Herer is my dilema I am going to be making a 70 Charger into a Daytona clone. I have all the parts and even the Vega hatch. First offf I really like the way the origional real window looks and I am not trying to pass this off as a real Daytona eithier. how ever I would like the challange of putting the plug in the rear window. But here is the real dilima I decoded the car finally and although none of the origional drive trian is there it was a 383 car with air Bronze with burnt orange interior and The real reason I don't want to hack up the top is because it is an origional Gator Grain top. Wouldn't a 70 charger gator grain top Daytona be cool in it own right? What are you guys opinions and gals
Dont call it a Daytona if you dont install plug !
Quote from: daytonalo on October 06, 2008, 07:58:13 PM
Dont call it a Daytona if you dont install plug !
never would be a daytona anyways just a daytona clone ;)
A 70 charger in bronze with a burnt orange interior and a gator grain vinyl top would be a wicked unique combo,add a daytona nose,wing and fender scoops and itd be a stunner 4 sure :coolgleamA:
the top is $1200 from Legendary--cloud your vision a bit?
"unplugged" daytonas have a habit of looking unfinished. it's a lot of work, I know, but I think you'd be happier in the end.
We just got a B3/B5/V1G T/A at work today and I love it! the top's so cool~
Installing the plug doesn't mean it's permanent. You only cut out two small pieces in the side drip rails and they can be re-installed later. I wouldn't have altered my R/T SE if it had meant that it couldn't be returned to original. Get a different deck lid to alter and save your original.
I went through this same thought process with my clone.
If you don't do it, you'll never be completely satisfied.
doing the back window would make it look like a daytona..but it's lots of work and after doing one..I would never do another...the window plug is a make it or brake it point...do what you like the car will look good both ways... :popcrn: :popcrn:
Quoteunplugged" daytonas have a habit of looking unfinished.
hack it up . PLUG IT :faint:
I would rather do 10 more rear window plugs than go through the crap I've gone through to get the nosecone/fenders/headlights to all fit and work together properly. I almost done now, getting close... I'll never do it again :brickwall: I'll fix this car if something happens to it, but I will NEVER build another wing car clone again :flame:
By the way the '70 that I hacked up for the fenders and hood WAS a 1970 500 SE 383 4bbl with a GATOR GRAIN TOP :hack:
The 69 Charger that I'm building my clone out of is an original 69 R/T SE :hack:
I wouldn't worry about putting it back to original someday-Do what pleases you now. Don't worry about tommorrow--it may never come.
After all-these cars ain't million dollar Duesenbergs....they're DODGES!
Quote from: BigBlockSam on October 06, 2008, 10:18:03 PM
Quoteunplugged" daytonas have a habit of looking unfinished.
hack it up . PLUG IT :faint:
Damn skippy!
I'll agree that installing the plug was by far easier than making the nose fit right and the headlamps work properly.
By the sounds of things i would go a gator top and rear wing only.
hmmm it would be a tough decision for me , but can't have a daytona with out the flush rear glass , just not right :rotz:
how rare are these 70 chargers with Gator grains :scratchchin: .. :popcrn:
put the plug in it ! :2thumbs:
I never liked the look of the rear window plug in the Daytona, & I have no intention of going through the work or the expense to add something to a car that I'm not crazy about. I know it'll bug me to some degree that the car won't look correct, but it is my car & I'm the last person to worry about correctness, or what other people think. (Been driving a 69 Satellite convertible with a 70 GTX nose for over 20 years) If you go ahead with your conversion & add the wing & the nose, you could do all but the plug for now & see how you like it. Add the plug later if you lose sleep, or there is a hole in your heart, or if you can't stand listening to the criticism.
Git'er Dun !!!
Quote from: Old Moparz on October 07, 2008, 09:15:01 AM
or if you can't stand listening to the criticism.
that'll probably be the worst part.
QuoteI would rather do 10 more rear window plugs than go through the crap I've gone through to get the nosecone/fenders/headlights to all fit
:yesnod: . truly a pain in the ass .
We see enough half-baked clone cars out there, go big or go home...
Quote from: nakita7 on October 07, 2008, 12:16:55 PM
We see enough half-baked clone cars out there, go big or go home...
:yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod:
Quote from: pettybird on October 07, 2008, 10:25:55 AM
Quote from: Old Moparz on October 07, 2008, 09:15:01 AM
or if you can't stand listening to the criticism.
that'll probably be the worst part.
:lol: Maybe a quick mounting, pin on one, will shut them up.
or cut the top off completely
Quote from: Old Moparz on October 07, 2008, 12:53:21 PM
Quote from: pettybird on October 07, 2008, 10:25:55 AM
Quote from: Old Moparz on October 07, 2008, 09:15:01 AM
or if you can't stand listening to the criticism.
that'll probably be the worst part.
:lol: Maybe a quick mounting, pin on one, will shut them up.
how about rear window louvers? seriously--think about it! full size trunklid, plug appearance...it would fool a lot of people!
it would be nice to keep a fullsize trunk lid !!!!!
I didnt put stops on the birdibles trunk lid , may chop my finger tips off someday , but dammit i can get in my trunk ,except when it on the freakin rollback :smilielol:
Quote from: moparstuart on October 07, 2008, 12:28:56 PM
Quote from: nakita7 on October 07, 2008, 12:16:55 PM
We see enough half-baked clone cars out there, go big or go home...
:yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod:
:yesnod: :slap: ............... :2thumbs:
Quotehow about rear window louvers?
and sidepipes , i almost put sidepipes on mine .
Quote from: BigBlockSam on October 07, 2008, 03:40:24 PM
Quotehow about rear window louvers?
and sidepipes , i almost put sidepipes on mine .
no no no low rider boy no :slap: :slap: :slap: :smilielol:
Personally I think it looks like the easy (cheap) way out. Sorta like exhaust coming out in front of the rear wheels. :Twocents:
If Larry has the cajones to do it to a triple black car, should make it easier on other folks' conscience.
I wouldn't have traded for Dane's old car if it didn't have the Vega hatch. But these are just my opinions. You gotta do whatever you feel right about.
Quote from: moparstuart on October 07, 2008, 01:45:07 PM
it would be nice to keep a fullsize trunk lid !!!!!
I didnt put stops on the birdibles trunk lid , may chop my finger tips off someday , but dammit i can get in my trunk ,except when it on the freakin rollback :smilielol:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: You need a ladder to get in your trunk.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- mike d style
I would put the plug in
and add the gator grain top! Nobody mentioned this yet did they? :2thumbs:
:hack: :buff: plug it. :yesnod:
It's funny reading my old posts from back when I was trying to decide what to do with my future clone project. No plug, yes plug, headlamps in grille opening, working headlamps, fiberglass wing, aluminum wing, etc., etc.,etc.. The only thing short of being the ultimate is the fiberglass nose and that's subject to an eventual upgrade.
Do the plug...you know you want it. :icon_smile_big:
Maybe you should look at it from this point.
Do you have a headliner/window trim in and outside/package tray?
If you need to buy these items anyway,the difference in pricing is not a huge amount.
I actually went the other way.I built a plug(with daytona glass in mind).I was not happy the way the upper section turned out.So instead of redoing it I just cut it all out.All the stock charger items I needed were already purchased and sitting here.Mine will not be a stock looking car anyway so no big deal on the plug.
We all want the plug !
Quote from: moparstuart on October 07, 2008, 01:45:07 PM
it would be nice to keep a fullsize trunk lid
My plug goes between the sail panels and ends at the trunklid's forward opening. It looks cool and the roofline isn't spoiled from a side-view. As an added bonus, the (full size) spare tire is fairly easily removed from the trunk.
Quote from: PocketThunder on October 07, 2008, 06:38:20 PM
I would put the plug in and add the gator grain top! Nobody mentioned this yet did they? :2thumbs:
No, no one has mentioned it, but someone IS trying to do it! A few months ago Legendary was "looking into" stitching up a custom fit Gator Grain top for my car. I'm not sure if they are still "looking into" that or if they flat-out decided it wasn't worth the effort to sell one top.
Quote from: kab69440 on October 08, 2008, 12:34:12 PM
Quote from: moparstuart on October 07, 2008, 01:45:07 PM
it would be nice to keep a fullsize trunk lid
My plug goes between the sail panels and ends at the trunklid's forward opening. It looks cool and the roofline isn't spoiled from a side-view. As an added bonus, the (full size) spare tire is fairly easily removed from the trunk.
Quote from: PocketThunder on October 07, 2008, 06:38:20 PM
I would put the plug in and add the gator grain top! Nobody mentioned this yet did they? :2thumbs:
No, no one has mentioned it, but someone IS trying to do it! A few months ago Legendary was "looking into" stitching up a custom fit Gator Grain top for my car. I'm not sure if they are still "looking into" that or if they flat-out decided it wasn't worth the effort to sell one top.
we need pictures of your custom plug !
Quote from: moparstuart on October 08, 2008, 12:36:35 PM
we need pictures of your custom plug !
Quote
I've posted/linked pics in several different threads. Since I can't remember which ones, specifically... I guess I'll just re-link from photobucket.com.(http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q317/kab69440/mycar5.jpg)
(http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q317/kab69440/mycar9.jpg)
(http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q317/kab69440/carpost3.jpg)
Quote from: kab69440 on October 08, 2008, 12:46:46 PM
Quote from: moparstuart on October 08, 2008, 12:36:35 PM
we need pictures of your custom plug !
Quote
I've posted/linked pics in several different threads. Since I can't remember which ones, specifically... I guess I'll just re-link from photobucket.com.(http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q317/kab69440/mycar5.jpg)
(http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q317/kab69440/mycar9.jpg)
(http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q317/kab69440/carpost3.jpg)
so is that a stock back glass, or what did you use ?
Believe it, or not... That used to be an AMC Hornet wagon liftgate. Get this, the backlight was sourced from PPG, as was Chrysler's glass. The people that do notice the change and question whether or not it belongs there are usually stumped by that etching in the lower corner. It's pretty amusing to watch Mr. Knowitall suddenly become speechless.
Quote from: kab69440 on October 08, 2008, 12:52:03 PM
Believe it, or not... That used to be an AMC Hornet wagon liftgate.
creative !!!
Quote from: kab69440 on October 08, 2008, 12:52:03 PM
Believe it, or not... That used to be an AMC Hornet wagon liftgate. Get this, the backlight was sourced from PPG, as was Chrysler's glass. The people that do notice the change and question whether or not it belongs there are usually stumped by that etching in the lower corner. It's pretty amusing to watch Mr. Knowitall suddenly become speechless.
You know, the Hornet set up looks a bit odd, but I also think that it doesn't look that bad. (Still a lot of work) The small areas at the bottom of each sail panel look a lot like the Nissan Maxima did the last body style before the current one. (2004 to 2006 I think). I like the execution, nice work. :2thumbs:
Well thanks for all the suggestions. I did think about the gator grain top with the plug but i don't know if it would come with enough material to cover the plug and where would I find some kind of trim to seperate it like on a vynial top car? anysogestons on that. What did a superbird have?
The superbird used the original side vinyl top moldings and the diamonds were cast to include the filler or completer piece to fill in the gap.
Thanks for you input guys. I know the tops are 1200.00 and I just thought I would save that expense for last. That way I would buy it. Would legendary make a top for a daytona with the window plug? and if so how would I trim it off since regular charger trim would no longer work? I will also give the louver idea some thought. By the way what year vega hatches work or do they all and couold anyone give me some threads where someone has some pics, measurementsand tips on what to do and what not to do when installing a window plug. Thanks again
My :Twocents:. it really depends either one your skills or how deep your wallet is, either way it's still a clone. Sorry guys , I'm just not a fan of clones.
Ok, flame suit :coolgleamA: is now on
YOU MUST BE RICH AND CAN AFFORD A REAL ONE OR THE SKILL OF ONE OF JERRY'S KIDS AND CAN'T BUILD ONE !! WHICH IS IT ?
well I am the kind of guy that still turns his head when l look at a doctored up charger or a doctored up pair of, :rotz: :rotz: They just seem to grab your attention anyway. :drool5:
Quoteeither way it's still a clone.
you forgot to put , only a clone.
:dance:
FOR THE RECORD---------------------------I :icon_smile_big:'M BACK FOR THE WINTER , I MISSED YOU GUY'S AND I'M SURE YOU FEEL THE SAME ABOUT ME !!!!!!!!!!
Oh crap. :brickwall:
:icon_smile_big:
Quote from: daytonalo on October 11, 2008, 12:04:15 AM
FOR THE RECORD---------------------------I :icon_smile_big:'M BACK FOR THE WINTER , I MISSED YOU GUY'S AND I'M SURE YOU FEEL THE SAME ABOUT ME !!!!!!!!!!
NOT REALLY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
welcome home Larry. :2thumbs:
So...what are the plans for the clone? Is the project back on or did you sell it?
No plans , it is just sitting in the corner collecting dust . I just started an Escavating Business so I'm very busy and next up is my boat
Quote from: tan top on October 07, 2008, 05:49:04 AM
how rare are these 70 chargers with Gator grains :scratchchin: .. :popcrn:
Only around 4% of 70 Chargers came with the gator grain roof so it's a fairly rare option.
I have one thought here -
The way AMD is cranking out new Charger sheetmetal, I wonder if eventually they tool up a legit steel reproduction of the C500/Daytona window plug.
Interesting thought there Mike. Perhaps some of the clone builders need to rally together and fire them off enough e-mails to make them at least consider a business plan for it.
If they did they would have to sell them for 5000 eaxh to recover tooling cost , they might sell 10
I asked about the possibility of some new parts for barracuda converts and they said "not likely". And, there are a lot more cuda converts out there than 500/daytonas.
I think. :scratchchin:
It's hard to know.
Off the cuff, I don't think it would make economic sense to do a C500/Daytona steel plug either. But 5 years ago I would have collapsed with laughter if you'd told me somebody would be repoping 1/2 of what AMD is currently working on.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is the C500/Daytona glass itself being repop'd by anybody these days? As long as it is, I think I'd just do whatever it takes to make a steel plug to fit it. F*ck fiberglass and F*ck the other cars' plugs.
The big problem I see with other plugs is that modern windows don't look like that at all. Even with the Vega or something else to use, it's probably a matter of time before even THOSE glass/steel/trim parts become so rare & worn out that you don't want the used ones anymore. So then you'd be stuck in almost as much trouble with rare/unreproduced parts as if you'd gone after a legit C500/Daytona plug.
Another idea:
I wonder if maybe a plug could be produced if it was stamped & sold in several smaller pieces, and then welded together by the installer? I suspect it would kill a lot of tooling costs if the job didn't require a single huge stamping that's almost the size of a Charger's hood like the original plug.
Even just a small run of these parts would probably keep the C500/Daytona hobby supplied for years. The install would take some metal work, but it seems like anyone even attempting this stuff has to be pretty good at it to begin with.
And with the 40yo Chargers we're working with as raw materials, the bodies are so different in tolerances that I doubt any one single metal plug stamping would ever reliably fit without some serious "adjusting" anyway. Those plugs fit onto an area of the car with a whole bunch of different panels coming together.
The glass is available for around a grand, inc shipping. The moldings are not available. They have to be fabbed up from other moldings and look okay, but not exact.
As for making the plug in pieces, that would mean making four different dies at a bare bones minimun of 20-30k per die if done locally and those die sets are usually good for around 100 parts before they're too worn to use any longer.
I'll bet that there's some sheet metal shop somewhere that would make these by hand for a grand a piece and it would probably be a better part.
QuoteI'll bet that there's some sheet metal shop somewhere that would make these by hand for a grand a piece and it would probably be a better part.
Probably true. It might cost a couple grand, but it would still probably be the best option.
Same with a steel nosecone.
Every once in a while the subject of rear window plugs, glass and trim comes up on this forum.
I've been through this process. After screwing around with a fiberglass plug, considering the vega hatch alternative, and giving serious thought to just leaving the stock rear window in place, I just made my own steel plug. It took a lot of time, but technically speaking it wasn't that tough.
The nose cone and headlight install/adjustment is a much more aggravating job, in my opinion.
Some light reading on the subject for the newbies:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,10669.0.html
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,21596.0.html
what did you do for trim ? i am going to need some stock style rear window trim for a future project , not my current daytona vega hatch project .
Quote from: moparstuart on October 14, 2008, 06:12:32 PM
what did you do for trim ?
Stuart...All is revealed here :
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,21596.0.html
Quote from: Daytona R/T SE on October 14, 2008, 05:25:47 PM
Every once in a while the subject of rear window plugs, glass and trim comes up on this forum.
I've been through this process. After screwing around with a fiberglass plug, considering the vega hatch alternative, and giving serious thought to just leaving the stock rear window in place, I just made my own steel plug. It took a lot of time, but technically speaking it wasn't that tough.
The nose cone and headlight install/adjustment is a much more aggravating job, in my opinion.
Some light reading on the subject for the newbies:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,10669.0.html
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,21596.0.html
You ever consider making those steel plugs to sell ? They would sell quick at a grand a piece. ;D
Quote from: hotrod98 on October 14, 2008, 09:53:13 PM
Quote from: Daytona R/T SE on October 14, 2008, 05:25:47 PM
Every once in a while the subject of rear window plugs, glass and trim comes up on this forum.
I've been through this process. After screwing around with a fiberglass plug, considering the vega hatch alternative, and giving serious thought to just leaving the stock rear window in place, I just made my own steel plug. It took a lot of time, but technically speaking it wasn't that tough.
The nose cone and headlight install/adjustment is a much more aggravating job, in my opinion.
Some light reading on the subject for the newbies:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,10669.0.html
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,21596.0.html
You ever consider making those steel plugs to sell ? They would sell quick at a grand a piece. ;D
Larry,
I'm still trying to get my car done! ::)
Progress has been slow :brickwall:
Although, late at night when I have visions of crate Hemis dancing in my head...the thought of whoring myself out making just enough window plugs to finance a Hemi for my clone DOES come to mind......
NAAAAAAHHHHHH! :nana: :nana: :nana:
Talk about slow. I finally had to move the clone to the front shop so that I could get more customer work out. I would go out to the shop to work on their cars and end up working on mine. You can't pay the bills that way.
My goal is to have the clone finished before the end of the year.
Quote from: Daytona R/T SE on October 14, 2008, 09:48:42 PM
Quote from: moparstuart on October 14, 2008, 06:12:32 PM
what did you do for trim ?
Stuart...All is revealed here :
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,21596.0.html
awesome , I know your working on your endless project , but i would gladly pay you to make me a set also.
I am not in a big hurry for it as this is a long term project . You are so skilled !!!!