DodgeCharger.com Forum

Mopar Garage => Engine, Transmission, Rearend, & Exhaust => Topic started by: mally69 on October 08, 2008, 12:08:30 AM

Title: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: mally69 on October 08, 2008, 12:08:30 AM
If you bought a set of assembled stealth heads you need to STOP RIGHT NOW and look at your locks and retainers. I just happend to pull my valve covers off mine and noticed that the locks are sinking in the retainers big time. This will eventually cuase a dropped valve. You need to upgrade to better locks and retainers which has been discussed on here before. I have about 1200 miles on my heads.  :eyes: ::) :eyes: ::)
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Steve P. on October 08, 2008, 12:16:06 AM
Sheesh... Mally, you are NOT having any kind of luck with those heads.. Have you pulled any retainers yet??
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: firefighter3931 on October 08, 2008, 07:18:22 AM
This one is worth a sticky !  :yesnod:

Thanks for the "heads up" Mally....no pun intended.  :D




Ron
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: mally69 on October 08, 2008, 08:01:00 AM
Quote from: Steve P. on October 08, 2008, 12:16:06 AM
Sheesh... Mally, you are NOT having any kind of luck with those heads.. Have you pulled any retainers yet??

Nope im so mad that I have given up for the year. Winter is coming here in about 1 1/2 months so I figured I might as well start winter storage early. I haven't done anything but put the valve cover over top of the rockers and walk away for a while cause thats going to be a big job to change all those.

Quote from: firefighter3931 on October 08, 2008, 07:18:22 AM
This one is worth a sticky ! :yesnod:

Thanks for the "heads up" Mally....no pun intended. :D




Ron


None taken  :2thumbs:   I shouild have just bought a set of indy heads for this also.
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Steve P. on October 08, 2008, 11:24:25 AM
Sorry that you are having such issues with these heads.. I know that POURING feeling very well myself. Just be very happy that you caught this before any MORE real damage to the motor. Shoot some pics before you put this MAD MACHINE away.

Keep in mind that many people read these posts and they need all of our help and experience to make their best decisions. I know you know this and have always done a great job with info. and pics. We learn from OUR and OTHERS mistakes and problems.  I just think you have been beaten hard with these heads.. Very sorry for that.  Just keep fighting buddy. You've done a great job with your cars and have helped many.


:cheers:
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: my73charger on October 08, 2008, 12:42:56 PM
Thanks for the tip Mally.  I am going to pull my covers off and take a good look.  I plan to pull the heads this winter and take them down for work anyway so I guess I might just as well get started.
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: six-tee-nine on October 08, 2008, 01:05:16 PM
Quote from: mally69 on October 08, 2008, 08:01:00 AM


None taken  :2thumbs:   I shouild have just bought a set of indy heads for this also.


I think I'm gonna listen to that advise and do so instead of leaning towards them Stealths.

Glad you found out in time instead of finding it out the hard way and ending up with a ruined engine :yesnod:
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: mally69 on October 08, 2008, 01:26:22 PM
I will post up some pics as soon as i can. I have had entirtely to much bad luck with these heads.  I know I seen it in here before some place but, what 10 degree locks and retainers will be a perfect combo using the springs that came on the stealth heads. :icon_smile_question:
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: dstryr on October 08, 2008, 02:21:29 PM
I think these are the options:


Comp Cams 7 degree locks 601-16 and retainers 782-16
Comp Cams 10 degree locks 613-16 and retainers 741-16


Here is a link to their on-line catalog pages:

Locks:http://compcams.com/technical/Catalogs/106-07/310-311.pdf

Retainers:http://compcams.com/technical/Catalogs/106-07/309.pdf




Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: RD on October 09, 2008, 09:26:44 AM
i think it was here that you may have saw this:

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,47713.0.html

I guess me and my friends warning wasnt good enough for a sticky?
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: my73charger on October 09, 2008, 09:32:59 AM
Quote from: dstryr on October 08, 2008, 02:21:29 PM
I think these are the options:


Comp Cams 7 degree locks 601-16 and retainers 782-16
Comp Cams 10 degree locks 613-16 and retainers 741-16


Here is a link to their on-line catalog pages:

Locks:http://compcams.com/technical/Catalogs/106-07/310-311.pdf

Retainers:http://compcams.com/technical/Catalogs/106-07/309.pdf



What will a full set of 10 degree locks and retainers cost me?
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: metallicareload99 on October 09, 2008, 12:24:33 PM
Quote from: my73charger on October 09, 2008, 09:32:59 AM


What will a full set of 10 degree locks and retainers cost me?

Less than $100 shipped if I recall

I got:

Locks / Keepers
CCA-611-16
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CCA%2D611%2D16&FROM=MG

Retainers
CCA-741-16
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CCA%2D741%2D16&FROM=MG


All of it 10 degree.  If possible, I think it has been suggested to get locks and/or retainers that are set up so that a little bit more of the valve stem is showing compared to as shipped from 440 Source.  Not sure if that Comp Cams set up will do that, and it might not be too critical.  I think the important thing is to have good hardware keeping those valves and spring heights where they are supposed to be
   :drive:
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: my73charger on October 09, 2008, 01:29:03 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: firefighter3931 on October 09, 2008, 10:09:31 PM
Quote from: RD on October 09, 2008, 09:26:44 AM

I guess me and my friends warning wasnt good enough for a sticky?



Sure it was Jamey, but that was the first dropped valve issue we've seen here on the board. Not wanting to be an alarmist it wasn't warrented at that time but this appears to be more than an isolated incident....hence the sticky.

Thanks for providing the link.  :2thumbs:


Look guys, the Stealth heads are descent but have their inherent weaknesses....just like Edelbrock, Mopar Performance and yes Indy.  :yesnod:

Address those issues and you can run these heads with confidence.  :yesnod:



Ron
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: my73charger on October 10, 2008, 10:12:30 AM
Hi Ron,

What do you think of the comp locks and retainers above?  I am probably going to order them up next week.  THe heads are definitely coming off this winter to be ported and polished as well, but I want to get the new hardware on them asap.

Thanks Ron,

Tim
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: dstryr on October 10, 2008, 11:21:07 AM
I bought a set of the 440Source heads in February and had planned to add the 10* locks & retainers.  The heads are going out today to be checked have a valve job done, and port work and they will install the Comp parts for me when they reassemble them.  They will go on a .030over 440 with a 440Source 512 rotating assembly, harland-sharp roller rockers, and an XS290S cam with EDM lifters.

:2thumbs: to everyone  for sharing all the info on these stroker builds.  You guys who have built stroker motors and posted your combos and parts lists, and you guys with the experience and advice have been a world of help for me because I am having a motor built for my Road Runner and doing this is a first for me in 22 years of owning muscle cars.   I haven't asked any questions because while I've been working on what I want to do I find most of the information I need in these stroker threads.


 
It doesn't seem like moparts is a swear word around here ;) so here is a quote from the tech archives I read this morning while looking for some Edelbrock flow numbers. This is back from 2002:




IMO, HARDENED (like the Comps) 7 degree locks are fine for most apps, although I've used 10 degrees and see no adverse effects either way. I have seen a few three groove locks 7 degree pull through. Valve weight spring load and how the motor is slung have the biggest bearing on how the valvetrain holds up. Give me two heads, one off a stick and one off an automatic with the same valvetrain and you can tell the stick car just by the way the valves come out.
Most aftermarket complete heads use cheap stamped locks, they get tossed right along with the as delivered valve job. A good single groove hardened lock and matching retainer, whether 7 or 10 degrees is money well spent.
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: firefighter3931 on October 10, 2008, 11:48:50 AM
Quote from: my73charger on October 10, 2008, 10:12:30 AM
Hi Ron,

What do you think of the comp locks and retainers above?  I am probably going to order them up next week.  THe heads are definitely coming off this winter to be ported and polished as well, but I want to get the new hardware on them asap.

Thanks Ron,

Tim


Tim, those locks and retainers are fine.....no problem with the stock stealth valvesprings/valves.  :2thumbs:



Ron
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: firefighter3931 on October 10, 2008, 12:16:59 PM
Quote from: dstryr on October 10, 2008, 11:21:07 AM


 
It doesn't seem like moparts is a swear word around here ;) so here is a quote from the tech archives I read this morning while looking for some Edelbrock flow numbers. This is back from 2002:




IMO, HARDENED (like the Comps) 7 degree locks are fine for most apps, although I've used 10 degrees and see no adverse effects either way. I have seen a few three groove locks 7 degree pull through. Valve weight spring load and how the motor is slung have the biggest bearing on how the valvetrain holds up. Give me two heads, one off a stick and one off an automatic with the same valvetrain and you can tell the stick car just by the way the valves come out.
Most aftermarket complete heads use cheap stamped locks, they get tossed right along with the as delivered valve job. A good single groove hardened lock and matching retainer, whether 7 or 10 degrees is money well spent.



