I was having a discussion with some friends the other days as we were looking over our car and this came up. And they said it shouldn't be any different. I replyed "maybe several differences". My Charger is about 17 ft long with a long hood and long nose over hang. Even though my pickup is 17 ft long, the hood is really short and my wife's Acura is shorter with a short hood. I can see myself driving my Charger and forgetting about that looong hood. Also the sides stick out (car is 10" wider) unlike the Acura which has straight up and down sides. I would say this is true in general on new cars.
So I can see that I'm going to have to adjust my thoughts on how much clearance at the sides and how much space in front. Then, maybe, there's the longer turning radius, longer stopping distance, etc.
This is not to mention all the rubberneckers gawking at my car, forgetting to drive and running into me.
You folks ever think about this?
Best comparison to a 69 charger would be a modern lx platform. Take my 07 charger rt that i had. Its essentially the same wheelbase, they weigh the same, and have similar stock performance numbers. But when you start factoring in the technology is where it gets different. A 400hp 5.7 hemi is a totaly different animal from a 400hp 383. The 727 vs a nag1 is night and day as well. Then talk about the mercedes suspension crammed under the early lxs vs 1960s and youve get a real eye opener. And this is all before we talk about the bells and whistles.
Yep, my daily driver is an LX and it's a totally different animal than my "old cars". I wouldn't want to have any of my old cars as a daily driver; it's kinda like the old saying...."nice place to visit but I wouldn't wanna live there".
The only thing I do differently is to be more aware of the cars around me. It's the "gawkers " that have created more close calls than anything else over the years. People seem to have a need to pass me more when I'm in the Charger than normally. Tailgating by "fast and furious" wannabes and climate change activists can be distracting also.....
I drive my 68 ALL over the place & the gawkers are the scary part, they turn their head to look at the car while going 70 mph, their hands on the steering wheel follow their eyes & run you off the road, LOOK out it dangerous out there.
No concern to me. My previous 68 was a beautiful driving car. Would have driven it anywhere. I drive my 59 Cadillac everywhere too. If you're in the left lane passing everyone you don't get jammed up by the gawkers :o
I think you have to be a bit more alert and aware when driving the old cars vs. new. Was just telling my daughter this a few weeks ago when she asked me how I am able to judge the nose of the car and the C pillar blind spot, and the fact that when the sun visor is down you have about 4 inches of visibility due to the dash LOL...
for someone who never drove one of these before, you can't just jump out of your Honda civic 5 speed and think you can be an instant expert.
What drives me crazy is if I am on a hill and stopped, I always have Ahole drivers who stop about an inch from my bumper. Being a 4 speed, there is always the risk of rolling back and I don't want to sit there and ride the clutch so I find myself using the parking brake or my line loc LOL.
When I am behind or in front of a classic, I like to give them more space having been in that spot..
Quote from: green69rt on August 07, 2018, 11:44:40 AM
You folks ever think about this?
No, any machine of conveyance has it's own nuances of operation, the only thing dictating any extraordinary diligence on one's behalf when driving a "high profile" vehicle is the human condition of others accompanied by texting, picture/video taking, and the geegaw brain dead individuals who need to ride on your bumper/or drive into you for a better look...
I like this one best ;)
If you're in the left lane passing everyone you don't get jammed up by the gawkers Shocked
I have a 1922 Model T that I drive now and then
Have not had it out for quite a few years
One time we were out for a drive in it and I had turned into a parking lot so I could head back the other way
While in the safe parking lot I saw a guy gawking at me driving down the road I had just turned off
Someone in front of him had stopped to make a left turn and he drove right into the back of the other car bang
Idiots everywhere so beware
I have driven mostly vintage Mopars, but have also driven small cars like a vintage Honda Civic & I also had an unlimited CDL, tankers, Haz-mat, tandem trailers, 72 passenger bus, 6x6 fire truck, snow plows, etc, etc.
With any ride, know your car / truck & situational awareness matters!
I do not think about driving new cars at all, they do not interest me.
Different genre and experience altogether in my opinion, dunno if you can really "compare" the two ?
Totally different feels, ride, sounds and smells.
Hands down in traffic, bumper to bumper and around town I'd take the my new stuff, but if I gotta drive 50 miles to town on the highway winding through the mountains at 65-70 mph, waaaay more fun in the R/T with the windows down, and, it's "passing" power at 65-70 mph is a far superior experience, the low-drone of the 4 BBL is pretty unique.
Winding roads through the mountains at 65-70? I'd prefer my '08 Magnum RT with the A/C full blast and the Mygig Boston stereo hummin. Accelerates right along with the 440 Charger, starts right up hot or cold and idles smooth as glass with a little rumble.
Sorry John, but I would take & drive his 69 Black R/T SE over that magnum on ANY type of road . any day, any way LOL, or my 68 that has AC :)
Quote from: John_Kunkel on August 08, 2018, 01:43:07 PM
Winding roads through the mountains at 65-70? I'd prefer my '08 Magnum RT with the A/C full blast and the Mygig Boston stereo hummin. Accelerates right along with the 440 Charger, starts right up hot or cold and idles smooth as glass with a little rumble.
Only problem with "modern iron" like this is the mindless, numbed-down, boring ride where you need AC and a stereo to stimulate you, I'd rather wind around some canyon roads in vintage iron rowing thru the gears, hearing an awesome exhaust note at full blast, and multiple carbs sing their song, and honing my driving skills....
Quote from: timmycharger on August 07, 2018, 12:53:29 PM
.....I always have Ahole drivers who stop about an inch from my bumper.....
Yeah, I don't get his Mike. What is it with idiots having to bury their front end into my rear bumper space. To the point where I can't see the hood of their car in my side view mirror. What does this prove??? Are your brakes that bad that you have to jack them at all stop lights nearly hitting the guy in front of you? When I approach a traffic light or stop sign with a car ahead of me, I leave at least a one car space cushion. Sometimes I'll get strange vibes thinking the people behind saying "Are you going to pull up into that dead space?"
Quote from: VegasCharger on August 08, 2018, 09:37:03 PM
Quote from: timmycharger on August 07, 2018, 12:53:29 PM
.....I always have Ahole drivers who stop about an inch from my bumper.....
Sometimes I'll get strange vibes thinking the people behind saying "Are you going to pull up into that dead space?"
Yes they are! Sometime when you're in a line where the person behind you can't go around you (i.e. airport security), let the space in front front of you grow. Even though it does not create delay, it drives people nuts!
Quote from: John_Kunkel on August 08, 2018, 01:43:07 PM
Winding roads through the mountains at 65-70? I'd prefer my '08 Magnum RT with the A/C full blast and the Mygig Boston stereo hummin. Accelerates right along with the 440 Charger, starts right up hot or cold and idles smooth as glass with a little rumble.
What model of 2nd Gen Charger do you have that you are comparing to John ?
I liked DRIVING my 07 rt through the windy hills at speed with the windows down and manually shifting the nag1, sliding the rear out drifting on command enjoying the powerfull roar through my catless ultraflows. Its a different animal then the 69. Both are fun through the curves. But the way you drive them is completly different. Long highway cruises the 07 wins with the 2.82 gears and steep overdrive. Add the mds and at 70 mph i got 30 mpg on vacation trips out of a 12 second 4500 pound car.
Quote from: Challenger340 on August 08, 2018, 10:13:51 PM
Quote from: John_Kunkel on August 08, 2018, 01:43:07 PM
Winding roads through the mountains at 65-70? I'd prefer my '08 Magnum RT with the A/C full blast and the Mygig Boston stereo hummin. Accelerates right along with the 440 Charger, starts right up hot or cold and idles smooth as glass with a little rumble.
What model of 2nd Gen Charger do you have that you are comparing to John ?
Any of them.
The one thing that pisses me off the most are the kids/millenials that film you while they are driving. Not the passenger, but the dam driver has his phone out and making a stupid video so he can post it later. A kid did this to me in his Neon while riding my ass. People are getting dumber. Reminds me of the first 5 minutes of the movie "Idiocracy".
The biggest comparison I make when I drive my car now is, I REALLY miss rack and pinion steering, like almost any other late model car has.
I've done a ton of suspension and chassis updates, and don't really miss anything there, but 50 year old steering boxes absolutely suck.
Mine is in good condition with no leaks or anything, I accept that's just how they were, but it's the worst part of driving a vintage Mopar to me. By far.
I may upgrade to a borgenson one day, but the reliability of them seems to be lacking. I would love a bolt on rack and pinion upgrade, but it seems like the only aftermarket attempt at one was terrible.
I really don't have any other complaints driving it vs. new cars though. Except for the no overdrive thing.
Quote from: JR on August 11, 2018, 01:31:09 PM
The biggest comparison I make when I drive my car now is, I REALLY miss rack and pinion steering, like almost any other late model car has.
I've done a ton of suspension and chassis updates, and don't really miss anything there, but 50 year old steering boxes absolutely suck.
Mine is in good condition with no leaks or anything, I accept that's just how they were, but it's the worst part of driving a vintage Mopar to me. By far.
I may upgrade to a borgenson one day, but the reliability of them seems to be lacking. I would love a bolt on rack and pinion upgrade, but it seems like the only aftermarket attempt at one was terrible.
I really don't have any other complaints driving it vs. new cars though. Except for the no overdrive thing.
I hear this horror story all the time. I have a stock manual box in mine and its rock solid at 130 mph, i hand for parking lot manuevers. Rebuild or replace what is worn out. Set the alignment for modern tires. It makes a new car.
Predictably reverting to the same argument as the "what your carb can do for you" thread. Old versus new and the diehards persist. ::)
QuoteThe biggest comparison I make when I drive my car now is, I REALLY miss rack and pinion steering, like almost any other late model car has.
I've done a ton of suspension and chassis updates, and don't really miss anything there, but 50 year old steering boxes absolutely suck.
Mine is in good condition with no leaks or anything, I accept that's just how they were, but it's the worst part of driving a vintage Mopar to me. By far.
I may upgrade to a borgenson one day, but the reliability of them seems to be lacking. I would love a bolt on rack and pinion upgrade, but it seems like the only aftermarket attempt at one was terrible.
I really don't have any other complaints driving it vs. new cars though. Except for the no overdrive thing.
Have you added a few degrees of front end caster (aftermarket UCAs or offset bushings) in the alignment?
That is what makes the steering pull itself back to center when you let go of the wheel while you're rolling. It's not the steering gearbox itself.
Yup. I've got fully adjustible SPC upper control arms, a good alignment, nitto 555s, up sized front and rear sway bars, adjustable shocks, fresh steering column coupler, and more.
(Aside from the box) I'm happy with the handling and chassis now. it's predictable, and neutral in corners.
My box has been adjusted to get all the possible slack out, and doesn't leak or anything. It's in good condition.
But there's still that on center dead spot that every old Mopar ive ever driven has, almost no road feel, 16 to 1 gear ratio (?), and lack of communication to the front tires. I know about the modification to reduce power steering pressure, but I don't want to do that since I have alot of caster already and steering effort is already higher than normal.
If the aftermarket would come out with a bolt in subframe that kept the torsion bars, but allowed rack and pinion with no geometry issues, I'd be perfectly happy.
I think I'm going to swap in a smaller diameter Nardi steering wheel, and weld up the kframe next and see what (perceived) improvement they make.
I can't stand new cars. If I was to get something more modern, it'd probably be a '70 or '71 Challenger, but that's as new as I'll go for a daily driver. The race cars are newer, but that's because I'm not about to destroy something I like on the track. That makes you uncompetitive.
JR is right. I have many upgrades in mine as well and my alignment has over 4 degrees of Caster....But the steering from center is not good. It is surely the weak link.
Quote from: JR on August 11, 2018, 11:26:58 PM
Yup. I've got fully adjustible SPC upper control arms, a good alignment, nitto 555s, up sized front and rear sway bars, adjustable shocks, fresh steering column coupler, and more.
(Aside from the box) I'm happy with the handling and chassis now. it's predictable, and neutral in corners.
My box has been adjusted to get all the possible slack out, and doesn't leak or anything. It's in good condition.
But there's still that on center dead spot that every old Mopar ive ever driven has, almost no road feel, 16 to 1 gear ratio (?), and lack of communication to the front tires. I know about the modification to reduce power steering pressure, but I don't want to do that since I have alot of caster already and steering effort is already higher than normal.
If the aftermarket would come out with a bolt in subframe that kept the torsion bars, but allowed rack and pinion with no geometry issues, I'd be perfectly happy.
I think I'm going to swap in a smaller diameter Nardi steering wheel, and weld up the kframe next and see what (perceived) improvement they make.
I had a smaller diameter steering wheel (14"?) with a parts store power steering box and new ball joints/poly bushings, and mine handled pretty good and was enjoyable to drive. I, however, like plenty of steering boost.
Mine drives like a new car :D
A new Yugo?
Quote from: John_Kunkel on August 12, 2018, 04:34:06 PM
A new Yugo?
Hey John just curious here ?
when was the last time
you personally drove a 1968, '69, or 1970 2nd Gen Charger equipped with the R/T S15 Suspension Pkg intact and in good order on the Highway ?
I mean just say'in...
if we are chipping in with our opinions comparing "old vrs new", it's nice to know what we're comparing to for the experiences related ?
I'll go first,
my earlier posts preferring my original Un-restored '69 Charger R/T SE on the Mountain Hwys at 65-70mph(and it's passing capabilities), are compared to my 2014 Silverado 5.3L, and a 2018 Jeep Renegade North Turbo 4 Banger.
Hands down for that terrain the Charger excels, very tight & quiet to drive, comfy, and handles just "tits" with the aforementioned superior passing lane.
That said,
sitting in traffic, bumper to bumper, parking, wouldn't think of anything but A/C and Superior music of both of the newer units.
Quote from: John_Kunkel on August 12, 2018, 04:34:06 PM
A new Yugo?
No LMBO !!! my car does have a Rack & pinion set up that works AWESOME.
You've got rack and pinion cbr?
What kind? I would like to hear the details on that.
Not all modern (ish) cars have rack and pinion..so a steering box can be made to feel mordern(ish) and handle ok. My Grand Cherokee had a steering box...not that handling really comes in to it in that case but it feels fine. And my wife's 99 SLK 230 also has a steering box...which to be honest I was amazed to find the first time I climbed underneath her! But ultimately an r and p steering system will always have better feel (especially around the centre) than a box..probably the main reason that 99 percent of new cars have them.
As far as the new v old thing....well there is no comparison. Fifty years of developments on cars mean that an old car won't be better to drive (like for like) than any modern equivalent in any measurable way. Just like anything else..time marches on and technology improves. But it's not all about what can be measured....you cant measure that feeling of pride as people stop and point at your classics...especially if you build it up yourself. You cant measure those old car smells and sounds either. So at the end of the day you can't really compare old too new. They both have there advantages....and I want both for that reason.
As for those saying that you might roll back in to someone if you have a four speeder and they park too close...well I had to laugh. Blaming someone else for your lack of clutch control on a hill start! About 75 percent of all cars sold in the UK are manual transmission and is built down South..I don't even think about rolling back in my manual cars (which is all of them since the Jeep went)...old or new cars. In a congested country like mine there will nearly always be someone stopped 6 inches behind you!
Quote from: alfaitalia on August 13, 2018, 10:02:20 AM
Not all modern (ish) cars have rack and pinion..so a steering box can be made to feel mordern(ish) and handle ok. My Grand Cherokee had a steering box...not that handling really comes in to it in that case but it feels fine. And my wife's 99 SLK 230 also has a steering box...which to be honest I was amazed to find the first time I climbed underneath her! But ultimately an r and p steering system will always have better feel (especially around the centre) than a box..probably the main reason that 99 percent of new cars have them.
As far as the new v old thing....well there is no comparison. Fifty years of developments on cars mean that an old car won't be better to drive (like for like) than any modern equivalent in any measurable way. Just like anything else..time marches on and technology improves. But it's not all about what can be measured....you cant measure that feeling of pride as people stop and point at your classics...especially if you build it up yourself. You cant measure those old car smells and sounds either. So at the end of the day you can't really compare old too new. They both have there advantages....and I want both for that reason.
As for those saying that you might roll back in to someone if you have a four speeder and they park too close...well I had to laugh. Blaming someone else for your lack of clutch control on a hill start! About 75 percent of all cars sold in the UK are manual transmission and is built down South..I don't even think about rolling back in my manual cars (which is all of them since the Jeep went)...old or new cars. In a congested country like mine there will nearly always be someone stopped 6 inches behind you!
:lol: Get over yourself there Sterling Moss, glad you are the master of clutch control. We also have congested cities in the US, I was just pointing out that people have no common courtesy when you are driving a classic..
Yeah...fair enough , it did come across a bit aggressive when I re-read it. Sorry!
Well having just returned from a nice road test after having installed or changed out the last few new parts needed I can say I don't think about it. I don't want or need a newer car. :Twocents:
I do about 20,000 miles a year....which is nothing for you guys I'm guessing but higher than the UK average of about 12k. I would not want to be doing that in any of the classics I've previously owned....none of which were US cars by the way. I'd rather do those on my 50 plus to the gallon AC equipped 2.0 170 brake diesel 141,000 mile 2009 Alfa 159. A car with real character and sure to be a future classic.
Quote from: alfaitalia on August 13, 2018, 10:02:20 AM
As for those saying that you might roll back in to someone if you have a four speeder and they park too close...well I had to laugh. Blaming someone else for your lack of clutch control on a hill start!
Haha, no problem here as well but can still be annoying. I like to intentionally roll back a few inches just to freak them out :o
https://vimeo.com/83192473#t=1m30s
Quote from: Challenger340 on August 12, 2018, 04:51:16 PM
Hey John just curious here ?
when was the last time you personally drove a 1968, '69, or 1970 2nd Gen Charger equipped with the R/T S15 Suspension Pkg intact and in good order on the Highway ?
I've had several and, yes, they handle nice compared to a C-barge.
When was the last time you drove a newer LX-body RT or SRT? If you see a comparison, we live on different planets.
Hill starts in San Francisco with a 4speed Charger :eek2:
Throw in a bigger cam and a heavy cluch :eek2: :eek2:
Quote from: John_Kunkel on August 14, 2018, 02:12:07 PM
Quote from: Challenger340 on August 12, 2018, 04:51:16 PM
Hey John just curious here ?
when was the last time you personally drove a 1968, '69, or 1970 2nd Gen Charger equipped with the R/T S15 Suspension Pkg intact and in good order on the Highway ?
I've had several and, yes, they handle nice compared to a C-barge.
When was the last time you drove a newer LX-body RT or SRT? If you see a comparison, we live on different planets.
You didn't answer my question ?
I didn't ask if you had ever
owned or driven one back in 1982 ? I asked, so we may reference comparisons offered....
"when was the last time
you personally drove a 1968, '69, or 1970 2nd Gen Charger equipped with the R/T S15 Suspension Pkg intact and in good repair on the Highway ?"
But to answer
your question, a 2011 SRT8 buddy owns 2 weeks ago for me. Passenger, and the I drove.
NEAT car, and a blast to drive :2thumbs:
But it's a completely
different genre more akin to a video game experience for me compared to my '69 R/T SE ? The drone of the 4 BBL, the exhaust note, and to tell you the honest truth the entire musclecar genre ? Mine's in
REALLY good, solid, No rattles, UN-restored, tight & quiet to drive condition. It's a pleasure to drive and handles just fine on the highway.('60's Mopar steering feel notwithstanding)
And to put it bluntly about the SRT8 ? As Neat as it is....
NOBODY noticed nor
cared as we went by in the SRT8 ? And we probably passed a few others along the way ? and we never noticed them either !
So, your comparison is based on the need to be noticed? Noted.
havent got my charger on the road yet. In meantime bought a 68 beaumont Sd 396.(basically a 68 chevelle ss 396)
It has factory powersteering,manual drum brakes.
Driving down the road im impressed how well the steering is. So much feel of control of the steering. Turns super easy. Easier than the wifes 2012 rav 4 or my old matrix or 2500 ram.
The front suspension is not to stiff not too loose handles corners and bumps great. Has an aftermarket front sway bar seems to really help. The rear has new cargo springs and shocks with oem style shocks. Going over bumps the rear feels kinda all over the place. Need to do something here. MAybe factory control arm bushings are toast or the arms just have give to them.
The brakes. wow we wont talk about those. Lets just say ive gathered almost everything to put on power front disks. Scary stuff lol
My brother has a 71 chevelle wagon with a small block 350. WOW what a ride. Drives better than anything i ever been in. Dont feel any bumps and handles pretty good.
Disclaimer: im talking about driving at 60MPH or less on country roads. Im sure at top end speeds(not in a straight line) id much rather my old foxbody mustang.
Quote from: John_Kunkel on August 15, 2018, 11:46:32 AM
So, your comparison is based on the need to be noticed? Noted.
Nope, but if that's all you got from my post then so be it.
but I did notice,
your sidestepping because you still can't answer the question ?So the truth be known,
1.) you do
NOT currently own a 2nd Charger
2.) you have
NOT owned a 2nd Gen Charger in many decades
3.) you have
NOT driven any 2nd Charger of any kind since 1982,
4.) you
NEVER did drive an S15 Pkg. equipped 2nd Gen Charger even 35 years ago.
Thank You for your opinion on how 2nd Gen Charger's drive compared to your 2008 Charger... Noted
While i cant speak for john, i had a 69 big block 4 speed charger with factory rt suspension and a 2007 rt charger at the same time. Prior to putting frame connectors in the 69, it was a chore to corner with. Wide wide tires on front and rear you could literally feel the car twist in hard aggressive turns on windy back roads at speed. Adding frame connectors was night and day on the same roads. At that point the car was a blast to abuse. You had to work for it as it is obviously all mechanical and thus all driver.
The 07 on the same roads was a different car and different style machine. If you left all the stability control on, a beginner could probably outrun the 69. My 07 was not stock, it was a 12 second car and a head turner everywhere i went. It did corner like it was on rails.
The same roads i had to muscle through in the 69 were taken at higher speeds with 1 hand on the wheel in the 07. They are 2 completely different cars. The way they make power, the way they corner, the way they accerate and brake. They are 2 different machines and rightly so with 50 years between them.
Now, turn all the bells and whistles off in the 07 and you really go for a ride. Its fun with stability on, but when its off, the real fun began. You quickly forgot it had 4 doors and weighed 4500 lbs. You could walk the ass end through turns on command, the nag1 slapping and holding gears, breaking loose on shifts. It started to feel raw like the 69. You had to work for it then. Its alot of car to muscle but man was it fun to drive.
