Hey guys, I was thinking about wiring for my car...
I've got all of the wiring including the engine bay wiring, dash harness, the stuff that goes to the rear tail lights, console, etc. Everything. However, it looks really rough as is expected.
I've heard of some people wiring their whole car with a Painless wiring kit, and I was wondering if that would be my best bet. I know that it would be a lot cheaper, and I don't give a damn about correctness, etc. However, I don't have much wiring experience aside from wiring car stereos and amps and such.
Also, I was planning on using aftermarket gauges in my car, and don't know how that would work with the stock dash wiring harness?
So I mean to ask what you guys think about wiring my car with a Painless kit. I don't mean to sound conceited or anything, but I'm really good at learning stuff and I know that this forum would be a great help to me. Do you guys think that I could tackle this? How hard would it be to do? Could I wire all of the engine bay stuff along with the underdash/in cab stuff, or would I want to just get a repro harness for that?
I know this post is basically a bunch of questions, but I'm very unknowledgeable about this stuff and am really needing to spend as little as I can. I've got a lot more time than money. Any information/suggestion is appreciated!
the painless kit is OK , it will replace everything & it is all GM based fro circuits & colors etc , it will not have a bulkhead plug so you will have to close that in all the wires are clearly marked where they go to & from
Really I am not a fan but they do work
you can use a painless harness and reuse all your factory style connectors... including the bulkhead connector... I used the painless kit and thought it was a breeze... rewired my whole can in about 2 days... granted its not correct - but it works.... i didnt trust my 40 year old wiring
Quote from: Rolling_Thunder on January 23, 2007, 03:14:12 AM
you can use a painless harness and reuse all your factory style connectors... including the bulkhead connector... I used the painless kit and thought it was a breeze... rewired my whole can in about 2 days... granted its not correct - but it works.... i didnt trust my 40 year old wiring
Doesn't sound too
painless to me. Reuse factory connectors, as in splice them in? Two days?
I realize the M&H harnesses that YO sells are very expensive, but from what I have seen and heard, well worth it.
I am sure there are numerous threads on wiring on this site if you want answers from the past.
No offense Rolling Thunder, just my $0.02.
I installed a "It's a Snap" harness (similar to EZ Wire) in my 70 and it was a piece of cake. It took me a week ++ however. I drilled wire sized holes straight through my old bulkhead connector and fed the new wires through it so there was no weak connectors at the bulkhead. (especially the heavy current conductors to the fuse box). I mounted the new fuse box in the original fuse box location in the glove compartment. I would recommend it. It does away with the fusible links.
Quote from: Shakey on January 23, 2007, 07:32:10 AM
Quote from: Rolling_Thunder on January 23, 2007, 03:14:12 AM
you can use a painless harness and reuse all your factory style connectors... including the bulkhead connector... I used the painless kit and thought it was a breeze... rewired my whole can in about 2 days... granted its not correct - but it works.... i didnt trust my 40 year old wiring
Doesn't sound too painless to me. Reuse factory connectors, as in splice them in? Two days?
I realize the M&H harnesses that YO sells are very expensive, but from what I have seen and heard, well worth it.
I am sure there are numerous threads on wiring on this site if you want answers from the past.
No offense Rolling Thunder, just my $0.02.
No offense intended... I have used the M&H harnesses in many of the cars at the shop and I'm not really impressed... yes its a good product and for factory correct guys it is great - however - sometimes i find myself adding, cutting, splicing anyway to make the harness fit the car... also... sometimes the harnesses are not what I call "complete" - prefect example is the neutral safety harness on a B-body - it does not come with the new wiper harness.... to me - im not going to pay 1000+ for new wiring harnesses and still have to make, cut, solder, crimp, splice... ain't gonna happen...
Also - I ordered EVERY harness for a 1970 Charger R/T... apparently all but the engine harness is Backordered... first I was told until Jan 6, 2007 (Ordered late Nov) - still not in - now I call to check and they are "unknown" as to when they will be... all I know is there are 16 other people out there waiting for harnesses... M&H are overpriced and seem a bit lazy to me...
as yo your questions... yes - I used the factory moulded connectors be removing the old wiring from them - crimping and soldering new male and/or females onto the new painless wiring then re-inserting them into the factory moulded connector... yes it only took me two days - collectively about 16 hours - I have less than $400 for my entire car wiring - that is less than just a dash harness from YO..
Good points Rolling Thunder! :yesnod:
I guess you have seen both sides of the coin which makes your input more valuable than mine. :yesnod:
I like the stock wiring harnesses from M&H and know they are pricey and easy to install, which is good because my electrical capabilities are limited. Perhaps one day, if I choose to do another car, which I'd like to, I'll investigate my options.
:cheers:
I think I've decided to wire the car with EZ Wiring. The "EZ 21" kit is $185 and has 18 fuses, 21 circuits. The description from the site says:
"Our EZ 21 pre-wired fuse block will wire your car from headlight's to taillight's. It features 18 fuses and 21 circuits. The circuits are Radio, Coil, Dome Lights, Headlights, Horn, Power Door Locks, Cig Lighter, Wiper Switch, Elect. Fuel Pump, Gauges, Hazard Lights, Power Windows, AC/Heat, Elect. Fan, Backup/Cruise, Radio, Turn Signal.
It also Includes Horn Relay and Connector, Turn and Hazard Signals, Dimmer Switch Connector, Circuit Breaker for Headlights, 2 Flashers, 1 Alternator Plug, 2 Ignition Switch
Connectors Plus more."
Check this out. www.ronfrancis.com
This is the kit I'm going to use on my 70 soon. I'm very impressed with how its put together. I'm adding aftermarket guages, alternator, nitrous, stereo, and some other stuff to my 70 RT and my entire harness needs to be changed out. I do see some good reasons for this as opposed to a repro harness.
1. It elimanates the trouble-prone bulkhead connector. I can write a book about those things failing.
2. no more fusible links
3. No more glass fuses.
4. Easily upgradable and will handle much more work that the lousy factory wiring.
I could go on and on but I believe that the only major flaw with Mopars is their lousy wiring. I am building my car to be bullet proof and dead reliable and I think this is the best way.
The only thing that worries me is figuring out how to wire the factory heater/ac controls, hidden headlight switches and relays, etc, into the aftermarket harness. Thats going to drive me crazy. I am very interested in hearing what everyone elese is doing about this. I'm trying to put together the best wiring system possible.
The new harness thru the old bulkhead connector is a great idea. I was trying to figure out what kind of grommet or boot to use for that.
I'm bumping this thread to the top cuz I will be wiring my car very soon and want to hear every bit of advice and ideas you guys have. I'm very interested in this..
I just finished installing a Ron Francis Express wiring harness, and I was very impressed with the complete kit. Not overly hard to install either. My only previous experience with wiring has been very minor with stereos, amps, etc. Heck, the only thing that was a little tricky was finding a spot to mount the Fuse panel. I also purchase their extra "Courtesy Lighting" package with small interior lights. I added these above each kick panel. Between those, the lights in the console, and the one to the right of the stereo, I opted to install a switch for the dome light. The interior lighting came out nice without being over powering at night, but lights up the floor and seating area really nice.
I just wanted to give everyone an update... my wiring harnesses for the 1970 Charger R/T STILL HAVE NOT COME IN... this is the LAST time i EVER deal with year one.... 2.5 months.... 2.5 months.... i guess being a paying customer isnt what it used to be... sure - they didnt have a problem taking my $1000+
Hey bandit,
Did you mate the harness up to work with the factory heater box, headlight switch, wiper switch, etc? How involved was that. I haven't got their kit yet but that is the only thing I'm wondering. Where did you mount the fuse box? I was thinking of making a plate to put it behind the glovebox. I'd love to see pics if you got 'em, I'm wiring mine up as soon as the engines in.
Thanks
Painless wiring has a mopar harness you can get from Summit Racing my brother got one for his 68 Dart. It has all the correct wire colors which is a big help.
Well, funny you should mention those things.... I have Vintage Air, so wiring that was easy... But I'm not sure about the factory heater wiring. I used the vacum portion of my headlight switch for the headlight doors, but I used the Ron Francis switch for the actual power to the lighting. When it comes to the wiper switch, I used the factory wiring from the switch to the Wiper motor itself, since that was simple and that was the only fragment of my harness that was in good shape. :icon_smile_big: For mounting the fuse panel, you'll realize when you get it, its pretty big. I was planning on mounting it behind the glove box myself, but it just wasn't going to fit and be even remotely accessible. I ended up removing the fresh air vent box from the driverside corner behind the dash, and this freed up a large amount of room directly on the firewall. I found this spot to be the best overall.
Something to keep in mind, I'm not interested, nor was it feesible (financially) to keep my Charger stock, so whether or not the color of the wires matched was of no concern to me. I wanted a harness that was well made, modern in design, and virtually bulletproof reliable. I found the Ron Francis harness met all of these criteria. My father has built several "street rods" over the years, and installed both the Painless Brand, Ron Francis harnesses, and felt they were both perfectly fine in design and function. He told me that he felt the Ron Francis harness was more "expandable" in a sence of adding options down the line, which I plan to do, so I went that route. I typically have larger sound systems, I also plan to add various power accessories as finances allow.
Unfortunately this is the only pic I have and my digital camera is busted due to an over zealous German Sheperd..... As soon as I get a new camera, I'll get some picks of the new setup....
I only I bring up the wiring being the correct color because people such as myself and my brother haven't done anything like this before and it comes in handy when using the factory service manual. Just my point
The factory service manual was INVALUABLE when it came to the installation of my Ron Francis Harness! Even though the wires are indeed different colors, I couldn't have installed the harness without it. Its good that you have it, you will reference it more times than you could possibly count when tackling a project like this. ;) I sincerely apologize if my "Wire Color" statement came off harsh, that wasn't my intention. The wire color does mean alot to some in terms of originality, I was simply saying for me, I felt the change was unavoidable.
To anyone reading this thread, the key to installing a new harness is, taking your time. Don't let yourself get frustrated, and only look at a one thing at a time... If you look at the entire project as a whole, it could be over whelming (at least it was for me), just take it one step at a time, and it will be over before you know it. ;D
Theres a lot of good info here.
What did you do about the hole for the bulkhead connector Bandit?? How did you fill it up?
Quote from: JR on February 17, 2007, 02:00:28 PM
Theres a lot of good info here.
What did you do about the hole for the bulkhead connector Bandit?? How did you fill it up?
I cut a piece of sheet aluminium (painted black) slightly larger than the bulkhead hole, the cut a "Keyhole" style shape from the bottom. Then I installed a rubber gromet approximately the size of the entire harness so there wouldn't be any rubbing. On the engine bay side I covered everything in black plastic looming so it finishes it off pretty nice.
Here are some pics if you are interested. ;D
(http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/6008/im001529vc6.jpg)
(http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/6893/im001526dw1.jpg)
Very nice work, I can't wait to do mine!
just out of curiosity did your car come with the console or did you add that in your self
Quote from: charger_mike75 on February 18, 2007, 08:49:16 PM
just out of curiosity did your car come with the console or did you add that in your self
Its a factory console car. Although in that particular pic, its just layin' in there.
Quote from: Bandit4142 on February 18, 2007, 06:30:45 PM
Here are some pics if you are interested. ;D
(http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/6893/im001526dw1.jpg)
Where did you get that Battery tray for the Optima?
I'm looking for one...
Here ya' go. :) They also have other accessories for Optima's or standard batteries as well.
http://www.eddiemarine.com/cart/catalog.asp?CategoryID=6&CategoryName=Battery%2F+Boxes%2FCharger
Quote from: Bandit4142 on February 19, 2007, 06:39:51 PM
Here ya' go. :) They also have other accessories for Optima's or standard batteries as well.
http://www.eddiemarine.com/cart/catalog.asp?CategoryID=6&CategoryName=Battery%2F+Boxes%2FCharger
Thanks! :2thumbs:
UPDATE on being RAPED by YEAR ONE and M&H... went down to M&H last friday... they informed me they shipped my harness to YEAR ONE on 2/12/07.... it has still not come... I called YEAR ONE and they politely informed me that my harness "should be in by mid APRIL".... lets see... November... December... January.... Febuary... March... April.... I'm counting almost 6 months to make a could wiring harnesses... I WILL be driving down to M&H again Monday morning and will be expecting answers (they have been informed of my visit) as to why I am harnessless... I have a customer car waiting for wiring harnesses... been waiting for 3 months solid now... He will be accompanying me on my little visit... YEAR ONE is lucky I dont live near them....
I usually dont talk ill of companies... but I strongly recommend you guys listen to me on this one...
DO NOT ORDER WIRING HARNESSES FROM YEAR ONE! I have paid good money and still have no product...
so... as a result... I have decided I am going to get my harnesses one way or another - I am giving them two weeks - then I figure I will be refunded my full amount and use that $$$ to purchase wire and connectors... I will then make my own harnesses and undercut their business. I originally ordered the harnesses to save me the time and frustration of making new harnesses... however after putting up with all this bullshit I have changed my mind. If i would have know it would have taken 6 months to get a harness... I would have made my own in about a week... I have access to ALL the factory connectors and have already sourced all the Factory wires... anyone see a reason why I shouldnt do this ? I'm tired of YEAR ONE sticking it the customer - because of their MONOPOLY on factory wiring harnesses - they can charge what they want and take as long as they want. Both YEAR ONE and M&H are to blame - - -
Sorry for the rant guys but I am sick of this... but just thought someone here might care.
Thanks for the update Rolling Thunder. I sure won't be ordering from them. Thats another reason I'm going aftermarket wiring on mine. Good luck with it.
Quote from: Rolling_Thunder on February 24, 2007, 03:43:52 AM
UPDATE on being RAPED by YEAR ONE and M&H... went down to M&H last friday... they informed me they shipped my harness to YEAR ONE on 2/12/07.... it has still not come... I called YEAR ONE and they politely informed me that my harness "should be in by mid APRIL".... lets see... November... December... January.... Febuary... March... April.... I'm counting almost 6 months to make a could wiring harnesses... I WILL be driving down to M&H again Monday morning and will be expecting answers (they have been informed of my visit) as to why I am harnessless... I have a customer car waiting for wiring harnesses... been waiting for 3 months solid now... He will be accompanying me on my little visit... YEAR ONE is lucky I dont live near them....
I usually dont talk ill of companies... but I strongly recommend you guys listen to me on this one...
DO NOT ORDER WIRING HARNESSES FROM YEAR ONE! I have paid good money and still have no product...
so... as a result... I have decided I am going to get my harnesses one way or another - I am giving them two weeks - then I figure I will be refunded my full amount and use that $$$ to purchase wire and connectors... I will then make my own harnesses and undercut their business. I originally ordered the harnesses to save me the time and frustration of making new harnesses... however after putting up with all this bullshit I have changed my mind. If i would have know it would have taken 6 months to get a harness... I would have made my own in about a week... I have access to ALL the factory connectors and have already sourced all the Factory wires... anyone see a reason why I shouldnt do this ? I'm tired of YEAR ONE sticking it the customer - because of their MONOPOLY on factory wiring harnesses - they can charge what they want and take as long as they want. Both YEAR ONE and M&H are to blame - - -
Sorry for the rant guys but I am sick of this... but just thought someone here might care.
so what ever happen with the harness' from hell?
Quote from: NMike on March 04, 2007, 09:33:00 PM
Quote from: Rolling_Thunder on February 24, 2007, 03:43:52 AM
UPDATE on being RAPED by YEAR ONE and M&H... went down to M&H last friday... they informed me they shipped my harness to YEAR ONE on 2/12/07.... it has still not come... I called YEAR ONE and they politely informed me that my harness "should be in by mid APRIL".... lets see... November... December... January.... Febuary... March... April.... I'm counting almost 6 months to make a could wiring harnesses... I WILL be driving down to M&H again Monday morning and will be expecting answers (they have been informed of my visit) as to why I am harnessless... I have a customer car waiting for wiring harnesses... been waiting for 3 months solid now... He will be accompanying me on my little visit... YEAR ONE is lucky I dont live near them....
I usually dont talk ill of companies... but I strongly recommend you guys listen to me on this one...
DO NOT ORDER WIRING HARNESSES FROM YEAR ONE! I have paid good money and still have no product...
so... as a result... I have decided I am going to get my harnesses one way or another - I am giving them two weeks - then I figure I will be refunded my full amount and use that $$$ to purchase wire and connectors... I will then make my own harnesses and undercut their business. I originally ordered the harnesses to save me the time and frustration of making new harnesses... however after putting up with all this bullshit I have changed my mind. If i would have know it would have taken 6 months to get a harness... I would have made my own in about a week... I have access to ALL the factory connectors and have already sourced all the Factory wires... anyone see a reason why I shouldnt do this ? I'm tired of YEAR ONE sticking it the customer - because of their MONOPOLY on factory wiring harnesses - they can charge what they want and take as long as they want. Both YEAR ONE and M&H are to blame - - -
Sorry for the rant guys but I am sick of this... but just thought someone here might care.
so what ever happen with the harness' from hell?
haha, i'm waiting for one too.....ordered it January 2nd...i've got 2 little cards from them asking me to be patient though lol, good thing i'm not in a hurry
I've never ordered wiring for the Charger but have had nothing but GREAT LUCK with American Rewire for my chevy. Great Tech support and there's nothing they don't know about wiring your car. Just recieved my dash harness for my LS5, took 6 days for it to arrive. I'm keeping everything as chevy correct as possible. Don't forget, correct cars demand far greater sales price than installing for ease. It's worth every nickel as serious collectors prefer to buy correct cars.
Quote from: NMike on March 04, 2007, 09:33:00 PM
Quote from: Rolling_Thunder on February 24, 2007, 03:43:52 AM
UPDATE on being RAPED by YEAR ONE and M&H... went down to M&H last friday... they informed me they shipped my harness to YEAR ONE on 2/12/07.... it has still not come... I called YEAR ONE and they politely informed me that my harness "should be in by mid APRIL".... lets see... November... December... January.... Febuary... March... April.... I'm counting almost 6 months to make a could wiring harnesses... I WILL be driving down to M&H again Monday morning and will be expecting answers (they have been informed of my visit) as to why I am harnessless... I have a customer car waiting for wiring harnesses... been waiting for 3 months solid now... He will be accompanying me on my little visit... YEAR ONE is lucky I dont live near them....
I usually dont talk ill of companies... but I strongly recommend you guys listen to me on this one...
DO NOT ORDER WIRING HARNESSES FROM YEAR ONE! I have paid good money and still have no product...
so... as a result... I have decided I am going to get my harnesses one way or another - I am giving them two weeks - then I figure I will be refunded my full amount and use that $$$ to purchase wire and connectors... I will then make my own harnesses and undercut their business. I originally ordered the harnesses to save me the time and frustration of making new harnesses... however after putting up with all this bullshit I have changed my mind. If i would have know it would have taken 6 months to get a harness... I would have made my own in about a week... I have access to ALL the factory connectors and have already sourced all the Factory wires... anyone see a reason why I shouldnt do this ? I'm tired of YEAR ONE sticking it the customer - because of their MONOPOLY on factory wiring harnesses - they can charge what they want and take as long as they want. Both YEAR ONE and M&H are to blame - - -
Sorry for the rant guys but I am sick of this... but just thought someone here might care.
so what ever happen with the harness' from hell?
They are STILL not here...
That's a real bummer Rolling Thunder. You'll have to tell us how your confrontation turns out.
I'm still looking towards EZ Wiring for myself when I get the money...
Quote from: Bandit4142 on February 18, 2007, 06:30:45 PM
Here are some pics if you are interested. ;D
(http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/6008/im001529vc6.jpg)
(http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/6893/im001526dw1.jpg)
I'm bookmarking this thread. All of my wires are going to be redone. Bandit, did you have to make any new holes or cut anything on the firewall to put the Wiring Express box in? I might just go with them. It looks very clean.
Nope, I didn't have to cut anything. The only thing I did do, was remove the fresh air vent from the underside of the driverside behind the dash. This gave me a perfect spot for the fuse block. I still have some wire looming, and staightening up to do under the dash, but I think it came out pretty good for my first attempt at a wiring project like this. ;D
Excellent, thanks for the tip!
Rolling Thunder, the question is, will you be selling us all copies of the harness you made at a reasonable price? Sounds like a plan to me..
Paul
Rolling Thunder, i received my harness last friday
Quote from: Bandit72 on March 14, 2007, 12:42:43 PM
Rolling Thunder, i received my harness last friday
That must be nice... Congradulations... I still haven't even had a word of when ours might show up. let me tell you about YEAR ONE... they charged you what they charged you for the harness... I ordered mine through Ed at E-body Specialties - he gets repeat business from us and he gets the harnesses for a small discount (wholesale style)... so YEAR ONE takes their sweet time fulfilling this order because THEY AREN'T MAKING AS MUCH MONEY as they do with the private party sales.
YEAR ONE is a bastard company that is only interested in profits... they seem to have no respect for the customer and have PURE SHIT for customer service....
Hey Thunder and word on sources for factory connectors to make up a harness. I have been wanting to do that but cant find all of the correct terminals and connectors. Dont mean to hijack the thread. You can pm or email me if you like. BTW i dont buy anything from year one anymore after getting shafted similar to you.
Thanks
So I ask again, will you make harnessess for members? ???
Paul
As for making the wiring harnesses... i need to source connectors and such first - then i need to find the time to make them - in the near future i dont see me making them.
That's too bad, thought we'd found an alternative to YO... :'(
Just another update... its been two weeks sinse my last post so... ya... harness still isnt in... the customer is now getting involved at this point... he has not had ANY of his 9 calls returned.... so needless to say he is a little pissed off...
Harness still has not shown up....
Hi guys... just over read the replies... but it does look I could make some good money, or at least enough to get teh parts I wish rebuilding the harnesses you have up there. You have all the terminals and stuff to make the job up there.
If somebody pay the air bill to USA I would get your harnesses you have and rebuild :D hehehe.
We just installed a set of those harnesses into a 69 RR we're restoring at the shop I work at, but let me tell you, it took about 4 months before we got it, and I think we got it in a rush cause according to these posts in here. but we're still missing one of the harnesses, go figure.
I wish somebody could build these relatively quickly and without making you trade your first born for it.
I'm in the middle of my 'painless' install....mopar specific harness, autometer gauges...seems pretty straight forward so far.
<img src="http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/623/wiringpainlessandautomesj9.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us" /></a>
YO harness has arrived....
Quote from: Rolling_Thunder on May 09, 2007, 03:15:59 PM
YO harness has arrived....
I was wondering why it's been so cold here lately. Yep, hell has frozen over. :icon_smile_big:
Fired up the new painless harness today...soooo nice.
Headlights are nice and bright...brighter than Ive ever seen with a
stock harness. There a few things PP doesnt explain in the codebook..ie 4 speed wiring etc
but with a little work it wasnt too hard.
Quote from: umcandprops on May 19, 2007, 12:24:15 AM
Fired up the new painless harness today...soooo nice.
Headlights are nice and bright...brighter than Ive ever seen with a
stock harness. There a few things PP doesnt explain in the codebook..ie 4 speed wiring etc
but with a little work it wasnt too hard.
4-speed wiring is not covered - however it is easy... connect both of the reverse light wires to the switch on the tranny.... try to wire my transmission... i have 9 wires going to mine... reverse light switch (2 wires), neutral satety (2 wires), Electronis speedo sender (3 wires), and a VSS (2 wires) :D