They didn't hold back on the new owner. I know most think that "It's your car and you can do whatever", but I love the old school and pretty much agree with MCG on this. Although calling the guy out publicly, I don't if I would have done that.
Well I thought it should have been left as is, but the new owner did not see it that way.....
Quote from: Blown70 on November 13, 2008, 06:29:47 PM
Well I thought it should have been left as is, but the new owner did not see it that way.....
Apparently MCG has not seen the photos of the multitude of 1970's body shop shortcuts and deterioration under the surface that this car has suffered.
Justin made this very clear in the beginning that the despite the photos of the car as purchased, that it truly had some issues underneath that needed attention. It's pretty apparent by the progress photos taken, that this was a car that really needed the restoration. It has much more corrosion and bondo that I thought it would have had. I originally was also in support of letting it be. But there are corrective measures now being taken on so many fronts, he and the owner are is doing the right thing.
Did not say anything about it NOT having issues, I just think is should be put back to the way it was.
Sorry I agree with the statement of walking down a row of birds, while impressive to me. THIS would stand out more as it was then what it will NOW BE.
Everyone will have their own opinion of what should or should not have been done. Fix what needed fixin and LEAVE it be. I say
Heck I know I posted on the thread about this way back when, and truely feel it is the owners decision, but I know what I would have done. THEN AGAIN, I dont have $80,000 to purchase the car in the first place so I can STFU, I suppose EH?
Tom
No doubt that the feel good approach would be to try and limp it along as is, or restore in the custom paint. Nostalgic as it may be, the hard facts are that it isn't often you spend the money for a ground up restoration and paint it as a day two custom. The reality is that once you start digging into that car to repair things, you are into the whole car. There is hardly a panel that has not needed corrective work. Also, future owners probably will not want the car in a custom configuration, let alone what the current owner wants. The current owner may have no attachment to the old paint job.
I have a similar dilemma with my Daytona. It will not get a full blown restoration, but needs paint pretty bad - although it looks good on a 72 dpi computer screen. I love the sentiment of the old paint, but I will only have one shot in my financial revolver to repaint the car. Custom, or V2 with a white stripe. It will be a tough decision what to do.
The American way. We measure our affection for older things by how hard we've tried to make them look new again.
The "newer = better" ethos is so built into our culture that we rarely question it.
How about....restoring it....to it's modified appearance? :scratchchin:
I am an as-built,factory,all the paint daubs kind of guy.But to me if you are not contributing $$$$$$$$$$$ to the restoration then yiu don't have a say.If your car is modified with paint or whatever that add to the mystique of the car.I enjoy both but I get glassy eyed over a factory type restoration.JW
it did not look it at first , but once striped down , it needed a restoration :yesnod: ... :shruggy:
I'm kind of on the fence on this one. Without question the car was well known among the wing car crowd and it provided an interesting look at a specific time period in automotive history that many of us recall fondly. There is also a very good argument to be made for the "now it's just another orange Superbird" point. And certainly, the restoration could be made as the car was painted for much of the 70's.
However, most of the wing cars seem to be known to one degree or another by the cognoscenti whether they are bone stock or painted wildly (between three regulars just on this site they must personally know of 2/3 of the Mopar aero cars). "Just another orange Superbird" is really only a good argument when it's parked at Carlisle or a wing car meet next to several other orange 'birds. At 90% of the rest of it's time, it's AN ORANGE SUPERBIRD!!!!
As for honoring a past custom paint job, we are all just stewards of these cars for a future generation. When I own a car, it's mine to do whatever the hell I want with it. Whose to say that I won't be the person who owns the car the longest and it achieves greater notoriety under my care? Perhaps I'll custom paint a car and it will become more widely known as I had it. And after I sell it, maybe I'll care while I know where the car is and what is happening to it (I know this firsthand), but after I'm dead and gone?
I can sympathize with MCG's point of view here pretty easily but I can't by any means throw rocks at the owner for returning the car to stock. Maybe if it was something truly historic like a factory race car and somebody was changing it, but to paint over a custom job by a private regular owner?
Wow! I have been waiting for the articale to hit the shelves... I haven't gotten my copy yet. When I talked to Randy about the article I knew he planned on bashing the idea of a factory stock resto.... but I didn't think he would bash the owner THAT bad! haha. Oh well, it's out there now... no turning back, huh? I honestly couldn't say which way I would go on this subject. Probably more towards the retro look. I love factory fresh cars, but I can REALLY appreciate a vintage era car.
I would like to take a chance to correct some of the article. The owner of the 'Bird (Doug White) is actually my boss and owns the body shop where I work. The article makes it out like Doug is just another customer. As for Mr. Beeler selling the car, that isn't true. From what I understand, Mr. Beeler had three wing cars and gave each of his sons a car. The son who got the blue car put it up as collateral for something and lost it to the bank. The bank listed it on RM Auctions and then the buyer sold it on ebay.
Hey DougSchellinger, I love your car.... how cool is that! I think it is great that you would like to preserve the history of your car. That paint job would not be hard to reproduce from what I can tell. I would love to tackle that. Randy Holden (editor of MCG) and I were talking about a local '70 Cuda that has a crazy psychodelic paint job on it... this car made the World of Wheels show curcit. I want to purchase the car just so I can restore it back to the way it was.... crazy paint and all.
Justin
"CornDog"
QuoteI would like to take a chance to correct some of the article. The owner of the 'Bird (Doug White) is actually my boss and owns the body shop where I work. The article makes it out like Doug is just another customer.
Hey Justin, Give me a call after your boss reads the article, :popcrn: I'm looking for a great paint/body man and i'm only about 8hrs away. J/K Your doing a great Job :2thumbs:Ken
HAHA, too funny. I actually already warned him that there were gonna be a lot of unhappy people... Randy being one of them... he just said... Oh well, it's my car. He thought the car was ugly. In a sense, I can understand where he is coming from, but a can also appreciate the way the car was..... enough to leave it alone. I can't wait to get my shop built here at the house, I have too many people wanting to do their cars. I could almost quit work and work at home on other people's cars.
Justin
"CornDog"
All I can say is WOW
:soapbox:
If I purchased a car that was in fair condition and really needed to be restored, I would hate to think I have to have the approval of the united nations.
Yes the car was known to harcore Superbird owners for years, which amounts to a relatively small handful of people in the world of auto enthusiasts.
Sorry - - Never met Carroll Beeler - Never heard of him. Did the car have a racing history?? Was it ever on a TV or in a movie? Did it ever have any salt flat records. Hmm - not by the looks of it. To me the car was something with an old two-tone paint job that was only marginally attractive to begin with. I saw a reference to a Barris car - WHAT???? I saw no body modifications - nothing other than a stock car. Since when is a two-tone paint a custom car??? In that case, A bunch of half primered cars would be winning car shows.
Sorry, but that paint was what, the third paint job - Horrors - why change the first two? Isn't that as bad as changing it a again?
If some editor at MCG wanted to save it, they should have bought it. Or maybe they should offer to take up a collection to pay for the restoration back to what it was - of course you would have to decide which of the previous paint jobs to restore it to.
Before everyone completely bashs me, I would like to say my head is hurting from the amount of knowledge about these cars that I have tried to learn from you guys in the short time I have been on this site. From the guys with the intimate knowledge of every part number, production flaw, ect. to the guys building other clones. I can't get enough from this site!!!
I have saved on my computer pictures of the same car with the "old" paint job, and I love it. I also have every photo corndog has published on this site of it. I save every picture I can find on the internet of the "just a bird" that I can find. If your Superbird or Daytona has a pic on the internet, I likely have a copy of it, (if not please send one to me). I'm not looking for JUST restored" cars, original cars, race cars or wrecked cars, I want ALL of them. I love and respect these cars so much, I am building a clone just so I can have a copy for myself.
Since the car is obviously dated and at the time in its life it needs restored - a decision had to be made - who are they (MCG) or us (DodgeCharger.com) to say what the current owner can or can't do with it. Its is still a rare car and from the looks of the restoration, about to be one of the finest examples of what the minds at Creative Industries intended it to be. :notworthy:
As far as custom and history I'm sure the pic below has some too, but I would be the first one to recommend an original restoration rather than try to save a piece of history.
Rant off :popcrn:
Scotty
Ask Randy if he still feels the same way about leaving them alone after seeing that pic. ;D
Ya - dont worry guys the head guy at MCG Rob Wolf is a ****sucker of the first order... he is never shy about his opinions and thinks that his word is law... **** him...
"Radical custom Mopar" WTH is MCG talking about? A goofy paint job, MT valve covers and some interior work?
The car is a typical worn-out 70s-80's street rod. It's not important historically in any sense. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, including MCG writers, but they are all wet on this one.
Quote from: BPTRacing on November 13, 2008, 11:20:52 PM
As far as custom and history I'm sure the pic below has some too, but I would be the first one to recommend an original restoration rather than try to save a piece of history.
Rant off :popcrn:
Scotty
Yes it does Scotty... I chased it down in the 1980s with a 6 Cyl GMC pickup to take those pictures... wonder what MCG's position is on that car...
Allen
The camper Superbird is an excellent example.
I personally would have wanted to see the car as it was at next year's Talladega meet, and I would have driven the wheels off of it until then. My problem with the full restorations is that you're likely to do an excellent job and relegate the car to trailer status. as it was it could have been driven to spring fling with no regrets...
then again, we have three dirty wing cars here that all need restorations so my opinion is also as skewed as it is irrelevant!
MCG went overboard with the "terror at Talladega" bit, too. they sure are a dramatic bunch.
I hated to see this car get restored original because it was such a cool piece of history . I changed my mind after seeing justins pictures and how bad the car was covered up under that paint . It is not our car to say what is done to it anyway . MCG needs to but out ! :Twocents: They can state an opionion but dont berate the guy .
Quote from: xs29j8Bullitt on November 14, 2008, 04:09:36 AM
Yes it does Scotty... I chased it down in the 1980s with a 6 Cyl GMC pickup to take those pictures... wonder what MCG's position is on that car...
Allen
Allen,
I thank you for having the foresight back in the 80's for obtaining those pictures! I read the small history you provided about the disabled owner and I forgive him! LOL
Just another wonderful tidbit of info from the vast wealth of knowledge I have gained from this forum!
I too wonder if maybe Rob would take a slightly different stance on retaining those modifications.
I'm sure my modified clone project will raise some disapproving eyebrows among some, and at first was hesitant about even getting on this board due to it being "just a clone" and modified to boot, but I sure don't see any justification in slandering a guy in print for wanting to restore a car back to its original glory.
To Mr. Doug White,
I hope one day to see your wonderful restoration and shake your hand in person!! :2thumbs:
And from the looks of most of this post, you will be warmly welcomed here on this forum!
Justin - keep the pictures coming! I can always get a bigger hard drive!
Scotty
Doug S. I love the car they way yours is. However, again its YOUR car. You want to make camper special do so. Not that you would, however, to me I like the nostalgia of the CARs yours too.
JUSTIN, I think you are doing a great JOB with the work dont take away that you are NOT.... GREAT WORK.
ALSO, keep in mind some people will not like my 70 as its TORN up. See below.
Quote from: Blown70 on November 14, 2008, 10:13:53 AM
Doug S. I love the car they way yours is. However, again its YOUR car. You want to make camper special do so. Not that you would, however, to me I like the nostalgia of the CARs yours too.
JUSTIN, I think you are doing a great JOB with the work dont take away that you are NOT.... GREAT WORK.
ALSO, keep in mind some people will not like my 70 as its TORN up. See below.
Blown70 - Nice toy, yep I have your pics saved as well ;)
I am particularly interested in the rare factory rack-n-pinion steering ant 12-point cage!
Do you have a thread somewhere with more pics and info on what you are planing to do with this car?
Scotty
BPT,
No not much progress, I want to run the car on the street, so I took the racing front end off the car. I do plan to run a hemi, however, this past year life got in the way a bit. She is sitting patiently in the shop waiting for her turn.
I will start some this next summer, as the bills will be paid down...... The Chassis work is completly done, as is the rear 4-link. Have thought many times about selling it but, well, you know how tough that can be.
SORRY FOR THE HIJACK. if you have more questions PM me here.
Thanks,
Tom
its the dudes car he can do whatever he wants to it.
however....if it had been my car...the way I see it theres already a lot of super perfect restored ones...so , if I was in the position to blow 150K on a resto on this car not only would I restore it back to its 70's appearance, but I'd go even further and do it completely up in all pimped NOS 70's hotrod gear and have the interior redone super insanely custom in the style of the day etc and create an awesome, awesome 70's freakout. drive it around wearing an afro wig baby. Hell take it to the nostalgia drags once in a while...would be a blast.
really get into it ya know...I bet 99 out of a 100 people would just dig that at shows, while the resto purists could have a field day hatin'...everyones happy.
You know, MCG is still my favorite Mopar magazine but I can never decide for sure if they are Mopar extremists or just trying to become the Mopar Enquirer.
I like the magazine,I subscribe. I mean, what other one has an editor that proudly sports a mullet? one a certain level thats like 100% awesome.
There are simply too many orange Superbirds out there. BUT it all comes down to the fact that its the owners car and he can do what he wants with it. Yes I agree, the car was very cool and should of been left alone OR restored back to that colour scheme BUT I think MCG went overboard and it wasn't called for. :Twocents:
That's what I mean, they pull no punches and this car is a good example. Their opinion may be over the top, but congratulations for having the balls to print it. Some magazines gush so much over every car and advertiser that you just don't know when to believe them. With MCG, the encouragment would have to be "form your own opinion and be just as vocal about it". We don't have to all agree to all love this hobby or this car.
T5, you may have missed my point. When I used the "too many" example, I mean it in context of a show with a bunch of others. Driving around my hometown, it would be the only one for a hundred mile radius (excluding Detroit). What I was trying to say was that as much as I appreciate automotive history and trying to preserve, in this case is the cars history (meaning the custom paint) any more valid than it's next history? I see both sides but I think at the end of the day I can't say one viewpoint is any more correct than the other.
Quote from: Ghoste on November 14, 2008, 11:42:08 AM
When I used the "too many" example, I mean it in context of a show with a bunch of others. Driving around my hometown, it would be the only one for a hundred mile radius (excluding Detroit).
Yes but when you go to wing car shows in particular, there are a lot of orange Superbirds, where as that one would stand out for sure. But like I said, it's his car, he can do what he wants with it. I know what I would do if I had it but I dont...
As others have already stated, I'm a firm believer of returning these cars to their "left-the-factory" look, BUT history is history and the truth of the matter that this is the ONLY car with it's history - period (as many of these same cars have NO significant history)... Like they mentioned in the MCG article, if you are not willing to preserve the history of the car - leave it alone and don't buy it in the first place! He could have easily bought the best example of what this car will end up being for much less than what he'll have tied up in it after the resto...
YES - the 'Bird needed the resto, we have all came to that conclusion from CornDog's pics
YES - it should be taken back to it's former glory
NO - it should not have it's history wiped away simply because the current owner thought the car was "ugly" - the fact of the matter is that he shouldn't have bought the car in the first place!
BZ
Now wait a minute, didn't the car you are currently restoring have a Daytona wing stuck on it at some point in it's history? Shouldn't you be preserving that?
hahaha - slapping a wing on something after it's sat not running for some time and never saw the road that way is NOT history... if you read through my original thread - I actually looked for old pictures of the car (then Allen posted some w/o the wing right before it was parked) because I WAS going to keep the wing if I could document it... everyone on this board and then some knows how this car spent the majority of it's life (not as a stock orange 'Bird)...
BZ
i would have stabilized all the rust issues and driven the wheels off the car .
did your boss buy the car to flip it and make money ? or is he keeping it for himself. that sucks if he's changing this car just to flip it .
I'm only playing devils advocate BZ, again I say I am very much on the fence on this one. Although likely not, the possibility does exist that there are some who would argue against your not putting a wing on the car. Remember the flak about the donor car? It's not completely dissimilar.
Quote
Yes but when you go to wing car shows in particular, there are a lot of orange Superbirds, where as that one would stand out for sure. But like I said, it's his car, he can do what he wants with it. I know what I would do if I had it but I dont...
It's true that there are a lot of EV2 Tor-Red (aka Hemi Orange) Superbirds out there. The EK2 Vitamin C cars like this one are not seen nearly as much. It's a pretty nice color to have.
So as one of the wing car blue bloods Doug, where do you stand on the restoration of this one? Let me rephrase that, you have stated where you stand on what is happening to the car, how do you feel about what is happening to it's history?
I will never understand this love affair with 70's paint jobs. At what point is a car that was modified 30 years ago transition from 'he raided the JC whitney catalog, what a tool" to "cool day 2 car"
Nobody can answer that and shame on MCG or anyone else for trashing this guy for wanting to put the car back to stock. and once the car gets finished, who's to say that another owner couldn't put it back to the 70's look? after seeing justin's pics, it's clear that the car would be far more accurate if parts of the car were painted a few times before the good ole' red/white/blue was applied anyway.
I guess everyone has a different idea about what nostaglia means to them. When I built my 71 Cuda clone, I threw in a few things that reminded me of my cars that I drove back in the 70's. Rear speaker covers, tach mounted to the column, peace symbol on the dash, etc. My son thought that it looked tacky. He still drives it though...every chance he gets. I plan to build my real 71 cuda to correct factory specs. I don't really feel that there's a "right way" and a "wrong way". Just different ways. I believe in "My car...my way". ;D
Quote from: hotrod98 on November 14, 2008, 03:48:25 PM
I guess everyone has a different idea about what nostaglia means to them. When I built my 71 Cuda clone, I threw in a few things that reminded me of my cars that I drove back in the 70's. Rear speaker covers, tach mounted to the column, peace symbol on the dash, etc. My son thought that it looked tacky. He still drives it though...every chance he gets. I plan to build my real 71 cuda to correct factory specs. I don't really feel that there's a "right way" and a "wrong way". Just different ways. I believe in "My car...my way". ;D
:yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: do what makes you happy , if someone likes it different tell them to make there own !