We have nothing against Moparts here....many of my friends are members on both boards.  :yesnod:  Sure there are some "testy" characters over there but by and large the tech advice is pretty sound in the "race" section.  :2thumbs:


The comment regarding the cheap stamped locks is sometimes true...but not allways. For instance ; my early production E-Heads came with good hardware....machined (not stamped) locks and CM retainers which are fine for my .585 lift solid cam. Fwiw those are 7* locks and retainers as well....and i have no worries. As long as the retainer and lock fit properly together and the material is strong and well machined there should never be any issues. A 10* lock/retainer can fail as easily as a 7* setup if things aren't "right".  ;)


Good luck with your build....do your homework and it will turn out right. It allready sounds like your pre-planning is moving this build in the right direction.  :2thumbs:



Ron
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: frederick on October 12, 2008, 07:06:09 AM
Quote from: metallicareload99 on October 09, 2008, 12:24:33 PM
All of it 10 degree.  If possible, I think it has been suggested to get locks and/or retainers that are set up so that a little bit more of the valve stem is showing compared to as shipped from 440 Source.  Not sure if that Comp Cams set up will do that, and it might not be too critical.  I think the important thing is to have good hardware keeping those valves and spring heights where they are supposed to be

I also fitted the comp cams 10 degrees retainers and locks.
But I used these and noticed the compressed height increased by about 0.040", so I am going to get shims under the springs to compensate.
CCA-613-16 (locks)
CCA-748-16 (retainers)
I'm going to measure the actual compressed spring force with the shims, will let you know the results when I have them.

Frederick
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Chatt69chgr on October 13, 2008, 08:12:29 AM
That would put the retainer .040 inch closer to the underside of the rocker.  What rocker are you using and what is the actual distance in thousandths of an inch to the underside of the rocker from the outer edge of the new retainer? 
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: frederick on October 14, 2008, 01:18:52 PM
Quote from: Chatt69chgr on October 13, 2008, 08:12:29 AM
That would put the retainer .040 inch closer to the underside of the rocker.  What rocker are you using and what is the actual distance in thousandths of an inch to the underside of the rocker from the outer edge of the new retainer? 
I have checked quickly by eye with the original stamped rockers and some were very close <0.020" while some of them had at least 0.080" clearance.
I haven't got access to the heads at the moment because they are at the machinist for milling, but if possible I will check more accurately this weekend.
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: dstryr on October 14, 2008, 04:29:58 PM
Quote from: firefighter3931 on October 10, 2008, 12:16:59 PM




Good luck with your build....do your homework and it will turn out right. It allready sounds like your pre-planning is moving this build in the right direction.  :2thumbs:



Ron


Thanks, Ron

That  moparts remark was tongue-in-cheek because I don't know many guys on this site. 

The ongoing stroker threads here have been consistent in staying on topic and providing lots of build details which made it easier for me to choose parts and plan this out. :cheers: 

I'll have my heads back in a week or so and will post flow #s with the guy's bench info from before and after.  He will also install the comp 10* retainers and locks.  If I can still swing it this year I'll have the engine dyno'd at the same shop that is doing the heads before it goes in the car and give the results and combination details as well.  Shoot, even if it sucks I'll tell ya' that, too! ;D

Frank
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: firefighter3931 on October 14, 2008, 08:38:26 PM
Thanks, Frank.....looking forward to seeing some flow numbers from your shop.  :2thumbs:

The XS290S is an excellent cam....you'll luv it in that combo !  :icon_smile_big:

Hopefully you can have it dynoed and we can archive the results for future reference.  :yesnod:

Quote from: dstryr on October 14, 2008, 04:29:58 PM

Thanks, Ron

The ongoing stroker threads here have been consistent in staying on topic and providing lots of build details which made it easier for me to choose parts and plan this out. :cheers: 



Glad to hear our proven combo's forum has been of some help. That was my hope in having this sub forum established....No BS results without the retoric about parts selection.  :yesnod:


Keep us up to speed on your progress, please.



Ron
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Belgium R/T -68 on October 16, 2008, 02:49:28 AM
Should I do this rebuild on my stealths even if I don't see anything suspicius (when arriving)? Should I contact 440source for correct parts or don't they acknowledge the problem?
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Rubberduck on October 16, 2008, 03:44:34 AM
Quote from: frederick on October 12, 2008, 07:06:09 AM


I also fitted the comp cams 10 degrees retainers and locks.
But I used these and noticed the compressed height increased by about 0.040", so I am going to get shims under the springs to compensate.
CCA-613-16 (locks)
CCA-748-16 (retainers)
I'm going to measure the actual compressed spring force with the shims, will let you know the results when I have them.

Frederick


So, what are the right retainers for the stealth heads?

Frederick says he uses CCA-748-16 retainers.
Others use                 CCA-741-16 retainers.

The only difference is Inside Diameter of Inner Spring and Outside Diameter of Middle Spring

here is a link to compare both: http://store.summitracing.com/compare.asp?Ntt=cca-741-16&N=700+0&Ntk=KeywordSearch


Mario
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: frederick on October 16, 2008, 09:15:59 AM
If you're using the 440source valve springs it doesn't matter which retainer you use as long as it is for valve springs with an outer diameter of 1.550".

Of the 10degree compcam retainers you can use any of the following:
cca-748-16
cca-741-16
cca-746-16
cca-749-16
All of these are for 1.500"-1.550" valve springs.
http://www.compcams.com/technical/Catalogs/106-07/308-309.pdf

The difference between these is the diameter for second or even third spring which you are obviously not using with single 440 source springs.
If you are going to different (dual) springs you need matching retainers, of course.

You have to use matching 10degree locks, preferably of the same manufacturer as the retainers to avoid any mismatching between them.
Of the 10degree compcam items you can use the following:
cca-611-16 With Lash Cap Recess
cca-613-16 Without Recess for Lash Cap
These are both for the 440source  11/32" valve stems.
http://www.compcams.com/technical/Catalogs/106-07/310-311.pdf

Because of the increase in valve spring height and decrease in retainer to rocker clearence I noticed, I might go to cca-630-16.
They have a -0.050 install  height.
But I will first check the valve pressure and clearence exactly, hopefully this weekend.

Frederick

ps The reason I went for the CCA-748-16 retainers is that the diameter for the second valve is the smallest of the range, and so possibly the lightest.
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: my73charger on October 17, 2008, 07:54:30 AM
I pulled my valve covers and rocker assemblies off last night.  The only thing I noticed is that one of the retainers is slightly shiney along the very edge where it looks to have rubbed very slightly on that rocker arm.  When I look at the rocker arm itself you really couldn't see much of a rub mark.  Other than that, everything looked really good.  I am going to replace the retainers and locks anyway but now I am rethinking the 7* versus 10* after reading the remarks above.  Is this going to change any clearances or tolerances if I go to a 10* set?  Does anyone know if these heads have a 2 groove valve stem?  I plan on going with the steel Comp goodies but given that I only race the car once or twice a year I am not sure how to proceed.  Oh yeah, my cam is the Comp cam - Duration 292/292, Lift .501/.501.
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: frederick on October 17, 2008, 09:41:24 AM
The 440source heads come with valves that have a single groove valve stem.
http://www.440source.com/heads.htm
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: my73charger on October 18, 2008, 11:04:30 AM
So will changing to the 10* comp retainers and locks require anything further on these heads?
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Musicman on October 20, 2008, 09:56:39 PM
There is a thread over at Moparts concerning this topic, in which Brandon pretty much tells it like it is.


http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4752924&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Steve P. on October 20, 2008, 11:29:26 PM
Though I can't stand the bickering over there, I have to say that it was a good read. Everyone has an opinion. I have never seen one of their heads, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn once and I also have a bit of experience with building motors and DEALER and my own shops...

Brandon made a big point about CHECKING THESE PARTS and MEASURING EVERYTHING.  We have many very experienced engine builders and machinists here on this site that will tell you EXACTLY this. I will take it a step further and tell you that I worked for a dealer for a short period of time. (Something I am not proud of). I cannot tell you how often I had BAD PARTS from OUR factories. One of the big ones I remember was a large run of bad injector pumps on the diesels. Porous wheels on Corvette's and Oldsmobile's. Split/cracked AC lines both in the cars and new in the bags.   A huge run of bad fuel pumps in S-10 pick ups.   TONS of leaky door seals on just about every model.   WOW, I was only going to give one example!!

My point is simple. Nothing is perfect. Especially when it is being mass produced.. Anyone ever heard of CORE SHIFT?? The fact is that quality control everywhere is in a slump.

It sucks that anyone had trouble with these heads or any other parts. Truly. I am not standing up so much for 440 Source as I am trying to make people think twice before they skip a step over a few bucks or time to read on how to check things out..  Sometimes we can't check something out on our own. That's when you take it to your machine shop. We can't own every tool or have the time to read everything out there..  Hell, I haven't seen my car in months!!  I am just saying that you can have trouble with anything and the more of each thing that is made the more you are going to hear about problems..

I just had to buy YET ANOTHER coffee maker.  Damned crappy switch.......

Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: ky509 on October 24, 2008, 03:18:00 PM
I have a S Bee I`m restoring and will be building a 440 for it. After deciding on how I was going to use it and how I wanted to build it, a set of aluminum heads were definitely going to be part of the make up. I had never heard of 440 source until that time, I guess about a year and a half ago and about the time was when they put out their first run of alum. heads. I also want to mention, I`m an old hot rodder and engine builder from way back, but, I have been out of the performance end of it for a little over 20 years, so I`m also doing some catch up on all the new technology, parts and suppliers on the market.
Any how, I start researching all the different manufacturers of mopar aluminum heads that I think are within my price range. I come up with the following possibilities. Eddys- Pro Comp- indys or 440 source. I was very interested in finding out what country their stuff was manufactured in. But, while I was tracking down country's of origin I start coming across forums where they are discussing all the different heads and I start finding some disturbing entries that people were leaving about quality problems they were having and especially about the stealth heads. Mind you, I had already priced the 4 contenders heads and 440 source had their competition  blown away on pricing. But I understand any after market part must be checked for compatibility and quality and some if not all may need some tweeking.  But how much tweeking does one want to get into? I found one forum that had photos of the stealth heads showing bad retainers and or split locks, they also had a photo of a stealth head whereas the head gasket was protruding into the combustion chamber. The retainers and locks I could live with, but the head gasket problem concerned me. Then I started thinking that if 440 source were selling heads with all these obvious problems, had they checked their heads for thickness consistency's and porosity of the aluminum being used? So I called um up to ask the questions. Well its been a few months since I called them and do not recall exactly how the conversation went, But, I do recall having the feeling that I was getting a little bit of a snow job. I can`t say the person I was talking to was being dishonest but it was like they were not telling me every thing they did know about the problems they were having with the heads. But, I also know at that time 440 source was being hammered by some people on a couple of the web sites, and by the type of technical questions I was asking, the person may have thought I was trying to set them up or something and then use it to slam them on one of those sites. Well I had no intention's of doing that nor would I ever do it to any one unless they shafted me first. I really felt they were having a bunch of problems with those heads, but Like any business they were working on the problems as best they could. So I made the decision at that time that seeing as how I was in no hurry I would wait for a while and give them a chance to perfect the product.

I still have not purchased anyones heads as of yet. In fact I still have a couple months before I actually have to have my engine done. SO, I have been waiting for 440 source to get their heads straightened out. I would love to buy an American made set of heads, but not for the difference of 500.00 and still have to go through then just like I`ll have to go through  the stealth heads. I have spent a lot of time price shopping mopar parts on the web and I tell you this, 440 source should be commended for their efforts in producing affordable merchandise for our mopars. I have felt for years that the some of the suppliers have been laying us in the weeds with their prices and when you find some one working as hard as 440 source is working to hold our costs down, then I want to support them if I can. Don`t get me wrong, I admire Vic Edelbrock as well for building his stuff in America, but, for me to buy the Eddy's for the extra $$$ they will cost me VIC would have to guarantee me that the Eddy's are bolt on`s out of the box and I need not spend another $ on um or have to worry about looking for quality problems, which I know will never happen.


PS

If any one from procomp tells you their heads are out of Australia, say yes I know they do leave one of the docks in Australia, but aren't`t they actually manufactured in INDIA. I have had two people tell me they were from Australia and two tell me they were from India.  My opinion is they are being manufactured in India, but pass through a port in Australia in route to the USA, so some of the suppliers figure Australia sounds better than India and they are still skirting on the truth. I ask one fellow that said Australia to check it out because I heard India, and he said he would and would get back with me, I have not heard from him,lol.



Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: john108 on October 24, 2008, 06:42:45 PM
ky509 ---  I have been buying parts slowly for the last 5+ months for my 440.  I constantly check local adds and boards.  I have been looking for heads and finally found the 60929 e-heads, brand spankin new.  Someone who bought them and had no more use for them.  You may find the same thing near you.  Watching, waiting, and driving 30 miles saved me $400.
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Silver R/T on October 25, 2008, 12:16:38 PM
this is kinda off-topic but has anyone do a dyno with these heads just to see how much power you get with them straight out of box?
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: RD on October 25, 2008, 03:39:31 PM
Quote from: Musicman on October 20, 2008, 09:56:39 PM
There is a thread over at Moparts concerning this topic, in which Brandon pretty much tells it like it is.


http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4752924&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

yeah i really enjoyed the part where he tells his customers like it is by calling them dumb:

QuoteIn plain english, this means "If you're dumb enough to slap a bunch of parts together in a performance engine without checking anything, don't expect us to bail you out once it turns into a grenade."

especially since his website says this:

QuoteClearanced for large diameter valve springs, our Stealth heads use factory type rocker arms and stock diameter shafts, so no special "high-dollar" offset rockers are required. Any rockers that work on a stock Mopar head will work on our heads. This includes roller rockers, or even stock type stamped steel rockers...

berate the people that pay you 900 dollars and help make your lifestyle what it is... real classy.  You can talk bad all you want where they can't hear you.. fine.. but in a forum where thousands of people read such threads.. especially those that bought products from him... not smart in my book.

You know.. he is calling all those people who bought products from him in the past who bolted stuff right on DUMB too.. even though they may not have problems with his products.  So, he is just not calling the people who have had problems dumb.. he is calling all of them dumb.

think about it?
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Steve P. on October 25, 2008, 04:12:23 PM
I don't exactly agree. Any and all high performance and aftermarket parts must be checked. As I said above, I came across MANY bad parts directly from the BIG THREE that were supposed to be factory replacement that had issues..  I think more of what you are reading is a company that is tired of being bashed for trying to do good..

I have heard the INDY stories from hell as well.. Is it different for them because they are INDY?? The Indy COMPLETE motor I am referring to was in the tens of thousands and is owned by a member here...

How about a ARRUZZA HEMI??

Or the POS Eddy carbs????? 

Or the Eddy heads with tight guides??

Here is a company selling a product that everyone building an can save a bunch of money and keep straight plugs and the look of an iron head. YES. Some problems have come up as do with 99% of new products. Could all of this been handled differently, MAYBE,, SURE.. Can these heads work for a huge amount of us YES...

Mally points out the troubles with these heads. Many including Firefighter have gone over and over this. I would be pissed if I had these troubles too. I would be more pissed at ME for not double checking everything.....

My  :Twocents:
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: FJ571440B on October 25, 2008, 04:18:06 PM
A bit deep,but necessary, I thought about it,and its good logic.  :scratchchin:  Makes perfect sense!
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: FJ571440B on October 25, 2008, 04:22:46 PM
Steve P's logic makes just as much sense though.....,if you think about it.
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: dstryr on October 25, 2008, 04:45:32 PM
So retainers (maybe)should be replaced, guides need checked, and gaskets overhang.   First 2 are easy fixes.

How much overhang into the chamber is too much?  Any amount?  If a gasket does overhang in the chamber say 1/32" but not the cylinder bore is that still going to cause problems? 
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Steve P. on October 25, 2008, 07:41:55 PM
They sell a ROL head gasket that is perfect for it..
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: RD on October 25, 2008, 09:43:23 PM
Quote from: Steve P. on October 25, 2008, 04:12:23 PM
I don't exactly agree. Any and all high performance and aftermarket parts must be checked. As I said above, I came across MANY bad parts directly from the BIG THREE that were supposed to be factory replacement that had issues..  I think more of what you are reading is a company that is tired of being bashed for trying to do good..

I have heard the INDY stories from hell as well.. Is it different for them because they are INDY?? The Indy COMPLETE motor I am referring to was in the tens of thousands and is owned by a member here...

How about a ARRUZZA HEMI??

Or the POS Eddy carbs????? 

Or the Eddy heads with tight guides??

Here is a company selling a product that everyone building an can save a bunch of money and keep straight plugs and the look of an iron head. YES. Some problems have come up as do with 99% of new products. Could all of this been handled differently, MAYBE,, SURE.. Can these heads work for a huge amount of us YES...

Mally points out the troubles with these heads. Many including Firefighter have gone over and over this. I would be pissed if I had these troubles too. I would be more pissed at ME for not double checking everything.....

My  :Twocents:

i am not differentiating between any of the aluminum head producers.. i am merely pointing out the fact that the owner of this business called his customers dumb, in a public forum, where thousands could read.  If anything that was dumb.

i am only focusing on this issue not because it has affected me personally, i dont have a set of heads from 440source, but a friend of mine does (see other thread).  i am not saying the heads are crap and they cannot perform; i am not saying that 440source sells terrible equipment; i am not dogging on 440source because they filled a need in a market that is much needed; i am not berating 440source for doing what they do commercially by providing products for a specific enthusiast...

I am stating that if you advertise something which allows others to consider the product ready available and a bolt-on and go part (for a non-performance build) and the consumer does as such... and then you call that same consumer DUMB (the same consumer who spent close $1000 for heads and shipping)... then that is just screwed up in my eyes.  Not just that.. every customer who has bought products and just bolted them on from the company.

Granted, my friend should have checked those clearances, but even if he did and they spec'd good, the locks had an issue where the likelihood of this happening was great.  Then add onto the fact that such a thing is not expected, my question is this:  would you have known they were going to fail? 

No one would have... so to leave a company blameless for something they knew about, but expected the consumer to contact them about, even though the consumer didnt know the issue existed until after the damage has been caused is a bunch of horseshit imo.  I have seen toys go on recall for lesser things.

Just because 440source does a great job of filling a niche in the market, does not leave them any less accountable for their products.  I would say the same for all the manufacturers of automotive products (or any product for that matter).

I think this glorification of a company for their lower prices has caused rose-colored glasses to fall upon certain members of this board.  If this happened to you.. I wonder if you all would be singing the same tune?  Even if you did check the "clearances" and they proved to be in good shape. 

My friend had no issues and most of his clearances on his valvetrain were in great shape.. it was just 2 of them that caused his catastrophic failure (and a couple more that were questionable).  If that is due to bad locks, and the company knew about it...then they are responsible for rectifying the situation.

Like telling bayer that because their aspirin was laced with cyanide when i took it, its not their fault.. yeah the probability of me having catastrophic failure was great... and they knew about.. but it was still my responsibility because I am the consumer.  Should I have still contacted them after the fact, or would it have been the ethical thing to do to contact each consumer who may have purchased the product in some fashion?

Sorry.. but that argument is BS and so are some of the ones I am reading.

Anyway, I am done with this topic, because obviously.. all of those who have put engines together have always done everything by the book and have never forgot any step along the way.  And because we live in a perfect world where we know everything and those that do not follow by disclosures are "DUMB" then I guess this is a moot point.  Let alone, should we dare to fathom this concept, the company who produces certain products should actually be held accountable for their products in success and failure NO MATTER HOW MUCH THE DAMN THING COSTS.

I am not saying you all do, but it seems like some people have their heads up brandon's ass imo.  I just wonder if his parts are covered by a disclosure statement too?


*edit*
and on that i sign of from this topic
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: dstryr on October 25, 2008, 09:45:04 PM
Thanks, Steve

The shop doing the porting and bowl blending says the ROL gasket overhangs on a couple of chambers.    440Source says they don't overhang and the shop says they do.:shruggy:  Ken @ 440Source says they have not changed the chamber casting and they've never had an overhang problem with the ROLs.  The shop has a great reputation but they're 70 miles away so I can't just run over and have a look and they aren't trying to sell me anything.  They just want to get the heads done and shipped back..  I'll guess I'll let Ken explain it to the shop.   

Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: firefighter3931 on October 25, 2008, 10:38:00 PM
Quote from: dstryr on October 25, 2008, 04:45:32 PM

If a gasket does overhang in the chamber say 1/32" but not the cylinder bore is that still going to cause problems? 



I would say no.....1/32 of the fire ring is not a huge amount or enough to be concerned about on a mild pump gas type build. On a high compression 13:1 race engine my opinion might be a little different.  :Twocents:



Ron
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Steve P. on October 25, 2008, 11:47:38 PM
RD, I do not disagree with most of what you have said. As I said before thing could have been handled differently. I have no dog in this fight. Matter of fact I have been on the phone with 440 Source myself on a few occasions about problems.. 

All I am trying to make everyone understand is that I DON'T CARE if they say it is READY TO RUN..  I would never just run a carb right out of the box. I would make certain checks before ever bolting it on. Then once it passes my inspection I will run it and put it through the paces.

Of course it is not a perfect World and we should not expect it to be. I guess maybe I am just cynical with these things as I have seen more of it than I care to and just expect problems...

My point to this is that we CHECK everything before having problems. We know that problems can and do exist.  Mally brought this to the surface to save the next guy. He has not had very good luck with his 440 Source products and I would not blame him for never using their stuff again. This happens with EVERY company out there.  Did everyone stop buying gas and oil from MOBILE after the MOBILE GRAPHITE problems. That lunched thousands of motors and they didn't replace any motors until GM got into it with the Corvette's.  It sucks, but in most cases we are the long run testers.

In the North they use salt on the roads. It eats steal. Everyone knows it but it is an acceptable thing to everyone. Why isn't it acceptable that we should check parts as we are building our engines? Have you ever noticed how bad the core shift is in some intake manifolds?? Yet most won't even lay a gasket in place to see what is what. I saw an Edelbrock intake for an Oldsmobile that could not seal between runners at the head. I laid the gasket on it before hand wondering if the gasket was going to be enough to take the place of some pretty bad porosity. When I looked at the same runners at the back of the manifold for the opposite head I nearly shit. Night and day..
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Musicman on November 03, 2008, 10:48:30 PM
OH NO... say it isn't so... problems with Eddy Heads... this just couldn't be true. Core shift, Valves, Locks and Keepers, Customer Service...

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4789889&an=0&page=0&gonew=1#UNREAD

:lol: :smilielol: :lol:
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: AKcharger on November 23, 2008, 09:49:17 PM
I like my stealth heads  ;)
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Mfr426 on November 29, 2008, 11:19:59 AM
Well folks, I had to share the potential dropped valve issue that I just discovered with my Stealth Heads. After about 500 miles and preparing the car for the winter, I took Ron's suggestion and pulled the valve covers. I wanted to see if I had any issues with the retainers allowing the valves to slip potentially causing some serious engine damage.

Sadly I do have a problem with the #6 exhaust valve (correct me if that number is not right). The valve is clearly much lower than all of the other valves in either head. So, I am now ordering the new Comp Comp retainers, locks and the Comp Cam valve spring compressor tool that allows for valve spring removal with the heads on the motor. This "little" issue will end up costing me about $200 plus my time.

The moral of the story, I'd spend the $80-90 and put on the better keepers and retainers before you bolt on the heads. I think I just avoided a potentially expensive engine failure. Thanks Ron for the (continued) good suggestions.

Mike R in Reading PA
505 Stroker
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: firefighter3931 on November 30, 2008, 11:18:03 AM
Mike, thanks for posting that pic.  :scope:

It looks like #6 exhaust valve is starting to pull through the retainer.  :P

Good catch !  :2thumbs:



Ron
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: mally69 on November 30, 2008, 01:57:44 PM
Great pic bud, yea mine are all different hieghts. I just haven't tore it down yet.
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Mfr426 on December 01, 2008, 03:29:16 PM
I'm not eager to buy that slick Comp Cam tool to take off the springs without removing the head but hey...it IS a new tool!!!!

:icon_smile_wink:
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Steve P. on December 01, 2008, 04:15:53 PM
Quote from: Mfr426 on December 01, 2008, 03:29:16 PM
I'm not eager to buy that slick Comp Cam tool to take off the springs without removing the head but hey...it IS a new tool!!!!

:icon_smile_wink:

And THAT'S NEVER a bad thing.....   :2thumbs:
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: defiance on December 03, 2008, 04:03:34 PM
After reading this, and considering how bad my luck has been lately (still working on my rear seal :P), I just ordered a set of the comps referenced earlier in the thread to swap in this weekend.
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: defiance on December 08, 2008, 09:52:57 AM
Swapped all mine out last night.  <$100 spent (springs were in the right range, so I just swapped the retainers and locks), about an hour to swap 'em, and now I can rest easier :) 
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: my73charger on December 08, 2008, 11:37:47 AM
Are you guys going with the 7 or 10 degree retainers/locks?
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: defiance on December 08, 2008, 12:58:25 PM
I used the 10 degree comp set referenced above.
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: firefighter3931 on December 08, 2008, 03:30:32 PM
Just a note for reference ;

The Comp 10* lock and retainer part numbers are :

Comp #741 retainer
Comp # 613 lock



Ron
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: dkn1997 on December 10, 2008, 05:43:04 PM
Quote from: RD on October 25, 2008, 03:39:31 PM



.......yeah i really enjoyed the part where he tells his customers like it is by calling them dumb:

QuoteIn plain english, this means "If you're dumb enough to slap a bunch of parts together in a performance engine without checking anything, don't expect us to bail you out once it turns into a grenade."

.........

from all of the postings I have seen from him, that plain language is definitely a bit out of character from brandon, but think about the amount of abuse he takes over there.   I gotta give brandon a free pass on the "dumb" comment due to the fact that he's said the exact same thing nicely for years...how many times do you have to tell someone something?

If Dram, Moper, ron firefighter, chryco psycho or any of the other respected guys over here or there says "you must measure everything in a high performance application, even new parts out of the box"  everyone agrees,   if brandon says it, he's making excuses for bad parts made in china.  that's such a double standard based on no facts, a political agenda, or some other thing beyond reason.



who could blame the guy for getting a tired of it.  He's a more patient man than I.  If I was doing my best and bringing affordable good products to a segment of the hobby that gets ignored by most of the large companies, and I got treated like poop for my trouble, I would tell the high and mighty regulars over there to kiss my hindparts and I'd start making buick parts for nice people.
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Mfr426 on December 10, 2008, 08:44:21 PM
So far I'm quite happy with my 440 Source parts (stroker kit, water pump, heads, windage tray, etc.).

My new retainters and keepers are here along with the cool Comp Cam valve spring tool. Friday will be new retainer day!  :cheers:

Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: AKcharger on December 12, 2008, 12:50:38 AM
Quote from: dkn1997 on December 10, 2008, 05:43:04 PM
...If Dram, Moper, ron firefighter, chryco psycho or any of the other respected guys over here or there says "you must measure everything in a high performance application, even new parts out of the box"  everyone agrees,   if brandon says it, he's making excuses for bad parts made in china.  that's such a double standard based on no facts, a political agenda, or some other thing beyond reason...

Here Here!

You get what you pay for. I paid $900 for a set of Aluminum heads, that's a great deal, BUT I took 'em down to my shop to have them checked before I installed them. Now, had I paid like $5-6K for a set They'd BETTER be perfect.

Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: john108 on December 13, 2008, 12:07:33 AM
I Agree
I paid $1000 for a new set of e-heads and I plan on having them professionally checked out.
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Mfr426 on December 13, 2008, 07:54:14 AM
Well I put the new retainers and keepers on yesterday. The job (with the motor in the car) took about 2 hours. I bought the Comp Cam "on head" valve compressor tool. It worked well. The valves back near the firewall were a bit tougher to get to so I used a thick screwdriver to leverage the tool (instead of the supplied handle). That was no big deal and the tool is precision (thanks Ron).

The keepers that came on the stock Stealth heads are clearly wimpy. The ridge that is suppose to keep the keeper secure is VERY shallow and the overall strength of the keeper is questionable once you put it next to the Comp Cam keeper. The Comp Cam unit is about twice the overall thickness and size of the one that came on the heads. The retainer however appeared about the same quality as the Comp Cam unit.

Now that I see the issue with this keeper, I would strongly recommend any Stealth owners to make the change. Hopefully you can do it before you have the motor in the car. If you don't have that luxury, buy the Comp Cam tool and get the job done.

Pay attention to this thread folks!!!

Mike R in Reading PA
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: firefighter3931 on December 13, 2008, 09:48:26 AM
Quote from: Mfr426 on December 13, 2008, 07:54:14 AM
Well I put the new retainers and keepers on yesterday. The job (with the motor in the car) took about 2 hours. I bought the Comp Cam "on head" valve compressor tool. It worked well. The valves back near the firewall were a bit tougher to get to so I used a thick screwdriver to leverage the tool (instead of the supplied handle). That was no big deal and the tool is precision (thanks Ron).



Good work Mike.....that wan't too difficult was it ?  ;)


Quote from: Mfr426 on December 13, 2008, 07:54:14 AM

The keepers that came on the stock Stealth heads are clearly wimpy. The ridge that is suppose to keep the keeper secure is VERY shallow and the overall strength of the keeper is questionable once you put it next to the Comp Cam keeper. The Comp Cam unit is about twice the overall thickness and size of the one that came on the heads. The retainer however appeared about the same quality as the Comp Cam unit.



Mike, now you've seen the difference between a cheap "stamped" piece and a quality "machined + hardened" keeper.  :yesnod:

This is a no brainer upgrade....do it and you can sleep better at night.  :icon_smile_big:



Ron
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: tan top on December 13, 2008, 10:00:06 AM
been thinking about getting a set of their CNC ported stealth  heads   :scratchchin: .............. what happened to the head gasket problem after all , was it resolved .... seems odd to me they would invest all that dough in a new product & then cut corners on retainers & keepers ..
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Musicman on December 14, 2008, 08:20:23 AM
I don't care who you by your heads from... The bottom line is, every piece of the puzzle will have to be checked, there is no such thing as "Plug & Play" in this area. Eddy, Indy, 440source... it makes no difference, they have all had their share of problems and will continue to do so. Yes, we hear a little more about some of the issues associated with 440source at the moment because they are the new guys on the block, and that's a good thing, but that does not mean that the competition is any better. If you do your homework you will find that the exact same problems still plague the old tried and true manufactures as well, so do not treat them as if they were somehow magically exempt from the same quality assurance checks.... Their Not.
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Musicman on December 17, 2008, 04:55:27 AM
I noticed this morning that 440source is now selling and recommending the Comp Cams 10 degree Locks & Retainers as an upgrade for any head running greater than .500 lift on the valves.

http://440source.com/valveretainers.htm

Apparently someone has been listening to the customer...  :cheers:
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Mfr426 on December 17, 2008, 04:22:59 PM
I think the 440 Source is a good company and sells good products. Just like all of us they are always learning. I give them credit for getting these parts available period and am happy with my purchases.  :yesnod:
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Belgium R/T -68 on January 07, 2009, 10:11:12 AM
What comp partnumbers is 440source using? I would like to upgrade my heads for future use. ;)
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Mfr426 on January 07, 2009, 11:50:12 AM
I think they are the same parts that the experts here suggested. This is from Ron on the 8th...

This is what I got

"...Just a note for reference ;

The Comp 10* lock and retainer part numbers are :

Comp #741 retainer
Comp # 613 lock..."
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Belgium R/T -68 on January 07, 2009, 12:49:46 PM
Quote from: Mfr426 on January 07, 2009, 11:50:12 AM
I think they are the same parts that the experts here suggested. This is from Ron on the 8th...

This is what I got

"...Just a note for reference ;

The Comp 10* lock and retainer part numbers are :

Comp #741 retainer
Comp # 613 lock..."

Sorry, missed that one. :brickwall:
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: frederick on January 31, 2009, 05:23:00 PM
For future reference.
I've cc'd the 440 source head befoce and after skimming.

Stock: 84cc
Cut 1.25mm/0.0492": 75cc
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: my73charger on February 06, 2009, 02:44:56 PM
For future reference, if you are going to order these Comp 10* locks and retainers from Summit Racing, here are the links:
(I think it might actually be cheaper to order from 440Source after looking at it because the locks come in a set of 16 from Summit for $22 and a set of 32 from 440Source for $29)

Comp 741 Retainers
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=CCA%2D741%2D16&N=700+115&autoview=sku (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=CCA%2D741%2D16&N=700+115&autoview=sku)

Comp 613 Locks
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=CCA%2D613%2D16&N=700+115&autoview=sku (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=CCA%2D613%2D16&N=700+115&autoview=sku)

Just to be sure, these are correct right Ron?
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: dstryr on February 06, 2009, 04:33:26 PM
Those are the numbers.  I just looked at my receipt from the port work and the shop used 611-16 on my heads which have a recess for lash caps.  When I mocked up the Harland Sharp roller rockers they hit the valve tips perfectly but lash caps won't be used.  No issue here, is there?
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: AKcharger on February 14, 2009, 12:10:00 AM
I'll be doing mine towards the end of March. If any of you guys who already did the mod want to get rid of that spring tool or air adapter PM me.
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: mally69 on April 19, 2009, 09:13:51 PM
Ok guys, Just today i started putting my new locks and retainers on my stealth heads. Well I bought the tool from comp to compress the springs while on the head and i used the tool that screws into the sparkplug hole to fill the cylinder full of air. Now, before i get to far along this story i just want to say that I had the valves and seats all checked and made sure they were sealing when i assembled my engine. Well today when i hooked the air up to the heads every valve had a small amount of air blowing through them intake and exhuast but my number 2 intake really was blowing the air through. If i am correct thier should be NO air leaking between the valve and the valve seat, Right?
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Steve P. on April 20, 2009, 12:02:10 AM
As long as the valves are closed you should NOT be leaking by.  (Obviously you have removed the rocker rods so the valves SHOULD all be completely closed).  You may hear some air escaping passed the rings and that air will escape through all the drain-back holes for oil. This can sometimes sound like a valve leaking. You can test by putting your hands over the carb when on an intake valve and the exhaust tips when on an exhaust valve.

Something I do when testing is:  With an air charge on the cylinder, I tap the valve tip with a brass hammer to open and reseat the valve. You should not have any build up on your valves as they are so new, but you just never know. It doesn't take much carbon buildup to hang a valve slightly open.


If you have a huge rush of air bypassing a valve it is time to pull the heads and inspect and repair.



Good luck bro. Let us know ...............
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Musicman on April 20, 2009, 03:56:02 AM
Quote from: mally69 on April 19, 2009, 09:13:51 PM
I had the valves and seats all checked and made sure they were sealing when I assembled my engine.

Valves Checked or Valve work done?

When I purchased my heads I performed a hydrostatic test on the valves just for squirts & wiggles. I wasn't expecting much, and that's pretty much what I got. All the exhaust valves held to 120 psi, but the intake valves all started leaking ever so slightly at around 60 psi... acceptable by some standards, just not mine.

At any rate... Steve has said it pretty well above... make sure it's the actual valve seat leaking by first. If it is try re-seating it as Steve suggested... then go from there. Let us know how you make out...
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: mally69 on April 20, 2009, 12:36:42 PM
Im getting ready to go over now and remove the head for inspection of the problem. When i had the heads checked the first time when they were all brand new i had the valves and seats reground to make sure they were seating correctly. I did have one intake valve that leaked no matter what we did, it was bent so i called  440 source and they ssent me out another valve.  Ill let you know what i find out.
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: mally69 on April 20, 2009, 05:40:39 PM
OK, i got the head off, and i pulled the valve out. It has a decent ring the whole way around and it looks like it should sealing but it's not. I took the head to the machine shop and he is going to redo the valve job on that one so that it seals up. No major problems. Im really unsure what caused this. Im just hoping the valves i have are decent valves and this doesn't happen again. 
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Steve P. on April 20, 2009, 07:54:53 PM
Did you try to reseat the valve while under air pressure before pulling the head?? 

If a valve job was just done there is no excuse unless you burned the valve. Even if you didn't notice it, your head guy should have the second he looked at it.  I wonder if you don't have a tight guide....  :shruggy: A slightly bent valve can stick here and there....
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: mally69 on April 20, 2009, 08:03:54 PM
yes while the cylinder was full of air and the lock and retainers were still attatched, i opened the valve and let the air slam it shut, but i still had a leak.  When he put the valve in the valve grinder and started to cut, the stone only hit the one part of the valve for just a second then caught up and made a perfect ring around the valve. My guess is i will be buying a new valve.  We just gave it a quick look over to night, he is going to hot tank the head to clean it all up first. I will run down after work tomarow.
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: 1970Moparmann on April 20, 2009, 08:08:55 PM
How ironic.  I just purchased a set of Stealth heads and am happy I read this prior to getting the engine assembled!

Good job guys! :cheers:
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: mally69 on April 21, 2009, 09:56:53 PM
well what I ended up doing was reseating the valve and it is all sealing up fine now, we also did cut the valve to get that flat edge where it meets the seat to make it seal. Neither of us know why or what cause this to happen. But we are good. :2thumbs:
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: 1970Moparmann on April 21, 2009, 10:32:48 PM
I talked to 440Source today and they said there was a change in supplier for the retainers and locks since the first supply of heads.  The new supplier has been working out much better and better quality.  The stock retainers and locks are a 7 degree good with a cam that's a 510 or less.  Anything above, they suggest the retainer/lock package on the website...
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: mally69 on April 22, 2009, 03:10:24 AM
Quote from: 1970Moparmann on April 21, 2009, 10:32:48 PM
I talked to 440Source today and they said there was a change in supplier for the retainers and locks since the first supply of heads.  The new supplier has been working out much better and better quality.  The stock retainers and locks are a 7 degree good with a cam that's a 510 or less.  Anything above, they suggest the retainer/lock package on the website...



I dont know man, i would still change them out.
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: my73charger on April 28, 2009, 09:56:51 AM
I just changed out my locks and retainers to the Comp 10 degree set.  The locks are way more substantial.   :2thumbs:
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: mally69 on April 28, 2009, 06:28:04 PM
Quote from: my73charger on April 28, 2009, 09:56:51 AM
I just changed out my locks and retainers to the Comp 10 degree set.  The locks are way more substantial.   :2thumbs:



Damn right, they are far more superior than any 7 degree lock.
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: frederick on April 29, 2009, 12:02:45 PM
my73charger,

Make sure you check the retainer-rocker clearance when using the 10degree retainers and locks.

Frederick
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: my73charger on April 29, 2009, 01:16:43 PM
Quote from: frederick on April 29, 2009, 12:02:45 PM
my73charger,

Make sure you check the retainer-rocker clearance when using the 10degree retainers and locks.

Frederick


Thanks Frederick.  Will do.
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Chatt69chgr on May 09, 2009, 12:56:43 PM
Just had my machinist go through my new Stealth Heads.  Clearance on every valve guide was way too tight.  Everything else OK.  He corrected the problem and we are waiting on a set of Cometic head gaskets so we can put on the heads and measure the pushrod length.  I got a checking lifter and checking pushrod from Hughes.  I'am using their roller tip rockers and shaft.  They said their pushrods are made by Smith Bros. so I will just get them from Hughes.  I had to pay for the checking pushrod and lifter but they will give me my money back when I order my pushrods.  Forgot to say that I had the machinist install new comp cams valve spring retainers and locks and seals.  The valve springs all were OK.  We will be checking the rocker to valve spring retainer clearance once we get those parts all assembled.  I sure hope I don't have any issues there. 
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Musicman on May 09, 2009, 01:44:19 PM
I really like the Huges Roller Rockers, especially the design of the shafts with the Banana Cut for improved oiling.
You made a good choice there  :2thumbs:  At least that's my opinion  :cheers:
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: 73chgrSE on May 21, 2009, 10:41:12 AM
Just wondering, are stealth heads made in China? Aren't some of the other parts like rockers from China as well? I'm not trying to stir up things I just wanna know.
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: defiance on May 26, 2009, 08:44:29 AM
Yes.   
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Aussiemadonmopars on May 31, 2009, 11:40:25 AM
...and the problem with the head gaskets?? was that one resolved?
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: idahogrumpy on May 31, 2009, 12:03:52 PM
On the Hughes roller rocker pay careful attention to the area under the rocker closest to the valve spring retainer, we had clearance issues there and ended up sending ours back to Hughes. Hughes told us to add shims to get the clearance we needed. We did, and after the stack was finished to get clearance we had over 120 thousandths. This to me was unacceptable. We went with Indy roller rockers, they fit correctly. We have the Indy 440 ez heads yours maybe fine. We did use the Hughes rocker shafts and hold downs,,, Good stuff.  :Twocents: Kyle   
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Musicman on May 31, 2009, 04:57:18 PM
Quote from: Aussiemadonmopars on May 31, 2009, 11:40:25 AM
...and the problem with the head gaskets?? was that one resolved?

There is no problem with the gaskets, you just need to use the correct gasket with the right bore diameter.
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Aussiemadonmopars on May 31, 2009, 09:43:57 PM
I'm running with a 400" stroked to 496" using the 440 source stuff. So a 400" block plus 40 thou. Got any suggestions which brand of head gasket to use? Also looking at the piston for this kit and it seems very very short, starting to think maybe I went to big...
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Musicman on June 01, 2009, 06:54:29 AM
The combustion chambers of the Stealth heads are much larger than your cylinder bore. With the Stealth heads your typically looking at a gasket with a 4.5" diameter... maybe 4.6" in some extreme cases. As far as name brand is concerned, I put my trust in the Cometic MLS head gaskets with aluminum heads.
Do it once and do it right... :2thumbs:
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Aussiemadonmopars on September 26, 2009, 09:14:41 AM
I bumped into this little forum while doing a google search. Seems that Indy is coppin a blaggin' as well. Is this the same as Indy Cylinder Head Services or another company with the same name.

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2179327
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: frederick on September 29, 2009, 04:20:40 PM
Although I purchased the recommended ROL head gasket, I thought I'd see how wel it matches just before bolting on the heads.
Slight overhang in 2 of the ports, might not cause a problem.
Also had an used Fel-Pro 8519 so tried that on and.... fits perfectly.
So went to the store and bought some 8519's, checked again to be safe, perfect fit.

Just saw that they now also recommend them at 440source.
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: 1Bad70Charger on December 27, 2009, 02:03:10 AM
So several months later what is everyone's feedback on the 440source alum. 440 Cylinder heads, now thta we have been told that we should upgrade to the stonger locks and retainers.

I am about to pull the trigger on these with the upgraded locks and retainers and do you owner give a :2thumbs: on this decision, vs paying 50 to 75% more vs the Eddy ALum heads and Mopar 452 Alum. Heads! 

Thanks in advance for your feedback!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: mally69 on December 27, 2009, 10:26:48 AM
My opinion, go for the stealth heads they flow as good as the edelbrock ones and they are less money, just make sure you get the good locks and retainers   :2thumbs:
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: 1Bad70Charger on December 27, 2009, 11:50:22 AM
Quote from: mally69 on December 27, 2009, 10:26:48 AM
My opinion, go for the stealth heads they flow as good as the edelbrock ones and they are less money, just make sure you get the good locks and retainers   :2thumbs:

:cheers:
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Chatt69chgr on December 29, 2009, 10:56:12 PM
Really need to have the heads checked out by a machine shop.  Some have had to have a valve seat touched up to seal properly.  Just had to have that valve lapped in.  Also the valve guide clearance.  Every one of mine had virtually no clearance and had to be reamed to get the right clearance.  Of course, I replace the valve locks and retainers and while I was at it the valve guide seals.  You buy these parts and pay someone to do what I have indicated and you start approaching what the Eddie head costs.  I am assuming that it doesn't need any of this work.  But it's been drilled in to me that no matter who you buy a head from, you have to have it checked out.  All in all, the 440 Source head is a good value I think.  Just don't forget that if you find porosity in the head after their 30 days or whatever it is, then too bad.  They don't stand behind their products after that short time period. I bet that if you found porosity in a Eddie head a year later they would replace it no questions asked.
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: mally69 on December 31, 2009, 08:33:49 AM
Quote from: Chatt69chgr on December 29, 2009, 10:56:12 PM
Really need to have the heads checked out by a machine shop.  Some have had to have a valve seat touched up to seal properly.  Just had to have that valve lapped in.  Also the valve guide clearance.  Every one of mine had virtually no clearance and had to be reamed to get the right clearance.  Of course, I replace the valve locks and retainers and while I was at it the valve guide seals.  You buy these parts and pay someone to do what I have indicated and you start approaching what the Eddie head costs.  I am assuming that it doesn't need any of this work.  But it's been drilled in to me that no matter who you buy a head from, you have to have it checked out.  All in all, the 440 Source head is a good value I think.  Just don't forget that if you find porosity in the head after their 30 days or whatever it is, then too bad.  They don't stand behind their products after that short time period. I bet that if you found porosity in a Eddie head a year later they would replace it no questions asked.


In my opinion it doesnt matter what heads you buy they all need their guides and seats checked . as for the comment about eddy heads and thier porosity, i would highly doubt they would do anything about it if it wasnt immediatly reported after purchase.  :Twocents:
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: dkn1997 on January 02, 2010, 03:50:06 PM
 :iagree:

ask anyone who knows anything about anything and they will say that even 5000.00 heads have issues and should never be taken out of the box and bolted on.

As for the warranty, The only advantage I'd see with edelbrock is that you could F up your own heads by doing something stupid and you may be able to con them into warranty for damage because they are a big company and you may get the "right" person on the phone.  440 source is a smaller operation and you are less likely to be able to run a game on them since the guy you would be talking to actually owns the company in most cases....which makes sense since being a smaller company , they can't just go around absorbing bogus warranty like edelbrock could. 
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: 71runner on March 25, 2010, 06:07:39 PM
i like the fact that the stealth heads can be painted and look like factory iron, but can you still fit factory valve covers over the roller rockers from 440 source? assuming you wanted to keep your build looking as factory as possible...
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Steve P. on April 01, 2010, 10:05:19 AM
You should say: (Assuming you WANT to use 440 SOURCE ROLLER ROCKERS).... They are NOT recommended by MOST....
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: AKcharger on April 06, 2010, 10:41:46 PM
I'm still happy with mine, but I did change out the locks and retainers
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: ramblinn on May 18, 2010, 01:00:36 AM
Good info here, thx all.  I'm considering stealth heads for my 440 rebuild (70 Road Runner).  440source site says OK to use stock rocker arms/shafts.  Is anyone doing this on their rigs?
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Steve P. on May 19, 2010, 03:37:14 PM
Hello all.  Been a while as things are kind of tough right now, but I ran into a buddy the other day that used a set of 440 Source heads on a customers car. (Customer supplied all parts). The long and short of this is that one of the heads CRACKED. There was not allot of time/miles on this very fresh motor but it is a " blown " motor. The blower is very under-driven.  and this motor stays under 190* all the time..
So my buddy called 440 Source and told them of this problem. They recommended he pull the head and call back with the 440 Source ID numbers. He did and they told him that : (YES, we did have a bad run of heads that were made poorly. They said to pack it up, (1) head, and send it back to them that they would replace the (1) head. Even though they know they came from the same batch and that the motor has not even been put through it's paces yet.... Then they would NOT pay the shipping due to the heads being bought a while before they developed the problem. This motor was put together months ago by a machine shop and got a few pulls on the dyno. No leaks were reported at that time.

I should also mention that most of the needed parts for this motor CAME from 440 Source all at the same time. Crank, bearings, heads, rockers, ignition, water pump, WP housing, brackets, balancer etc etc...

I can say this, when I do get back on my tools and it comes motor time I WILL NOT be using 440 Source parts nor will I ever again recommend them to anyone. I know that ALL manufacturing companies have their own problems, but this company has turned me against them all on their own...

Happy motoring....
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Challenger340 on May 19, 2010, 10:08:53 PM
Thats a Bummer Steve P.
I hope the other Head doesn't crack down the road, THAT would REALLY suck !

If there is a Bright Side, at least they are replacing the one Head ?
Better than a "Poke in the eye" with a sharp stick ?

No matter, the Money on those parts sells itself,
"Made in China" seems to me to infer, "you pays yer money, you takes yer chances" ?

NOT that alot of it doesn't work just fine, IT DOES !,
Just,
That there IS A DIFFERENCE from "MADE IN THE U.S.A." !

I'm a sick man !
I like to stack all the Cranks in "Lines" at the Shop.
I ALWAYS make sure, to put a CALLIES or CROWER Crank at the end of each Line, facing out.
so when Guys "look",
They SEE the differences !
Eagle, Eagle, SCAT, 440Source, Eagle, Then a CROWER !
next Line,
Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, then the CALLIES !

When I get asked, and I do ALOT,
I then make sure to go get a Micrometer, and Further SHOW the DIFFERENCES !

The "MADE IN U.S.A." stuff is literally PERFECT, and so much nicer to work with !
Better Forgings, Better Machining, and PERDIER !

I do the same in the Head Shop as well.
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Steve P. on May 20, 2010, 02:35:10 AM
Yeah, and tac on to that $100.00 per head gasket for the blower motor and let's not forget the coolant in the pan... 

I meant to mention that the crack on this head was visible from the bottom set of head bolts. Coolant was running out of the base of the head...
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Cooter on May 20, 2010, 05:42:49 PM
My thinking is this....As long as there's "Made In The USA" for HUGE $$$ and "Made In China" for little $$$, the little money will almost ALWAYS win out in the end....Only when something like this happens, do people think about spending the big bucks..


If 440source can get at least most of the people to "Try" their product at least ONCE, then they have made a killing..Doesn't even matter if they are around in 5 years, they've made their money...Everybody has the simple choice of buying that high Dollar Stroker set up from Callies, or Kellogg but they will opt for the cheapest first and THIS is how 440source makes money...

Now if we could only get Kellogg, Callies, etc. to sell their stroker kits for what 440source sells theirs for, we'd not only buy American, we wouldn't have to complain about cracked Cylinder heads..
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Musicman on May 20, 2010, 07:51:10 PM
Well ,when you all find that PERFECT manufacture that puts out a PERFECTLY FLAWLESS line of products each and every time, you let the rest of know about them OK, because those of us who still live in the real world, we haven't heard of them yet.  :lol:

Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Steve P. on May 21, 2010, 04:49:57 AM
The purpose of my post is to let others know exactly what is what with a problem. All manufacturing has it's own problems. ALL... The major difference is what they do to correct them and how they handle the affected parts and customers. Buying anything from anyone is always a gamble. We must be willing to take that gamble if we want the merchandise. BUT,,, do you research the merchandise or just go for the cheapest merchandise? Is that gamble the BEST and SMARTEST deal you can make. What will it cost me in the long run?  Cheap crappy rockers can take out a very expensive build. As can a coolant leak. If I have done my homework and know from other peoples experiences that I have a low chance of being happy with a part or a company I am NOT buying from them.   

Yes, money talks. BUT is it right or fair to make a product that you know has problems and continue to pass along the inferior product? We are NOT talking SWAP MEET PARTS here. We ARE talking about a company that is supposed to be reputable.  Well, reputation is a major part of how I decide where I buy my parts.  I chose my doctors the same way. If they have a reputation for patients croaking on the table or cutting off the wrong hands I am not going to seek his help. If I want to end it all quick I will call Kevorkian.   Yes. You know that name and his REPUTATION.....
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Challenger340 on May 29, 2010, 10:15:43 AM
Quote from: Cooter on May 20, 2010, 05:42:49 PM
My thinking is this....As long as there's "Made In The USA" for HUGE $$$ and "Made In China" for little $$$, the little money will almost ALWAYS win out in the end....Only when something like this happens, do people think about spending the big bucks..


If 440source can get at least most of the people to "Try" their product at least ONCE, then they have made a killing..Doesn't even matter if they are around in 5 years, they've made their money...Everybody has the simple choice of buying that high Dollar Stroker set up from Callies, or Kellogg but they will opt for the cheapest first and THIS is how 440source makes money...

Now if we could only get Kellogg, Callies, etc. to sell their stroker kits for what 440source sells theirs for, we'd not only buy American, we wouldn't have to complain about cracked Cylinder heads..

Thats exactly the point Cooter, Kellog & Callies CAN NOT sell their stuff for the same price as 440source, because, It's NOT the same stuff ?

The Only way they could make THEIR STUFF the same as the "Chinese" Junk, would be to FIRE all the "GOOD GUYS earning a decent wage, and go hire a BUNCH of cheapdumb Labor ?
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Purple440 on October 08, 2010, 08:20:26 PM
So why do we have to buy Edlebrock heads and then buy new headers that fit because of the raise plug angle?  Is there an option that isn't 440 source for good heads that aren't 452 remakes?  Seems like Eddy focuses on Ford and Chevy. 
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: 1Bad70Charger on November 01, 2010, 08:38:45 PM
Quote from: 1Bad70Charger on December 27, 2009, 02:03:10 AM
So several months later what is everyone's feedback on the 440source alum. 440 Cylinder heads, now thta we have been told that we should upgrade to the stonger locks and retainers.

I am about to pull the trigger on these with the upgraded locks and retainers and do you owner give a :2thumbs: on this decision, vs paying 50 to 75% more vs the Eddy ALum heads and Mopar 452 Alum. Heads! 

Thanks in advance for your feedback!  :cheers:


Disregard my above posts as I found some brand new 84 cc Eddy Heads in the box from a private party for $1,250 shipped!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: defiance on November 02, 2010, 10:40:04 AM
Unfortunately I haven't had enough road time to give mine any real feedback... What little bit I have had has been good, but everytime I get nearly done I decide to back up and "improve" something :P

Right now I theoretically just have to rebuild the exhaust, clean up some minor rewiring I did, put the driveshaft back in, do fluid check, and start it again......  But before I do that I want to put in the lift I just got (maxjax) and redo the lighting in my garage...  and to do that I need time, which simply hasn't been there for the past month or two... :/

Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: oldcarnut on February 03, 2011, 03:54:00 PM
Quote
I also fitted the comp cams 10 degrees retainers and locks.
But I used these and noticed the compressed height increased by about 0.040", so I am going to get shims under the springs to compensate.
CCA-613-16 (locks)
CCA-748-16 (retainers)
I'm going to measure the actual compressed spring force with the shims, will let you know the results when I have them.

Frederick

I know this was posted a long time ago but I didn't see anywhere a post on the pressure results of the shims or without.  Do you remember?   I bought a set of the heads and had them checked over and the shop said sealing, clearances etc were good out the box but did a valve lap on them anyway.  Also had the 10* parts installed but just curious as what the consenses came out on the spring pressure.  Haven't seen much discussion on how many used the shims or did not.  Sometimes the more I read I wonder if I take in too much info.
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: frederick on February 03, 2011, 05:42:41 PM
You'll have a hard time looking for them, they weren't posted as I don't have the results.
I had problems with the standard, stamped rockers, some where touching the valve retainers so I went with different springs.

I did pressure test those to set the right installed height, but I don't think you'll have much use for those results.

If you've got bathroom scales and a caliper it's pretty easy to check them yourself.
Otherwise check the installed height before and after installing the comp cam locks and retainers, and shim them to get the original height.
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: poppa on August 27, 2011, 09:38:18 PM
440 is now offering 7* locks installed for free until the end of August....
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: cuda66273 on October 10, 2012, 06:57:54 PM
And for some reason you thought those S Heads made in China by quality craftsmen using Chinese high quality parts would be anything other than you got?

Eventually that company will destroy enough good old Mopar blocks with their Lowest Priced Parts they won't have any customers left.

Why would anyone buy those heads?  Is it just because they're cheap?

If I ever need brain surgery I'm not taking the lowest bid.
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Cooter on March 12, 2013, 11:49:19 AM
Quote from: cuda66273 on October 10, 2012, 06:57:54 PM
Eventually that company will destroy enough good old Mopar blocks with their Lowest Priced Parts they won't have any customers left.See, that's my whole point....

Why would anyone buy those heads?  Is it just because they're cheap? You'd be surprized at whole will opt for the cheapest KNOWING they are rolling the dice.

If I ever need brain surgery I'm not taking the lowest bid.So that must explain all those horror stories about all those people who got face lifts done in the back of a storage facility and are scarred for life. Brain surgery and auto parts are two entirely different things. So FAR, there's still a "Standard" for health care, but you wait and see, there will come a day when the lowest bidder WILL win the contract on your brain surgery. Hell even today, you have to mark "Wrong Knee" on your opposite leg being opperated on to insure the correct knee gets opperated on, Sponges left inside folks, and these Guys make $300K/year.
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: AKcharger on March 12, 2013, 02:19:50 PM
...5 years with their heads and 470 kit and no problems...perhaps 440 source isn't as bad as some think
:popcrn:
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: Cooter on March 12, 2013, 06:14:11 PM
I am debating on the Stealth heads right now. NEVER buy the first thing out...Let everybody else fid out the problems like customer service, then I buy. :2thumbs:
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: 68CoronetRT on May 04, 2013, 12:53:51 PM
Just ordered a set of these heads along with the 10* locks/retainers... Sending out to the machine shop next Wed when they arrive via Fedex.

Did ALOT of reading before this purchase and it seems as if they have worked out most of the bugs. :2thumbs: :popcrn:
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: 68CoronetRT on June 21, 2013, 04:35:35 PM
Welp.... been interesting. I'm running the 5/16 width pushrods and still had to cut the intake pushrod hole. Also running Iron Ductile rockers which I'm not 100% sure are helping with that situation. Other than that everything else has been good.

I did notice the valve tips were a little different heights out of the box, but after the 10* locks/retains they seemed to straighten right up. Machine shop also said they looked good! :2thumbs:

Hopefully I will have the motor in the car and running next weekend. I will report back with some video when it finally does fire and run! :cheers:
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: JB400 on June 21, 2013, 04:39:25 PM
Hard to have a video without :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn:
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: 68CoronetRT on July 11, 2013, 10:45:19 AM
I have video but I cant link it from FB... I'll have to upload it to youtube today.

Runs real good though minus the MSD ignition being a pain the butt!
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: rockitier350 on July 28, 2013, 08:08:12 AM
while we are on the head topic looking for a good head for a new block 426 any recommendation just came to the mopar side from gm and seeing that the selection is a lot more limited 8-71 bds blower motor 1000hp
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: pippo702 on October 30, 2013, 02:50:56 PM
Very reassuring  to read only now about theese heads! I already have them on the ongine along with a stroker kit from them..! :-)
Anyhow I'd like to know what kind of of clearance they have on the roller because I'm looking for valve covers and I don't know which one to pick..my favourites ar the mopar..or the edelbrock elite series but I'm worried that they wouldn't fit..I tried the original ones and they didn't fit..I didn't assembly the heads myself but I believe that they were made with all 440source stuff
thanks
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: oldcarnut on October 30, 2013, 11:40:31 PM
I have the 440S covers on the stealth heads. I modified them but have room.  Still haven't got the motor built though to run it.  Don't know if this link will help but it has a couple pics that you may be able to refer to.  http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,85589.0.html
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: pippo702 on November 01, 2013, 02:31:55 AM
Thanks.. I'll check..but I don't like them so much..I'll get them if they should be the only choice..I love these:

(http://www.pdani.it/public/pippo702/mopar.jpg)

would them fit?
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: fy469rtse on November 01, 2013, 04:26:01 AM
 I believe they will, the stealth heads are alloy copys of the steel heads, everything stock bolt pattern for covers stock as well
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: pippo702 on November 01, 2013, 07:18:32 AM
Quote from: fy469rtse on November 01, 2013, 04:26:01 AM
I believe they will, the stealth heads are alloy copys of the steel heads, everything stock bolt pattern for covers stock as well
thanks,I was mostly concearned about the height..you'right about the bolt pattern..it's the same..
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: 68CoronetRT on December 04, 2015, 08:12:46 PM
Just a quick little update on my heads. I now have roughly 4k miles since the rebuild and just broke a valve spring with a .513 lift cam. Back then they advertised their springs were good to .600 lift. Now when you read the web site they are .510 is MAX before going dual springs. I'm guessing they had similar issues like mine in the last few years.

I will update this post when I find a suitable replacement that will drop right in and be a similar but higher quality spring.
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: TXcharger70 on December 13, 2015, 10:51:41 PM
Quote from: 68CoronetRT on December 04, 2015, 08:12:46 PM
Just a quick little update on my heads. I now have roughly 4k miles since the rebuild and just broke a valve spring with a .513 lift cam. Back then they advertised their springs were good to .600 lift. Now when you read the web site they are .510 is MAX before going dual springs. I'm guessing they had similar issues like mine in the last few years.

I will update this post when I find a suitable replacement that will drop right in and be a similar but higher quality spring.

I had they same thing happen to me. I had one of mine break as well. So junked those valve springs and went with Isky racing valve springs on my stroker. http://iskycams.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=99&products_id=2136 (http://iskycams.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=99&products_id=2136)
Title: Re: Warning if you are using stealth heads.
Post by: chargervic on March 10, 2016, 02:11:52 AM
I have about 15,000 miles or more on a set of Stealth heads that I bought in 2010. I paid for the upgrade to the Comp parts (keepers & retainers) at the time and have no issues with these parts. My initial problem with one head is that during the installation of the seats at the factory, a small burr of metal from where the seats overlap got caught under one seat and created a leak. This was caught with a vacuum test BEFORE the heads were installed. I did this on the advice of another Stealth customer. I spoke with the guys at 440 Source and they paid for the repair to the head at my machine shop. I now have over 50,000 miles on my 451 stroker, with aluminum roller rockers, Six Pack and no real issues. About 16 MPG (USG) on the highway and the car runs in the high 11's at the track. I used another set of Stealths on a 496 with no issues there either.
As was mentioned in another post, any new part can have issues. After 56 years of building Mopar engines, I've seen a few. Inspect and clean everything well before assembly, do your homework carefully on the combination, measure EVERYTHING and you should have lots of smiles in your miles. I do. :cheers: