Gary J. Congdon - Age 81. Born in Detroit October 11, 1935. Passed away February 6, 2017. Cherished husband for 44 years to the late Janet. Loving father of John (Brenda). Proud grandpa of Justin (Felicia) and Brandon. Dear brother of Chuck (Marlene). Friend and companion to Shirley Herman. Gary enjoyed his automotive career at Holley Carburetor as a field engineer (later to become BorgWarner) and retired after 48 years of service. He was an avid NASCAR fan and was one of the original Ramchargers back in the 50's and 60's. While at Holley, he tuned the carburetor for the 200 mph run by Buddy Baker, March 24th., 1970
Photo below shows Mr. Congdon and a pre-production sandcast Dominator main body, same as used for the 200 run.
Gary is in the group photo of the "200 mph" guys in the Supercars book.
sad news , , bet that guy had some stories to tell
RIP Mr. Congdon!
RIP. I wish I had 1/10th the hotrod knowledge that gentleman had. Prayers to his family.
Quote from: tan top on February 13, 2017, 05:55:58 AM
sad news , , bet that guy had some stories to tell
Indeed he did. The carb used for the 200 run did not have a power valve, so it's like an "on-off" switch.
He gave me all the parts to rebuilt it, jetting tips and the jet numbers used for the actual 200 run, after he final tuned it.
Did you notice the 4 hand made brass boosters soldered to the tubes? Pretty trick!
Very different than the production Nascar Dominators, which used cast boosters.
R.I.P. another great one gone.
RIP Gary!
One by one the 'OLD GUYS' are going to Nascar Heaven!
Best we get their knowledge before they go to the 'Happy Oval' in the sky.
Nice carb Greg, I bet that was a rare find... :2thumbs:
I had one like that once but lost it in a poker-game, I think??? :nana:
What with my meds and the beer, its hard to remember anymore... :P
5J
Quote from: 500Jon on February 17, 2017, 01:54:02 PM
RIP Gary!
One by one the 'OLD GUYS' are going to Nascar Heaven!
Best we get their knowledge before they go to the 'Happy Oval' in the sky.
Nice carb Greg, I bet that was a rare find... :2thumbs:
I had one like that once but lost it in a poker-game, I think??? :nana:
What with my meds and the beer, its hard to remember anymore... :P
5J
HA! The carb you "won" in that same poker game was once owned by Larry Rathgeb! He received it as a retirement gift from Holley! I have the wood plaque it was mounted on. Hmm, perhaps I should sent it along?
(if you don't plan to use the carb!!)
:cheers:
Quote from: 500Jon on February 17, 2017, 01:54:02 PM
RIP Gary!
One by one the 'OLD GUYS' are going to Nascar Heaven!
Best we get their knowledge before they go to the 'Happy Oval' in the sky.
OK, I admit I'm not an expert, and not disrespectfully asked, but what made this carburetor so special? I know it was able to help the engine get the car to 200 mph, the first time that had been done, and so in that respect it is special, but was it a design modification, something special with the jetting, or something else?
I read odcics2's comments
Quote from: odcics2 on February 13, 2017, 07:19:26 PM
Did you notice the 4 hand made brass boosters soldered to the tubes? Pretty trick! Very different than the production Nascar Dominators, which used cast boosters.
But I'm not really sure how or why that helped, or if that was the major component to this carburetor's improved performance.
Hi Ksquare,
These sandcasts are Holleys first made Dominators.
They were handmade for Ford and Chrysler engines in 1969.
Seems the Ford guys are taking the credit for having them made, but they were also made for the HEMI Wingcars too.
Instead of running two four barrels, Holley made bigger and bigger Dominators so you could run a single carb.
They are pre-production and made to order, so super RARE!!! :2thumbs:
WoW Greg, I don't think I knew that about the Domi you sent me!
Must get better meds, if I can remember where the Doctor lives???
Must stop playing poker too...LOL... :coolgleamA:
Quote from: 500Jon on February 19, 2017, 07:37:21 AM
These sandcasts are Holleys first made Dominators.
They were handmade for Ford and Chrysler engines in 1969.
Seems the Ford guys are taking the credit for having them made, but they were also made for the HEMI Wingcars too
Development of the Dominator was funded by Ford. They had exclusive use of the carb for a short period of time.
To add to 500Jon's comments, the carb was originally designed for the Boss 429 engine and rated at 1100 CFM in 1969. Ford had exclusive use for 6 months before Chrysler could use it. Oddly enough, the carb ran better on a 426 when sleeved down to 950. The 426 hemi loss of mid range torque as not offset enough by the increase in top end power, so, for an entire lap, the car was slower. A case where bigger is not better. Port velocities!!
For 1970, Nascar ruled ALL Dominators, sandcast or production, were sleeved down to 950 CFM. The 200 run carb was a 950 CFM unit. Mr. Congdon confirmed that for me. The "one 4 bbl. rule" was still in effect and Nascar never let them run 2 carbs again legally.
When I said "special", part of that was because it was the early (hard to find) sand casting and the other part is that I have photos of it on the 200 MPH engine prior to being installed in the #88 at the Chrysler Engineering Huntsville race shop. Without documentation, all you have is hearsay.
Many thanx for the info updates on the Holley 'Sandcast' Greg and Aero.
The one I had and lost in 'arm-wrestling match with Arnie' did have the restrictor rings.
Great for 200mph+ runs but a bitch to set up for 440 yarding... :D
I tried my best to run it on my 448 cube drag engine without much joy.
It was an 'ALL or NOTHING' kinda deal with the Sandcast!
I had much better luck with my Street Domi and that ran well for me!!! :rofl:
Agreed, all or none because there is no power valve! 'ON-OFF" switch!! :cheers:
I found the correct Lemans fuel bowls for it. :2thumbs:
RIP
I find the picture of Gary 'quite haunting' for me!
He looks very well and in fine shape.
I know 81 is a good age, but some of us 'old Mopar' Guys are getting on in years too...
I will be out in the GARAGE tomorrow doing something on my 500!!! :2thumbs:
Time and Tide wait for no Moparman... :pity:
500Jon - Keep a sharp eye for the other 'small' sandcast accel pump arm, while in your garage!
Gary looked while I was at his place and he didn't have any... So, I still need one. :cheers:
Quote from: odcics2 on February 19, 2017, 08:44:36 AM
Oddly enough, the carb ran better on a 426 when sleeved down to 950. The 426 hemi loss of mid range torque as not offset enough by the increase in top end power, so, for an entire lap, the car was slower. A case where bigger is not better. Port velocities!!
For 1970, Nascar ruled ALL Dominators, sandcast or production, were sleeved down to 950 CFM. The 200 run carb was a 950 CFM unit. Mr. Congdon confirmed that for me. The "one 4 bbl. rule" was still in effect and Nascar never let them run 2 carbs again legally.
Thank you to both odcics2 and 500Jon, the history is so interesting. What I love about it is that there is so much math and physics put into the design and the real-world results, such that as odcics2 said "bigger is not better."
It is also something that I think about that here was somebody who was in outward appearance just an ordinary guy out in his garage as the photo shows, but who was involved in this incredible and historic project, with as has been stated, such a huge amount of knowledge.
Quote from: 500Jon on February 19, 2017, 07:37:21 AM
They were handmade for Ford and Chrysler engines in 1969.
Seems the Ford guys are taking the credit for having them made, but they were also made for the HEMI Wingcars too.
Instead of running two four barrels, Holley made bigger and bigger Dominators so you could run a single carb.
So is it but for the Nascar rule two four barrels would have been the better choice? Is one barrel per cylinder the optimum design, and then would it help if the intake manifold carried this design from the carb to the cylinder, somewhat like the Ramcharger setup in the early 1960s?
The Holley dual quad set up, legal on a Nascar MoPar in 1968 only, used vacuum diaphragm secondaries. So, an IR set up was out of the question. Also a problem of hood clearance. And, the bathtub intake was a great manifold for mid range torque off the corners being over 100% volumetric efficient. A few guys in fact used a bathtub WITH a staggered dual set up in 68. Most used a marine dual quad intake. Again- they got higher HP, but lost some torque. (nothing is free)
George Wallace said that dual quads were good for 35-45 HP over the previous single 4 set up.
The Dominator was better than the earlier single 4 bbl. but I don't know the HP number increase for a fact.
I found another accel pump arm I required for the 200 mph carb.
For what it's worth, the 200 mph engine with the sandcast dominator was put into the Woodward Garage SuperBird
and ran 2.5 mph slower that it did in the 88. That rear glass design on the Bird was a compromise and not as slick as the 500-Daytona backlight.
Quote from: odcics2 on October 23, 2019, 09:15:58 AM
I found another accel pump arm I required for the 200 mph carb.
For what it's worth, the 200 mph engine with the sandcast dominator was put into the Woodward Garage SuperBird
and ran 2.5 mph slower that it did in the 88. That rear glass design on the Bird was a compromise and not as slick as the 500-Daytona backlight.
I remember this thread, extremely interesting, and it shows that in two years of looking apparently even the rarest items might be found.
For the Superbird, I thought the vinyl roof also had a noticeable effect on the cd and thus top speed. If I remember, I thought it took three or four more horsepower to overcome the drag at close to 200 mph, which doesn't sound like a lot but of course really is.
That vinyl roof is one reason I think the Daytonas look so much better than the Superbird. Not to slight the Superbird of course, their little decal and of course the horn was much better.
:coolgleamA: :popcrn:
Quote from: ksquared on October 23, 2019, 02:03:02 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on October 23, 2019, 09:15:58 AM
I found another accel pump arm I required for the 200 mph carb.
For what it's worth, the 200 mph engine with the sandcast dominator was put into the Woodward Garage SuperBird
and ran 2.5 mph slower that it did in the 88. That rear glass design on the Bird was a compromise and not as slick as the 500-Daytona backlight.
I remember this thread, extremely interesting, and it shows that in two years of looking apparently even the rarest items might be found.
For the Superbird, I thought the vinyl roof also had a noticeable effect on the cd and thus top speed. If I remember, I thought it took three or four more horsepower to overcome the drag at close to 200 mph, which doesn't sound like a lot but of course really is.
That vinyl roof is one reason I think the Daytonas look so much better than the Superbird. Not to slight the Superbird of course, their little decal and of course the horn was much better.
Actually, found the accel arm a while back, but happened to run across this thread... Thought I'd post it.
Talking race Birds, not street cars with the vinyl top. :yesnod:
About 15 additional HP for another mile per hour at 200.
Not quite the case......The amount of horse power required to go faster at those sort of stuff is exponential. So if takes a car an additional 15 HP to get from 195 to 196 mph, it might take and extra 18 to get from 196 to 197 and an extra 22 to go from 197 to 198......with the extras power needed going up for each step as the speeds get higher. That's why there are a few modern street supercars that hit 200 with around 700 horse....but it takes a 1000 horse Veyron to hit 255 and another 300 plus horses in its sister car, the Chiron, to crack just 22 mph more (277mph in a street legal fully silenced car!). Drag is killer at those speeds.