Looking at these 516 heads....new valves / mopar performance springs and some porting work done. I'm not sure what I'm looking at but the guy says the hairline marks(shown in two different ports) are casting marks......what do you guys think?
Those marks are core shift. 516 castings had it terrible. The "look" of the port doesnt mean much without flow sheets. Anyone can polish a turd. Wbat size valves are in them?
Looking like 2.08/ 1.60
$600 as done
Cannot look at a port job and conclude anything. What little I see is not impressive, but who knows?????
Consider aftermarket aluminum. Sidewinders from Todd Marsh maybe.
They look like someone just polished them up. Not a pro job. And with small valves, i would pass. For a few bucks more you can buy brand new aluminum ones that will outflow those by far.
For $600 bucks with stock valves ?
I think you are far better off springing $999. Total for a pair(2) of the Aluminum Stealth Heads
http://store.440source.com/Stealth-Aluminum-Cylinder-Head-COMPLETE-SINGLE-HEAD/productinfo/200-1055/
or Todd Marsh Sidewinder Heads here;
https://www.facebook.com/pg/Marsh-Performance-396335470471050/about/
Quote from: Challenger340 on January 29, 2018, 11:49:23 AM
For $600 bucks with stock valves ?
I think you are far better off springing $999. Total for a pair(2) of the Aluminum Stealth Heads
http://store.440source.com/Stealth-Aluminum-Cylinder-Head-COMPLETE-SINGLE-HEAD/productinfo/200-1055/
or Todd Marsh Sidewinder Heads here;
https://www.facebook.com/pg/Marsh-Performance-396335470471050/about/
When a person buys Stealth or Sidewinder aluminum heads do they require port work also or are they good they way they come but could be better with some machine work on them ??
It takes a fair amount of porting to get a 516 head to flow what an ootb Sidewinder, stealth, or E street head flows......even if they're at the lower end of what they flow ootb.
Stock 516's are in the 2-teens.
A decent valve job and bowl blend by someone with experience, 240-ish.
I think the flow for the typical stealth I've tested was mid-250's ootb.
I just gave a set the once over for a mild 383 build, 254@.500, zero porting.
Sidewinders are more like mid-260's, and an E street is usually over 270.
The sidewinder is the easiest for me to get into the 290+ range.
Quote from: PRH on January 29, 2018, 03:01:59 PM
It takes a fair amount of porting to get a 516 head to flow what an ootb Sidewinder, stealth, or E street head flows......even if they at the lower end of what they flow ootb.
Stock 516's are in the 2-teens.
A decent valve job and bowl blend by someone with experience, 240-ish.
I think the flow for the typical stealth I've tested was mid-250's ootb.
I just gave a set the once over for a mild 383 build, 254@.500, zero porting.
Sidewinders are more like mid-260's, and an E street is usually over 270.
The sidewinder is the easiest for me to get into the 290+ range.
290 at .500?
Quote from: PRH on January 29, 2018, 03:01:59 PM
It takes a fair amount of porting to get a 516 head to flow what an ootb Sidewinder, stealth, or E street head flows......even if they at the lower end of what they flow ootb.
Stock 516's are in the 2-teens.
A decent valve job and bowl blend by someone with experience, 240-ish.
I think the flow for the typical stealth I've tested was mid-250's ootb.
I just gave a set the once over for a mild 383 build, 254@.500, zero porting.
Sidewinders are more like mid-260's, and an E street is usually over 270.
The sidewinder is the easiest for me to get into the 290+ range.
Man, you're a wealth of info without even trying. :2thumbs:
Quote290 at .500?
Fair question.
It would likely take a fair amount of work to get you there, to the point where "better" heads might be more cost effective.
Sidewinder head, PRH valve job, back cut valves, blend bowls and chamber, square up intake port opening, remove ridge around exhaust opening:
Lift------in/ex
.100---71.0/59.0
.200--145.2/113.4
.300--208.8/153.7
.400--255.0/184.2
.500--283.1/209.1
.550--287.9/217.1
.600--287.9/223.2
These heads made 552tq/550hp with a .540 lift solid cam in a pump gas stock stroke 446.
516 head......
Fairly low mileage original head with OE valves(2.08/1.60)and OE VJ:
Lift-------in/ex
.100---60.9/47.3
.200--128.5/91.7
.300--178.6/120.2
.400--202.2/127.7
.500--217.3/133.9
.550--221.1/136.4
.600--224.9/137.6
Install ex seats and upgrade to aftermarket swirl polished 2.14/1.74 valves, PRH valve job,
Blended bowls:
Lift------in/ex
.100---74.0/55.8
.200--141.5/101.6
.300--196.9/132.6
.400--227.5/155.0
.500--240.0/167.4
.550--241.9/171.1
.600--243.8/172.8
OOTB Stealth head, rec'd from 440Source and tested about a month ago:
Lift------in/ex
.100---65.7/52.2
.200--134.8/101.2
.300--197.2/135.4
.400--241.2/159.0
.500--254.3/174.4
.550--256.1/179.8
.600--256.9/184.2
This is a different Stealth head, from last year.
PRH valve job, back cut valves, blended bowls:
Lift------in/ex
.100---72.1/59.6
.200--147.6/112.2
.300--210.4/144.4
.400--254.3/166.4
.500--273.7/185.9
.550--277.5/193.2
.600--280.5/198.1
283 @ .500 is impressive. :2thumbs:
I had a good set of 346 casting heads with 214/181 valves and minor port work done and they ran ok but I purchased a set of stealth heads and had Jim LaRoy to prep them for me and he sent me a flow chart after he done the prep and it showed 285cfm's at 500 lift on the intake and I think it was 239 cfm's on the exhaust at 500 lift. Really made a huge difference in the performance on my car. I don't ever see myself going back to a cast iron head after feeling the difference from going from a set of good built 346's to a prepped set of stealth heads. That's the best money I have spent on my car in a long time......
Quote from: PRH on January 31, 2018, 11:20:37 AM
Quote290 at .500?
Fair question.
It would likely take a fair amount of work to get you there, to the point where "better" heads might be more cost effective.
Sidewinder head, PRH valve job, back cut valves, blend bowls and chamber, square up intake port opening, remove ridge around exhaust opening:
Lift------in/ex
.100---71.0/59.0
.200--145.2/113.4
.300--208.8/153.7
.400--255.0/184.2
.500--283.1/209.1
.550--287.9/217.1
.600--287.9/223.2
These heads made 552tq/550hp with a .540 lift solid cam in a pump gas stock stroke 446.
Is there a set of numbers for these heads just out of the box to compare the difference the work done on them made ?
For that particular set:
Lift------in/ex
.100---69.2/53.3
.200--145.6/107.8
.300--207.8/145.0
.400--240.0/169.1
.500--257.7/177.8
.550--265.3/180.2
.600--268.3/182.7
I've got a new set of 84cc E Streets here...... I'll try and get an ootb number for one over the next few days.
Btw, 84cc E Streets are straight plug.
Quote from: PRH on February 01, 2018, 10:18:06 AM
For that particular set:
Lift------in/ex
.100---69.2/53.3
.200--145.6/107.8
.300--207.8/145.0
.400--240.0/169.1
.500--257.7/177.8
.550--265.3/180.2
.600--268.3/182.7
I've got a new set of 84cc E Streets here...... I'll try and get an ootb number for one over the next few days.
Btw, 84cc E Streets are straight plug.
Yep, :2thumbs: your numbers are almost identical to what we are seeing on our SuperFlow Bench, and again pretty same-same with the cleanup work.
And for us, the Sidewinder's do seem to respond better versus time spent on a
cost effective basic rework.
Much past the 290-300 between .550" to .600" cfm level, is then what becomes a challenge time-wise for us versus just buying better Heads ?
We've gone to 310 cfm @ .600", but again, I can see no point paying us to do that or higher.... versus just go BUY it in a better Head ootb ?
Jim or DC member Heyoldguy did the work on my Stealth heads.
Ryan Cox Stealth Flows
Lift...............IN/EXH OOTB...............IN/EX S/P ported
.100................69/55................................73/61
.200.............145/110.............................150/127
.300.............210/150.............................212/170
.400.............245/183.............................254/298
.500.............265/207.............................283/222
.600.............278/220.............................297/240
.700.............283/229.............................295/250
Valve spring 135# @ 1.900" installed height
310# @ .500"
350# @ .600"
.850" retainer to seal clearance
.750" coil bind
82cc combustion chamber
Just tested an 84cc E Street head(5093) ootb.
The intake port was surpringly good at high lift..... Probably the best ootb BBM RPM or E Street head I've tested.
Lot date of 05/21/17 for those interested.
Lift------in/ex
.100---67.2/53.5
.200--138.0/102.4
.300--205.2/139.0
.400--244.9/163.9
.500--273.0/181.7
.550--281.2/189.1
.600--286.1/192.7
Hard to beat for $1089.
Keep in mind with all these tests...... It's one port on one head...... So YMMV.
Jim (heyoldguy on here) must have really worked the exhaust on my heads. I wasn't sure but I still have the message he sent me with the flow numbers and it showed 285 cfm's @ 500 lift on the intake and 239 cfm's @ 500 lift on the exhaust. He wound up with 82 cc's on the combustion chambers giving me 10.2 to 1 compression. They really work great, it's amazing how a great breathing set of heads will compliment a good built engine.....
Quote from: PRH on February 03, 2018, 12:49:27 PM
Just tested an 84cc E Street head(5093) ootb.
The intake port was surpringly good at high lift..... Probably the best ootb BBM RPM or E Street head I've tested.
Lot date of 05/21/17 for those interested.
Lift------in/ex
.100---67.2/53.5
.200--138.0/102.4
.300--205.2/139.0
.400--244.9/163.9
.500--273.0/181.7
.550--281.2/189.1
.600--286.1/192.7
Hard to beat for $1089.
Keep in mind with all these tests...... It's one port on one head...... So YMMV.
Geezuz ? that is pretty darn decent for ootb !
Anything remarkable or otherwise sticking out as a reason ? Eddy up their seat/valve game a bit ?
I was as surprised as anyone...... But it is what it is.
My experience is....... Whether they're near the top or near the bottom of the "how they flow ootb" list, they usually all end up about the same if you do the same job on them.
The poorer flowing ones improve more than the "good" ones do.
Quote from: PRH on February 04, 2018, 01:02:07 PM
My experience is....... Whether they're near the top or near the bottom of the "how they flow ootb" list, they usually all end up about the same if you do the same job on them.
The poorer flowing ones improve more than the "good" ones do.
EXACTLY !
I was just curious if anything was "obvious" in the ootb delivery that would account ? ie; Seat/Valve prep as delivered ootb from eddy, because we can apply and see gains there immediately ?