Since the guages and the dash are about the last section of my car that are still pretty much 45 year old original, I'm looking to make improvements. I have been wanting to restore the original guages for quite some time, I even bought a spare cluster to send out so I could just swap out when it came back. Last year I saw a guy on Moparts (Pynzo) had reported on this fantastic looking setup from Dakota Digital. The cluster is arranged just like the 1968-70 Charger models with two large guages for tachometer and speedo, then the same sized 4 small ones for Gas, water temp, Oil Pressure and an Alternator guage. they use a Voltmeter, surely a safe alternative to the ammeter.
The price is a little less than having the stock guages redone, just under $1000. They have a clock in the lower section of the tach. The gas guage is calibrated by the installer so any deficiencies in the aftermarket fuel sender can be accounted for. Think about that: A classic Mopar with a totally accurate gas guage!
There is a 3 page thread on Moparts regarding an installation but the guy also made several wiring harness changes.
Who has made the change to these guages?
Yeah a few guys did this. Looks awesome. :yesnod:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,114942.0/all.html
I am planning to do the initial run and test on my car in the next couple weeks and will calibrate the fuel guage/speedometer then. Install was straight forward. I rewired the car using a ron francis kit, so can't comment on fitting to stock wiring harness, but it seems to me that rewiring the dash would be the easiest because of the rats nest of wires that the stock harness was.
I made the order tonight, from Summit. I also ordered the auxillary dimmer. I read that the stock dimmer does not work on the new setup. Hopefully the swap will be a smooth one.
You can adjust the dim via the menu's if you want to. Module would be way less of a pain though.
got some more pics? :cheers:
http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=939/category_id=679/mode=prod/prd939.htm
Although they offer a few different face designs, I like the traditional black background with white numbers and letters.
I ordered a cluster yesterday. It ships from the East Coast so it will take 5 business days or more to get it out here in CA. Summit racing has them for $945 with free shipping. I did also order the external dimmer. I'll report back as more info becomes available.
Like so many other people I know, delays happen and I've been unable to stay on task.
I lost my instruction & installation booklet and had to download it from the website. Electrical stuff always makes me nervous so I really needed to have these pages to guide me. I want to address the INOP heater/defroster while the dash is opened up. It hasn't worked the entire 15 1/2 years that I have owned the car. The blower will spin if I attach a hot wire to it, so I'm sure there is something amiss inside. I did buy the reproduction dash trim panels. I figured that new guages with old panels is like old bumpers on a freshly painted car. I'm going to bypass the ammeter by rerouting the wires as described on the MAD Electrical website. They route the ALT Positive wire to the starter relay and run a different wire through the bulkhead connector to power up the interior.
Updates will follow along with a few pictures.
I am going to help install one of these real soon. Same deal, new dash bezels and everything. We installed whatever that popular dash bezel set and gauges that came out two years ago was and are redoing it with this setup. I will keep an eye on this section and see how its going for you..or if we start first, I will post anything that we bump into.
But yeah, this is the perfect time to sort out your wire issues.
In regards to your heater. I would make sure the switch is working. Then for the hell of it, change the fuse it is on. Mine didn't work for a long time, the fuse looked good, but when I tested for continuity, it failed. Snapped in a new fuse and it came to life.
While I have the dash opened up, I'm going to change some of the wiring. Has anyone read THIS...?
http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/amp-gauges.shtml
The vehicle example they use is a mid 70s Dodge truck but the principles are the same.
Yes. We have done that mod to several Chargers. My car had no issues before, so I can't really say I have seen much of an improvement. Along with this mod, I did the headlight mod too.
But we did my friends Charger at the same time. He had some issues. He was eating up alternators. About one a year. We did this mod 9 years ago and he hasn't had to replace the alternator once since then.
When I tried adding relays to the headlights 2 years ago, things went awry....
The guy helping me tapped into the wires to the headlights about where the battery tray is. He only wanted to tap into the low beam circuit. For some strange reason, the headlights and doors didn't work right afterwards. The doors wouldn't close when the switch was shut off, I had to turn the ignition switch on and then back off.
Is there a clear and specific placement of the relays to avoid these problems?
The placement should not make any difference to the operation of the headlights or the doors. Me thinks something else went wrong. I put relays on both low and high beams and I made the cuts close to the rad support. Works for me!
Thank you!
Maybe the problems I had were due to Bob only tapping into the low beam circuit?
It shouldn't really change anything. The power for the low beams would go through the relay while power for the high beams would still go through the stock switch. The headlight doors would only be affected by interfering with the motor wiring, but mine run on vacuum and I'm not too familiar with how yours work. I can only imagine he accidentally cut into a wire he wasn't supposed to.
I'd start by getting rid of the one relay and bringing everything back to stock. Check the wires and repair where needed so everything functions as it left the factory. Then do your mod with dual relays and a fuse or circuit breaker. I installed the circtuit breaker below the relays. When I did my electrical upgrades I had a battery cable made that had an extra 10 gauge wire running from the terminal to the circuit breaker to power the relays.
Thanks, Dino. I'm just picking brains at this point. Like many other people, I often ponder about things I had trouble with, hoping to stumble upon a solution. Old Cops think about unsolved cases, right?
Today I bought some wire and fusible links. I'm replacing the Alternator charge wire. The 2013 harness came with an OEM sized 12g black wire that I upgraded to a 10g. I'm going a step further to an 8g but instead of it going in through the bulkhead, I'm running it to the starter relay. It has a 14g fusible link right at the relay. The inside of the car will be powered up by a 10g red wire, pass through the bulkhead connector via a drilled out passage, then to a 16g fusible link and to the relay.
I'm back at it tomorrow.
Happy Thanksgiving to you then!
Quote from: Kern Dog on November 26, 2015, 12:25:49 AM
Thanks, Dino. I'm just picking brains at this point. Like many other people, I often ponder about things I had trouble with, hoping to stumble upon a solution. Old Cops think about unsolved cases, right?
Today I bought some wire and fusible links. I'm replacing the Alternator charge wire. The 2013 harness came with an OEM sized 12g black wire that I upgraded to a 10g. I'm going a step further to an 8g but instead of it going in through the bulkhead, I'm running it to the starter relay. It has a 14g fusible link right at the relay. The inside of the car will be powered up by a 10g red wire, pass through the bulkhead connector via a drilled out passage, then to a 16g fusible link and to the relay.
I'm back at it tomorrow.
No need to think any further about the MAD Electrical bypass as what you have outlined above will work just fine and is much cleaner, wiring wise. The fusible links will work for you but, I personally prefer fuses. A 50 amp Maxi-Fuse is good for the 16 gauge fusible link and the 14 gauge link replacement really depends on the output rating of the alternator. A 50 amp fuse is fine for stock alternators.
I am using a stock replacement alternator. I'm embarrassed to say I do not know the AMP rating of it! It is not the 37 amp unit though. I'm not sure what is the next one up from that. I'm not running a ton of electronics in the car. Just the radio and other stock based stuff. Besides that, an electric trunk lock release. Not much additional demand as compared to the car had when new, maybe even less since the stock A/C is no longer connected.
A stock alternator for a 68 to 71 with A/C would be a 45 amp round back unit. So, a 50 amp fuse would be fine.
By going to an 8 gauge wire you are going to minimize voltage drop over the stock 12 gauge wire. The 8 gauge is equivalent to four 12 gauge wires in terms of the amount of copper. But, there will still only be 45 amps flowing at maximum alternator output so that is where you want to fuse the circuit. A 14 gauge fusible link would likely allow something over 80 to 90 amps before melting. Fusible links are rather wide range devices and it is difficult to predict at what current level they will actually melt. Fuses have much more defined characteristics. Hope this helps.
Kern, I would use the custom procedure for calibrating the fuel guage. With an aftermarket replacement style sender, still 4 gals in tank when reading empty, reading just over 3/4 when plumb full. Everything else, easy breezy.
Thank you gentlemen!
Quote from: Kern Dog on November 26, 2015, 01:42:39 PM
I am using a stock replacement alternator. I'm embarrassed to say I do not know the AMP rating of it! It is not the 37 amp unit though. I'm not sure what is the next one up from that. I'm not running a ton of electronics in the car. Just the radio and other stock based stuff. Besides that, an electric trunk lock release. Not much additional demand as compared to the car had when new, maybe even less since the stock A/C is no longer connected.
You're not running an afternarket ignition system or anything like that?
Nope. The Mopar Performance electronic distributor, MSD coil and Taylor wires all work just fine.
I don't need no steeenkin MSD system!
Despite the delays of yardwork, visiting relatives and other stuff, I'm back at it and making a little progress.
I installed the oil pressure switch and temperature switch. They are unique for the guage set because of their digital processing. The speedometer pulse generator is also in and the wires for all three are routed through the firewall and into the inside. The speedo is now read by an electronic signal. The wiring to it is soft and since it sits directly above the LH header collector, I had to put in a loop/strap against the floor to keep the wire away from the header. All that remains is to run a separate ground wire for the fuel sender. This is required for proper operation. The cluster is thinner and lighter than stock. It has a "Brain box" that will be mounted directly behind the cluster.
Last week I removed the stock ammeter wiring. The 10g alternator charge wire now ends at the starter relay with a 14g fusible link in it. The interior is powered by a 10g red wire (With a 16g fusible link) that runs through a drilled out passage in the bulkhead connector. No terminal ends, it is a continuous wire soldered to the three wires that go to the Fuse Box, Ignition Switch and Headlight switch. Every new connection has been soldered and shrink wrapped to prevent corrosion.
After I was done with paint in 2003, I went to work on the interior. I did a half ass job on the dash then. I just cleaned and painted the parts in place. It looked okay but I decided to do a little better this time. I pulled the lower dash plastic panels to clean and repaint them.
X
I found it strange that the ashtray is smooth painted steel right next to textured plastic. I decided to spritz some rubberized undercoating on the ashtray to simulate the look.
The Dakota Digital brain box was mounted right behind where the guages will be. The new guages are shallow as compared to the stock ones so there is plenty of room.
i was gonna ask about the mounting location... good that you can put them back there and save your glove-box space.
Luke
I am almost done!
Well it's about time! I've developed quite the drinking habit waiting around. :lol:
That looks sweet! Carbon fiber bezels? I can't wait to see the dash all lit up. :yesnod:
While trying to calibrate the gas guage, I ran through the whole sequence and messed up on the last step where I was supposed to SAVE the final setting. The procedure requires the user to first start with an empty tank, then press a button. Add 1/3 of a tank (6 1/3 gallons)Press button again. Add another 6 1/3 gallons for a 2/3 reading, press button, then add the final 6 1/3 tank for the full 19 gallons....Then press button until SAVE appears on the display. Yeah... That is where I messed up. Not such a bad thing in the end. I pumped all the fuel out and decided to take a look at the sending unit. This was a new unit in 2002. 3/8" from Year One. It was spendy back then: $160 ! The plastic float had gasoline in it but I couldn't squeeze it out or get any bubbles when I sunk it in a bowl of gas. I'm going to replace it anyway.
Get the brass float.
Hey Dino!
Who sells that? On the shelf? I heard that some FORD models had the same float.
These bezels are supposed to be reproductions of the OEM pebble grain plastic. The guages are "Black Alloy".
Those gauges are sweet! I didn't realize they were stock bezels, trick of the light or too late for my eyes.
Several places sell the float, the Ford one is the same I think.
http://www.classicindustries.com/product/mopar/parts/479312.html
I like the look too. I bought a dimmer to tone down the brightness. The kit allows 2 settings on its own. I read that one guy suggested the external switch in case the 2 settings are not enough.
I have to calibrate the speedometer by driving a "Known marked mile". This means that the speedometer is by default calibrated by the odometer. I'll take the wife's 2015 Challenger R/T to measure the mile and mark it with traffic pylons.
There are several custom settings to choose from for stuff like a shift warning lamp, low oil pressure warning, high temp warning, low fuel warning...
Pretty cool stuff. I'm going to enjoy having a gas guage I can trust. The tach reads higher than the old one did at idle. Makes me wonder how accurate the old one was at 5000 and up !
damn you guys with these nice gauges ::) :angel:
You're the one with the big honking blower getting mounted on his motor; plenty to be proud about...
Just out of curiosity, what were your ohm readings. I wonder how much these senders vary? I still have to do mine.
I'll do a test through the system. I thought they had an internal test procedure that helps determine if the sensors are working properly.
I didn't get to test the system today but I did get the engine warmed up. The oil pressure reading did drop some once the engine was warm. I'm just used to the mechanical unit that read approx 35-40 at idle in gear. This new one hasn't dropped below 50. I didn't drive the car yet so maybe as the oil gets hot it may read lower on the guage.
I recalibrated the gas guage AGAIN and was pissed when the guage stopped at 3/4 even with the tank full. This was the same crap I dealt with before with the stock guages. The display shows the Ohm readings during calibration. I had 76 at empty, 63 at 1/3 tank, 34 at 2/3 tank and 19 full. I am not pleased at the idea of sucking out the tank and starting over. The other way to calibrate this is to have the sender out of the tank. I'd probably put the wife in the car and put it on the lift, then have her press buttons while I move the sender from underneath.
Anyhow, the guages look nice. I'll calibrate the speedometer soon. The new rear view mirror showed the proper temperature as expected. I have to drive it to calibrate the compass in it.
Interesting. 76 at empty is what our senders are supposed to be but more like ten at full. When I used the Ford sender parameters, which is closed to be close to what ours are and I believe 75 empty and 9 full, I had 4 gals in tank when reading empty and read 3/4 when full. I have to suck dry and do what you are doing.
I looked at the specs in the factory service manual. They list 73 ohms at empty with a range of + or - 12 ohms as being acceptable! At full they list 9.6 Ohms with a + or - 1 Ohm variance.
That is some sloppy tolerances at empty.
My sender float at empty still sits above the fuel pickup. That is good, since I'd prefer the guage to read empty before I actually stall and run out of gas.
Something that was brought to my attention is that MAYBE my fuel pickup is not resting against the bottom of the tank. A guy at Moparts sent me this TSB:
I took my sender out today and laid it on the table. I took a Sharpie and traced the outline on a piece of cardboard. I then bent the 3/8" line several times until the filter end sat too low and caused the top side of the mounting flange to sit off of the tank. I took some of the bend back out until the flange fit right. THEN I pulled it back out to check it against the original shape that I outlined. I had actually bent it 1 1/4" ! Yes, one and a quarter inches. What the hell ??? This probably means that I'd be running out of gas with at least 3 gallons left in the tank. Not now.
The sender tested at 74 Ohms out of the tank empty and 11.8 full. The 11.8 is a bit out of spec but the new guage setup offers the Custom calibration option that should compensate.
Damn it, I guess I'll end up pulling the tank too. Thanks for the info
The guage calibration is complete. The sender in the car read a little different than on the table, but the guage reads right at F with 19 gallons in it.
The display on the guage read 73 Ohms at empty and 14 at full. At least it went all the way to F with the 19 gallons in it. That is better than before and a LOT better than it was with the stock guages. :2thumbs:
Here is my dakot digitals, I love them .
Cool. We both got the same color and the radio also matches. :2thumbs:
Those are some sweet gauges!
Hey there, Thanks!
Oh, I wanted to ask about the pictures you have posted before with your car. You used a phone app to get that "portrait" look, right? Also, did I see you and the car in Cupertino at a Mopar show in 2014? Nice car, by the way.
Yep that was me at the show, I do remember talking with someone who had a 70 with Intro twisted vista wheels so I'm pretty sure that was you. Not too many mopars running Intro wheels so I always remember those cars. :2thumbs: I dig the stance on yours with the wider fronts, hopefully I'll get to see your car in person one of these days.
Yeah the app is HDR camera studio on the google store. Has a bunch of different effects and settings to play with any pictures. With any photo that doesn't turn out right I usually play around with the app and can turn it into something usable.
That was probably me. I haven't seen another 70 in red with these wheels. I usually go to the Mopar Alley shows to sell at the swap. My car has been to the L.A. Spring and Fall Fling shows a few times but I've yet to bring it to the Mopar Alley show or the one in Madera, the San Joaquin valley Mopars show. I'm a member of the capital City Mopars in Sacramento and selling at our show is difficult since I am busy on car show day with all my various duties. Maybe you'd bring that fine car to our show in June??? :yesnod: :yesnod:
Let me know the date of the show and I'll be there :2thumbs:
Quote from: mantoneshyn on January 05, 2016, 05:19:15 PM
Here is my dakot digitals, I love them .
So do I, nice job!
Quote from: Kern Dog on December 07, 2015, 10:11:11 PM
Despite the delays of yardwork, visiting relatives and other stuff, I'm back at it and making a little progress.
I installed the oil pressure switch and temperature switch. They are unique for the guage set because of their digital processing. The speedometer pulse generator is also in and the wires for all three are routed through the firewall and into the inside. The speedo is now read by an electronic signal. The wiring to it is soft and since it sits directly above the LH header collector, I had to put in a loop/strap against the floor to keep the wire away from the header. All that remains is to run a separate ground wire for the fuel sender. This is required for proper operation. The cluster is thinner and lighter than stock. It has a "Brain box" that will be mounted directly behind the cluster.
Last week I removed the stock ammeter wiring. The 10g alternator charge wire now ends at the starter relay with a 14g fusible link in it. The interior is powered by a 10g red wire (With a 16g fusible link) that runs through a drilled out passage in the bulkhead connector. No terminal ends, it is a continuous wire soldered to the three wires that go to the Fuse Box, Ignition Switch and Headlight switch. Every new connection has been soldered and shrink wrapped to prevent corrosion.
Hi Kern,
I too am doing a Dakota Digital dash conversion on my 68 Charger. Did you use your stock wiring harness with this or did you upgrade to a newer harness? Where did you terminate the 10g interior wire at and which wire from the ignition did you solder to it?
Also, how did you split the "accessory" signal wire from the ignition that is required for the "brain box" and your after market radio or did you?
Thanks
Chris