So i guess what im trying to say is i love my 69, i would never give it up for anything. Dodge got it right when they put those cars together. It doesnt take much for them to hug the road and corner like a champ. I drive it everywhere all the time. But 50 years later dodge nailed it with the lx platform. They took a family sedan and gave it teeth. It does everything the 69 does but better. And it should. Its got 50 years of tech in it. I love driving both.
I finally got a chance to sit in my charger today, start her up and just sit in the seat for a good 10 minutes while she was on the hoist, still with no wheels as waiting for new brake parts etc, i can say from driving a modern car to going to my charger, IT FEELS way different, not sure how to explain it, the charger is big, roomy and feels intimidating if that makes sense, just starting her up and sitting inside, feels intimidating, honestly just feels like pure car, no safety hahaha, i love her, but hey this is going from driving a brand new toyota camry to a 68 charger lol.
Both of my 69s now have subframe connectors, 17x8 fronts and big sway bars. Previously Betty had 15x7 fronts.
The ride quality suffered a bit going to 17s but the better handling more than made up for it. Betty has a Firm Feel stage 2 box that doesn't really do anything for me over the stock reman box in Sinnamon. My opinion is that the subframe connectors and a big front sway bar are the keys to a decent handling car... but the 17s really make it shine.
I'm quite satisfied going wherever in either. They fit me well. I'm just not that comfortable going all over because I get panic attacks when around in traffic with them.
But my daily is now my 14 Cherokee Trailhawk - winner hands down for comfort and all. I start it up, set the climate control on 69, put on the XM radio and I'm good to go.
Quote from: jefferson on August 16, 2018, 04:28:40 AM
I finally got a chance to sit in my charger today, start her up and just sit in the seat for a good 10 minutes while she was on the hoist, still with no wheels as waiting for new brake parts etc, i can say from driving a modern car to going to my charger, IT FEELS way different, not sure how to explain it, the charger is big, roomy and feels intimidating if that makes sense, just starting her up and sitting inside, feels intimidating, honestly just feels like pure car, no safety hahaha, i love her, but hey this is going from driving a brand new toyota camry to a 68 charger lol.
When I started this thread, I thought I would get a lot of discussion about handling and reliability and that happened. That is part of the experience but I was looking for something else. Jefferson nailed it for me. Maybe I should call it attitude or expectations or something. :shruggy: Still looking forward to the day I can take my car on the road for the first time in ten years, then I'll have something to compare. Anyway, still an interesting discussion and thanks to all for chiming in. One thing that came out was the wide range of cars you folks own. Lot's of folks mix it up pretty radically and still like both modern and vintage.
Quote from: green69rt on August 16, 2018, 08:32:20 AM
Quote from: jefferson on August 16, 2018, 04:28:40 AM
I finally got a chance to sit in my charger today, start her up and just sit in the seat for a good 10 minutes while she was on the hoist, still with no wheels as waiting for new brake parts etc, i can say from driving a modern car to going to my charger, IT FEELS way different, not sure how to explain it, the charger is big, roomy and feels intimidating if that makes sense, just starting her up and sitting inside, feels intimidating, honestly just feels like pure car, no safety hahaha, i love her, but hey this is going from driving a brand new toyota camry to a 68 charger lol.
When I started this thread, I thought I would get a lot of discussion about handling and reliability and that happened. That is part of the experience but I was looking for something else. Jefferson nailed it for me. Maybe I should call it attitude or expectations or something. :shruggy: Still looking forward to the day I can take my car on the road for the first time in ten years, then I'll have something to compare. Anyway, still an interesting discussion and thanks to all for chiming in. One thing that came out was the wide range of cars you folks own. Lot's of folks mix it up pretty radically and still like both modern and vintage.
Well my 69 is leaning towards the radical side for most but i still drive it all the time. To make it a true "daily driver" i would have to change alot and i like it the way it is. Slicks, 4.88s and 750 lb spring pressures dont go well with highway driving around here. Other then that its comfortable to drive. Ac would be a nice touch but i dont want the extra weight or hp loss. Thats what my actual daily driver is for. A 2006 2500 chevy.
Quote from: Challenger340 on August 15, 2018, 08:38:34 PM
your sidestepping because you still can't answer the question ?
No, I just like to mess with anal, uptight people.
You're absolutely right, I haven't driven a 2nd Gen Charger in many years; I also haven't flown a Piper Tri-Pacer for many years but I still remember enough of its characteristics to make an unbiased comparison to more modern platforms that handle better.
The subject of the OP is "do you ever think of the difference?" and, yes, I do. While I enjoy driving both, I would never try to represent old as being equal/superior to new (as some here have tried to do). If I had both sitting side by side and wanted to do some canyon carving, I'd leave the old at home. However, if I wanted to "just drive" for the hell of it or hang with birds of a feather, it would be the old.
As much as I like my 2012 R/T Challenger Classic. I would never sell my classics to buy a newer car. I still enjoy driving my 70' Charger as much as I do. Although, I may be one of the luckier ones. It is an R/T S.E. loaded with options like A/C, cruise, power windows, power disc brakes, power steering, etc. So, it has almost all of the creature comforts of the newer Challenger but definitely does not get the mileage. LOL.
Quote from: John_Kunkel on August 16, 2018, 12:03:45 PM
Quote from: Challenger340 on August 15, 2018, 08:38:34 PM
your sidestepping because you still can't answer the question ?
No, I just like to mess with anal, uptight people.
Yeah, "takes one to know one" you anal retentive uptight old fart !
Okay children, school is out.
Wow...A disagreement and I'm not even involved in it.
:lol:
Wasn't even about politics either. :slap:
Quote from: JB400 on August 17, 2018, 11:35:36 PM
Wasn't even about politics either. :slap:
You've got it mixed up, that's another forum. :nono:
Quote from: Lennard on August 18, 2018, 12:25:40 AM
Quote from: JB400 on August 17, 2018, 11:35:36 PM
Wasn't even about politics either. :slap:
You've got it mixed up, that's another forum. :nono:
My point exactly. It's not necessary to have political discussions to have disagreements.
And yes, that is another forum, and it's a mess. However, got to give them the fact that they're trying to clean it up.
So if i put a throttle body injection on a 2nd gen, will that meet your standards john? :poke: :stirthepot:
"Standards" aren't the issue, reality versus fantasy is.
Funny thread. I own a survivor 69 Charger (383/727), a 2008 Charger SRT8 (auto trans), and a 2010 Challenger SRT (6 speed manual).
You CANNOT deny that the Charger's appeal is in a league of it's own. The body lines are just one of a kind. The torsion bar suspension is comfortable, but the suspension and steering in my SRT8s is so much tighter and responsive. The 6 speed manual is tight and an absolute joy; It is way more fun then a 4 speed. Every stop sign and on ramp is my playground. Since I've owned and driven both, I am now building several classic Mopars with 6.1L hemi engines and modern suspension. Best of both worlds in my opinion!
A late model powertrain and improved stock based suspension is a great way to get the advantages of both. I love the rumble of a classic V8 though. I have never heard a late model 5.7 or bigger HEMI lope or cackle.
Quote from: Kern Dog on August 18, 2018, 03:28:36 PM
A late model powertrain and improved stock based suspension is a great way to get the advantages of both. I love the rumble of a classic V8 though. I have never heard a late model 5.7 or bigger HEMI lope or cackle.
In stock form, I could see that but I've got a couple 6.1L engines that sound beautiful. They just need a cam, longtube headers, and a good catback exhaust system (I am partial to Magnaflow) to wake up the sound.
The grind of the cam and lack of vvt can really make or break the sound of a modern hemi
I agree that it is possible, I have just never heard one that rumbled like a 440.
Quote from: Kern Dog on August 18, 2018, 06:39:25 PM
I agree that it is possible, I have just never heard one that rumbled like a 440.
You need to go to an nhra division race...
https://youtu.be/WdqcTZlKACM
By the time you get a modern motor to rumble like an old one, it will probably be gas-guzzling and uncivilized like the old one too.
If you ignore the fact that old cars don't drive well and anything can explode/stop working at the blink of an eye while on the road... well then they are not much different.
Quote from: G-man on August 19, 2018, 03:48:09 AM
If you ignore the fact that old cars don't drive well and anything can explode/stop working at the blink of an eye while on the road... well then they are not much different.
lol this
Funny, mum said to me the other day while sitting in the charger together, your going to need to take a mechanic with you everytime you drive this. hahaha so true, when you hear the engine rumbling theres always that little bit of oh jees am im going to break down on the side of the road today or is the car going to even start today. Especially being a 50 year old car.
I've driven nothing but old 70's cars daily and have only been stuck maybe two or three times. The only one requiring a tow was when I blew up the pump in my C6 trans. Fuel economy is my only complaint due to the price of fuel today.
Older cars have character and are less "numb"
You drive them, they don't drive you...
Quote from: 440 on August 19, 2018, 08:16:19 AM
I've driven nothing but old 70's cars daily and have only been stuck maybe two or three times. The only one requiring a tow was when I blew up the pump in my C6 trans. Fuel economy is my only complaint due to the price of fuel today.
Older cars have character and are less "numb"
You drive them, they don't drive you...
LOL!... You do realise that you have about the cheapest fuel in the Western developed World right!!!? Over here in the UK its £5.90 per UK gallon for petrol (gas!) today.....so that's about $7.55 at todays rate....and even converting to your smaller US gallon it works out at about $6.29 per gallon. Live with those prices before you complain about fuel prices. A while back there was a big spike in price and we has to live with near $10 per UK gallon for a while.....luckily that did not last long!! Combine that with the cars like the 68-70 Charger costing half as much again due to rarity and parts being two or three times the cost.....and you guys really have nothing to complain about.....car wise at least!!
Quote from: alfaitalia on August 19, 2018, 09:04:47 AM
Quote from: 440 on August 19, 2018, 08:16:19 AM
I've driven nothing but old 70's cars daily and have only been stuck maybe two or three times. The only one requiring a tow was when I blew up the pump in my C6 trans. Fuel economy is my only complaint due to the price of fuel today.
Older cars have character and are less "numb"
You drive them, they don't drive you...
LOL!... You do realise that you have about the cheapest fuel in the Western developed World right!!!? Over here in the UK its £5.90 per UK gallon for petrol (gas!) today.....so that's about $7.55 at todays rate....and even converting to your smaller US gallon it works out at about $6.29 per gallon. Live with those prices before you complain about fuel prices. A while back there was a big spike in price and we has to live with near $10 per UK gallon for a while.....luckily that did not last long!! Combine that with the cars like the 68-70 Charger costing half as much again due to rarity and parts being two or three times the cost.....and you guys really have nothing to complain about.....car wise at least!!
Fuel here in Aus isn't cheap, it is $1.59 a liter at the moment which is about $5.88 a gallon. My mild 302 on the open road with 2.92 gears averaged 27L/100k.
When I lived in California I used to complain about the fuel prices too, but having moved here I realize in hindsight I had nothing to complain about. I remember visiting my grandfather in Alabama and being surprised fuel was only $.99 a gallon.
At the moment I burn through about $60 - $70 a week in gasoline :rotz:
Well since you asked, my new 2013 Challenger, absolutely rides like a dream. Best handling and driving car I've owned in my entire life. And it's been trouble free.
My 1970 Charger is fun for a Sunday afternoon Drive. Loud and cantankerous but loads of fun.
