Recently a member here pointed out that my Superbird may have the wrong style bumper jack?
I started to look into this and have found my self with more questions than answers!
Ouestion #1
Did all 1970 model year Plymouth B Bodies built at Lynch Road have the same style "T" bumper jacks?
Question #2
Since all our Superbirds were built at Lynch Road did they all have the same style "T" bumper jacks?
Question #3
Did all 1970 model year Plymouth B Bodies built at the other plants have the same tubular style bumper jacks?
Question #4
Did all 1970 model year Plymouth B Bodies have gray jack hooks, bases and mechanisms?
Owners of original cars your input is needed with pictures if possible.
To start this off my first picture shows the end of one of the "T" masts and it looks more like a "Y" to me?
My second picture is of what I think our jack bases should look like.
My 3rd and 4th pictures are of what I think all the jack hooks look like.
This is the only item that has a part number stamped into it 2931 103 with 10961 under it.
Thanks! MJ
Every original jack hook that I have seen on an original Superbird has had the small text.
I have yet to see a tube post on an original Superbird.
I have never quite understood why the asking prices on 1970 RR/Satellite/Belvederes hooks are so high. After all they were on every RR/Satellite/Belvedere. It is a one year only item, but most every jack hook is a 1 year only item. I believe Tony's repro jack hooks have the large lettering.
It would be nice if someone could show the original Superbird Tire Iron dimensions and angle on this thread. Some of us have a number of Tire Irons and it would be nice to have the right one in the Superbird Trunk.
Redbird,
Thanks for your reply!
This is exactly what I'm getting at!
I took for granted that ALL the hooks were the same and now there is LARGE and small text!
Any one with a LARGE text hook to show the difference?
Thanks! MJ
Every hook I have had or seen including mine has/had small text.It was the same jack assembly for the base model,would see no reason to differentiate for a bird.Everything in my car is what it came with,if I get a chance I'll measure the tire iron.
Large and small fonts
chaaargerb,
Do you know what vehicle the LARGE font BLACK jack hook is from?
Thanks! MJ
QuoteLarge and small fonts
Great comparison!
See the 5 digit numbers under the part numbers?
Those are the vendor codes, so these were supplied to Chrysler by at least two different vendors.
Sorry John, I don't have a clue as to where I got from. It does look to be originally black and from what I can tell they look identical other then the stamping.
Quote from: Alaskan_TA on September 16, 2018, 10:50:14 AM
QuoteLarge and small fonts
Great comparison!
See the 5 digit numbers under the part numbers?
Those are the vendor codes, so these were supplied to Chrysler by at least two different vendors.
Alaskan_TA,
This is why I'm asking if there are more than one jack?
I thought Chrysler had 2 suppliers whenever possible?
Could there have been a different jack in a Superbird from Lynch road?
Could it be a tubular mast? Could the base, hook and mechanism be painted black?
Thanks! MJ
I have seen 3 different vendors for 26" 974 radiators so far (AAR, T/A & 1970 B-body applications with 318 & AC)
Even then, there are variations.
So will we ever figure this all out? I hope so..........
The Superbird just posted abut here vin# RM23UOA171606 looks to have a tubular jack mast?
Maybe someone can get a closer look?
MJ
Mine has the T style.
First three pictures is the same that I have in my car. I have always seen that type of Jack in a Superbird
Thanks for the replies!
Now it's time to dig deeper into this!
I have contacted Nick of Nick's garage to see if I could use his pictures.
He gave me permission so I have attached 2 pictures of what has been on his site for years.
These pictures are of a correct jack for LYNCH ROAD built 1970 Plymouth B Bodies.
The example also has a date code of 9 L or November 1969!
This is significant as this is the month Superbirds were being built!
I want you to pay close attention to the angle leading up to the hook receiver.
There is a oval depression that I assume is for strength on both sides.
Take a look at your Superbird jack mechanisms and see if they have them?
Thanks! MJ
Quote from: chaaargerb on September 15, 2018, 04:57:45 PM
Large and small fonts
So would one deduct, of the apparent different vendors used for the hooks, one used a small font while the other was large?
QuoteThese pictures are of a correct jack for LYNCH ROAD built 1970 Plymouth B Bodies.
All of them?
Proof will be needed. ;)
Quote from: Birdflu on September 17, 2018, 05:39:47 PM
Quote from: chaaargerb on September 15, 2018, 04:57:45 PM
Large and small fonts
So would one deduct, of the apparent different vendors used for the hooks, one used a small font while the other was large?
Also the large font vendor had some black hooks and some gray hooks!
MJ
Nicks Garage is a very good general site for Mopar items.
For actual Superbird parts I would tend to look at Superbird survivor cars. The 17 mile car and others like it.
Freshly restored cars on e-bay tend not to be reliable restoration detail sources.
48 years later a lot of cars have replacement jacks in the trunk.
November '69 jack parts, could be, but do you believe they were delivering new jack parts the day the cars were made? I will fully admit to being away from my cars for a few days, so I can not look in my trunks and the dates on the posts.
Personally, I would be looking for a small font grey hook and not a tube post. :Twocents:
Quote from: Mopar John on September 17, 2018, 02:58:16 PM
These pictures are of a correct jack for LYNCH ROAD built 1970 Plymouth B Bodies.
The example also has a date code of 9 L or November 1969!
This is significant as this is the month Superbirds were being built!
It's my understanding that "ALL" of the 'Birds were not built on Nov. 30th....that was just the date to please NASCAR.....I have heard that some were built before, and some were built after the "B30" Date.....
I'm sure someone will chime in here and correct me if I'm wrong with my above statement
Bryan
Quote from: Redbird on September 17, 2018, 07:49:13 PM
Nicks Garage is a very good general site for Mopar items.
For actual Superbird parts I would tend to look at Superbird survivor cars. The 17 mile car and others like it.
Freshly restored cars on e-bay tend not to be reliable restoration detail sources.
48 years later a lot of cars have replacement jacks in the trunk.
November '69 jack parts, could be, but do you believe they were delivering new jack parts the day the cars were made? I will fully admit to being away from my cars for a few days, so I can not look in my trunks and the dates on the posts.
Personally, I would be looking for a small font grey hook and not a tube post. :Twocents:
I would have to agree with low mileage Superbird survivors for the best answers. I have worked in an assembly line situation (not automotive) but there were many times when we would run out of parts on the line. These cars were built over a 3 or 4 mouth span so anything could have happened. A jack sure wouldn't hold up production. Were the jacks installed after the cars were converted or before? Did a dealer pull a jack out of a unsellable superbird and put it in a satellite that was missing one or vise a versa? Who really knows. From what I have been able to research it looks like the small font hook and the T bar jack are the most common. Still no idea of what tire iron would have been in there.
Here's a pic of the jack assembly from the B5 4spd car on ebay right now. Supposedly a 27K mile car purchased from the original owner in 1978. It appears to confirm the concensus on a 'T' type mast with a grey hook, base AND mechanism! :2thumbs:
No tire iron in the picture! The one thing I was looking to see! :brickwall:
Quote from: Birdflu on September 18, 2018, 08:28:20 AM
Here's a pic of the jack assembly from the B5 4spd car on ebay right now. Supposedly a 27K mile car purchased from the original owner in 1978. It appears to confirm the concensus on a 'T' type mast with a grey hook, base AND mechanism! :2thumbs:
Gary,
Thanks for posting the picture of the Superbird jack assembly!
The jack mechanism also has the oval depression for strength stamped into it along the angled edge!
I have contacted the seller and asked if he would flip it over and tell me the date code stamped into it?
I also asked if he would confirm the part number on the jack hook?
MJ
My jack post has a hole in the side about 1 1/2 from the top. The pic from Nick's garage doesn't have that hole. WINGNUT
Quote from: Wingnut426 on September 18, 2018, 11:56:28 AM
My jack post has a hole in the side about 1 1/2 from the top. The pic from Nick's garage doesn't have that hole. E-mail me if you want a pic, I can't figure out how to resize them. WINGNUT
send it to me stuartspeedway@hotmail.com ill post it for you
Quote from: Wingnut426 on September 18, 2018, 11:56:28 AM
My jack post has a hole in the side about 1 1/2 from the top. The pic from Nick's garage doesn't have that hole. WINGNUT
Here is the picture I got from Pete showing a hole drilled into the end of the mast.
On the jacks that I have here the hole is drilled on the same side as the lever for up and down on the mechanism.
So if it's laying on the non lever side you don't see the hole.
Thanks pete for sharing!
MJ
I got it also , you beat me to it
I'll get a pic of mine and post as well.
Quote from: maxwellwedge on September 19, 2018, 09:36:05 AM
I'll get a pic of mine and post as well.
Jim,
Your PM inbox is full.
When you take the pictures of your Superbird jack could you get a nice one of each side of the mechanism.
I'd like to see the date code, "UP" and "DOWN" and all the other details stamped into it.
Thanks! John
Here are two pictures of my "T" mast bumper jack.
The first is the non lever side and you don't see the hole that's drilled.
The second picture with it flipped and you see the hole.
So in some of previous pictures like the one off Nick's site there could be a hole drilled in the mast.
Thanks! MJ
Quote from: Mopar John on September 19, 2018, 11:43:24 AM
Quote from: maxwellwedge on September 19, 2018, 09:36:05 AM
I'll get a pic of mine and post as well.
Jim,
Your PM inbox is full.
When you take the pictures of your Superbird jack could you get a nice one of each side of the mechanism.
I'd like to see the date code, "UP" and "DOWN" and all the other details stamped into it.
Thanks! John
Sure, no problem. I'll do that over the weekend John
I did find these pics ...for now....
This is what was in mine. Long jack hook with U71 stamped under. Jack has a 0M stamp on the rivet. Different base and it's not a T style. Mine might not be original to it? Not sure.
Pics won't upload. if someone can upload them for me I'd appreciate it.
Quote from: maxwellwedge on September 20, 2018, 10:47:42 AM
Quote from: Mopar John on September 19, 2018, 11:43:24 AM
Quote from: maxwellwedge on September 19, 2018, 09:36:05 AM
I'll get a pic of mine and post as well.
Jim,
Your PM inbox is full.
When you take the pictures of your Superbird jack could you get a nice one of each side of the mechanism.
I'd like to see the date code, "UP" and "DOWN" and all the other details stamped into it.
Thanks! John
Sure, no problem. I'll do that over the weekend John
I did find these pics ...for now....
John,I see one thing that may be incorrect or maybe mine is wrong but it came from the original owner. :scratchchin:
Quote from: Luis9995 on September 20, 2018, 05:37:39 PM
This is what was in mine. Long jack hook with U71 stamped under. Jack has a 0M stamp on the rivet. Different base and it’s not a T style. Mine might not be original to it? Not sure.
Pics won’t upload. if someone can upload them for me I’d appreciate it.
Luis9995,
I sent you a pm on your pictures.
MJ
Quote from: 62 Max on September 20, 2018, 06:36:40 PM
Quote from: maxwellwedge on September 20, 2018, 10:47:42 AM
Quote from: Mopar John on September 19, 2018, 11:43:24 AM
Quote from: maxwellwedge on September 19, 2018, 09:36:05 AM
I'll get a pic of mine and post as well.
Jim,
Your PM inbox is full.
When you take the pictures of your Superbird jack could you get a nice one of each side of the mechanism.
I'd like to see the date code, "UP" and "DOWN" and all the other details stamped into it.
Thanks! John
Sure, no problem. I'll do that over the weekend John
I did find these pics ...for now....
John,I see one thing that may be incorrect or maybe mine is wrong but it came from the original owner. :scratchchin:
The wing nut VS the nut on the scissors jack hold down plate?
Mine has the wing nut.
Anyone else on this one?
Thanks! MJ
A wing nut is correct. Some people put a regular nut on tight so no one can steal their jacks at a show. And yes, it has happened. :Twocents: WINGNUT
is the length of the post confirmed & consistent?
Quote from: Luis9995 on September 20, 2018, 05:37:39 PM
This is what was in mine. Long jack hook with U71 stamped under. Jack has a 0M stamp on the rivet. Different base and it’s not a T style. Mine might not be original to it? Not sure.
Pics won’t upload. if someone can upload them for me I’d appreciate it.
Luis9995,
Here are the pictures of your jack you sent me.
Your date code of 0 M on the rivet works out to be December 1970 which is a year after your Superbird was built.
So I think this jack was a replacement sometime later.
MJ
Thanks mopar John. I think I have a 70 roadrunner one out back and the correct base for it.I know I don't have the hook. I'll probably swap them out so it has the correct jack
Quote from: 6bblgt on September 21, 2018, 12:03:49 AM
is the length of the post confirmed & consistent?
Dan,
We are not consistent on the jack yet let alone the length!
From the ones that I think are right it should be 36 5/8" end to end.
MJ
Sorry John - I meant to take pics and measurements this past weekend. I will do it this week for sure.
Quote from: maxwellwedge on September 24, 2018, 08:08:50 AM
Sorry John - I meant to take pics and measurements this past weekend. I will do it this week for sure.
Thanks Jim!
In the meantime a member has sent me pictures of what he thinks is the proper storage
positions of the scissors jack, jack handle and hold down plate with wing nut.
MJ
SUPERBIRD JACK BASE?
Other than the hook with the part number 2931 103 stamped into it I think the base will be the next item we can agree on?
In my first picture I show my 4 "T" or "Y" mast bases and I think they are identical except for the conditions and colors.
The one in my second picture on the left is a Chevrolet jack base!
The two in the middle shown in my third picture are Mopar jack bases!
Last is my favorite on the right shown in my last picture.
It is a Ford jack base that I bought NOS for $27.99! WOW!
The Mopar junk jack bases are all the way up to $99.00!!
If you look close they all have the same slots and holes along with a A-B stamped into them.
The big hole stamped into the right side is for other makes that use a wheel stud hole in the rim for the hold down stud.
So with the base used on all these differant applications they are EASY to find!
We still need original owners/Superbirds jack pictures.
Thanks! MJ
Hi John.
Ok - finally was able to take pics.
The jack length is 34-1/4" long.
The date is 9 E.....May, '69
Note the hole in the shaft - probably to hang the shaft for painting.
I have included some other pics for general layout.
More...
Quote from: maxwellwedge on October 01, 2018, 09:46:35 AM
Hi John.
Ok - finally was able to take pics.
The jack length is 34-1/4" long.
The date is 9 E.....May, '69
Note the hole in the shaft - probably to hang the shaft for painting.
I have included some other pics for general layout.
Jim,
Thanks for all the pictures of your Superbird jack!
Your pictures help confirm the following:
1) The Superbird uses a "T" or "Y" type mast.
2) The Superbird uses a 2931 103 small font jack hook with vendor number 10961
3) The Superbird uses the A-B base with the extra hole on the right side for other applications
Your pictures also bring up issues for discussion:
1) The length of the Superbird jack mast has been reported as 36 5/8" and now 34 1/4"
2) There are at least 3 styles of mechanisms in play in the summer/fall 1969!
This is why I started this post to begin with!
My first picture shows my stack of "T" or "Y" post jacks I have gotten.
They range in length from 34 1/4" to 36 5/8".
My second picture shows this differance in length and they all have the hole drilled in them near the end.
My third picture shows the 34 1/4" jack mechanism and the 36 5/8" jack mechanism.
Both Jims 9 E and my 9 J ( gray one on left ) have the shorter oval depressions and have masts 34 1/4" long.
The picture of the jack from Nicks Garage 9 L and my 9 L ( black one on right ) have the longer oval depressions and have masts 36 5/8" long.
So what I am wondering is at some point was there a revision in the jack from the manufacturer?
My last picture shows yet another "T" or "Y" type mast with a mechanism that has NO oval depression dated 9 K?
So we need more owners of original Superbirds to check the jack parts to hopefully clear this up or not?
Thanks! MJ
What is the total measurement of the scissor jack handle open and closed for the wing cars :shruggy:
Quote from: billssuperbird on October 09, 2018, 05:52:17 AM
What is the total measurement of the scissor jack handle open and closed for the wing cars :shruggy:
Bill,
The Superbird jack handle is 31" overall folded up.
The handle when opened up is 54 1/2".
MJ
I have had a long time Superbird owner contact me about his bumper jack.
It is a "T" or "Y" mast as I call it that is about 34 3/4" long by running a tape under the spare.
The date code of the jack is a 9 J or September 1969.
So from the two early date coded jacks I'm seeing a shorter 34 1/4 - 34 3/4 " length.
We need more data and jacks to be measured so when your out working on your Superbirds
take a minute and help us out.
Thanks! MJ
John,my jack is original to the car,T style,mast is exactly 33 1/2" with small hole on the end,no date code,just A stamped below handle insert. Hook is 2931 103,vendor 10961,base stamped A-B.
Quote from: 62 Max on October 11, 2018, 04:43:00 PM
John,my jack is original to the car,T style,mast is exactly 33 1/2" with small hole on the end,no date code,just A stamped below handle insert. Hook is 2931 103,vendor 10961,base stamped A-B.
I am beginning to wonder if they cut the masts at random lengths of a longer piece?
Thanks for your measurements and details!
MJ
Doing research prior to making my repro jacks i gathered the following info on T-type jack lengths:
67-9 Cuda Jack Mast Length 33-1/2"
68-70 Charger Jack Mast Length 36" (2 Checked out at 36")
My unrestored Superbird 34-3/4"
an original 70 Challenger 34-5/8"
so from what ive found, the length wasn't a consistent
Quote from: TONY on October 12, 2018, 08:50:29 AM
Doing research prior to making my repro jacks i gathered the following info on T-type jack lengths:
67-9 Cuda Jack Mast Length 33-1/2”
68-70 Charger Jack Mast Length 36” (2 Checked out at 36”)
My unrestored Superbird 34-3/4”
an original 70 Challenger 34-5/8”
so from what ive found, the length wasn't a consistent
Tony,
Thanks for taking the time to post your information on bumper jacks!
With your unrestored Superbird we have 33 1/2", 34 1/4", 34 3/4" and 34 3/4" on mast length so far.
MJ
Thank you for the scissor Jack handle measurements
Superbird Bumper Jack Conclusions!
Over the past couple of weeks I have reached out to friends who own original Superbirds to find out information on the bumper jacks.
I also made a trip to Troy Angelly's shop who has 2 Superbirds there and contacted another shop that has 2 more Superbirds there.
Here are my conclusions based on what I think are original Superbird bumper jacks:
1) All of the original jacks are of the "T" or "Y" mast type and none have been the tubular type!
So far we have one reported at 33 1/2" long but the majority are 34 1/2" +or- 1/4" and one at 36 5/8" that I suspect may be a C body mast?
2) All of the original jacks have gray painted A-B bases with the extra hole drilled at the 4:30 position for other applications.
3) All of the original jacks have gray painted hooks with part number 2931 103 stamped into them and the vendor code 10961 stamped into them using the "small" font.
4) all of the original jacks have gray painted mechanism's with the oval strengthing depression running along the hook angle.
So far we have found one mechanism as early as 9 E or May 1969 along with a couple of 9 J September, several 9 K October and a couple of 9 L November with none 9 M December.
For those of you now looking for a correct jack for your Superbird as of 11/6/18 there is one listed on the Detroit Craigslist site under Mopar for $500.00!
Thanks for all the help on this!
MJ
I don't even own a Bird, but I'm all jacked up about this thread.
Good info. Always great to get the facts out there.
Quote from: odcics2 on November 07, 2018, 12:20:32 PM
I don't even own a Bird, but I'm all jacked up about this thread.
:rofl:
Quote from: odcics2 on November 07, 2018, 12:20:32 PM
I don't even own a Bird, but I'm all jacked up about this thread.
Good info. Always great to get the facts out there.
I can fix you right up !! :icon_smile_big:
SUPERBIRD TIRE IRONS!
I have been asking our member graybo about details on his LOW milage and original Superbird items.
Here is what we know about his bumper jack:
It has an A-B base painted gray
It has a 34 9/16 long mast
The jack mechanism is painted gray and the date code is 9L or November 1969!
The hook is part number 2931 103 with vendor code 10961 and small font and painted gray
Now onto the tire iron!
My first picture is of the graybo tire iron measured the simple way that I asked and measures right at 17 1/2"
I didn't want to get into angles corners and all that.
The second picture is of another Superbird tire iron that measures just under 18"
The third picture is of the socket size for original assembly line lug nuts.
So when your checking your tire irons find a 3/4" headed bolt and see if it fits?
The last picture is of some assembly line NOS lug nuts.
I dug these out to measure the size for the tire irons.
If you notice in the picture these are not as nice as the reproductions.
The center of the face have all differant types of shapes.
The lug nuts are not perfect castings and there are lines down the sides of most!
MJ
Size matters! I measured my tire iron and it is 19" and it has the same bend as Graybo's. I was going to swap to the 69 style, which measures 22 1/4, but I think I'll leave it as is. :Twocents: WINGNUT
mannn... you guys dont know jack s***.. LOLOLOL Just messing. :)
here is one matches your description. going for sale in parts section.
base
I see you sold the jack, I sent you an email about 4 minutes after you posted it with no reply. Guess i was too slow... :scratchchin: EDIT... HA.. sold to me :yesnod: Thanks!
Recently someone contacted me about the bolt for the spare tire hold down stud.
So I thought I would attach a couple of pictures here since it's a jack related item.
The correct bolt is a "H" headed black phosphate bolt with a black phosphate nut-washer.
MJ
Superbird Jack Update!
About a year after posting about Superbird bumper jacks we made a trip down to Troy Angelly's shop.
We picked up our correct Superbird bumper jack parts all restored and ready to install.
I will share the details soon over on my Superbird restoration post!
MJ
Those are beautiful! :drool5: