anything smaller than 235 starts to look a bit too skinny for my tastes.
What size are your rear tires?
Troy
Sorry, finger trouble!! 245, not 275. So 245 all round. But as you say, the offsets not quite right.
So I think i'll still get the 7 inch wheels anyway. A 225 on the rims i have will look a bit odd compared to the rear, even if it would work.
Thanks for your help :) :)
I have run 245/60-15's on 8" wheels, and 235/70-15" on 8" wheels on the front of a 73 I used to have and it steered well with both combo's. I have run 255/60-15's on 7" wheels on my 72 Charger for many years and steered well with them. I recently put 225/70-15's on the same 7" wheels on the 72 recently and it still steers great. I am not convinced the width of the wheel your using is your problem.
It's best to set as much caster as it can take, 5* if you can get it. Then a little more toe with radials than the old bias ply tires needed. I set toe with a straight edge and tape measure. I have about 1/8 to 3/16 "toe in" set on my cars.
Quote from: Paul G on December 08, 2018, 12:54:53 AM
I have run 245/60-15's on 8" wheels, and 235/70-15" on 8" wheels on the front of a 73 I used to have and it steered well with both combo's. I have run 255/60-15's on 7" wheels on my 72 Charger for many years and steered well with them. I recently put 225/70-15's on the same 7" wheels on the 72 recently and it still steers great. I am not convinced the width of the wheel your using is your problem.
It's best to set as much caster as it can take, 5* if you can get it. Then a little more toe with radials than the old bias ply tires needed. I set toe with a straight edge and tape measure. I have about 1/8 to 3/16 "toe in" set on my cars.
Thanks Paul. I have however tried all those things. Im at about 4.5 degrees castor with SPC arms on it. I cant get any more the the left side.
That said, i think part of my problem is my expectation is higher than that which is achievable. This is the only chrysler ive owned. Its as good as or better than other ones ive driven as ive set a few alignments up, but im just not happy with it.
If i didn't have to cut off the bumpstop brackets, i think id already be at an Alterkation conversion. That and the fact i cant retain my factory disc brakes.