Most of my old friends live in large cities and are completely immersed in that lifestyle. After a recent wind storm that took out power in many areas around Portland Oregon, many of my friends took to Facebook to voice there dismay. In general, the power was out for anywhere from a few hours up to two days. Listening to their complaints and anger got me to thinking about how unprepared and clueless these people are with regards to simple survival should the electrical grid ever really go down for an extended period of time. At least most of us living a rural lifestyle have the abilities to keep things going for awhile. I've had many outages over the years and one that lasted almost three weeks. We have our own water supply and enough food stored and frozen to last for months. As long as my gas tanks are full, I run the generators for freezers, lights, TV and other conveniences. We grow most of our own vegetables and have the ability to hunt game animals if needed. Granted, if living without power became the norm, most of us would be in the same boat. But, from the comments I was seeing from my city friends over this minor inconvenience, I think chaos would be the norm after only a few days.
I think you're right!
There's a lot to it. I have several groups of friends from different areas and sometimes it is astounding how little they know about each others' lifestyles. In general though, regardless of city or country living, the skills to take care of yourself in an emergency (or otherwise) just aren't being taught any more. Not to mention the overwhelming reliance on technology. Once the batteries die it's chaos.
Troy
Quote from: Troy on April 10, 2017, 10:36:27 AM
There's a lot to it. I have several groups of friends from different areas and sometimes it is astounding how little they know about each others' lifestyles. In general though, regardless of city or country living, the skills to take care of yourself in an emergency (or otherwise) just aren't being taught any more. Not to mention the overwhelming reliance on technology. Once the batteries die it's chaos.
Troy
Yes, the reliance on technology has gotten totally out of hand. So many young people lack basic skills.
It's literally something I think about often. I recycled 250+ programming/IT books a while back. My primary "go to" source for everything (server setup, programming languages, mechanical info, home repair, recipes, cleaning, snake/spider identification, etc.) is Google and I've completely gotten away from books. I do still have the service manuals for my cars but most of that information is quicker to access on my phone. If I ever did lose the internet, all the things I know - but don't do often enough to be proficient - would be lost. It's funny that I have bookmarked some basic survival information that will probably be inaccessible when I need it!
Troy
I remember a time when we had to memorize things as simple as phone numbers, addresses, names of people and businesses. The generations that follow take much of this technology for granted and then when it's time to go to plan "B" there isn't one. Never needed it so why have it?
No matter how far technology advances... Just keep a plan "B" in mind for the simple day to day, and maybe even a plan "C" for when things get really ugly.
Food riots in the cities by the fifth day of a power outage.
Then again, would a man-bunned millennial snowflake high on weed even have the initiative to get out of mom's house and riot for food?
The cities are dangerous due to the residents' profound lack of awareness and preparedness.
I live in the country on purpose. Yes I am a cynic about modern city life.
"country boy will survive".
This is another reason I hate cities, you are completely reliant on the "system" instead of on yourself. My wife and I have this discussion often about how knowing the "old way" of doing things is vital.
How many people know how to properly can their own food any more? Store your own potatoes? Not many. Or even have brains enough to stockpile "boil" foods that have a long shelf life: oatmeal, pasta, instant potatoes, beans, etc.
We used to have "depression day" when our kid was growing up to teach about basic survival needs, no electricity, no car, no phone, no hot water from the tap, etc. For entertainment we told stories, played board games, did chores together, fished, etc. :2thumbs:
Having had grandparents on both sides and parents on my side that lived through the great depression we felt it important to teach our kid how to be self reliant.
My kid was just commenting the other day that we should have a "depression day" and remarking how much fun it was.
Out here in the country we can grow our own food, hunt our own game for meat, chop wood for a fire, and pump our own water out of the ground if need be. :yesnod:
One of the basic critters you need to survive is chickens. If you have those you have a constant source of food with eggs and meat (note to city boys, eat the excess roosters- they're the ones that DONT lay eggs...LOL) and they keep your yard clear of dangerous parasites like ticks which to a chicken are like candy to us, they love 'em! :yesnod:
How's a city boy gonna survive? The only meat in a city once the stores are empty is rats. You city boys can eat rat and I'll enjoy my venison! :smilielol: (venison is deer meat BTW city boy :slap:)
I see a clear distinction between city people and country folks. City people tend to be on a certain side of politics where government is thought of as the center of their lives. The Gov't provides help, answers, support and shelter. They only have to wait until the Gov't gets around to their area to start helping. That could take awhile. In the meantime, the country folks are busy helping themselves and their neighbors with food and shelter moments after the disruption. They are often on the opposite side of politics as the city people because they view Government as an obstruction to their lives, not an enhancement of it.
In clearer terms, many city people are clueless and unprepared because they rely on others too much.
Quote from: Kern Dog on April 10, 2017, 02:57:11 PM
In clearer terms, many city people are clueless and unprepared because they rely on others too much.
That's the way I see it. We have generators here on the farm big enough to run our water wells, and if anything happened to that we have a live spring we can get water from... Food isn't an issue. We still have ways to make butter too. I don't mind helping people that need help but if it gets to an "Every man for himself" situation, we have plenty of ammo to keep people out if things go bad. And yes, we view Government as an obstruction to our lives, not an enhancement of it.
Are we talking a short term disruption of services or a full blown apocalyptic event, like when our new russian overlords decide to cash in their chips?
If its the former, you may have a point.
If its the latter, youre just as screwed and simply delaying the inevitable
What are you gonna feed those chickens? Any grain you may have stored will only last you so long and at some point you may want to eat that grain yoursef.
Youll only be able to hunt for "desireable" food for so long. As more and more of youre neighbors resort to the same thing, the supply will be depleted. I hear possum is tasty if seasoned properly.
Are you gonna be able to pump enough water to irrigate as well as drink?
And this is all assuming everyone in the household is healthy and able enough to carry on those tasks. A broken leg or illnesss and youre screwed - good luck getting medical care.
As supplies run low, you may not be as eager to help your neighbor anymore. Its you and yours or them. And he may not be too happy about that. Now, theyre prolly be like minded country folk wholl do whatever it takes to survive. First target? You.
Lets say you outgun your neighbor. By now, people are fleeing the cities and heading out to the country - looking for isolated targets to loot. Sure, you have all sorts of firepower, but so will they (hello...gang infested cities?) and youll eventually run out of ammo. Plus, as Sun Tzu said, strength in numbers. Not that i expect any illiterate country folks to get the reference. But hey, at least youll all be able to keep the family tree going, if vertically.
Quote from: Kern Dog on April 10, 2017, 02:57:11 PM
I see a clear distinction between city people and country folks. City people tend to be on a certain side of politics where government is thought of as the center of their lives. The Gov't provides help, answers, support and shelter. They only have to wait until the Gov't gets around to their area to start helping. That could take awhile. In the meantime, the country folks are busy helping themselves and their neighbors with food and shelter moments after the disruption. They are often on the opposite side of politics as the city people because they view Government as an obstruction to their lives, not an enhancement of it.
In clearer terms, many city people are clueless and unprepared because they rely on others too much.
Everyone hates the government until they need it.
Jobs disappearing to other parts of the world? Oh the its the
government's responsibility to do something about it and bring them back.
Back when gas prices were at $4-5 gal, I remember seeing posts on this very board by a lot of the very same anti government crowd saying how the government needed to do something about those greedy oil companies.
House getting foreclosed? Why isnt the government going after those wall street bankers?
Free markets be damned, komrades!
Quote from: Ponch ® on April 10, 2017, 03:17:43 PM
Are we talking a short term disruption of services or a full blown apocalyptic event, like when our new russian overlords decide to cash in their chips?
If its the former, you may have a point.
If its the latter, youre just as screwed and simply delaying the inevitable
What are you gonna feed those chickens? Any grain you may have stored will only last you so long and at some point you may want to eat that grain yoursef.
Youll only be able to hunt for "desireable" food for so long. As more and more of youre neighbors resort to the same thing, the supply will be depleted. I hear possum is tasty if seasoned properly.
Are you gonna be able to pump enough water to irrigate as well as drink?
And this is all assuming everyone in the household is healthy and able enough to carry on those tasks. A broken leg or illnesss and youre screwed - good luck getting medical care.
As supplies run low, you may not be as eager to help your neighbor anymore. Its you and yours or them. And he may not be too happy about that. Now, theyre prolly be like minded country folk wholl do whatever it takes to survive. First target? You.
Lets say you outgun your neighbor. By now, people are fleeing the cities and heading out to the country - looking for isolated targets to loot. Sure, you have all sorts of firepower, but so will they (hello...gang infested cities?) and youll eventually run out of ammo. Plus, as Sun Tzu said, strength in numbers. Not that i expect any illiterate country folks to get the reference. But hey, at least youll all be able to keep the family tree going, if vertically.
A few points...
We don't need to irrigate much here in Ohio. We didn't convert a desert into farmland... :P
We have, seemingly, 1,538 deer per person. Rabbits and squirrels outnumber deer 3,000:1. I've caught fish with a bare hook before.
If everyone in the closest city fled to the country we'd still be reasonably sparse.
Chickens eat all sort of things like vegetables, grass, and insects without any human intervention whatsoever.
I shoot about 700 rounds per week now and have a pretty good stockpile so I don't have to buy every week. If I decided to ration ammo for only bad guys it would take me about 20 years to run out. Hopefully I could round up whatever the bad guys were carrying and last a bit longer.
You're assuming country folks wouldn't band together for protection and to share resources.
I grew up in the country, moved to the city, and now I live in the middle. I'm not a survivalist but also get nervous stuck in large crowds. I worked downtown when we had a string of riots. Without transportation, the city dwellers aren't going to make it 25 miles to my place in their Air Jordans.
:D
Troy
QuoteI see a clear distinction between city people and country folks. City people tend to be on a certain side of politics where government is thought of as the center of their lives. The Gov't provides help, answers, support and shelter. They only have to wait until the Gov't gets around to their area to start helping. That could take awhile. In the meantime, the country folks are busy helping themselves and their neighbors with food and shelter moments after the disruption. They are often on the opposite side of politics as the city people because they view Government as an obstruction to their lives, not an enhancement of it.
It's hard to grow your own crops and keep a store of survival supplies when you live in an 800 sq/ft apartment on the 4th floor in a concrete city without a car. (And this is not a description of an extreme poor ghetto living situation in many cities. Lots of middle-class people with real jobs are paying thousands of dollars per month for tiny apartments like that.)
Those dense prosperous coastal cities also tend to be
paying a much bigger share of the govt's yearly taxes too. Some states are effectively carrying others. If the rural states seceded from the big-city coastal states they would be much poorer when the smoke cleared.
Having a lot of ammo is a necessity! Plus you gotta know how to reload ammo if need be. City boys are mostly afraid of guns because they only see gang bangers using them to commit crimes of all sorts, especially murders. No gun ever pulled its own trigger period! Out here in the country a gun is a necessary tool. Especially when you have eastern coyote and coy dog packs running around you never know when you might have to blow their brains out to keep from getting attacked or protect your family or other critters :smilielol: from getting attacked. Those damn things will kill you if you don't defend yourself! That's why I laugh at these retard politicians from the city that think guns are a political statement! Talk about clueless, most of those retards have never even shot a gun. :brickwall:
Most all people who haven't shot a gun before find out its a lot of fun and change their attitude about guns once they feel that lovely kick after they touch off a round- ear to ear grin most ever time! ;D
Hell, sometimes your girls just want to carve pumpkins.. :icon_smile_big:
Sure keeps the boys guessing... :lol:
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on April 10, 2017, 07:20:49 PM
QuoteI see a clear distinction between city people and country folks. City people tend to be on a certain side of politics where government is thought of as the center of their lives. The Gov't provides help, answers, support and shelter. They only have to wait until the Gov't gets around to their area to start helping. That could take awhile. In the meantime, the country folks are busy helping themselves and their neighbors with food and shelter moments after the disruption. They are often on the opposite side of politics as the city people because they view Government as an obstruction to their lives, not an enhancement of it.
It's hard to grow your own crops and keep a store of survival supplies when you live in an 800 sq/ft apartment on the 4th floor in a concrete city without a car. (And this is not a description of an extreme poor ghetto living situation in many cities. Lots of middle-class people with real jobs are paying thousands of dollars per month for tiny apartments like that.)
Those dense prosperous coastal cities also tend to be paying a much bigger share of the govt's yearly taxes too. Some states are effectively carrying others. If the rural states seceded from the big-city coastal states they would be much poorer when the smoke cleared.
My State (Washington) kind of relates to your post. We really should be East and West Washington. The state is extremely polarized politically. Although more taxes are generated from the Seattle area, most of those dollars stay there. The east side is taxed at the same inflated rates as the west, yet little of it benefits us rural folks. All the dollars 'required' for the west side rarely solve any of their issues. Most people on the east side would probably see little difference if we were cut off from the west. For what it's worth; I used to live in Hawaii and had to adjust to the million dollar 800 sq' condo life. No thanks! I'll take the country any day.........
QuoteAlthough more taxes are generated from the Seattle area, most of those dollars stay there. The east side is taxed at the same inflated rates as the west, yet little of it benefits us rural folks.
This is one of those fables that never dies. The facts, if you choose to believe them, is that in your State it is the City folk who are paying your Country bills: "People in King County contribute nearly 42 percent of the state's tax revenues, yet receive only 25 percent of the money spent from Washington's general fund budget". There's much more if you'd care to read:
Source:
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/King-Co-pays-for-the-rest-of-the-state-is-that-969099.php
"The five counties getting the biggest bang out of their tax bucks were Whitman County, which paid $52.3 million in state taxes in 2007 but got $252 million back, for a ratio of 4.82. Whitman, in the southeastern part of the state, is home to Washington State University. Next is Thurston County, home to the state capital, with an expenses to revenue ratio of 3.17, then Lincoln County (2.54), Ferry (2.40) and Garfield (2.25). Lincoln, Ferry and Garfield are all small counties in Eastern Washington.
No county in Eastern Washington pays more in state general fund taxes than it receives back in expenditures. In the more populous western part of the state, seven counties contribute more than they get in return (Island, Jefferson, King San Juan, Skagit, Snohomish and Whatcom)."
You're welcome you ungrateful bumpkins! :nana:
Quote from: birdsandbees on April 10, 2017, 07:43:39 PM
Hell, sometimes your girls just want to carve pumpkins.. :icon_smile_big:
Sure keeps the boys guessing... :lol:
Those girls have been raised right and are KEEPERS! :yesnod:
...just finished reloading another 100 rounds out here in the woods on our 5 acres.
but can get to a small town in around 10 minutes in most any direction, when desired.
also lots of fish bearing lakes in the vicinity.
these days when I have to go thru Chicago or Detroit I kinda get the heebie-jeebies.
did my time there for too many moons. retired to the "Up North" 9 yrs ago and have never looked back.
Quote from: RallyeMike on April 10, 2017, 08:40:47 PM
QuoteAlthough more taxes are generated from the Seattle area, most of those dollars stay there. The east side is taxed at the same inflated rates as the west, yet little of it benefits us rural folks.
This is one of those fables that never dies. The facts, if you choose to believe them, is that in your State it is the City folk who are paying your Country bills: "People in King County contribute nearly 42 percent of the state's tax revenues, yet receive only 25 percent of the money spent from Washington's general fund budget". There's much more if you'd care to read:
Source:
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/King-Co-pays-for-the-rest-of-the-state-is-that-969099.php
"The five counties getting the biggest bang out of their tax bucks were Whitman County, which paid $52.3 million in state taxes in 2007 but got $252 million back, for a ratio of 4.82. Whitman, in the southeastern part of the state, is home to Washington State University. Next is Thurston County, home to the state capital, with an expenses to revenue ratio of 3.17, then Lincoln County (2.54), Ferry (2.40) and Garfield (2.25). Lincoln, Ferry and Garfield are all small counties in Eastern Washington.
No county in Eastern Washington pays more in state general fund taxes than it receives back in expenditures. In the more populous western part of the state, seven counties contribute more than they get in return (Island, Jefferson, King San Juan, Skagit, Snohomish and Whatcom)."
You're welcome you ungrateful bumpkins! :nana:
Oh shush Mike! LOL.... Probably a lot of truth in your link. My point originally was how unprepared most city folks are to deal with a real life emergency. As far as tax dollar distribution goes, it is still the west side liberal policies that strongly influence how the funds for us "bumpkins" is spent. So what if you west side folks generate more tax dollars, it doesn't seem to have changed what the original topic addressed.
Country or city, life/survival skills erode each generation. An example that sticks in my mind; The new construction house next door did not have an a/c condenser installed for the first month or so when the neighbors moved in. That was ten years ago, they were in thier high mid 40's. They did not know how to live without air conditioning! That's no suprise for gen-x or a millennial. But for boomers?
As for a breakdown in civilazation, if it's short term ammo will help. If it's long term and you're not between the age of 18 and 35, you only need one bullet,,, for yourself. And all those deer? In 90 days they will be as scarce as white unicorns. (Especially those CORN FED Ohio deer).
At least global warming will stop. :smilielol:
Grew up in the city. Got tired of being told what color to paint my front door and what tree's I could cut down. Country boy the last 12 years. More room for a big garage. :2thumbs:
Post Deleted....I decided my post was too political........! Will just sit back and laugh at this thread!!! And for the record....country boy born and bred!
Quote from: Troy on April 10, 2017, 10:36:27 AM
There's a lot to it. I have several groups of friends from different areas and sometimes it is astounding how little they know about each others' lifestyles. In general though, regardless of city or country living, the skills to take care of yourself in an emergency (or otherwise) just aren't being taught any more. Not to mention the overwhelming reliance on technology. Once the batteries die it's chaos.
Troy
:iagree:
I'm just about as much in the country as I can get, hell I even live on a dirt road. After years with the Fire department there is no shortage of stupid out here vs in the city (lived there too in the past). Troy hit the nail on the head though, they just don't teach the stuff. Any of it. Used to be they liked kids that have diverse (well rounded) backgrounds for college. Not so much now, though it is changing. When I was young - 2 years of your schooling you took a solid course load in Shop and Home Economics. Not anymore... :icon_smile_dissapprove:
I'm trying to teach my kids to be able to think ahead and actively when there is a need. Mostly, its just to be resourceful. It's amazing how much is sitting right in front of them and they still ask for help. :slap:
Quote from: alfaitalia on April 11, 2017, 02:13:06 AM
Post Deleted....I decided my post was too political........! Will just sit back and laugh at this thread!!! And for the record....country boy born and bred!
:cheers: It's the same guys stirring the same pot of stereotypes by the 8th post just about every time. It's humorous.
Quote from: birdsandbees on April 10, 2017, 07:43:39 PM
Hell, sometimes your girls just want to carve pumpkins.. :icon_smile_big:
Sure keeps the boys guessing... :lol:
:smilielol: :smilielol: :smilielol: :lol: :lol: :lol:...Our kids would get along great together! :2thumbs:
Really wonder whether we're not in a Kali Yuga. I do know that every "civilization" has failed, and...How the ** do you not remember how you built a pyramid? Traveled lots after bein Chicago born n bred, and two things kinda stuck w/ me. Money was what made people stupid/ignorant when I compared a region's demographics--in Mexico, if you didn't have Spanish descent and city money, you were dirt, even tho your ancestry went back thousands of years. And in CR, the biggest crabs had the sweetest spreads. Point bein that cities/civilizations seem to make people dumb or narrow, along w/ all the other psychological deficits they create a la Freud's "Civilization and its Discontents." But it's hard to understand how so many massive stars went nova just to create an American suburb full of coddled, hateful dimwits, that this "prosperity" only functions to make people "smaller." If there's any sense in any of this I'd like to know. :brickwall: There's not any sense in it, of course, just a running joke if you're willing, and Rutgers payin Snookie $32k to speak. But cities don't get to have all the fun...after maybe 12k years of farming, we can still create dust bowls better than anyone.
QuoteOh shush Mike! LOL.... Probably a lot of truth in your link. My point originally was how unprepared most city folks are to deal with a real life emergency. As far as tax dollar distribution goes, it is still the west side liberal policies that strongly influence how the funds for us "bumpkins" is spent. So what if you west side folks generate more tax dollars, it doesn't seem to have changed what the original topic addressed.
Once thing that will never change is country folks complaining about city-slickers, and city folks complaining about country bumpkins.
I'm 2-3 years away from heartily adopting your country point of view. :lol:
Quote from: Ponch ® on April 10, 2017, 03:17:43 PM
What are you gonna feed those chickens? Any grain you may have stored will only last you so long and at some point you may want to eat that grain yoursef.
Let an old country boy give just a little education to the city boy...
You can use grain seeds year after year after year as long as they are open-pollinated, or "heirloom" as it's sometimes called. Hybrid seeds will not grow right a second year if they grow at all. You just choose your seeds from say 100 or more different ears spread out across the field. Just search for something like "Using corn seed for next year's planting" or something like that... You'll find out more about the subject than you want to know...but I've probably already told you that much :rofl:
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on April 10, 2017, 07:20:49 PM
Some states are effectively carrying others. If the rural states seceded from the big-city coastal states they would be much poorer when the smoke cleared.
Poorer? I highly doubt it but for the sake of argument I'll say it's possible... realistically though in a situation where there was no power for weeks on end like has been mentioned in this thread, our food supply (us rural farmers anyway) would still be ongoing for a really long time after your local Walmart Super Center runs out of groceries.... And if the rural states stopped sending our food all across the country, all that big-city money probably won't taste too good... even with some Sweet Baby Ray's ;)
Yep, that's why there's a red, white, & blue sticker back of my tractor seat that says: "Farmers feed you 3 times a day" :slap:
I'd rather hang out with Bo Duke than some city guy.
QuotePoorer? I highly doubt it but for the sake of argument I'll say it's possible... realistically though in a situation where there was no power for weeks on end like has been mentioned in this thread, our food supply (us rural farmers anyway) would still be ongoing for a really long time after your local Walmart Super Center runs out of groceries.... And if the rural states stopped sending our food all across the country, all that big-city money probably won't taste too good... even with some Sweet Baby Ray's Wink
The rural states would come out poorer on the whole. It was true in 1860 and it's still true.
I don't see it as a contest. People use the different kinds of land & cities for what they are suited to. Some industries make more money-per-square-mile than others. Big deal. The urban states make more money but you can't eat money.
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on April 14, 2017, 09:02:06 PM
[Big deal. The urban states make more money but you can't eat money.
I think that was what I was saying... I truly believe that the farming community is in a way better situation than the city community in the scenario depicted in this thread.
Mmm . . maybe, maybe not. Country folk might survive better in a short-term TSHTF situation, but I'm not convinced about the longer term.
Look at times when a society starts to crumble in other places around the world. Being wealthy/powerful usually leaves you better off than any amount of being prepared or self-sufficient. Reality has a way of spoiling the 'prepper' fantasies.
A 2005 study from Rutgers University theorized that the pre-1492 native population of the Americas are the descendants of only 70 individuals who crossed the land bridge between Asia and North America. Gimme at least 1 Siberian.
Why are country people so infatuated with when stuff goes wrong?
I live in Alabama, and frequently hear country boys say "if SHTF, I can take care of myself!".
It's like country boys LOVE the idea of everything going to hell, and finally getting to live out a wild west/walking dead fantasy.
To me it comes off as a way to try to boost ones confidence, or try to make up for some insecurities elsewhere.
Like, "Gee, Phil over there sure is too smart with all his book-learnin'. And his degree. And his computer. And his good payin' job. I bet if the world ended tomorrow, he wouldn't know what to do, and then I'D be the smart one for a change!..."
I would rather choose to live where people are working to make a better future, instead of planning on just surviving and enjoying watching "stupid city people" suffer and get their "come uppin's" when it all goes wrong.
So with that said, I can't WAIT to leave Alabama.
Quote from: alfaitalia on April 11, 2017, 02:13:06 AM
Post Deleted....I decided my post was too political........! Will just sit back and laugh at this thread!!! And for the record....country boy born and bred!
Not all hardships are apocalyptic.
I seem to remember an event that impacted Britain a few decades back,called World War Two. Thanks to the U boats, and to the needs of the military, there wasnt enough food to go around to keep everyone comfortable. In fact, most things were severely rationed, and extraordinary measures were taken to produce food on every bit of arable land.
Fuel, tires, just about every consumer product was unobtainable. But the people of the time mostly made it, and adapted somehow.
I dont think todays people are made out of tough enough stuff to last under those conditions if it happened today. The cell phone toting idiots of the world would have a mental meltdown and be pretty much useless.
And its bound to happen again, sooner or later. It seems an unfortunate fact that war is the natural condition of humanity, and among nations.
And this just as the weapons of modern war have become far more brutal and devastating, and the people softer, stupider, and generally less able to adapt.
If todays Britons couldnt handle WW2, how much less could they handle anything worse?
Im not picking on Britain. We are in the same boat.
Quote from: JR on April 15, 2017, 07:52:45 PM
Why are country people so infatuated with when stuff goes wrong?
I live in Alabama, and frequently hear country boys say "if SHTF, I can take care of myself!".
It's like country boys LOVE the idea of everything going to hell, and finally getting to live out a wild west/walking dead fantasy.
To me it comes off as a way to try to boost ones confidence, or try to make up for some insecurities elsewhere.
Like, "Gee, Phil over there sure is too smart with all his book-learnin'. And his degree. And his computer. And his good payin' job. I bet if the world ended tomorrow, he wouldn't know what to do, and then I'D be the smart one for a change!..."
I would rather choose to live where people are working to make a better future, instead of planning on just surviving and enjoying watching "stupid city people" suffer and get their "come uppin's" when it all goes wrong.
So with that said, I can't WAIT to leave Alabama.
I think you're confusing self confidence and common sense with an inferiority complex. This is exactly why country people have a problem with city people, because of their superiority attitude. When in fact there isn't any justification for that attitude due to self evident practical reasoning. :slap:
That response is just saying you think my reasoning is wrong, it didn't answer my question.
Besides, "superiority attitude"? This whole thread is a circle jerk of country boys looking down on dem' poor, stupid city folk. "Poor Tom that lives in the city can't gut a deer or reload ammo, he's so duuuuummmmbbbb....".
I would take a second look at which side seems to have the ego and "superiority attitude" here.
I thinks it's kind of interesting hearing both sides of "City people vs County people" debate. Here's my experience on this matter, I grew up in a farm/ranch community where cowboy, rodeo, county boy was the culture and I would have been classified as a "city slicker" and as far as the people having the "attitude" was alot of the county folk and cowboys, alot of them looked down on you because you weren't "tuff" like them, and alot of them acted like they were just flat out superior to you. I dealt with alot of people over the years when I was a partsmen at an auto parts store and alot of the older farmer/rancher guys were generally pretty cool to deal with its just when you started dealing with alot of the younger ones that could make your day suck as far as dealing with the public! I no longer live there and don't have to deal with the PUBLIC!!!!
A funny story about dealing with a country cowboy out at my cousins branding (they were cool cousins, they wore baseball caps, rode motorcycles, they had hot rods and their pickup trucks didn't define them) I used to always go out and help out along with several of my city slicker cousins, me and my cousins would wrestle the calves and we would all take breaks once in a while and grab a soda, or water and just chill for a minute and this cowboy that was roping calves came over to me and got in my face and said I hadn't worked hard enough to take a break and so I kindly replied that "if I was just riding a horse like he was I wouldn't have to take a break either" and of course he exploded and called me a blankety blank city slicker and came off of his horse and grabbed his son, made a big scene, and he was going to show me how it's all done, well they couldn't get calf down and of course the calf was hell bent on running all over with the rope attached and trying to clothesline everbody till the roper finally let the rope go, needless to say he made a complete a$$ out of himself while everbody watched, it was kind of comical!!!
A lot of the "country people"of today are just city transplants who have a little money, and they can be obnoxious, just as you described.
Those monied outsiders arent really country people at all. The Floridiots are probably the worst. Californians probably would be if they were here in large numbers, but here in the South, its the Floridians who are the creeps who invade, sort of like Kudzu.
The traditional "country people" of yesterday are largely gone. They believed in God and family,and had a little back bone. They were willing to make sacrifices for the good of the family. But its largely not like that anymore.
Todays country people are a wreck and ruin compared to their ancestors. Starting with the baby boomers, they sold off the family land just as soon as they inherited it, and wasted the money on the stupidest old stuff you could imagine. They wanted the image of being a big shot for a little while.
They didnt care that they had cut of the following generations from the land, and scattered and weakened the generations to come. Family values meant nothing to them. They went on cruises , made really stupid investments in markets they didnt understand or take the time to investigate for themselves (just for the optics of it) and lived large for a while, till the money was gone,which didnt take long. They only thought about themselves, and a short term, quick pop of cash. Screw everybody else.
And they sold out the land to the Floridians, who came into the small towns with the attitude of taking over the local government and making everywhere a politically correct hell hole, just like Florida and California.
So, the rural South is largely overrun by the scum of the earth from outside, taking over from the scum of the earth locals.
So, I dont have much hope for the future of the "country people", as they are now. So I have decided to just enjoy my old Mopar (which seems to upset the status quo scummy people), and just be a rebel against conformity. No zippy rice burners or Pee Wee Herman sissy cars for me.
Thats one thing I like about the old Mopars. They seem to project a sense of rebellion against the plastic people. But hey, wasnt that the whole point of them, all along ?
Quote from: JR on April 15, 2017, 07:52:45 PM
Why are country people so infatuated with when stuff goes wrong?
I live in Alabama, and frequently hear country boys say "if SHTF, I can take care of myself!".
It's like country boys LOVE the idea of everything going to hell, and finally getting to live out a wild west/walking dead fantasy.
To me it comes off as a way to try to boost ones confidence, or try to make up for some insecurities elsewhere.
Like, "Gee, Phil over there sure is too smart with all his book-learnin'. And his degree. And his computer. And his good payin' job. I bet if the world ended tomorrow, he wouldn't know what to do, and then I'D be the smart one for a change!..."
I would rather choose to live where people are working to make a better future, instead of planning on just surviving and enjoying watching "stupid city people" suffer and get their "come uppin's" when it all goes wrong.
So with that said, I can't WAIT to leave Alabama.
In our 2.5 million year "development" cooperation was the norm, and we've had to be disabused of the notion that Cro-Magnon killed off Neanderthals--any gingers out there? If I wanna know whether anyone is worth a horse's a** I ask myself whether I'd let them walk my dog. Degrees and manure spreaders have nuthin to do with it. Here's what we're capable of, and what people have been doin throughout most of human history
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se_fYZRbyJs
Peace
(Oh, I can't wait to be called a hippie or a commie)
OK, I'll call you a hippie or a commie. :smilielol:
Quote from: XH29N0G on April 16, 2017, 08:44:14 AM
OK, I'll call you a hippie or a commie. :smilielol:
Thank Yo!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0p6VtgxbH0
BTW, just so y'all don't think I can't parse with the rest, I'd let Kern Dog walk my dog, but only the male. :scratchchin:
I'd let Kern Dog shoot the coy dogs in the woods behind my place! :smilielol: :shruggy: :lol:
I actually am a decent shot. I could have been a sniper in the Army but I do not have the patience or the bladder to sit for 3 days waiting for 1 shot !
OK, Bottom line = CANNIBALISM :eek2:
Who is more nutritious?
"Carry on"... :popcrn:
Are we headed next to a discussion of free range/organic/hormone-free?
No, no, no.......not at all. There's no point opening that door. It's old news, everyone I know in the country stopped eating GMO foods and drinking hormone milk years ago. There's no reason to point out the direct link between GMO foods and the dramatic increase in learning and behavioral disorders as well as various health problems. Especially now that the city people are catching up thanks to the issue being raised by small farmers against the government subsidized corporate farms.
Ah, GEEZ!!! Now look what you made me do! :shruggy:
Quote from: XH29N0G on April 17, 2017, 06:40:34 AM
Are we headed next to a discussion of free range/organic/hormone-free?
Probably not, tho suicide seeds and GRUT get a bad rap. Itsa
Modest Proposal, but much of our difficulty is over-population, and (by some estimates) the 23k people who starve every day is a start. And for our dystopic survivors (the ones w/o bunkers and guns), there's always the WB and IMF--Call it Democracy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68zccrskOqQ
Rock on :nana:
Yes, I forgot about that for an instant. I saw an article about the level of starvation and it is a problem. Could be for us too with continued food production, soil, and water. I saw a map through the decades of the amount of topsoil across the US and into Canada in a talk a few years ago and it was very sobering to realize that it, and food production are going to be big issues facing us. Was told last night that the large oaks we have in my area are all but gone in 10-20 years because it just isn't wet enough and there are other diseases they are battling. I have been watching them die in my yard over the past 20 and see the signs on many of the trees I presently have.
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on April 15, 2017, 03:40:04 PM
Country folk might survive better in a short-term TSHTF situation, but I'm not convinced about the longer term.
I am. Reason I say this is in a long term SHTF situation, money will be useless because nobody will have anything for sale. People can do without anything with the exception of food and maybe medical, and the country folk are way better prepared in the food area. For instance, What percentage of city folk know how to keep meat and vegetables long term and not have to worry about freezing it, Let alone have an almost never ending supply of it?
Again, what's with the SHTF fetish country people have?
In an apocalypse situation, were ALL dead no matter what.
Don't believe me, look up the location of every nuclear power plant in the u.s.
Here's a map of every one in the U.S., And the affected range in the event of a worldwide total meltdown.
(http://www.nukepills.com/images/US-Reactor-Map-anim.gif)
Now, unless you live in those desolate areas in the Midwest, were ALL dead.
Best case, you can hold out for a while in those mountains before you eventually eat a radioactive deer. Or wander into an affected area and come down with radiation poisoning.
If you live in the Eastern half of the U.S., you'll probably neve make it out alive, regardless of how many bullets you have, or how many radioactive animals you catch and eat.
Now, if you're talking about a WW3 situation, what in the sam blue hell are you going to do differently than someone living in a city? Sure the city will likely be a target over rural America
Towns, but so what? If you end up drafted to war, you're in the trenches right along side the city boy that got drafted. So your stockpiles, and your "living off the grid" lifestyle means precisely, jack s-#&.
So again, why the constant hard on for SHTF? I can only assume there's so much discussion of it from country people because they want it so bad.
Quote from: XH29N0G on April 17, 2017, 02:06:52 PM
Yes, I forgot about that for an instant. I saw an article about the level of starvation and it is a problem. Could be for us too with continued food production, soil, and water. I saw a map through the decades of the amount of topsoil across the US and into Canada in a talk a few years ago and it was very sobering to realize that it, and food production are going to be big issues facing us. Was told last night that the large oaks we have in my area are all but gone in 10-20 years because it just isn't wet enough and there are other diseases they are battling. I have been watching them die in my yard over the past 20 and see the signs on many of the trees I presently have.
And millions of acres of very fertile farmland in the country going to waste, not growing anything but sage brush and weeds, all because of corrupt government policy.
There once were things called small farms, where small farms grew a great deal of food. It was our mainstay of food production in WW2, and it was what America was founded on, right from the start. But the clowns in high places didnt like that set up.
The small farms were competition to the large, govt subsidized large agro farms, which sent lobbyist to Washington to bribe the politicians.
Soo...the govt started a systematic program to basically outlaw the small farmer, take away the market for our goods, regulate us out of business, and do everything anything and everything to wipe out the small guys. It didnt go unnoticed that the small farm family was teaching traditional values to the kids, which was another incentive for the clowns in power to try very hard to break down the small farming as an institution.
They erased out the market for the small farmers.We could grow, but had no where to sell. Influence peddling, selective subsidies and tax and financial regulations, and every other fabricated, unbalance and unfair sort of regulation took away the buyers. It is a nightmare of red tape, dirty deals, and abuse of power.
And then they went into overdrive with more job exporting programs such as Nafta, so the importation of food from Mexico goes on, subsidized by the people they are putting out of business. Small farmers, who have no market now, had also to compete with subsidized imported food. Local store chains are actually not allowed to buy local. They must buy from Mexico or face the wrath of the ABC government agencies, who would come down on them like a ton of lead. Store managers have told me this.
And the government also enacted wave after wave of "Food Safety" laws to heap more mountains of red tape, regulation, and unnecessarily expensive tests on the small farmers, in triplicate. By sheer coincidence, the large agrofarms were immune to the very same regulations and tests.
Small farmers that rase live stock are required to file tests on every animal (if they can find a market). These tests may cost in the thousands of dollars per animal.Large agro companies are, amazingly, not required to file.They are immune to the tests and regulations. They only apply to the small farmer.
Every conceivable excuse has been put forward to justify these dirty rotten deeds. Everything from "Food Safety", to "Inevitable Globalization", to Climate Change", etc etc blah blah blah. People who dont know better might actually believe them. But they are all false.
And all the while, thousands of people starve to death, while most of the farmland in America goes to waste, growing nothing, just because it is in the hands of small time owners.
The problem of insufficient food production is an artificial one, and would go quickly away, if it were not for unfair and corrupt government policy.
You.....hit the nail right on the head! :2thumbs: as well the destruction of the small farm really destroyed the gentle society we used to have. My Grandparents 68 acre farm on my Dads side was literally like stepping back into the 1930's, hand pumped water, outhouse and all ! I am just old enough to remember when the mom & pop grocery stores bought locally. Five and dime stores, locally owned and run movie theaters, etc. What the heck my Grandpa on my Ma's side used to drive his Rambler over to the local egg farm to buy eggs, never from the grocery store. I never knew what a shopping mall was until I was 12 and one was built in the village nearby.
Now for fun we revived a tradition and go on Sunday drives after church looking for small towns that time has passed by. Found a couple where friendly people greet you like you're a good neighbor. Even found two mom and pop stores where you can get an ice cold coke in a glass bottle and sit on the front porch watching the clouds go by. :yesnod:
Yep, they're out there.....but way out in the country! :yesnod:
I'm with you on the small farms, but the soil, water, and climate issues are, unfortunately real as well.
QuoteI am. Reason I say this is in a long term SHTF situation, money will be useless because nobody will have anything for sale. People can do without anything with the exception of food and maybe medical, and the country folk are way better prepared in the food area. For instance, What percentage of city folk know how to keep meat and vegetables long term and not have to worry about freezing it, Let alone have an almost never ending supply of it?
We currently get our food from big machinery & processing & trucking & packaging. Do the people who know how to operate that machinery have the most food supply today? No. The 00.01% does, while having no practical skills at all.
Money & trade isn't going away no matter what happens. If fiat paper US dollars go up in smoke then people will trade other stuff for a while until some new currency emerges.
If only the rural folk have adequate food supplies then the super-rich will just take it by force. Get mercenaries to kill the rural people, or just enslave them on their own land. Some rural folk would put up a fight with kevlar vests & AR-15s but it won't hold the bad guys off for long. The bad guys could waste 2/3rds of the population in the process of taking control and still have plenty of slave labor left over.
Well...as far as the water and soil issues, our water is about as pure as it gets! 180' well pulling off an underground aquifer the size of Lake Ontario. I've had it tested several times and it is 100% free of pollutants of any kind. So what if the power goes out! I can windmill or hand pump it out. :yesnod:
So how's your water city people? Do you like drinking recycled waste water with all its pharmaceuticals in it from other people's piss and crap? Not to mention poisons like clorine and flouride. Your power goes out and you're up the creek without a paddle, no water at all once your bottled "spring" water (a joke in itself) runs out in a day or two.
Soil problems? Farmers are the ultimate care takers of the soil! Their livelyhood depends on it. Farm soil is actually richer and in better condition than it is naturally. The people here that want to blame farmers for destroying the environment are just plain ignorant of the facts and are puking up the leftist BS they're being spoon fed by pencil pusher community organizer types that frankly don't know what the hell they're talking about. :brickwall:
Get off your rearend and go visit a farm first hand if you want the truth, or are you afraid to get dirt under your manicured nails? :slap:
And don't be surprised at all if the farmer hands you a shovel or gives you a chore to do while you ask your questions. Most farmers are in a 12-16 hour workday 7 days a week and if you're going to take up his time he'll want some of yours in return. :yesnod:
Quote from: XH29N0G on April 18, 2017, 01:29:20 AM
I'm with you on the small farms, but the soil, water, and climate issues are, unfortunately real as well.
Check w/ the WHO but Chomsky recently said 1 person per second is being dislocated due to climate change fallout, more than are being moved by bombs or civil wars and such. Itsa big number, and if'n there's anything to it, climate change won't favor the farmers either (but maybe if you're a rancher named Bundy you'll last a month longer?). Will we end by fire or ice? Ice is nice...
Quote from: cooldude on April 17, 2017, 09:46:14 PM
Quote from: XH29N0G on April 17, 2017, 02:06:52 PM
Yes, I forgot about that for an instant. I saw an article about the level of starvation and it is a problem. Could be for us too with continued food production, soil, and water. I saw a map through the decades of the amount of topsoil across the US and into Canada in a talk a few years ago and it was very sobering to realize that it, and food production are going to be big issues facing us. Was told last night that the large oaks we have in my area are all but gone in 10-20 years because it just isn't wet enough and there are other diseases they are battling. I have been watching them die in my yard over the past 20 and see the signs on many of the trees I presently have.
And millions of acres of very fertile farmland in the country going to waste, not growing anything but sage brush and weeds, all because of corrupt government policy.
There once were things called small farms, where small farms grew a great deal of food. It was our mainstay of food production in WW2, and it was what America was founded on, right from the start. But the clowns in high places didnt like that set up.
The small farms were competition to the large, govt subsidized large agro farms, which sent lobbyist to Washington to bribe the politicians.
Soo...the govt started a systematic program to basically outlaw the small farmer, take away the market for our goods, regulate us out of business, and do everything anything and everything to wipe out the small guys. It didnt go unnoticed that the small farm family was teaching traditional values to the kids, which was another incentive for the clowns in power to try very hard to break down the small farming as an institution.
They erased out the market for the small farmers.We could grow, but had no where to sell. Influence peddling, selective subsidies and tax and financial regulations, and every other fabricated, unbalance and unfair sort of regulation took away the buyers. It is a nightmare of red tape, dirty deals, and abuse of power.
And then they went into overdrive with more job exporting programs such as Nafta, so the importation of food from Mexico goes on, subsidized by the people they are putting out of business. Small farmers, who have no market now, had also to compete with subsidized imported food. Local store chains are actually not allowed to buy local. They must buy from Mexico or face the wrath of the ABC government agencies, who would come down on them like a ton of lead. Store managers have told me this.
And the government also enacted wave after wave of "Food Safety" laws to heap more mountains of red tape, regulation, and unnecessarily expensive tests on the small farmers, in triplicate. By sheer coincidence, the large agrofarms were immune to the very same regulations and tests.
Small farmers that rase live stock are required to file tests on every animal (if they can find a market). These tests may cost in the thousands of dollars per animal.Large agro companies are, amazingly, not required to file.They are immune to the tests and regulations. They only apply to the small farmer.
Every conceivable excuse has been put forward to justify these dirty rotten deeds. Everything from "Food Safety", to "Inevitable Globalization", to Climate Change", etc etc blah blah blah. People who dont know better might actually believe them. But they are all false.
And all the while, thousands of people starve to death, while most of the farmland in America goes to waste, growing nothing, just because it is in the hands of small time owners.
The problem of insufficient food production is an artificial one, and would go quickly away, if it were not for unfair and corrupt government policy.
So why cant the people that own those small farms simply live their own land if they can grow their own food and whatnot? No need to sell anything if theyre self sufficient. After all, as Ive learned in this thread, all one needs is water, a few animals, and guns to survive.
Agenda driven statistics are NOT a reliable source of information and WHO is one of the biggest quack organizations there is. Climate change? It's a factor of cyclical routine with the earth. After all, so called "global warming" was proven to be a hoax perpetrated by the very people who claimed it to be truth after their emails were made public. Why? Money! Plain and simple. How many people and companies shelled out money to buy "carbon credits" or spent money to decrease their "carbon footprint". :shruggy:
Goofy Al Gore had all the libtards going for quite a while with his global warming hoax. It's a special kind of stupid that blindly follows the advice of someone whose lifestyle contradicts the very lifestyle changes he preaches to his minions of blind sheep to follow to "reduce their carbon footprint" meanwhile he laughs all the way to the bank. :brickwall:
So why cant the people that own those small farms simply live their own land if they can grow their own food and whatnot? No need to sell anything if theyre self sufficient. After all, as Ive learned in this thread, all one needs is water, a few animals, and guns to survive.
[/quote]
Taxes for one reason, you don't pay them and they seize your property. Otherwise we wouldn't need to sell anything to anybody. :shruggy:
Now in NYS our retard politicians and governor have passed "Free college tuition" which of course isn't free. Somebody has to pay it. So up go our taxes again. All this is is Socialism. Nothing like a good swift kick in the balls! :eek2:
Thought I'd inject some good news/bad news, depending. A judge finally ruled that CA can require Monsanto to label Roundup with a cancer warning. Yay? Or, in the alternative, let's hope Monsanto ties it up in the appeal process long enough for social Darwinism to cull the unfit f/ our midst--you know, the kids who are the most susceptible. :slap: Make Murka great again! Now somebody go get those bleedin heart liberals who are suing the EPA for not allowing Roundup to be banned. The business of America is business--don't they know that?
Quote from: 69DAYTONASE on April 18, 2017, 11:55:37 AM
Taxes for one reason, you don't pay them and they seize your property. Otherwise we wouldn't need to sell anything to anybody. :shruggy:
Now in NYS our retard politicians and governor have passed "Free college tuition" which of course isn't free. Somebody has to pay it. So up go our taxes again. All this is is Socialism. Nothing like a good swift kick in the balls! :eek2:
MOABs and weekends in Mar-A-Lago aint cheap either, so we all gotta write and mail checks to Uncle Sam today.
Quote from: Ponch ® on April 18, 2017, 01:15:29 PM
Quote from: 69DAYTONASE on April 18, 2017, 11:55:37 AM
Taxes for one reason, you don't pay them and they seize your property. Otherwise we wouldn't need to sell anything to anybody. :shruggy:
Now in NYS our retard politicians and governor have passed "Free college tuition" which of course isn't free. Somebody has to pay it. So up go our taxes again. All this is is Socialism. Nothing like a good swift kick in the balls! :eek2:
MOABs and weekends in Mar-A-Lago aint cheap either, so we all gotta write and mail checks to Uncle Sam today.
LOL. You think we're not payin for illiteracy right now? Oh that's rich.
QuoteClimate change? It's a factor of cyclical routine with the earth. After all, so called "global warming" was proven to be a hoax perpetrated by the very people who claimed it to be truth after their emails were made public.
There is plenty of bullshit being thrown around on both sides of that debate.
It's just as much of a "cyclical process" when the midwest & rust belt ends up with no industries & jobs and crumbling infrastructure after a few generations of booming wealth. People defend a cyclical process a lot more when it's going their way.
Quote from: Laowho on April 18, 2017, 01:19:12 PM
Quote from: Ponch ® on April 18, 2017, 01:15:29 PM
Quote from: 69DAYTONASE on April 18, 2017, 11:55:37 AM
Taxes for one reason, you don't pay them and they seize your property. Otherwise we wouldn't need to sell anything to anybody. :shruggy:
Now in NYS our retard politicians and governor have passed "Free college tuition" which of course isn't free. Somebody has to pay it. So up go our taxes again. All this is is Socialism. Nothing like a good swift kick in the balls! :eek2:
MOABs and weekends in Mar-A-Lago aint cheap either, so we all gotta write and mail checks to Uncle Sam today.
LOL. You think you're not payin for illiteracy right now? Oh that's rich.
Illiteracy costs me
something alright (probably a few brain cells). Especially whenever I read certain posts here, coincidentally or not, often by good self sufficient country folk.
Quote from: JR on April 17, 2017, 05:05:04 PM
(http://www.nukepills.com/images/US-Reactor-Map-anim.gif)
Now, unless you live in those desolate areas in the Midwest, were ALL dead.
Best case, you can hold out for a while in those mountains before you eventually eat a radioactive deer. Or wander into an affected area and come down with radiation poisoning.
.....
Now, if you're talking about a WW3 situation, what in the sam blue hell are you going to do differently than someone living in a city? Sure the city will likely be a target over rural America
Towns, but so what? If you end up drafted to war, you're in the trenches right along side the city boy that got drafted. So your stockpiles, and your "living off the grid" lifestyle means precisely, jack s-#&.
I actually live in one of those "desolated areas" listed on the map and my old hometown is not within one of the nuclear circles either. If SHTF, I already have a nice supply of canned goods and bottled water in separate locations that can last me (and family members) at least a few more months. I learned from my rural grandparents who lived through the great depression to always build a descent pantry supply because you never know what might happen later on. I sometimes wish more people would have done the same, but alas it is their life to live and lose...
As for being drafted into a WWIII situation, more than likely I would be placed into weapons production/development, rather than actually using one on a battlefield....
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on April 18, 2017, 01:23:30 PM
QuoteClimate change? It's a factor of cyclical routine with the earth. After all, so called "global warming" was proven to be a hoax perpetrated by the very people who claimed it to be truth after their emails were made public.
There is plenty of bullshit being thrown around on both sides of that debate.
It's just as much of a "cyclical process" when the midwest & rust belt ends up with no industries & jobs and crumbling infrastructure after a few generations of booming wealth. People defend a cyclical process a lot more when it's going their way.
Like the drought last summer? All part of the tides of nature. Who's complaining anyway, there's a big difference between thinking you know truth and actually knowing what the truth is after all. :yesnod:
Look at every region that has been decimated of industry and a neglected infrastructure and without exception you will find Leftard liberal socialist politics the cause of it. High taxes are a great way to empty out a state of industry and people.
Remember "shovel ready jobs" the only shoveling was the BS by that one. :slap:
What's that old saying? "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make 'em drink." Lefties should know the horse will never drink if you don't turn 'em around so their heads facing the water. :shruggy:
Quote from: 69DAYTONASE on April 18, 2017, 02:28:14 PM
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on April 18, 2017, 01:23:30 PM
QuoteClimate change? It's a factor of cyclical routine with the earth. After all, so called "global warming" was proven to be a hoax perpetrated by the very people who claimed it to be truth after their emails were made public.
There is plenty of bullshit being thrown around on both sides of that debate.
It's just as much of a "cyclical process" when the midwest & rust belt ends up with no industries & jobs and crumbling infrastructure after a few generations of booming wealth. People defend a cyclical process a lot more when it's going their way.
Like the drought last summer? All part of the tides of nature. Who's complaining anyway, there's a big difference between thinking you know truth and actually knowing what the truth is after all. :yesnod:
Look at every region that has been decimated of industry and a neglected infrastructure and without exception you will find Leftard liberal socialist politics the cause of it. High taxes are a great way to empty out a state of industry and people.
Remember "shovel ready jobs" the only shoveling was the BS by that one. :slap:
What's that old saying? "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make 'em drink." Lefties should know the horse will never drink if you don't turn 'em around so their heads facing the water. :shruggy:
The problem is that the protectionist, anti free market, blame-somebody-for our problems right isnt a much better alternative
What a sad thread this has become. Live the life you want...whether you are country folk or townies. I like living in the country...on the beach in my case...but I can see the attraction of the hustle and bustle of city live and enjoy the odd week in a big city. As for preparing for if the SHTF....well I guess it's ok if it does not take over your life....I'm not aware of anyone doing it in the UK....no guns here of course...thankfully. If its nuclear, unless you never have wind in the USA, it won't matter if you live in one of the little red circles or not..only the time to your death still vary. We had high (but not lethal..of course) levels of radiation in Scotland for ages after the Chernobyl incident and that was several countries away and against the normal prevailing wind. So live your life, enjoy it and don't worry about what might be....whether you are town or country folk!
QuoteLike the drought last summer? All part of the tides of nature. Who's complaining anyway, there's a big difference between thinking you know truth and actually knowing what the truth is after all. yesnod
Look at every region that has been decimated of industry and a neglected infrastructure and without exception you will find Leftard liberal socialist politics the cause of it. High taxes are a great way to empty out a state of industry and people.
Remember "shovel ready jobs" the only shoveling was the BS by that one. slap
What's that old saying? "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make 'em drink." Lefties should know the horse will never drink if you don't turn 'em around so their heads facing the water.
Rural america got jobs that were outsourced from the urban centers. The urban centers got them generations earlier because they had been outsourced from European countries. Etc.
Jobs always make places richer and then eventually move to the next poor place. The process is much older than Democrats and Republicans. This stuff was going on literally thousands of years ago.
