Okay, here's the low-down:
My dash wiring was completely make-shift and my gauges were mounted on a piece of wood. The previous owner had all aftermarket gauges, and all the engine wiring was also his own creation. He had spliced the headlight harness and wiper harness into his wiring, and riveted a plate over the hole where the bulkhead connector was located. I recently purchased a dash and engine harness from Year One. I cut out all the wiring I could tell was his and on the dash side was left with mostly plug-and-play connectors, less the body lights and one or two other small things. Under the hood I began splicing the wiring back into the correct location on some salvage yard bulkhead connectors I cleaned up. I have everything hooked up into the bulkhead on the engine bay side EXCEPT the four wiper wires. On the interior side, I don't have the door switches, radio, heater, brake pedal, cigarette stuff, light by ignition, speedo and clock (no big deal), or console lights hooked up. I'll post a bunch of pics in that thread to show you what I've got going on under my hood.
What I have working:
- Car starts
- Headlights work (brights too)
- Reverse lights work (had to make Neutral safety plug out of salvage parts)
- Neutral safety seems to work
- Tail lights work
- Turn signals
- Left and right turn indicator
- Alternator Gauge
What I don't have working:
- the three gauges on circuit (assuming voltage limiter, going to do the solid state mod when parts come in)
- gauge back lights
- dimmer switch
- flasher switch
- right turn indicator
- dome light
- door switches (not hooked up anyway)
- washer fluid button
- brake lights
- brake indicator light (assuming it lights when E-brake is engaged?)
- wiper switch (no big deal as it isn't hooked up
I'm sure I left a few things out. My main concern is with the gauge stuff not working and the brake lights. It's mostly plug-in stuff so I figured it was a no brainer. Does it have to be bolted to the dash to work? I usually don't bother as I have to have it out all the time anyway since I'm trying to get it all dialed in. I'm pretty familiar with the diagrams but I have no experience with electrical and It takes me a while to figure routing out. But, so far, so good with the harnesses I've made (other than the gauge issues haha).
Any tips for grounds would help a lot too. I just realized that my column doesn't have a ground on it and apparently its supposed to? Ground locations would be awesome too!
Thanks for your time, it is very much appreciated.
-Mike
start with a wiring diagram for the car you have.www.mymopar.com in reference has the 69 wiring schematics .Aslo in search in this forum search etc [no brake lights] most times turn signal switch.What ever function that's not working do a search in this search forum someone already had the same issue and you might find a solution
the dash cluster has to be grounded to work, so yes is has to be installed.
Thanks guys, I am pretty sure you're right about the T/S switch. I pulled mine out today and saw some splicing that shouldn't have been there. I think when I had it replaced 12 or so years ago, the people who did it spliced the new one into the old connector, "Thanks G*Star!" NOT! I did do a bench test with a couple batteries on the three gauges on the PC board and had all three gauges working. Two AA batteries together brought each gauge to about 3/4. Also, the test on the PC board had good results. Finally some good news. As soon as I have some spare cash I'm going to order a solid state regulator off eBay ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/380917322935?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT ). Does anyone have any experiences with these? Also there's a guy on there that repairs and cleans dimmer switches for $75. Any thoughts or experiences on that? Thanks again guys
Quote from: rikubot on August 26, 2015, 10:34:10 PM
Thanks guys, I am pretty sure you're right about the T/S switch. I pulled mine out today and saw some splicing that shouldn't have been there. I think when I had it replaced 12 or so years ago, the people who did it spliced the new one into the old connector, "Thanks G*Star!" NOT! I did do a bench test with a couple batteries on the three gauges on the PC board and had all three gauges working. Two AA batteries together brought each gauge to about 3/4. Also, the test on the PC board had good results. Finally some good news. As soon as I have some spare cash I'm going to order a solid state regulator off eBay ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/380917322935?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT ). Does anyone have any experiences with these? Also there's a guy on there that repairs and cleans dimmer switches for $75. Any thoughts or experiences on that? Thanks again guys
I run that IVR4 and love it! Can't go wrong with it, great customr service to boot. :2thumbs:
I rebuilt my own rheostat but the chrome was good so I didn't have to do a full rebuild. I jut cleaned up all the parts and it's still working.
Thanks for the information Dino. I'll probably be ordering that one this week then. That's all the convincing I need lol. rheostat is fancy for dimmer? All this lingo is new to me haha. I was thinking about just spraying mine out really well with some carb cleaner, putting some Phil Wood grease on the gear mechanisms, and some dielectric grease on the contacts. Is there a "how-to" on rebuilding/cleaning them? Also is there a way to test them?
Brake lights, dome light, bezel lights are all on the same circuit. Start inspecting wires for areas where the insulation is frayed, also inspect anything that is hot possibly grounding out to the body (lamps, door pin switches, cut wires, disconnected connectors, etc).
My car had a huge issue with this and it ended up being the map light. A hot tab on the switch was somewhat loose and would rattle occasionally touching and grounding out to the dash frame. These things are usually really easy to fix, the hard part is chasing them down.
I had a feeling that not having the door switches hooked up would probably affect all those interior lights on the orange circuit. I see that they have two pegs on them, and I assume one goes to a ground. Is there anywhere specific the grounds in the door switches bolt to? Also I have the map light (the light above glove box?) completely out right now. I'm not sure where that thing hooks up to my "new" dash harness. For a minute I thought someone had just stuck it in there but the hole is too clean. Had to be factory, right? Before I yanked out all the makeshift wiring, the map light did work. I did notice that the switch was very touchy and had a little wiggle that affected it a bit, so I could see that happening in your car real easily. Tomorrow morning I will try to put my switches and map light back in and try to tie up all the loose ends on that "interior light" circuit. Thank you Brock Lee for your advice and experience. I appreciate it more than you know.
Pretty sure I've replaced the turn signal switch in every old Mopar I've owned.
If you replace yours, the reproduction ones are based off a Sea Body so there's a good chance it'll have the extra plug for fender mounted turn signals. It's OK. The switches are the same for quite a few years for all models. Don't let anyone tell you that you have to have a specific one cause if they do, they're just trying to get into your wallet.
Also, the black button for engaging the hazards needs to be trimmed on to fit your steering column. I saved my old buttons hoping to install on a new one?
This is the one I have in my car. If you pay more than $100, you're not looking around enough:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-71-72-73-74-Charger-Turn-Signal-Switch-NEW-/400922137169?hash=item5d58d25251&vxp=mtr
Thanks for the tip, 472.
I found this on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-67-68-69-Barracuda-Turn-Signal-Switch-NEW-/171912330351?fits=Year%3A1969%7CModel%3ACharger&hash=item2806c5fc6f&vxp=mtr
Only $70 (haha thanks MOPAR) and looks like the right one, except the yellow. Says it fits '69 Charger? You have a '70, right?
$50 at mega, mine came with the cancel cam installed as well. It's been in the car for a few years and it still feels as tight as day one, and yes I do use my signals all the time. ;)
http://www.megapartsusa.com/proddetail.asp?prod=114-190080
Quote from: Dino on August 31, 2015, 09:33:36 PM
$50 at mega, mine came with the cancel cam installed as well. It's been in the car for a few years and it still feels as tight as day one, and yes I do use my signals all the time. ;)
http://www.megapartsusa.com/proddetail.asp?prod=114-190080
Daaaang! Thanks Dino! I always forget about Mega. Thats a great price too. How are their rates on shipping?
Quote from: rikubot on September 01, 2015, 12:20:02 AM
Quote from: Dino on August 31, 2015, 09:33:36 PM
$50 at mega, mine came with the cancel cam installed as well. It's been in the car for a few years and it still feels as tight as day one, and yes I do use my signals all the time. ;)
http://www.megapartsusa.com/proddetail.asp?prod=114-190080
Daaaang! Thanks Dino! I always forget about Mega. Thats a great price too. How are their rates on shipping?
It's been too long to remember, but I doub it was a lot because I've ordered more from them. :icon_smile_big:
Quote from: rikubot on August 30, 2015, 12:30:34 AM
I had a feeling that not having the door switches hooked up would probably affect all those interior lights on the orange circuit. I see that they have two pegs on them, and I assume one goes to a ground. Is there anywhere specific the grounds in the door switches bolt to?
Not sure of the year/configuration of your car. My 69 with console has a one connector switch on the drivers side and a 2 pin on the passenger. None of the wires on the switches are grounds. The switch bodies are grounding when they are screwed into the body of the car.
I can't remember the exact wiring, but on the drivers side there is this loop of yellow wires added to the stock door pin connector that branches off to control the console lights. I guess it would be considered an accessory harness. It adds another, identical connector for the jamb switch and wires to run to the console.
On the passenger side, two wires run to the switch. One may run all the way back toward the drivers side and one by the fuse block. I can't remember for sure. Check out a schematic. Non-console cars likely are different.
Sorry I should have stated my options.
Its a '69 with air and heat, console, map light and ignition light.
Ok so the body acts as the ground on all door switches. I do have that driver-side wiring together correctly I believe. Also it looks like there's another plug from console lights that runs back into the dash and ties into the fuse box (pink and orange wires connected to each other). I found a picture of a diagram, but it might be from a '68. Let me know what you think. I'm just gonna try bypassing that map light and key light for now if I can. Thanks for the help Brock!
I have managed to make a little progress.
I got bored last night and went to go start up my car (anyone else just sit in their car?), so of course I started playing with switches. I noticed a tiny little glow on my gauges when I put the headlights on. So I started messing with the dimmer. Low and behold, I have backlights to all six of my gauges! I about had a heart attack. I've never seen real Charger gauges lit up, and although it was pretty dim, it looked so cool! I did find a sweet spot toward the top of the dim setting where they are bright enough to read with ease. My dimmer switch is dodgy as it gets but I'm just happy it sorta works, and now I can see my dead gauges at night haha. :coolgleamA:
Also, I went to check out a buddy's '69, and found that the console accessory wiring ties straight into the fuse box, and somehow I managed to save almost the entire wire from the old wiring. I'm waiting on a couple of the piggy back clips to get it put in there, but on the accessory diagram I found, it shows the passenger side door switch going to the console wiring. Neither my '69 nor my friend's had anything like that. I will just tie it into the fuse box and see what happens. There's not a whole lot left on the interior wiring. I just have to get the door, map, and dome stuff to figure out and it will be complete!
When I lost dash dimmer roll switch or didn't want to replace .I would jump power to its 3 amp fuse to see if they fully came on.And unplugged 3 wire connector from back of roll switch.And tapped into yellow black wire to another power source .And upgraded all dash bulbs from orig 158 to 194s which where bright enough .Never needed to dim them down
I was thinking of doing something similar. Glad to know that someone else has and it works. I never understood why people would want to dim interior lights. They don't make them "too bright" on any car I've ever driven haha
Quote from: rikubot on September 11, 2015, 04:02:21 PM
I was thinking of doing something similar. Glad to know that someone else has and it works. I never understood why people would want to dim interior lights. They don't make them "too bright" on any car I've ever driven haha
Daytime driving with the lights on? That was why I'd dim them in the OTR truck I drove.
Speaking of cool Charger gauge light, the 1st gens are really cool! :2thumbs:
Seems like the early-mid '60s stuff was real spaceship lookin'. I dig it. I used to have a '57 Chrysler New Yorker with the coolest interior. Power everything, push button trans. I miss it so bad! Should have never gotten rid of her :(
I've got an update on my issues:
First, let me apologize for being a newbie and NOT REPLACING ALL MY FUSES!
When I cut out my old harness, I reused the 4 20A fuses. Even though they looked okay, one of them must have had a bad connection. I had a suspicion of this when I was having a spotty dome light, so I changed the fuses around. Dome was then solid, then other stuff didn't work. Last night I picked up a pack and replaced them, ALL NEW fuses now! In the end, I now have working interior lights (except map light, it's out right now being gone through), gauge back lights, and BRAKE LIGHTS!!! I'm very happy I tried that befor ordering a $60 T/S switch. My dimmer has been working very dodgy, but it does work, and will turn on the dome/courtesy lights. I still need to get the piggy back connectors to tie the console wiring into the fuse box, but I had them connected last night and they were working great. Lesson learned: when working with electrical, replace all fuses and bulbs. It is cheap and rules out silly problems that had me scratching my head and second guessing my problem solving. Even if the fuses look good, do it anyway! :brickwall: :slap:
Updated list
What I don't have working:
- the three gauges on circuit (assuming voltage limiter, going to do the solid state mod when parts come in)
- gauge back lights
- dimmer switch
- flasher switch
- right turn indicator
- dome light
- door switches (not hooked up anyway)
- washer fluid button
- brake lights
- brake indicator light (assuming it lights when E-brake is engaged?)
- wiper switch (no big deal as it isn't hooked up
Sadly, I can't be too proud of fixing most of the stuff crossed off because it was mostly bulbs and fuses I thought were good :smilielol:
Funny. Don't think you're the only one. ;) Difference is you were honest about it.
I don't know how much time I've wasted looking for something & it was where it was suppose to be the whole time.
With these old cars it seems as though any fixes are gonna be somewhat time consuming to get figured out so we never think, ( at least me ) of something simple & easy like a fuse.
Now that I've thought about it, I don't remember checking the fuses when I replaced the 3 t/s. :o I'm surprised I got that lucky.
:Twocents: you could test all gauges except amp gauge with 2 1.5 volt C batterys taped together and 2 jumper leads.If gauge moves at all or goes halfway its good.If nothing its bad .Make sure the leads are not reversed or gauge wont move up
You are making excellent progress!
I had the exact same moment with my dash lights. The difference was I was talking to a Charger buddy on the phone and he told me to roll it gently until they came on. Sure enough, it worked. It was the first I had ever seen my dash lights come on! I have even taken that thing apart and cleaned it. Cleaned the contacts with fine paper, it still has that tiny "sweet spot" .
I would also check your gauges PC Board. The problem most likely is the voltage limiter, but it isn't always. Sometimes people screwed with this stuff and got rough with the connector that goes to the harness. A slight crack is all it takes to kill that board.
Washer fluid button. Use a test light on the pump side to test the wiring. Pressing the button in should make the light turn on. If it checks out okay, make sure you have a really good ground coming off the motor. I have had problems with ones for just that reason. The hole may have been enlarged and the screw fits tight because of paint. Knocking that screw up a size or to a coarser thread has brought many of them back to life for me. Just enough to get a new bite on the metal and give it a solid ground. I use a O connector sandwiched between the washer tank and one of the mounting screws.
I still had a new issue develop with my map light. It only works occasionally. I suspect the original relay is tired and sticky.
Quote from: 472 R/T SE on September 13, 2015, 05:41:12 PM
Funny. Don't think you're the only one. ;) Difference is you were honest about it.
I don't know how much time I've wasted looking for something & it was where it was suppose to be the whole time.
With these old cars it seems as though any fixes are gonna be somewhat time consuming to get figured out so we never think, ( at least me ) of something simple & easy like a fuse.
Now that I've thought about it, I don't remember checking the fuses when I replaced the 3 t/s. :o I'm surprised I got that lucky.
Haha thanks that makes me feel better. Yeah seriously, an EASY fix?! I wouldn't know what that would look like if it slapped me in the head! :slap:
Quote from: nascarxx29 on September 13, 2015, 05:54:14 PM
:Twocents: you could test all gauges except amp gauge with 2 1.5 volt C batterys taped together and 2 jumper leads.If gauge moves at all or goes halfway its good.If nothing its bad .Make sure the leads are not reversed or gauge wont move up
Yes sir I read that on here somewhere and tried it out. I got movement on all three gauges. It's a great method for checking gauges in which anyone can do. Thanks Nascar!
Quote from: Brock Lee on September 13, 2015, 07:51:08 PM
You are making excellent progress!
I had the exact same moment with my dash lights. The difference was I was talking to a Charger buddy on the phone and he told me to roll it gently until they came on. Sure enough, it worked. It was the first I had ever seen my dash lights come on! I have even taken that thing apart and cleaned it. Cleaned the contacts with fine paper, it still has that tiny "sweet spot" .
I would also check your gauges PC Board. The problem most likely is the voltage limiter, but it isn't always. Sometimes people screwed with this stuff and got rough with the connector that goes to the harness. A slight crack is all it takes to kill that board.
Washer fluid button. Use a test light on the pump side to test the wiring. Pressing the button in should make the light turn on. If it checks out okay, make sure you have a really good ground coming off the motor. I have had problems with ones for just that reason. The hole may have been enlarged and the screw fits tight because of paint. Knocking that screw up a size or to a coarser thread has brought many of them back to life for me. Just enough to get a new bite on the metal and give it a solid ground. I use a O connector sandwiched between the washer tank and one of the mounting screws.
I still had a new issue develop with my map light. It only works occasionally. I suspect the original relay is tired and sticky.
Yes, finally some progress! About the dimmer, I see a guy on Ebay rebuilds them for $75. Seems like a decent deal if they work smoothly afterwards. I cleaned and lubed mine as well, it helped a lot but still REAL touchy.
I have a feeling the PC board might be the problem. I bought a solid state RT-Engineering limiter and still no dice. I still need to solder the pins to the board too.
Does the washer fluid motor have a ground on it? I think mine is missing and that would definitely explain why its not working.
Damn map lights. I read that the button is also VERY spazzy on those lights as well. I know for a fact that mine was when it worked, and had its own little sweet spot.
Thanks for the advice and sharing your experience
I've got just about everything squared away on my interior lighting. I have a couple of questions: Does the A/C and heater control light come on when you turn on your interior and running lights? Does it plug into that three-holed plug coming off the main dash harness?
-Mike
Quote from: rikubot on October 05, 2015, 10:53:08 PM
I've got just about everything squared away on my interior lighting. I have a couple of questions: Does the A/C and heater control light come on when you turn on your interior and running lights? Does it plug into that three-holed plug coming off the main dash harness?
-Mike
Yes and yes. :yesnod:
Thanks Dino! You are wise Mopar Jedi. It looks like the Ash Receiver lamp also plugs into the same socket. The third plug looks like it splits and powers two bulbs, one next to the clock and one next to the tach. That doesn't seem to make sense to me, my car doesn't have a place for either that isn't already being used buy the main harness lighting?
Yeah I'm a real Obi Wan Kedino! :lol:
I've got my instrument cluster out so I'll check what's plugged in where when I get back this morning. The radio also has a light. I think there's a free socket as well,
Sorry for the delay. I took a look at my wiring and the three socket plug has one wire coming from the ash tray, one from the a/c controls and the third is free. Can you post a picture of what you have split going to the clock?
Quote from: Dino on October 07, 2015, 10:04:32 AM
Sorry for the delay. I took a look at my wiring and the three socket plug has one wire coming from the ash tray, one from the a/c controls and the third is free. Can you post a picture of what you have split going to the clock?
ahh No worries Dino! Currently my three socket plug thingy is empty. I was referring to this accessory diagram. I think I have the wiring for the a/c controls but I have to get a hold of the ash lamp stuff. Does your ash lamp have a ground or is the socket a ground?
Here's the diagram I've been using....
I'm gonna try to get the heat/AC and radio back lights to work today. As far as I know, those just plug right in: The heater light in the little three hole plug and the radio into the plug coming off the harness. Do I need to have anything else hooked up to either?
Nope that's it. Both heater light and radio are grounded to the body so they should light up once you plug them in and turn on the lights. Do you have LEDs? The stock bulbs are barely noticable.
The heater/AC light works! It looks pretty cool but it is dim. Nothing from the radio, though. The ONLY cable I have hooked up to the radio is the one coming off the harness, I think its the orange and red wire plug. The black/green cables are cut, and the speakers and antenna aren't hooked up. Any thoughts?
About the dimness: I do plan on getting LEDs in all my dashboard lighting (except turn signals and brake system light, of course), what do you think? Do you have the LEDs in your backlighting?
I think the radio lght should work with just the plug. Check the bulb first.
Yes I have the LEDs and it makes a world of difference. :yesnod:
I did not use them in the turn sgnal or high beam indicators.
Hopefully I just have a bad bulb. Are those hard to change out? Do you have any recommendations on LEDs? What do you think of the LEDs in the dome and courtesy lights? Sorry for all the questions lol. You're just so damn good at Chargers. Is there any chance you have a photo of your gauge backlights?
The radio bulb is real easy to replace...once you have the radio out... :icon_smile_big:
With the cluster out it's not a big deal, just remove the two bolts on the face of the radio and the nut behind it on the passenger side so you can slide the radio out. The bulb is under a cover on the top.
I bought a bunch of BA9S base bulbs on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/110996849220?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
Those are the ones you need for the radio, gauges, shifter light, ashtray, ignition light, glove box. I don't recommend these though as they came apart when you looked at them. You just need something with the same type of base. I do like the configuration of these but they are cheaply made.
For the dome light, map light, and console lights you need a 1142.
Check Superbrightleds.com. Just do a search by type of car, they have everything you will need. If you need an ignition switch light, get the smallest one they have. There's little room in the housing.
I don't have the best of pics of the radio and such and I'm unable to get one for a while seeing half the car is apart, but I took these last year. The pictures show dark spots on the gauges but in real life it's much richer and clearer. :yesnod:
This is perfect, Dino. It looks just like the ones I saw on a post awhile back. I don't know why cameras make the lights look spotty. It does that with mine too even though they look ok. But honestly I'd be ecstatic with what you got in the pic even though it looks better in person.
I need to get that cluster and radio out, then. Once I figure out that radio light, my dash will have ALL OF ITS LIGHTS! Minus the map light, of course. I've gotten the radio out without doing the cluster before, but I'm not gonna try that again haha.
Thanks for uploading those pictures, you've got a good-lookin' cluster there Dino!
Yeah not bad for a diy paint job, chrome incuded. :icon_smile_big:
I keep forgetting I have a tach on my work bench so I need to find a modern tach do use its guts.
I ordered some T10 and T11 "Cool White" LEDs the other day off eBay. I'm so excited to put them in haha. Do you know off the top of your head what size bulb is in the radio and heater panel? I think the heater bulbs are the same as the dash bulbs.
I still need to get a tach as well. How difficult is the gut swap? I have my old tach (aftermarket) and the opportunity to get the tic toc tac from Mopar John on here that he isn't sure works.
If I recall, the bulbs for the radio and a/c light bar need to be fairly slim as the sockets are very close to the edge of the brackets. If the bulb is wider than the socket it may not fit.
Swapping the guts isn't that hard, but you need an aftermarket tach with the same graduated scale as the stock tach or the readings will be off. I'm looking for a modern tach myself. I already swapped the clock guts for quartz and got new decals to make it purdy again. :icon_smile_big:
Turns out the LEDs I went with fit in the A/C controls, but just barely.
That makes sense. I probably won't mess with that and just fork out the $450 for a new one with harness. Funny how the repro Tacs on Year One are "discount exempt"? :brickwall: :flame: :RantExplode:
Emoji rant over, here's my gauges! Like you said, they look a lot better in person. I'm very happy with them and thank you for the advice and help. :2thumbs:
Side note, I got my horn relay in and now I've got a horn again after ten years of nada haha
Those LEDs definitely do fall apart just from looking at them. Can't complain though cuz they're super cheap and only one is too bad to use. Do you have them in your gear indicator as well? I still need to do my dome and courtesy lights and my interior will be set!
No I have some work to do on the gear selector. I'm only getting around 9 volts or so to that bulb and the LED won't work. It's got an incandescent bulb in it now and it looks bad compared to everything else. I don't know what the deal is but I haven't looked into it yet.
I had at least 6 of them break, I'm never buying these again. Way too frustrating.
THE THREE GAUGES THAT DIDN'T WORK ALL HAD BAD SENDERS!!!!! :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall: Lesson learned: Don't assume ANYTHING works without testing!!!
Anyway, I thought it would be cool to make an
Updated progress list!
What I don't have working:
- the three gauges on circuit
- gauge back lights
- dimmer switch
- flasher switch
- right turn indicator
- dome light
- door switches
- washer fluid button
- brake lights
- brake indicator light
- wiper switch & motor
I'm very thankful for everyone's help, especially you, Dino! She is getting there, slowly, but absolutely surely!
No need to thank me, that's what we're here for! :cheers:
Now you can pay it forward by helping others with your knowledge. :2thumbs:
Yeah never assume anything, I've been guilty of that on more than one occasion. You'd think I'd learn but noooooo. :lol:
Alright, time to test the wiper motor without the switch and see if it runs. Remove the terminal on the motor and get the test leads out. If it's a 2 speed motor then follow this diagram to test the motor. Thanks to E5 Charger for pointing me to this when I needed it. :cheers:
http://www.passion4mopars.com/Bench-Test-Mopar-2-Speed-Wiper-Motors-Concealed-and-Nonconcealed_b_5.html
Check wipers linkage with motor out .They are known to seize up
I appreciate it!
I haven't had the opportunity to help anyone yet, but when that day comes, I'm gonna be pumped!
Thanks for the link, unfortunately, I have the 3-speed wiper. I fear I may have spliced it into the harness wrong. Either way, it needs all new wiring. Have you dealt with re-wiring them things yet?
I have rewired quite a bit which is not too hard to do with a few wiring diagrams and the smart people on this board that always bail me out. :lol:
Did you look for a link similar to the one I posted for 3 speed wipers? If none are available I'm sure someone here can tell you what wire does what what function.
I haven't had time to do very much car stuff because of work and the weather got real nasty and I'm a driveway warrior :(.
I did order a TIC TOC TACH though! Bad news is I think it got dropped at the wrong house. The tracking number says "left on porch" and you bet your sweet radials I was waiting for it. No sign of happiness round these parts :brickwall:. It's not like I've been waiting for one since I was 15! haha hopefully USPS pulls through but I'm pretty worried about it.
Gettin her done!
Major improvement! :2thumbs:
Are you redoing the gauge faces as well? Cheap and easy with Performance Car Graphic decals. :yesnod:
Thanks Dino! Yeah I was planning on it. I'm not gonna lie, though, I'm pretty scared to try to get the speedo needle off. I read in a forum that if you don't clamp down on something, some plastic bushing breaks and you're left forking out cash for a whole new speedo. Yes! I'm glad you endorse that site because that's who I was going with. Have you done yours?
Yes I have, here's my resto thread: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,86736.0.html
Let me set your mind at ease about the needle. If you simply grab the needle by the base and pull it off, you do indeed risk breaking the bushing in the back and you would be sunk. However, there's a large metal wheel on the back of the needle's axle. What you do is grab that wheel and hold it while you pull the needle by the base. In effect you're holding the axle and bushing in place so you can pull the needle off. When you reinstall the needle you hold the wheel again and push the needle back on. Very simple. I've done it a dozen times. When you have the speedometer in your hand also grab that wheel and move it in and out. You can lock the needle in place. When you do you'll hear and feel it click. I had locked mine by accident and when I went on a test drive with my new gauges, the speedometer didn't budge. I had to take it back out and pull the wheel to release it. Doh!
You can alo leave the small gauge needles in place and slide the decal behind it, just be careful with those needles as they are very fragile. It helps to rig up something to bolt the gauge to o you can use both hand maneuvering the decal.
I say go for it, your cluster will look brand new and the leds while really show them off. :2thumbs:
Dino, do you know where I could find that little tab that bolts to the back of the tach, then slips into a tab on the harness? I got my needle popped off and faces ordered and I'm working on repainted my bezels now. That paint is a bear to get off. Multiple coats of rustoleum! The thread you linked me to is an inspiration haha. I'm just gonna do silver for the chrome stuff. I just hit it with a paint marker and it looks halfway decent. My cluster bezel is pretty beat up anyway.
I'm not sure what that tab is. Do you have a picture of where it's supposed to go?
Use the yellow easy off oven cleaner can and wrap the bezels in plastic so no air gets to it. Then just leave it alone for a day. It took multiple cycles to get all the paint off mine as well.
The Rustoleum spray cans with the chrome cap give a nice shiny metal look so you can try that as well. It's not chrome by any means but it has more shine than silver to be sure. I just repainted my a/c hard line and horn relay with it. :yesnod:
First off, I can only see 2 square feet of your car and it's the nicest thing I've ever seen. And that relay looks great! Is there anywhere I can look at more pictures of your car?
Thanks for the advice, keeping the chemical from air seems to REALLY help. I've got about 98% off of the cluster bezel, 60% off the radio, and just started the glovebox.
I found a couple pictures of the tab online, it's kind of like the clock tab but looks like it has a pin on it and is a bigger diameter hole:
I have no clue where to find that tab. :shruggy:
I'll probably start a new thread about the work I started this summer, but there's several pictures of my ride on this site. Look for " new wheels are on" started by me. It'll show a few good shots of the car. You'll also find some pics of the recent engine bay transformation in paint and body among others.
I did a search for said forum, and it turned up nada. I don't like the interface of this site! I always have troubles with searches and uploading images.
Unrelated, I have a PCG decal question:
What decal do I put on my temp gauge? 170 or 241? The paperwork seems to have conflicting instructions. On one it says that the affected cars got new gauges, and that the correct decal is 241. It also says it doesn't need recalibrated. My cluster case came out of a '68, so I'm not sure if they're telling me to update the decal, or stick with the old style? I'm sure I'm complicating things and confusing myself. Anyway, thanks in advance.
- Mike
The search on this site sucks. :yesnod:
Here's the thread when I bought my wheels; http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,101768.0.html
Here's some of the current work: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,120098.0/all.html
I've been working on the grille lately and have some non-car projects going so these pics show how the car sits at the moment. I'll get some more pics up soon. I'm also working on the engine which is just about ready for a cam swap and a repaint. The K member and lower control arms have been beefed up and those along with the upper control arms have been e-coated. Pics near the end of this thread: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,119789.0/all.html
First two pics show the car early August when I started the work.
For the temp decal use te one that has the temp arc centered instead of offset.
.
Thanks a ton for going through all the trouble with that post. Your car looks great, and your handiwork is highly impressive. I'm going to do my best to mimic you as I go along with mine. It might not be as good but at least I can say it was me haha. That engine bay came out great, and the wheel choice is perfect. I've only seen the small thumbnail of your ride on the left. Crazy that's only been since August. Great work all around.
Thank you sir, I was able to get my decals applied and it looks worlds better. Just waiting on paint and the engine side harness for the tach and as soon as it warms up a little I'll be slappin' it back in there, hopefully with no problems. I went with the SEM Trim Black you spoke of, and since my bezel is pretty beat up, I'm just gonna paint marker the details. How did you spray your bezels? I've only painted bike parts as of yet so I'm hoping it goes well and doesn't require any more Easy-Off haha.
Again thanks for going through the trouble of finding my those links, and letting me know the correct temp decal :punkrocka:
My pleasure and thanks for the compliments! :cheers:
The bezels are ABS so there's two ways of prepping them. Either you use SEM Sand Free or you use an adhesion promoter. I went with the latter. The Sand Free will soften up the plastic so the paint really sticks to it. This is all very nice but if the can produces droplets, it may make them visible later on. Duplicolor adhesion promoter is cheap, readily available, and works really well.
Clean the bezels with Dawn dish soap and warm water. Not hot, hot can warp the bezels.
Clean it until it's as clean as it can be and dry it thoroughly with paper towels. I suggest wearing nitrile or latex gloves once you've cleaned them so you're not leaving prints on the plastic. Give the bezels two dust coats of promoter 2-5 minutes apart. Wait another few minutes and give it a light coat of trim black. If no artifacts show up you've done your prep well and you can shoot a wet coat a few minutes later. Shoot a second wet coat about 10 minutes later, depending on temp and humidity. That's it!
Since the wide recesses around the gauges are chrome, you may want to try painting them with Rustoleum Metallic. It' much brighter and shinier than silver. Yuo can also shot the area with gloss black first to give it a deeper chrome lok. You can do black followed by the chrome metallic right away as if it was the same paint. Rustoleum 2K would be prefect for it. You would do the prep the same, shoot the chrome (with optional black) first, ignoring the overspray on the rest of the bezel and let it dry for a day or so. Then you can mask the chrome, give the rest a coat of adhesion promoter and follow it up with trim black. Just food for thought.
The trick on doing the white lettering by the way is going slow and using thin coats. I probaly did each letter 4-5 times to make them bright white without drowning out the lettering. If you flinch and hit the black, shoot some black in the can cap and touch up with a fine brush. Trim black can be touched up and you'll never see it, it's the best paint ever to come out of a rattle can.
That tab should be easy to find. To get you by, just crimp a O ring style connector to a short wire with a male spade connector on the other end.
These things are typically used for grounding and they make a bunch of different varieties. Often with multiple spades coming off. Your best bet it to go to an electronics supply joint and ask. Online places that have them may not list a clear illustration and may have minimum orders to deal with.
I'm glad I asked, Dino. I was just going to clean, spray, and hope for the best. Again thanks for all the advice, I'll probably get that promoter and paint on the way home from work.
@Brock,
What I ended up doing was steal the tab off the back of my old clock and drill it out. It's not perfect, but it stays on pretty tight. I must have used all my O-ring connectors, but it worked out in the end.
-Mike
For future reference, you'll pay on average $16 per can of SEM paint in the stores and around $10 here: http://www.repaintsupply.com/cart.php
If you need a few like I do now for my grille and steering column then it pays off to order from these guys. $9.50 for trim black is hard to beat.
Thanks for the link. I'm excited to use this stuff. I ended up paying 15 something on eBay. I figured there was a better place but I jumped the gun. Is the Duplicolor Adhesion Promoter a wal-mart sorta purchase or should I just head to a car parts shop? It's cold here too so I'm either gonna shoot it in the basement or just wait. Tell ya what though, I'm really excited to have that tac setup in my car. And with the new faces and fresh paint on the bezels it should look pretty cool. My job has me working Saturdays now but hopefully Sunday I can mess with some wires and get it all ready to slap in. Do you drop your column when you pull out your gauges?
Auto parts store. I think all of them carry it, got mine at O'Reilly. It's Duplicolor CP199. You can google it and see who has it close to you. I wouldn't be surprised to find it at Walmart.
On a 69 you have to drop the column to get the cluster out and make sure you remove the radio plate first or it's breaking time! Releasing the cluster from the dash may be enough but I remove the 4 bolts at the firewall as well and drop the whole thing, it makes life so much easier, especially when reinstalling the cluster.
Don't paint if it's too cold or te paint won't cure. A small heater or some extra lights to warm it up may work. Have your pieces ready to paint warm up inside the house and put the paint can in hot water for 10 minutes. That'll help a lot and will make the paint flow so much better. Once it's painted you need to keep it warm for a while, the longer the better.
Post pics when you're done! :2thumbs:
Damn Dirk, that's fine work. When are you going to start restoring cars professionally?
About 24 years ago. :icon_smile_big:
I restored cars from '91 to '07. :yesnod:
The infinite wisdom! I appreciate man, this forum is all I got, and it's enough! *fist bump*
Got the promoter on the way home at O'Reilly's. The guy there had me looking at some other brand/can for 20.99! I said "let me look around a bit" and found the right stuff. At my O'reilly's, it's hit or miss. If the hot Mexican chick helps, you're golden. If the tall southern man offers to help, just look for yourself haha. They didn't have the Rustoleum stuff but they had other Duplicolor chrome-ish stuff. I just went with the primer, though. I don't want to stray from the path.
I'll definitely post pics when its all ready to put it back in. Then this question comes to mind: What next??? Haha I guess I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
Edit: New fuel sender is the answer! lol
Same story with my O'Reilly's here...except we don't have a hot Mexican chick but a luke warm blonde. :lol:
Yeah stick with the plan, the Rustoleum Metallic is a good quality paint, it's cheap, and it looks nice. Again it's not chrome but it beats plain silver. The Duplicolor promoter is one of those paints that's better than it's supposed to be. No need for any of the more expensive paints. I've used this on bare metal and the adhesion was excellent.
There's always something else to do on these old beast so careful what you wish for. :lol:
New fuel sender huh? I hope you're buying one that's calibrated correctly. I bought my new one becaue I wanted to upgrade to one wit a return line, but all the new senders back then had the wrong resistors on them. Thanks to a tip from Charger-Bodie, I scavenged the resistor from my old unit and welded it in place of the new one. Do you currently have a sender?
Haha! "Luke-warm blonde" got me laughing.
I do have a sender, any tips/experiences? I have to drain the tank too as I just filled it up before it got cold :brickwall:
Edit:
I should say that on a full tank, my gauge BARELY moves up to just before "empty"
Unless you want a different type of sender you can probably keep it. Remove it to make sure it works though. You can drain the tankwith a transfer pump from harbor freight. If you remove a fewgallons through the filler tube, you can remove the sender and drain the rest from that hole. Put the car on stands and lower the axle to get good access.
Put the sender on the workbench and check for damage. If you don't see any, take a multimeter and measure the resistance. Float all the way up should be around 10 ohm, all the way down around 73 and halfway around 24.
More than likely the issue with the fuel gauge is the gauge itself, but they're easy to calibrate. Find the midway point of the sender by using the ohm value (look them up on the board or in the book because I could be wrong about it), and by measuring the travel. Hook up the fuel gauge and use a small flat blade screw driver in the small holes in the rear of the gauge housing to move the internal cam until the needle is at the halfway mark. There's two cam's with teeth in the gauge and you grip the teeth wth the screwdriver. Use one side to fine tune the low end and the other to fine tune the high end. I think there's pictures of it in the shop manual. It's really not that hard to do, but you do have to remove the gauge from the cluster. By the way, you can tune your oil and water temp gauges the same way using the sending unit as they all work on the same ohm values.
My car sat for 5 or so years on empty, is there any way it froze up? I bench tested the gauge with the double A battery method and it read out the same as the other two gauges.
I doubt it, there's nothing there to lock the needle. It's a bimetallic strip that moves the needle when heated. The little arms holding the needle may need rebending. If they're loose the needle won't move as it should. It happened with one of mine, the needle would rise to about a quarter and drop back down.
How about the arm on sender? Do they ever tend to rust up?
They do but they can usually be cleaned up easily. Just throw it in evapo-rust for a night.
Quote from: Dino on December 03, 2015, 11:36:08 AM
About 24 years ago. :icon_smile_big:
I restored cars from '91 to '07. :yesnod:
Well you've definitely got a trade and a skillset available.
"DIRK's Restorations and Custom Classics" has a nice sound doesn't it?
Do I get my own TV show?
Can I be in it?
Of course!
I'd be tuning into that one every time it aired!
I got my bezel covered with the trim paint, and I'm very impressed. If a product can look good even AFTER I've come in contact with it, then it's good stuff. Your advice was sound, as usual. Warmed the cans and bezels and shot them in my bedroom lol. I'm excited to do the metallic paint, but I am keeping my hopes low as far as it having a chrome-like finish. As long as its shinier than the paint marker that I was going to use, I'll be super happy.
I bought some frog tape too. It looks just like the blue painter's tape, but green? Says it won't bleed. Did I get the right stuff? I'm currently looking for my white paint marker...
The cat knocked my marker under the couch haha!
Got the lettering done, and I have a somewhat silly question:
Where do I mask the bezel for the outer trim? I think I see where you did it in your thread but I'm not sure.
You shot it in your bedroom? Damn! :lol:
Frog tape is great, you'll love it. :2thumbs:
The outer trim is chrome all the way up to the textured part. There's a fine border between the smooth and textured parts. This picture is the best I have to show it.
That's perfect. All I needed to know. And again, "WOW!"
I know right? That's quality workmanship there...
Hells yes. And I forgot to say thanks earlier :punkrocka:
No need for thanks, it's my pleasure to help. Folks here help me out all the time and I just pass it on.
Thanks for the compliments fellas. :cheers:
Sorry I've been MIA, I've been MASKING A '69 CHARGER gauge bezel!!!! Haha
It's about twice as difficult as I imagined, and I imagined it was going to be really difficult! The round shapes are fully intense to mask. I'm about half done with the gauges. I got the other two sprayed and I'm pretty happy that I went with the metallic instead of the silver paint marker. Definitely not chrome, but its quite reflective and looks pretty good to me. That SEM + the adhesion promoter is the bee's knees. I'm gonna tape a little more tonight and hopefully spray it tomorrow or the next day.
Other news, a buddy is giving me his old toolbox for Christmas. That will help a lot, I'm always looking for my tools when I work on cars.
Masking is 1/4 technique, 1/4 art and 1/2 patience. :yesnod:
Yeah the metallic is nice. It may not be chrome, but it's a good looking paint, kinda like silver on steroids. :lol:
SEM is good stuff, always loved their paints. Funny enough, today was the first time I had a less than stellar experience with a SEM product. I was spraying their high build primer surfacer on my grille. The issue is not with the primer itself which turned out to be 10 times better than what I had hoped for, but the can itself was crap. I could not get a decent stream to come out of that can. It worked out though, I just used a few more thin coats and it built up very nicely. But it shouldn't have been this hard. I also used their color coat Titanium silver for the first time and it was awesome! Great flow and super coverage. Trim black is just about my favorite rattle can black. :yesnod:
I can't wait to see pics of your work buddy! :2thumbs:
Masking is 1/4 technique, 1/4 art and 1/2 patience. :yesnod:
Yeah the metallic is nice. It may not be chrome, but it's a good looking paint, kinda like silver on steroids. :lol:
SEM is good stuff, always loved their paints. Funny enough, today was the first time I had a less than stellar experience with a SEM product. I was spraying their high build primer surfacer on my grille. The issue is not with the primer itself which turned out to be 10 times better than what I had hoped for, but the can itself was crap. I could not get a decent stream to come out of that can. It worked out though, I just used a few more thin coats and it built up very nicely. But it shouldn't have been this hard. I also used their color coat Titanium silver for the first time and it was awesome! Great flow and super coverage. Trim black is just about my favorite rattle can black. :yesnod:
I can't wait to see pics of your work buddy! :2thumbs:
I got her all taped up and sprayed last night. It came out pretty good! The paint didn't run under ANY of my taping, which surprised the hell outta me. It will need some touching up where my tape job was less than perfect haha. But honestly I could be happy with it as is. Lemme see if this site is gonna be a good boy and let me upload a couple pics...
Excellent! Good job my friend! :2thumbs:
Now every time you drive that car you will look at this and feel mighty good that you did this yourself.
Yes sir I will! Maybe down the road I'll find a nicer bezel (this one is pretty beat up) and do the vacuum plating deal. But for now I'm happy you convinced my to do the metallic paint and that Trim Black is so awesome I might paint my whole damn everything in it haha! Thanks again for the guidance and advice, I'll post up when I plop that baby back in.
My pleasure, I'm glad to be of help.
I know how you feel about trim black, it's exactly the reaction I had. I was just looking for stuff to paint! :lol:
I'll be doing my grille with it in the next few days. :2thumbs:
Ooohh I sure hope you post a progress thread on that sucker! Mine needs a prettying up too.
I will. There's a few pics of it in the "what did you to with your Charger" thread, but I will start a separate thread on it soon. I did some repainting today and I should be able to spray the low luster clear tomorrow. I had to buy an extra can of trim black to do one of the headlight bezels and I think something was wrong with the paint as it turned out really dull compared to the other pieces. I may need to redo that one, I don't know yet.
I had to do extensive repairs to this grille so I'll do a thread with a step by step how to from plastic repair to paint.
Dino, I just had a thought:
The previous owner had after market gauges in my ride, and I'm pretty sure those ran on 12v instead of the 5v from the regulator. Would this mean he had to change the sender as well to sync it with the new fuel gauge? If that's the case, I need a new (old style) sender, right? And maybe that would explain why my fuel gauge barely moves when Christine is full of gas... Just a theory haha, it's been too cold to do anything in Colorado :/
Christine huh? ;) :2thumbs:
The voltage doesn't matter in this instance, but the resistace does. If that 12 volt gauge runs on the same resistance as the stock gauge then the sender is fine, but if it's different then the sender may have been changed. Pull the sender and measure the resistance to make sure of what you have there.
On a side note: I finished my grille today and will bolt it into the frame tomorrow. Pics and thread to follow.
Hah yes sir. People ask me why I named her after the car from the movie, and I tell them all the same thing: i didn't name her, she is just "Christine"... :icon_smile_evil: :icon_smile_evil: :icon_smile_evil:
I see, I just need to drain that tank and yank it out any test it.
Damn brother, I can't wait to see it. You're car has some majorly awesome things happening to it lately!
I guess your car must've spoken to you then, mine does that as well. :lol:
No need to drain all the fuel from the filler neck. Once you have about half out you'll be below the sending unit hole and can remove the sender. You can drain the rest of the tank from there if you want, or just measure the resistance and stick the sender back in place.
Yeah lots of work has been done and lots more needs to be done! The grille was supposed to be done last but my budget ran dry and I had pretty much everything I needed to restore the grille without spending a bunch of money. I should have the grille thread up Wednesday if nothing else comes up.
The grille is done: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,121524.msg1510027/topicseen.html#msg1510027
Dino, I'm having the issues with the back lights on the right half of the cluster. Just like you said, the bench test shows connection, but in the dash I get no right side lights. I soldered that pin to the board but it looks terrible. It does seem to work better, but I won't know til I put it in and we are getting 8 inches of snow overnight supposedly. Is there anything else you think it could be if this doesn't fix it? Also, if I can't save this board, where would I get a replacement that won't cost an arm, leg, and testicle? Also pt2 did you find out if you are getting into grad school :P
If you get power throguh the wiring and connectors then all that is left is the circuit board or the bulb sockets. If the sockets are loose they may cut out. You can wiggle them around a bit and look for fluctuations. I think you can still buy the sockets if needed. You could use a drop of glue to hold them in place, but I've never tried that.
If the solder looks bad then don't take a chance and redo it. Solder needs to be done right or it can fail. Use a solder wick and remove what's on there now. Clean the pin and board, put some flux on the joint if needed, heat the pin and hold the solder to the joint. It'll flow right in there, only takes a second or two. Once you get the hang of it do all the pins.
You can test the circuit board with the cluster on your bench. Trace the bulbs to the pin that needs power, forget which one it is now, and hook it up to a 12v battery. Don't forget to ground the cluster. Bulbs should all light up.
My school of choice's admission committee is meeting on Tuesday so I should know before long.
Ok cool. I redid the solder and it looks a lot better. I'm thinking about getting a repop circuit eventually, though. Hopefully this will work for now. I also plan on getting as many new harnesses as they make, and make all new ones for the ones they don't. All this old electrical stuff worries me.
Here's the circuit board I was looking at, what do you think of it?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-Rallye-Dash-Cluster-CIRCUIT-BOARD-68-70-B-Body-NEW-PDD-028-/331746199345?hash=item4d3d9d4731:g:phYAAOSwDk5UEaVO&vxp=mtr
Says soldered pins. :shruggy:
On a side note, what is your opinion on the odometer decals? I'm thinking about doing them since I've got it back out and the yellowing kind of bothered me once I put it all back together. I thought I saw new odom wheels somewhere too but I can't seem to find them. I do remember them being a little pricey.
Look up rt speciality's or charger speciality's
They have the curcuit board and the much needed and sometimes the reason your gauges aren't working
Voltage reducer that fits into that board,
You can put original or modernise it with digital modern resister,
Yes the gauge decals are a good budget way to make gauges look fresh ,
I don't have the money to get them screen printed either
That board would work, but as long as your board isn't cracked it'll work just as well with soldered pins.
Yeah get the IVR4 solid state limiter to keep those gauges safe!
I used Performance Car Graphics decals on my cluster including the odometer and it was an easy install and it looks great!
I put my cluster in today and it worked :2thumbs:
I guess the pins just got a little loose from me pulling it out over and over haha. I got my new speedo cable in too so all I have to do now is get a new fuel sender, hook up the cable and swap the pinion gear, re-wire my washer motor, and put my sway bar brackets on. I took some pictures of the LEDs again with the new faces and I'm super happy with it. Thanks Dino :thumbs: I can't wait til it warms up!
You're almost there! Do you have any pics of the car somewhere? I don't think I've ever seen it.
That's largely thanks to you, sir. I do, I'll have to upload them when I get off work, or if you have Facebook I have quite a few on there
I'm glad to be of help. :2thumbs:
I do not have Facebook.
I got my engine side tach harness in the mail today and found that the far right pigtail is the running lights circuit. Which is weird because numerous people on here are saying it could be used for the feed of the tach. I hooked it into that and the tach only worked when the running lights were on :lol:
I was actually the second peg over? but it was on the battery side of the fuse which scares me a little. I could be wrong, but it's what I used. Here's the link:
http://www.1970chargerregistry.com/mboard/index.php?PHPSESSID=f4a86fb79939cd9e382548a7458146b2&topic=40.0
I rounded up a few photos for ya, too. She's not perfect, but she's tough!!
another
Dino, I'm not sure how to get a hold of you, but which HP manifold did you need? Found somethin on Craigslist not too far
Damn I thought I replied to this! Good looking ride you got there, nothing wrong with it in my eyes! :2thumbs:
I need the passenger side #2806900 or #2899879. I'm not sure what the difference is between the two but if the angle to the pipe is different then I should probably go with the first one. I have a 70-71 left side manifold but I think those are the same as earlier ones.
You can pm me.
Message sent.