Hey guys I need some info on A/C systems.
My 69 has factory air but it was in pretty poor shape and since I wanted to upgrade to R134a, I bought some classic auto air parts off a member here. I replaced the RV2 with a Sanden style compressor and have new hoses, a new expansion valve with 2 capillary tubes (one with a nut, the other bare), a thermostat with capillary and a drier with pressure switch. What I don't have is instructions on how to hook all this stuff up. :lol:
I ran a new wire from the bulkhead connector as the old one was cut. According to the wiring diagram that one goes to the compressor.
Does anyone have a manual or can tell me what goes where?
Almost forgot, I am using the stock evaporator and metal lines and a new condenser from classic auto air.
Dino,
I still have the manual from when I installed mine. It was pretty simple & straightforward. Only thing I don't have is the template for the firewall for drilling the holes for use with their heater/AC box (my car was non-A/C).
Either:
A) I can photocopy & mail it to you.
B) I can scan it & email it to you.
or...
C) You can print it right here from their website: http://www.classicautoair.com/manuals/1-2066%20INSTALL%20INSTRUCTIONS.pdf
:2thumbs:
Thanks Bill! I can't believe I did not see that file, my bad!
I was really confused where the low pressure switch would go as there is no provision for it. I guess I need some sort of adapter to fit it in there. I'll go over the file, slowly, and hope to get it cleared up. :icon_smile_big:
Does 134 require different high and low Schrader(sp?) valves??
I honestly don't know. It seems the more I try to find out, the less I do.
I still haven't figured out where the pressure switch goes. It came with the drier #33317 but does it mount there? I certainly don't have a provision for it on one of the hoses as the pfd says.
I'm confused...
I was told by the folks at CCA that the switch on the receiver dryer is not needed on this system.
In fact I was told by one guy (not Ron, he is fairly knowledgable) to "cut the end off and twist the wires together". Yuh, that is the look I'm goin' for!!! :rotz:
In any case, I transfered everything over to the new rec/dry.
The wire to the compressor has to have a thermostat switch in between as the new compressors don't have the tstat built in. So the wire should come from the bh connector to the tstat then to the compressor. You can see the tstat on the fire wall wrapped around the one hose.
Thanks Bob! :cheers:
I found out yesterday that I don't have enough space to mount the thermo switch below the '70 style VR. I wonder if I can drill two small holes in the firewall without drilling through the A/C-heater box. Probably not.
Do you have one or two capillary tubes on the expansion valve? I have two, one plain and one with a nut on the end. I have no clue where that one goes. I do have the old expansion valve that came with the parts I bought and it has only one. Maybe I just need to cut off the one with the nut?
Unless the original A/C box or the new Sanden type compressor has a pressure switch, I'm pretty sure I need to have this.
The only 'new' classic auto air parts I have are the compressor, condenser, thermostatic switch, and the two long hoses. The drier and pressure switch came from autozone, expansion valve came from Rockauto, hard line and A/C box are stock and short hose from drier to expansion valve came from ebay. What a puzzle! :lol:
You can see the expansion valve in the pictures. 2 for hoses and I don't remember what the heck that is on the other side there.
Also FYI, every thing on my car inside, switches, heater/A-C box etc. is all original to the car. Only under the hood was upgraded to R134 system and what you see.
On the Classic air site home page, at the bottom, there is a button for downloading the installation manual for their system and for a OEM system. One of those might help. :shruggy:
Quote from: green69rt on June 16, 2014, 01:29:51 PM
On the Classic air site home page, at the bottom, there is a button for downloading the installation manual for their system and for a OEM system. One of those might help. :shruggy:
They do indeed have two pdf files on there but neither keep any factory stuff. The file for factory air cars starts with instructing to remove all A/C parts, including the stock controls, and replacing it with their stuff...but that's not what I'm doing. I need a manual for the under hood upgrade kit and they don't have one. At this point I just need to know what to do with the pressure switch and the extra capillary tube on the expansion valve.
Here's a few pictures of the drier and pressure switch and two small metal...thingies in the bag. No clue what those are for.
Does anyone know what the brass looking thing on the drier is about? Should the switch go on the other side where the bolt is? I just don't know what to do with this stuff, there was no instructions with the drier and the classic air type has the switch on a hose.
There is an in and out and the switch goes in fron so it can only go one way. I'll take pics of mine when I get home.
OK, here is a pic of my old one, you can see comparing the new one the in and out. One is male, the other female.
I had to use my old switch because the new ones thread size was different.
In any case here are the pics.
Yeah the instructions are pretty useless for a setup using stock a/c locations. It took a few phone calls to get mine setup right.
On my drier the bolt stayed on and the brass fitting was where the switch goes in.
Don't know why the expansion valve has 2 tubes? Should only be 1. I wouldn't cut it though, just wrap around with the other tube.
I didn't want to drill in the firewall for the thermostat switch either so I used one of the blower motor bolts. Just had to make the hole a tad larger. :cheers:
Thanks gentlemen, it's starting to make a bit more sense now. Good idea using the fan bolt, I'll have to do something like that. :2thumbs:
Yesterday I decided to unscrew that brass thingy, I probably shouldn't have as it went psshhhhh. :lol:
W&R that is the same spot on your drier where your switch is, but the fitting on my switch is smaller than the drier fitting. Did you get an adapter?
Mine is a 73 so I had a bunch of holes already one the firewall, only had to drill one. It fit perfectly in that spot and there is nothing behind it except the wiper arms.
I did think of putting it lower but my engine bay is REALLY hot. As it is I had/have to wrap more of the goo around it because it wouldn't cycle off and my system was freezing up. So I thought that a bit too close to the manifolds.
I did the freezer trick so I know the stat works ... just have to wrap it with more insulation.
I also found some nice Mopar style connector ends so I didn't have to use those cheezy Radio Shack ones they sent.
Hi Dino,
I think Classic Air gave Bob some really, really bad advice about not needing the low pressure cut off switch, here's why. more modern compressors like the Sanden depend on the R-134 to carry oil through them to lubricate them. No R-134 , no oil through the compressor and it will quickly grind itself into aluminum bits. These bits will mostly wind up in the condenser and will plug it up. New parallel flow condensers are impossible to flush out. So, after the compressor destructs you wind up replacing both the compressor and the condenser. Then you have to try and flush out the rest of the aluminum compressor bits from the rest of the system. Classic Air's advice might be good for replacement parts sales but, not so good for your wallet. The old RV-2 had its own internal oil sump and oil pump to provide its own lubrication so it wasn't too sensitive to this issue. No oil Through the Sanden is fatal.
The low pressure switch should mount on the receiver /drier as Bob's and W&R's pictures show. I can't see from your pictures of the drier if there is a small pipe plug opposite the brass pressure relief valve. That is what that small brass thing is. A safety valve to vent off system pressure if it gets way too high. That Psssst sound you heard was the nitrogen fill in the receiver/drier escaping. Receiver/driers are shipped tightly capped and filled with nitrogen as they will readily absorb moisture and quickly saturate with water vapor. That is, after all their job.
You need to run the capillary tube from the thermostat switch down into the evaporator fins. It's job is to keep the evaporator from freezing up. It is wired in series with the low pressure cut off and compressor clutch so it will cycle the compressor on and off. The old RV-2 had an EPR valve behind the suction port to do this same job.
The two capillary tubes from the expansion valve run into the suction side line and are shown in the FSM. If you need a scan of the page let me know.
In assembling your system, the receiver/ drier should have been the last thing uncapped and installed and the compressor second to last as the PAG oil for R-134 systems also absorbs moisture like crazy. To properly install the compressor it's a good idea to dump out whatever oil is in there and pour some of the proper weight PAG oil in the suction port. Then turn the compressor hub manually to circulate the oil. Them dump that oil out and refill with the specified amount and weight of new PAG oil. Reseal the compressor ports while installing the compressor until you get the lines in place. I have a Sanden manual around some place and should be able to find the amount and weight of PAG oil for your compressor if you have the model number.
This is getting bit long , but, I'll be happy to walk you through installing and charging up your system.
Pete, thanks for the explanation. And yes, I have no idea why that guy @ CAA said that.
In my picture, you can see the line from the switch to the tube. Is that the best place for it or should I move that closer to the firewall on that hose/metal. :scratchchin:
That is exactly the issue I'm having ... freezes up after a long while. Ron @ CAA sent me another switch just in case but this one is working, from my freezer test anyway. I simply believe it is not insulated enough, do you agree that could be the problem?
I was going to put more of that black stuff on the line as all the way up to the switch unless you have another suggestion or different product you can suggest.
Sorry Troy to hijack you thread!! :-\
Thanks for the explanation Pete! :cheers:
I found out that the pressure switch does go on the opposite side of the release valve on the drier so it's in place. I hope I didn't mess up the drier by releasing the valve. The compressor is dirty I'm sure so I'll definitely flush it a few times. Do I need to remove anything or simply hold it upside down while spinning the hub?
I'm going to need a new thermostat switch. I was drilling out the hole in the mounting tab so I could use the same bolt as the blower fan's ground wire. I made it spin and snapped the capillary tube right off. Oh well, it shouldn't be too pricey.
How do I run that capillary tube to the evaporator though?
I do have the FSM but I didn't even think to look there for the dual capillaries on the expansion valve so I'm going to read up on it now.
Would any of these work? Besides having the terminals in different spots, I'm not sure if there's anything else different that matters but if anyone knows a better one to get, I'm all ears.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/A-C-Thermo-Switch-Thermostatic-Switch-UAC-SW-3123C-/131127933076?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e87d57894&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/itm/A-C-Thermo-Switch-Thermostatic-Switch-UAC-SW-3122C-/131127933259?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e87d5794b&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Global-Parts-Distributors-1711289-Thermostatic-Switch-/231257283238?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35d8021aa6&vxp=mtr
So as far as wiring goes, I run the blue wire that comes from the bulkhead connector to the thermostat switch, from there go to the low pressure switch and from there to the compressor. Should I stick a relay in there somewhere or will this work?
Since this morning, my car has working A/C controls and a working heater valve again. Woohoo! :lol:
Since some of the items are CAA product, you may want to give them a call and see what they suggest. IF you call, ask for Ron ... he seems to be the only knowledgeable guy there.
Email is Ron@classicautoair.com or 877-342-5526 x 7022.
Bob and Dino,
Dino, I would think you could use any of those thermostat switches you found. You can also get them in a type that is adjustable and that may be a good option so you can dial in the evaporator freeze point. The purpose of the switch is to turn off the compressor clutch at the point the evaporator will begin to freeze up.
Bob, I can see in your photo that the capillary tube on your thermostat is going into the insulation next to the suction line. Both you and Dino want to install the capillary tube actually into the fins of the evaporator inside the evaporator case. It is more common to mount the thermostat switch inside the car on the evaporator/ heater case and drill a small hole in the case to run the capillary tube down into the evaporator fins. Your evaporator is freezing up because you are not really measuring the evaporator temperature. You are measuring the suction line temperature after the evaporator. The evaporator has iced up long before you know about it.
Dino, I think your receiver/drier will be okay as long as you did not leave it open for very long, like only a few minutes.. If you left it open and uncapped for a day or more I would replace it. If that compressor you have is a used one and has been open without plugs or caps over the suction and discharge ports you can not really flush a compressor out except with oil. Can you post a picture of the compressor so I can get an idea of what you're trying to work with? No relay required just wire the switches in series with the clutch coil.
Adjustable? That sounds like a good idea, I'll find one of those. :2thumbs:
I had the drier open for about 10 seconds, no more. I didn't think to run the switch on the inside. I don't know much of anything about the A/C box so I'll have to check the FSM to see where to drill the hole. Since I have the blue wire going to the bulkhead connector under the dash, can I interrupt it and hook it to the thermostat switch before it goes through the bulkhead connector and into the engine bay? That way I don't have to drill another hole in the firewall.
Does the capillary from the expansion valve need to go inside the case as well? That may prove a bit more difficult. Also, I found in the FSM that there was a provision on the stock R12 hose to screw the capillary to, but the new line does not have that. Can I wrap both of the expansion capillaries around the metal end of the liquid line like was suggested?
Here's the compressor, not my car but it's the one I have now. I'll look for a part number if you need it.
Quote from: Pete in NH on June 17, 2014, 12:35:29 PM
Bob, I can see in your photo that the capillary tube on your thermostat is going into the insulation next to the suction line. Both you and Dino want to install the capillary tube actually into the fins of the evaporator inside the evaporator case. It is more common to mount the thermostat switch inside the car on the evaporator/ heater case and drill a small hole in the case to run the capillary tube down into the evaporator fins. Your evaporator is freezing up because you are not really measuring the evaporator temperature. You are measuring the suction line temperature after the evaporator. The evaporator has iced up long before you know about it.
Well, again that is where the folks at CAA told me to put it. If I would have known that it would have gotten done before the heater box went into the car.
Would it be any better on the other line or is inside the only option? I realize it's the best but not exactly the easiest now. :brickwall:
To someone like me who has never done this before these instructions are confusing. It sounds like a wire from the pressure switch goes to the thermostat. But they told me just break the wire to the compressor and install the switch in between.
It is all very confusing, I'm scratching my head so much lately I think I dug a hole in my head. :lol:
The A/C wire connects the compressor, thermal switch, and pressure switch in series. It does not really matter from an electrical standpoint where one is in relation to another, as long as all three are hooked up and receiving power. That's all it is really, the compressor needs power to spin and either switch is a safety on the line in case something goes wrong. It's those damn capillaries that have me going every which way.
I too don't look forward to digging into the A/C box but it has to be done I suppose. Oh well, it's only more time and money and I have plenty of neither. :lol:
I guess one of these would work It doesn't mention adjustability but I don't know what else the rotary knob would be for.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Global-Parts-Distributors-1711239-Thermostatic-Switch-/380813714101?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item58aa4422b5&vxp=mtr
I'll have to crawl under the dash to see how to get the capillary tube in there. From what I can tell from the FSM, it has to go in from the top and go straight down between the fins. Oh boy...
Bob,
I know digging into the assembled evaporator case is not going to be fun. It is the preferred way to accurately sense the evaporator temperature. I think the CAA guys were trying to do a shortcut. If you look in the FSM for the A body cars that cycle the compressor on evaporator temperature you will see the correct set up. You might try the adjustable thermostat switch and set it to a slightly higher temperature. For example the evaporator might be at 35 degrees and close to freezing and at the same time the suction line might be at 40 degrees. If you set the switch to trip at 40 degrees and turn off the compressor that might work. I'm a bit concerned that other variables might get in the way but it might be worth a try.
Dino, I see your problem now with the stock 69 expansion valve and two capillary tubes. Trying to mix and match stock system parts and CAA parts is the issue. You will likely need a single capillary expansion valve from CAA to match their suction line set up.
Your right it's a series electrical circuit so wire it up in any order that works best as far as layout. That thermostat switch you referenced sure looks adjustable to me, so it should work. Are you all squared away with the low pressure cut off switch mounting on the receiver/drier? There should be a small o ring under the switch and all o rings should be installed with a bit of refrigerant oil on them.
The model number of the compressor would help to tell us what weight PAG oil you need to get and figure out how much oil to put in the system. Too little oil and the compressor dies and too much oil and cooling performance is effected. Are the compressor ports sealed up now? Dirt and moisture are the enemy of A/C systems so system components should be capped or sealed whenever they are stored or before the whole system is connected up.
To flush out the compressor with oil first empty out whatever oil is in there. Then pour 2 to 3 ozs. into the suction port. Do this with the ports facing upward. Then turn the inner compressor hub by hand to circulate the oil. Then hold the compressor with the hub and clutch facing up in a vertical position and allow the oil to drain out. If the compressor has sat open uncapped I would repeat this at least twice before the final oil fill. All the system oil can be put into the compressor as it will quickly circulate through the system when the system is charged.
Excellent thread on how these systems work. I can maintain a system (freon fills, oil, parts swap) but never fully understood how these systems went together. This thread goes on my bookmark list!!
Pete I did get the pressure switch issue resolved. I had heard to use mineral oil on the green O-rings. I bought a whole bunch of them a while back but don't have any oil yet. Can I use PAG for that as well?
I have the expansion valve that came with all this stuff and it's all gently used. It has only one capillary tube. Can I reuse it? It looks clean in and out.
I'll get a model number on that compressor tomorrow.
I tried to find a way to drill a small hole in the top of the A/C box. The only way I can see this happening without taking half the car apart is removing the bulkhead connector (again) and try to drill a hole in the box through the revealed opening in the firewall. IF it means the hole will be above the evaporator then It's worth a try. I'll have to be real careful not to drill too deep though.
I took two pics out of the A/C box restore sticky and circled the box bolt that can be seen in my pic under the bulkhead connector hole. The part of the box that is visible has a narrow flat ridge and in incline. I circled them in green on the other pics. One shot is from the inside of the box so I just need to know where the hole goes, stick the thermostat's capillary tube in and screw the thermostat against the box or the car's frame. Thoughts?
Dino,
525 A/C mineral oil is better to use on the O rings. There is some thought that PAG can be slightly corrosive when exposed to moisture and air. I've always used mineral oil.
A used expansion valve is always a risk, if it is clean and the capillary tube is okay, it might be worth trying. Again when this stuff was removed from the original system it should have been capped off to keep out dirt. The risk you run is that if dirt did get into it, you may have problems with it in the system. If it turns out to be bad you will have to recover the R134 charge in the system and replace the valve and recharge the system. I'll leave you to judge whether you want to gamble on it. The other way out of this is to find an original Chrysler suction line rebuild it with new barrier hose and fittings to match the compressor and use the factory stock expansion valve you have.
On the evaporator core and access to it, I couldn't find a good picture of the inside of a B body heater/ A/C unit. You want the capillary tube to run through the evaporator fins for at least several inches. I don't know what you'll get just drilling a hole and inserting the tube. I suspect CAA did it the way they did to avoid having to take the evaporator unit apart. But, as you know short cuts often don't work all that well.
Hi Pete,
I would buy a new expansion valve but all the ones I find are the dual capillary type like the one I have. Would it not work by cutting the one cap off?
I looked at the other valve that came with this system and it looks brand new. The threaded ends were tightly wrapped in aluminum foil. The capillary is not kinked and the curly end is untouched. I wonder if the A/C place can do a flush before filling just to get everything out. In any case, if I find a new single cap valve I'll buy it.
I always wondered what the evaporator looked like, the previous owner capped the ends but I have no idea how long it was disconnected before this was done. Can I vacuum it out somehow? Literally by capping one end and sticking the shop vac in the other? :icon_smile_big:
I removed the compressor and for some reason I thought it sat uncapped for a while, but it wasn't. I think my old RV2 sat uncapped. I removed the drain bolt, spun the hub and nice, clean oil came out. :2thumbs:
The drain bolt has a black rubber o ring, do I need to replace it? Is it A/C specific?
There is not much info on this thing. On the bottom of the body it says :7803 A04
I am divided on what to do with the thermostat switch. I am a bit hesitant to drill into my A/C box blindly. I was thinking about it this morning, what are the odds that I can drill a hole that would allow me to feed the capillary through the firewall, into the hole, and straight down between the fins of the evaporator IF that's where it is. That does not sound likely to me. It seems several people run it with the capillary wrapped around the liquid line's metal end without issues. I guess it's better than not having one at all and maybe getting an adjustable switch will make the difference.
Works case scenario that forces me to remove the whole box is that the lines and evaporator freeze, resulting in insufficient flow correct? I may have to take the chance. There just is no simple solution to this. I still have a good amount of work to do on the car and I have not heard it's sound of music rattling out of the tailpipes since 8/18. I wanna drive! :lol:
Even after all this there will still be plenty work to do, but I can't do it all at once. I will finally have some time off from school, after more than 3 years, and I want to enjoy the car for a bit before I tear into it again.
I will keep looking for a way to get that cap in the box, but I don't see it yet.
Quote from: Dino on June 17, 2014, 07:14:59 AM
Thanks gentlemen, it's starting to make a bit more sense now. Good idea using the fan bolt, I'll have to do something like that. :2thumbs:
Yesterday I decided to unscrew that brass thingy, I probably shouldn't have as it went psshhhhh. :lol:
W&R that is the same spot on your drier where your switch is, but the fitting on my switch is smaller than the drier fitting. Did you get an adapter?
Nope, no adapter. The switch came with the drier ($30 ebay purchase, the one CAA supplied was too small and didn't fit the stock bracket) so it was matched to fit.
Drilling blindly into the a/c box is a little too risky for my blood. You could be opening up a whole new set of problems if you damage the evaporator core. If you are not going to remove the box, then I would just run the tubes around the line. It might not be the best way but it does work fine.
Quote from: WHITE AND RED 69 on June 19, 2014, 01:32:27 PM
Quote from: Dino on June 17, 2014, 07:14:59 AM
Thanks gentlemen, it's starting to make a bit more sense now. Good idea using the fan bolt, I'll have to do something like that. :2thumbs:
Yesterday I decided to unscrew that brass thingy, I probably shouldn't have as it went psshhhhh. :lol:
W&R that is the same spot on your drier where your switch is, but the fitting on my switch is smaller than the drier fitting. Did you get an adapter?
Nope, no adapter. The switch came with the drier ($30 ebay purchase, the one CAA supplied was too small and didn't fit the stock bracket) so it was matched to fit.
Drilling blindly into the a/c box is a little too risky for my blood. You could be opening up a whole new set of problems if you damage the evaporator core. If you are not going to remove the box, then I would just run the tubes around the line. It might not be the best way but it does work fine.
No, not pulling the box, not now. The car would be on stands forever.
I'll get an adjustable thermostat and wrap the wire around the hose. That's the hose coming from the expansion valve right? Same spot as where you wrap the expansion valve capillary? What is the tape called you wrap it up with? Insulator tape? I've seen a few tapes and I'm not sure which one to get. Isn't this plain dum dum?
Yep, all the tubes get wrapped around the line going to the evaporator and covered with the tape like in the pic ODZKing posted.
The tape used is called refrigerant tape or cork tape.
http://www.restomodair.com/view-all-products/small-parts/
You can also get a kit with the oil, o-rings, and tape from CAA for about 15 bucks.
The 7803 translates to a Sanden SD7H15 series for a GM/Chevy application. It uses a PAG 100 oil. In an expansion valve system the compressor calls for 4.6 Oz's of oil. Oil circulating around the system gets trapped in various components about 2 Oz's in the evaporator, 1 in the condenser and .5 to 1 in the receiver/drier. So, I would use 8 to 8.5 Oz's as the compressor oil fill. The factory ships these compressors with 270 CC of oil which is about the 8.5 Oz's. Since you really don't know how much oil is in the compressor it is best to start fresh, do the oil flush routine and then fill with the final amount. The final fill goes in that oil drain/fill plug you removed and yes always use new O rings whenever you remove one in an A/C system. You should be able to match one up from your O ring assortment.
There are two types of PAG oil around the older is a single end capped molecule the newer is double end capped. Find double end capped if you can it is less prone to absorbing moisture. You might also be able to find it with Ultra Violet dye added which would help in future leak detection. If not you can add the U/V dye later.
Expansion valves don't really flush out well because the orifice in them is so small. You can try the single tube valve you have if you think it is really clean. I would not cut the second tube off the stock valve.
Flushing the evaporator with a small auto parts flush can kit really doesn't work well as you can't get enough flush solvent or pressure behind it. You don't flush compressors, expansion valves or most newer condensers.
The expansion valve capillary tube and if you choose to, the thermostat switch tube wrap around the suction line from the evaporator to the compressor. The line with the expansion valve is the liquid line from the receiver/drier.
Thanks guys!
I don't know why I keep mixing up liquid and suction lines, good thing I can't install them wrong!
I think I'm going with this switch as I can mount it on the firewall and still adjust the temp.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261456058618?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
EDIT: I see that is supposed to be for cable operation. I don't plan on doing that as I could just as easily pop the hood and adjust it if needed, but is this the kind of switch I want? It still cycles the compressor clutch does it not?
I can't seem to find 525 weight mineral oil, is there anything else I can use?
Can I use a green o-ring for the drain plug on the compressor? I thought I couldn't.
Dino,
You can use the green HNBR O ring on that compressor plug. I get almost all my Automotive A/C stuff from Arizona Mobile Air at ackits.com. They will have all the oils you need and I would give them a call and ask about what they have in the way of thermostat switches. I looked on their site the other day and they had several adjustable switches.I'd ask them about the expansion valve also if you want a new one. They should have double capped PAG 100 with U/V dye.
If you order your oil and supplies from these guys get some Nylog O ring assembly lubricant rather than mineral oil.
A small bottle of Nylog is better than getting a quart of mineral oil and the Nylog really works well on preventing leaks. Nylog for R-134 systems used to come on a blue bottle.
That Nylog looks pretty amazing. I'm going to give that a shot. Are expansion valves universal? I did find some with only one cap so if they fit I'll get one of those instead of using the other one. The switches are the same as the ones I found elsewhere. I still want to use the last one I linked that is the slider type IF it works for my application. Sure looks like it would work.
Is there a right way to attach the capillaries to the hose? Does it wrap around it before taping it up or simply clamping it on there before taping?
I would think all those thermostat switches you've looked at are intended to measure evaporator temperature and keep the evaporator from freezing but, it sure would be nice if they gave an approximate temperature range they covered.
The way the factory system placed the capillary tube from the expansion valve was to insert it in a special well in the suction line for about 4 to 5 inches. This gave a really good amount of contact area. From the photos that Bob posted of the CAA set up The metal suction line section is quite short so I don't think you have any other option but to wrap the capillary tube or tubes around as best you can.
Expansion valves are not truly universal, some are calibrated for R12 like your factory stock type and some of course are today calibrated for R-134. As far as inlet and outlet fittings I'm sure they have also changed over the past 40 years and it's likely there are metric pieces out there today. I would measure the diameter and thread count on your stock evaporator fitting and do the same for the liquid line CAA supplied. Almost everything round today is R-134 so that will likely not be an issue. The valve you want surely exists as Bob seems to have one on his car.
Yeah I'll find a new valve, I'll measure up the threads and go shopping.
What is a good temp range I should be looking for with the thermostat switch?
I took a gamble and ordered the lever slider thermostat switch. For $15 it's worth a shot. I also found and bought a new expansion valve, 32 oz of Supercool double end capped pag 100 with uv dye, which should be plenty to flush and fill the compressor, cork tape, and a bottle of blue nylog.
While I was shopping I found an old set of corbin pliers for $5 so I grabbed that as well. I tried to put one of those heater hose clamps on with channel locks and spent a few minutes looking for the darn thing after it flew across the garage. :lol:
I've never seen temperature ranges specified on those switches even though it would be handy to know. I've had asset of those hose clamp pliers for many years, it's amazing how far those clamps can fly when you try to use plain pliers.
It looks like you are well on your way supply wise. Are you planning on assembling the A/C system as soon as everything arrives? Also, Have you given any thought to vacuuming down the system and charging it with R-134?
I think the little corbin clamp almost reached 20 feet in the air so I'm glad it was going away from my face!
I should have everything here by next weekend. I am unsure on how to proceed. It will be filled with R134a so my thought was to assemble everything and when the car is operational again, take it to the mom & pop A/C place in town to have the system vacuumed, tested and filled. If there's a better way to do it then I will revise my plans. I can keep all the A/C parts off until the rest of the car is ready. After assembling the A/C system and installing the new heater hoses, the rad and condenser, the under hood stuff will be pretty much done. I still have plenty to do to the interior and I need to replace the trans pan and filter among other things.
Quote from: Dino on June 22, 2014, 09:46:52 AM
I think the little corbin clamp almost reached 20 feet in the air so I'm glad it was going away from my face!
They are tough little buggers to deal with if you don't have the correct plyers for them.
These are like the ones I have. And even at that, they go flying sometimes.
(http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=33761.0;attach=53560;image)
Quote from: ODZKing on June 22, 2014, 12:34:40 PM
Quote from: Dino on June 22, 2014, 09:46:52 AM
I think the little corbin clamp almost reached 20 feet in the air so I'm glad it was going away from my face!
They are tough little buggers to deal with if you don't have the correct plyers for them.
These are like the ones I have. And even at that, they go flying sometimes.
(http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=33761.0;attach=53560;image)
Those look like the ones I just bought although they may not have the slider option, I'm not sure. I'm not running the big rad corbin clamps yet so it'll work.
I think we can do some sweet corbin clamp distance flying competition with regular pliers! Bring goggles. :lol:
Dino,
I think you could assemble the A/C system now and seal it up to be charged later. Remember to keep things sealed up and capped as you work and install the compressor second to last and the receiver/drier last. When you get it all installed and sealed up rotate the inner compressor hub clockwise 20 turns to purge any stray oil out of the compressor cylinders just before taking it to be charged. A good shop will know to do this but, I would feel better knowing it was done.
On charging the system, if you can rent or borrow a set of A/C gauges and a vacuum pump you could easily do it your self. You might want to check around with local auto parts places and see if they rent or loan out these items.
Quote from: Pete in NH on June 23, 2014, 08:28:53 AM
Dino,
I think you could assemble the A/C system now and seal it up to be charged later. Remember to keep things sealed up and capped as you work and install the compressor second to last and the receiver/drier last. When you get it all installed and sealed up rotate the inner compressor hub clockwise 20 turns to purge any stray oil out of the compressor cylinders just before taking it to be charged. A good shop will know to do this but, I would feel better knowing it was done.
On charging the system, if you can rent or borrow a set of A/C gauges and a vacuum pump you could easily do it your self. You might want to check around with local auto parts places and see if they rent or loan out these items.
Hey great idea! I'll ask if they rent that stuff and if not I'll try the local tool rental place, they have everything.
Regarding the compressor, when I have flushed it and refilled with ~ 8oz, can I mount it with the ports to the side without oil running out when I remove the caps? That is how the po had it mounted and it looked real nice as the big hose follows the heater hoses.
I just looked at the picture you posted of the compressor mounted on the engine. Those compressor ports are almost horizontal on the bottom. I suspect the oil will run out positioned like that. I would attach the lines before mounting the compressor. leave the nuts on the line fitting slightly loose until you get everything in the final mounted position and the tighten them up. That will keep the oil in.
I bought a small vacuum pump and gauge set many years ago and I can't tell you how many times over they have paid for them selves. Renting would work fine and you might decide later you would like to have the tools. One thing I like about having the tools is I can take the time to really do things in away a commercial shop really can't. I usually leave the vacuum pump on for at least two hours. The longer it runs the more water molecules I get out. Also, I like to let the vacuumed down system set over night. If the system is tight it will hold its vacuum reading over night and then I really know I don't have any leaks. A commercial shop just can't spend this kind of time on a job or at least you wouldn't want to pay for it.
I have a compressor and a brake bleeder vacuum pump but nothing for a/c.
I guess I can get these:
http://www.harborfreight.com/air-vacuum-pump-with-r134a-and-r12-connectors-96677.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/ac-r134a-manifold-gauge-set-60806.html
I picked the cheap vacuum pump because it is a simple device and should do the trick. I don't want to spend +$100 on a pump right now. $60 for the gauges is pretty decent I think.
Do I need anything else to do the whole thing besides R134a? How much would I need and which coolant is recommended.
If mounting the compressor sideways is a bad thing then I will put it on with the ports up, but if it's okay as is then I'll do what you say and get the hose on loosely first.
There's nothing wrong with mounting the compressor on the side like your photo shows, you just want to get it on without dumping oil out of a port.
The gauge set looks okay for casual work, that's all I have is an inexpensive set. That so called vacuum pump however, won't do the job in spite of what Harbor Freight advertises. Many people get fooled by that type of pump only to find out it won't pull a good enough vacuum. They wind up using a huge volume of air and still don't pull a good vacuum. you need to get down below 29 inches of vacuum. Only an electric motor driven pump can do that. I would rent one for now if you have to.
The only other thing you will need is some R-134A. Get only plain R-134A no sealers or other magic in a can. There is also no such thing as high mileage system R-134A, although they sell it, it likely has sealers in it.. You have U/V dye in your oil so you don't need that either. I can't stress enough how bad, bad, bad, sealers can be. CAA says there systems hold 24 Oz's of R-134A and I would start there. That's two 12 Oz cans, you'll need a R-134 can tap as well. I would get an extra can in case you have to add a few more oz's . If anyone reading this is curious about sealers I'll post why they are bad.
Good info Pete! :2thumbs:
I will look for a pump to rent, I just don't want to spend that much on a pump right now. The gauge set is on sale for $100 so I'll definitely grab that.
I looked for refrigerant and had no idea so many had leak sealer in them. Found this at Walmart which is conveniently located next to Harbor Freight! :icon_smile_big:
Looks pretty plain and not a bad price either.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Speed-Steed-R-134a-Auto-Air-Conditioning-Refrigerant-12-oz/20440563
That's the stuff, plain old R-134A. That looks like a very decent price also! Does that gauge set include a can tap? Most don't but you never know. You might have to get one separately.
Yes, the sealer stuff is very popular because people are looking for a cheap way out to get their A/C working again. Little do they know that if they use the silicate type sealer they can potentially destroy their entire A/C system and cost themselves thousands of $ in repairs.
I am unsure if the gauges come with a can tap. I'm picking it up today. I'll have all the A/C parts by Saturday so I'll be able to assemble the system, but the car is far from firing up so charging will have to wait a bit.
I was calibrating my gauges yesterday and I can't get my fuel gauge to read right, plus the needle on two are damaged so that's going to be a bit of a delay.
Got it all done! I bought 32 oz of pag oil and used half to flush the compressor. Better safe than sorry! I filled it up with ~8.5 oz and assembled the hoses. Stuck it in place and hooked it all up, drier last. Everything went together smoothly. I used Nylog on all threads and O-rings, that stuff is pretty amazing!
I mounted the adjustable thermostat switch where the balance resistor used to be so I have good access in case I need to adjust it, and so it's close to the evaporator tubes. The low pressure switch is on the back of the drier which worked out nicely to route the electrical.
This pic shows the first time in who knows how long the car has heater and A/C hoses again. It's still an ugly black engine bay, but at least it has a few things going for it now.
The long blue wire is the AC wire that needs to be cut and connected to the compressor, but I'm fresh out of connectors so I need to go shopping. Nothing fancy here, a bullet type maybe.
I spun the compressor about twenty times o circulate the oil. I won't be able to start the car for a while so when the time comes and I vacuum the system, would I not lose any of the oil?
Nice job Troy. :2thumbs: You did better than me, I had to call for help!!!
Quote from: Pete in NH on June 23, 2014, 12:22:56 PM
There's nothing wrong with mounting the compressor on the side like your photo shows, you just want to get it on without dumping oil out of a port.
That is actually the way they suggest mounting it in the instructions for Big Block. Small block is on top.
Nice job, Dino! You're getting really close to some cold air!
The oil will stay in the system when you vacuum it out, no need to worry. When you get close to charging it up, let me know and I'll type out the charging details.
Thanks Pete! Will do!
Can you rotate the fittings on the back of the compresor? It looks like the fittings are clockable. 5 bolts, I'm thinking you can rotate the fitting block a bolt hole over and it would work, I'm just not willing to void the warranty or dump oil all over the top of my engine.
Will,
I think the short answer is, yes because Sanden offers different port positions as an option. That being said, I would not try it. For sure not mounted on the engine. I would think you would want the compressor off the car and standing on its hub or you will have oil all over the place. Also, the valve plate is right under that port head and I suspect it too would have to rotate in some fashion but, that would be a question for Sanden or someone that knows more about those compressors than I do. There are also gaskets under the port head and valve plate that would have to be replaced, most of the time they are one time use metal crush types. You would also want the torque specs. for those bolts. Like I said, I wouldn't try it without some further research.
Dino,
I was just look at the picture of the finished installation again and noticed two things. The first is it looks like you are using the old R-12 serpentine condenser rather than a newer parallel flow type. Those were pretty big condensers so it may not be too big of an issue but, it will not be as efficient as things could be and A/C cooling may suffer under tough conditions with an R-134 system. Second issue is I noticed you don't have a fan shroud. That is going to be critical in moving as much air as possible through that condenser. Between the serpentine condenser and no shroud I think you are going to risk very high compressor discharge pressures under really hot weather conditions. I think you are at least going to want to get a shroud on that radiator/fan set up or add a high pressure cut off switch if things get out of hand pressure wise. I don't think CAA uses a high pressure cut off switch in their systems
Hi Pete,
It is the condenser that came straight from classic auto air so I doubt it is R12. It looks like the stock condenser but is not identical, I still have my old one.
I do have a shroud but it was not installed until two days ago. :2thumbs:
Quote from: Pete in NH on July 05, 2014, 06:23:01 PM
Will,
I think the short answer is, yes because Sanden offers different port positions as an option. That being said, I would not try it. For sure not mounted on the engine. I would think you would want the compressor off the car and standing on its hub or you will have oil all over the place. Also, the valve plate is right under that port head and I suspect it too would have to rotate in some fashion but, that would be a question for Sanden or someone that knows more about those compressors than I do. There are also gaskets under the port head and valve plate that would have to be replaced, most of the time they are one time use metal crush types. You would also want the torque specs. for those bolts. Like I said, I wouldn't try it without some further research.
Thanks for the reply Pete. I decided to rotate the compressor 90* instead of taking the back off. I considered it, but than figured that those gaskets inside were gonna rip or the o-rings would be flat. I'd rather have an exploded view before I jumped in. I saw the chart earlier in the thread, so I went with that option. Now all the under hood stuff as far as a/c is done. On to intake and more fun stuff. Hoping for noise tomorrow.
Hi Dino,
You should be all set with that shroud and it looks like a new fan drive! It was kind of hard to tell about the condenser with only being able to see the very top of it in the photo. But, I wanted to ask since you are getting so close to getting the A/C system working. That fan and shroud will move plenty of air through the condenser. :2thumbs:
Thanks Pete, I appreciate you looking out for me. :cheers:
The fan and clutch are pretty new. I installed them last year so I put maybe 1000 miles on it, if that. The shroud has never been on, my car didn't have one. The radiator is out of a C body so when I found a cheap shroud on ebay for one of those I jumped on it. :2thumbs:
Alright I guess I have done enough testing the car and since everything seems to work I guess it's time to charge the A/C!
I bookmarked a site somewhere on how to do this but any tips anyone may have are welcome. I have the A/C manifold kit, 3 cans of r134a and a can tap. And I have a loaner vacuum pump from Autozone.
There are two service ports in the system, a suction port and a discharge port. The suction port will be somewhere in the line between the evaporator and compressor. This will be the line that does not have the expansion valve connected to it coming off the evaporator. The discharge line will be the line running directly from the compressor to the condenser in front or the radiator.
The gauge set as you look at the front will have a high pressure gauge on the right side (discharge pressure) and a lower pressure/vacuum gauge on the left side (suction pressure). There will be two side wheel valves on each side of a three port manifold. The ports directly under each gauge are connected to the respective gauge above. The center port of the manifold can be connected to either or both sides and gauges by opening their respective side valves.
I would repeat turning the inner compressor hub 20 turns to again make sure there in no oil in the compressor cylinders or valves and remove the caps from the suction and discharge service ports.
To connect the gauge set to the car A/C system- Connect the RED hose to the gauge discharge pressure port (right side) and the other end of the RED hose to the discharge service port on the car. Connect the Yellow hose to the center manifold fitting and the other end to your vacuum pump port (some older pumps may need an adaptor fitting). Finally, connect the Blue hose to the gauge suction pressure port (left side) and the other end of the Blue hose to the suction service port on the car. At this point make sure both side wheel valves on the gauge set are closed (all the way in).
Start the vacuum pump and then slowly open both side wheel valves. The left side gauge should slowly start to swing down and register vacuum. Within 5 minutes or so you should be registering well below 20 inches of vacuum. If not, there is a leak somewhere and you will need to stop and find it. If the left side gauge goes down immediately into deep vacuum, it is likely the gauge hose couplers did not depress the service port valves. The suction side gauge should get down between 29 and 29.5 inches of vacuum. At this point you can let the vacuum pump run for as long as you want but, I would let it run at least 30 to 45 minutes. I like to let it run at least two hours to pull out as much water vapor as possible.
When you decide the vacuum pump has run long enough, close both side wheel valves tightly and then turn of the vacuum pump. At this point you will not open the discharge side wheel valve again and will work only with the suction side valve. Now you will let the system sit under vacuum and see if it will hold the vacuum over time. I let mine sit over night but, I would let it sit at least a few hours. The vacuum reading should not change except for very, very small changes due to ambient temperature changes.
If the system has held its vacuum well you are ready to charge it with R-134. Take your R-134 can tap and turn the top T handle or valve all the way out (counterclockwise). Now thread the can tap onto the top of the R-134 can and then remove the yellow hose end from the vacuum pump and attach it to the can tap fitting. Now run the can tap valve back in (clockwise) to puncture the seal on the top of the R-134 can and then run it back out counterclockwise to allow R-134 into the yellow hose. Loosen the manifold end of the yellow hose to allow the R-134 to purge the air out of the yellow hose and then re-tighten the hose fitting on the manifold.
Now turn the car's ignition switch to the on run position but do not start the engine. And turn the A/C on. Set it to Max. Air or recirculate with the blower on high with the car's windows down. Now, slowly open the suction side wheel valve on the gauge set to let the system vacuum draw in the R-134. At some point the R-134 will pressurize the system to the point of allowing the low pressure cut-off switch on the receiver /drier to close and the compressor clutch should pull in. You now have enough R-134 in the system to carry oil around and lubricate the compressor. If it is a cool day you may have to help the R-134 out of the can by setting it in a pan of warm water not over 120 degrees. You should be seeing 50 to 60 pounds of static pressure on the gauges. Close the suction side wheel valve and start the car's engine. The compressor hub should be spinning and you can start to slowly re-open the suction side wheel valve and pull in the remaining R-134 in the can.
At some point the can will be empty. Close the suction side wheel valve, remove the yellow hose from the can tap and repeat the procedure for attaching the can tap to the second R-134 can and purging the yellow hose. With the hose purged, slowly open the suction side wheel vale and pull in the second can of R-134. CAA calls for 24 ounces of R-134 in their systems and you should be there with two cans. At this point close the suction side wheel valve again. The suction side gauge should be reading some where between 22 and 28 pounds of positive pressure and the discharge gauge should be over 150 pounds perhaps as high as 275 pounds or a bit higher depending on ambient temperatures and air flow through the condenser. You should be making cold air inside the car. The discharge line off the compressor will be too hot to touch and the suction side line on the evaporator should be cold.
Classic Air says your system holds 24 oz. of R-134, that's two cans. You may have to add a few Oz's from a third can to make up for refrigerant trapped in the gauge set hoses.
If things look good, turn off the A/C system and engine. Disconnect the gauge set hoses from the system service ports and replace the caps on the service ports. YOU ARE DONE!
The EPA would like you to have an under hood label stating the type and amount of refrigerant in the system as well as the type and amount of oil used. This is very useful to anyone servicing the system in the future as well as yourself a few years down the road when you forget exactly what you did!
Pete you rock! :cheers:
I will follow your instructions to a T and get this done! :2thumbs:
Very good idea on the label, I would probably not remember what oil I used a year from now. :lol:
Quote from: Pete in NH on August 25, 2014, 07:50:54 AM
If the left side gauge goes down immediately into deep vacuum, it is likely the gauge hose couplers did not depress the service port valves. The suction side gauge should get down between 29 and 29.5 inches of vacuum. At this point you can let the vacuum pump run for as long as you want but, I would let it run at least 30 to 45 minutes. I like to let it run at least two hours to pull out as much water vapor as possible.
Hi Pete,
The left gauge goes down to almost 30 as soon as I open the valve at the line, so before I even open the manifold gauge knob. I reinstalled the pressure couplers a few times but don't see anything wrong with them. The pump is currently running and showing just shy of 30mmhg vacuum.
Is this okay or no?
I shut the pump off quite a while ago and the needle reads about 30mmhg.
Hi Dino,
It sounds like the gauge set hose couplers are not opening the service valve ports. When you're pulling a vacuum you can slowly open both the left and right side valves on the gauge set. I say slowly, because as you do you will hear the vacuum pump change its sound as it tries to catch up with larger volume of air in the A/C system.The pump will sound sort of like a gurgling sound as it gets hit with the air. If you don't hear that, the pump is just pulling down the gauge set hoses and not the entire system.
Do the gauge set instructions say anything about what to do if the coupler does not open the service port? My R-134 gauge set is a Robinaire and I've never encountered that problem.
Dino,
I just had another thought. My Robinaire set couplers snap in place over the service port but then you have to turn a small wheel on top of the coupler to open the service port valve. Perhaps your couplers are the same and you didn't open the valve on top of the coupler. This was done to prevent discharging refrigerant to the atmosphere from what is trapped in the hoses, it's an EPA thing.
If your couplers are different post a picture of them.
Hi Pete,
The couplers do have a wheel that needs to be closed and opened but I followed your instructions along with the one that came with the manifold kit. I will try again today and see what it does. The gauge still reads around 30mmhg but it got there almost immediately. The compressor sound did change when I opened the manifold valves.
If the pump sound changed as you opened the valve you might be okay. If the pump is a large one it may pull the system down fairly quickly. My small Robinaire pump has to work on it a few minutes and you can see the gauge swing down slowly but steadily.
One way you will know for sure is if the R-134 goes in or not. If it held vacuum over night and you did have the whole system pumped down, you're in good shape- no leaks!
That may sound too good to be true; the pump is a 1.8 cfm model from the OEM brand and the gauge was at 30 in little to no time.
I will hook up a can and see what it does. Will it show on the gauges if it is charging?
I have the first can hooked up, when I slowly opened the blue manifold valve, pressure went up to 50, came back down to 20 fairly quickly, and is now slowly rising. It's at 26 psi at the moment after about 5 minutes charging. Should I wait with this can until pressure builds up or hook up the second can to increase pressure?
Also, I don't start the car until pressure is up and the compressor kicks in?
Edit: It was up to 30 as soon as I posted this.
Okay the pressure just went past 40, I think it's looking good! Man I can't wait to have functioning A/C in this car! :2thumbs:
Dino,
Sounds like things are going well! The compressor clutch should kick in very soon. You may want to use the pan of warm water trick to get the pressure up a bit. It's bit cool here today, only about 70 so I would definitely have to use the warm water trick. Yesterday it was in the 80's the R-134 would have went right in. But, even at 40 to 50 pounds static pressure you should be able to start the engine and compressor and get the oil moving around the system. With the compressor not running the pressure should be the same on both gauges. With the compressor started the suction side will be somewhere around 20 lbs and the discharge side should start coming up over 100 lbs. Remember, the discharge paddle wheel valve on the gauge set should be closed and you will work from now on with only the suction side valve.
Hi Pete,
Problem. Compressor hub is not spinning and discharge side is at 80 psi. What do I do?
I had to shut the car off, nothing is happening. When I put the first can in the warm water, pressure went up to round 70. When I though the can was empty I closed the valve and put the second can on, but I forgot to check the clutch. I reopened it and pressure only slightly rose to around 80, it won't go past it and the clutch is not engaging. I'm going to see if I get power to it.
When I got back to the car I saw the pressure was up to 110. I started it back and opened the suction valve and pressure went back to 80. I shut it of again and checked for power. The way I have it setup is thermostatic switch to pressure switch to compressor. Power goes into the thermostatic switch, I have near 12v's running the fan on high with max a/c on and the engine off. But no power gets to the pressure switch and thus nothing to the compressor.
I am not going to work on this today so can I just close the can tap and suction valve and leave it like that for a few days?
Well, that's disappointing about no 12 volts to the pressure switch. You might try disconnecting the wires to the pressure switch and putting an ohm meter across its pins just to see if it's closed. It should be at 80 lbs. pressure.
I know that will not solve your power issue but it will tell you if you are good to go after you get power to the pressure switch.
If you are going to leave things for a few days, I would close the can tap and close both valves on the service fitting couplers on the gauge set and make sure both side wheels are closed on the gauge set. I would then disconnect the gauge set from the service ports. You may loose the R-134 left in the can if the can tap leaks. The system on the car should be fine until you get power to the pressure switch. You can reconnect the gauge set when you are ready to resume working on the system.
It's too bad you hit this little problem, I think you were well on your way to a working A/C system.
I got it to work!
The thermostatic switch is adjustable and has a lever on it. As soon as I moved it. it clicked and the clutch engaged!
I'm not sure where the slider needs to be but I'll figure it out. Now, with the third can hooked up, I filled a bit, then shut the suction valve and checked for pressure. It never got much above 10. Before I knew it the third can was empty and pressure is now between 7 and 17, depending on the rough idle of the engine.
It blows cold inside, but not a ton, I think it should be colder. Should I get another can and try to add it?
The factory fill of R-12 was about 42 OZ. CAA says 24 for their system. I think you are using the original factory evaporator which may be bigger than the CAA system. You typically use about 80% of the R-12 charge weight for R-134 which would be about 33 OZ. for the factory system. Three cans gives you about 36 OZ, I would not add any more. You may in fact be slightly over charged. Run the engine up to 1500 RPM and see what your suction and discharge pressures are. Also. place a thermometer in the center vent and see what the temperature is compared to the ambient temperature.
On setting the thermostatic switch you want he coldest setting that will not allow the evaporator to freeze up. Since you are using kind of a compromise installation on the switch capillary tube, finding the right switch position is going to be trial and error. For right now set it as low as it goes and see what happens.
I'm sure a bit of refrigerant was lost with purging and likely the cans did not get fully drained either so I may be okay still. At idle the suction read 17 or so for max and 7 for the low. Right side was around 165. Tomorrow I will rev it up and look at the pressure readings again. I only closed the suction side valve, not he coupler valve, if that matters. Since no more refrigerant should be added, can I go ahead and disconnect the gauges?
I will try to find an accurate temp reading. I was standing in the sun and was being baked by the engine heat so maybe the cool air coming out of the vents just didn't feel cold enough for me at that time. Sometimes it's hard to say. On an 85 degree day it may work fine but we touch the triple digits here sometimes.
I thought I had the switch set to the coldest but apparently that setting turns the power off. I have it all the way to the other side which may be the low or warmest setting.
I will report back tomorrow with my findings.
As always I sincerely appreciate your help. :cheers:
Lets get the center vent temperature and pressure readings at 1500 RPM before adding any more R-134. So, yes, for now go ahead and disconnect the gauge set. This may take some "dialling in"to get things set up since its no exactly a stock system. But again, I think you're getting close.
Today is going to be fairly hot and humid so a perfect time to test the a/c system. First I'm going to drive it a round a bit just to see what the a/c feels like. Then I'll take a temperature reading and measure the pressure on the system. I'll report back with my findings.
Well that didn't happen. Something came up and I didn't have the chance to do any work. I'll try again tomorrow.
It seems my thermometer is not registering much but it's a moot point, the system is not working properly. I adjusted the thermostatic switch a few times but that's not the issue, something else is going on. I have not yet registered the pressure but my guess is it'll be around 10 psi like last time.
With max a/c on and fan on highest, at idle the air coming out of the vents is cool. Not ice cold, just cool. It would take the edge off on a hot day, but not by a ton. Here's the funny part: the faster I drive, the warmer the air becomes. When I slow down, it becomes cool again.
I don't know why it does that but I think I may have to turn this over to a pro. There's a mom and pop shop close by, they fixed my leaky radiator a few years back for a ridiculously low amount so I'll take it there next week or so and see what they can do.
If you have any ideas I am happy to try something.
Hi Dino,
Two things to try-
1- Make sure the heater control valve is not letting any hot coolant through the heater core. Other wise the A/C and heater are fighting each other.
2- Lets get the gauge set back on there and get system pressures at 1500 RPM.
Also, I looked back through the thread but I'm not clear as to which Expansion valve you used and whether it was a new one or not.
Hi Pete,
The expansion valve is new. I ordered the one with the single capillary.
The heater valve is in good shape, it shuts off perfectly.
I'll get the pressure readings and will try another thermometer to get you some numbers. :2thumbs: