im putting in a 400 in my 72 but i figure id put a turbo on it. keep it bone stock and keep the boost at 8 or lower. i want to do it as a budget project. thinking about using an ebay gt45 turbo. no real power goal right now just wanna play a little and have the piping good for when i can build everything it will be rdy for a better turbo. anyone have exp with turbos would like some input. worried the gt45 will be to small.
Turbo specs now i can get them with a 70ar compressor and a 1.32ar turbine but the inducers and exducers are smaller on both sides compared
Compressor:
Trim: 69
A/R: .66
Inducer: 68.7
Exducer: 97.8
Turbine:
Trim: 92
A/R: 1.05
Inducer: 87.4
Exducer: 77
The gt45r which is double the price i know would work great and be able to produce hp close to 1k but im not going to run this engine close to that.
why a turbo?
Because thats what i want. Well i was going to put a jet engine in it but i dont have enough tape or sawsall blades hahahaha
i guess ill figure it out on my own
Out of all the Mopar site I hang out on I can think of maybe 3 cars that have a turbo so you'll likely have to sort most of it out on your own. I imagine it doesn't really matter what engine you bolt it to - the basics are all the same. Check out some of the more race oriented site like www.yellowbullet.com for ideas.
Turbo specific forum:
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=20
Troy
Quote from: Wicked72 on October 30, 2014, 03:43:49 PM
i guess ill figure it out on my own
Heck yes, give it a try. My son just couldn't leave is 2011 Challenger alone even though it had less than 700 miles on it just two months ago. He came up with this on his first try.
http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?72965-Boost!-We-don-need-no-stinkin-boost!&highlight=boost%3F+we+don (http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?72965-Boost!-We-don-need-no-stinkin-boost!&highlight=boost%3F+we+don)
He wanted to get just 500 HP at the flywheel............got 497 HP to the rear wheels.
carby or EFI? biggest problem you will have is the carby. Modifications needed to operate the power valve.
There was a time when turbo set ups were like Nitrous back in tge 80's. Misunderstood and expensive.
today, turbo set ups have become affordable. So much so, for about the same money as aluminum heads, I can blow the crank right out of a 440 @1300 HP using junkyard parts and a blow through carb.
put two small ones on.
Can u get away with less detonation than a blower? Seems thats all i hear is that with a blower your gonna need a lower ratio, but throw turbo into a sentence with same engine and people say, he'll yeah a turbo works just slap it on no tuning issues'?
Quote from: 1974dodgecharger on November 01, 2014, 06:22:00 AM
Can u get away with less detonation than a blower? Seems thats all i hear is that with a blower your gonna need a lower ratio, but throw turbo into a sentence with same engine and people say, he'll yeah a turbo works just slap it on no tuning issues'?
Boost is boost. Any time you compress air it heats up. Only reason turbos are killing blowers is they don't rob power to make power. Tuning is done regardless.
Quote from: Wicked72 on October 30, 2014, 03:43:49 PM
i guess ill figure it out on my own
Good for you. Not much "I'll figure it out on my own" going on anymore. Kudos to you. I think what you are wanting to do is very cool. I really don't understand why more guys don't do a blow-through, as that is pretty simple.
For me, this is what this hobby is about. More people will spend a week bantering about a question to a simple problem instead of spending 20 minutes under the hood with some tools.
Dont listen to the guys that say its dumb or you cant do it. We took my buddy's 4.7l ram and put a turbo off a 99 5.9 cummins on it. To make it more interesting, we made it a tailpipe turbo setup. In other words, we removed the muffler, and bolted the turbo in its place in the same location. They said it wouldnt work, they said the lag would be ridiculous, they said it couldnt be done. So.... we did it. And it worked. Hardest part was the oil return since it was "uphill" to the engine. Just used a small pump as a return. The was nearly instant boost, and way too much at that....lol. we blew up the stock intake since it was plastic during early testing. After adjusting pipe sizes and a wastegate, we had it running at 6 psi and the truck ran like a raped ape. He traded the truck in on a new diesel at over 100k still runningstrong.
Don't forget to get a decent "Turbo" style Cam grind.
It's fun blowing stuff up when you are young, ENJOY :2thumbs:
It'll go like a raped ape for awhile.
Dont think anyone here said it was dumb?
Id look at a blower before a turbo.
Blowers have come a long way in the last 20 years. The new stuff beats the old Roots types and the centrifugals.
Turbos demand lots of piping and you'll start wanting an intercooler fast. On a big motor it becomes a lot of stuff under there. Just the expansion & contraction of things from heat is enough to give sealing problems.
Either way, I do suggest this - keep the boost level low. You said 8 or lower and I agree that's good thinking.
Blowers/turbos are like nitrous. Give guys a chance to dump a lot more power into the motor and suddenly nothing is enough. Guys who were content to go from 300 to 350 hp over the course of ten years . . give this guy a kick up to 400 hp with a low-boosted blower, and suddenly he HAS to try 450 within a couple months. And then 500 a couple months after that. And then 550 --> kaboom. And then he's building a bigger bottom end to try for 600. Etc.
Quote from: Cooter on November 01, 2014, 07:15:54 AM
...Only reason turbos are killing blowers is they don't rob power to make power...
I think there are more reasons. One major reason is that a turbo is independent of the engine rpms, and thus can be more effective than a blower. The blower's belt connection to the crank rpms is a limiting factor IMHO.
limiting rpms. sometimes that's a good thing. read-kaboom.
pros and cons, imports vs domestic, turbo vs supercharger, just pic one you like :icon_smile_big:
QuoteI think there are more reasons. One major reason is that a turbo is independent of the engine rpms, and thus can be more effective than a blower. The blower's belt connection to the crank rpms is a limiting factor IMHO.
That's only a good thing if you care more about ultimate numbers than fun-to-drive.
The lack of hard connection to the crank means turbo lag. Very annoying for the driving experience.
The term "turbo lag" is from old skool thinking.
Today's hybrid turbos have virtually eliminated "lag".
Hey guys thanks for the encouragement. Im sorry i havent replied. Had a fight at work on steps (im a corrections officer) then totaled my daily driver a week later so ive been a pile of crap since the past month. If i were to do a blower i would want a kenne belle and everything would be just as custom as the turbo. hell maybe ill do a blower and turbo!! Anyway pricing it all out i can do a turbo fairly cheap and its very cheap to upgrade. Ill be using a blowthru, as efi is out of my price range atm. i will probably modify a holley. jegs has shorty headers i can use for manifolds and ebay the rest. Using my stock 400 with a edelbrock single plane intake. When money permits ill build a stroker 470 and upgarde the turbo to a gt70 ball bearing turbo.
Good choice and if you keep us updated I'll be following your project with keen interest.
With the turbo you are in no need of stroking your 400...you will have power enough... :cheers:
A good book to research some info on turbo Charging your car is Corky Bell's book Maximum Boost: Designing, Testing, & Installing Turbo Systems.
http://www.amazon.ca/Maximum-Boost-Designing-Installing-Turbocharger/dp/0837601606/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
Its not the be all and end all. Turbos are more complicated than supercharges but its a good place to start. I read it when I was looking to decide between turbo and supercharger and then life took over :(
I know that in the 70s ACCEL made a turbocharger kit that used a manifold that sat under the carburetor like a spacer plate and the piping connected under the carb and down to the exhaust. My cousin put one on a 68 Charger with a 383 and a 4spd, and it was downright nasty to ride in. Definitely made an impression with me as I bought my charger about a year later. I got to ride in it the summer of 77, got my charger the summer of 78.
Wish I could offer advice to you, I have a twin turbo dodge stealth that I've done work on but nothing like fabricating my own system, I put on larger turbos, boost controllers and many modifications eventually getting close to 450hp to the wheels with a 3.0L v6. Can't imagine what a dual turbo 440 would feel like. The single turbo my cousin put together probably was capable of mid 11s, but he also built race cars and worked as a mechanic for years.
The trick to avoiding turbo lag is having enough power by the motor alone to launch strong up to 2500rpm, and then the turbos kick in like a 2 stage rocket. It isn't that the newer turbos are more efficient or do not exhibit turbo lag anymore, its just that they starting matching the sizes of the turbos to the application where it was unnoticeable. The larger the turbo you put in, the higher the rpm that it usually begins building boost, and the more likely that you'll get lag. My turbos were absolutely dinky looking (13G's) but will hold boost to 26psi if I wanted to run it that high, I usually keep my boost set at approximately 14psi or 1 bar. Boost for me begins at 2300rpm and is at full boost at 3400rpm-6000 where they start to lose some boost on the high end, but at that point you're going so fast you don't care. Redline on the car is 7300.
small turbos = quick spool
big turbos = lag....
So moral of the story is find something that spins up fast enough (calculate your torque convertor off of the turbo spool rpm) but is big enough to move air up to the rpm band you plan on operating in....
The best thing would be EFI with your turbo with an external BOV - i've never ran a blow through turbo on a carbed system - tuned TT on a 1967 Chevelle for Rob Lake but that's about the extent of my brain cells... I though about a TT set up on a 318 poly but ended up selling that car when I enlisted - never got around to the TT set up.
I was originally going to do a single turbo on my 5.9 Magnum swap. Had the majority of the parts, and some of the motor internals set up for it, but life happened and I traded the main part "The Turbo" for some other goodies on my daily. But I'd be interested to see where you are on this project.