Anyone running the borgenson steering box how do you like it did you have to change hoses power steering pump was it worth it??? How did it change the cars feel? Thanks!!!!
Pretty sure you have to buy their high-pressure hose kit, adapter fittings, and don't forget the column coupler/adapter. All in all, if you're looking to improve or modernize your steering this sounds like a great alternative. I like the built-in quick ratio steering; that's probably going to the deciding factor in my ongoing Firm Feel/Borgeson debate...
Borgeson is a 14 to 1 ratio. Firm Feel mopar box with the fast ratio arms is about 12 to 1. My Firm Feel Stage 3 box feels really good. The Borgeson with the fast ratio arms would surely make the ratio too twitchy at approx 10.3 to 1.
10.3 to 1 lol! Borgeson for the win. Unless you're Kern Dog, you can't run headers with a stock style box and fast ratio idle/pitman arms...
Oh, come on! I'm not special. I think the guys at TTI are playing it safe telling people that the FR arms don't fit. It isn't any benefit to me if anyone believes me on this. I get no commission on their sales. I have had no steering fitment issues with either of the 2 K members I've had in the car.
Quote from: Kern Dog on November 07, 2015, 01:14:39 AM
Oh, come on! I'm not special. I think the guys at TTI are playing it safe telling people that the FR arms don't fit. It isn't any benefit to me if anyone believes me on this. I get no commission on their sales. I have had no steering fitment issues with either of the 2 K members I've had in the car.
No I DO believe you. I just think you're one of the lucky ones that can get away with that setup. There are others that have tried and couldn't do it; I never took the chance to find out. I love the headers anyway...
I have a borguson box..love it..feels more like a modern car now..makes my power steering in my Dart feel like a scary joke.
I do have the fast ratio arms..which I might change out cuz when my steering is turned all the way to the right the center link touches my oil pan. It's worth noting that my 6.1 oil pan is somewhat different than a big block or small block pan so it might not be a prob for others.
Is it worth $700? I think so, but I was looking for a new car feel.
If you have power steering and you want it to be firmer without paying big bucks, buy a PS pressure valve and it goes inline on your pressure hose..you can turn down the ps psi and it firms it up.
Myk,
when I can afford it , borgason for me too ,
will eliminate that last area of slop in steering, not that I can feel anything now, but I want the extra clearance for bigger headers ,
friends of mine were right , my 1 7/8 are shutting her down at top end ,
when I look up there site, I cant find the mopar proper adapter,
I'm sure I saw it in one of the mag's mopar action or muscle,
it eliminates it being such a hack job to shaft,
I don't like the idea of cutting inner shaft,
you do this and you cant ever change it back
Quote from: fy469rtse on November 11, 2015, 04:59:45 PM
Myk,
when I can afford it , borgason for me too ,
will eliminate that last area of slop in steering, not that I can feel anything now, but I want the extra clearance for bigger headers ,
friends of mine were right , my 1 7/8 are shutting her down at top end ,
when I look up there site, I cant find the mopar proper adapter,
I'm sure I saw it in one of the mag's mopar action or muscle,
it eliminates it being such a hack job to shaft,
I don't like the idea of cutting inner shaft,
you do this and you cant ever change it back
The coupler that keeps you from having to cut the column is on the Bergman Autocraft website, not the Borgeson. The coupler is an aftermarket piece made my Bergman. All in all, the Borgeson and Bergman parts will run you a little more than $700, but still worth it IMO...
Can you post a link to this coupler
http://bergmanautocraft.com/proddetail.php?prod=5-0010
I'd have to drive a car with the Borgeson unit before laying out the cash. I have heard about 80% to 20% of the buyers that are happy with them. I have a well sorted out setup currently so I am less motivated to make the switch than I would be if I had all worn out stuff.
Quote from: Kern Dog on November 12, 2015, 09:09:03 PM
I'd have to drive a car with the Borgeson unit before laying out the cash. I have heard about 80% to 20% of the buyers that are happy with them. I have a well sorted out setup currently so I am less motivated to make the switch than I would be if I had all worn out stuff.
What issues did these people have?
Besides the few people with fitment problems, some have reported that the Borgeson didn't seem much better than a well built Firm Feel chuck. The cost is about double or more, so I understand the higher expectations.
Quote from: Kern Dog on November 13, 2015, 03:33:17 AM
Besides the few people with fitment problems, some have reported that the Borgeson didn't seem much better than a well built Firm Feel chuck. The cost is about double or more, so I understand the higher expectations.
I feel the same way. For the extra cost and hassle I would expect the Charger to drive and feel like a completely different car. I guess the weight savings would then be the only advantage but I don't know if that alone is worth the extra money. Fitment problems? Ugh...here we go again... :icon_smile_blackeye:
So this? http://www.jegs.com/i/Borgeson/153/800126/10002/-1?parentProductId=3132864#moreDetails
Yes, but buy the special coupler from Bergman Autocraft so you don't have to cut your column. Don't forget you'll have to buy their high pressure hose adapters also...
An aluminum version of the stock Mopar PS case + a 14:1 pitman & idler arm set for it. IMO this would have accomplished mostly the same thing as the Borgeson box coversion for less trouble. That would please everyone in the B/E/C crowd, although the A-body crowd might still like the Borgeson box's header clearance improvement.
How does the borgenson box work on our cars with the lower pressure that our pump puts out would they perform better with a high pressure pump?
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on November 13, 2015, 12:40:46 PM
An aluminum version of the stock Mopar PS case + a 14:1 pitman & idler arm set for it. IMO this would have accomplished mostly the same thing as the Borgeson box coversion for less trouble. That would please everyone in the B/E/C crowd, although the A-body crowd might still like the Borgeson box's header clearance improvement.
Nobody has ever made an aluminum case for the power steering unit.
Quote from: Kern Dog on November 13, 2015, 10:38:29 PM
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on November 13, 2015, 12:40:46 PM
An aluminum version of the stock Mopar PS case + a 14:1 pitman & idler arm set for it. IMO this would have accomplished mostly the same thing as the Borgeson box coversion for less trouble. That would please everyone in the B/E/C crowd, although the A-body crowd might still like the Borgeson box's header clearance improvement.
Nobody has ever made an aluminum case for the power steering unit.
Not only that, but again the stock box dimensions will not allow headers for most of us. I refuse to be forced to choose between the two mods lol...
QuoteNobody has ever made an aluminum case for the power steering unit.
Yeah I know. Nor has anyone ever made a 14:1 arms for the stock PS box, AFAIK.
I was saying it in the sense that I wish those things did exist.
Header clearance? I imagine the Borgeson box would help on A-bodies. But plenty of people already use headers with stock PS boxes on the B/E cars.
The Fast Ratio arms for the standard Mopar P/S unit essentially result in approx 12 ro 1 ratio, down from 15.7 to 1.
How does a 2nd gen feel with the fast ratio arm compared to stock? City and highway. I have a reinforced k member and will run the offset uca bushings to increase caster. I'm wondering if I need the fast ratio stuff as well. 245 wide tires up front. Also shimming the power steering box.
I have only tried the fast ratio arms with the rebuilt stage 3 steering box. This makes the setup about as firm as you can get without touching the pump. reducing the pressure from the pump by way of the shim method is another way to go. I tried it in my BILs 72 Duster but I guess I need a thicker shim pack because it didn't seem to feel any different.
Mine feels much firmer than stock. Some might have a little trouble maneuvering at slow speeds. It isn't as precise as the steering in my 2015 Challenger R/T but I'd say it is the best of all the classic cars that I have driven.
The Fast Ratio arms make the 15.7 ratio (Stock) down to around 12 to 1. The lower the first number, the harder it is to steer but the faster the response.
Good to know, thanks!
So I guess the only possible downside would be that the response at higher speeds could cause the car to change lanes a bit quicer than usual? With a 12 to 1 that should be something to get used to easily I would think.
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on November 14, 2015, 11:20:18 AM
QuoteNobody has ever made an aluminum case for the power steering unit.
Yeah I know. Nor has anyone ever made a 14:1 arms for the stock PS box, AFAIK.
I was saying it in the sense that I wish those things did exist.
Header clearance? I imagine the Borgeson box would help on A-bodies. But plenty of people already use headers with stock PS boxes on the B/E cars.
I'm referring to headers AND fast ratio arms; 99% of us can't run those mods simultaneously...
What about giving the headers a "heat up and whack" dimpling around the steering linkage areas? Is the fit so tight it cannot be made to work?
It's my understanding that the tubes block the linkage to the point that you can't even turn the steering wheel at a point where it's useful. Personally speaking, if there's a way I can get fast ratio and not ding a single tube that's what I want; with the Doug's headers they went in without a single ding also...
My mechanic is having issues installing the borgeson box with TTi headers on my 528 RB HEMI. Any ideas or solutions?? Worst case I guess one would have to dent the headers slightly, but I am not too inclined to do that, although I saw a video that showed that it had no effect on performance. Would appreciate any useful feedback. Thx.
Quote from: charlie45 on March 25, 2018, 04:30:56 AM
My mechanic is having issues installing the borgeson box with TTi headers on my 528 RB HEMI. Any ideas or solutions?? Worst case I guess one would have to dent the headers slightly, but I am not too inclined to do that, although I saw a video that showed that it had no effect on performance. Would appreciate any useful feedback. Thx.
Pictures would help, but there's not a lot of room for options. No pun intended. Either the box can be adjusted to clear the headers or it will require modifications such as dimpling the tubes. No you won't lose performance as long as they are shallow, but banging on perfectly good headers is something I'd have an issue with. I'd have to find another way to mount the box.
Installing a custom platform between the box and the k-member for example. It would mean more modification to the steering shaft, but I believe you do that anyway with the Borgeson or are they plug and play these days?
Quote from: Dino on March 25, 2018, 09:15:46 AM
Quote from: charlie45 on March 25, 2018, 04:30:56 AM
My mechanic is having issues installing the borgeson box with TTi headers on my 528 RB HEMI. Any ideas or solutions?? Worst case I guess one would have to dent the headers slightly, but I am not too inclined to do that, although I saw a video that showed that it had no effect on performance. Would appreciate any useful feedback. Thx.
Pictures would help, but there's not a lot of room for options. No pun intended. Either the box can be adjusted to clear the headers or it will require modifications such as dimpling the tubes. No you won't lose performance as long as they are shallow, but banging on perfectly good headers is something I'd have an issue with. I'd have to find another way to mount the box.
Installing a custom platform between the box and the k-member for example. It would mean more modification to the steering shaft, but I believe you do that anyway with the Borgeson or are they plug and play these days?
Thanks for your feedback. Unfortunately I don't have any pictures at this point. I really don't know whether the box can be adjusted but from what I understand there isn't really much room for maneuvering. I'm not keen on the idea of dimpling the tubes but there doesn't appear to be much of an alternative. Any other thoughts or wisdom on the matter appreciated...
preserving header tubes < getting the steering box mounted right
If you move the mounting location of the steering box then it will also affect the steering geometry and potentially cause some major bump steer issues (worse than the factory ones). About the only option would be different headers, because if the Borgenson box is having clearance issues then there would be no hope of squeezing in a factory box. :shruggy: Sorry I wasn't much help. If it were mine, I would just bend the headers for clearance if you're sure that will work. I had to bend both of my TTI headers to make them fit and most people claim that they fit perfect. :Twocents:
I know tti's are expensive, but you gotta do what you gotta do. I vote to clearance them with the hammer of your choosing. It won't effect power any noticable amount and I'd value the steering box over dents in the headers
Quote from: charlie45 on March 25, 2018, 04:30:56 AM
My mechanic is having issues installing the borgeson box with TTi headers on my 528 RB HEMI. Any ideas or solutions?? Worst case I guess one would have to dent the headers slightly, but I am not too inclined to do that, although I saw a video that showed that it had no effect on performance. Would appreciate any useful feedback. Thx.
If headers have been going in with stock steering boxes for decades and the Borgeson is significantly smaller than the stock box, I don't understand how he has an issue. Is it tight, oh heck yea, but others have done it.
I think the best fitting way is either put the the headers in place and lower the engine to them, or bolt the whole shebang to the k frame and drop the body over the assembly
I'm running 1 7/8 TTi headers. My borgeson box wasn't even close to hitting my headers.