This'll be my last post in the thread, but I thought it'd be helpful to try to point out summa the absurdities that we've been conditioned to discourse by. Appreciate everyone's good humor. Ponch, by illiteracy I was tryin to point out that maybe we've never been taught what's actually intelligent. In fact, as a parent I've struggled w/ whether we want our kids to be happy, healthy, thoughtful people, or whether I shoulda trained them to be sharks. Neither is Zinn's People's History collecting dust in the schools. As for the market/capitalism, it's never been "free" the way we've been propagandized to believe, any more than that mass production and consumerism is unquestionably and inevitability a form of security (jobs), so sayin that it's always been thus is only true for a minority sector of the world population, but if that's all you know then that's all there is. As for climate change and other environmental disasters, they're real, whatever our part in it, emails or no. I've been too far down the rabbit hole to know what really goes on on in board rooms and court rooms and legislatures and prisons, and behind it all are people of every stripe, but nowhere in any of it were any of the human ideals we all expect and live by with our own families. No love or concern for people down the line or for people we don't "have to" care about. And unless that changes, or until we at least connect the dots to reveal the hidden connections, the rest of the rhetoric and intellectual groping we're used to spewing is BS. When our caravan got to New Orleans after Katrina we were turned back, as were all the others who wanted to help. Nobody here, nor there, can tell us why that was w/o muttering empty boilerplate excuses. When the kids are grown I hope to leave them a few things (good self-relationship toward themselves mostly) and a decent Charger, and to convince my wife to go with me back to one of the Indian reservations I lived on in Mexico or Costa Rica for a dollar a day, amongst people who don't give a s*** about money or possessions, and who still speak their own language and culture rather than that of the conquerors. First we're goin to Peru to meet the Shipibo. Best of luck to everyone, but like alfaitalia said, what we really want is under our nose, wherever it goes. Remember that when yer sharin a foxhole or bunker. Peace :2thumbs:
Wow, this god exciting, and quick. So 2 things....
Chad, you remind me of someone I knew whose class at Moscow State raised money by making munitions for the Russian police and military.
Climate change is not as much of a debate as we are presenting it. The issue is that scientists talk differently than politicians, lawyers and businessmen. Evaluating degrees of certainty and uncertainty are part of the scientific process and nothing is ever 100% certain, but there is a high level of certainty that we are witnessing change and that this change is produced by our own actions.
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on April 18, 2017, 02:16:58 AM
If only the rural folk have adequate food supplies then the super-rich will just take it by force. Get mercenaries to kill the rural people, or just enslave them on their own land. Some rural folk would put up a fight with kevlar vests & AR-15s but it won't hold the bad guys off for long. The bad guys could waste 2/3rds of the population in the process of taking control and still have plenty of slave labor left over.
IMO That's pretty far fetched simply because there are a hell of a lot more of us than there are mercenaries. Maybe a SHTF scenario is different between your world and mine.
Quote from: XH29N0G on April 18, 2017, 05:48:12 PM
Evaluating degrees of certainty and uncertainty are part of the scientific process and nothing is ever 100% certain, but there is a high level of certainty that we are witnessing change and that this change is produced by our own actions.
We are absolutely witnessing change, but that change has been going on a hell of a lot longer than we have been capable of producing on our own.
I completely agree that the world changes by natural causes. I study those types of deep time changes in the atmosphere and oceans and they are linked to changes in climate through time. I also see a responsibility in making the point that there are changes happening today that are concerning, some of those reflect human activity.
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on April 18, 2017, 02:16:58 AM
QuoteI am. Reason I say this is in a long term SHTF situation, money will be useless because nobody will have anything for sale. People can do without anything with the exception of food and maybe medical, and the country folk are way better prepared in the food area. For instance, What percentage of city folk know how to keep meat and vegetables long term and not have to worry about freezing it, Let alone have an almost never ending supply of it?
We currently get our food from big machinery & processing & trucking & packaging. Do the people who know how to operate that machinery have the most food supply today? No. The 00.01% does, while having no practical skills at all.
Money & trade isn't going away no matter what happens. If fiat paper US dollars go up in smoke then people will trade other stuff for a while until some new currency emerges.
If only the rural folk have adequate food supplies then the super-rich will just take it by force. Get mercenaries to kill the rural people, or just enslave them on their own land. Some rural folk would put up a fight with kevlar vests & AR-15s but it won't hold the bad guys off for long. The bad guys could waste 2/3rds of the population in the process of taking control and still have plenty of slave labor left over.
Your probably right. History is a repeating play, which is rather like a washing machine in its function. Wash, rinse, repeat.
1400 years ago, a lot of the "country People" of todays ancestors were Vikings, who took whatever they could. They settled down and became country farmers in England and Western Europe. They toppled the ruling classes and just took what they wanted.
Then they settled down, and some of them became the new ruling class, the Normans. But wars and marriages and political strife and the levelers movement, and primogeniture (eldest son takes all) and corrupt government, meant that a great many of them came to America as Western Europe became socially unsettled.
(Some couldnt adapt, and just became pirates)
In America, the process of taking what they wanted began all over again, much like the Viking and Norman ancestors did before them. They settled down, and the old families eventually became the country people and old rural families that we think of today.
But now strife, unjust laws, corrupt government, and social engineering and NAFTA and all of that, is unsettling the ancient families once again.
And so, if there is an imbalance today, it simply means that a new rinse cycle is coming.
Wash, rinse, repeat. The ruling classes always think that they are immune to the cycle of history. The lower classes always seem to be oblivious to it. All are simply enslaved by it. Some things never change, and the poor we will have with us always.
As for me, Im just an observer, neutral and somewhat disinterested. No matter what happens, nothing will change the pattern of history until the end of time, whenever that is.
QuoteIMO That's pretty far fetched simply because there are a hell of a lot more of us than there are mercenaries. Maybe a SHTF scenario is different between your world and mine.
I'm just going by what happens all over the world. When TSHTF there is a standard pattern. The most self-sufficient don't win. The most rich + cutthroat do. Armies/govts that act civilized are a luxury of a functioning civilization.
I'm glad we still have the right to own rifles & pistols. But these small arms pose no real threat to the power structure today (which is why we still have them). We would need a fleet of stealth bombers & bunker-busters to make much progress.
QuoteWash, rinse, repeat. The ruling classes always think that they are immune to the cycle of history. The lower classes always seem to be oblivious to it. All are simply enslaved by it. Some things never change, and the poor we will have with us always.
As for me, Im just an observer, neutral and somewhat disinterested. No matter what happens, nothing will change the pattern of history until the end of time, whenever that is.
Yep. That's about it.
Quote from: XH29N0G on April 18, 2017, 05:48:12 PM
Chad, you remind me of someone I knew whose class at Moscow State raised money by making munitions for the Russian police and military.
Well, I am basing what would likely happen in WWIII on previous wars. In WWI, scientists on both sides were used to develop chemical weapons. In WWII, scientists on both sides were used to develop chemical, biological and nuclear weapons. What do you guess scientists would be doing in WWIII (for those that survive)?
Something to consider: In the mid to late 1930s, Germany was far ahead of the rest of the world in nuclear research. However, due to racial/religious persecution by the government, many of their top scientists left the country to work elsewhere (and rightfully so I might add). The Allies directly benefited due to their mistakes.
My late father was a WW2 USAAF veteran and I can tell you for a fact that Germany came very close to having the nuke, it is also a fact that Japan DID have the bomb and tested it. They were literally just a few weeks away from using it which is why we got the jump on using the nuke on them.
Also had the pleasure of meeting and speaking with Gen. Chuck Sweeney in 1995. He is the only person that was on both A-bomb missions. He was on a "mission" tour to set the record straight because the revisionist historians at the Smithsonian set up a display about the A-bombing of Japan and painted us as the bad guys. Gen. Sweeney, along with a group of WW2 vets directly involved, were successful in forcing the Smithsonian to change the display to reflect true history.
Pretty hard to argue with the men that were there! :patriot:
BTW: Gen. Sweeney....was one of the nicest, most humble, friendly guys you could ever meet.
He wrote a book and made a video using his own money to set the record straight about the A-bomb missions. If you can find the video now, it's called: "Wars End" and was distributed by Kinsale Enterprises Inc. The book "Wars End" is on Amazon. :2thumbs:
QuoteMy late father was a WW2 USAAF veteran and I can tell you for a fact that Germany came very close to having the nuke, it is also a fact that Japan DID have the bomb and tested it.
I don't recall evidence that Germany was especially close. They wanted it but they couldn't get it done in time. But yes, has come to light that Japan was closer than we ever thought (and their enriched Uranium probably came from Germany).
The firebombing attacks being done late in the war were arguably just as cruel & destructive as getting nuked, if not worse. But "firebomb" is not the kind of buzzword that "nuclear" is.
There are so many strange statements in this thread. I was going to refute them one by one, but it's hopeless. Conservatives/country people don't want a discussion on various topics, they want an echo chamber with other conservatives regurgitating the same nonsense back.
The conservative/country boy motto ought to be "Screw you, I got mine".
Also, it's peculiar to me that the most anti tax, anti government states in the country have the lowest standards of living, highest rates of teen pregnancy and poverty, and also take the most amount of government handouts/federal aid back. The left leaning states pay more in taxes but take much less federal aid.
https://taxfoundation.org/states-rely-most-federal-aid/
The country boy motto of "screw the government" is pure fantasy.
In reality, life as we know it today is complex and interwoven with cultures, countries, and ideas from all around the world. You can claim you'd live off the land just fine without help, but what happens the first time you come down with pneumonia, or need serious medical care? You'll be right back in the city, seeking help from the best doctors and scientist around.
The country boy motto wouldn't bother me so bad if it didn't celebrate willful ignorance so proudly and bold.
