Edelbrock had a booth set up at the Van Senus show today. I spent a few minutes talking with the guys. They said an Edelbrock carb can make make up to 20 more horse than an equivalent Holley. Anyone know if that is true? They asked what problems I was having with the Holley. (It is a 750 double pumper on my mildly built 440). I told them it was leaking fuel and had a hesitation. They recommended an Edelbrock AVS #1813, 800 CFM . It has an electric choke with dual feed capability and adjustable vacuum secondaries. It has a nicer finish than the Holley does as well. They also said that fuel pressure going to it should be around 4 to 6 PSI. More than that can cause problems. They said that the fuel we get in the big cities is emissions formulated and is less dense. The float doesn't sit as high in the less dense fuel. Lower fuel pressures wont bleed by the needle and seat causing problems. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
If I change the carb I will need a new feed line, pressure regulator since my Holley Red fuel pump puts out more pressure than they recommend, and carb linkage. I am using the factory lines from the tank to the carb right now. Should I up size them or switch to braided hoses or something? I think I am going to start saving up for the switch over to an Edelbrock. What do you guys think?
INSTEAD a Holley will outflow eddie in most cases, and Holleys are rated (at least speed demon) to flow more cfm than rated
i like Edelbrock carbs. hassel free. my holleys always had problems with dumping. always needed to adjust something and carry a hammer with me. to bang the crap out of them. Rene
mmm well ive used em both. if the car gets weathered at all that nice finish is gonna look like ass in no time. it gets tarnished easily (my camaro not the charger dont worry) yes the eddy or carter is more a bolt on and go thing but holley makes more power if your willing to play with it. my holley cost me like 450 or so i forget. i kept messing with it and now it feels like a fuel injected car no bullshit, no bogs or hesitations anywhere whe just goes. i got a 800 eddy sittin in the box damn near brand new but i prefer the holley..............Mike
Anybody running a pro-form 830 annular on a strong 440? Ron, Neil... your gyus thoughts?
Cheers,
Duey
feels good now, won't last you'll have to mess with it in the futher. holleys are better for the drags but for street go with the Edelbrock. spray alittle wd40 on the carb the finish will last longer. Rene
I'm personally a Holley/Demon guy so I would say stick with your Holley. A lot of times your decision just comes down to personal preference.
Also, since Duey asked about the Pro-Form 830 annular, what are the advantages and disadvantages of a down leg booster carb compared to a annular booster carb and vice versa. Thanks guys!
Quote from: MoparYoungGun on July 24, 2005, 09:57:05 PM
I'm personally a Holley/Demon guy so I would say stick with your Holley. A lot of times your decision just
comes down to personal preference.
Also, since Duey asked about the Pro-Form 830 annular, what are the advantages and disadvantages of a down leg booster carb compared to a annular booster carb and vice versa. Thanks guys!
MYG, I was told that annular boosters are a bit better for cars with longer duration cams and where there is less vacuum at low engine RPMs. It is supposed to make the carb a bit more sensitive to whatever signal making its way to the carb. I'm running a .509 on 108 centers and there is not as much signal at the carb as when I was running the stock cam.
Cheers,
Duey
Ok, thanks Duey for clearing that up for me. It's much appreciated.
my experience has Always been the opposite in that Holley will make more power everytime
I have run the Proform carbs , they are extrememly responsive , a very nice carb for a few less $$
I have always had decent luck with Holleys. I like them more I guess cause I kinna know how to mess with them. Nothing real technical, but still some is better than none.
My 68 has an Edlebrock on it now and Chryco had to help me adjust that booger. :drive:
Quote from: Duey on July 24, 2005, 09:53:15 PM
Anybody running a pro-form 830 annular on a strong 440? Ron, Neil... your gyus thoughts?
Cheers,
Duey
Duey, i'm using the proform main body on mine but it has downleg boosters. Personally i like an annular booster carb, especially with a single plane intake manifold. The annular boosters will diminish the flow slightly due to the larger percentage of space they occupy in the venturi. Fuel atomization is better because of the 360* discharge from the booster. ;) and they work very well though. If i was starting from scratch, it would be an annular carb for sure. I had a brand new 750dp on mine installed by the previous owner so i just upgraded the mainbody.....and everything underneath it ! :devil:
Ron
I like them both. I have an Eddy on my car now because in the past whenever I've had a Holley, I seem to spend a lot of time tinkering with it. The AFB clone is pretty limited in what you can change and for me personally, on a street car, that's all good.
However, look under the hoods at the dragstrip or on top of the engines in the magazine dyno shootouts and what do you see nearly every time? A Holley.
Based on Ron and Neils advice I am going to be putting another Holley on the car soon, but I won't be getting rid of the Eddy just yet either.
Ill get back to you when I get my speed demon installed
Quote from: Silver R/T on July 25, 2005, 07:44:31 PM
Ill get back to you when I get my speed demon installed
I hope you have better luck than i did. The last two speed demons i worked on were horrible to tune....couldn't get them to idle : way too rich. >:( And fouled plugs very quickly while contaminating the oil with fuel. The floats were set correct and the power valve was sized properly for the application. And yes, i checked the power valve and it wasn't blown.
Ron
I have 2 eddys on my 440's because at the time I knew very little about adjusting carbs. As I learned, I'm at my limit with the eddys. The non adjustability on the eddy vs the Holley has now become a shortfall where as before it was an advantage. The Edelbrocks seem to be easier to tune and get running decent if you are a beginner. As you advance, I think a Holley would be a step up. ( compareable flowing carbs of course )
this is exactly why I use Holley carbs , the Eddys are very limiting in there tunability
i have a 750 edelbrock now,had a 750 holley but it was junk.i have used both and had good luck with both,the tuning is better on the holley,but it seems like youalways have to fool around with them,on a street car i am always going with the eldey,strip the holley,just my 2 cents
You guys have got me thinking about keeping the Holley and learning how to tune it. I am capable of learning I think. LOL. So this is going to lead to more threads.
IMHO Holley's rev a lot quicker then a eldenbrock. Holley's also are better performing. We had a 750 double pumper on our belvedere and it was running 8.10s n the 1/8th, but after having problems with it acting up and such we put an old eldenbrock on it and it runs 8.60's now. Eldenbrock are def the way to go if you don't know anything about carburetors and just want to put it on and go. Holley's make more power and are funner to drive IMHO, but are an absolute pain to get tuned right. Last year my duster was an absolute perfect girl, one crank and she fired up and she would idle as soon as she started, no matter how cold she was. Then we put a new bigger badder motor in and developed a stumble right at the hit of the throttle, we went up and down in jet and squirter sizes and everything. Well 99% of the stumble is gone and shes running consist now, but you have to let her run for a good 10 mins before she'll idle on her own anymore. But then I not an idling kinda guy, I like to the floor board.
Ron, Neil...looks like I goofed slightly, the 830 annulars I was looking at was actually a Holley 4150 HP, not the pro-form (850, downleg). I'll be doing some extra work in the near future and was thinking that the 4150 HP 830 annular is probably worth the extra 125-150 bucks over the Pro-form...although both of those carbs are pretty nice, I figure. I was looking into a Mighty Demon earlier, but I think I'll stick with the Holley (to mate up with my lovely sounding, old-school classic .509... :icon_smile_big:
Cheers
Duey
The 830 annular is what i'd be buying if i was building your combo. The low end response will be better than with a downleg booster...no question. I didn't realize proform was making an annular booster carb....i've just looked at their main bodies. When i do the 493 you can be your last doller that ther'll be an annular booster carb on it. I'm liking the 4150 style hp1050 annular for that combo ! :devil:
Ron
Quote from: firefighter3931 on July 25, 2005, 08:29:38 PM
Quote from: Silver R/T on July 25, 2005, 07:44:31 PM
Ill get back to you when I get my speed demon installed
I hope you have better luck than i did. The last two speed demons i worked on were horrible to tune....couldn't get them to idle : way too rich. >:( And fouled plugs very quickly while contaminating the oil with fuel. The floats were set correct and the power valve was sized properly for the application. And yes, i checked the power valve and it wasn't blown.
Ron
That sux. I was going to go with Demon but now I'm not sure anymore. Did you get part of a bad batch or something?
Whil;e Demons have some nice features I still like Holley better , often you nned to change air bleeds to get the Demons right
Quote from: firefighter3931 on July 27, 2005, 09:24:42 PM
The 830 annular is what i'd be buying if i was building your combo. The low end response will be better than with a downleg booster...no question. I didn't realize proform was making an annular booster carb....i've just looked at their main bodies. When i do the 493 you can be your last doller that ther'll be an annular booster carb on it. I'm liking the 4150 style hp1050 annular for that combo ! :devil:
Ron
Roger that Ron, as you know, I won't be able to work on the car now until next spring...but I figure I'll get the 4150 HP 830 annular and take the time to tune it when I whack the engine on Shawn's dyno. :icon_smile_big:
Duey
Quote from: Chryco Psycho on July 28, 2005, 02:31:11 AM
Whil;e Demons have some nice features I still like Holley better , often you nned to change air bleeds to get the Demons right
Bingo....from what i've seen they (Demon) are allways rich at idle and lean wide open....a tuning nightmare. Holley's usually have the fuel curve pretty close if the carb is properly sized for the combo.
Ron
Quote from: Duey on July 28, 2005, 08:23:04 PM
Roger that Ron, as you know, I won't be able to work on the car now until next spring...but I figure I'll get the 4150 HP 830 annular and take the time to tune it when I whack the engine on Shawn's dyno. :icon_smile_big:
Duey
:2thumbs: I'll be looking forward to that dyno session :devil:
Ron
I hope you have better luck than i did. The last two speed demons i worked on were horrible to tune....couldn't get them to idle : way too rich. >:( And fouled plugs very quickly while contaminating the oil with fuel. The floats were set correct and the power valve was sized properly for the application. And yes, i checked the power valve and it wasn't blown.
Ron
Quote
I tuned Mike's Speed Demon without much trouble at all. A strange thing I found with the carb, (right out of the box), was that the secondary plate was adjusted open a crack.. I didn't notice it before I put it on the intake and fired it up. I couldn't adjust it for shiP until I spotted the real problem.. I quick adjustment there and it was off to the races..
Then again I neglected to mention that Mike lives in Vegas and they are at 2300 feet above sea level.. Also they have very clean burning low smog gas out there..
QuoteAnybody running a pro-form 830 annular on a strong 440? Ron, Neil... your gyus thoughts?
I just bought a proform 750 body for my 3310 its downleg but fwiw in my opinon its alot better than my old holley body. Plus the proform bodies flow alot more air. The 750 body flows about 830. Very nice upgrade for any holley carb. Well it give me 25-50 hp as they claim ??? I doubt it but As chryco said the car feels more responsive and Im sure it did add a few ponies over my old body with the big choke tower with no choke.
Also for the guy considering the edelbrock (forgot who started this thread sorry) I wouldnt. It took me a while to get used to tuning a holley but its so much better. Once you got it figured out its simple. A double pumper is a bit harder than a vac secondary carb but keep at it and you'll find its much better when you got it figured out than a edlebrock you just bolt on out of the box.
QuoteAlso, since Duey asked about the Pro-Form 830 annular, what are the advantages and disadvantages of a down leg booster carb compared to a annular booster carb and vice versa. Thanks guys!
Get this months car craft. They go into detail on boosters ;)
A stupid question but, if the Demons are supposed to be such a great Holley improvement that Holley sued BG"s ass and icorporated a lot of his upgrades, why are you guys having so much trouble with them?
the Demons have a lot of nice features but you have to buy exactly the right Demon as they are very specifically tuned for manifold vacuum , often you need to adjust the bleed sizes to tune the Demons in exactly
Basically a race only piece then? Realistically of course.
Quote from: Ghoste on July 29, 2005, 12:37:40 AM
Basically a race only piece then?
...or a PITA street piece. :P
Ron
Which comes back to my reason for using an Eddycarter on the street. It has much less to do with whether or not I know anything about carbs and a whole lot to do with the PITA factor.