DodgeCharger.com Forum

Mopar Garage => Engine, Transmission, Rearend, & Exhaust => Topic started by: AKcharger on October 09, 2012, 06:26:09 PM

Title: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: AKcharger on October 09, 2012, 06:26:09 PM
Here's some info on converting an auto to 4 speed.  My car is completely different with the 4 speed, best thing I've done to the car... I love it!!  

TIME- Total time is about 20 hours of work for two competent mopar people. With my pal Stan, whose's done a few conversions before, and myself it took 13 hours of straight work from the time we rolled it into the garage until it rolled out under its own power, although with much work left to do. Add in another 7-8 hours to weld in hump, install carpet and do some other stuff.

COST- $2600.  Used trans, bell housing, peddles, linkage and new pistol grip shifter $1200. New flywheel, clutch assay, tunnel and multiple small parts $1000. Used 4 speed console $300, oil, paint, misc stuff $100.


1) Ok, need to gut the interior, that's the easy part
2)  Pull auto trans...good riddance! Then cut hole and trim the console bracket
3) Install bellhousing and do run-out check! That is use off-set dowels to ensure bellhousing is aligned with crank. I didn't know this when I did this in high school, maybe that's why my car shifted so bad?
4) Clutch bar bracket is welded in (no picture) and install clutch assy
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: AKcharger on October 09, 2012, 06:27:33 PM
5) Installation of pedals, wasn't too bad but I had 66 charger pedals and i thought they should have been the same as '70...a B-body is a B-body right? Not really. Seems '69-'70 pedals have an additional bracket to secure the steering colum to the dash. The good news is all I had to do was remove the bracket holding the clutch pedal from my '66 set up (the nice blacked painted one one the right) and bolt it to my auto pedals. So lesson is the pedal frames for auto/manual is the same. Oh, don't forget that little stiffener plate that goes on the firewall.
6) Trans installation pretty straight forward except for the rear cross member. Now the cross members are different BUT you can do some cutting and save yourself $100.  Take a look at the pictures, you can see the manual cross member on the bottom/left and my automatic cross member on the top/right...clearly different. But simply cut out the center and the mount drops right in! Oh, make sure shifter is rigged properly when trans is out, easier than laying on your back!
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: AKcharger on October 09, 2012, 06:28:19 PM
7) As for the interior;  if you already have a console YOU DO NOT NEED TO BUY A NEW ONE all you need is to cut out the spot for the shifter and drill holes for the different trim. I thought they were different so I bought another one. I  could have just got the one trim piece and that side cover. Same for carpet, i bought a new 4 speed carpet instead of using my old one. Yes the  4 speed carpet does have the hump molded in but under the console you cant see it, I could have save some more money reusing my auto carpet. One neat trick for carpet...my pal uses a soldering iron to mark the seat belt and seat mount holes, makes nice big easily distinguished holes and cauterizes the carpet,   i thought that was brilliant. Oh, if you want to save another $500 make your own 4speed top you can do this:  http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,10086.0.html

All-in-all it went very well. We did have a few bumps but all were minor.  Again, I'm ecstatic, I love it.

Questions?
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: tan top on October 09, 2012, 06:43:05 PM
 been busy Dude  :2thumbs:
   sort of thinking about  swapping to  4  speed my self , one day  :scratchchin:
thanks for sharing the pictures !! good wright up  ,
good stuff  :drive:
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: oldschool on October 09, 2012, 07:58:07 PM
nice work... on a different note, i love that burnt orange interior  :2thumbs:.
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: 69rtse4spd on October 09, 2012, 08:23:37 PM
Nice job & thanks for posting & the helpful tips. :2thumbs:.
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: 1970Moparmann on October 09, 2012, 08:50:22 PM
Great write up.  Thanks for sharing.  :2thumbs:
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: Chryco Psycho on October 09, 2012, 11:54:37 PM
I have too many of these swaps , it sure makes for a whole different car when it is done !!
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: Dino on October 10, 2012, 07:18:09 AM
Very nice!

So I guess you need the hump if you're using an original 4 speed? 
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: AKcharger on October 10, 2012, 10:11:36 AM
Correct Dino. While the new 5 speeds are top loaders and will be centered in the hump, the A-833 is a side loader. You can see from the below picture the hump is a must.

Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: Dino on October 10, 2012, 11:04:43 AM
Quote from: AKcharger on October 10, 2012, 10:11:36 AM
Correct Dino. While the new 5 speeds are top loaders and will be centered in the hump, the A-833 is a side loader. You can see from the below picture the hump is a must.

(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p201/AKcharger_photos/70%20Charger/2012-10-06120640.jpg)

That's good to know that I would have to cut the console to make it fit.  Great write up by the way.  I would tackle this myself if I had a lift and someone beside me who knew about this stuff.
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: Cooter on October 10, 2012, 11:51:45 AM
This should be a damn sticky. Good freakin' write up! Even had the "Conversion" on the crossmember and the fact that the pedal cages are the same. I NEVER swap the cages, just the longer bolt and pedals.


Again, awesome write up!
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: Chryco Psycho on October 10, 2012, 06:47:53 PM
Done  :2thumbs:
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: moparstuart on October 11, 2012, 12:12:10 PM
 Thanks for the info  great tips and on a budget just my style
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: AKcharger on October 12, 2012, 09:30:11 AM
Best money and time I've ever spent!
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: 1BAD68 on October 12, 2012, 09:58:34 AM
Awesome thread. I always thought about doing this just for the "FUN" factor but thought it would be too involved.
Now I'm really considering it.
Thanks   :cheers:
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: AKcharger on October 15, 2012, 01:02:52 PM
Here's a parts list to do the conversion. It is lenghy but completly broken down. Often times these parts will come as a kit. DON"T BE INTIMIDATED...ITS WORTH IT!!


Clutch
- Bellhousing
- Offset dowels for bellhousing alignment, usually  0.007
- Pilot bushing for end of crank
- Clutch Assy (usually comes as set with pack and throw out bearing)
- Clutch fork
- Clutch fork boot
- Bellhousing fork pivot
- Torque shaft (Z-bar)
- Torque shaft service kit
- Flywheel w/bolts
- Clutch adjusting rod assembly (Rod, nuts, clips, grommet and spring)
- Steel dust cover with bolts
- Fork Spring

Transmission
- Transmission w/B-body tailshaft
- Shifter with rods, clips, etc.
- Shifter handle
- Transmission mount

Console/interior
- 4 speed console or modify your current automatic console
- Console plastic/fiberglass side cover
- 4 speed side cover console chrome trim
- Console 4 speed top cover
- Console shifter boot
- Console decals
- Carpet
- Console carpet
- Clutch rod Boot
- 'Lil "reverse" light on dash if you want to be authentic

Structural
- Clutch pedal assembly
- Clutch Pedal firewall stiffener bracket (goes through firewall)
- Rubber pads for pedal faces
- Floor tunnel  (weld in)
- Frame ballstud bracket (weld in)
- Torque Shaft ball stud and nut
- Lower Shifter boot

Consumables to Purchase
- Interior Paint
- Plastic Adhesion Promoter
- Plastic repair kit (if using an old console...trust me it's cracked somewhere)
- Semi-gloss black paint
- 3M spray adhesive
-0000 steel wool
- Simple Green
- Masking tape
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: Rolling_Thunder on October 24, 2012, 11:28:17 PM
To add to the list above 

You forgot to mention the Clutch Pedal Pushrod    :2thumbs:


Also - if converting from a column shift auto to a 4-speed you will need different steering column collar pieces.


Also would like to mention if you are converting a 904 automatic to 4-speed you will need to shorten your driveshaft ~2"

I plan on swapping my 68 Satellite convertible to a 4-speed as well...   non console.   
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: hemi68charger on November 27, 2012, 04:40:40 PM
Great write up Chief.......
Maybe I'll do this if I keep my 500... Well, I WILL if I keep the 500.. I have all the necessary items for the conversion... '69-style........
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: AKcharger on December 01, 2012, 02:07:46 AM
Quote from: hemi68charger on November 27, 2012, 04:40:40 PM
Great write up Chief.......
Maybe I'll do this if I keep my 500... Well, I WILL if I keep the 500.. I have all the necessary items for the conversion... '69-style........
You'll LOVE it!
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: Finn on December 06, 2012, 04:58:54 AM
Great write up, a manual is on my "eventually" list.  :cheers:
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: Lighthorseman on January 21, 2013, 06:27:01 AM

I hope to undertake this project over the winter, and this will be invaluble information.   :2thumbs:

One quick question - will the existing driveshaft from my 383 column shift work with a 440 - 833 combo, or will I have to have it modified?

 
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: tallhair on January 21, 2013, 07:42:46 AM
Quote from: AKcharger on October 09, 2012, 06:28:19 PM

All-in-all it went very well. We did have a few bumps but all were minor.  Again, I'm ecstatic, I love it.

thanks!  excellent pictures
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: Cooter on January 21, 2013, 07:46:04 AM
Quote from: Lighthorseman on January 21, 2013, 06:27:01 AM


One quick question - will the existing driveshaft from my 383 column shift work with a 440 - 833 combo, or will I have to have it modified?

 

In theory it SHOULD....I know the splines in a 727 and A833 are the same. Lengths should be the same as well, or VERY close to it.
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: Lighthorseman on January 22, 2013, 01:24:27 AM

Thanks, Cooter!   :2thumbs:
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: hemi68charger on January 22, 2013, 08:44:26 AM
Quote from: AKcharger on December 01, 2012, 02:07:46 AM
Quote from: hemi68charger on November 27, 2012, 04:40:40 PM
Great write up Chief.......
Maybe I'll do this if I keep my 500... Well, I WILL if I keep the 500.. I have all the necessary items for the conversion... '69-style........
You'll LOVE it!

Oh yeah.... My former 500 was a 4speed car and it was so much fun........   :2thumbs:
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: GPULLER on January 22, 2013, 11:20:57 AM
What about a pilot bushing?  Read somewhere about some sort of conversion bushing for cranks that aren't drilled for them.  Anybody know anything about that?
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: Cooter on January 22, 2013, 12:06:42 PM
Quote from: GPULLER on January 22, 2013, 11:20:57 AM
What about a pilot bushing?  Read somewhere about some sort of conversion bushing for cranks that aren't drilled for them.  Anybody know anything about that?

Yes, there is some talk about using a later model "Dakota" truck pilot bearing. However, you must modify the input of your trans by cutting off the excess length and I personally don't like doing that, but it works. The bearing drives into the converter register instead of the original hole that isn't there.
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: moparstuart on January 22, 2013, 01:22:44 PM
Quote from: Cooter on January 22, 2013, 12:06:42 PM
Quote from: GPULLER on January 22, 2013, 11:20:57 AM
What about a pilot bushing?  Read somewhere about some sort of conversion bushing for cranks that aren't drilled for them.  Anybody know anything about that?

Yes, there is some talk about using a later model "Dakota" truck pilot bearing. However, you must modify the input of your trans by cutting off the excess length and I personally don't like doing that, but it works. The bearing drives into the converter register instead of the original hole that isn't there.
Dakota roller bearing just used it on my  viper tranny install  , but my crank was already drilled for a manual tranny so no drilling of crank or cutting of the tranny shaft 
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: AKcharger on January 22, 2013, 04:21:25 PM
Quote from: Lighthorseman on January 21, 2013, 06:27:01 AM


One quick question - will the existing driveshaft from my 383 column shift work with a 440 - 833 combo, or will I have to have it modified?

 

Nope, it's the same 100%. Column shift or console makes no difference. Only thing you'll find weird sometimes is if you swap out the rear end chunk, you'll find big yokes and small yokes.  But still not an issue, just have to get a diffrent u- joint that fits both. I ran into that when I swapped my center section last time.
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: AKcharger on January 22, 2013, 04:27:26 PM
I ran into the crank problem...failed to mention that. It's a '67 steel crank and I understood all steel cranks were fine for manuals, but still the input shaft was too long. We simply hacked off about 3/8 from the input shaft with a sawzall®, beveled the edges a bit  and it fit fine with no issues. Don't recall if we used a special pilot bushing. as you can see the missing 3/8 is hardly noticeable


Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: rick on February 17, 2013, 09:50:02 PM
I am planning to do this on my 69 charger pulling out the 383 and 727 and putting in  a 426 4 speed I'm in ne, where r u I'm might need some help going to do it next winter
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: Troy on February 17, 2013, 10:17:20 PM
Quote from: rick on February 17, 2013, 09:50:02 PM
I am planning to do this on my 69 charger pulling out the 383 and 727 and putting in  a 426 4 speed I'm in ne, where r u I'm might need some help going to do it next winter
AK is in AK (Alaska). :)

Troy
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: AKcharger on February 19, 2013, 12:33:35 AM
Yeah, lol, Troy is correct. So either move up here to Alaska or Im always available her to help :-)
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: moparstuart on February 19, 2013, 09:21:55 AM
Quote from: rick on February 17, 2013, 09:50:02 PM
I am planning to do this on my 69 charger pulling out the 383 and 727 and putting in  a 426 4 speed I'm in ne, where r u I'm might need some help going to do it next winter
if your going to a hemi , you might consider doing a tremec 5 speed manual as you dont have to add the tranny hump and just cut one hole for the top loader shifter to come through . You can still use most of the other stock 4 speed stuff or upgrade to a hydrolic clutch also .  With the 5 speed its just for the most part a bolt in deal .
:Twocents:
   
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: mikeydf14 on February 20, 2013, 07:50:58 AM
Well Bill she sure looks different from the last time I saw it about 6 years ago.  The pics look like it was done while you still lived in Hampton right?  I found a pic of our Chargers together at Langley, AFB after we did two laps around the track.  Had a fun time that day.  Great job on the conversion.  I am ambitious but not that ambitious!!! 
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: mikeydf14 on February 20, 2013, 07:54:42 AM
Looks like you replaced your carpet too. That's next on my car. Maybe start that effort sometime next week. First time for everything!
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: darkside on February 22, 2013, 04:43:21 PM
Do you have any pics of the clutch rod and  zbar bell crank  mounted on car?I'll be doing the swap this year and need to see were to install rod and z bar  crank on frame  ,already have motor and trans out of car.thanks
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: AKcharger on February 22, 2013, 05:34:38 PM
Here ya' go Darkside, I swipped this pics from some other posts. Thing to keep in mind is ALL cars have the cut-out for the z-bar bolt access but not the bracket. Simply make sure the bracket is aligned with the hole. Having the engine out should make a lot of the process go very smooth!
I'm heading back down to do more work on the car in April, so if you need any specific pics let me know & I'll be sure to get them for you

(http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=88025.0;attach=167001;image)
(http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=88025.0;attach=167002;image)
(http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/3237/2569/33091284020_large.jpg)
(http://www.drivinithome.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/3/files/2012/02/clutch.jpg)
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: darkside on February 22, 2013, 09:24:57 PM
thanks!
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: fizz on March 08, 2013, 04:08:50 PM
So, I just got done marking out for the 4 speed hump and noticed the rear of the hump is over the support brace/hat channel that goes accross the floor and up andthrough the tunnel. When I cut the floor out it will expose this support in the rear of the hole, as shown in the pictures of this thread. How is this finished, or is the top of the hat channel left open in the hole?
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: Troy on March 09, 2013, 10:38:04 AM
Quote from: fizz on March 08, 2013, 04:08:50 PM
So, I just got done marking out for the 4 speed hump and noticed the rear of the hump is over the support brace/hat channel that goes accross the floor and up andthrough the tunnel. When I cut the floor out it will expose this support in the rear of the hole, as shown in the pictures of this thread. How is this finished, or is the top of the hat channel left open in the hole?
You don't cut or expose the support. Here's a picture of mine. The shiny areas (and the black magic marker line if you can see it) are where the "hump" sits and will be welded.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v375/switchstancebrdr/BronzeCharger/DSC02379.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v375/switchstancebrdr/BronzeCharger/DSC02380.jpg)

Troy
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: fizz on March 09, 2013, 01:27:40 PM
Thanks, so there is a cavity above the support inside the hump, obviously
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: AKcharger on March 09, 2013, 02:04:00 PM
Correct Fizz, if you use the hump as a templet that support will be exposed but will be covered when the hump is welded on so it's a non-issue. Troy made a more Conservative cut so his looks neater than mine. Either way you go you'll be fine
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: chargercrazed on April 01, 2013, 11:15:10 AM
AKcharger, Interior looks great. What paint did you use for the console? I have been unable to find a good burnt orange console probably will have to dye a different colored one.
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: AKcharger on April 02, 2013, 09:00:18 PM
Hi Crazed

I went to a local paint shop and had them mix some SEM interior paint it for me...THIS IS THE WAY TO GO. Any reputable paint shop will be able to match your existing color. I had a place called "Hopps" in Hampton VA matched the B/O you see here and the Bright Blue metallic for my '72 and it was spot on. You do not need a "Dye" simple clean console, spray on plastic adhesion promotor and you're all set!

As far as commercial sources like MOpaint I'd avoid them. They're all over the place in the color match department, sometimes good, sometimes bad and customer service is poor. Here's my experience:

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,4206.msg50381.html#msg50381
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: darkside on June 02, 2013, 04:33:52 PM
I have a question about the z- bar bracket ,if you look at my pic the  bottom of bracket has a  slot that dips  down  were it lays on the frame .Is that dip supposed to go inside the top of frame  or give it lift ? Bracket doesn't lay flust on top of frame . I want to make sure its right before welding.thanks
http://carphotos4.cardomain.com/images/0016/49/64/16229446_large.jpg
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/images/0016/49/94/16229449_large.jpg
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: BIGBLCK11 on June 02, 2013, 08:53:30 PM
You have to grind that tab off for a 2nd gen., so it will be flat.  I 'think' the 3rd gens use it, so it is on there to work with either car. 
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: AKcharger on June 03, 2013, 10:34:27 AM
 :iagree:

Yeah I don't recall my bracket having that tab thingy
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: darkside on June 04, 2013, 03:05:38 PM
does this look correct? kinda hard to locate perfect spot going by pics.
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/images/0016/91/39/16231993_large.jpg

http://carphotos3.cardomain.com/images/0016/91/19/16231991_large.jpg

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/images/0016/91/49/16231994_large.jpg
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: BIGBLCK11 on June 04, 2013, 08:04:50 PM
Yes, that looks correct.  You def. start by lining up the front edge of the bracket to the outer point on that triangle cutout and by the center of the access hole.  I actually put the trans with bellhousing in the car, supported in the front by a heavy strap wrapped across the torsion bars.  I just wanted to be sure it was lined up nicely to get it tacked in place.  It wasn't too bad on a lift with another person.  I would also see how AKcharger lined his up.  Good luck with it!  I love having a 4 speed.   :2thumbs:
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: AKcharger on June 05, 2013, 03:55:56 AM
Looks correct Darkside. really if it's centered on that access hole it's going to be fine. at worst it will be off by 1/16 of an inch, you will never notice it.

Quote from: BIGBLCK11 on June 04, 2013, 08:04:50 PM
...I would also see how AKcharger lined his up...


Unfortunately I didn't take any pictures of the bracket when I was installing it, sorry. but we lined it up with the access hole tacked it in place.

Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: BIGBLCK11 on June 05, 2013, 10:07:34 PM
Quote from: AKcharger on June 05, 2013, 03:55:56 AM
Unfortunately I didn't take any pictures of the bracket when I was installing it, sorry. but we lined it up with the access hole tacked it in place.

No problem, I didn't either.  I intended to take a lot of pics, but once you get moving and your hands are dirty, it is difficult to keep grabbing the camera.  I didn't actually mean to 'see' how you did it, just to get your input as well, being that this was your thread.  You did a great job with pics and documenting the install for others, it is a great sticky.  I wish I had it when I did mine.   :2thumbs:
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: cjw916 on May 28, 2014, 06:47:14 PM
Great information & install AK! I wish I had this info 25 years ago when I swapped my 383 Auto for a 440 4-speed! My dad & I just 'winged it'. I did not know that there was a 'correct' hump, so we just got a generic Hurst boot & cut the hole just big enough to get the shifter through! I've had plenty of guys ask me where I got that boot, over the years. I think it was just the local speed shop, Napa?

Brewers has the correct hump, boot & bezel, I'm going to clean mine up and do new carpet, this summer.

Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: cjw916 on May 28, 2014, 06:59:50 PM
If anyone else is interested, my Z bar was always a PITA, every time I pushed the clutch in, squeeek! So, I saw a few different guys with hydraulic clutch conversions on their classic Mopar 4-speeds @ shows, asked around, did my own investigating; so after cleaning up my stock pedals, I decided to go crazy and gut the entire stock set-up, and went with a Wilwood pedals & master & slave setup. Made my own bracket for the slave to mount to, it bolts to the throttle pedal bolts & one extra bolt I put at the rear of my bracket for strength. It's worked effortlessly since I put it in, bled it, and adjusted the linkage. I'm replacing my clutch right now, after 25 years of burn-outs it finally 'gave up the ghost', which brought me to this thread, bc my wrench friend wanted to put the bellhousing & trans in together, and I kept telling him it'll be easier to put back in the new in the reverse order that we took it out. Seeing your bellhousing & clutch up there by themselves confirms my idea!
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: cjw916 on May 28, 2014, 07:02:29 PM
This is the final install pics. I have since cleaned up the wires that are 'suspect' around the master cylinders. :-) And plugged the linkage hole in the floor with a couple plates & a bolt sandwiching the plates together.

Thought about going with the hydraulic throw-out bearing, but I only need the bearing, and the cheapest I've found a hydraulic bearing is around $500, and my linear (it pulls on the throwout fork) clutch slave set-up works too well to pitch it in the trash for a different set-up that I'm not super confident will work, and might need adjusting, when my linear slave is super-easy to get at to adjust for clutch wear.
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: cjw916 on May 28, 2014, 07:24:27 PM
Thanks! BTW, I never knew that the notch in the top of the throwout fork was for a return spring! Now I do & will order the spring from Brewers!
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: cjw916 on May 29, 2014, 03:28:45 PM
FWIW, if any of you guys need a pedal assembly, booster, MC, used knuckle-buster lever, or used shifter or linkage, I have all of the above in my garage & would gladly offer any/all of it up to a forum member in need, at ridiculously reasonable pricing. . . just PM me, I'd love to help out another's project.

Christopher
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: AKcharger on May 30, 2014, 10:46:11 AM
Hmmmm I didn't know anyone made complete aftermarket pedal assemblies!  :popcrn:
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: cjw916 on May 30, 2014, 05:06:17 PM
Brewer's has everything you could possibly want to do a 'correct' conversion. They're a great resourse for individual parts, but can get costly for 'everything' needed, so that's why I went away from stock.

http://www.brewersperformance.com/4speed.asp

My car is not #'s matching & never will be, so I opted to go the aftermarket pedal route bc of the 'tunability' & ease of swapping master cylinders (they're only $60 apiece). I put 6pot calipers on the front and 4pot calipers on the rear. Wilwood originally recommended 7/8" MC for the front & 1" MC for the rear, I tried that and was not that impressed, it felt like I was driving manual brakes. I dropped to 3/4" MC front & 7/8" MC rear, which was a great improvement; I am now running 5/8" MC front and 3/4" MC rear and am ECSTATIC how good the brakes are! I easily get 1,500psi to the fronts (around 60# pedal effort, as I had calculated before making the swap). They're comparable to my SRT8 Jeep Brembos. If you've ever driven an SRT8 anything, you will know how wide the smile is on my face!

Note: I did hafta cut out the 'stock' brake booster firewall mount and welded in my own 18ga plates to mount my pedals. I measured about 15 times before making that first cut, and luckily I nailed it, perfectly. The pedals are at the exact correct height & clear the heater assembly & cowl vent assembly just perfectly. I did hafta cut my cowl vent box, and flip the door 180 degrees, I now push to open my vent, and pull to close it, the opposite of factory, but it's a change I can deal with. :-) It works, that's all I cared about.  

I would do it all over, again, but I have since seen several 'high dollar' builds that have used the same calipers that I used, with a stock booster and a Wilwood combo MC. They obviously got great results going that route, so I cannot deny that it'd work great. I'm happy with my results, but I'm sure they had less worry than I did, cutting the firewall, etc.

I do get a lot of guys that see 3 master cylinders & immediately ask me 'What's going on there?' :-)

Christopher
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: ChargerMX on August 26, 2014, 07:17:59 PM
Hope you guys can help me, i have a 69 charger with console, and doing the trans swap.

what if i am installing a 5 speed transmission like the T5 wich has a top loader shifter,   can i still use the hurst shifter with the pistol grip?, or what mods would i have to make so the shifter is centered with the console?
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: AKcharger on August 28, 2014, 11:25:54 PM
Hi Charger mx! welcome to the site

Well if you go with the 5 speed then all factory options are off the table...BUT you can do some mods to make it work. Problem is you'll have to do some hacking and welding to some expensive shifters to make it work. Maybe a non console B-body might be a good starting point

You might want to ask you transmission source if they have any custom made
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: cjw916 on May 05, 2015, 10:32:50 PM
A crazy idiot named Jeff has embarked upon the same Wilwood pedal conversion that I completed. He's doing a TKO600 swap, too. I can't wait to see more pictures!
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: cjw916 on November 16, 2015, 10:46:33 AM
AK, I *finally got my interior pulled out, and installed the correct 4spd hump!

My car just had a hole torn in the floor, enough to get the 4spd handle through! I set my hump in place and sprayed paint around the outside to mark where to cut, then I cut 3/4" inside that outline. I tach-welded mine in 4-5 spots and then used sealant all the way around about an inch wide, inside & out, before installing FatMat sound deadener.

New 448 sitting on RMS AlterKtion waiting to install in car.
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: cjw916 on November 16, 2015, 10:54:13 AM
Engine sure fills the bay, to the limit!

'70 handle, on '70 short-throw shifter box (Brewer's), with proper molded carpet (Legendary), correct non-console boot & trim ring (Brewer's again), looks fantastic!

It was a day of work (5-6 hours) to pull the carpet and wire brush all the old adhesive & jute off my floor pans. A day of work laying the FatMat. A day of work fitting the carpet perfectly (I used a soldering iron to cut my seatbelt and seat bolt holes, worked great!). And just a few minutes to hang the lever and screw the boot down, after we installed the new engine.

It really turned-out SuperClean looking!
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: Lighthorseman on February 16, 2016, 12:26:57 PM
 :drool5: :2thumbs:
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: AKcharger on February 16, 2016, 05:44:24 PM
Well done Sir! :yesnod:
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: 303 Mopar on February 22, 2016, 07:05:14 PM
Do you guys prefer B&B 3 fork or diaphragm?  Also Brewers is quoting a 10.5" 130 tooth wheel with a 10.95" disc for my 440.  Does this seem right?
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: Troy on February 23, 2016, 10:32:10 AM
Quote from: 303 Mopar on February 22, 2016, 07:05:14 PM
Do you guys prefer B&B 3 fork or diaphragm?  Also Brewers is quoting a 10.5" 130 tooth wheel with a 10.95" disc for my 440.  Does this seem right?
What bell housing do you have?

Troy
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: 303 Mopar on May 28, 2016, 08:35:38 AM
Just finished my conversion.  It sure is a whole lot more fun to drive!   :yesnod:

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/danfrazz/1968%20Charger/IMG_0829_zpshbrlo9jt.jpg) (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/danfrazz/media/1968%20Charger/IMG_0829_zpshbrlo9jt.jpg.html)
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: cjw916 on May 28, 2016, 09:45:20 AM
Dan,

The 10.9" diaphragm clutch for the 130tooth flywheel w/ organic/ceramic disc, is what I fit on my '68. Did you fit diaphragm or 3 finger Borg & Beck style?

Looks great, btw.

Chris
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: 303 Mopar on May 28, 2016, 10:09:35 AM
Quote from: cjw916 on May 28, 2016, 09:45:20 AM
Dan,

The 10.9" diaphragm clutch for the 130tooth flywheel w/ organic/ceramic disc, is what I fit on my '68. Did you fit diaphragm or 3 finger Borg & Beck style?

Looks great, btw.

Chris

Thanks Chris.  I went with the diaphragm, its plenty stiff for me.
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: plumsun3 on August 20, 2016, 06:03:22 AM
I changed the 727 in my '71 track pack 4.10 car with a tremec 5spd. from Keisler
Kit was pretty complete. You can select gearing, with overdrive system I'm getting
3 mpg better. Also hydraulic clutch setup makes for easier install and function.
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: Jason95Charger on September 27, 2016, 06:42:38 PM
Awesome, planning on doing this too along with swapping in a 440
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: AKcharger on October 13, 2017, 10:20:57 AM
Pictures fixed...Rot in Hell Photobucket!  :flame:
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: Rolling_Thunder on May 25, 2018, 01:56:43 PM
Quote from: AKcharger on October 13, 2017, 10:20:57 AM
Pictures fixed...Rot in Hell Photobucket!  :flame:

X1,000,000
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: aifilaw on July 24, 2018, 09:26:32 AM
Finally getting to work on my conversion, already running into problems...
Have an 833OD that Chryco built me a long time ago. B-Body 72 Charger.
Quicktime bellhousing. Got the remaining parts I needed in a bulk package from Brewers.

Used their adapter plate for the shifter attachment at the rear of the 833 body, I don't see any other way it hooks up since it used all the bolt holes and hardware perfectly. But aside from the Reverse linkage which goes below, I'm not sure how the 1-2 and 3-4 linkage rods are going to attach without cutting the main Subframe support brace that runs across the body and the transmission mount cross member attaches too. Shouldn't have to cut that.
This is with the transmission in place behind the engine, it may be just a little low due to the cross member not there I suppose.
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: 303 Mopar on July 24, 2018, 10:22:38 AM
Quote from: aifilaw on July 24, 2018, 09:26:32 AM
Used their adapter plate for the shifter attachment at the rear of the 833 body, I don't see any other way it hooks up since it used all the bolt holes and hardware perfectly. But aside from the Reverse linkage which goes below, I'm not sure how the 1-2 and 3-4 linkage rods are going to attach without cutting the main Subframe support brace that runs across the body and the transmission mount cross member attaches too. Shouldn't have to cut that.
This is with the transmission in place behind the engine, it may be just a little low due to the cross member not there I suppose.

Make sure your longest rod is correct, it may need to be flipped. The OD trans is different set up than standard, and I had the same issue on my Cuda until I looked up the correct configuration.
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: aifilaw on July 24, 2018, 12:12:30 PM
Appreciate it, I double-checked the gears on the ground before I slid it in place, so both the 1-2 and 3-4 rods need to be lengthened by about an inch (brewers mentioned this to me as well, which makes me wonder why they don't just make them correctly to begin with).
But regardless of orientation, they will both have to go right through the center of that cross member hat brace, and I'm not okay with cutting thru that thing, there's got to be a better way.
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: BLK 68 R/T on July 24, 2018, 01:12:07 PM
I thought the part of the floor pan that is still covering the crossmember gets removed and the 1-2, 3-4 shifter rods go over the top of the crossmember and the reverse rod goes below it?
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: aifilaw on July 24, 2018, 02:04:16 PM
Quote from: BLK 68 R/T on July 24, 2018, 01:12:07 PM
I thought the part of the floor pan that is still covering the crossmember gets removed and the 1-2, 3-4 shifter rods go over the top of the crossmember and the reverse rod goes below it?

I got an answer from Brewers an hour ago saying just that. I've got about 2" of clearance I need, that will gain me 1/16". The tranny mount is not in there, etc, so I can raise it up, and maybe that will give me just enough, but it will be close, too close for comfort because i don't want them touching or scraping during shifting or when the vehicle is bouncing around on the mounts. I need to add about 1" of length to the 1-2 and 3-4 linkages, so while I'm at it, I may have to put a bend in them to clear better and give the true clearance I need.
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: BLK 68 R/T on July 24, 2018, 02:22:24 PM
Quote from: aifilaw on July 24, 2018, 02:04:16 PM
Quote from: BLK 68 R/T on July 24, 2018, 01:12:07 PM
I thought the part of the floor pan that is still covering the crossmember gets removed and the 1-2, 3-4 shifter rods go over the top of the crossmember and the reverse rod goes below it?

I got an answer from Brewers an hour ago saying just that. I've got about 2" of clearance I need, that will gain me 1/16". The tranny mount is not in there, etc, so I can raise it up, and maybe that will give me just enough, but it will be close, too close for comfort because i don't want them touching or scraping during shifting or when the vehicle is bouncing around on the mounts. I need to add about 1" of length to the 1-2 and 3-4 linkages, so while I'm at it, I may have to put a bend in them to clear better and give the true clearance I need.

:2thumbs:
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: 303 Mopar on July 24, 2018, 02:48:09 PM
Quote from: BLK 68 R/T on July 24, 2018, 02:22:24 PM
Quote from: aifilaw on July 24, 2018, 02:04:16 PM
Quote from: BLK 68 R/T on July 24, 2018, 01:12:07 PM
I thought the part of the floor pan that is still covering the crossmember gets removed and the 1-2, 3-4 shifter rods go over the top of the crossmember and the reverse rod goes below it?

I got an answer from Brewers an hour ago saying just that. I've got about 2" of clearance I need, that will gain me 1/16". The tranny mount is not in there, etc, so I can raise it up, and maybe that will give me just enough, but it will be close, too close for comfort because i don't want them touching or scraping during shifting or when the vehicle is bouncing around on the mounts. I need to add about 1" of length to the 1-2 and 3-4 linkages, so while I'm at it, I may have to put a bend in them to clear better and give the true clearance I need.
:2thumbs:

That is the same set up for my '70 Cuda too, reverse is under the cross member.  It clears fine.  Glad you figured it out.
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: aifilaw on July 27, 2018, 10:48:31 AM
Well, as you can see from the before picture, the 1-2 linkage wouldn't reach at all, the 3-4 was on about 3-4 threads and the 3-4 rod was going to be scraping on the cross-member.
I added 5/8" to the 3-4 and put a 3-5 degree bend in it. I added 1" to the 1-2 linkage, then re-blued the metal This stuff looks good now.
I'm starting to look at researching a tic-toc-tac and see if there's a complete gauge replacement, or rebuild now. I've got a regular stock clock that hasn't worked since I've owned the car. And a speedo that decided 50mph was stopped recently, and has always bounced like crazy... so need to pull the gauge cluster I guess while I'm adding the clutch and everything else down below it.... not looking forward to that, mostly because I see no youtube video's showing the best way :(     spoiled now.
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: aifilaw on August 01, 2018, 10:36:32 AM
Pedals are in, The Brewers bracket that braces the clutch pedal was pretty simple to install. I test fit everything and got a sharpie out to mark the holes to drill in the firewall for mounting it, and realized when I did there was already two big dimples in the metal in the exact position from the factory. I guess they just got out a drill when the assembly line BoM called for a manual transmission. There was another 1/2" bolt that went into a previously unused threaded hole as well in the correct spot.
Just for others reference, once you drill out the two holes for the mounting bracket, install it with the firewall nuts only on a few threads and the other off completely. Put the dust-grommets on the clutch either side of the needle bearings and slide the rod in threaded side first of course while holding up the clutch pedal. Push it just a thread onto the lip of the next metal brace, then make sure you put in the two white plastic bushings on the brake pedal and then put that in place and continue sliding the rod through it. Will take some wiggling but it will line up. Go until the threads are through the next metal brace, screw on the nut a couple of turns.
Then put in the final bolt on the mounting bracket, tighten that all the way as well as the two firewall nuts, and finally go back and tighten down the rod nut and then re-attach the brake push rod.
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: AKcharger on August 04, 2018, 04:20:32 PM
So the overdrive has a longer tailshaft??
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: aifilaw on August 06, 2018, 11:01:26 AM
Chryco knows more about this topic. But I believe you are correct. Also the 3-4 has to be set in one particular direction depending on whether you want 3 to be 1:1 or 4th to be 1:1
Also may have to do with the year of the charger for the mount to the tailshaft for the shifter and the linkage. Just trying to document my installation as best I can for others who are doing a 71-74 conversion.

I've got the hump spot welded in, going to silicone it up. Got the Z-Bar mount welded to the frame rail in the driver front wheel well.

The kit came with the Z-bar mount threaded ball on a stick, two of them, and only one nut. One I'll mount to the frame rail bracket that was welded in. the other needs to screw into the Bellhousing. But this quicktime bellhousing is not threaded for it, nor is the hole big enough to just slide through.

I measured the threaded ball on stick is 9/16-12. Which is a hard nut to find, but finally found one, I'm guessing the stock bellhousing hole is threaded for this already.
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: aifilaw on September 03, 2018, 09:58:33 AM
Got the hump spot welded in, had some spare rustoleum and then silicone to seal it up.

The rear attachment bracket was redundant as the automatic had the same one already in place. I used that as a reference as screwed that into the plastic center console, then screwed the front bracket that came with the kit into the plastic console. Snuck in there thru the shifter hole and spot welded it. Then unscrewed the plastic and solidified that bracket.

The Z-bar ball bracket went right in place, there's a slot in the back against the frame rail is drops right into, you can't possibly screw it up once it drops in place and welded in just like the pictures from page 2 of this thread.

The Z-bar link ball was a nightmare for the quicktime bellhousing. It wouldn't have been if I could have sourced a 9/16-12 tap...
Instead I was able to find a 9/16-12 lock-nut I cut in half. Clearance was a real problem, but it's in there now.

Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: aifilaw on September 04, 2018, 08:33:20 AM
Descriptions in order on this '72 conversion from 727 to 833 OD...

I don't know how this would have gone if I had used a stock bellhousing.... but as nice as this quicktime bellhousing is, it's got it's problems as well.
Most of the hardware that it came with is useless. Allen Inset headed bolts for attaching the engine block are worthless in my opinion, so I bought some new ones. The holes in the bellhousing for the transmission are 7/16 threads and not 3/8 threads, so standard 9/16 head bolts won't fit to go from the transmission to the bellhousing, had to go buy the correct size of these as well as they didn't come with. The two bolts that attach the pivot point for the fork didn't come with it, no instructions came with it, and nothing online either. It's obviously a fairly universal bellhousing with many different threaded and unthreaded bolt holes....

Since the holes for the pivot point are blind threaded holes I had to find two nice grade 8 bolts and cut them down to a length that would fit without going into the transmission housing as seen in picture 1

Picture 2 is where the retainer clip from the fork goes through the pivot point

After 4 hours of working in the smallest space possible, because the fork won't go thru the hole with the pivot bracket in there, so have to shove fork in, then slide in pivot bracket, then attempt to screw it it. The curved edge of it makes you think it goes in with the curve fitting with the inside of the bellhousing circle, but that's backwards and the brace won't line up with the fork on the throwout bearing (too far away). The only way I was able to get it to work is slide the bracket onto the retainer clip, then slide it all in, attach it to the throwout bearing ,and then attempt to screw it in.

Picture 5 is the Z-bar installed and the clutch pedal bar hooked to it.

Picture 6 is the unused boot, since it won't fit in the quicktime bellhousing

Picture 7 is the only good news of a whole day of working on this thing. The transmission mount and crossmember is universal, just used the one that held up the 727 and everything is exactly where it should be!!!

picture 8 shows the fork, return spring, adjustment rod and Z-bar all connected and complete

Last up is putting the interior back together, The clutch appears to be working, got the starter back in, and driveshaft, etc. All that's left is putting the seat back, console back, shift boot and all the aesthetics in place. Carpet needed to be redone at some point anyways. And then I can crank her up and see if everything is working well.
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: aifilaw on September 06, 2018, 09:45:26 AM
It's a good thing when I lengthened the 1-2 and 3-4 I put a slight bend in them too. clearance is very tight with everything in place and the tranny mounted up.
I don't like how the console doesn't cover the side of the shifter base. Or how far the shifter base is to the rear, it almost touches the console when in 2nd gear. But it's okay I guess.

Still need to redo the carpet along with plenty of other interior work to be done, but it's installed.

Got a test drive in this morning and operated the clutch about a dozen times... on the last time the fork slipped out about 3/8"  out of the groove in the fork and now it won't engage. I'm guessing I just didn't have the nut adjusted down far enough to cause constant pressure and tension. Hoping I don't have to pull the transmission and I can get it back in there through the fork hole in the bellhousing.
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: AKcharger on September 06, 2018, 02:33:35 PM
Almost done! glad to hear you're nearing the end. why did you go with the quick time bell housing instead of the stock one?
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: aifilaw on September 08, 2018, 10:03:48 AM
I had a friend who had one and was willing to get rid of it for half the price of a new one, so....

Wow, so pulled the transmission again, fork fell off because the pivot plate was incorrect. Do not try to use a 72 B-Body clutch fork with the pivot plate ont he quicktime housing that is labelled for B & E body. It puts the clutch fork in the wrong place.

There's two pivot plates that come with the quicktime housing (and no bolts as mentioned earlier). You can flip them to put the centering plate in different spots. One is stamped for B & E body...... one is stamped for A body... so I got 4 chances, and of course it worked on the last one. A body plate, with it mounted backwards from the way it's expected to be centers it perfectly on the pressure plate.

Hind-sight being 20-20, install flywheel, clutch and pressure plate with centering tool, install bellhousing. then install clutch pivot plate finger-tight, slide in clutch fork, add throwout bearing and look down the center of where the input shaft will go and eyeball it to ensure it's centered with the clutch fork on. For each one it puts it in a different place and it is significantly off in a few.
Also, getting the two bolts tightened down that hold the pivot plate inside the bellhousing requires often 1/16 flip turns with an open wrench from inside the bellhousing... the clutch fork has to be put inside the bellhousing before the pressure plate as there's no room once the pivot plate is installed to get it in from either the transmission opening or the clutch fork opening. In short... nightmare design.

Once the wife get's back I'll have help sliding the A833OD back in, then I can bolt it back up and should be done.
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: aifilaw on September 08, 2018, 10:09:47 AM
Oh.... wiring was fun. The wiring harness that comes from Brewer's that plugs into the firewall has the two pins for connecting the reverse lights. But not the brown wire for the neutral safety switch. It does have an auxiliary plug coming out of one of the reverse light's, but it is not the correct one to use.
In order to actually convert, you need to splice into the black/white stripe (the other one, not the one they spliced out of the connector for) and connect your brown wire that goes to the starter relay. You also need to take that same brown wire that was coming out of the old connector and pull the 1/4" plug pin from the old firewall connector and put it in the new connector in the same position.
If you want your neutral safety switch to work on your new clutch pedal, you need a clutch pedal switch (I saw a mounting hole for it in the metal bracket under the dash) and wire this in series with the brown wire for the old neutral safety switch.

I may do this.... may not.... when I had the clutch fork fall off due to the wrong pivot plate, I used the starter and put it in first gear to get the car moving, saved me from pushing it up into my shop 30ft.
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: aifilaw on September 10, 2018, 04:04:07 PM
And final...
cars running, clutch works, everything in place.

After talking with the nice folks at Brewers, he said the older models of the Quicktime bellhousing had the pivot plates stamped backwards. Apparently some people put some shims underneath the small pivot plate and stick with the stock adjusting rod. And some just get the A-body adjusting rod.
There's no way I'm pulling this thing apart a third time... so I'm getting the longer A-body 7-1/4" fork adjusting rod because with the shorter pivot plate, the 4" one is just not long enough to work properly and not fall out at pedal in full travel.
No need for the spring inside the vehicle on the pedal since I'm using a McL finger pressure plate.

Hopefully this will be helpful for someone who wants to do this conversion with the pictures in addition to the ones from the original thread.
If I had to do it again, I would have just bought a stock bellhousing from Brewers where I got the rest of the parts.
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: AKcharger on January 04, 2019, 07:32:30 PM
 :popcrn:  hows it working out??
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: aifilaw on January 23, 2019, 03:53:27 PM
Quote from: AKcharger on January 04, 2019, 07:32:30 PM
:popcrn:  hows it working out??

So far, so good. love being able to cruise at highway speeds and stomp on it up into the hundreds without worrying about the high RPM's.

I only have two complaints.
1. I forgot how much transmission synchro's sucked back in the day. Going from 1st to 2nd, and 2nd to 3rd happens very slowly or I'm grinding on my way in.
2. around 2800rpm and above in 4th gear there's been a loud rattling that sounds just like engine knock, which I thought it was at first, but on further investigation seems to be coming from around the tails-shaft. I took everything apart and made sure it was all tight and locked down...same noise.
If I put slight pressure on the shifter to either side it stops, that's definitely where it's coming from, so I assume its the little plates inside the clutch rattling. It's not really shaking, so I don't think anything is really out of alignment, but enough to irritate me.
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: AKcharger on January 30, 2019, 06:23:55 AM
Well, if you think you may play with the shifter, this might help
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,93504.msg1064538.html#msg1064538
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: aifilaw on January 30, 2019, 09:33:54 AM
Quote from: AKcharger on January 30, 2019, 06:23:55 AM
Well, if you think you may play with the shifter, this might help
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,93504.msg1064538.html#msg1064538

Thanks, I'm not expert on these things, but the shifter is brand new from brewers, and I used all the right shims with no play and pins, so I'm guessing it's fine and no need to rebuild. Maybe it's something in the adjustment making it a little slow getting into a couple gears, or maybe something in the transmission.
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: PtitRaisin on June 08, 2020, 05:59:25 PM
Damn this post is good!  :cheers:
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: rockosocko on September 07, 2020, 03:48:30 AM
DANGIT.. Gotta read all over again. Couldn't get past Ms. Bouncy  :icon_smile_big:

Awesome info guys! 
I've got two 833's (one overdrive) But my vehicle that's getting it was a 5spd and NOT a true Mopar. (shhh It's a secret)
When I called Brewers, he asked me What body? and seemed to get the "here we go again" type of sigh from his end.

Going hydraulic instead of linkage also, so I might be PM'ing you guys when I get to that point.

BUT.. Did any of you guys use a dial indicator to align your bell housing?  I have two 'stock' dual bolt pattern bells.
I've heard of input shafts, pilots getting eaten up by not doing this.

Thanks
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: AKcharger on September 08, 2020, 10:14:55 AM
Quote from: rockosocko on September 07, 2020, 03:48:30 AM
DANGIT.. Gotta read all over again. Couldn't get past Ms. Bouncy  :icon_smile_big:

... Did any of you guys use a dial indicator to align your bell housing?  I have two 'stock' dual bolt pattern bells.
I've heard of input shafts, pilots getting eaten up by not doing this.

Thanks

Sorry about bouncy lady...not really  :icon_smile_big:

Yes I failed to take a photo of that step but yes have to use a dial guage...the service manual has good instructions on it. you will then use off-set dowels to make sure it's alighned properly.  and you are correct, that is why so many clutches and stuff were eatten up when were were kids and just threw em in
Title: Re: How to do a 4 speed swap...with pictures!
Post by: ACUDANUT on April 25, 2022, 01:16:33 PM
I bet the current price to do a factory 4-speed is north of 5k Now. Not counting labor.