Don't actually know how close either were, but I remember being taught that Germany was pursuing it with a few bad turns that slowed them. My parents made it clear to me as a kid that when you were attacked you did what you had to. Unleashing the bomb had an ethical dilemma with it, but I am of the mind that it had to be done. I am also not against apologies, but faced with the same situation would make the same decision.
Chad: During WWII both of my grandfathers were assigned stateside after signing up and preparing to ship out. One went to the grave with what he did. The other ended up in intelligence. Neither were scientists so it happened to others too. The scientists though, were something else.
And yes, there are fundamental differences between the mindsets of people in the cities and country, but if we put us all in the same area, after a while we would find that we actually aren't that different. The situations are what make the priorities different. I realized that about 15 years ago driving out to family in the Midwest, seeing farmhouses in the distance, and thinking how the lives were different from my city existence and then how I might think if I lived there instead.
Wow! This thread has certainly taken several different paths since I started it. The original post simply stated my belief that country folks were better equipped to sustain themselves longer than their city brethren in the event of a prolonged power outage. Without getting into particular posts, it seems that many here cling to negative stereotypes of both country and city folks. It's really not an us against them thing. At this day and age we all have or have had the ability to go either direction. I've lived the country life for over 25 years and love it. Most of my lifelong friends are city dwellers. I was born and raised in So Cal in a fairly affluent area with great schools. I ran a very successful business in Hawaii for years and still enjoy visiting there. Putting country people and city people in narrow little boxes is the same as the liberal vs conservative comparisons going on today. So just because I have a few guns, grow some veggies, have some fruit trees, freezers, generators and such does not make me some stupid hillbilly. Stupid resides everywhere.......
Quote from: XH29N0G on April 19, 2017, 05:54:39 PM
Don't actually know how close either were, but I remember being taught that Germany was pursuing it with a few bad turns that slowed them. My parents made it clear to me as a kid that when you were attacked you did what you had to. Unleashing the bomb had an ethical dilemma with it, but I am of the mind that it had to be done. I am also not against apologies, but faced with the same situation would make the same decision.
Chad: During WWII both of my grandfathers were assigned stateside after signing up and preparing to ship out. One went to the grave with what he did. The other ended up in intelligence. Neither were scientists so it happened to others too. The scientists though, were something else.
And yes, there are fundamental differences between the mindsets of people in the cities and country, but if we put us all in the same area, after a while we would find that we actually aren't that different. The situations are what make the priorities different. I realized that about 15 years ago driving out to family in the Midwest, seeing farmhouses in the distance, and thinking how the lives were different from my city existence and then how I might think if I lived there instead.
I think Germany was hot on it. But I think us or the Brits blowing up the heavy water facility severely hampered Germany's efforts. Then the clock ran out. I think Mike's correct, Germany shipped the enriched uranium to Japan.
As a side note: My dad (WWII - South Pacific) used to say, "we beat the Soviets to the moon because our Nazi Scientist were smarter than thier Nazi Scientists."
This has been an interesting thread BECAUSE of the turns.
It is a fact that Japan did test a nuke, there is evidence that they actually did 2 tests, the first being a low power bomb. One of the things that I received from Gen. Sweeney was a very limited magazine he was involved in contributing to that shows our Navy personnel dumping centrifuges and other nuclear related manufacturing apparatus into the Pacific Ocean. There is a very detailed account of what was found when our troops went into Japan after the surrender.
We would have been the ones nuked if we didn't nuke them first. This was part of the Axis plan near the end of the war to win it.
How different our world would be had we lost the war!
It is shameful that there are so many people ignorant of the truth in the founding principles of this country that are so willing to get on their knees for the communists/socialists that want to destroy our freedom.
The very philosophy that we fought WW2 over to keep our freedom, people are now accepting being spoon fed by a socialist public school system that has given them a fully propagandized higher lateral ego which is why they cannot accept how wrong they are in their objective reasoning. Narcissism is after all phychological disorder.
^That last paragraph reads like propaganda. Or a conspiracy theory.
It doesn't matter very much in the big scheme of things. Japan, Germany, USA, Russia . . . I don't think anyone besides the USA was ever going to produce more than a couple of nukes before that war ended. Who else had the spare industrial capacity to produce the materials? That was the holdup. Nukes were only going to be a symbolic thing for that war.
As for the decision to drop the nukes, IMO there is nothing to debate. That wasn't modern Japan. At the time they were so willing to nuke us it's not even funny. Nukes weren't the cruelest thing done in that war anyway.
This thread really shit the bed.
What was the original topic? How well a city person would fare in a disaster as opposed to a country person?
Sorry, I can't walk away from the attack on public schools. They are a core element of our democracy and are one of the reasons the US has been great. I teach at a university and see the products of the public schools and of other schools. The public schools are doing an excellent job with our kids.
Your protectionist attitude given your vocation is admirable albeit misplaced. If public schools are so great then why did they need to adopt a socialist method of financing? Why aren't they tuition based? Pretty simple answer, they would never survive on their own merit. It is a documented fact that home and Christian schooled kids way outperform the products of public schools both academically and morally.
I think you need to look at the parents role in how great a kid turns out rather than an institutional perspective. You are in education so you know as well as I that the brain is "wired" for learning and understanding before the kid reaches 3 years old.
The top 5 students at my kids 2 year PUBLIC college were all home/Christian schooled. The Valedictorian was 100% home schooled. This out of a student body of some 3,800+kids.
In anticipation of your citing economic reasons for the difference in academic achievement, the majority of home/Christian school families that I know of are living at or below the poverty index.
It is shameful that there are so many people ignorant of the truth in the founding principles of this country that are so willing to get on their knees for the communists/socialists that want to destroy our freedom.
The very philosophy that we fought WW2 over to keep our freedom, people are now accepting being spoon fed by a socialist public school system that has given them a fully propagandized higher lateral ego which is why they cannot accept how wrong they are in their objective reasoning. Narcissism is after all phychological disorder.
[/quote]
Quote from: JR on April 19, 2017, 10:06:54 PM
^That last paragraph reads like propaganda. Or a conspiracy theory.
...case in point.
Quote from: XH29N0G on April 20, 2017, 06:03:58 AM
Sorry, I can't walk away from the attack on public schools. They are a core element of our democracy and are one of the reasons the US has been great. I teach at a university and see the products of the public schools and of other schools. The public schools are doing an excellent job with our kids.
Guess I lied. Sue me. I've taught too, in high school and 2 universities. Even developed a new curriculum, Law and Lit, the only req'd reading being Dickens'
Bleak House. Our public schools are abysmal--just check into the average IQ of high school teachers. Or go to Worldmapper.org and punch in whatever education numbers you like.
http://www.worldmapper.org/
Or John Taylor Gatto's site.
http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/john_gatto.html
Sources are legion, and as close as any newspaper. This kind of blanket statement won't hold water. And with 1 in 40 boys now on the Autism spectrum acc. to the CDC's own statistics, it's not getting better. But here's sumthin that just happened to satisfy the sadist in all of us
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92oAYOlyoHA
Yeah, good luck flying that kite. Ironically/conveniently, since as early as 2000 a circuit court (NY) upheld the right of police departments to limit the IQ of their candidates
http://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836
Think of it as a win/win for public schools and police departments. :coolgleamA:
Concerning for the Christian school vs everyone else, this is bordering on discussing religion and I'd prefer to not get this thread locked. The reality is each schools is different, some public schools out perform some private schools, and vice versa. The common factor seems to be which school receives the best finding. Be it public or private. I could post charts reviewing the performance of various schools, but I don't think you're interested in that.
I think you priority is "which school produces more sheltered, close minded, prejudiced people that preach the exact same religion I do and don't offend me with that damn dirty liberal talk".
And if that's your number one priority, then hey, you got me there. Congrats.
I don't care if you want to criticize my viewpoint, that is your privilege. But when you make up a fake quote to put YOUR words in my mouth to justify your point that is just shear and utter ignorance.
Christians are far from close minded, quite the opposite is true. We are critical of behaviors and philosophy's that are both personally and socially destructive. We strive to change those behaviors for the betterment of all by pointing out truth and reality.
For instance, the worldwide Church I belong to has opened a clinic next to the local planned parenthood (PP)office. They offer sonograms free of charge to expectant mothers that are about to enter PP for an abortion. To date 85+% of those mothers elect to keep the baby once they see that there is a real human being inside of them and not a blob of protoplasm as PP has led them to believe.
Planned Parenthood was started by Margerate Sanger (an avid believer in eugenics) as a way to control the black population. The great majority of the women entering the local PP are in fact black.
I am sure most here have seen the discusting videos of PP administrators selling body parts, only possible for them to do that using a human being NOT a blob of protoplasm! Hypocrites and mass murderers plain and simple. Do I have to point out that most if not all PP offices are located in inner cities where there is the highest concentration of black population?
So....how's that for close minded!?
While I typed this, my contribution to my Church supporting the free clinic has saved the lives of 1-3 babies. :2thumbs:
Yup....we country people that are religious are soooo close minded and dumb! :smilielol:
I think I'd better quit reading this thread.
Well that not only ran off the tracks it fell right off the side of the cliff...
Troy