What kind of Daytona does $75,000 get me these days??
Quote from: Tom Q on January 11, 2010, 11:44:40 PM
What kind of Daytona does $75,000 get me these days??
A not good one.
I can't think of any real Daytonas that are being offered in this price range. But if there were, it would be a car with any combination of non-numbers engine, missing important pieces, needing a complete restoration, or with a problem history.
The last Daytona in that general price vicinity which comes to mind is Mike Borkowski's former some-assembly-required car. IMHO, a pretty decent car for the price. Those deals aren't too common though, and it's long-gone.
Thanks for the insight,
Will $100,000 buy a decent car then?
If 100K won't cover it, what should one expect to pay for a decent running driving car?
Quote from: Tom Q on January 12, 2010, 06:51:23 AM
Thanks for the insight,
Will $100,000 buy a decent car then?
If 100K won't cover it, what should one expect to pay for a decent running driving car?
What's your definition of decent?
There are running, driving Daytonas that could probably be purchased for somewhere a little north of $100k, but they are not going to be recently-restored or pristine examples.
Quote from: Tom Q on January 12, 2010, 06:51:23 AM
Thanks for the insight,
Will $100,000 buy a decent car then?
If 100K won't cover it, what should one expect to pay for a decent running driving car?
OK, a shameless plug.. :icon_smile_big:
Link to my V2 Daytona for sale (http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,64575.0.html)
The buyer wants a rust free car. Does not have to be #'s matching, color not important. The car will be driven regularly, never to be a show poodle. NOM type car would be fine.
Rust free? :smilielol: Good luck on finding that outside of a restored car.
Plan on $150k at the least, and up from there.
Quote from: Tom Q on January 12, 2010, 09:25:10 AM
...The buyer wants a rust free car....
That's me on all original sheetmetal...... :) Opppps, Sorry Geno, yet another plug.........
The last one I knew of from my part of town that was all there and matching numbers all original sheetmetal went for $100K.I think he let it go to K Burbach Il.Dont recall exactly what year it went.But it hasnt resurfaced restored yet as I know.And last seen it and heres its story
This one I refound in my town about a year ago .Guy sold it for $100.000 I was XX29L9B390014 matching numbers 4 speed F6 green.I saw it in 87 in Philadelphia for $25K.When Frank Kopevach had it at his body shop.Then I found it in Cherry hill NJ .Guy called me looking for parts.Said he had a daytona in cherry Hill.At that time I thought I was the only one in Cherry Hill with a wing car.and I knew the car already even handed the guy a zeroz of the buildsheet Frank allowed me to make a copy of.Where this car is today and what condition its in ??.Maybe one of our viewers can solve this mystery.The recent past owner thought it might have gone to Ken B in IL
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e67/75414/DCP_0144.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e67/75414/DCP_0142.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e67/75414/DCP_0141.jpg)
Other candidates in that $ ranged from the TX burnt toast daytona Muscle car finders barn daytona and NY drove off Cliff daytona.You wouldnt want those :Twocents:
I would like to throw in my opinion on this one. I feel that a 100% restored OE GOLD CONCOURS restoration car in todays money is around $250,00.00. Then lets use some factors that can be applied at any value and you'll see how easy this is. I will use Mike Borkowskis car and the bulldozer ravine cars as examples of how this works. I personally e-mailed mike about his car thinking it may have been a step up for me on my R4 Daytona. Mine is missing the broadcast sheet but Mikes was missing the original engine for sure and maybe the trans. So I would loose ground in my opinion. So here goes:
$250,000.00
-30% OE GOLD restoration
-25% matching engine complete ( block and all date coded parts )
-15% matching transmission
-5% original broadcast sheet missing
-5% original fender tag missing
-10% original Daytona specific parts missing ( complete nose, fenders, hood, deflectors, wing rear window trim )
So the Mike Borkowski Daytona that reportedly sold for $75,000.00 is right on!
$250,000.00 -30% OE resto -25% matching engine -15% matching trans = $75,000.00
Now lets take the ravine Daytona:
$250,000.00 -30% OE resto -25% matching engine -15% matching trans -5% broadcast sheet -5% fender tag
-10% original Daytona parts = $25,000.00 I think it would sell for something around that if it hasn't already?
The lower end cars tend to bring more than there worth when you consider how much it will take to make them correct and the fact that there arn't many entry level cars anymore.
Now you can do this:
HEMI add 150% ???
4 speed add 15% ?
console add 5%
warranty block add 10% ? CAUTION CAUTION? date code correct block add 5%
rare options and colors CAUTION CAUTION CAUTION!!!
Someone sold a 1 of 1 Superbird that was rootbeer brown and now I think there is 3 of them!!
There was a guy selling a torquoise Daytona 1 of 3 and now it's 4 or 5?
I thought I had a 1 of 1 Daytona with the fold down armrest but I've seen pictures on this site of at least 1 more!
So with all the cars not accounted for you could get hurt on this rare color/option stuff!!
I have rounded some percentages off but they could move around a little but I think I'm close.
I hope this helps.
Shoot, Steve's old R6 4-speed with a lot of sheetmetal work and I believe not the original motor sold for $259,000 at Best of Show Auto last year, when the market wasn't anywhere near recovery... I would think my all original sheetmetal car would fetch at least a 100 grand less?
Oh... the joy.............
Troy
Troy,
You have your car for sale on Moparts and recently reduced the price from $175,000 to $165,000 to move it. I understand your trying to move up to a 4 speed car? If you use my value and numbers am I in the ballpark on your asking price?
Mopar John
Quote from: Mopar John on January 14, 2010, 06:24:55 PM
Troy,
You have your car for sale on Moparts and recently reduced the price from $175,000 to $165,000 to move it. I understand your trying to move up to a 4 speed car? If you use my value and numbers am I in the ballpark on your asking price?
Mopar John
Yes, there's a 4-speed car or F6 auto I could get. There's other personal objectives as well. I think the 25% reduction in value due to a missing original block is a little too much, but that's me.. I honesty would place more value weight on a missing tag than block. So many of these cars lost their original motor in the first 2 or so years. I think I'm more than fair enough in the pricing of my car. The highlight of it is it's overall body condition and the fact that no panels have been replaced. On top of that, she has her original interior sans carpet (that was replaced some time ago). Shoot, it's a little over $15k less than it sold for back in '07, so that's reflective of the downturned national financial condition. You've seen the car....
Troy
Troy,
I have seen your car in person and it's a very nice car! The original sheetmetal weighs in very heavy in my mind if you read my story. The original interior is a plus also! Your car has obviuosly had some level of restoration. But you go against your own defense when you say that "so many cars lost their motors in the first 2 years". Thats why my percentage is so high. But I think if you look at the add backs for a warranty block and or a date coded block and the date coded components it could lessen the penalty to 10 - 15%. To be fair I won't go back and change my original post but I will clarify here. In my parenthases where I state block and date coded components put
- 20% by the block and -5% by the date coded components to equal the -25%. So if a guy had a warranty block with all the components -25% + 10% warranty block and + 5% date coded components = -10%. I have addressed the original Daytona sheetmetal already but you could convince me to lessen the motor hit by a MAX of 5% and add original sheetmetal at 5% to include interior floor pans, trunk floor, extensions, rear valance and quarters.
John
Quote from: Mopar John on January 14, 2010, 08:35:40 PM
Troy,
I have seen your car in person and it's a very nice car! The original sheetmetal weighs in very heavy in my mind if you read my story. The original interior is a plus also! Your car has obviuosly had some level of restoration. But you go against your own defense when you say that "so many cars lost their motors in the first 2 years". Thats why my percentage is so high. But I think if you look at the add backs for a warranty block and or a date coded block and the date coded components it could lessen the penalty to 10 - 15%. To be fair I won't go back and change my original post but I will clarify here. In my parenthases where I state block and date coded components put
- 20% by the block and -5% by the date coded components to equal the -25%. So if a guy had a warranty block with all the components -25% + 10% warranty block and + 5% date coded components = -10%. I have addressed the original Daytona sheetmetal already but you could convince me to lessen the motor hit by a MAX of 5% and add original sheetmetal at 5% to include interior floor pans, trunk floor, extensions, rear valance and quarters.
John
My point about the original block is that these things don't grow on trees... I mean, if you compare two 383 Road Runners, both of quality restoration, but one with it's original drivetrain and one without, then yes, there's a broader percentage difference in value. But, on the scale of Daytonas, A12's, 'Birds, LO's and such, these in themselves are scarce... So, if I had two Daytonas of the same restoration level and worth, say $100,000 for the one with it's motor, I would be hard pressed to lower the other one to $75,000 just because the stamping on the block didn't match.. I guess I look at having the original block as the cup half full, not half empty....
You make very valid remarks... You should run for office... I'd vote for you... :2thumbs:
Quote from: hemi68charger on January 14, 2010, 06:12:28 PM
Shoot, Steve's old R6 4-speed with a lot of sheetmetal work and I believe not the original motor sold for $259,000 at Best of Show Auto last year, when the market wasn't anywhere near recovery... I would think my all original sheetmetal car would fetch at least a 100 grand less?
Oh... the joy.............
Troy
you're comparing reality to a HUGE sucker that bought Steve's car... that was a one-in-a-million deal.
Quote from: pettybird on January 14, 2010, 11:55:16 PM
Quote from: hemi68charger on January 14, 2010, 06:12:28 PM
Shoot, Steve's old R6 4-speed with a lot of sheetmetal work and I believe not the original motor sold for $259,000 at Best of Show Auto last year, when the market wasn't anywhere near recovery... I would think my all original sheetmetal car would fetch at least a 100 grand less?
Oh... the joy.............
Troy
you're comparing reality to a HUGE sucker that bought Steve's car... that was a one-in-a-million deal.
Hey Doug.... How ya doing along with your Mom?
Per my editting of my original ebay ad, guess the sucker's not a sucker? I see it on Best of Auto Show's website/ebay again........ Did Joe not sell it or is it back on consignment? It's on his sold-inventory list. As far as reality and one-in-a-million, that's all it takes sometimes since these cars, one person willing to pay the price. These pedigrees don't grow on trees.. Believe me though, I'm not sticking up for the high price one bit at all.. I personally think my car has the same overall value as that one, high or reality-low. (Ok,, maybe not quite as much, but darn close). With the Barrett-Jackson and Megum segment, all it takes is "one-in-a-million" to establish, to them, a new market benchmark. :rofl:
Troy
Steves old R6 car looks like you can buy it know for $179K
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dodge-Charger-Daytona-Investment-Grade-1969-Dodge-Charger-Daytona-s-Match_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem53df03ab8eQQitemZ360223845262QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks
Quote from: nascarxx29 on January 15, 2010, 11:08:23 AM
Steves old R6 car looks like you can buy it know for $179K
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dodge-Charger-Daytona-Investment-Grade-1969-Dodge-Charger-Daytona-s-Match_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem53df03ab8eQQitemZ360223845262QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks
That's not Steve's car...
It's the old Donna Schill / Happy Daze car, 409058, Hemi Orange.
Ok my misread it mentioned Steves car in the description .The former black cherry car
Quote from: nascarxx29 on January 15, 2010, 11:08:23 AM
Steves old R6 car looks like you can buy it know for $179K
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dodge-Charger-Daytona-Investment-Grade-1969-Dodge-Charger-Daytona-s-Match_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem53df03ab8eQQitemZ360223845262QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks
Steve's former Daytona is the other one, the R6 foe-speed.
OK, just for practice "price" my Daytona (which is not for sale). Let's call it the AT&T Daytona due to an encounter with a telephone pole in 1979... :eek2:
I purchased the car in the late 1980s without any front end sheetmetal or engine/transmission. It is a R4 Performance Red body color originally with a black interior and automatic transmission. The wreck damaged the front sub-frames, and the engine dented the firewall, but the doors still open and close normally.
The fender tag & broadcast sheet were both present, but the broadcast sheet was for another Daytona...
Over the years I have purchased the following parts for the Daytona:
1) NOS nose cone (not a repro)
2) Used Z-Braces (needing minor repair)
3) Repro mounting channels and other minor parts for nose assembly
4) Excellent used pair of fender scoops (from a R4 colored car too)
5) Excellent used front fenders and hood from a 1970 Charger for modification to Daytona configuration
6) 1969 year code 440 engine & transmission
7) Various NOS, used, and repro parts not specific to a Daytona
Well... :shruggy: WIW ???
if it is NOT for sale, then we should NOT be teased good sir!! :nana:
Quote from: 69charger2002 on January 15, 2010, 11:44:42 PM
if it is NOT for sale, then we should NOT be teased good sir!! :nana:
No tease intended... :angel:
It might be available as part of a multi-car trade for a turn-key real Daytona... or could
eventually be for sale if I trade the Hemi `Cuda for a turn-key real Daytona... :shruggy:
Quote from: xs29j8Bullitt on January 16, 2010, 12:11:23 AM
Quote from: 69charger2002 on January 15, 2010, 11:44:42 PM
if it is NOT for sale, then we should NOT be teased good sir!! :nana:
No tease intended... :angel:
It might be available as part of a multi-car trade for a turn-key real Daytona... or could eventually be for sale if I trade the Hemi `Cuda for a turn-key real Daytona... :shruggy:
You never know.... stranger things have happened... Keep the faith........
Quote from: hemi68charger on January 16, 2010, 09:43:42 AM
Quote from: xs29j8Bullitt on January 16, 2010, 12:11:23 AM
Quote from: 69charger2002 on January 15, 2010, 11:44:42 PM
if it is NOT for sale, then we should NOT be teased good sir!! :nana:
No tease intended... :angel:
It might be available as part of a multi-car trade for a turn-key real Daytona... or could eventually be for sale if I trade the Hemi `Cuda for a turn-key real Daytona... :shruggy:
You never know.... stranger things have happened... Keep the faith........
Well, worst case is I keep the `Cuda & Daytona... I could live with that... ;) :D (theres a little tease now :icon_smile_wink: )
No value estimates... did I "stump-the-band"? :shruggy: :lol: :popcrn:
Quote from: xs29j8Bullitt on January 16, 2010, 10:31:07 AM
Quote from: hemi68charger on January 16, 2010, 09:43:42 AM
Quote from: xs29j8Bullitt on January 16, 2010, 12:11:23 AM
Quote from: 69charger2002 on January 15, 2010, 11:44:42 PM
if it is NOT for sale, then we should NOT be teased good sir!! :nana:
No tease intended... :angel:
It might be available as part of a multi-car trade for a turn-key real Daytona... or could eventually be for sale if I trade the Hemi `Cuda for a turn-key real Daytona... :shruggy:
You never know.... stranger things have happened... Keep the faith........
Well, worst case is I keep the `Cuda & Daytona... I could live with that... ;) :D (theres a little tease now :icon_smile_wink: )
No value estimates... did I "stump-the-band"? :shruggy: :lol: :popcrn:
You,,, Allen,,,, Mr. Mopar-of-Ft.Worth, give up the black '68?! Never..............
Quote from: hemi68charger on January 16, 2010, 11:01:28 AM
Quote from: xs29j8Bullitt on January 16, 2010, 10:31:07 AM
Quote from: hemi68charger on January 16, 2010, 09:43:42 AM
Quote from: xs29j8Bullitt on January 16, 2010, 12:11:23 AM
Quote from: 69charger2002 on January 15, 2010, 11:44:42 PM
if it is NOT for sale, then we should NOT be teased good sir!! :nana:
No tease intended... :angel:
It might be available as part of a multi-car trade for a turn-key real Daytona... or could eventually be for sale if I trade the Hemi `Cuda for a turn-key real Daytona... :shruggy:
You never know.... stranger things have happened... Keep the faith........
Well, worst case is I keep the `Cuda & Daytona... I could live with that... ;) :D (theres a little tease now :icon_smile_wink: )
No value estimates... did I "stump-the-band"? :shruggy: :lol: :popcrn:
You,,, Allen,,,, Mr. Mopar-of-Ft.Worth, give up the black '68?! Never..............
:o :o :o OMG... You mis-understood!!! I never said keep
only those two... the three untouchables are Bullitt, SilveRR, & Ole Yeller.
xs29j8Bullitt,
I havn't been on the site for a bit but will make an attempt to help you with a value on your Daytona! I had my earlier post with a starting value and then some percentages to come up with a number. After some healthy discussion with Troy who has a Daytona up for sale I have made some adjustments. I have put more detail in it because of the wide number of variables showing up. My point in all this, is that if we the owners come up with a formula we can help protect each other in buying and selling!! I am open to disussion and fine tuning on this!
$250,000.00 OE RESTORED base 440 auto no console 8 3/4 Daytona
+ 150% 426 HEMI engine ??
+ 12 1/2% 4 speed transmission
+ 2 1/2% Dana rear
+ 2 1/2% console shift
- 30% COMPLETE OE RESTORATION
-15% matching number block ( add back 10% warranty block with papers or 5% no papers or date code block )
-5% date coded engine components ( heads, intake, carb, dist, waterpump hsg, exhaust manifolds and starter )
-10% matching number transmission ( this was lowered for same reason as engine block )
-7 1/2% original broadcast sheet for car ( Should be worth more than fender tag! )
-5% original fender tag
-12 1/2% Daytona specific parts
-3% original nose
-2% nose internals and brackets
-1% original Daytona hood
-1% original Daytona fenders with scoops ( add back 1/2% 70 charger hood and fenders? )
-1/2% windshield deflectors
-1% rear window plug original
-1/2% original rear glass
-1% original rear window trim
-1/2% original trunk lid
-1 1/2% wing with supports
-1/2% special Daytona scissors jack, handle and date coded bumper jack
-7 1/2% original sheetmetal
-1% floor pans
-1% trunk floor with extensions
-1% rear valance with corners and taillight panel
-1% quarter panel bottoms
-1% firewall
-1% frame rails
-1% inner fenders
-1/2% core support
-1% missing interior
-1/2% missing dash
-1% engine bay components including radiator
-5% vin??
I will take a stab at the xs29j8Bullitt Daytona in a seperate post to follow!
Quote from: xs29j8Bullitt on January 16, 2010, 11:43:17 AM
Quote from: hemi68charger on January 16, 2010, 11:01:28 AM
Quote from: xs29j8Bullitt on January 16, 2010, 10:31:07 AM
Quote from: hemi68charger on January 16, 2010, 09:43:42 AM
Quote from: xs29j8Bullitt on January 16, 2010, 12:11:23 AM
Quote from: 69charger2002 on January 15, 2010, 11:44:42 PM
if it is NOT for sale, then we should NOT be teased good sir!! :nana:
No tease intended... :angel:
It might be available as part of a multi-car trade for a turn-key real Daytona... or could eventually be for sale if I trade the Hemi `Cuda for a turn-key real Daytona... :shruggy:
You never know.... stranger things have happened... Keep the faith........
Well, worst case is I keep the `Cuda & Daytona... I could live with that... ;) :D (theres a little tease now :icon_smile_wink: )
No value estimates... did I "stump-the-band"? :shruggy: :lol: :popcrn:
You,,, Allen,,,, Mr. Mopar-of-Ft.Worth, give up the black '68?! Never..............
:o :o :o OMG... You mis-understood!!! I never said keep only those two... the three untouchables are Bullitt, SilveRR, & Ole Yeller.
:smilielol:
That's what I thought.......
So here I go with the xs29j8Bullitt Daytona -
2 1/2% console shift?
5% date coded block
5% date coded engine components?
5% original fender tag
7 1/2% original Daytona components?
3% NOS nose
1/2% internals
1/2% 70 Charger hood/fender add back
1/2% deflectors
1/2% rear glass
1% rear window trim
1% rear plug
1 1/2% rear wing
4% original sheetmetal
1% floor pans
1% trunk floor with extensions
1% rear valance with taillight panel
1% rear quarters
1% interior
1/2% dash
5% vin
Total = 35 1/2% = $88,750.00 Subject to the date coded engine components, console shift and Daytona parts!
Let me know what you guys think! I'll be back late tonight!
Quote from: Mopar John on January 14, 2010, 06:24:55 PM
Troy,
You have your car for sale on Moparts and recently reduced the price from $175,000 to $165,000 to move it. I understand your trying to move up to a 4 speed car? If you use my value and numbers am I in the ballpark on your asking price?
Mopar John
Hey John..
I haven't broken down your numbers on my car yet. We would probably differ though for I would place more emphasis on the fender tag and broadcast sheet over the original block (that's just me). The block can't tell you anything about the car other than it's a Daytona, but the fender tag and/or broadcast sheet can tell you everything about the car sans color of the wing/stripe.
But, roughly speaking on your original percentage breakdown:
-30% OE GOLD restoration
-25% matching engine complete ( block and all date coded parts ) - I'll give 15% since my motor has proper components sans original block.
-15% matching transmission
30% + 15% + 15% = 60% >>> 60% - 100% = 40% of $250,000 = $100,000 ( don't think so )
Since my car is a lot further down the road as far as condition, I can't say the 30%, my car's current condition of an older restoration and turn-key has value.... So, if I add the 30% OE to Allen's $88K minus some dinero since mine's not OE, then I would think it would be in the 160 to 165K, where I'm asking..
taggin' back....
Troy
With very few exceptions (ultra rare color & equipment), I don't think there is a 440 Daytona capable of pulling 250k today. Additionally, I also do not think you can get your money back on the full restoration costs, particularly if you are going "all the way". Just like a home improvement, some things you'll get more back than others. So I think it's more than the simple math.
You can look at benchmarks of cars that have traded. Were they low or high? Then, where do the cars in question fall?
At the end of the day, you can "value" a car at whatever price, but when it comes to a sale, a buyer still has to appear and put their hand up. At the moment, there seems to be a shortage of people willing to buy at a retail number. For these cars, it is probably still a better time to "hold" than to sell.
this Daytona market is crazy!
Im glad Im into the lowly superbird. :icon_smile_blackeye: JK! I wish I picked up a Daytona back then instead,although I guess I didnt because I liked the high impact colors of the birds.
Quote from: FJ5WING on January 16, 2010, 04:35:37 PM
this Daytona market is crazy!
Im glad Im into the lowly superbird. :icon_smile_blackeye: JK! I wish I picked up a Daytona back then instead,although I guess I didnt because I liked the high impact colors of the birds.
Rats,, you should have gotten a V2 'Tona.....
Hey,, Troy,,,,,,,nascar29 all you educated value experts,,,, got a question????? --- give me some kind of a value of my black Daytona? It's NOT FOR SALE I've been ask a lot of times,,,,,just curious,,,,,,
Quote from: 3--Daytona on January 16, 2010, 09:38:47 PM
Hey,, Troy,,,,,,,nascar29 all you educated value experts,,,, got a question????? --- give me some kind of a value of my black Daytona? It's NOT FOR SALE I've been ask a lot of times,,,,,just curious,,,,,,
i'm going to go with johns price of 250k :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: dont take a penny less :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :icon_smile_big:
Quote from: hemi68charger on January 16, 2010, 06:12:28 PM
Rats,, you should have gotten a V2 'Tona.....
hey Troy,
I did try to swindle....I mean get a guy to sell me his daytona which come to think of was a twin to yours. He was the original owner out of Richmond and using the daytona as a regular driver around 1987ish. it was a mess for sure but he said it would never be for sale. :shruggy:
Quote from: 3--Daytona on January 16, 2010, 09:38:47 PM
Hey,, Troy,,,,,,,nascar29 all you educated value experts,,,, got a question????? --- give me some kind of a value of my black Daytona? It's NOT FOR SALE I've been ask a lot of times,,,,,just curious,,,,,,
Hey Jim, me an expert?.... naaaaaa, I just observe, have knowledge on how rare these are (albeit, if I were you, I wouldn't be talking rarity with 3 of them :icon_smile_big: )
Seriously, these are rare cars in any condition. But, having seen yours, seen others of similar and lesser condition, I'd say your was worth every penny of $200 - 250K. I based this on the market of the bigtime brokers like BestofShowAuto, various ads throughout the years and my own personal experience. I do know, that it is ALL RELATIVE to what people will pay or that "one-in-a-million". Then again, I could be totally off. I would be hard pressed to even contemplate what Geno's would be worth. Vance and Geno have done nothing short of creating a Leonardo da Vinci equivalent in Mopar art. It's a masterpiece.
Troy
3--Daytona,
Having put my thoughts on the post I'm with moparstuart $250,000 and not a penny less. Yours is at the top of heap of the 440 cars. I am assuming matching numbers besides my observations of the car parked close by at Tim and Pams museum. Well done and the color combonation won't hurt things either!! Hope your doing well!
Mopar John
Not trying to step on any toes here but here is my :Twocents:
Putting a set price schedule on Daytona's such as this I'm not sure it fits all the time. With this formula my original unrestored Daytona is worth what Troy is asking for his if I understand your formula correctly. It is an F-6 440 car with numbers matching motor and transmission and all original components. Original 8 ¾ rear end, complete with fender tag & correct build sheet. Nose is original complete as is trunk lid and rear glass. Front fenders are 70 Charger but I have a NOS set of 70 Charger fenders to go on the car. Rear quarters need work at the bottom but an NOS set is planned for the car also. Console car also for what it's worth. Basically it is a complete original car that has never been restored but not a true "survivor" either. Car is complete and original with the exceptions being the front fenders and wheels and tires. Even has its original K frame air seal. But it needs restored and I would not rate it as high as Troy's in its current condition. But with this schedule if I am computing properly it's in the 165K range. Basically just deduct the 30% from 250K for not having been restored. Deduct another 3 to 5% if you want because I will replace quarters that could be reworked and incorrect 70 fenders with NOS pieces. I myself don't see the logic in a deduction for that.
I agree with Doug also I don't think these cars are selling in the 250K range right now. When the economy turns around yes but I don't think that price is commonplace now. Also saying a restored Daytona is worth 250k makes every restored Daytona worth 250k in most peoples mind. There are different levels of restoration. As Troy said where does Gene's car fall into this serenario. Having seen the car several times during its restoration I can vouch for the level of work, money and time spent to come up with day one correct parts when reproductions that are close are readily available. I mean how many guys spend 9 months having rubber made for nose air seals because the reproductions are not correct and then replace them with a NOS set. Basically Daytona's are worth what a willing buyer and seller arrive at for a price.
Quote from: Tom Q on January 11, 2010, 11:44:40 PM
What kind of Daytona does $75,000 get me these days??
About 6000 of these! ;)
i personally think wing cars will get back under 6 figures one day when baby boomers and investors leave the scene. certain examples certainly will always fetch more than 6 figures, but there will be "driver" quality daytonas under 100k in a few years, just watch. 2 years ago no one would have thought you could ever get any wing car for under 100k again. there are already plenty of superbirds for sale in the $70-80k range. and not selling.... just my :Twocents:
i know i wouldn't spend $200k on a daytona right now to stare at in the garage and drive around once every few months hoping in 10 years i may turn a profit on it.. no thanks
just wait a couple years, $75000 may get you more than you think.... once the initial "seller shock" of "damn my car's not worth $250k anymore" wears off..
I think my grandfathers old rule would apply here very well It's worth what two fools can agree on!!!!!!
Quote from: 3--Daytona on January 18, 2010, 08:02:43 AM
I think my grandfathers old rule would apply here very well It's worth what two fools can agree on!!!!!!
Reminds me of when someone told Charles Chesier that he turned down a large amount of money for his car (far more than it was worth)... came the reply back "Well son, that's where two fools parted company!" :smilielol:
Quote from: 3--Daytona on January 18, 2010, 08:02:43 AM
I think my grandfathers old rule would apply here very well It's worth what two fools can agree on!!!!!!
Yeap, as long as they are rare, they will always hold "relative" value. Hence, the law of economics kicks in, "Supply and Demand". If those two fools walk away happy, that's all that matters.........
Troy
I personally don't think that the "in vogue" Mopar craze really applies to the wing cars as much as it does other cars. People have had groups and organizations for them for many many years. They are just more special. Now ,where they affected by the rising tide lifts all boat effect? Yes But they will never be dime a dozen cars. IMO
Some recent Daytona parts sales have had me thinking about this post!
1) Daytona rear window trim set on EBAY $2,500! This was right in line on what I was thinking.
The problem was that they didn't look right and was a private bid format so you don't know
what happened? If they were correct what would they have gone for?
2) Daytona rear wing with no braces on Moparts $4,500! This sold real quick even though there
were no wing braces and the mounting studs loooked short to some. Complete with braces
would put it even higher than what I'd thought!
3) Not a Daytona parts sale but an in depth discussion on BROADCAST SHEETS or TRACKING
SHEETS on Moparts. In the discussion it is stated that there is proof that some cars never
had a sheet when it left the factory! There is a lot of backing on a broadcast sheet being of
extra or bonus points in judging! Maybe the same should apply in appraisals?
I just had my clone appraised. I got the sheet back and called the company, I said " you know this is not a real Daytona" The receptionist had the guy who did the appraisal call me back. The guy started with " could you build this identicle car from scratch, to this level for less than I valued it?" I don't think I can, but if some one offered the appraised price, I hope he doesn't do it in front of my wife :eek2: Bottom line, I don't think we can predict what any of these cars will be worth in the future. Makes me glad I have never built or bought any of my cars as an investment. I will enjoy the car Larry built me just as much if I were told it's only worth $20,000 :cheers:
Quote from: 41husk on April 25, 2010, 05:32:27 PM
I just had my clone appraised. I got the sheet back and called the company, I said " you know this is not a real Daytona" The receptionist had the guy who did the appraisal call me back. The guy started with " could you build this identicle car from scratch, to this level for less than I valued it?" I don't think I can, but if some one offered the appraised price, I hope he doesn't do it in front of my wife :eek2: Bottom line, I don't think we can predict what any of these cars will be worth in the future. Makes me glad I have never built or bought any of my cars as an investment. I will enjoy the car Larry built me just as much if I were told it's only worth $20,000 :cheers:
Did the guy that appraised it know that it was a real R/T SE triple black car? To me that makes the car worth more than say a regular 318 base Charger that has been converted since your car could always be converted back to it's correct form if the Daytona clone market should ever tank...which I doubt that it ever will.
If that were to happen, I know the guy that has the original front end, deck lid and back glass stuff for your car in his basement. ;D
Yes, He took the vin asked about thae data plate and seemed to know what he was doing. I would have had a bit more faith in him had he worn something besides a Chevy hat :brickwall:. He interviewed me, I told him I have purchased steering box, turn signal switch, tail light lenses, marker light lenses and stereo. He said he knew of someone who was building replicas and selling them for over $80k :shruggy: Anyone know who that might be? The appraisal was simply for insurance. I went in to my agent Friday dropped off the appraisel and let him take pics of the car for the file. He did not blink an eye at the value. This guy also appraised the 70 Challenger convertible. It came back $500 less than I had it insured for, so I left that the same. It seems like he was right in the ball park on the Challenger. Maybe he knows the values? Either way niether car is for sale.
Quote from: 41husk on April 25, 2010, 07:10:31 PM
Yes, He took the vin asked about thae data plate and seemed to know what he was doing. I would have had a bit more faith in him had he worn something besides a Chevy hat :brickwall:. He interviewed me, I told him I have purchased steering box, turn signal switch, tail light lenses, marker light lenses and stereo. He said he knew of someone who was building replicas and selling them for over $80k :shruggy: Anyone know who that might be? The appraisal was simply for insurance. I went in to my agent Friday dropped off the appraisel and let him take pics of the car for the file. He did not blink an eye at the value. This guy also appraised the 70 Challenger convertible. It came back $500 less than I had it insured for, so I left that the same. It seems like he was right in the ball park on the Challenger. Maybe he knows the values? Either way niether car is for sale.
So what did it appraise at? 20k ? or? Ikinda confused here.
No! I would enjoy it just as much if it had appraised for 20k. It is estimated to be worth a bit more than that. I guess if you take a real R/T SE add nose cone. window plug, fender scoops and wing, add the paint and body work maybe it is appraised close to the value :cheers:
Thats cool,I read that a couple times and just wasnt quite sure what you were saying.
So what did it appraise at? 20k ? or? Ikinda confused here.
[/quote]
Generaly when they appraise clones, the base car, regardless of it's "heritage"....wether it be a /6 car or 440/6, plain jane, R/T, etc originaly, plays little value in the overall appraisial, the clone has undergone a new transformation, and is appraised on the quality of the car and combination of it's parts, current driveline, etc,....current market value can be used to increase the value of the appraisial, should you think it's too low, but you need to show "evidence" of the current market value from other sources, like auctions, or Ebay sales, etc,...only sales made
Generally the apprasial is based on what it takes to replace the vehicle in the current market, generally all the clones I built for myself and customers have allways appraised for a minimum of $75K-$100K,.....and the vehicles have ranged from 318 to U code 440 cars......but keep in mind the car must present itself as a quality build to obtain a high appraisial also
Make sure to get an AGREED policy, a STATED policy will leave you out in the cold if you have a complete loss, an AGREED policy is the total loss/appraised value you and your Insurance company have AGREED on,....a STATED policy will be turned on you if you need to collect on a total loss, that's when the Insurance company claims your clone was a 318 car and wants to adjust the policy to reflect that, .....an AGREED policy leaves no room for the Insurance company to back out of the AGREED amount of loss
Mike
Im sorry I seem to know exactly what I want to say when I type it, but often after it's posted and I read it I'm not sure what I am saying :brickwall:
I have an agreed value but State Farm requested I have two published values ie. Old cars collector guide and hemmings. I couldnt find a publication that listed a replicas value. My insurance Co. gave me a list of appraisors and told me a professional appraiser replaces published values. I simply called the cheepest Company they listed. I have been around Mopars all my life and I think I could buy a real wing car for there appraised value, not a Daytona but a Bird and not as nice as my clone, of course.
Quote from: 41husk on April 25, 2010, 08:14:43 PM
I have an agreed value but State Farm requested I have two published values ie. Old cars collector guide and hemmings. I couldnt find a publication that listed a replicas value. My insurance Co. gave me a list of appraisors and told me a professional appraiser replaces published values. I simply called the cheepest Company they listed. I have been around Mopars all my life and I think I could buy a real wing car for there appraised value, not a Daytona but a Bird and not as nice as my clone, of course.
I insured the birdible for 55k agreed value , they wanted me to insure it for more ,but i figured I could build it again for that so they said ok . Some of the companys said it was a modified car and wanted to charge me double to insure it .
...just throwing it out there. :cheers:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,63373.0.html (http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,63373.0.html)
Quote from: 1972Rallye on April 30, 2010, 01:25:16 PM
...just throwing it out there. :cheers:
Why? is it still for sale?
Quote from: 1972Rallye on April 30, 2010, 01:53:21 PM
Quote from: hemi68charger on April 30, 2010, 01:49:45 PM
Quote from: 1972Rallye on April 30, 2010, 01:25:16 PM
...just throwing it out there. :cheers:
Why? is it still for sale?
Yes... surprisingly :shruggy:
Has he fixed the items that need addressing, like the engine compartment details, heater hoses, etc and is he still looking to get 169K? Is the rear window trim there or is it missing? Looks gone in the photos........
Quote from: hemi68charger on April 30, 2010, 01:58:34 PM
Quote from: 1972Rallye on April 30, 2010, 01:53:21 PM
Quote from: hemi68charger on April 30, 2010, 01:49:45 PM
Quote from: 1972Rallye on April 30, 2010, 01:25:16 PM
...just throwing it out there. :cheers:
Why? is it still for sale?
Yes... surprisingly :shruggy:
Has he fixed the items that need addressing, like the engine compartment details, heater hoses, etc and is he still looking to get 169K? Is the rear window trim there or is it missing? Looks gone in the photos........
As far as I know, everything is still as it shows in the photos. The heater core started to leak, so he simply by-passed the core - that's why they're missing. Honestly, he drives his cars more than he shows them, but he said he would gladly put one in if it became an issue. The original rear window trim
is missing, a black substitute was installed just to have something there. The jacks and spare were stolen at a car show. :icon_smile_angry: Kris is a straight-shooter and will not misrepresent anything...
I just talked to him and his asking price is still $169,000
Quote from: 1972Rallye on April 30, 2010, 02:20:10 PM
...The jacks and spare were stolen at a car show. :icon_smile_angry: ...
double :icon_smile_angry: Some people have too much gall..........
This is a good example of a car priced high (for todays market) that you have to say "Yeah, but..."
It's a nice car, but, the rear window trim is missing...
It's a nice car, but the scissors jack is missing...
It's a nice car, but it's not the original engine...
It's a nice car, but it needs a heater core (and what else?)...
I'm sure it's a good car, but when you have to start saying these things over and over, it's not a surprise it hasn't sold at 169k. Then, again, he not be motivated to sell either. At the very least, the easier things like the jacks, spare and heater core should be dealt with. I'm not down on the car. Just sayin...
Quote from: Aero426 on April 30, 2010, 03:40:20 PM
This is a good example of a car priced high (for todays market) that you have to say "Yeah, but..."
I'll have to agree with Doug on this one..... My Daytona has all it's original sheetmetal and pretty much has everything except the original drivetrain.. It wouldn't even bring $110K, albeit I wasn't really pushing it either....
Troy
Quote from: Aero426 on April 30, 2010, 03:40:20 PM
This is a good example of a car priced high (for todays market) that you have to say "Yeah, but..."
It's a nice car, but, the rear window trim is missing...
It's a nice car, but the scissors jack is missing...
It's a nice car, but it's not the original engine...
It's a nice car, but it needs a heater core (and what else?)...
I'm sure it's a good car, but when you have to start saying these things over and over, it's not a surprise it hasn't sold at 169k. Then, again, he not be motivated to sell either. At the very least, the easier things like the jacks, spare and heater core should be dealt with. I'm not down on the car. Just sayin...
Understood...The detail stuff is what's going to jump out to real buyers and this car is lacking in the areas discussed. If I could get my hands on it for a couple weeks... it would be ready to go, but it's his car, his price. :shruggy:
Quote from: hemi68charger on April 30, 2010, 06:28:12 PM
I'll have to agree with Doug on this one..... My Daytona has all it's original sheetmetal and pretty much has everything except the original drivetrain.. It wouldn't even bring $110K, albeit I wasn't really pushing it either....
Troy
Good info that I'll share with him next time I see him. We're going to have a treasure hunt (he's never looked for the broadcast sheet).
That would be great to see if you can find something under the seat.
Y'know...maybe the price is high because he knows it high. We probably all have our "stupid money" price. The price where someone would be stupid to offer and we'd be stupid to turn down.
Then again, there are those folks who think they have solid gold on wheels.....
Quote from: Kismgby on May 01, 2010, 11:50:23 AM
Then again, there are those folks who think they have solid gold on wheels.....
I have a pumpkin on wheels...... :icon_smile_big:
Interesting thread. Based on where the car market has gone and now seemingly came back down to it seems to me that the DAYTONA's out there for sale have been for quite some time. And the majority of those seem to be owned by the flipper types who need to get what they paid for them hence the no sales.
Has anyone heard of any recent sales, say the last three months or so?
Dave
this one is in town if anyone wants some unbiased pics or something, after readin the full description i realised its in NJ, the web seller is here in vagas, but i don't think its worth the asking price after reading this thread..........
http://www.classiccars.com/111482.car
here's another one
http://www.classiccars.com/Classifieds/Listing.aspx?data=2A0A4BC2D6578D6DB4AC02EC4C11FBF637C94948E3CB675CE5B20D7EBB7FECCA1F292874E35DEEF108BEBB2EBA640DAE0D3234464EAFEDF543A3E2F4398EE59E40942ACB82CDF70FE252B7127D289236C9490D7561924EA05AAC9991DBC384F3&cs=11
I don't know what's selling, but there's no interest in mine at even $165K... (for all the doomsdayers, there's another Daytona I'm interested in)... It'll be interesting to see where they go.......
Is that blue 4-speed Daytona still for sale for $125k?
Troy I am not expecting you to say which Daytona you looking to buy but is it being advertised as well?
Or is the guy holding on to it for you?
Dave
Quote from: Beep Beep Dave on August 01, 2010, 08:32:31 PM
Is that blue 4-speed Daytona still for sale for $125k?
Troy I am not expecting you to say which Daytona you looking to buy but is it being advertised as well?
Or is the guy holding on to it for you?
Dave
The B5 4-speed is sold, recently......... The other Daytona is a friend of mine that's not advertising. Out of respect for him as well, not telling..... I'll just say it's closer in color configuration to the one my late father bought new...
Quote
The B5 4-speed is sold, recently......... The other Daytona is a friend of mine that's not advertising. Out of respect for him as well, not telling..... I'll just say it's closer in color configuration to the one my late father bought new...
Any idea what the B5 car went for Troy?
Dave
Quote from: Beep Beep Dave on August 01, 2010, 11:14:02 PM
Quote
The B5 4-speed is sold, recently......... The other Daytona is a friend of mine that's not advertising. Out of respect for him as well, not telling..... I'll just say it's closer in color configuration to the one my late father bought new...
Any idea what the B5 car went for Troy?
Dave
I would assume the asking price of 135K.. That's what was offered to me and he pretty much stuck to his guns (As I would have done too.) Very nice car with all original sheetmetal.
This green car I believe was $139K ever sell
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,68389.0.html