Maybe I should have left this the way it was! ::)
Quote from: 62 Max on November 14, 2008, 06:16:56 PM
Maybe I should have left this the way it was! ::)
My :Twocents: ---- NOPE - Save the pics to reminisce about and drive the car they way you want it!
Since its unlikely that I will ever see your car in person - from where I'm sitting you have the best of both worlds!
Two sets of pictures of a car that belongs to you! :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
:cheers:
Scotty
MCG can kiss my derrier. The owner can do what he wants and I'd prefer a factory resto vs some ugly cheesy custom paint job that has NO REAL RELEVANCE to Mopar history. Loud mouth shnooks. :Twocents:
Quote from: BPTRacing on November 14, 2008, 06:33:58 PM
Quote from: 62 Max on November 14, 2008, 06:16:56 PM
Maybe I should have left this the way it was! ::)
My :Twocents: ---- NOPE - Save the pics to reminisce about and drive the car they way you want it!
Since its unlikely that I will ever see your car in person - from where I'm sitting you have the best of both worlds!
Two sets of pictures of a car that belongs to you! :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
:cheers:
Scotty
That was in 1982 when I bought it,this is now
So what else would you expect from that publication.(not going to name them) Just looking for a story and start controversy. I out grew that tabloid 2 years ago. Rather deal with this site or C-C.com. I do the net not paper(MSM)
The SuperBird had a history of a bad paint job. how UGLY! I much perfer the factory COLOR! It will be more valueable with a Classic Factory Color than that UGLY Backyard paint job! rusty70cuda :Twocents:
Quote from: 62 Max on November 14, 2008, 07:27:29 PM
That was in 1982 when I bought it,this is now
Another orange Superbird? ::) :nana: :D
This sure is a sore subject with some... but it's definately something that many of us here could probably go both ways on. I love a factory correct resto, but I also love... and can really appreciate period custom paint jobs. BigBlockSam.... to answer your question, my boss plan to keep the car. He has a few other mopars, but has wanted a Superbird since they were new. In his teenage years, the closest he came to having a Superbird was when his cousin bought a '69 RR. They tore up the streets in Jackson back then and ever since... he wanted a 'Bird.
Randy Holden is a good friend of mine and is the the one responsible for the article. I know Rob only from when I have dropped into the office at MCG and spoke with him. He seems alright but haven't really gotten to know him. Knowing Randy like I do, I can probably tell you why he was so negative in the article. First off, Randy loves wing cars and has owned at least one of them in the past, possibly more. Secondly, Randy is a HUGE history buff. He loves everything to do with old war tanks, planes, guns, and other memorabilia. Heck, he loves everything that has anything to do with history. Just read a few of his articles and you'll easily see. He likes to start off an article with it's earliest known history and go from there. He was heavy into mopars back in the day when it was common to see cars like the one I am restoring. When I first mentioned to him that I was restoring this car, he knew exactly which car I was talking about and was very familiar with it. So you put all of that together and it is easy to understand why Randy feels the way he does about this car. It is one of the few cars that still retained it's 70's era look... and now it is erased.
Justin
"CornDog"
I say let him make the car his way. I think making it back to original is the way to go. It will be worth more in the long run and as was pointed out earlier, restorations cost alot of money. Having the final product meet the most economic potential possible is only smart. This car is only special to a few hardcore wing car lovers. If he restored this car to the custom paint job and put it up on Barrett-Jackson, do you think it would get as much money as he would with the factory correct paint. I don't think so. Not saying he is going to do that. I read he is keeping it, but these cars are not Volare's. These cars are big bucks and keeping the economic aspect of these cars as high as possible has got to be part of the decision process. And those of you who say its only paint and can be changed, remember that next time you bash a Charger with a General Lee paint job. :icon_smile_big:
QuoteigBlockSam.... to answer your question, my boss plan to keep the car. He has a few other mopars, but has wanted a Superbird since they were new.
:cheers: very cool, i'm glad he got his dream car . then he deserves to have it the way he wants it.
Quote from: CornDogsCharger on November 14, 2008, 07:57:10 PM
It is one of the few cars that still retained it's 70's era look... and now it is erased.
Justin
"CornDog"
Justin - First let me say NICE WORK - you are my new hero!
BUT ERASED??? NO WAY!!!!
Just because the paint is not the same, it is still the same car! The history will stay with the car even with the original restoration. Keep a large laminated photo of the old paint job and it will always be remembered in its full glory.If fact a good photo of the old paint will likely look better than the car did with the old paint. (I know my old high school sweetheart looks a lot better in my memory than she does now! :eyes:)
As Doug Schellinger pointed out, his current "70's" paint looks great at 72dpi, but up close, needs help. Same with this car. With an old photo nearby, it will still get the "I remember this car!", and now instead of hearing, "it is showing signs of wear" you will hear "WOW thats still in great condition!"
Love it for what it is, not what it was!
Hmm- in retrospect, I suppose what Randy has done is make the car into a Martyer, which of course means it will become more famous after being painted than before! :eek:
Scotty
It's a Vitamin C over white car... in my book that slots in 4th best behind 999/white, 999/black, EW1/W1. I'd LOVE to have it.
QuoteThe history will stay with the car even with the original restoration.
Some history (significant or otherwise) you remember fondly, and due to nostalgia, you always remember it as better than it really was.
Goodbye ratty-bird.
The whole thing is a sticky subject.
As for the Superbird's rust issue - maybe that was legit reason for the owner to have it redone at this time, or maybe it isn't.
Honestly I think "rust preservation" is a murky area that is sometimes used as a justification to redo something because the owner wants to.
It's one thing when the car is heavily exposed to things and the rust issues are actually worsening. We all understand that logic. But it's another thing when an original car is 95% there and the owner just wants the flaws gone.
Some guys drive a car 8 months a year, and they still don't worry about long term perservation until one of the rear spring shackles punches up through the rusted trunkfloor. Others keep a car indoors 362 days a year, and then they still want to strip down surviving 40yo factory paint & respray the entire car because of a few penny-sized rust holes on the lower quarter skins.
As for the Bird in this thread, I could see either argument on that. It definitely looked like it was a mess under the paint. But on the other hand, some cars don't really worsen from that point for another decade or more if they live most of their life indoors.
A lot depends on the intended usage of the car in the present day. And what the owner wants in terms of final condition.
So far I have taken over 1200 pictures of this car starting from day one. The owner will have PLENTY of documentation on how the car once was. To be honest, I told him that he should go as far as getting a diecast Superbird and paint it red (actually hemi orange), white and blue just as the car appeared and display it with the car. I thought that would go good with the car.
Justin
"CornDog"
Me personally I'm on the fence on this one. I loved the retro paint job the car was wearing, really made it stand out from the crowd. However I happen to have a soft spot for OE style restorations as well. Especially on aero cars. I would say "Wing Cars" but we all know that I tend to like the 500's as well, and the Talladega's and the Cyclone Spoiler II's.
I would like to see cars restored with their wild retro paint jobs too. They are something that people remember, and for a lot of these cars they have been in that retro paint job with curb feelers, or flowered floor mats for much longer than they were in stock trim. Heck how many of these cars lost the factory rims within a month of being sold new?
I agree. Day#2 restorations are under-represented at the typical show.
The wheels issue is so true. Going to a Mopar show you'd think all these Hemis and R/Ts rode around in the 1970s with dog-dish steelies, and we all know THAT sure ain't true.
At the end of the day we're just talking about paint & wheels on this Superbird though.
If the car's current owner had wanted all the same restoration done to the car but then he just happened to respray a copy of the custom paintjob back onto it, MCG would probably be praising him for it.
Corndog says he fully recorded the look of the custom paintjob before tearing it off. It could be reapplied with a very reasonable amount of effort (not like some airbrushed mural that realistically nobody can ever re-create the same again). So I don't see any huge harm done in this case.
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on November 16, 2008, 01:54:31 AM
It could be reapplied with a very reasonable amount of effort. So I don't see any huge harm done in this case.
It's only paint. :yesnod:
:buff: :paintingpink: :drive:
The article in MCG makes it sound like it is a mortal sin to restore this car.There were/are thousands of cars from that era,all brands with custom paint (if you want to call it that) applied at the owners personal taste.Some like them,some don't.I can't see where restoring a car is losing a piece of history.Its only paint.As for a piece of history,what would you do with this car,let it sit as found or restore the car.Same scenario. :Twocents:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110306170567#ht_3045wt_0
Now that Pontiac is a TRUE piece of history.... This car is no comparison to that car... but to answer your question... in my opinion, I think that car should be restored to "as raced" condition. The Superbird mentioned here isn't so much a "historical" car... but more so a "popular" car in the wing car community. Outside that, it's nothing outstanding.
Justin
"CornDog"
I'll agree somewhat on that one. I think that people remember the modified/custom wing cars a lot more than we would like to think. I know that when I'm sorting through the thousands of photo's I have, the ones that really stand out are the modified cars, and or the ones that I know my dad used to own. The custom/period paint jobs added a personal touch to the cars. Personally it makes them more identifiable to me, as in ones that people would probably drive and enjoy. Once they are OE restored the chances of them truly being driven and enjoyed is small to none in most cases. Nothing like seeing one of these aero cars just cruising down the interstate.
The Superbird in question reminds me alot of a Petty blue Daytona with red wing that appeared
in muffler ads back in the day. I liked that Daytona alot. I like the Superbirds custom paint
(although without the vinyl top). It reminds me of the Pete Hamilton's #40 Superbird; only better.
Anyone know of that Daytona I mentioned??
Oh - do what you will with your car! Restoration to day 2 begins with day 1.
Quote from: BROCK on November 16, 2008, 08:35:02 PM
The Superbird in question reminds me alot of a Petty blue Daytona with red wing that appeared
in muffler ads back in the day. I liked that Daytona alot. I like the Superbirds custom paint
(although without the vinyl top). It reminds me of the Pete Hamilton's #40 Superbird; only better.
Anyone know of that Daytona I mentioned??
Oh - do what you will with your car! Restoration to day 2 begins with day 1.
The Petty Blue Daytona your talking about was owned at the time by Pete haldiman I believe. I think it was a factory F8 green car? I know he purchased that HEMI Daytona shortly after he sold my dad his HEMI 500, (R4 red, black vinyl top).
Quote from: 69_500 on November 16, 2008, 08:54:45 PM
Quote from: BROCK on November 16, 2008, 08:35:02 PM
The Superbird in question reminds me alot of a Petty blue Daytona with red wing that appeared
in muffler ads back in the day. I liked that Daytona alot. I like the Superbirds custom paint
(although without the vinyl top). It reminds me of the Pete Hamilton's #40 Superbird; only better.
Anyone know of that Daytona I mentioned??
Oh - do what you will with your car! Restoration to day 2 begins with day 1.
The Petty Blue Daytona your talking about was owned at the time by Pete haldiman I believe. I think it was a factory F8 green car? I know he purchased that HEMI Daytona shortly after he sold my dad his HEMI 500, (R4 red, black vinyl top).
Thanks 69_500! Yes, I do remember the HEMI emblem on the door. Do you know if the Petty Blue
Hemi Daytona still wears its custom paint? I don't suppose a magazene ad is enough to warrant
keeping it non-stock - pity.
I think that it has returned to stock trim, years ago that is. I don't think it wore the custom Petty blue paint for very long. There was another 440 powered Daytona that had a similar paint job back in the early 80's as well. I think it was owned by Larry Bell in Indiana.
This car being restored from its 70's appearance of petty blue in red, i read somewhere that the owner of it before had another bird in the same scheme except lime green and yellow, anyone have pics of that car back in the day?
Quote from: THE CHARGER PUNK on November 17, 2008, 12:40:58 AM
This car being restored from its 70's appearance of petty blue in red, i read somewhere that the owner of it before had another bird in the same scheme except lime green and yellow, anyone have pics of that car back in the day?
Click on the link below. It is the 4th picture down.
http://www.superbirdclub.com/customaero.html (http://www.superbirdclub.com/customaero.html)
Also, the Petty Blue Hemi Daytona from the Maremont muffler ad is in there too.
Quote from: BROCK on November 16, 2008, 08:35:02 PM
The Superbird in question reminds me alot of a Petty blue Daytona with red wing that appeared
in muffler ads back in the day. I liked that Daytona alot. I like the Superbirds custom paint
(although without the vinyl top). It reminds me of the Pete Hamilton's #40 Superbird; only better.
Anyone know of that Daytona I mentioned??
Oh - do what you will with your car! Restoration to day 2 begins with day 1.
this car really reminds me of the #40 hamilton car also .
Doug am I right in thinking that the Petty Blue with red hood treatment car was a 440 car that was at one time owned by Larry Bell?
Quote from: 69_500 on November 17, 2008, 04:54:18 PM
Doug am I right in thinking that the Petty Blue with red hood treatment car was a 440 car that was at one time owned by Larry Bell?
This car (Jim Radke/Pete Haldiman) is not the Larry Bell car. You are correct that Larry's car was a 440.
(http://www.superbirdclub.com/files/radke2.jpg)
The orig R-4 Former Larry Bell car has a similar paint job in this link.To Jims Hemi Daytona
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,10887.0.html
Quote from: nascarxx29 on November 17, 2008, 09:41:48 PM
The orig R-4 Former Larry Bell car has a similar paint job in this link.To Jims Hemi Daytona
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,10887.0.html
(http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10887.0;attach=17301;image)
Speaking of Pete Hamilton's Bird, this one was painted up with the nose treatment. It's a real 999 Petty Blue car too.
Wow just WOW :drool5:
Now, I have to get my pc fixed so I can add to my archive :scratchchin:
I'm all for restoration & preservation - but these cars represent unfettered freedom.
Bill France appears to be the beginning of socialism in 71 - but I digress. I don't
watch NASCAR anymore - exceptionalism was driven out of the manufacturing end
of things starting in 71. OK, I'll stop.
:fu: MCG
If the crew at MCG doesn`t like like it, too bad. Rob and the crew at MCG should have bought the car and spent their money the way they saw fit. I personally think what is happening to that bird is the right thing to do. Once the car was stripped down, it was a no brainer that the car was so deteriorated that nothing short of a full resto was in order. I applaud the new owner for putting out the resources to make this car like new and absolutely saving it from letting it slowly rotting away. I understand the nostalgia associated with that car but it was original before it was modified so it is being brought back to it`s as delivered original condition. It is MCG less than accurate way of reporting and attitude that has caused me to let me subscription expire over two years ago and not re-new it. Their word is not god in the world of Mopars.
Quote from: charge-it on November 18, 2008, 12:19:10 PM
If the crew at MCG doesn`t like like it, too bad. Rob and the crew at MCG should have bought the car and spent their money the way they saw fit. I personally think what is happening to that bird is the right thing to do. Once the car was stripped down, it was a no brainer that the car was so deteriorated that nothing short of a full resto was in order. I applaud the new owner for putting out the resources to make this car like new and absolutely saving it from letting it slowly rotting away. I understand the nostalgia associated with that car but it was original before it was modified so it is being brought back to it`s as delivered original condition. It is MCG less than accurate way of reporting and attitude that has caused me to let me subscription expire over two years ago and not re-new it. Their word is not god in the world of Mopars.
Well said - MCG is not an -ism.
If that superbird would have had stable body and paint conditions from its retro day customize.Then you could make the case it didnt need to be tore into and preserved as a former show circuit car.It looks like the change was made to the car as it had body issues and customized ..What if the highly recognized Big Wille daytona gets changed back to regular looking 440 Y2 Daytona.Or the Diamante gets converted back to the first production Hemi Challenger conv made
Quote from: nascarxx29 on November 18, 2008, 12:53:53 PM
What if the highly recognized Big Wille daytona gets changed back to regular looking 440 Y2 Daytona.Or the Diamante gets converted back to the first production Hemi Challenger conv made
While I envy and idolize your EXTENSIVE aero car knowledege :notworthy: that is
comparing
Apples to oranges
You hit it on the head "Highly Recognized" - Two extensively modified, famous cars, famous owners, lots of publicity, news print, and public awareness.
VS. a car with no significant modifications (other than two-tone paint and some valve covers :buff:) known to a hand full of hardcore wingcar enthusiasts, in news print only AFTER it was taken apart.
The Doug White/Beeler car is more well known
now because of the MCG article than is ever was when it was actually on the streets before the article. Of course NOW the car has "history"! Increasing its value as a restored car, even without the old paint.
:2thumbs: Thumbs up to Doug and Justin who can take a car apart and make it famous! I take a car apart and all I have is a pile of parts! LOL
Scotty
That superbird does not have a legendary owner or historic status as my examples :Twocents: It debuted on this site and with that and MCG and internet accelerated its recognition status..I dont dispute the resto wasnt needed.Wonder if this one will stay as was .Or go back
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,49243.0.htm {Comment on this daytona sums it up}
WilliesDaytona
New Member
Offline
Posts: 47
Re: Another Daytona on E bay
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2006, 07:36:08 PM » Quote
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Man all these COOL NONRESTORED CARS coming out of the Woodwork, I wish I could hit the Lottery so I could buy all of them and make sure they don't get made into JUST ANOTHER RESTORED WING CAR..