QuoteLOL!... You do realise that you have about the cheapest fuel in the Western developed World right!!!? Over here in the UK its £5.90 per UK gallon for petrol (gas!) today.....so that's about $7.55 at todays rate....and even converting to your smaller US gallon it works out at about $6.29 per gallon. Live with those prices before you complain about fuel prices. A while back there was a big spike in price and we has to live with near $10 per UK gallon for a while.....luckily that did not last long!! Combine that with the cars like the 68-70 Charger costing half as much again due to rarity and parts being two or three times the cost.....and you guys really have nothing to complain about.....car wise at least!!
I agree about US gas prices.
On the other hand, try living in most areas of the USA without a car. Gas here is cheap because the other options aren't practical/available for most people.
It's not so much that...there are politics involved. You have higher reserves, better access to other reserves due to trade agreements and don't mind starting wars to keep it that way. The base price of the fuel in the UK is not that far from you....but the tax here is massive....not just to discourage its use for environmental reasons (which it does....just look at the number of small cars here) but also because we pay the full cost of motoring here. Over there the taxes drivers pay don't cover the real cost of motoring (building and repairing roads and bridges etc) whereas over here it easily covers is with some left over to go towards our health service etc. Different strokes etc.....
...anyway ball on topic!
Quote from: alfaitalia on August 25, 2018, 02:12:20 AM
It's not so much that...there are politics involved. You have higher reserves, better access to other reserves due to trade agreements and don't mind starting wars to keep it that way. The base price of the fuel in the UK is not that far from you....but the tax here is massive....not just to discourage its use for environmental reasons (which it does....just look at the number of small cars here) but also because we pay the full cost of motoring here. Over there the taxes drivers pay don't cover the real cost of motoring (building and repairing roads and bridges etc) whereas over here it easily covers is with some left over to go towards our health service etc. Different strokes etc.....
...anyway ball on topic!
::) Your ignorance is showing... again.
I think that's all pretty factual as far as I could research.....what parts do you disagree with.....out of interest? Just because you are in the states it does not make your "opinions" any more valid than mine as much as you seem to think it does!! The costs of driving part was got from a US gov website stating that's drivers paid about 20% of the total roads bill with the rest coming from general taxation. The war part from another US site where in a survey 65% of Americans believed that fuel was the "main reason" for the war as there were no WMDs (as both our Governments new all along!). And we (in the UK) do pay a fortune for our driving.....not just fuel but insurance, road tax and the cars themselves. Not trying to start a political argument....just trying to say why driving is so much cheaper over there.:shruggy:
Because of you cheap fuel people have, on average, bought far bigger engines over there (you might be on the road all day here and not see a V8)......I imagine that if you suddenly had a fuel price increase to Euro type prices you would suddenly have lots of worthless cars that no one wants or could afford to run....like we did over here after the fuel crisis in the 70s when big engines went.....never to return! That of course would be a massive problem for your country folk in such a massive country. So it would be political suicide for any leader brave enough to make that decision in the US as much as the rest of the world might like you to for "environmental reasons!"! Small engines over here now are more driven by the green lobby...even if you can afford the fuel the road tax will cripple you. Having a son these days and wanting to have habitable planet to leave him I can see the good and bad in that. MY engine has just been dynoed at 1123 horses......so it would be hypocritical of me to say small cars will save the earth even if my DD is a 2.0 diesel Alfa.....but I might do 2000 miles a year in the Charger so that's OK!!
Quote from: Lennard on August 25, 2018, 05:40:27 AM
Quote from: alfaitalia on August 25, 2018, 02:12:20 AM
It's not so much that...there are politics involved. You have higher reserves, better access to other reserves due to trade agreements and don't mind starting wars to keep it that way. The base price of the fuel in the UK is not that far from you....but the tax here is massive....not just to discourage its use for environmental reasons (which it does....just look at the number of small cars here) but also because we pay the full cost of motoring here. Over there the taxes drivers pay don't cover the real cost of motoring (building and repairing roads and bridges etc) whereas over here it easily covers is with some left over to go towards our health service etc. Different strokes etc.....
...anyway ball on topic!
::) Your ignorance is showing... again.
again & again & again , think I'll go start a war LMBO :slap:
Ok....you guys just win.....im just an ignorant Brit who knows nothing!! Its the American way and point of view or don't bother on this forum! (apart from the few supporting emails I get from people who don't want there views shot down by their fellow country men every time I mention guns or politics!!!).......enjoy life gents......and your new President.....due anytime now I would guess!! Maybe you will find one that's not a racist, sexist, bigoted liar next time!!! LOL. Over and out!!
We really should get back on topic before this thread gets locked..........................
Quote from: alfaitalia on August 25, 2018, 10:14:52 AM
Ok....you guys just win.....im just an ignorant Brit who knows nothing!! Its the American way and point of view or don't bother on this forum! (apart from the few supporting emails I get from people who don't want there views shot down by their fellow country men every time I mention guns or politics!!!).......enjoy life gents......and your new President.....due anytime now I would guess!! Maybe you will find one that's not a racist, sexist, bigoted liar next time!!! LOL. Over and out!!
We really should get back on topic before this thread gets locked..........................
Thanks for proving my point... again. :thumbs:
QuoteThanks for proving my point... again. thumbs
Unpopular opinions are not proof of ignorance.
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on August 25, 2018, 04:43:27 PM
QuoteThanks for proving my point... again. thumbs
Unpopular opinions are not proof of ignorance.
That's just your opinion.
He talks shit about the USA every chance he gets. This is a USA based forum about a USA built car and with 99.9% USA based members.
Love it, keep your degrading comments for yourself... or leave it.
If I would talk shit about that 137 year old woman that's ruling his country on the United Kingdom based Mopar Muscle Association forum, I would get banned for life in a split second.
Did you read that post before you published it!!? What a load of crap. I don't talk shit about the USA and have no problem with your country ......what you don't like is others disagreeing with YOUR opinion of the USA.....lots of other member don't agree with you either......I've have a few emails to prove it!!. And no you would not get banned from MMA....we have proper freedom of speech over here where everyone or every religion/colour/belief can have there own say....we might not agree....but don't call them ignorant!! Oh and by the way brains our "137 year old woman" PM is actually 11 years YOUNGER than Trump 61 against 72. :nana: And she's doesn't rule our country she governs it....the Queen rules and has final says on our laws.....even if its just a symbolic position these days.
How about arguing like a grown up by putting down facts and opinions based on research and reasoning rather that just name calling like a 9 year old.. Anyway I really am done now. Can we get back on topic....please!
QuoteIf I would talk shit about that 137 year old woman that's ruling his country on the United Kingdom based Mopar Muscle Association forum, I would get banned for life in a split second.
Would you?
It's possible but I wouldn't assume it. A number of people would come down on both sides of that question.
My '70 Charger is like a Roller Coaster ride compared to my other vehicles. One small and fast is a '12 rice burner, one lumbering and heavy is a '06 F250 service body and the last is a slow and surefooted '74 CJ-5 goes by the name of Pack Mule. I have never driven a '18 model year vehicle yet. If I had to be in an accident, I'd want to be in the F250. If I'd want to go fast and quickly move though traffic it would be the Ricer. If I'd want to cross the country on unpaved roads rocks/water/dirt it would be the CJ. If I wanted to arrive deaf and when I exited the vehicle and still feel like I'm vibrating, that would be the Charger. With a new car I'd be thinking, I'm sitting in my living room. With our '70's era cars (un-modified/factory built for handling) you have to drive the creatures. I wonder if the 18 year old drivers of today really could handle the ''classic muscle car'' as they are called today and drive them like some of us did back then...and survive? I know I could not drive a new car today like I drove in the late '70's. The reflex's isn't what they use to be, and the times and people have changed out on the roads.
Edit; It's the eyes and ears not what they use to be, the reflex are still good.
I'm not on Fbbo. I'm not on Fbbo. I'm not on Fbbo.
Who cares if this websites based in USA, terrorists are as well. :slap:
But back on topic, if you think things through... you spend $30,000+ on a Dodge Charger to get what?
A car, thats possibly got rust in it, that does not handle, that can stop working on you any time without warning.
On the other hand, the same $30,000+ can buy you a very nice 4x4. No rust, reliable, will last you for 20+ years without any drama (200,000+ Miles) and on top of that, you can go off-roading, travel the country and do everything the charger can't.
Makes you wonder what justification can even be employed to purchasing a charger for these exorbitant prices. You pay through the nose to get a car with problems :icon_smile_dissapprove:
Only thing the charger has going for it is the fact it looks awesome and thats the only reason you wan't it... just like a hot looking chick, unreliable and gonna cost.
My 70 looked pretty crappy after 8 years of drag racing 23 years ago but I bought it anyway. Patched and repaired as needed it worked as my "construction truck" for about 7 years when the 440 gave up. Stored away while my 3 kids and I carried on after the divorce it was never allowed to degrade. When my son started collage the 440 was overhauled and the car back on the road so I could give my son the family beater.
B Body cars are as tough as any truck made and infinitely repairable. I call you out on "may stop working at any time"....that is shade on you not the car. My Charger is and has been my main ride. Built as a car not a racer it's reliable, comfortable and safe. :2thumbs:
Quote from: G-man on August 27, 2018, 05:34:52 AM
Who cares if this websites based in USA, terrorists are as well. :slap:But back on topic, if you think things through... you spend $30,000+ on a Dodge Charger to get what?
A car, thats possibly got rust in it, that does not handle, that can stop working on you any time without warning.
On the other hand, the same $30,000+ can buy you a very nice 4x4. No rust, reliable, will last you for 20+ years without any drama (200,000+ Miles) and on top of that, you can go off-roading, travel the country and do everything the charger can't.
Makes you wonder what justification can even be employed to purchasing a charger for these exorbitant prices. You pay through the nose to get a car with problems :icon_smile_dissapprove:
Only thing the charger has going for it is the fact it looks awesome and thats the only reason you wan't it... just like a hot looking chick, unreliable and gonna cost.
For once, I'm at a loss for words. Did you compose that in the throes of a wet dream?
So..... to recap after reviewing all the posts on this thread, a lot of classic Charger owners are just in it for either (a) an investment, or (b) suffer from small penis syndrome, and do not enjoy driving their classic Charger??????
Quote from: GreenMachine on August 30, 2018, 12:11:17 PM
So..... to recap after reviewing all the posts on this thread, a lot of classic Charger owners ...... suffer from small penis syndrome.......
My mom always said that I was a good size for a boy my age.
To try to answer the question, sure the Charger is noisier, less comfortable and way less fuel efficient than my modern (and 4 drums vs 4 discs), but I think the major difference is that the steering wheel is on the other side of the car and that is the greater challenge :)
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on August 11, 2018, 06:07:40 PM
QuoteThe biggest comparison I make when I drive my car now is, I REALLY miss rack and pinion steering, like almost any other late model car has.
I've done a ton of suspension and chassis updates, and don't really miss anything there, but 50 year old steering boxes absolutely suck.
Mine is in good condition with no leaks or anything, I accept that's just how they were, but it's the worst part of driving a vintage Mopar to me. By far.
I may upgrade to a borgenson one day, but the reliability of them seems to be lacking. I would love a bolt on rack and pinion upgrade, but it seems like the only aftermarket attempt at one was terrible.
I really don't have any other complaints driving it vs. new cars though. Except for the no overdrive thing.
Have you added a few degrees of front end caster (aftermarket UCAs or offset bushings) in the alignment?
That is what makes the steering pull itself back to center when you let go of the wheel while you're rolling. It's not the steering gearbox itself.
:2thumbs: Mike DC is exactly right about the caster. Max it and make sure it is exactly the same left and right and you won't even be able to tell if there is any play. :rofl: