Wasn't sure what topic to put this one, but I'll just start a new thread. Because for one I don't feel like posting it 6 times, and I don't need more post than just 1.
I spent 8 hours today going over all the information I have on Charger 500's. I know I had posted before that I knew of 160 or so VIN's. Well today I sat down and got it all organized. Wrote them all down on 1 piece of paper. Ordered them, and even added some notes to the page. Noted who some of the owners are, if they had A/C or were an SE car. Highlighted the ones I have fender tag info on, highlighted in a different color ones I have a copy of the builsheet for and so on and so forth.
Total count comes out like this.
220 Total Known 69 Charger 500's VIN numbers.
72 of those being HEMI 500's.
17 known to have A/C from the factory.
9 cars are known to me to be SE's.
4 of those are known to be SE's with A/C
So the question is, does anyone think they only made the 392? Seems odd to me after today that they would have only made 392, and after only 8 years of writing down information I'd accumulate over half of them.
The sheet that came with my car is from a 69 SE with an earlier # than mine.
Danny, that is a long time and dedication...... I still don't believe the nearly 580+ number....... But that's me and my rational....
Thanks for sharing..
Troy
Same here. We had talked before about attrition rates for 500's not being as severe as other musclecars because of the limited availability status they had right from the beginning.
I'm hanging my hat on the 392 peg still.
Ah I didn't have a whole lot else going on yesterday, other than watching the BJ acution last night. I can't believe that the Race Daytona didn't go for more than it did. I also had a hard time believing that the HEMI Cuda Convert went for $2M.
I did however locate 1 more VIN last night. Was putting all my papers into one folder for the first time, and ran accross another buildsheet. For another car. So make that 221 cars.
69-C-500 Hi Danny Boy;;; Sounds like you spent a lot of time doing research,good for you, keep up the good work. I was just reading the post on cloneing Daytona's. I started to respond, but decided not too. As the owner of three real ones, you can figure out my opinion.
Got the fence fixed. 3--daytona
I mentioned in another post, that I think a lot of the buyers at B-J would have no idea about Bobby Allison or what to do with a real Daytona. It probably is a better reflection on real world pricing on cars.
My understanding on the Cuda was that the deal was prearranged and it was only about generating publicity. I was told a week ago that it was going to go for 2 to 3 million (my "source" didn't know any details just that it was already sold). Who knows how true any of that is though.
Quote from: 3--Daytona on January 22, 2006, 11:11:54 AM
69-C-500 Hi Danny Boy;;; Sounds like you spent a lot of time doing research,good for you, keep up the good work. I was just reading the post on cloneing Daytona's. I started to respond, but decided not too. As the owner of three real ones, you can figure out my opinion.
Got the fence fixed. 3--daytona
Well, shiver-me-timbers !!! Jim...... You are still out there... :icon_smile_big:
Troy
Ah Welcome to the site Jim.
Glad to see ya posting. I didn't figure you'd post in a thread about these lowly 500's when you have 3 Daytona's. I don't think I'm going to make it out to Vegas this year, not enough funds in the bank to do it this year I don't think. Glad to hear ya got that fence fixed, and hope ya didn't have any cattle get loose while it was down.
One of these days I'll drive the 500 on down to MO to visit ya. And yeah if you ask my wife I spend way too much time collecting information on these cars, but what can I say, I LOVE THEM.
Quote from: 3--Daytona on January 22, 2006, 11:11:54 AM
69-C-500 Hi Danny Boy;;; Sounds like you spent a lot of time doing research,good for you, keep up the good work. I was just reading the post on cloneing Daytona's. I started to respond, but decided not too. As the owner of three real ones, you can figure out my opinion.
Got the fence fixed. 3--daytona
JIM!!!
How's our favorite resident from Jason Bourne's hometown?? I was just wondering last week how you were doing - the topic came up elsewhere about your Green Daytona and the Survivor group's reaction to it. Hope things are going well for you and that you're and as ornery as ever!
Geno
That Bobby Allison Daytona probably started life,as a 69 500,as did most of the race Daytonas!
Danny, you actually wrote all them down on paper?
Gotta teach you Excel buddy ;)
3--Daytona welcome to the site :cheers:
69_500,
As soon as I can, I'll have 2 more numbers for you and your data base.....I just have to get my butt over to a friends hose to get the info. Both 440 auto cars, one A4 with vinyl roof and a/c, the other is yellow with black gut.
I might have those 2 69 500s vins If those are cars .I seen along time ago .If these were the ones in Sufferen .One was gold with white painted roof.And the other car was A4 silver
Yeah Chris, I wrote them all down by hand on paper. I'm working on getting them all put in a spreadsheet. But I'm trying to figure out if I want them in a few different spread sheets. I would like them to be able to be sorted by VIN's in order, as well as being able to enter in the fender tag inforamation to be able to sort cars by how many had what options. Ie so if someone asks how many cars were R4 red, with black interior, and were 4 speeds I could get it figured up without having to sort through all the papers.
It is a stack of papers too let me tell ya.
One of these days I'll have it organized in a system that is fast and easy, but in the mean time I keep plugging away at it.At least now its all in the same pile of papers, and not strung in one room to another room to another room in our house, which made my wife happy. No longer have scraps of papes in the living room with VIN numbers on them, or telephone messages from 2 years ago with VINs and fender tag info on them in the kitchen.
Got a question for Ghoste, the first HEMI 500 is going up for auction right? RM auction in February? Did the advertise it in HEMMINGS? If so they put the wrong year, if not then is this the famed HEMI 500 from 1970 that was at Carlisle quite a few years back?
1970 Dodge Charger Beverly Hills, CA
DODGE: 1970 Charger 500, 426 Hemi, red with black interior and white bumblebee stripe, this is the Pilot Line car, yes, it's #1 and it's real! Documentation from Chrysler and Govier, a suitcase full, unmolested and completely original; being sold at the RM Collector Car Auction in Boca Raton, FL, Feb 10-12. Contact Donnie Gould, 954-566-2209, FL; or dgould@rmauctions.com
Are the 500's that you documented include only one's that are still around or some that have not survived as well? Curious to know how many are still around out of the 220 or more you have.
It includes quite a few that are known to have gone the way of salvage yards over the years. However there are quite a few that were found in junkyards that have since been restored and are being driven/stored as of now too.
I have 7 that are listed as being trashed and gone to junkyards. Then I also have 6 engines that I have seen over the years for sale, 4 HEMI's and 2 440's that bear Charger 500's VIN's but haven't ever seen the cars that go to them. So anybodies guess is what happened to these cars back in the day. Were the cars trashed and the motors salvaed? Or was the motor thought to be blown and someone bought it and rebuilt it, and the car is still out there somewhere? Also have a few VIN's that were to cars that were stolen and haven't been recovered as of yet too.
Wasnt that pilot 70 charger hemi the first made. That was a XP 29.I seen that car along time ago
Right but I don't think it is the 1970 Charger 500, because the add says origional and unmolested. Which to me rules out the 1 1970 Charger 500 i've heard of that had a HEMI.
I have personaly seen 3 500s in salvage yards in the late 70s.One was barrel rolled and junk,the other two were rebuildable by todays standards but not in the 70s.
I do make a note of the cars that were in junkyards and of which people tell me or that I see that I don't see how you would restore them without rebodying them. In those cases I put a note next to the VIN stating such. So that if they show up years later at a show, or restored then a potential buyer can know this information and not be sold on the idea of it being an all origional sheetmetal or such car.
I am almost sure these cars were crushed.This was a production yard and I don't think much stayed there more than 3 months.
I'm thinking that quite a few of the C500's were crushed years ago in yards that no one will ever know about. Because from what I can gather it seems that for years these cars weren't very well known. I mean I have talked to several origional owners who say that they origionally thought they were just getting another 69 Charger, and wasn't until later that they realized how rare it was.
Quote from: 69_500 on January 23, 2006, 12:41:23 PM
I'm thinking that quite a few of the C500's were crushed years ago in yards that no one will ever know about. Because from what I can gather it seems that for years these cars weren't very well known. I mean I have talked to several origional owners who say that they origionally thought they were just getting another 69 Charger, and wasn't until later that they realized how rare it was.
That was me,I didn't know there was a difference till I saw my car parked beside another 69 charger and thought I got screwed.Little did I know I got a deal of a lifetime.
I had heard the story from you at Carlisle yes, but I have talked to another gentleman who bought a 1969 Charger 500 off of a used car lot in 1971 and thought he had bought a modified Charger R/T. He thought someone had put on a Coronet Grille and monkeyed with the car. It wasn't until years later that he found out those were done by Creative Industries.
Know of another guy who bought a HEMI 500 and has had it for years but had only thought he bought a HEMI R/T until he decided to finally beging restoring the car. He knew it was a HEMI car when he bought it but had no idea what a 500 was. I believe he told me he bought the car in 1972 or 1973. So there was quite a few of them out there that many people didn't really see as different until years later.
It's a mistake in Hemmings. Donnnie Gould handles the Florida sales and he is essentially a Shelby guy. He can do with Shelby vins what you do with 500's Danny. So details on that ad weren't at the foremost of his mind, IF he wrote the ad. It could just be a misprint on Hemmings part. Donnie did have a 70 Charger RT that he sold last fall so maybe that's where the confusion started? I don't know but the ad is supposed to about 69 XX number one.
(you should see the blank stares I get when I try to talk about the incorrect broadcast sheet)
Well I don't think many people would notice that it is the wrong broadcast sheet. I mean other than the wheels, and the VIN number there aren't any differences that I can see. Both cars have the same options, same exterior color, same interior color, oh and one is a 4 speed and one is an automatic. Heck the owner showed me that broadcast sheet 2 years ago at the Chrysler Classic and I didn't even notice that it was for another car. Then again all I did was glance at it. Should have stared at it.
Except that, it is being sold as having complete and accurate documentation.
Well it could be stated as being accurate documentation. I mean that is the braodcast sheet that was in that car. It just doesn't belond to that car. The rest of the documentation he has for the car is incredible.
Since they are the one and two cars and they both have the vinyl and cloth interior, I'd be willing to bet the automatic car has (had?) the broadcast sheet for the four speed car.
69 500:
How does your list compare with the "old" list from the early Winged Warriors days?
By the way, if you want some help getting your info into a spreadsheet form which is more manageable, I'd be glad to help. I'm off work for a few more weeks due to having some broken bones in my spine repaired, and have lots of time on my hands!
I'm also pretty darn good at this "computer" stuff...
The last spreadsheet I put together at work managed over 30,000 VINs, and all their respective details!
Mike
How does my list compare to the "old" Winged Warriors list. Well the list they had in 1979 I have a copy of. Any other list they put out since then I haven't seen. So I do know of the ones on their 1979 list, all ofthe other VIN's I have are from just countless phone calls, personl road trips, car shows, and such.
How did you wind up with broken bones? Accident at work? Or was it a planned surgery, or what? Your not too far outside of Detroit are ya? I'm located right on the Southside of Indianapolis.
Horseback riding accident last year... Had my young daughter with me and the horse went bolting towards the barn. Couldn't hold on to her and the horse at the same time, so I wrapped my arms around her and waited for the worst. Landed flat on my back. She, thank God, was completely unharmed as I broke her fall.
I, on the other hand, had several broken vertebrae as souveniers from that day...In the ER they told me I wasn't at risk for paralysis, but would have to get it fixed sooner or later. I said, see you later, then!
Couldn't take the pain any longer so I had them cut me open, & they took out the broken stuff and cut some donor bone from my pelvis and patched it all back together. Can you say ouch??!!
This pic is of my 2nd daughter; my 3rd daughter & I are on the white horse in the background prior to setting out for the fateful ride...
Here's another pic that shows how big the horse was, and why I could not "reign" her in when she bolted. I'm just under 6' tall and about 210, and had a hard time just getting my feet up in the stirrups to jump on.
I've since learned how incredibly dangerous it is to ride double, for exactly the reason with what happened to us.
Ah now I see. Well at least ytour daughter was unharmed. Definately being a dad in that situation, its instinct to protect your child rather than brace yourself.
Glad to hear all is for the better now.
I might take ya up on the offer to help put the info into a database. I've been working on getting it all organized before I put it in a database/spreadsheet because I want to make sure that I get all the info in there, and that I don't duplicate anything. I'm trying to weed out all the errors, and duplicates before hand. Should take less time to enter it that way.
HEY GHOSTE, was going to PM this to you but your box was full.
Do you recall what day you sent out the video? I was just wondering, because it still hasn't arrived. I didn't know when you sent it, but was just letting ya know.
When I get it, I'll copy down the address you have on the package and you'll receive a DVD in return for the video. The question is which one do you want.
Mopars at the Strip 2005
Atlantic Mopar nationals 2005
Chryslers at Carlisle 2005
Monster Mopar in St. L 2005
Charlie Glotzbach interview
Suds Cruise in (in concjuction with Hot Rod Magazine) 2005
or wait for the Monster Mopar in Indy 2005 DVD?
Just let me know.
My first thought was, how could it be full? Then I checked. :o So I'll fix that right away. You should be getting it any time now but with the borders the way they are now and it's a package, well, it may take longer.
As to returning anything, you should watch it first and decide if it's any good. If it is, Charlie Glotzbach I guess.
Okay, no problem, I'll warn ya though the Charlie interview has hardly no editing done to it. So it is just straight forward how we taped it. I did that with the intentions of advertising it in the Winged Warriors newsletter but never got around to contacting Sue about it.
It's a great interview, some good stuff in there. Although, I did catch a comment or two about "We'll edit that out"...
:icon_smile_big:
Yeah my dad did the interview, but we decided to leave it unedited, because they were going to type up the whole interview in the news letter. So by doing some editing we were going to lose some of that. So we made the decision to go with it as is. In the Monster Mopar DVD we used some of the interview, but did editing to it.
Has it arrived yet? I have another thing here if you want it. It's RM's catalog for the Boca auction with the car in it. I was told today that I won't be at Boca so I'll have to find out after the fact where the car goes.
Quote from: 69Charger500 on January 24, 2006, 03:07:32 PM
Couldn't hold on to her and the horse at the same time, so I wrapped my arms around her and waited for the worst. Landed flat on my back. She, thank God, was completely unharmed as I broke her fall. I, on the other hand, had several broken vertebrae as souveniers from that day...In the ER they told me I wasn't at risk for paralysis, but would have to get it fixed sooner or later.
Wow. Now that's LOVE. Awesome thing you did for your daughter!
Don't you have kids CA? That's just parenting man. It's instinctive love and you'd sacrifice your own life or take someone elses to preserve your child.
Which by no means takes away what he did.
Nope no package yet, I'll look in the mail again today.
Yes that is definately good parenting, and yes it is LOVE.
I know of another guy who has a 69 500 it was from NJ .Hector Almonte formerly owned that car.It was from Weehauken NJ .That car is one vin number lower than 69 500s car.Last owner after him was a Mike H.Anybody know him or if he still has the car lastime I heard from him he was working on it in 2001
Hey Danny..
Just got connected to another C500 owner out of Florida.... He has a F8 440 4speed C500 that was painted black prior to his ongoing restoration.. He may show up here.. I told him about the various Charger/Mopar sites.. Hopefully he'll pass on his info for your database..........
Troy
Hopefully he will join the site and chime in on the ongoing threads, or start a new one and tell us about his car.
I hadn't heard of any cars being 1 VIN lower than my car. I know of a few that are close to my VIN, IE my dads old car being 3 higher, and then the one after that and then the one following that one. Don't have any info on one lower than my VIN. I have info on a car that is 2 digits in front of my car, well not a lot, just the VIN.
I now have 222 cars in the list that I've been keeping.
Also of note ChargerAficianado, I know have 4 69 Charger 500's that are SE's with A/C. Your car, is one, Alex in Georgia who posted on here not too long ago has another, and there are 2 that I just looked at today.
Quote from: 69_500 on February 03, 2006, 02:25:18 PM
I now have 222 cars in the list that I've been keeping.
Also of note ChargerAficianado, I know have 4 69 Charger 500's that are SE's with A/C. Your car, is one, Alex in Georgia who posted on here not too long ago has another, and there are 2 that I just looked at today.
Hey Danny, how many 440 4-speed cars do you have?
Troy
That will take me a while to figure out, but I'll get back on here and post that when I get it added up.
Okay breaking it down as fast as I could, I have 13 cars that I know of that are 440 4 speeds. There is a lot of cars that I know the VIN of and exterior color, but don't know the transmission for them though. As a matter of fact Troy I don't think my list even includes your car at all. So it could be 14. I am only showing 1 car that is the color of Dana in the list being a 4 speed, and it isn't Dana.
Quote from: 69_500 on February 03, 2006, 04:06:43 PM
Okay breaking it down as fast as I could, I have 13 cars that I know of that are 440 4 speeds. There is a lot of cars that I know the VIN of and exterior color, but don't know the transmission for them though. As a matter of fact Troy I don't think my list even includes your car at all. So it could be 14. I am only showing 1 car that is the color of Dana in the list being a 4 speed, and it isn't Dana.
I know of two... One that's a 426 Hemi 4-speed T7/T3 in Jersey I believe and this one from the info I got from the owner at the time.... I remember getting an interior picture of this car and it was just like Dana.... Do you need Dana's VIN? Also, the hemi one I previously mentioned is one digit off mine, the car right after Dana.. :icon_smile_big:
Well if you include the HEMI 4 speeds then that number goes up, but I was only counting the 440 4 speed cars.
Is that the car that was for sale on cuda.com about 3 years ago? I called that guy about those cars when I saw those, but he had already sold them before I called so he didn't have any info on them anymore.
Quote from: 69_500 on February 04, 2006, 08:59:18 AM
Well if you include the HEMI 4 speeds then that number goes up, but I was only counting the 440 4 speed cars.
Is that the car that was for sale on cuda.com about 3 years ago? I called that guy about those cars when I saw those, but he had already sold them before I called so he didn't have any info on them anymore.
Yeap, that's the car.... Just like Dana except with a woodgrain wheel.......
Troy
Well if you have any info on that car I'd love to add its information as well Troy.
Like I said before my list is only partial, but I'm always looking to add any more information to make it more complete. If you add the HEMI 4 speeds I think it would probably be closer to 30 total 4 speed cars that I've seen.
See when I first started collecting this information all I did was write down VIN numbers and exterior colors. I didn't bother looking at fender tags to write that stuff down, or even the interiors. As the years progressed I started making more notes on cars.
Just figured I'd add a little update to this with the new information I've received lately.
Now total VINs are 229
75 of those being HEMI's
20 cars with A/C
9 known SE's
4 cars are SE's with A/C.
Just an update here but now the list is up to 231 cars.
Troy did you ever hear anymore from the gentleman in Florida with the HEMI 500 that was primered black?
also HEMI Doug did you ever happen to go by and get any information off of those 2 500's in your area? The A4 silver one or the Y2 yellow one.
Quote from: 69_500 on August 16, 2006, 07:24:12 PM
Just an update here but now the list is up to 231 cars.
Troy did you ever hear anymore from the gentleman in Florida with the HEMI 500 that was primered black?
also HEMI Doug did you ever happen to go by and get any information off of those 2 500's in your area? The A4 silver one or the Y2 yellow one.
Do you think your total number is close to the number of 500s that still exist sense you have close to half of total?? production
I personally don't know the answer to that question. I'm still under the impression they only made 392. I guess until I've seen 393+ then I"ll stick to that figure. If there is close to 500 then I'd be shocked.
Danny, I recently picked up an old magazine from February 1969 called Motorcade. It was out of LA and it had another Hemi 500 road test in it. They are testing the automatic car so maybe it's the same one Lindeman was beating on?
Just an aside.
Hmmm, guess I'll have to look for that magazine in the future as well. My question is still whether or not the AT Lindeman beat on, was it the 110614 car or not. If it is, man I'd well you know.
Yeah, and unfortunately this magazine doesn't offer a whole lot of detail so it isn't like you can spot the vin or anything like that.
Well does it show an interior shot? Does it have the chrome shifter knob instead of the woodgrain? Rear bezels painted body color not stripe color? Any dent in the drivers quarter above rear wheel? Power window controls?
:)
I'm trying to post the article but I've been having trouble. But to quickly answer your questions; chrome shifter knob, body color bezels, no dent, and no shot of the inner door panels to determine window controls. I'll get the article up here shortly though.
Page 1.
Page 2.
Page 3.
good artical ( Ghoste) never seen that one before , thanks for posting :thumbs:
Sorry it isn't easier to read but I can fill in the blanks for any of the bad spots or send the full size scan to anyone who really wants it.
Anyone know of an original A4 silver 500 with red interior. A friend of mine bought it out of Indy many years ago. The car had hit a bridge abuctment and destroyed the car. The only way this car was going to be fixed was to clip it with another car.
He sold it several years ago and then lost track of it.
As fas as I know , He still has the A-pillar trim mouldings off the car
I don't recall any A4 with red interior HEMI 500's around here in the INdy area, but then again I wasn't here in this area all of my life.
I do know of a A4 HEMI 500 with blue interior though.
Just an update here but trying to keep a running total for those of you who actually care about 500's.
To date I know of 230 different VIN's for 500's.
HEMI's break down to 78.
27 HEMI 4 speed's
32 HEMI AT's
23 unknown transmission
440 break down to 152
24 4 speed's
90 AT's
28 unknown transmissions
Can break the colors that I know of down like this
A4 silver cars 4
B5 blue cars 16
B7 blue cars 2 (I haven't seen either personally just been informed of their colors)
F3 green cars 6
F5 green cars 7
F8 green cars 33
Q5 aqua cars 2
R4 red cars 37
R6 red cars 4
T3 bronze cars 5
T5 bronze cars 10
T7 bronze cars 4
W1 white cars 7
X9 black cars 7
Y2 yellow cars 10
Y4 gold cars 5
999 speical cars 1
Which leaves a lot of them unaccounted for. As I wrote down VIN's but not fender tag info for a lot of cars over the years.
I'm working on getting more organized, and actually putting all my information into a spreadsheet so that I can sort it all. I'm hoping to set up a spreadsheet that I can enter in the VIN's as well as fender tag information so that I can sort it either way. Gene do you have one set up like that for Daytona's yet? Or Chris how do you sort the information for the 69 Regristry?
My girlfriend Annie did a spread sheet using all the vins from the daytona shipment list You can sort vins and spot doubles and quiclky look up what number car number on the list it is.Also shows what states in alphabetical order.And the groups of vin numbers and there sequence etc etc .You can add additional info at anytime .There many colums to work and sort with.I could have used this high tech way .When I did my daytona per state totals .By hand on paper
So far I've done all my records by hand on paper as well. I'm hoping to get more organized here in the future to make it easier at adding new information without having to hand write up a new list. Which isn't so bad if the car is a late VIN but when its an early one that is multiple pages of new writing.
A new update for anyone who really cars. 235 VIN's now in the database. I now have them all listed in a word document, listing VIN's as seen on dash plates, including those that are XS and not XX.
And then I also have them all in a spreadsheet to be able to sort them all by color, engine, and any option that was available. The only thing I don't have them sortable by so far is stripe color. I'll get that going soon though.
Danny is the Man. :yesnod:
I think I'm going to have to ask Troy for a little assistance on the spreadsheet however. As I'm new to the whole concept, and I want it to be able to total all of the options. So that I can easily do a scroll down and see exactly how many of which way cars were made. I'm still working on it though.
Its coming along definately though. I talked to Dave Patik, and I'm going to be swapping information on these cars with him, to see if his list, and my list match or if we have cars the other hasn't seen. To make a more comprehensive list. Also on fender tag info, and broadcast sheets. So hopefully we can get a larger data base to work from on these cars.
this better come with the chick too!!
**Inactive Link Removed**
Quote from: 69_500 on August 22, 2006, 05:43:17 PM
I don't recall any A4 with red interior HEMI 500's around here in the INdy area, but then again I wasn't here in this area all of my life.
I do know of a A4 HEMI 500 with blue interior though.
That one is here in Houston, albeit it's painted B5 now....... Unless, we're talking about wo different A4's... I remember an A4 C500 quarter panel that was cut off a car and for sale many years ago... Sad sight.......
Quote from: Ghoste on August 21, 2006, 08:31:50 AM
Page 2.
Interesting that the steelies AREN'T painted body color........
Cliff D 69 500 hemi was the A-4 silver to B5 car I recall in Houston
Quote from: nascarxx29 on December 07, 2006, 11:58:37 AM
Cliff ******** 69 500 hemi was the A-4 silver to B5 car I recall in Houston
Yes,, I didn't want to say names since he's a very private person.... Can you edit the reply Dave out of respect to him. He's a friend of mine........
Troy
And is it just me, or do those dog dish caps look oddly sized too?
No offense meant Troy hemi 68 charger.Cliff is a ok guy I often seen and met Cliff in the 80-s. when I lived in TX and was in the houston mopar club many events like the one pictured at gulf freeway dodge .And used to often visit fortis international where his cars were along with other cool mopars.I got pictures of..If I recall correctly Allen V had found that silver 69 500 in San Antonio .Another 500 from my houston days .I can think if is John R R6 red 69 charger 500 AC car.That a friend of mine Randy who also had 2 superbirds found.Wondered where his cars ended up
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e67/75414/120606011.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e67/75414/1969_DAYTONA_DOCUMENTS_01.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e67/75414/WING_CAR_ARTICLE_01.jpg)
The other silver 69 500 157499 that was on ebay .Orig Y4 gold AC belonged to a friend of mine
There are other A4 500's out there. There is one in Detroit, Michigan, a Factory HEMI car too. One of the last 500's built.
138602 was a hemi 500 that got daytona parts on it.Was a A4 silver car
Its a factory B5 car though, 138602 is anyways.
Sorry I thought it was silver going by the bottom of page description (http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e67/75414/WING_CAR_ARTICLE_04.jpg)
I believe it was painted A4 silver when a Mr. Underwood owned the car. However then again I've also been told it has always been the B5 blue. I know the fender tag says B5, and that the car is B5 now. Tag is legit too by the way. Its actually one of the earliest VIN's to a 500, as far as batches of cars goes.
Can you colaberate on the statement that it was used a 1/4 pace car.or is it a typo and should have been 1/4 race car as a daytona
I can colaborate that it was used as a Pace car, which is why it origionally received the nose cone, wing, and front fenders hence making it into a cloned Daytona. I don't know about the size of the race track. The current owner of the car has mentioned having some photo's of it pacing laps at the track.
This car has been for sale lately, as its 2 tone blue currently, still wearing the wing and nose cone. Very low mileage on the car as well, but doesn't have a numbers matching engine. Which from what I've gaterhed was gone before the days of being a pace vehicle.
Does anyone happen to have a photo of the fender tag for car 156008?
Been doing a lot of little searching and counting over the past few weeks on my spreadsheet on Charger 500's. I have been told that the figure that is going around of Charger 500's is 575-580 and that it is being quoted by a supposed GURU. I am not sure on how he figures this number though.
I do know that in 1991 he was saying that there were 223 known 500's, but that he had it figured at 443 being produced. The way figured was to take the known VIN's and then fill in the gaps in the sequences and then add those gaps to the known number and he was coming up with 443.
So by using this same thinking I just went through my spreadsheet and by taking into account that I know of 241 VIN's to Charger 500's. If you fill in all of those gaps you would come up with 631. Now the reason the number shoots up so high is that there are 3 really big gaps in numbers, as in one gap of 33 digits, another of 26, and another of 51. If you take those away you would come up with 521. Which I still think is too high.
Does anyone else have any other threories? I haven't taken the time to study the VIN's to Daytona's as closely to see if there are any gaps in the sequences of if they really followed a tried and true 10-15 car batches.
Side note I have also recently came into possession of a letter that is written by Chrysler Corp from March 8, 1971 that says that they built 548 Charger 500's for the 1969 year. Their records show the break down to be 15 charger 500's with 4 speed and a HEMI (which we know isn't true), and that there was 17 HEMI 500's with AT transmissions (which we also know isn't true). The letter also breaks down 440's as 163 4 speed cars (I haven't found but 26), and the AT's are listed as being 353 cars (which haven't even seen anywhere near that many, I think my count is around 90 or so).
Also had the discussion with Gene over at the Monster Mopar about the total number of HEMI Chargers produced, and I'm think that the number of 462 or whatever it is right, but that it shouldn't include the HEMI 500's or Daytona's. What is anyone else's idea on that one? If it did include them, that would only leave roughly 280-290 total HEMI Charger R/T's for 1969, does anyone else think that this number is way too low? I'm just going by impression here, but at every major Mopar show I attend there is at least 1 HEMI Charger R/T that is a 69 car. However in this year I've seen 4 HEMI 500's at shows this whole year, and and that takes into account that there was 3 of them at Carlisle due to the AERO section display.
Well, it doesn't mean squat, but my personal observation is that I always see more 69 Hemi RT's at major shows than I do 500's of ANY powertrain. :shruggy:
Quote from: Ghoste on September 29, 2007, 07:10:01 PM
Well, it doesn't mean squat, but my personal observation is that I always see more 69 Hemi RT's at major shows than I do 500's of ANY powertrain. :shruggy:
True enough... The closet I've seen to the same amount was a Charger Meet a few years ago in which there was my C500 and another C500-hemi car... There were still more Hemi Charger R/T's from '66 to '69... This past year, I again was the only C500 out of a handfull or more of Hemi Chargers..
I wasn't meaning any year HEMI Charger, I was just narrowing that down to HEMI 69 Charger R/T's at major shows. I really can't think of a single larger Mopar show over the past 4 years where there wasn't at least 1 HEMI R/T 69 in attendance.
Figured I'd dig this thread out of oblivion and update it a bit.
As of Saturday February 23rd the number of Charger 500's I now have information on is at 245 cars.
Of those 82 of them are HEMI Charger 500's.
Of the 245 cars I now have full fender tag information on 112 of the cars. The other cars I have either just the VIN, or what color it was when I saw it, but had no way of verifying it due to either a lost fender tag or no fender tag on display with the car when I saw it.
Quote from: 69_500 on September 29, 2007, 06:16:11 PM
Side note I have also recently came into possession of a letter that is written by Chrysler Corp from March 8, 1971 that says that they built 548 Charger 500's for the 1969 year. Their records show the break down to be 15 charger 500's with 4 speed and a HEMI (which we know isn't true), and that there was 17 HEMI 500's with AT transmissions (which we also know isn't true). The letter also breaks down 440's as 163 4 speed cars (I haven't found but 26), and the AT's are listed as being 353 cars (which haven't even seen anywhere near that many, I think my count is around 90 or so).
Also had the discussion with Gene over at the Monster Mopar about the total number of HEMI Chargers produced, and I'm think that the number of 462 or whatever it is right, but that it shouldn't include the HEMI 500's or Daytona's. What is anyone else's idea on that one? If it did include them, that would only leave roughly 280-290 total HEMI Charger R/T's for 1969, does anyone else think that this number is way too low? I'm just going by impression here, but at every major Mopar show I attend there is at least 1 HEMI Charger R/T that is a 69 car. However in this year I've seen 4 HEMI 500's at shows this whole year, and and that takes into account that there was 3 of them at Carlisle due to the AERO section display.
This is great information! :yesnod: But it doesn't make my search for a 4-speed C500 any too much more encouraging, though. :P
Well it depends on how you take the word "encouraging". Because I think its definitely a plus to know that there are a certain number of cars that are at least known to exist in a certain combination. IE 4 speed 440 cars, have 26 that I have full fender tag information on. Have seen several others that are 4 speed cars, but no documentation, or way of backing up that they are a factory 4 speed car. The number I heard years ago was that there was 100+ 4 speed 440 powered 500's. Not sure if that makes you any more "encouraged".
Quote from: 69_500 on March 07, 2008, 12:29:52 PM
...The number I heard years ago was that there was 100+ 4 speed 440 powered 500's. Not sure if that makes you any more "encouraged".
Still like the old 26 number, but a 100+ makes more sense... :icon_smile_big:
Troy
Quote from: 69_500 on February 04, 2006, 06:05:48 PM
Well if you have any info on that car I'd love to add its information as well Troy.
Like I said before my list is only partial, but I'm always looking to add any more information to make it more complete. If you add the HEMI 4 speeds I think it would probably be closer to 30 total 4 speed cars that I've seen.
See when I first started collecting this information all I did was write down VIN numbers and exterior colors. I didn't bother looking at fender tags to write that stuff down, or even the interiors. As the years progressed I started making more notes on cars.
This is an awsome thread, Danny! Thanks you for getting it all out there. Although the factoid here has me a little depressed, as it makes finding a 440 4-speed C500 for me seem even more difficult now. :'( I'm still holding out for Dana, Troy!
-Russ
Quote from: RAC95054 on March 07, 2008, 01:56:48 PM
Quote from: 69_500 on February 04, 2006, 06:05:48 PM
Well if you have any info on that car I'd love to add its information as well Troy.
Like I said before my list is only partial, but I'm always looking to add any more information to make it more complete. If you add the HEMI 4 speeds I think it would probably be closer to 30 total 4 speed cars that I've seen.
See when I first started collecting this information all I did was write down VIN numbers and exterior colors. I didn't bother looking at fender tags to write that stuff down, or even the interiors. As the years progressed I started making more notes on cars.
This is an awsome thread, Danny! Thanks you for getting it all out there. Although the factoid here has me a little depressed, as it makes finding a 440 4-speed C500 for me seem even more difficult now. :'( I'm still holding out for Dana, Troy!
-Russ
I meant to ask in my last post, how many 440 4-speed C500's do you have in your list now, and how many do you not know what tranny they have?
26 that I know for a fact came from the factory sporting the 440 engine as well as the D21 transmission.
Of the total of 245 cars, I am missing the trans for 120 of the cars. IE many were years before I wrote down everything on these cars. Others, were missing either a tag or any way to prove one way or the other.
Quote from: 69_500 on March 07, 2008, 03:43:29 PM
26 that I know for a fact came from the factory sporting the 440 engine as well as the D21 transmission.
Of the total of 245 cars, I am missing the trans for 120 of the cars. IE many were years before I wrote down everything on these cars. Others, were missing either a tag or any way to prove one way or the other.
Thanks! That sounds more promising. :yesnod: I don't suppose you have a color breakdown of those do you?? :P
You want a color break down of the known 500's or of the ones that I don't know the transmission for? Because of the ones I don't have trans listed I didn't list a color either, as you would need the same documentation for a definate color match as a transmission. IE a fender tag, broadcast sheet, dealership order papers.
Okay if you wanting to know about the paint color break down of known 500's it goes like this.
A4 4
B3 0
B5 16
B7 0
F3 6
F5 16
F8 33
Q5 2
R4 37
R6 4
T3 5
T5 13
T7 4
W1 7
X9 7
Y2 10
Y3 0
Y4 5
99 1
Quote from: 69_500 on March 07, 2008, 05:01:29 PM
You want a color break down of the known 500's or of the ones that I don't know the transmission for? Because of the ones I don't have trans listed I didn't list a color either, as you would need the same documentation for a definate color match as a transmission. IE a fender tag, broadcast sheet, dealership order papers.
Okay if you wanting to know about the paint color break down of known 500's it goes like this.
A4 4
B3 0
B5 16
B7 0
F3 6
F5 16
F8 33
Q5 2
R4 37
R6 4
T3 5
T5 13
T7 4
W1 7
X9 7
Y2 10
Y3 0
Y4 5
99 1
Great! Thank you! :cheers: Can you break it down even further to auto vs. 4-speed?? That would be very good to know. :yesnod: Thanks again!
Quote from: 69_500 on March 07, 2008, 05:01:29 PM
You want a color break down of the known 500's or of the ones that I don't know the transmission for? Because of the ones I don't have trans listed I didn't list a color either, as you would need the same documentation for a definate color match as a transmission. IE a fender tag, broadcast sheet, dealership order papers.
Okay if you wanting to know about the paint color break down of known 500's it goes like this.
A4 4
B3 0
B5 16
B7 0
F3 6
F5 16
F8 33
Q5 2
R4 37
R6 4
T3 5
T5 13
T7 4
W1 7
X9 7
Y2 10
Y3 0
Y4 5
99 1
Where is v2 Hemi Orange?
Quote from: DougSchellinger on March 07, 2008, 08:10:19 PM
Where is v2 Hemi Orange?
Still on the drawing board in the Styling Department at the time... :P
Quote from: hemigeno on March 07, 2008, 08:35:26 PM
Quote from: DougSchellinger on March 07, 2008, 08:10:19 PM
Where is v2 Hemi Orange?
Still on the drawing board in the Styling Department at the time... :P
Is that a late '69 color?
Quote from: DougSchellinger on March 07, 2008, 08:45:21 PM
Quote from: hemigeno on March 07, 2008, 08:35:26 PM
Quote from: DougSchellinger on March 07, 2008, 08:10:19 PM
Where is v2 Hemi Orange?
Still on the drawing board in the Styling Department at the time... :P
Is that a late '69 color?
Yes it was. I have the paperwork around here somewhere showing the intro date for it. Barry Washington scanned all my TSB's and posted them on his site, and I know it's on there. Gimme a sec and I'll post it...
Here's the TSB:
FWIW, the date on the TSB isn't exactly correct though. I have another factory document (an Engineering Transmittal) that outlines the introduction of V2 on Darts/Coronets/Chargers, and K2 for Plymouth B-bodies. That document is dated March 7, 1969.
Looks like V2 was to late of a introduction to be on a 69 500, wish my R4 500 was Q5 with white interior. Jay.
The one that is 99 is the same 99 paint code orange as the Daytona that Tim Welbourn has though. If that is any consolation.
Gene, I thought that there was a paper somewhere that said that V2 was available some time back in December of 1968? Or am I mistaken? Or was that for F6 green? I just remember seeing one of the colors mentioned that "technically" would have been available if someone had acted super fast on ordering one in that color.
Quote from: hemigeno on March 07, 2008, 08:48:45 PM
Quote from: DougSchellinger on March 07, 2008, 08:45:21 PM
Quote from: hemigeno on March 07, 2008, 08:35:26 PM
Quote from: DougSchellinger on March 07, 2008, 08:10:19 PM
Where is v2 Hemi Orange?
Still on the drawing board in the Styling Department at the time... :P
Is that a late '69 color?
Yes it was. I have the paperwork around here somewhere showing the intro date for it. Barry Washington scanned all my TSB's and posted them on his site, and I know it's on there. Gimme a sec and I'll post it...
is v2 the same as tor- red on plymouths ????????
V2 would be more along the lines of Vitamin C orange.
Quote from: 69_500 on March 08, 2008, 08:56:49 AM
Gene, I thought that there was a paper somewhere that said that V2 was available some time back in December of 1968? Or am I mistaken? Or was that for F6 green? I just remember seeing one of the colors mentioned that "technically" would have been available if someone had acted super fast on ordering one in that color.
Danny, that would have been F6. Intro date in Nov '68 if I remember right, which would have left very little time for a C500 to have been ordered, processed and built before they quit making them. That's the one we were talking about before.
Quote from: moparstuart on March 08, 2008, 09:31:58 AM
is v2 the same as tor- red on plymouths ????????
Yes, V2 is called HemiOrange for the 69+ Dodge product line, and Tor-Red for the 1970+ Plymouth line. I never did figure out why Plymouth would have used a name with "Red" in it for an orange color :shruggy:
Quote from: 69_500 on March 08, 2008, 09:54:01 AM
V2 would be more along the lines of Vitamin C orange.
Actually, Vitamin C orange is Plymouth's name for K2 or EK2. Go Mango is the Dodge name for Ek2, which was a '70 color/name. K2 was introduced at the same time as V2 (the announcement to the factories was found on the same Engineering Transmittal dated March 7, 1969). There is a debate about whether K2 orange is the same as the 99 coded "Omaha" Orange. From what I've read, K2 paint has more metallic in it whereas 99 Omaha Orange has less or none. The colors are very similar though.
As a clarification... for '69, V2 HemiOrange was "supposed" to be just for certain Dodge cars, and K2 was "supposed" to be exclusive to the Plymouth B-body line. While I haven't personally seen any exceptions, I know better than to say they NEVER crossed product lines. It wasn't supposed to happen though. For 1970, both colors were available on Dodge & Plymouths, and I have no idea why they drew the distinctions for '69.
:Twocents:
I know of a B5 blue with a blue leather interior 440 auto SE 500 with a black stripe. I don't have pics of it right now. But if I get some I will post one or two. I will see if I can get the vin this week. Seems like it was also a A/C car and even power windows. I also found a Daytona a few years ago which lots of you have seen photos of. Its a numbers matching 440 4spd dana car in R4 with white stripe and interior.
Quote from: 69_500 on March 08, 2008, 09:54:01 AM
V2 would be more along the lines of Vitamin C orange.
ok thats the color of my 70 road runner coupe My brother bought in 76 still has only 36 k on the body but miissing its original drive train .
Quote from: C_stripes on March 08, 2008, 11:33:56 AM
I know of a B5 blue with a blue leather interior 440 auto SE 500 with a black stripe. I don't have pics of it right now. But if I get some I will post one or two. I will see if I can get the vin this week. Seems like it was also a A/C car and even power windows. I also found a Daytona a few years ago which lots of you have seen photos of. Its a numbers matching 440 4spd dana car in R4 with white stripe and interior.
Would be a very rare combination if there was a B5 blue SE 500 with A/C. So far have only information on 4 different 500's that have both the SE and A/C. Two of which are here in Indianapolis, one is owned by a board member, and then there is another in the southern USA.
Have had a few more updates to the lists in the past few months so figured I'd bring this thread back up.
Totals in the spreadsheet as of July 18th 2008
249 total Charger 500's known.
164 of those are 440 powered cars.
85 of those are HEMI cars.
Rarest options so far are J46 locking gas cap, and N88 cruise control. Other than options that none of them have that is. IE M51 sunroof and such, and I have yet to find a single car with the M05 door mouldings.
i would like to get back to the A4 silver 500 ,hemi car with red guts, some one said there is one in detroit and another guy said there was one in Indy, does any one have Vin's on these?, i am still trying to track down that stolen one from wisconsin from the early 80's. detroit and Indy arent to far! :scratchchin: keeps yur eys out guys, the vin to the stolen car is in a different thread
Wasnt that A4 car the old Dave Dixon 500
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,24387.0.html
yes that was the car dave dixon sold to a former student of his, then it was stolen
Quote from: C_stripes on March 08, 2008, 11:33:56 AM
I know of a B5 blue with a blue leather interior 440 auto SE 500 with a black stripe.
Sounds like the 500 I saw at a show last weeked...minus the black stripe.
can not remember is this car had a tail stripe or not, i dont believe it did, where was it?
Back to original topic.
List is now up to 251 VIN's for 500's as of July 23rd 2008.
That includes
HEMI 84
440 cars 165
4speed 39 (total know for HEMI's and 440's)
9 SE Charger 500's
18 cars with A/C
4 cars with both A/C and the SE option
Color breakdown
A4 silver cars 4
B3 blue cars 0
B5 blue cars 16
B7 blue cars 2 (I haven't seen either personally just been informed of their colors)
F3 green cars 6
F5 green cars 17
F8 green cars 33
Q5 aqua cars 2
R4 red cars 37
R6 red cars 4
T3 bronze cars 5
T5 bronze cars 14
T7 bronze cars 6
W1 white cars 7
X9 black cars 7
Y2 yellow cars 10
Y4 gold cars 5
99 speical cars 1
Quote from: 69_500 on July 24, 2008, 07:13:20 PM
Back to original topic.
List is now up to 251 VIN's for 500's as of July 23rd 2008.
That includes
HEMI 84
440 cars 165
4speed 39 (total know for HEMI's and 440's)
9 SE Charger 500's
18 cars with A/C
4 cars with both A/C and the SE option
Hey Danny...
Besides Paul's C500 and Dana, how many more T7's do you know of..........
Troy
4
Thank you Danny for new numbers You are the man. :2thumbs: Jay.
Do you also count the 3 cars that i know of in my area but dont have the vin numbers yet? Do you go by only known vin numbers so far?
There are three in my area other than mine,
Blue (not sure on details, its been 10 years since i've seen it)
Black (originally T5, hemi 4-speed)
and a Y2 car (440, 4-speed i think)
Paul
in Minnetonka
Paul I don't think I've included any of the cars you mentioned due to not knowing which VIN those colors go to. The break down of colors is only on cars that I either have seen and saw the fender tag to, or broadcast sheets that I've seen, or fender tags/broadcast sheets I've been sent.
I do have some pictures you were nice enough to send me of the black HEMI 500 though. Although I didn't know what color it was originally, just that it wasn't a factory X9 car.
Slight update here.
figured i'd do a little update before the end of the year since the other thread wondered how many were actually built, at least here we know of at least 256 that were at least built. I've got a list of 256 known VIN's for 500's. Of those a majority of them are still around.
Quote from: 69_500 on December 26, 2008, 08:19:33 AM
Slight update here.
figured i'd do a little update before the end of the year since the other thread wondered how many were actually built, at least here we know of at least 256 that were at least built. I've got a list of 256 known VIN's for 500's. Of those a majority of them are still around.
Hey Danny,
What total are you up to now? Any further thoughts on the 392 figure being dispelled. I emailed Galen over 6 months ago. Still waiting for a reply. :popcrn:
Quote from: Kiwi68 on May 19, 2010, 12:45:49 AM
Any further thoughts on the 392 figure being dispelled. I emailed Galen over 6 months ago. Still waiting for a reply. :popcrn:
I hope that is one big mutha tub of popcorn.
Okay here is a personal update. To date as of May 19th 2010, I have VIN information on 261 of the Charger 500's. Talked to a guy the other day about another one that did not sound familiar so could possibly increase by 1 more in the next few days.
This is good stuff! :popcrn:
Quote from: 69_500 on May 19, 2010, 05:55:35 PM
Okay here is a personal update. To date as of May 19th 2010, I have VIN information on 261 of the Charger 500's. Talked to a guy the other day about another one that did not sound familiar so could possibly increase by 1 more in the next few days.
Great, thanks for the update :cheers:
Quote from: 69_500 on May 19, 2010, 05:55:35 PM
Okay here is a personal update. To date as of May 19th 2010, I have VIN information on 261 of the Charger 500's. Talked to a guy the other day about another one that did not sound familiar so could possibly increase by 1 more in the next few days.
Danny, I'm taking it you already knew about my Y2?
T
Yeah knew of it Troy, but as I mentioned when we talked on the phone I only had partial fender tag information on it until you got it. Thanks for filling in the blanks for me. Still trying to get all the info on the one that is on ebay at the moment as well.
Here is a slight bump on this old thread.
As of today September 15th 2011 I am now up to a total of 267 known VIN's for Charger 500's.
Quote from: 69_500 on September 15, 2011, 07:01:03 PM
Here is a slight bump on this old thread.
As of today September 15th 2011 I am now up to a total of 267 known VIN's for Charger 500's.
:2thumbs:
Quote from: 69_500 on September 15, 2011, 07:01:03 PM
Here is a slight bump on this old thread.
As of today September 15th 2011 I am now up to a total of 267 known VIN's for Charger 500's.
So when is your book coming out? It's gotta be better that that old "red book", make sure it has lots of good color photos. I always felt the number of AC cars had to be incorrect or to low, first heard 19 then 32, lots of Chargers have AC, either that or I was lucky, both mine are (incl. the F8 leaving) and know of another. So why don't you post more photos on your site of photos you or been given, even if they are rough old cars, we all love to scope Chargers. This whole topic, a great read for me... it reminds me why I am not crazy about fully restored cars and prefer the old pre 90s restos or original.... it is just refreshing to see a presented to be rare car and not wonder what is real or "cloned", just what I am into I suppose. :shruggy:
Priority of owning a Daytona has not taken place, might someday, I have liked the obscurity of the 500s from the time I learned about them as a kid. But I think they have always been a little under the radar, still now. They do not have that in your face wing thing when laying around or shown and therefore easier to be lost into neglect or maybe less restored for sure. As noted in another thread on similar topic. I still think plenty exist in collectors hands, but fewer have been restored and more in storage. The aero collectors most have several aero cars, many restore Daytona first or buy the Daytona first maybe, am I profiling maybe.
Sorry but no plans for making a book as of yet. Maybe in the future. I do not post many photo's of cars that I've seen because they are not my cars and unless the owner of the car has given me permission to post a picture of their cars I just don't. Now as far as the A/C question goes. I can only attest for the cars that I have seen so that is where I come up with my count. Not sure on exactly how others come up with their numbers though.
Personally I'd still rather have a Daytona than a C500 but I find the 500's very interesting and very unresearched as a whole. When I first started tracking them pretty seriously I could hardly find one anywhere. Now I could just simply pick up the phone and call about 50 owners and ask them about their cars. There is not as many unrestored C500's that are 440 cars that I know of. Well not ones that are still looking pretty sharp anyways. I have looked at over a handful of HEMI 500's that are unrestored cars that are still very nice and/or low mileage cars. 440 cars on the other hand I have no ran into very many that are still good looking unrestored cars.
Update on this one. As of today I am up to 275 known Charger 500's.
Beaks down like this now.
90 Hemi cars. With 20 of them being confirmed as 4 speed cars. Only have a confirmation on about 65% of the transmissions on these. Some more I think are 4 speeds but no tag, or trans or sheet to confirm.
185 known 440 powered cars.
28 of these are known to be 4 speed cars. There are 110 of them that I have either fender tag info on or broadcast sheets for. So that still leaves 75 more to figure out.
25 cars are known to be A/C cars.
9 cars are known to be SE cars. Of these 4 are SE cars with A/C.
9 cars are known to be power window cars.
19 cars have the M25 mouldings.
3 cars are known to have cruise control.
That's about it for changes to list. No big changes in amounts for each color.
Quote from: 69_500 on July 24, 2008, 07:13:20 PM
Color breakdown
A4 silver cars 6
B3 blue cars 0
B5 blue cars 16
B7 blue cars 2 (I haven't seen either personally just been informed of their colors)
F3 green cars 6
F5 green cars 18
F8 green cars 33
Q5 aqua cars 2
R4 red cars 37
R6 red cars 5
T3 bronze cars 5
T5 bronze cars 15
T7 bronze cars 6
W1 white cars 7
X9 black cars 7
Y2 yellow cars 10
Y4 gold cars 5
99 speical cars 2
This is updated to today's known totals. Also only 11 cars so far the I have seen with right side mirror.
Quote from: 69_500 on July 26, 2013, 08:55:06 PM
Update on this one. As of today I am up to 275 known Charger 500's.
Beaks down like this now.
90 Hemi cars. With 20 of them being confirmed as 4 speed cars. Only have a confirmation on about 65% of the transmissions on these. Some more I think are 4 speeds but no tag, or trans or sheet to confirm.
185 known 440 powered cars.
28 of these are known to be 4 speed cars. There are 110 of them that I have either fender tag info on or broadcast sheets for. So that still leaves 75 more to figure out.
25 cars are known to be A/C cars.
9 cars are known to be SE cars. Of these 4 are SE cars with A/C.
9 cars are known to be power window cars.
19 cars have the M25 mouldings.
3 cars are known to have cruise control.
That's about it for changes to list. No big changes in amounts for each color.
Thanks for the update :cheers: . Based on expected survival rates, do you go with 392 produced or the higher Galen number?
Thanks for the update Danny. :2thumbs:
I believe the 580 1969 Charger 500 figure is accurate. Chrysler Historical Collection quotes 392, and that is the only number they have, no VIN's, no other info.
Quote from: Retread on July 30, 2013, 04:43:59 PM
I believe the 580 1969 Charger 500 figure is accurate. Chrysler Historical Collection quotes 392, and that is the only number they have, no VIN's, no other info.
Catch 22 here........... CHC says 392 without VIN's and then the person with the 580+ number won't release anything........ Sooooooo, one will never know for sure........ ( unless said individual releases the "Dead Sea Scrolls of C500's"....... But, from a bean-counter point of view, why make more than necessary? It would cost MaMopar extra greenbacks.. At least with the CHC, there's a creditable source...
And round and round we go again. :icon_smile_big: Until the great guru offers up his secret proof I will stick with the only other evidence that has ever been available and say 392.
:iagree:
I am sticking with the 392 number , personally i think there may be a 580 secret list but i think its a list that was given to NASCAR
alot of the documents we still have are Race related . We all know they wanted to get the cars certified to meet homolagation rules .
If the real number is 392. than they would have been short of the mandated number required. It this correct?
So the 580 number would have made the planets move as they should. :scratchchin:
Or does the required number include the daytonas that followed?
This makes for good reading :cheers: . :popcrn:
Aside from everyones own personal thoughts and opinions, based on survival numbers of Daytonas (how many survived I don't know????)- where we have an accurate production number - how many C500's would have rolled out with the current number of 275 accounted for??
I think that there is somewhere around 380 known Daytona's. at work right now so going from memory on that one. But I will say that not all of the 275 Charger 500's mentioned before are still around. There are several that are long gone and others that could only be back on the road with false actions (rebody).
So I would say that proportionally it's probably about the same.
If you basing actual production at 392 that is. The higher number of 584 is plausible but I just do not buy it as of yet. Even with the supposed list of that number the registry he has on these cars only has like 200 that have been accounted for.
story I heard was that Nascar & Chrysler were counting the cars in the back lot or somewhere, then they stopped & took a lunch break. While out to eat, all the cars were moved around so it appeared more cars were there and they began counting again
not sure if this story holds water or not
Bryan
Quote from: A383Wing on July 31, 2013, 09:10:23 AM
story I heard was that Nascar & Chrysler were counting the cars in the back lot or somewhere, then they stopped & took a lunch break. While out to eat, all the cars were moved around so it appeared more cars were there and they began counting again
not sure if this story holds water or not
Bryan
With that, would it be assumed then all the C500's were still on Creative property? I would have assumed that as cars were built and certified "done", they would be shipped out ASAP......
T
And not exactly a big place to jam 500 or more cars into.
My gut tells me the over 60% survival rate for Daytonas and Superbirds is extraordinarily high compared to other muscle cars. I attribute this to the weird factor of the wing cars.
The 500s are more like the Talladegas and Cyclone Spoiler II. With the Fords, there are known production numbers, and the survival rates trend much, much lower. I really do not see the 500 as being any different. So I tend to think the 580 number is likely correct.
And that could well be the number, I would like it if it turned out to be true. But conjecture about survival rates and if some cars were run through the check off process twice and so forth is just that, conjecture. The closest we have to hard evidence is a number officially put forth by Chrysler and a list that allegedly exists with a supposedly higher number. Until both "official" facts see the light of day I'm going to stay with the lower figure. (at this point though, I'm not sure if the release of the Warren Commission Report on the Number of 1969 Charger 500's would stop us debating it either :lol:)
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,7862.msg96261.html#msg96261
Quote from: Aero426 on July 31, 2013, 09:46:45 AM
My gut tells me the over 60% survival rate for Daytonas and Superbirds is extraordinarily high compared to other muscle cars. I attribute this to the weird factor of the wing cars.
The 500s are more like the Talladegas and Cyclone Spoiler II. With the Fords, there are known production numbers, and the survival rates trend much, much lower. I really do not see the 500 as being any different. So I tend to think the 580 number is likely correct.
Along with his 580 number GG has the selling dealer of each 500 too, prove to him you own the 500 and he will send you the dealer information on your car .
Quote from: arrow on July 31, 2013, 11:23:49 AM
Quote from: Aero426 on July 31, 2013, 09:46:45 AM
My gut tells me the over 60% survival rate for Daytonas and Superbirds is extraordinarily high compared to other muscle cars. I attribute this to the weird factor of the wing cars.
The 500s are more like the Talladegas and Cyclone Spoiler II. With the Fords, there are known production numbers, and the survival rates trend much, much lower. I really do not see the 500 as being any different. So I tend to think the 580 number is likely correct.
Along with his 580 number GG has the selling dealer of each 500 too, prove to him you own the 500 and he will send you the dealer information on your car .
When i first got my 500 in 09 I was told by him the car was a throw away it was worthless with out a fender tag , broad cast sheet or original drive train . He never offered up any information to me .
Quote from: moparstuart on July 31, 2013, 11:52:37 AM
When i first got my 500 in 09 I was told by him the car was a throw away it was worthless with out a fender tag , broad cast sheet or original drive train . He never offered up any information to me .
:smilielol:
Oh the creditability..........
Quote from: moparstuart on July 31, 2013, 11:52:37 AM
Quote from: arrow on July 31, 2013, 11:23:49 AM
Quote from: Aero426 on July 31, 2013, 09:46:45 AM
My gut tells me the over 60% survival rate for Daytonas and Superbirds is extraordinarily high compared to other muscle cars. I attribute this to the weird factor of the wing cars.
The 500s are more like the Talladegas and Cyclone Spoiler II. With the Fords, there are known production numbers, and the survival rates trend much, much lower. I really do not see the 500 as being any different. So I tend to think the 580 number is likely correct.
Along with his 580 number GG has the selling dealer of each 500 too, prove to him you own the 500 and he will send you the dealer information on your car .
When i first got my 500 in 09 I was told by him the car was a throw away it was worthless with out a fender tag , broad cast sheet or original drive train . He never offered up any information to me .
I sent an email to GG requesting info about 3 years ago, adding I was happy to pay for such info on my car. Also asked about production numbers. Still waiting for a reply to that e ::)
Its been longer ago than 09 , I got the information for my 500 from him , I sent a copy of the title - dash vin and fender tag pencil rubbing , it took along time to recieve it , but it came.
Quote from: arrow on July 31, 2013, 02:47:20 PM
Its been longer ago than 09 , I got the information for my 500 from him , I sent a copy of the title - dash vin and fender tag pencil rubbing , it took along time to recieve it , but it came.
what info did he provide?
Ive got the stuff somewhere , havent looked at it for a long time, it wasnt much more than the selling or recieving dealer and his location, I wasnt trying to defend GG, Im well aware hes dropped the ball many times and rightfully POed alot of people, my comment was made in regard to Dougs post, that 500s looking like a regular Charger as much as they did, there are alot still out there if the 392 number is correct . I dont see how GG could offer up information on 580 with out the vins and selling dealers
By coincidence, I spoke to Diane at Galen's office this afternoon. After answering her questions, I asked her about the Charger 500 VIN list. She later called me back and said she had found the information. What she described to me was similar to what arrow talks about in the post above.
I then asked what would be involved for an owner to obtain the information on their particular car. If you own a '69 Charger 500 and would like to research the name and location of the dealer where it was sold new, you should send an email to her at gts@mhtc.net You will need to provide her your VIN. If she has information on your car, she will set you up with Galen for a 30 minute phone consult. You will probably need to provide some proof of ownership and they will want to verify the fender tag info if you have that. The cost for the phone consult is $100.
$100 for a 30 minute phone call? And all you get is where the car was sold new?
doesn't seem right to me
Quote from: hemi68charger on July 31, 2013, 09:21:05 AM
With that, would it be assumed then all the C500's were still on Creative property? I would have assumed that as cars were built and certified "done", they would be shipped out ASAP......
T
That's what I heard or read, that all of 'em were on Creative's property and some "official" was counting cars to make sure that the proper amount was made. Like I said, it's been a while since I heard that, again, not sure if it's actually "gospel"
Quote from: A383Wing on July 31, 2013, 05:18:08 PM
$100 for a 30 minute phone call? And all you get is where the car was sold new?
doesn't seem right to me
That is the standard fee. On the other hand, you have up to half an hour to discuss anything about these cars in person that has been keeping you up at night.
I know some are not going to like the idea of paying for information, but let's not go down that road. All I am saying is that if you want the information, it is available.
I think it was 1972 someone asked Chrysler how many charger 500 were built. If they put XX29 in the computer, and it said 392, what about all of the XS29 charger 500 that are out there. These may have been lost in the count. One of mine is a XS29 :Twocents: :shruggy: :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: Rick.
Quote from: talkiemopar on July 31, 2013, 09:34:23 PM
I think it was 1972 someone asked Chrysler how many charger 500 were built. If they put XX29 in the computer, and it said 392, what about all of the XS29 charger 500 that are out there. These may have been lost in the count. One of mine is a XS29 :Twocents: :shruggy: :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: Rick.
Me too........ Until otherwise "educated", my answer when I'm out and about with the cars will be 392........... This topic is like an oldie-goldie....... Don't hear it much, but when you do, it brings up a lot of memories, emotions and well,,,,,,,,,,, in this genre, controversy.... :icon_smile_big:
An XS29 charger 500? It is new to me. :popcrn:
Quote from: ws23rt on July 31, 2013, 09:41:28 PM
An XS29 charger 500? It is new to me. :popcrn:
early 69 500's were XS before the XX designation
Quote from: Aero426 on July 31, 2013, 04:51:53 PM
By coincidence, I spoke to Diane at Galen's office this afternoon. After answering her questions, I asked her about the Charger 500 VIN list. She later called me back and said she had found the information. What she described to me was similar to what arrow talks about in the post above.
I then asked what would be involved for an owner to obtain the information on their particular car. If you own a '69 Charger 500 and would like to research the name and location of the dealer where it was sold new, you should send an email to her at gts@mhtc.net You will need to provide her your VIN. If she has information on your car, she will set you up with Galen for a 30 minute phone consult. You will probably need to provide some proof of ownership and they will want to verify the fender tag info if you have that. The cost for the phone consult is $100.
So they have a dealer/shipping list with each VIN. I wonder where this was acquired from. ??? I know where my 500 was shipped to, so probably not alot Galen can tell me that I don't already know.
so you can now pay yerself $100 for that info
Do aero cars rust less around the rear window, hence more being around?
No, its just that as homologation cars they tended to be purchased more frequently by ardent enthusiasts right from the beginning so they were better taken care of than the "garden variety" musclecars. Hence the better survival rate. You see it with other vehicles of the ilk as well.
Doug what is the survival rate of the Talladega's? Percentage wise just curious. I think a big part of the survival of the 500's that I have seen has to do with the fact that 90 are Hemi cars. I know typical rates are somewhere in the 20-30% survival rate. But I think with Hemi cars its probably around 70+ right? Then I would say around 40% for R/T cars maybe higher still for RT/SE. So if you figure all 500's are compatible to all of those and lump them all together you would have a high rate of survival. Just throwing it out there.
Me I am not sold either way on how many there were produced. I just know how many I have tracked down. I do not evere expect that number to be higher than 392 though. I am actually surprised at how many I have seen so far considering that the most I have ever seen at now show is 13.
Quote from: 69_500 on August 01, 2013, 04:09:05 AM
Doug what is the survival rate of the Talladega's? Percentage wise just curious. I think a big part of the survival of the 500's that I have seen has to do with the fact that 90 are Hemi cars. I know typical rates are somewhere in the 20-30% survival rate. But I think with Hemi cars its probably around 70+ right? Then I would say around 40% for R/T cars maybe higher still for RT/SE. So if you figure all 500's are compatible to all of those and lump them all together you would have a high rate of survival. Just throwing it out there.
Me I am not sold either way on how many there were produced. I just know how many I have tracked down. I do not evere expect that number to be higher than 392 though. I am actually surprised at how many I have seen so far considering that the most I have ever seen at now show is 13.
:2thumbs:
Quote from: 69_500 on August 01, 2013, 04:09:05 AM
Doug what is the survival rate of the Talladega's? Percentage wise just curious. I think a big part of the survival of the 500's that I have seen has to do with the fact that 90 are Hemi cars. I know typical rates are somewhere in the 20-30% survival rate. But I think with Hemi cars its probably around 70+ right? Then I would say around 40% for R/T cars maybe higher still for RT/SE. So if you figure all 500's are compatible to all of those and lump them all together you would have a high rate of survival. Just throwing it out there.
Me I am not sold either way on how many there were produced. I just know how many I have tracked down. I do not evere expect that number to be higher than 392 though. I am actually surprised at how many I have seen so far considering that the most I have ever seen at now show is 13.
These numbers are rough.
154 Spoiler II's accounted for out of 503= 30%
269 Talladegas accounted for out of 748 = 36%
385 Daytonas out of 501 = 76%
1257 Superbirds out of 1920 = 65%
500 on moparts today, in B-body sales area
Quote from: Homerr on August 01, 2013, 07:33:17 PM
500 on moparts today, in B-body sales area
can you post the link please
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7796395&an=0&page=0#Post7796395
(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/imfixinmopars/1969%20charger%20500%20hemi/023.jpg) (http://s97.photobucket.com/user/imfixinmopars/media/1969%20charger%20500%20hemi/023.jpg.html)
(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/imfixinmopars/1969%20charger%20500%20hemi/022.jpg) (http://s97.photobucket.com/user/imfixinmopars/media/1969%20charger%20500%20hemi/022.jpg.html)
(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/imfixinmopars/1969%20charger%20500%20hemi/012.jpg) (http://s97.photobucket.com/user/imfixinmopars/media/1969%20charger%20500%20hemi/012.jpg.html)
The moparts one looks like the one Moparstuart posted that was for sale on a facebook page.
Same car. Looked at it at Carlisle.
Quote from: charger_fan_4ever on August 01, 2013, 09:16:13 PM
The moparts one looks like the one Moparstuart posted that was for sale on a facebook page.
:yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod:
Quote from: 69_500 on August 01, 2013, 09:43:28 PM
Same car. Looked at it at Carlisle.
:popcrn: ahhhh and................... tell us more please, how was it? no better photos?
anyone else notice its says "by by" uner the rear window?
So they either needed a letter "e" on the end of each of those or they were discussing who did the conversion? :icon_smile_wink:
Quote from: XS29LA47V21 on August 02, 2013, 07:27:30 AM
:popcrn: ahhhh and................... tell us more please, how was it? no better photos?
more photos here --> http://s97.photobucket.com/user/imfixinmopars/library/1969%20charger%20500%20hemi
I just pasted 3 of 'em
Bryan
Quote from: XS29LA47V21 on August 02, 2013, 07:27:30 AM
Quote from: 69_500 on August 01, 2013, 09:43:28 PM
Same car. Looked at it at Carlisle.
:popcrn: ahhhh and................... tell us more please, how was it? no better photos?
pretty rough
Quote from: A383Wing on August 02, 2013, 09:52:23 AM
Quote from: XS29LA47V21 on August 02, 2013, 07:27:30 AM
:popcrn: ahhhh and................... tell us more please, how was it? no better photos?
more photos here --> http://s97.photobucket.com/user/imfixinmopars/library/1969%20charger%20500%20hemi
I just pasted 3 of 'em
Bryan
Thanks, had not seen any real photos. Lot of work there, I see someone saving it for sure, but for comparison.
T3 XX29J with apparent no sale at 99k, no bids. Not in a color for me :slap:, but looks very very nice in photos.
i saw the car at carlisle also for sure a fixer but lots of damage . Will take alot of work .
Pretty heavy rot under the window vin...
So, is the seller realistic asking 45k with the nos parts, given it will need everything plus a trans, Or in the ballpark guys??
I saw it too, I heard he refused $30,000 for it. I took a lot of pictures of it for reference for my car. I will post some when I get home.
I thought a realistic price was 30-35k but thats just my :Twocents: being a dark green , automatic car I would think closer to 30 k .
Interesting transition period, its an XX on the dashboard Vin, and an XS on the fender tag.
Quote from: 5hunert on August 02, 2013, 05:47:28 PM
Interesting transition period, its an XX on the dashboard Vin, and an XS on the fender tag.
I was wondering the same thing. Come on Danny any help on this transition period?
I recall 300 or so were XS http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,84606.0.html
Nov 14 '68 is the first date the XX vin went on the VIN tag in dash. This is my 500's build date, but has XS on the block and trans,
Quote from: C500 on August 02, 2013, 06:37:49 PM
Nov 14 '68 is the first date the XX vin went on the VIN tag in dash. This is my 500's build date, but has XS on the block and trans,
rick edwards has an odd ball that was built in december ( if i remember correctly ) but got XS on the dash
Quote from: 5hunert on August 02, 2013, 05:47:28 PM
Interesting transition period, its an XX on the dashboard Vin, and an XS on the fender tag.
thats what mine is and the build sheet(wrong one) that was in it was in Oct.
Quote from: C500 on August 02, 2013, 06:37:49 PM
Nov 14 '68 is the first date the XX vin went on the VIN tag in dash. This is my 500's build date, but has XS on the block and trans,
:scratchchin: I dont think that is correct...my 500 has a 929 build date and has the XX vin on the dash, but XS on fender tag and engine block...and also the hemi car being discussed has a 907 build date with XX dash vin XS fender tag
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,49791.msg543765.html#msg543765
Fender tags stamped XX from 14 Nov http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,50484.msg557097.html#msg557097
You guys are right November 14th seems to be the transition date from XS on fender tags to XX. Before that date I have not seen a single one say XX. After that date they all say it and on that date they are amid bag. Broadcast sheets seem to be transitioning around same time frame too, but it seems to be all of them say XX after Nobember 20. Only saw one so far that is B20 that still says XS.
Mine's a Nov. 20th. Both tags are XX, but both the engine and trans numbers have over strikes on the second digit. They were both stamped XS, then the S was over struck with an X. The build sheet (wrong car, 30 numbers off) had XS at the top.
When i had mine build date 9/20/68 the block had the s overstamped with a X. Tag had XS and vin was XX. Sometimes i wish i had her back but i know it is in good hands. JR.(Wingman)
Quote from: WINGMAN on August 04, 2013, 01:44:01 PM
When i had mine build date 9/20/68 the block had the s overstamped with a X. Tag had XS and vin was XX. Sometimes i wish i had her back but i know it is in good hands. JR.(Wingman)
I hope my daytona is still safe and sound :icon_smile_big:
Just a bump on this old thread about 500's.
Thanks for that Danny. :2thumbs:
Some of the fun with the C500 is they are kind of in between the others.
I would like to hear more from those that bought them new. :shruggy:
Questions like---How were these promoted by the dealers? Were the differences from the plain old/new chargers what moved someone to buy? Were they discounted because they were odd etc.?
I've heard lot's of how the Daytona's and ---the other brand (Plymouth cars) :slap:--tended to be a hard sell because of the numbers of cars that were made from a decision that was not based on customer demand.
My curiosity comes from thinking about our hobby in general. Sometimes a cars history is traced back to the original owner but I've heard little about the experience from them :shruggy:
Are you looking for what the situation was like when the original owner got the car or did I miss something ? :shruggy:
Quote from: Highbanked Hauler on December 17, 2014, 08:50:01 PM
Are you looking for what the situation was like when the original owner got the car or did I miss something ? :shruggy:
Not so much the situation with buying the car.
I bought my first new car in 69. --a 383 superbee-- At the time I had no clue what a C500 was and first heard about them about a year later.
I'm just curious about the car in general from the beginning and in my question is my interest in how they fit in with the other chargers for sale at the time.
Hi Aero's,
I was getting worried about the vin/title errors on my 500 too?
When I register next year in the UK I will take my vin plate with me and get the 'XS' title corrected (hopefully).
Not sure what to do about the engine block being 'XS' though?
Just stamping over the 'S' with an 'X' looks real bad to me???
I will probably just leave that alone methinks and hope most Folks won't notice?
My 69 Sixpack Superbee only had the numbers stamped with no additional info.
Maybe Coronet engines built somewhere else to the Chargers in 69?
5J
I'm sure the number stamping accuracy had something to do with how much the assembly line worker was drinking (or smoking?) on their previous break. By all means leave your block number alone. It's historic record. Better be a factory goof than a tampered serial number.
My how things have changed. When I was working on a Kenworth assembly line, it was not uncommon to replace an entire frame rail on a freshly completed semi truck because of the smallest issue with the serial number stamped in the frame. We're talking an easy 50 hours of overtime pay + the cost of the new rail.
Jon if your engine and trans are stamped XS I would highly recommend leaving it that way. Many are stamped that way. Many are double stamped from factory too.
Quote from: 5hunert on August 04, 2013, 10:33:19 AM
Mine's a Nov. 20th. Both tags are XX, but both the engine and trans numbers have over strikes on the second digit. They were both stamped XS, then the S was over struck with an X. The build sheet (wrong car, 30 numbers off) had XS at the top.
Just an update. I found my car's broadcast sheet; it had an XS number on the top, November 20 build.
November 20th seems to the transition date on broadcast sheets from XS to XX. Fender tags switched on November 14.
My 500 was December 19th build date.
Last day for 500's in 1968.
I'm 248662 and there are two more known at 665 and the number of the beast '666'..... :METAL: (closest to devil?)
If we have the start date and the end date and the sequence numbers (batches) then a rough calculation should be possible?
A grid can be formulated of what days and how man Charger R/T's were sent to Creative.
This can be cross checked with the 69 R/T database to see where the HOLES are in the sequences???
If we can crack 'ENIGMA' WE CAN SOLVE THE 45 YEAR MYSTERY of Charger 500's without GG!!!
When I saw the Florida Title for my C500 and its lack of information I was quite shocked!
Someone 'hole-stamped' over the vin details as well???
Once the C500 is registered here in the UK this document will be lost unfortunately.
OOPS, Hemigeno has sorta shot my idea down already on da other thread! :RedXShoot:
Back in 1986 when I was looking to buy a 69 500 I called on a 500 that was listed in Hemmings, It was a F8 440 with 4 speed . The VIN is XX29l9B238077 VON 925295 sold by Stanley Dodge in National city CA. The owner sent me copies of the window sticker, broadcast sheet and the shipping invoice from Chrysler to Creative dated 1-15-69. This proves that 500s were still being converted in vary early 1969. Also on the Creative invoice on upper left is shipper requested by C.B.Wickard, issued by F.Worbitzer and shipped by G.W.Zito. invoice#3455249 with the VIN and VON listed and 5 tires and 5 wheels. On the lower right in the summary of pkgs.or containers there is a hand written (green) and the number 496. So is this 496 the number of 500s that were received by Creative or what. To be continued :popcrn: (Wingman0 Jay.
Could it be just the date they happened to send the shipping invoice? I ask because in the 69 Registry the scheduled build date from the fender tag for 238077 is November 20, 1968 and the other VON's from that group all correspond to that date as do ones coming later in December.
Keep in mind that the Scheduled Production Date (SPD) is the date Chrysler HOPED to build the car when the order was first entered into the system.
Evidence has shown that their hopes were dashed to pieces all the time.
Absolutely, just saying that it would mean they were a couple of months behind production if this is the case.
Some were built on time, some early & some late.
Production never stopped, it was just not always in the order that most seem to assume.
Quote from: WINGMAN on December 20, 2014, 06:21:33 PM
Back in 1986 when I was looking to buy a 69 500 I called on a 500 that was listed in Hemmings, It was a F8 440 with 4 speed . The VIN is XX29l9B238077 VON 925295 sold by Stanley Dodge in National city CA. The owner sent me copies of the window sticker, broadcast sheet and the shipping invoice from Chrysler to Creative dated 1-15-69. This proves that 500s were still being converted in vary early 1969. Also on the Creative invoice on upper left is shipper requested by C.B.Wickard, issued by F.Worbitzer and shipped by G.W.Zito. invoice#3455249 with the VIN and VON listed and 5 tires and 5 wheels. On the lower right in the summary of pkgs.or containers there is a hand written (green) and the number 496. So is this 496 the number of 500s that were received by Creative or what. To be continued :popcrn: (Wingman0 Jay.
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,43271.0.html
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,48955.0.html Stanley dodge F8 green 500
A November 20th scheduled car that was still at Creative on the 15th of January would not be out of line in my opinion. Look at the Daytona shipment list and compare scheduled production dates to actual shipment dates from Creative.
One would think a November 20th car probably did not actually roll down the line until closer to December 1 maybe. Then it was off to Creative. Figure a week waiting in line maybe more, then what 2-3 if not more weeks until conversion was complete. Depending on what color it was and what color they needed to hurry up and get out the door due to an order.
Which is why I said that the late December cars were probably still at Creative up until mid to late February.
Okay, never looked at it that way before and it makes sense.
So what have we come up with here? Is it possible some 500's were finished as Daytona's? Or just that the order on 500's were cut short for the production of Daytona's? Or something totally different. It does make sense the production dates, order dates, scheduled dates are not going to meet deadlines when you have another manufacturer with there hands in the mix.
No, the Daytonas were some months after the 500. Some 500's may have been a little late from assembly line to shipment from Creative but not by a few months.
What we have is a letter from Chrysler stating a certain number of 500's were built and a list that no one is allowed to see that purports many more were built.
Right, even with possibility the last 500 left Creative in late February the first Daytona's were not there until April.
Keep in mind the only reason the 500s (and Daytonas) were built.
To race in Nascar and other sanctioning bodies.
Both cars had to be completely done building out and it had to be certified by Nascar in order to race.
The Riverside race was 2-1-69, and it was race 3 of the 1969 season.
Al Unser was 4th in the #41 Dodge. Now - to see visual proof it was a Charger 500.... :shruggy: in that race!!
Good point there Greg.
CHARGER-392 doesn't really have the same ring as CHARGER-500?
As a remodelled 68/69 Charger maybe Big Bill wasn't too concerned about 500 actually being made.
The Daytona was a different build again with 70 Sheetmetal and a big NOSE!
Ford got away with a lot worse, non legit engines, converted floorpans etc.
As I said, its '392' until the day the 393rd 500 turns up LOL!
Or GG tells us different, yeah right!!! :smilielol:
Happy Christmas Aero's
Bump.
Figure its time to do a bit of an update on this one.
Currently at 320 car in the spreadsheet.
color break down for ones I can confirm via fender tag or broadcast sheet as to their factory colors are as follows
A4 8
B3 1
B5 20
B7 1
F3 6
F5 16
F8 35
Q5 2
R4 46
R6 5
T3 6
T5 18
T7 6
W1 8
X9 9
Y2 8
Y4 4
99 3
Break down of HEMI vs 440 cars
HEMI
101
440 cars
218
Break down of transmissions
4speed 65
AT 138
total of 15 known SE 500's at this point.
total of 6 known cars coded for J46 locking gas caps.
total of 27 known cars to be coded for M25 body moldings
Radio breakdown is as follows
R11 103
R21 12
R22 17
R31 option on 10 cars so far.
Great info. Thanks :2thumbs:
Wow you have really made progress since last time I compared notes!
Did you count the W1/Tan 440 in the known SE's?. The fender tag was MIA, but it surely is one.
Are those Hemi vs 440 numbers correctly typed? :o
By chance do you have an F3 Hemi 4-speed car from OR in there? If not, maybe I need to finally see if I can verify it via road trip this summer. Besides, my 500 could use a good carbon blow out.
Quote from: RallyeMike on May 18, 2020, 09:41:02 AM
Wow you have really made progress since last time I compared notes!
Did you count the W1/Tan 440 in the known SE's?. The fender tag was MIA, but it surely is one.
Are those Hemi vs 440 numbers correctly typed? :o
By chance do you have an F3 Hemi 4-speed car from OR in there? If not, maybe I need to finally see if I can verify it via road trip this summer. Besides, my 500 could use a good carbon blow out.
white with tan interior is included in SE.
yes Hemi vs 440 numbers are correct
I only have one HEMI F3 car but do not have entire fender tag info on the car.
Just for comparison I thought I'd take a look at the registry I curate to see where it is, though not all are confirmed by tag/sheet as Danny's are. Numbers in blue.
Quote from: 69_500 on May 17, 2020, 11:33:52 AM
Figure its time to do a bit of an update on this one.
Currently at 320 car in the spreadsheet. 310
color break down for ones I can confirm via fender tag or broadcast sheet as to their factory colors are as follows
A4 8
B3 1
B5 20 12
B7 1
F3 6 3
F5 16 5
F8 35 27
Q5 2 1
R4 46 18
R6 5 3
T3 6 7
T5 18 7
T7 6 4
W1 8 4
X9 9 8
Y2 8 4
Y4 4 2
99 3
Break down of HEMI vs 440 cars
HEMI
101 98
440 cars
218 207
Break down of transmissions
4speed 65 39
AT 138 86
total of 15 known SE 500's at this point. 3
total of 6 known cars coded for J46 locking gas caps. 1
total of 27 known cars to be coded for M25 body moldings 9
Radio breakdown is as follows
R11 103 43
R21 12 8
R22 17 4
R31 option on 10 cars so far.
Now I am curious as to which one in T3 I am missing.
Should be easy to figure out.
Quote from: Homerr on May 19, 2020, 06:43:22 PM
Should be easy to figure out.
You sure 224399 is T3? 69 Charger registry had the car as T7 and I have info stating it is T5. Only have a few older pics of the car, and can't use those to verify color. I don't have that particular car logged as one of any color since I can't pin point exactly which tan it is.
Quote from: Homerr on May 19, 2020, 06:43:22 PM
Should be easy to figure out.
166353 E86 D32 T3
217202 E74 D32 XX T3
220077 E86 D32 T3
220086 E74 D32 XX T3
232015 E86 D32 XX T3
232020 E74 D32 XX T3
Quote from: 69_500 on May 19, 2020, 08:55:55 PM
Quote from: Homerr on May 19, 2020, 06:43:22 PM
Should be easy to figure out.
You sure 224399 is T3? 69 Charger registry had the car as T7 and I have info stating it is T5. Only have a few older pics of the car, and can't use those to verify color. I don't have that particular car logged as one of any color since I can't pin point exactly which tan it is.
It does look darker than T3. I did a search and am revising it to T5 based on this post:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,49304.0.html
Nice work Homerr!
Only 35 F8 grennies... :eek2:
The way talk about the 'green devils' I thought it would be at least 100... :slap: :smilielol:
Not as popular as folks may think, 'back in the day'?
Still gotta be better than ARRGH-FOUR red yuk... :nana:
Homerr who has access to add pics on that site? there are several mislabeled as to what car they are, and one VIN has pics of another VINs car.
Quote from: 69_500 on May 22, 2020, 04:52:07 PM
Homerr who has access to add pics on that site? there are several mislabeled as to what car they are, and one VIN has pics of another VINs car.
I add the pics. I fixed a couple of links that were linked to the wrong car in the last month. Errors are usually mine. PM me or post the VIN's here and clue me in and I'll fix.
Quote from: Homerr on May 22, 2020, 05:58:45 PM
Quote from: 69_500 on May 22, 2020, 04:52:07 PM
Homerr who has access to add pics on that site? there are several mislabeled as to what car they are, and one VIN has pics of another VINs car.
I add the pics. I fixed a couple of links that were linked to the wrong car in the last month. Errors are usually mine. PM me or post the VIN's here and clue me in and I'll fix.
Folder for 210742 has pics at the bottom of 110614. Plus another pic of a completely different 500
217138 and 217158 have the same pics
Thanks Danny! I think I got those all straightened out. :2thumbs:
Quote from: Homerr on May 23, 2020, 09:34:42 AM
Thanks Danny! I think I got those all straightened out. :2thumbs:
I spent about 2 hours going through and fixing various typos on SON and other items that people had input that I have the fender tag or broadcast sheets to verify changes. I admit that in my own spreadsheet I spent 5 hours on the other night and found 4 typos I had made myself.
Here is another update,
I keep seeing people mention 440 4 speed 500's as 1 of 26.
allow me to correct that.
I have info on 26 HEMI 4 speed 500's
and drum roll
I have full info on 41 440 4 speed 500's
that is the current count in the spreadsheet.
Quote from: 69_500 on May 24, 2020, 06:42:39 PM
Here is another update,
I keep seeing people mention 440 4 speed 500's as 1 of 26.
allow me to correct that.
I have info on 26 HEMI 4 speed 500's
and drum roll
I have full info on 41 440 4 speed 500's
So Danny Do you have a picture of the spreadsheet listing the total 69 Charger 500?
that is the current count in the spreadsheet.
Quote from: Jfbosco on June 01, 2020, 04:24:51 PM
Quote from: 69_500 on May 24, 2020, 06:42:39 PM
Here is another update,
I keep seeing people mention 440 4 speed 500's as 1 of 26.
allow me to correct that.
I have info on 26 HEMI 4 speed 500's
and drum roll
I have full info on 41 440 4 speed 500's
So Danny Do you have a picture of the spreadsheet listing the total 69 Charger 500?
that is the current count in the spreadsheet.
As in the entire shipment list? No I do not. I only have cars I have tracked down.
Hello just looking through the post and saw the 500 I own. It is vin #xx29L9B214397. It is the one with the gas can sitting on fender, it is a 440 4spd. I do not have the original engine but everything else is #s matching would love to find original engine. Who is Dana is my car vin close to his. I purchased the car around 2006, in Randleman, N.C. maybe you can add it to the list. Thanks Lee
Quote from: lee hughes on June 02, 2020, 08:25:25 PM
... Who is Dana is my car vin close to his. .... Thanks Lee
You mean a 500 nicknamed Dana or an actual person? I used to have a T7 Dark Bronze 4speed 500 I called Dana
Hello, I guess I am talking about a car named Dana! Sounds almost like the same car I have. Just thought you were trying to keep in touch with where they all were. Have a nice day! Lee
neither are in Homerr's awesome 69 500 registry :o
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,137975.0.html
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,137972.0.html
Quote from: tan top on June 04, 2020, 05:15:26 AM
neither are in Homerr's awesome 69 500 registry :o
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,137975.0.html
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,137972.0.html
Both were in my list. Both listed as just pieces. For the 4 speed though I have info on the car, looking for contact info of previous owners.
Quote from: 69_500 on June 05, 2020, 04:46:01 PM
Quote from: tan top on June 04, 2020, 05:15:26 AM
neither are in Homerr's awesome 69 500 registry :o
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,137975.0.html
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,137972.0.html
Both were in my list. Both listed as just pieces. For the 4 speed though I have info on the car, looking for contact info of previous owners.
oh right ! thats good you have info ! them documented etc !
had hopped for a second , that previously 2 unknown undocumented C500s had turned up,
:cheers:
I always hope that too but Im never surprised when he already has them. :cheers:
Quote from: lee hughes on June 03, 2020, 09:15:53 PM
Hello, I guess I am talking about a car named Dana! Sounds almost like the same car I have. Just thought you were trying to keep in touch with where they all were. Have a nice day! Lee
Did you get it from a firm in Blue Mound Texas? This is the car I used to have..